EPTSons of Starcraft. UPDATED Oct 9/14 - Page 48
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VKCA
Canada391 Posts
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Mitchlew
Australia428 Posts
Great documentary. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
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Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
On December 02 2013 12:03 Mitchlew wrote: Liked part 2 and 3. I feel like im being a dick here but I can't stop looking at artosis's hairline whenever hes on, think he needs to embrace his baldness and go on the path on Khaldor. Great documentary. I fail to see what your talking about, there is nothing wrong with his hairline, infact its really good. Unless you mean Idra? | ||
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Ctesias
4595 Posts
Will there be four parts in total? | ||
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Grettin
42414 Posts
On December 04 2013 22:53 Ctesias wrote: This documentary is getting better each episode. Part 3 focusing on Artosis was great. Will there be four parts in total? Four parts, yes. Getting certainly better each episode. Episode 3 was great! I really hope the final part will be a longer one. Btw, those who are interested in the videos and content Artosis made, check this out! (although, i feel like some of the older videos have disappeared) http://www.youtube.com/user/SCForAll/videos | ||
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HelloSon
United States456 Posts
Some juicy tidbits: As the project missed deadlines, the team spent thousands of dollars on hiring a post-production rescue crew to ensure the film could finally be released in 2013. The number of editors and sound technicians, for instance, went up three-fold from the original plan, according to a high-level source who worked on the film, but declined to speak on-the-record for this article. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
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Meerel
Germany713 Posts
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Names
Canada328 Posts
On December 07 2013 09:08 Meerel wrote: for what do oyu need post production, sound and editor guys......just do it yourself where is the problem what.... | ||
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
there are a total of five interviews: artosis, tasteless, hwanni, grr, and way too much of jason lee at a bar - who still has an unknown connection to tastosis and almost zero relevance in the scene. sound guys? loop the same three songs over at random intervals (seriously, listen for it.) i call bullshit on alejos. this whole project has been an amateurish disappointment considering the amount of financial backing he received from us. the vast majority of footage used outside of sit down interviews has been stuff taken from GOM and scforall. all of the interviews are conducted in a single afternoon that could've taken no longer than a month to accomplish. artosis had a child for christ sake, yet his segment mentions nothing of this amazing, life changing fact that would do well to humanize this stinking pile of shit. failure on all levels. | ||
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N.geNuity
United States5112 Posts
On December 02 2013 09:34 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Interesting episode. Artosis went really far down before SC2 came out, his dedication is amazing. Also best part is: + Show Spoiler + Hwanni's reaction to Artosis trying to be a SC2 pro + Show Spoiler + I thought that was the worst thing about the episode, not because of the reaction necessarily, but like it fits shittily into whatever this documentary is trying to tell a story about. tl;dr part coming up--didn't part 1 and part 3 largely ignore Artosis's player aspirations, telling the story of how they became commentators, etc, then just flips things 180 and ends on one of the two main characters in the documentary with the tone that his current job is not at all what he ever fucking wanted to do but he wanted to be the best player? That seems like a shitty story telling to me, but I know I am overly critical. Episode one some schizophrenically connected piece that ties together various quotes (tastless: something like video games are my life/part of identity, artosis some quote about I just want to describe to people how beautiful the starcraft franchise is, blah blah blah) Episode three (Artosis focus) talks about artosis going to produce sc content for behind the scenes, getting some journalistic vibes, a little commentary, alright cool that's telling the story of the documentary -> "jk dream is to be the best player" "lol he's dumb he won't be the best player he needs to give that up" "kkk playing beta" END EPISODE (also, hwanni says "you can't beat Boxer" as if some wide release on netflix will have people know who the fuck boxer is) I don't know what this documentary is trying to do. Most fans of the starcraft scene will know the stories behind tasteless and artosis, and of course know artosis's goals as a player for many years, so it is tough for the community to critique things critically since they know what the story already is and may not be as impressed as someone learning about such things for the first time. But the entire episode was neglecting artosis's player aspirations and then randomly throws that in at the end in a rather "unprofessional" tone--i.e. it turns from a storytelling interview tone to a "yeah we were just talking with hwanni and we started joking around but let's just put that into the doc too" Like 90% of the documentaries content seems to be from like 5 interviews total (and as people already mentioned, a random Daniel Lee interview in a bar where people don't get told in the documentary who the hell he is, a random interview with a college friend of tasteless from the tastless parts) that doesn't have any clear vision or keeps changing what the story being told is. | ||
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enord
France258 Posts
to whomever would read this, i am a video editor and have played starcraft since it came out. + Show Spoiler + actually i started on orcs vs humans i heard of "sos" well after the kickstarter ended and have watched countless documentaries .. about many things, and notably the "gaming phenomenon" my point with this preamble is that most of the ones about esports are not that good and are counter productive or shameless ads, .. others like the "smash brothers" however are awesome (and i don't even like that game) and change the way gaming is perceived (in a good way) worldwide and transcending age or creed. tldr: i am invested in this subject matter. i'm not out to do anyone any harm, however.. please allow me a second of your time / attention to consider my point of view: objective vs reasonable expectation i understand all the "expectations are too high" "nothing could ever please such an eager crowd" "this is just an amateur" "making a good documentary is hard", "the subject matter is so subjective" "it is not that bad" (+ Show Spoiler + this is a quote from this very thread, actually typed as something positive supporting "sos" which probably made me type this lengthy post arguments .. but.. there are still such things as an"objective vs result" end result and "lines you do not cross". actual work this type of thing is actual work and the creator being a "close friend" of the "subject matter" can actually be detrimental to the work itself (yes that seems counter intuitive i know, but be a dear and look it up before you reject the idea). making people talk about stuff is not an easy thing (some go as far as saying it is a talent in itself not something you can teach/learn/get any good at by mileage), making people tell insightful/relevant stuff "on camera" is even harder, and making them do it in front of a camera with an editable content to show for it at the end (even after a lot of legitimate efforts) is NEVER a given (however much time or money you throw at it) .. .. but this is a primordial prerequisite .. if the "interviewed" are just rehashing stuff then that it is just what it sounds like in the end product (ergo the WAY they say stuff is almost as important as what they are actually saying and what questions they are answering / topics they are sent on to, the extent to which the interviewed are "plucked" are going to heavily shape it ). cost and getting your money's worth it is all relative, 40 k is not much to make a high end documentary and nothing comes cheap these days (travel and costs alone for 2 years for example is quite higher than people think (some people in this thread may need many reality checks) .. on the other hand, i'd sue if i'd payed 40 k for this result.. (and i'd win even if i didn't get any money back, because this is far from what any professional would call "professionally produced content")... yes this was enough to do the job no, the result showcases that money helps not one bit in the end and that discussing monetary issue is besides the point the dude may have been legit and not wasted a dime nor kept any for himself and still spent it all with no result to show for it, the result is the only thing that matters (the cost is discussed if it is good, useless to discuss if it is bad) content from here on i will spoiler .. because i am well raised.. and want to avoid anyone any useless bad dreams but i was deeply troubled by this and it shows..so just consider you have been warned + Show Spoiler + the title is a lie, but while my post stems from this i will have to take things in order lets disregard the teaser because i hate marketing.. lets just all agree that when anyone's disappointed in anything, the marketing prior to the disappointment comes as extra poison on top part 1 was so lame it stemmed "hate" on a thread on tl.. enough to make chill's post seem like failed crowd control ..enough said i'd wager.. (there was no sc, no sc to sc2 etc.. i want to shoot myself in the foot for even looking at it till the end because i was hoping it would pick up or be twice as long and go somewhere.. hoping that this was me being condescending or mean...) .. so i won't even go into it in part 2 and 3, we get no feeling, no emotion .. out of either of the "sons" and while i could put it all on the "friend zone" factor (which wouldn't make it better but at least would not have stemmed any post from me), i feel it is obvious that it is an absence of depth/commitment from the interviewer(s?) that spawned such a poor result .. no hard questions were asked, no real questions even.. the "sons" are left out to "tell their tale".. journalism nowhere to be seen... but worse than that + Show Spoiler + this is debatable i know, but that is my point of view ..worse is that no starcraft is showcased, "sc is hard" "sc is awesome" what the f..? this issue is the core of anything worth anything .. it needs more than people saying it for any effect or affect to take place in any respectable viewer.. no sc esports community is showcased (explained/detailed whatever you want to call it), no history is being told, no objective felt (documentary objective), no theme developed.. again, no empathy spawned from real work from the creator this is not even a "bad" artosis blog video, and yes i've watched them .. these were awesome unprofessional content, a gloriously "dudeske" first insight into the korean scene paving the way for what is here today.. artosis learning how to do while doing it .. knowing full well that he's not good at it when he starts it out but that it is relevant and IMPORTANT to do it anyway, .. those videos are worth even more now for people who understand the concept of "history" and the importance of doing things even when you don't know how to do them well .. but this is not what a "documentary" is or should ever be (not to mention this was dan's life and livelihood and we are 10 years after and this was funded and had a very different goal) result the esports scene/community is not helped by these 3 videos .. starcraft is nowhere to be seen in it.. so .. it is not something to show your parents or your "game hating" friends or loved ones, it is not something to show a prospective client... just to be clear, this is a guy making a video.. AND, AS SUCH, IT IS NOT BAD.. my grudge lies elsewhere anyone claiming this is a documentary is deluding himself and should be convinced not to link it or reference it as something that will explain gaming to anyone that is rooting against it or that could invest in it "objective vs result" end result : the objective was (or so i thought) all in the tittle : sons of starcraft i am one of those sons and i was appalled with this result, the joy that spawned from hope at reading those three words in that order now feels like .. no! .. for once i'l refrain from finishing a sentence lines you do not cross: this should not be called a documentary, it is insulting real documentaries and the passion that transpires translates to viewers that watch documentaries.. i am 40 this year and have seen all my friends go from gamer casuals to becoming closer and closer to closeted gamers or worse, like my parents (who even though were not full out retard against video games, were heavily invested in making me find "better outlets for my time" (needless to say i feel blessed for their "disengagement" because i know of many worse situations than mine) gaming is still on a dicey road and this is not helping when you watch eg "rising hero"ad (ergo esports is just like any other product alex garfield awful killing esports one gamer at a time) or others .. you have to ask yourself (or at least i am asking myself) who will do this documentary about starcraft? who will rise above the herd to pave the way? the title is a lie and it wounds me i am an editor and interviewer, i struggle my ass off to write and re write in depth questions to go further and further into subject matter so as to get people interviewed to react, to go beyond, confound expectations, to (dare i say it) "be" .. and this "tasteless and artosis first sit down" pours salt on the wound this goal, this objective .. so reachable in my point of view + Show Spoiler + the smash brothers documentary is proof if anyone needs it that it can be done ; not anyone can do it, maybe i couldn't do it either if i tried, but there is no doubt it can be done with starcraft last but not least, capitalism is already setting up to eat gaming culture and while gaming spawned out of fun, serious people steering the way are lacking .. and believe me, there is nothing more serious than having fun sorry, but as i've said .. i care about this so i had to say my piece thank you for your time i'm so disappointed, this had so much potential tldr / eulogy: someday there will be a documentary rightfully called "sons of starcraft" that will give genuine hope to generations of gamers to come and bring tears out of gamers of old' .. i know there will be one (this isn't it) ps: will watch part 4 and doubt i'll post about it ; however.. hope springs eternal | ||
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
On December 09 2013 10:43 enord wrote: cost and getting your money's worth it is all relative, 40 k is not much to make a high end documentary and nothing comes cheap these days (travel and costs alone for 2 years for example is quite higher than people think (some people in this thread may need many reality checks) .. on the other hand, i'd sue if i'd payed 40 k for this result.. (and i'd win even if i didn't get any money back, because this is far from what any professional would call "professionally produced content")... yes this was enough to do the job no, the result showcases that money helps not one bit in the end and that discussing monetary issue is besides the point the dude may have been legit and not wasted a dime nor kept any for himself and still spent it all with no result to show for it, the result is the only thing that matters (the cost is discussed if it is good, useless to discuss if it is bad) i do not think that people dispute that $42k (being generous, he actually received a lot more) is not a lot to live on for two years. however it is painfully apparent that all of the interview content, essentially 90% of the doc, was created in single instances of each person's apartment. alejos did not even bother to create any type of narrative or storyline, so following tastosis for two years was not a necessary expense since there is plenty of archived material on youtube and gomtv to use instead, which is essentially what he did as it comprises the rest of the doc. it could've been great if he had used his time to actually follow tastosis and tell a story that delivers more intimate content like we expected, but instead we wound up with this big circle jerk about a game that is apparently really, really hard. | ||
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Philozovic
France1677 Posts
I've seen Smash brother and King of kongs both were more than great, not so much because of the gaming part but because It shows people trying to fit in somewhere thanks to something that trully matters to them. I could watch dots contest documentary If it was as good as thoose. Edit : smash brother not sos god | ||
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Hoender
South Africa382 Posts
On December 09 2013 18:52 Philozovic wrote: Do you have any great documentary to watch enord ? I've seen SoS and King of kongs both were more than great, not so much because of the gaming part but because It shows people trying to fit in somewhere thanks to something that trully matters to them. I could watch dots contest documentary If it was as good as thoose. You could give the National Geographic special on the World Cyber Games 2005 a go. It's not SC2 (it focusses on Xellos and his BW WCG run), but it gives a nice perspective on life in a gaming house (or how it was atleast). | ||
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UmberBane
Germany5450 Posts
On December 09 2013 18:45 Terranist wrote: but instead we wound up with this big circle jerk about a game that is apparently really, really hard. And they never actually tell us which game that is.  There's just always this ambiguous term of "Starcraft" being thrown around. | ||
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enord
France258 Posts
still not the link to part 4, just answering a query from Philozovic + Show Spoiler + (Do you have any great documentary to watch enord ?) euhhh, i would never advertise  a quick surf on the internet has yet to unearth any good in depth documentary on starcraft and where this game takes its place in gaming culture .. in life .. and i must admit that i think it mostly stems from our community's pride and elitism there are many awesome documentaries, and some are about subjects in need of being documented, i wouldn't know where to start although it looks like a joke answer i'll link this first as an example, mostly because it is "accessible" on the internet (it is interesting, no nudity is involved, its content is guaranteed to make you think and want to argue it over with other people) : understanding sex + Show Spoiler + (disclaimer: there is no reason to agree with every bit of what you see/hear in an end product to find it interesting, "good" or well produced) rules on labeling something "documentary" are like any rules, some can be bent .. others are meant to be broken ... so here's the best documentary i have ever seen (arguably not a documentary) : koyaanisqatsi + Show Spoiler + vidi well and again, sorry for off topicness edit: spoilered | ||
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arie3000
153 Posts
On December 09 2013 18:52 Philozovic wrote: Do you have any great documentary to watch enord ? I've seen Smash brother and King of kongs both were more than great, not so much because of the gaming part but because It shows people trying to fit in somewhere thanks to something that trully matters to them. I could watch dots contest documentary If it was as good as thoose. Edit : smash brother not sos god I'm not enord, but I can recommend watching the WCG 2005 'doc', which is amazing. It has a great storyline and has some awesome interviews/footage, even for someone who never played BW. Only 15 minutes, but absolutely awesome. | ||
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