• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:06
CET 21:06
KST 05:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win I am looking for StarCraft 2 Beta Patch files
Tourneys
$70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Navigating the Risks and Rew…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1782 users

Situation Report: August 31, 2012 by David Kim - Page 30

Forum Index > SC2 General
950 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 48 Next All
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
September 01 2012 09:42 GMT
#581
On September 01 2012 17:21 Werezerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:07 ELA wrote:
Well, TaeJa and MVP sure did screw that up for the rest of us :D


Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform.

...
studies conclude: 90% of terrans cannot read!

Honestly, blizzard said from the very beginning, that these changes are about the highest level of play only! If you guys loose in tvz, its just because you suck, l2p!

Really, what an outrage that blizzard is looking only at the highest level of play, when they want to know if the changes they plan to balance the highest level of play are really necessary!


Indeed, they are looking at the highest level of play! TvZ at the highest level of play was perfectly balanced. Then blizzard BUFFED THE QUEEN. Hi.
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1341 Posts
September 01 2012 09:55 GMT
#582
On September 01 2012 18:42 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 17:21 Werezerg wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:07 ELA wrote:
Well, TaeJa and MVP sure did screw that up for the rest of us :D


On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform.

...
studies conclude: 90% of terrans cannot read!

Honestly, blizzard said from the very beginning, that these changes are about the highest level of play only! If you guys loose in tvz, its just because you suck, l2p!

Really, what an outrage that blizzard is looking only at the highest level of play, when they want to know if the changes they plan to balance the highest level of play are really necessary!


Indeed, they are looking at the highest level of play! TvZ at the highest level of play was perfectly balanced. Then blizzard BUFFED THE QUEEN. Hi.


i like how terrans say it was perfectly balanced before the patch.

http://i.imgur.com/KGYMYh.png

as you can see TvZ was ALWAYS T favoured on the highest level and NEVER balanced in 50/50 balanced. so stop telling it was balanced and blizzard messed up. its the other way around! NOW it is about 50/50!
EmilA
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark4618 Posts
September 01 2012 10:01 GMT
#583
They're driving this game into its coffin. The queen buff seems to be a terrible solution to a the terrible unit design that is the hellion. While too many games ended with hellions slipping by, the solution just made every game boring.

"Oh and he just can't deal with the broodlords"
or
"LOOK AT THOSE THREE SEEKER MISSILES KILLING FIFTEEN BROODLORDS!!!"

If anything I'm expecting a damage cap to a single SM or an automated split mechanism exclusively for zerg air units so zerg can stick to macroing and a-move their units.
http://dotabuff.com/players/122305951 playing other games
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
September 01 2012 10:07 GMT
#584
On September 01 2012 18:55 Decendos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 18:42 Snowbear wrote:
On September 01 2012 17:21 Werezerg wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:07 ELA wrote:
Well, TaeJa and MVP sure did screw that up for the rest of us :D


On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform.

...
studies conclude: 90% of terrans cannot read!

Honestly, blizzard said from the very beginning, that these changes are about the highest level of play only! If you guys loose in tvz, its just because you suck, l2p!

Really, what an outrage that blizzard is looking only at the highest level of play, when they want to know if the changes they plan to balance the highest level of play are really necessary!


Indeed, they are looking at the highest level of play! TvZ at the highest level of play was perfectly balanced. Then blizzard BUFFED THE QUEEN. Hi.


i like how terrans say it was perfectly balanced before the patch.

http://i.imgur.com/KGYMYh.png

as you can see TvZ was ALWAYS T favoured on the highest level and NEVER balanced in 50/50 balanced. so stop telling it was balanced and blizzard messed up. its the other way around! NOW it is about 50/50!


Did you even look at the charts? Z>T (for the first time?) two months before the queen patch. Then the queenpatch destroyed the Terran metagame for one month. Then the matchup became perfectly balanced two months ago (on Korean prolevel).

The queen patch was probably unnecessary to begin with, the outcome of the queen patch however just shows how much more blizzard understands of balancing this game than anyone else.
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1341 Posts
September 01 2012 10:12 GMT
#585
On September 01 2012 19:07 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 18:55 Decendos wrote:
On September 01 2012 18:42 Snowbear wrote:
On September 01 2012 17:21 Werezerg wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:07 ELA wrote:
Well, TaeJa and MVP sure did screw that up for the rest of us :D


On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform.

...
studies conclude: 90% of terrans cannot read!

Honestly, blizzard said from the very beginning, that these changes are about the highest level of play only! If you guys loose in tvz, its just because you suck, l2p!

Really, what an outrage that blizzard is looking only at the highest level of play, when they want to know if the changes they plan to balance the highest level of play are really necessary!


Indeed, they are looking at the highest level of play! TvZ at the highest level of play was perfectly balanced. Then blizzard BUFFED THE QUEEN. Hi.


i like how terrans say it was perfectly balanced before the patch.

http://i.imgur.com/KGYMYh.png

as you can see TvZ was ALWAYS T favoured on the highest level and NEVER balanced in 50/50 balanced. so stop telling it was balanced and blizzard messed up. its the other way around! NOW it is about 50/50!


Did you even look at the charts? Z>T (for the first time?) two months before the queen patch. Then the queenpatch destroyed the Terran metagame for one month. Then the matchup became perfectly balanced two months ago (on Korean prolevel).

The queen patch was probably unnecessary to begin with, the outcome of the queen patch however just shows how much more blizzard understands of balancing this game than anyone else.


yes there was one month zerg favoured and next month T favoured again. just saying terrans should stop complaining about the queen patch which was obviously fine (2 months 50/50) since it made zvt more interesting (no more "build 4 helions and camp them in front of zerg base" every game) and made zvz a lot more skillbased instead of partly luckbased ling baneling wars.

blizzard did a good job there like you said.
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
September 01 2012 10:35 GMT
#586
On September 01 2012 01:14 TheDwf wrote:
So this is how Blizzard decides to balance or not the game? By watching Mvp crushing inferior Zergs then concluding TvZ is OK? How amateurish.

Is that the only map Blizzard had a look at? No. So how do you come to your conclusion?
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
bluQ
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Germany1724 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-01 10:56:50
September 01 2012 10:54 GMT
#587
So many douchbags only bashing blizzard for the sake of bashing.
When they pull ladder statistics those trolls go "ZOMG watch tournys you n00bz0rs!"
When they pull tournament games those go "ZOMG you watch a korean dest0rying som random n00bz0r!"

Pathetic.

on Topic: I agree with David Kims statement.
www.twitch.tv/bluquh (PoE, Starbow, HS)
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
September 01 2012 11:04 GMT
#588
Can they atleast change creep tumours so they cant be canceled? Why should you be able to cancel them? Not only will there be several queens spreading creep all over the map, but IF the other player tries to deny it, then you dont even have to send out units and defend it. Just cancel and get another chance to spread that tumour. Why is that? Why cant there be a prize to pay once you decide to spread the tumour without looking whats enemy units are close?
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
September 01 2012 11:20 GMT
#589
On September 01 2012 13:22 blug wrote:
I'm a zerg player I'll admit it.

I actually agree with the balance team for once. I think that terran does need more time to come up with more strats because I have been seeing so much success with heavy blue flame hellion play into mech (That isn't that APM intensive mind you).



Yeah dude that build isnt apm intensive? harassing with with hellions, banshees and taking care of all the macro, buidlings etc is quite apm intesive. Try killing 30 drones with harass, have 4-5 cc, and close to maxed out mech army at 15 min like Mvp. And do it with low apm
baconftw
Profile Joined July 2012
Denmark45 Posts
September 01 2012 11:21 GMT
#590
Been saying it ever since the start. Terrans just needed to learn the new metagame, and it would be fine. But I guess that people just enjoy complaining.
''Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness.'' - Sean ''Day[9]'' Plott.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
September 01 2012 11:21 GMT
#591
Have Ravens been used effectively on maps other them Metropolis?

I wish Blizzard had this "wait and see" atitude since the begining. There have been so many changes based on a few days or weeks of play (hellion, thor, ghost...and so many during beta)

Can't wait for HOTS and hopefuly better balance decisions.

Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
wcr.4fun
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium686 Posts
September 01 2012 11:40 GMT
#592
the only (big) mistake blizzard has made is not having this approach from the beginning of the game. But better late than never.
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
September 01 2012 11:44 GMT
#593
Team Liquid would profit a lot if they run mandatory ads for opening these balance related threads.
No other topic in the community attracts this many viewership/posts.

A thorough [G] strategy guide thread? 50,000 viewers over the course of maybe several weeks.
A balance related thread? BOOM 50,000 viewers in less than a day.

Having controversial balance issues in the community actually benefits Team Liquid. If I were to run Team Liquid, I would ask my mods not to warn/ban too many so that viewership goes up by having controversial posts that attract tons of counterargument posts.

The more you guys discuss, the more laughter I can hear from Team Liquid.
The KY
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom6252 Posts
September 01 2012 11:47 GMT
#594
But David I don't have teh micros!
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
September 01 2012 11:50 GMT
#595
On September 01 2012 20:44 Orek wrote:
Team Liquid would profit a lot if they run mandatory ads for opening these balance related threads.
No other topic in the community attracts this many viewership/posts.

A thorough [G] strategy guide thread? 50,000 viewers over the course of maybe several weeks.
A balance related thread? BOOM 50,000 viewers in less than a day.

Having controversial balance issues in the community actually benefits Team Liquid. If I were to run Team Liquid, I would ask my mods not to warn/ban too many so that viewership goes up by having controversial posts that attract tons of counterargument posts.

The more you guys discuss, the more laughter I can hear from Team Liquid.


Yeah, they even get ppl like you to open this thread, even though you are only here to write random, irrelevant stuff and not actually giving a shit about the topic.
lazyitachi
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
1043 Posts
September 01 2012 11:52 GMT
#596
On September 01 2012 20:44 Orek wrote:
Team Liquid would profit a lot if they run mandatory ads for opening these balance related threads.
No other topic in the community attracts this many viewership/posts.

A thorough [G] strategy guide thread? 50,000 viewers over the course of maybe several weeks.
A balance related thread? BOOM 50,000 viewers in less than a day.

Having controversial balance issues in the community actually benefits Team Liquid. If I were to run Team Liquid, I would ask my mods not to warn/ban too many so that viewership goes up by having controversial posts that attract tons of counterargument posts.

The more you guys discuss, the more laughter I can hear from Team Liquid.


The reason is because they don't play the game.. They are GSL level game balancing with bronze level skill.
Therefore it is pointless to actually execute since they hallucinate GSL level skills.

No guys.. I lose the game because the game is so imbalanced at my bronze - master level.. not because I am bad at the game!
Andre
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Slovenia3523 Posts
September 01 2012 11:59 GMT
#597
On September 01 2012 18:02 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 15:21 Andr3 wrote:
On September 01 2012 14:30 Cranium wrote:
The problem with the balance of the game is that every race has a viable T1 versatile unit except Zerg.

100% mass marine is decent against everything.

100% mass stalker is decent against everything.

If Zerg made anything other than 4+ queens, they wouldn't be able to deal with Hellion Banshee.

There is no way for Zerg to experiment with builds and come up with something that deals with Terran because Zerg cannot reliably beat Terran with early aggression.

For SC2 to exist as a competitive activity, you cannot make early aggression unbeatable or a coinflip.

If you want to revert the changes, give overlords a skill that gives them 2x movespeed for 10 seconds.

Do you even remember TvZ before patch? It was 10x times better to play/watch. Now it's MOSTLY passive play for the first ~10-12 minutes. Queens up, spread creep. Terrans for hellions deny some shit and go for 3rd.

Before patch it was madness, constant agression from both sides(Zerg was more on defensive and it was quite tough, yes..not imbalanced). The only reason I hate the queen patch is because it changed the whole gameplay, it made turtling so much better and viable for zerg.. and now for T as well.

TvZ was so freaking awesome, it's still good but it won't be DRG vs MMA lvl anytime soon -,-

not really.
Pre-patch, zerg either goes for roach baneling bust (see DRG vs MMA game again) to stop terran being so greedy: reactor hellion + quick 3rd CC.

now it kinds of go back to standard zerg gets a faster 3rd to adjust to the fact that the T has went for a quick CC or even a quick 3rd CC.

Now the TvZ has special way to deal with the quick CC, bunker hellion marine. Not that different from before actually as you watch more games

2rax?
gas openings?
2base siege tank pushes?

Yea it's not different at all. The trend did move towards more macro oriented as zerg learned to deal with agressive play from T but there were still so many openings to watch for. Siege tank pushes were literally the most standard thing ever(a battle of positioning&micro from terran, and doing a great flank+delaying the push as zerg, classic TvZ thing just like in BW), now you maybe see one at 15 min lol(and it has to do shitton of dmg).

As I've said, I do agree that it got similiar pre-patch as to how it's now, BUT viable BO's suddenly became very luck based/allinish.

You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Tuczniak
Profile Joined September 2010
1561 Posts
September 01 2012 12:00 GMT
#598
On September 01 2012 20:20 Fjodorov wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 13:22 blug wrote:
I'm a zerg player I'll admit it.

I actually agree with the balance team for once. I think that terran does need more time to come up with more strats because I have been seeing so much success with heavy blue flame hellion play into mech (That isn't that APM intensive mind you).



Yeah dude that build isnt apm intensive? harassing with with hellions, banshees and taking care of all the macro, buidlings etc is quite apm intesive. Try killing 30 drones with harass, have 4-5 cc, and close to maxed out mech army at 15 min like Mvp. And do it with low apm
Think before you speak. He meant that function effect=f(apm) is equivalent to what have other races. More apm is better, but it's not like you need over 200 to make it viable.
Caas
Profile Joined November 2011
Sweden51 Posts
September 01 2012 12:05 GMT
#599
But actually...
why are you missing the whole message in that situation report?
They say its very balanced and a slight edge for terrans ONCE again!

maybe the other progamers dont whine because they know how to win ?
or recognize their mistakes?

im glad that everything you say avilo is just points nothing more..
/very happy terran bronze player that plays for the fun of it..

PS : still watch the pro scene and enjoy it so dont make your little whiny *** opinion and claim it to be the whole communitys..

Dammit!
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17191 Posts
September 01 2012 12:06 GMT
#600
i get a laugh out of all the people claiming the game is doomed who have 1000+ posts and play the game more than 10 hours a week every week since March 2010.
let's assume they are correct and they never play another game or spend another minute involved with SC2.
that's a pretty good deal for $60 isn't it?



the other laugh i get is from those people who claim the game is fundamentally flawed and unfixable unless race "x" is completely redesigned from the ground up.
and they have been playing since March 2010.

if the game was doomed from the start why buy it?
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 48 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 55m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 546
UpATreeSC 165
BRAT_OK 139
ProTech135
JuggernautJason86
SKillous 69
FoxeR 40
Railgan 26
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2089
Mini 340
hero 34
NaDa 14
Dota 2
qojqva1944
Dendi496
syndereN157
Pyrionflax118
League of Legends
C9.Mang0143
Counter-Strike
FalleN 2273
fl0m1897
Fnx 1344
rGuardiaN51
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu365
Other Games
Grubby4546
Beastyqt1005
FrodaN935
B2W.Neo498
allub273
Fuzer 213
Livibee145
QueenE139
ArmadaUGS131
Liquid`Ken16
OptimusSC25
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 26
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH94
• Reevou 6
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 26
• FirePhoenix18
• Pr0nogo 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1267
Other Games
• imaqtpie1846
• Shiphtur300
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
4h 55m
The PondCast
13h 55m
OSC
14h 55m
Clem vs Cure
ByuN vs TBD
TBD vs Solar
MaxPax vs TBD
Krystianer vs TBD
ShoWTimE vs TBD
Big Brain Bouts
2 days
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
3 days
BSL 21
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-19
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Proleague 2026-01-20
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.