• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:45
CEST 20:45
KST 03:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes124BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch2Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups
Tourneys
Stellar Fest StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL20 General Discussion Soulkey on ASL S20 ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D NaDa's Body
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch [ASL20] Ro16 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Borderlands 3 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Too Many LANs? Tournament Ov…
TrAiDoS
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1971 users

Situation Report: August 31, 2012 by David Kim - Page 30

Forum Index > SC2 General
950 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 48 Next All
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
September 01 2012 09:42 GMT
#581
On September 01 2012 17:21 Werezerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:07 ELA wrote:
Well, TaeJa and MVP sure did screw that up for the rest of us :D


Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform.

...
studies conclude: 90% of terrans cannot read!

Honestly, blizzard said from the very beginning, that these changes are about the highest level of play only! If you guys loose in tvz, its just because you suck, l2p!

Really, what an outrage that blizzard is looking only at the highest level of play, when they want to know if the changes they plan to balance the highest level of play are really necessary!


Indeed, they are looking at the highest level of play! TvZ at the highest level of play was perfectly balanced. Then blizzard BUFFED THE QUEEN. Hi.
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1338 Posts
September 01 2012 09:55 GMT
#582
On September 01 2012 18:42 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 17:21 Werezerg wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:07 ELA wrote:
Well, TaeJa and MVP sure did screw that up for the rest of us :D


On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform.

...
studies conclude: 90% of terrans cannot read!

Honestly, blizzard said from the very beginning, that these changes are about the highest level of play only! If you guys loose in tvz, its just because you suck, l2p!

Really, what an outrage that blizzard is looking only at the highest level of play, when they want to know if the changes they plan to balance the highest level of play are really necessary!


Indeed, they are looking at the highest level of play! TvZ at the highest level of play was perfectly balanced. Then blizzard BUFFED THE QUEEN. Hi.


i like how terrans say it was perfectly balanced before the patch.

http://i.imgur.com/KGYMYh.png

as you can see TvZ was ALWAYS T favoured on the highest level and NEVER balanced in 50/50 balanced. so stop telling it was balanced and blizzard messed up. its the other way around! NOW it is about 50/50!
EmilA
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark4618 Posts
September 01 2012 10:01 GMT
#583
They're driving this game into its coffin. The queen buff seems to be a terrible solution to a the terrible unit design that is the hellion. While too many games ended with hellions slipping by, the solution just made every game boring.

"Oh and he just can't deal with the broodlords"
or
"LOOK AT THOSE THREE SEEKER MISSILES KILLING FIFTEEN BROODLORDS!!!"

If anything I'm expecting a damage cap to a single SM or an automated split mechanism exclusively for zerg air units so zerg can stick to macroing and a-move their units.
http://dotabuff.com/players/122305951 playing other games
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
September 01 2012 10:07 GMT
#584
On September 01 2012 18:55 Decendos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 18:42 Snowbear wrote:
On September 01 2012 17:21 Werezerg wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:07 ELA wrote:
Well, TaeJa and MVP sure did screw that up for the rest of us :D


On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform.

...
studies conclude: 90% of terrans cannot read!

Honestly, blizzard said from the very beginning, that these changes are about the highest level of play only! If you guys loose in tvz, its just because you suck, l2p!

Really, what an outrage that blizzard is looking only at the highest level of play, when they want to know if the changes they plan to balance the highest level of play are really necessary!


Indeed, they are looking at the highest level of play! TvZ at the highest level of play was perfectly balanced. Then blizzard BUFFED THE QUEEN. Hi.


i like how terrans say it was perfectly balanced before the patch.

http://i.imgur.com/KGYMYh.png

as you can see TvZ was ALWAYS T favoured on the highest level and NEVER balanced in 50/50 balanced. so stop telling it was balanced and blizzard messed up. its the other way around! NOW it is about 50/50!


Did you even look at the charts? Z>T (for the first time?) two months before the queen patch. Then the queenpatch destroyed the Terran metagame for one month. Then the matchup became perfectly balanced two months ago (on Korean prolevel).

The queen patch was probably unnecessary to begin with, the outcome of the queen patch however just shows how much more blizzard understands of balancing this game than anyone else.
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1338 Posts
September 01 2012 10:12 GMT
#585
On September 01 2012 19:07 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 18:55 Decendos wrote:
On September 01 2012 18:42 Snowbear wrote:
On September 01 2012 17:21 Werezerg wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:07 ELA wrote:
Well, TaeJa and MVP sure did screw that up for the rest of us :D


On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform.

...
studies conclude: 90% of terrans cannot read!

Honestly, blizzard said from the very beginning, that these changes are about the highest level of play only! If you guys loose in tvz, its just because you suck, l2p!

Really, what an outrage that blizzard is looking only at the highest level of play, when they want to know if the changes they plan to balance the highest level of play are really necessary!


Indeed, they are looking at the highest level of play! TvZ at the highest level of play was perfectly balanced. Then blizzard BUFFED THE QUEEN. Hi.


i like how terrans say it was perfectly balanced before the patch.

http://i.imgur.com/KGYMYh.png

as you can see TvZ was ALWAYS T favoured on the highest level and NEVER balanced in 50/50 balanced. so stop telling it was balanced and blizzard messed up. its the other way around! NOW it is about 50/50!


Did you even look at the charts? Z>T (for the first time?) two months before the queen patch. Then the queenpatch destroyed the Terran metagame for one month. Then the matchup became perfectly balanced two months ago (on Korean prolevel).

The queen patch was probably unnecessary to begin with, the outcome of the queen patch however just shows how much more blizzard understands of balancing this game than anyone else.


yes there was one month zerg favoured and next month T favoured again. just saying terrans should stop complaining about the queen patch which was obviously fine (2 months 50/50) since it made zvt more interesting (no more "build 4 helions and camp them in front of zerg base" every game) and made zvz a lot more skillbased instead of partly luckbased ling baneling wars.

blizzard did a good job there like you said.
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
September 01 2012 10:35 GMT
#586
On September 01 2012 01:14 TheDwf wrote:
So this is how Blizzard decides to balance or not the game? By watching Mvp crushing inferior Zergs then concluding TvZ is OK? How amateurish.

Is that the only map Blizzard had a look at? No. So how do you come to your conclusion?
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
bluQ
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Germany1724 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-01 10:56:50
September 01 2012 10:54 GMT
#587
So many douchbags only bashing blizzard for the sake of bashing.
When they pull ladder statistics those trolls go "ZOMG watch tournys you n00bz0rs!"
When they pull tournament games those go "ZOMG you watch a korean dest0rying som random n00bz0r!"

Pathetic.

on Topic: I agree with David Kims statement.
www.twitch.tv/bluquh (PoE, Starbow, HS)
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
September 01 2012 11:04 GMT
#588
Can they atleast change creep tumours so they cant be canceled? Why should you be able to cancel them? Not only will there be several queens spreading creep all over the map, but IF the other player tries to deny it, then you dont even have to send out units and defend it. Just cancel and get another chance to spread that tumour. Why is that? Why cant there be a prize to pay once you decide to spread the tumour without looking whats enemy units are close?
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
September 01 2012 11:20 GMT
#589
On September 01 2012 13:22 blug wrote:
I'm a zerg player I'll admit it.

I actually agree with the balance team for once. I think that terran does need more time to come up with more strats because I have been seeing so much success with heavy blue flame hellion play into mech (That isn't that APM intensive mind you).



Yeah dude that build isnt apm intensive? harassing with with hellions, banshees and taking care of all the macro, buidlings etc is quite apm intesive. Try killing 30 drones with harass, have 4-5 cc, and close to maxed out mech army at 15 min like Mvp. And do it with low apm
baconftw
Profile Joined July 2012
Denmark45 Posts
September 01 2012 11:21 GMT
#590
Been saying it ever since the start. Terrans just needed to learn the new metagame, and it would be fine. But I guess that people just enjoy complaining.
''Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness.'' - Sean ''Day[9]'' Plott.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
September 01 2012 11:21 GMT
#591
Have Ravens been used effectively on maps other them Metropolis?

I wish Blizzard had this "wait and see" atitude since the begining. There have been so many changes based on a few days or weeks of play (hellion, thor, ghost...and so many during beta)

Can't wait for HOTS and hopefuly better balance decisions.

Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
wcr.4fun
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium686 Posts
September 01 2012 11:40 GMT
#592
the only (big) mistake blizzard has made is not having this approach from the beginning of the game. But better late than never.
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
September 01 2012 11:44 GMT
#593
Team Liquid would profit a lot if they run mandatory ads for opening these balance related threads.
No other topic in the community attracts this many viewership/posts.

A thorough [G] strategy guide thread? 50,000 viewers over the course of maybe several weeks.
A balance related thread? BOOM 50,000 viewers in less than a day.

Having controversial balance issues in the community actually benefits Team Liquid. If I were to run Team Liquid, I would ask my mods not to warn/ban too many so that viewership goes up by having controversial posts that attract tons of counterargument posts.

The more you guys discuss, the more laughter I can hear from Team Liquid.
The KY
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom6252 Posts
September 01 2012 11:47 GMT
#594
But David I don't have teh micros!
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
September 01 2012 11:50 GMT
#595
On September 01 2012 20:44 Orek wrote:
Team Liquid would profit a lot if they run mandatory ads for opening these balance related threads.
No other topic in the community attracts this many viewership/posts.

A thorough [G] strategy guide thread? 50,000 viewers over the course of maybe several weeks.
A balance related thread? BOOM 50,000 viewers in less than a day.

Having controversial balance issues in the community actually benefits Team Liquid. If I were to run Team Liquid, I would ask my mods not to warn/ban too many so that viewership goes up by having controversial posts that attract tons of counterargument posts.

The more you guys discuss, the more laughter I can hear from Team Liquid.


Yeah, they even get ppl like you to open this thread, even though you are only here to write random, irrelevant stuff and not actually giving a shit about the topic.
lazyitachi
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
1043 Posts
September 01 2012 11:52 GMT
#596
On September 01 2012 20:44 Orek wrote:
Team Liquid would profit a lot if they run mandatory ads for opening these balance related threads.
No other topic in the community attracts this many viewership/posts.

A thorough [G] strategy guide thread? 50,000 viewers over the course of maybe several weeks.
A balance related thread? BOOM 50,000 viewers in less than a day.

Having controversial balance issues in the community actually benefits Team Liquid. If I were to run Team Liquid, I would ask my mods not to warn/ban too many so that viewership goes up by having controversial posts that attract tons of counterargument posts.

The more you guys discuss, the more laughter I can hear from Team Liquid.


The reason is because they don't play the game.. They are GSL level game balancing with bronze level skill.
Therefore it is pointless to actually execute since they hallucinate GSL level skills.

No guys.. I lose the game because the game is so imbalanced at my bronze - master level.. not because I am bad at the game!
Andre
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Slovenia3523 Posts
September 01 2012 11:59 GMT
#597
On September 01 2012 18:02 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 15:21 Andr3 wrote:
On September 01 2012 14:30 Cranium wrote:
The problem with the balance of the game is that every race has a viable T1 versatile unit except Zerg.

100% mass marine is decent against everything.

100% mass stalker is decent against everything.

If Zerg made anything other than 4+ queens, they wouldn't be able to deal with Hellion Banshee.

There is no way for Zerg to experiment with builds and come up with something that deals with Terran because Zerg cannot reliably beat Terran with early aggression.

For SC2 to exist as a competitive activity, you cannot make early aggression unbeatable or a coinflip.

If you want to revert the changes, give overlords a skill that gives them 2x movespeed for 10 seconds.

Do you even remember TvZ before patch? It was 10x times better to play/watch. Now it's MOSTLY passive play for the first ~10-12 minutes. Queens up, spread creep. Terrans for hellions deny some shit and go for 3rd.

Before patch it was madness, constant agression from both sides(Zerg was more on defensive and it was quite tough, yes..not imbalanced). The only reason I hate the queen patch is because it changed the whole gameplay, it made turtling so much better and viable for zerg.. and now for T as well.

TvZ was so freaking awesome, it's still good but it won't be DRG vs MMA lvl anytime soon -,-

not really.
Pre-patch, zerg either goes for roach baneling bust (see DRG vs MMA game again) to stop terran being so greedy: reactor hellion + quick 3rd CC.

now it kinds of go back to standard zerg gets a faster 3rd to adjust to the fact that the T has went for a quick CC or even a quick 3rd CC.

Now the TvZ has special way to deal with the quick CC, bunker hellion marine. Not that different from before actually as you watch more games

2rax?
gas openings?
2base siege tank pushes?

Yea it's not different at all. The trend did move towards more macro oriented as zerg learned to deal with agressive play from T but there were still so many openings to watch for. Siege tank pushes were literally the most standard thing ever(a battle of positioning&micro from terran, and doing a great flank+delaying the push as zerg, classic TvZ thing just like in BW), now you maybe see one at 15 min lol(and it has to do shitton of dmg).

As I've said, I do agree that it got similiar pre-patch as to how it's now, BUT viable BO's suddenly became very luck based/allinish.

You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Tuczniak
Profile Joined September 2010
1561 Posts
September 01 2012 12:00 GMT
#598
On September 01 2012 20:20 Fjodorov wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 13:22 blug wrote:
I'm a zerg player I'll admit it.

I actually agree with the balance team for once. I think that terran does need more time to come up with more strats because I have been seeing so much success with heavy blue flame hellion play into mech (That isn't that APM intensive mind you).



Yeah dude that build isnt apm intensive? harassing with with hellions, banshees and taking care of all the macro, buidlings etc is quite apm intesive. Try killing 30 drones with harass, have 4-5 cc, and close to maxed out mech army at 15 min like Mvp. And do it with low apm
Think before you speak. He meant that function effect=f(apm) is equivalent to what have other races. More apm is better, but it's not like you need over 200 to make it viable.
Caas
Profile Joined November 2011
Sweden51 Posts
September 01 2012 12:05 GMT
#599
But actually...
why are you missing the whole message in that situation report?
They say its very balanced and a slight edge for terrans ONCE again!

maybe the other progamers dont whine because they know how to win ?
or recognize their mistakes?

im glad that everything you say avilo is just points nothing more..
/very happy terran bronze player that plays for the fun of it..

PS : still watch the pro scene and enjoy it so dont make your little whiny *** opinion and claim it to be the whole communitys..

Dammit!
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16775 Posts
September 01 2012 12:06 GMT
#600
i get a laugh out of all the people claiming the game is doomed who have 1000+ posts and play the game more than 10 hours a week every week since March 2010.
let's assume they are correct and they never play another game or spend another minute involved with SC2.
that's a pretty good deal for $60 isn't it?



the other laugh i get is from those people who claim the game is fundamentally flawed and unfixable unless race "x" is completely redesigned from the ground up.
and they have been playing since March 2010.

if the game was doomed from the start why buy it?
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 48 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 15m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 458
PiGStarcraft405
UpATreeSC 202
IndyStarCraft 120
Codebar 49
JuggernautJason47
MindelVK 42
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 19713
Dewaltoss 118
PianO 67
soO 53
Movie 16
HiyA 11
Dota 2
qojqva4236
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1208
fl0m990
ScreaM981
Other Games
tarik_tv34901
gofns16534
FrodaN6376
Grubby2204
B2W.Neo283
Hui .183
Fuzer 115
C9.Mang092
TKL 91
QueenE73
XaKoH 72
Trikslyr62
NeuroSwarm42
ViBE1
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• sitaska54
• Hupsaiya 38
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix20
• 80smullet 15
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4712
League of Legends
• Nemesis4101
Other Games
• imaqtpie853
• WagamamaTV308
• Shiphtur253
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
8h 15m
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
13h 15m
RSL Revival
15h 15m
Reynor vs Cure
TBD vs Zoun
OSC
1d 2h
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 13h
RSL Revival
1d 15h
Classic vs TBD
Online Event
1d 21h
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
LiuLi Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.