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On September 01 2012 17:21 Werezerg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:07 ELA wrote:
Well, TaeJa and MVP sure did screw that up for the rest of us :D Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform. ... studies conclude: 90% of terrans cannot read! Honestly, blizzard said from the very beginning, that these changes are about the highest level of play only! If you guys loose in tvz, its just because you suck, l2p! Really, what an outrage that blizzard is looking only at the highest level of play, when they want to know if the changes they plan to balance the highest level of play are really necessary!
Indeed, they are looking at the highest level of play! TvZ at the highest level of play was perfectly balanced. Then blizzard BUFFED THE QUEEN. Hi.
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On September 01 2012 18:42 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 17:21 Werezerg wrote:On September 01 2012 01:07 ELA wrote:
Well, TaeJa and MVP sure did screw that up for the rest of us :D On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform. ... studies conclude: 90% of terrans cannot read! Honestly, blizzard said from the very beginning, that these changes are about the highest level of play only! If you guys loose in tvz, its just because you suck, l2p! Really, what an outrage that blizzard is looking only at the highest level of play, when they want to know if the changes they plan to balance the highest level of play are really necessary! Indeed, they are looking at the highest level of play! TvZ at the highest level of play was perfectly balanced. Then blizzard BUFFED THE QUEEN. Hi.
i like how terrans say it was perfectly balanced before the patch.
http://i.imgur.com/KGYMYh.png
as you can see TvZ was ALWAYS T favoured on the highest level and NEVER balanced in 50/50 balanced. so stop telling it was balanced and blizzard messed up. its the other way around! NOW it is about 50/50!
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They're driving this game into its coffin. The queen buff seems to be a terrible solution to a the terrible unit design that is the hellion. While too many games ended with hellions slipping by, the solution just made every game boring.
"Oh and he just can't deal with the broodlords"
or
"LOOK AT THOSE THREE SEEKER MISSILES KILLING FIFTEEN BROODLORDS!!!"
If anything I'm expecting a damage cap to a single SM or an automated split mechanism exclusively for zerg air units so zerg can stick to macroing and a-move their units.
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On September 01 2012 18:55 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 18:42 Snowbear wrote:On September 01 2012 17:21 Werezerg wrote:On September 01 2012 01:07 ELA wrote:
Well, TaeJa and MVP sure did screw that up for the rest of us :D On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform. ... studies conclude: 90% of terrans cannot read! Honestly, blizzard said from the very beginning, that these changes are about the highest level of play only! If you guys loose in tvz, its just because you suck, l2p! Really, what an outrage that blizzard is looking only at the highest level of play, when they want to know if the changes they plan to balance the highest level of play are really necessary! Indeed, they are looking at the highest level of play! TvZ at the highest level of play was perfectly balanced. Then blizzard BUFFED THE QUEEN. Hi. i like how terrans say it was perfectly balanced before the patch. http://i.imgur.com/KGYMYh.pngas you can see TvZ was ALWAYS T favoured on the highest level and NEVER balanced in 50/50 balanced. so stop telling it was balanced and blizzard messed up. its the other way around! NOW it is about 50/50!
Did you even look at the charts? Z>T (for the first time?) two months before the queen patch. Then the queenpatch destroyed the Terran metagame for one month. Then the matchup became perfectly balanced two months ago (on Korean prolevel).
The queen patch was probably unnecessary to begin with, the outcome of the queen patch however just shows how much more blizzard understands of balancing this game than anyone else.
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On September 01 2012 19:07 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 18:55 Decendos wrote:On September 01 2012 18:42 Snowbear wrote:On September 01 2012 17:21 Werezerg wrote:On September 01 2012 01:07 ELA wrote:
Well, TaeJa and MVP sure did screw that up for the rest of us :D On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform. ... studies conclude: 90% of terrans cannot read! Honestly, blizzard said from the very beginning, that these changes are about the highest level of play only! If you guys loose in tvz, its just because you suck, l2p! Really, what an outrage that blizzard is looking only at the highest level of play, when they want to know if the changes they plan to balance the highest level of play are really necessary! Indeed, they are looking at the highest level of play! TvZ at the highest level of play was perfectly balanced. Then blizzard BUFFED THE QUEEN. Hi. i like how terrans say it was perfectly balanced before the patch. http://i.imgur.com/KGYMYh.pngas you can see TvZ was ALWAYS T favoured on the highest level and NEVER balanced in 50/50 balanced. so stop telling it was balanced and blizzard messed up. its the other way around! NOW it is about 50/50! Did you even look at the charts? Z>T (for the first time?) two months before the queen patch. Then the queenpatch destroyed the Terran metagame for one month. Then the matchup became perfectly balanced two months ago (on Korean prolevel). The queen patch was probably unnecessary to begin with, the outcome of the queen patch however just shows how much more blizzard understands of balancing this game than anyone else.
yes there was one month zerg favoured and next month T favoured again. just saying terrans should stop complaining about the queen patch which was obviously fine (2 months 50/50) since it made zvt more interesting (no more "build 4 helions and camp them in front of zerg base" every game) and made zvz a lot more skillbased instead of partly luckbased ling baneling wars.
blizzard did a good job there like you said.
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On September 01 2012 01:14 TheDwf wrote:
So this is how Blizzard decides to balance or not the game? By watching Mvp crushing inferior Zergs then concluding TvZ is OK? How amateurish.
Is that the only map Blizzard had a look at? No. So how do you come to your conclusion?
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So many douchbags only bashing blizzard for the sake of bashing.
When they pull ladder statistics those trolls go "ZOMG watch tournys you n00bz0rs!"
When they pull tournament games those go "ZOMG you watch a korean dest0rying som random n00bz0r!"
Pathetic.
on Topic: I agree with David Kims statement.
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Can they atleast change creep tumours so they cant be canceled? Why should you be able to cancel them? Not only will there be several queens spreading creep all over the map, but IF the other player tries to deny it, then you dont even have to send out units and defend it. Just cancel and get another chance to spread that tumour. Why is that? Why cant there be a prize to pay once you decide to spread the tumour without looking whats enemy units are close?
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On September 01 2012 13:22 blug wrote:
I'm a zerg player I'll admit it.
I actually agree with the balance team for once. I think that terran does need more time to come up with more strats because I have been seeing so much success with heavy blue flame hellion play into mech (That isn't that APM intensive mind you).
Yeah dude that build isnt apm intensive? harassing with with hellions, banshees and taking care of all the macro, buidlings etc is quite apm intesive. Try killing 30 drones with harass, have 4-5 cc, and close to maxed out mech army at 15 min like Mvp. And do it with low apm 
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Been saying it ever since the start. Terrans just needed to learn the new metagame, and it would be fine. But I guess that people just enjoy complaining.
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Have Ravens been used effectively on maps other them Metropolis?
I wish Blizzard had this "wait and see" atitude since the begining. There have been so many changes based on a few days or weeks of play (hellion, thor, ghost...and so many during beta)
Can't wait for HOTS and hopefuly better balance decisions.
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the only (big) mistake blizzard has made is not having this approach from the beginning of the game. But better late than never.
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Team Liquid would profit a lot if they run mandatory ads for opening these balance related threads.
No other topic in the community attracts this many viewership/posts.
A thorough [G] strategy guide thread? 50,000 viewers over the course of maybe several weeks.
A balance related thread? BOOM 50,000 viewers in less than a day.
Having controversial balance issues in the community actually benefits Team Liquid. If I were to run Team Liquid, I would ask my mods not to warn/ban too many so that viewership goes up by having controversial posts that attract tons of counterargument posts.
The more you guys discuss, the more laughter I can hear from Team Liquid.
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But David I don't have teh micros!
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On September 01 2012 20:44 Orek wrote:
Team Liquid would profit a lot if they run mandatory ads for opening these balance related threads.
No other topic in the community attracts this many viewership/posts.
A thorough [G] strategy guide thread? 50,000 viewers over the course of maybe several weeks.
A balance related thread? BOOM 50,000 viewers in less than a day.
Having controversial balance issues in the community actually benefits Team Liquid. If I were to run Team Liquid, I would ask my mods not to warn/ban too many so that viewership goes up by having controversial posts that attract tons of counterargument posts.
The more you guys discuss, the more laughter I can hear from Team Liquid.
Yeah, they even get ppl like you to open this thread, even though you are only here to write random, irrelevant stuff and not actually giving a shit about the topic.
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On September 01 2012 20:44 Orek wrote:
Team Liquid would profit a lot if they run mandatory ads for opening these balance related threads.
No other topic in the community attracts this many viewership/posts.
A thorough [G] strategy guide thread? 50,000 viewers over the course of maybe several weeks.
A balance related thread? BOOM 50,000 viewers in less than a day.
Having controversial balance issues in the community actually benefits Team Liquid. If I were to run Team Liquid, I would ask my mods not to warn/ban too many so that viewership goes up by having controversial posts that attract tons of counterargument posts.
The more you guys discuss, the more laughter I can hear from Team Liquid.
The reason is because they don't play the game.. They are GSL level game balancing with bronze level skill.
Therefore it is pointless to actually execute since they hallucinate GSL level skills.
No guys.. I lose the game because the game is so imbalanced at my bronze - master level.. not because I am bad at the game!
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On September 01 2012 18:02 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 15:21 Andr3 wrote:On September 01 2012 14:30 Cranium wrote:
The problem with the balance of the game is that every race has a viable T1 versatile unit except Zerg.
100% mass marine is decent against everything.
100% mass stalker is decent against everything.
If Zerg made anything other than 4+ queens, they wouldn't be able to deal with Hellion Banshee.
There is no way for Zerg to experiment with builds and come up with something that deals with Terran because Zerg cannot reliably beat Terran with early aggression.
For SC2 to exist as a competitive activity, you cannot make early aggression unbeatable or a coinflip.
If you want to revert the changes, give overlords a skill that gives them 2x movespeed for 10 seconds. Do you even remember TvZ before patch? It was 10x times better to play/watch. Now it's MOSTLY passive play for the first ~10-12 minutes. Queens up, spread creep. Terrans for hellions deny some shit and go for 3rd. Before patch it was madness, constant agression from both sides(Zerg was more on defensive and it was quite tough, yes..not imbalanced). The only reason I hate the queen patch is because it changed the whole gameplay, it made turtling so much better and viable for zerg.. and now for T as well. TvZ was so freaking awesome, it's still good but it won't be DRG vs MMA lvl anytime soon -,- not really. Pre-patch, zerg either goes for roach baneling bust (see DRG vs MMA game again) to stop terran being so greedy: reactor hellion + quick 3rd CC. now it kinds of go back to standard zerg gets a faster 3rd to adjust to the fact that the T has went for a quick CC or even a quick 3rd CC. Now the TvZ has special way to deal with the quick CC, bunker hellion marine. Not that different from before actually as you watch more games
2rax?
gas openings?
2base siege tank pushes?
Yea it's not different at all. The trend did move towards more macro oriented as zerg learned to deal with agressive play from T but there were still so many openings to watch for. Siege tank pushes were literally the most standard thing ever(a battle of positioningµ from terran, and doing a great flank+delaying the push as zerg, classic TvZ thing just like in BW), now you maybe see one at 15 min lol(and it has to do shitton of dmg).
As I've said, I do agree that it got similiar pre-patch as to how it's now, BUT viable BO's suddenly became very luck based/allinish.
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On September 01 2012 20:20 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 13:22 blug wrote:
I'm a zerg player I'll admit it.
I actually agree with the balance team for once. I think that terran does need more time to come up with more strats because I have been seeing so much success with heavy blue flame hellion play into mech (That isn't that APM intensive mind you).
Yeah dude that build isnt apm intensive? harassing with with hellions, banshees and taking care of all the macro, buidlings etc is quite apm intesive. Try killing 30 drones with harass, have 4-5 cc, and close to maxed out mech army at 15 min like Mvp. And do it with low apm Think before you speak. He meant that function effect=f(apm) is equivalent to what have other races. More apm is better, but it's not like you need over 200 to make it viable.
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But actually...
why are you missing the whole message in that situation report?
They say its very balanced and a slight edge for terrans ONCE again!
maybe the other progamers dont whine because they know how to win ?
or recognize their mistakes?
im glad that everything you say avilo is just points nothing more..
/very happy terran bronze player that plays for the fun of it..
PS : still watch the pro scene and enjoy it so dont make your little whiny *** opinion and claim it to be the whole communitys..
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i get a laugh out of all the people claiming the game is doomed who have 1000+ posts and play the game more than 10 hours a week every week since March 2010.
let's assume they are correct and they never play another game or spend another minute involved with SC2.
that's a pretty good deal for $60 isn't it?
the other laugh i get is from those people who claim the game is fundamentally flawed and unfixable unless race "x" is completely redesigned from the ground up.
and they have been playing since March 2010.
if the game was doomed from the start why buy it?
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EPT
