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Situation Report: August 31, 2012 by David Kim - Page 29

Forum Index > SC2 General
950 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 27 28 29 30 31 48 Next All
aviator116
Profile Joined November 2011
United States820 Posts
September 01 2012 07:47 GMT
#561
I was going to type out an intelligent response, something along the lines of "Nestea was losing infestors left and right, and not dealing well with Kas' multitask and aggression", and then I realized that he was zerg, and everything made sense.
Bogus ST_Life IMMVP
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
September 01 2012 07:49 GMT
#562
On September 01 2012 16:41 fawkz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 16:38 Mephtral wrote:
On September 01 2012 16:24 fawkz wrote:
On September 01 2012 16:18 Mephtral wrote:
On September 01 2012 16:00 Whatson wrote:
On September 01 2012 15:50 Mephtral wrote:
On September 01 2012 15:35 Whatson wrote:
Holy shit because MVP made TvZ work against Europeans, all of a sudden the game is balanced? Blizzard blows my mind so many times, this is fucking ridiculous.


And at the same time they made european TvZ work against Nestea?


oh sorry, i shouldn't disturb you in that bubble

What bubble? I don't consider Nestea that good of a Zerg anymore. Do tell me how many zergs got into IEM ro4? Sorry to burst your bubble idiot.


You dont consider Nestea a good zerg anymore? wtf lol
everyone knows he isn't best zerg in the world anymore, but he is still easily top zerg...^^
You cant possibly deny that?


The "bubble" is the one where you are ignorant enough to think blizzard balances the game by watching 1 terran win one tournament..while you ignore everything else, like terrans getting back to even winrates again, a ton of terrans saying they dont feel it's nearly as bad now, and they feel like they can play against zergs again with new builds.

MVP winning means NOTHING, it's 1 player, same goes for Kas winning against nestea, but the fact that you picked one of them and more or less say "This one should be expected! it doesn't count, he is top korean and they are foreigners" and at the same time say the other one that is a foreigner crushing a 3 time Code S champion (And still Code S) isn't surprising because the zerg isn't very good.. it's just amazing..






you havnt watched sc2 in 6 months or what? nestea hasnt been a top zerg in a long time. tvz is shit and imbalanced...when 90% of people complain about a matchup something must be done


I have.
once again, sorry i forgot that Code S is mid tier players nowadays, forgive me ^^

90% of people do not complain, Most people did complain after the patch, it has been quite some time, and winrates are going back towards 50/50 again, not there yet, but it's getting there

Btw, i'm 100% in support of the patch changes, i want them to patch it too... What i am tired of is seeing idiots make idiotic comments such as "MVP wins = no patch" it's not as simple as that, and anyone that thinks so is actually an idiot.


sorry to dissapoint you, but blizzard is simply NOT capable of balancing their own game. it just wont happen. the truth is they did look at just one tournament, and simply said "tvz fine"

game is dead/will be dead competetivly soon after hots launch.

How can you say the game is imbalanced? Every race is like within a few % of eachother in the matchups. That is basically as balanced as BW. Right now we are entering a protoss era of dominance, though. But that is just a natural flow that will change.

ZvP hasnt changed at all in terms of balance since the queen change, yet protoss are crushing most zergs lately. And those few months ago protoss were saying PvZ was unwinnable.
Mephtral
Profile Joined December 2011
Sweden60 Posts
September 01 2012 07:51 GMT
#563
On September 01 2012 16:47 aviator116 wrote:
I was going to type out an intelligent response, something along the lines of "Nestea was losing infestors left and right, and not dealing well with Kas' multitask and aggression", and then I realized that he was zerg, and everything made sense.


Lol yeah, then i was going to respond with something like "Kas was losing drops to zerglings left and right, and moving ravens without HSM or energy into broodlord/infestor/corruptor armies, and not making medivacs for his pushes and losing clumped up armies to more or less 3 fungals, lol, but then i remembered he is terran, so that shouldn't be mentioned.
RaiKageRyu
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada4773 Posts
September 01 2012 07:51 GMT
#564
On September 01 2012 10:40 Femari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 10:33 Sated wrote:
On September 01 2012 10:12 InoyouS2 wrote:
On September 01 2012 10:04 Jerubaal wrote:
I'd just like to chime in again and remind you all to really realize that it literally doesn't matter what change Kim proposed or dismissed, there would still be the exact same number of people in here saying he's an idiot and incompetent.


Wrong; I liked David Kim before this, now I think he's just being an idiot.
(spoiler: balance discussion)
+ Show Spoiler +

Before the queen buff TvZ was BY FAR the best match up to watch, the problem the queen change gave is that Terran is always behind in macro, and to compensate, damage to the mineral line was vital to be able to keep up with Zerg. The queen buff not only made it impossible for hellions/marines to kite queens early-game (where the damage done actually matters), but it allowed the Zerg players to be RIDICULOUSLY greedy...

Seriously, a unit that helps with macro (larva), helps with map control (creep spread), is superior to all early game air and ground unit choices the opponent can make, and it doesn't even use up a production slot.

It also takes away a lot of the decision making that made great Zergs stand out; when to build lings, when to drone. If you don't need lings to defend because you have queens, you can dedicate 100% of your larva to drone production, leaving yourself only mildly open to an all-in.


That TvZ was the best match-up is just your opinion. High horse, off it.

It was the majority opinion.


yep, I remember many pros citing TvZ as best matchup in SC2 back then, even Protoss players like Huk agreed.

Having hellion opening every single time doesn't make for a bad matchup. It's just a standard opening. BW had those. It's how you know when a matchup has become stable and isn't ruled by shifting metagames. Even if the you found the opening boring, it allowed for a more interesting midgame than we see nowadays.
Someone call down the Thunder?
aviator116
Profile Joined November 2011
United States820 Posts
September 01 2012 07:53 GMT
#565
On September 01 2012 16:51 Mephtral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 16:47 aviator116 wrote:
I was going to type out an intelligent response, something along the lines of "Nestea was losing infestors left and right, and not dealing well with Kas' multitask and aggression", and then I realized that he was zerg, and everything made sense.


Lol yeah, then i was going to respond with something like "Kas was losing drops to zerglings left and right, and moving ravens without HSM or energy into broodlord/infestor/corruptor armies, and not making medivacs for his pushes and losing clumped up armies to more or less 3 fungals, lol, but then i remembered he is terran, so that shouldn't be mentioned.

I'm not going to get into a flaming argument with somebody who has to mimic my response in order to provide an argument...
Bogus ST_Life IMMVP
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-01 07:55:41
September 01 2012 07:54 GMT
#566
Zergs will always have excuses. That's just a way of life. 3 out of top 4 at IEM? Oh they're just the better players of course.
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Mephtral
Profile Joined December 2011
Sweden60 Posts
September 01 2012 07:56 GMT
#567
On September 01 2012 16:53 aviator116 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 16:51 Mephtral wrote:
On September 01 2012 16:47 aviator116 wrote:
I was going to type out an intelligent response, something along the lines of "Nestea was losing infestors left and right, and not dealing well with Kas' multitask and aggression", and then I realized that he was zerg, and everything made sense.


Lol yeah, then i was going to respond with something like "Kas was losing drops to zerglings left and right, and moving ravens without HSM or energy into broodlord/infestor/corruptor armies, and not making medivacs for his pushes and losing clumped up armies to more or less 3 fungals, lol, but then i remembered he is terran, so that shouldn't be mentioned.

I'm not going to get into a flaming argument with somebody who has to mimic my response in order to provide an argument...


It's not a flaming argument, you made a dumb post that was more or less "Zerg players are bad, so one should not be surprised when they lose", You didn't have a argument, you were whining.
I just responded with the same, do you see how stupid and pointless that kind of shit is?
Cereb
Profile Joined November 2011
Denmark3388 Posts
September 01 2012 07:57 GMT
#568
Judging from all the balance complaining there had been going on on TL, I was really excepting this thread to just be a complete nightmare...


But for the most part, the reactions here seem relatively modest and thought-out with a few exceptions...


Well done TL, well done!
"Until the very very top in almost anything, all that matters is how much work you put in. The only problem is most people can't work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they don't have a real passion for. -Greg "IdrA" Fields
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-01 07:58:36
September 01 2012 07:58 GMT
#569
¯\_(シ)_/¯
aviator116
Profile Joined November 2011
United States820 Posts
September 01 2012 08:00 GMT
#570
On September 01 2012 16:56 Mephtral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 16:53 aviator116 wrote:
On September 01 2012 16:51 Mephtral wrote:
On September 01 2012 16:47 aviator116 wrote:
I was going to type out an intelligent response, something along the lines of "Nestea was losing infestors left and right, and not dealing well with Kas' multitask and aggression", and then I realized that he was zerg, and everything made sense.


Lol yeah, then i was going to respond with something like "Kas was losing drops to zerglings left and right, and moving ravens without HSM or energy into broodlord/infestor/corruptor armies, and not making medivacs for his pushes and losing clumped up armies to more or less 3 fungals, lol, but then i remembered he is terran, so that shouldn't be mentioned.

I'm not going to get into a flaming argument with somebody who has to mimic my response in order to provide an argument...


It's not a flaming argument, you made a dumb post that was more or less "Zerg players are bad, so one should not be surprised when they lose", You didn't have a argument, you were whining.
I just responded with the same, do you see how stupid and pointless that kind of shit is?

Once again: I'm not going to get into a flaming argument.
Have a nice day.
Bogus ST_Life IMMVP
Werezerg
Profile Joined June 2008
Germany62 Posts
September 01 2012 08:21 GMT
#571
On September 01 2012 01:07 ELA wrote:
Well, TaeJa and MVP sure did screw that up for the rest of us :D


On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform.

...
studies conclude: 90% of terrans cannot read!

Honestly, blizzard said from the very beginning, that these changes are about the highest level of play only! If you guys loose in tvz, its just because you suck, l2p!

Really, what an outrage that blizzard is looking only at the highest level of play, when they want to know if the changes they plan to balance the highest level of play are really necessary!
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
September 01 2012 08:31 GMT
#572
On September 01 2012 17:00 aviator116 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 16:56 Mephtral wrote:
On September 01 2012 16:53 aviator116 wrote:
On September 01 2012 16:51 Mephtral wrote:
On September 01 2012 16:47 aviator116 wrote:
I was going to type out an intelligent response, something along the lines of "Nestea was losing infestors left and right, and not dealing well with Kas' multitask and aggression", and then I realized that he was zerg, and everything made sense.


Lol yeah, then i was going to respond with something like "Kas was losing drops to zerglings left and right, and moving ravens without HSM or energy into broodlord/infestor/corruptor armies, and not making medivacs for his pushes and losing clumped up armies to more or less 3 fungals, lol, but then i remembered he is terran, so that shouldn't be mentioned.

I'm not going to get into a flaming argument with somebody who has to mimic my response in order to provide an argument...


It's not a flaming argument, you made a dumb post that was more or less "Zerg players are bad, so one should not be surprised when they lose", You didn't have a argument, you were whining.
I just responded with the same, do you see how stupid and pointless that kind of shit is?

Once again: I'm not going to get into a flaming argument.
Have a nice day.


Dude, you can't just bait a 'flaming argument' like that and then condescendingly refuse to participate in said argument when someone actually takes the bait. It doesn't make you the better person - it just makes you an asshole.
lessQQmorePEWPEW
Profile Joined November 2011
Jamaica921 Posts
September 01 2012 08:37 GMT
#573
oh god. david kim and his reasonings. he always has an excuse to nerf terrans and buff others i feel.
Why drink and drive when you can smoke and fly - Bob Marley
M.R. McThundercrotch
Profile Joined June 2012
United States265 Posts
September 01 2012 08:39 GMT
#574
Man, I just can't wait until after Blizzard is done and KeSPA and eSF can get together and make their own "Pro" mod.
On June 30 2012 01:42 iNcontroL wrote: Fuck a lot of you. Fuck you forever.
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
September 01 2012 09:02 GMT
#575
Wasn't planning on buying hots anyway ^^
Terran & Potato Salad.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12387 Posts
September 01 2012 09:02 GMT
#576
On September 01 2012 15:21 Andr3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 14:30 Cranium wrote:
The problem with the balance of the game is that every race has a viable T1 versatile unit except Zerg.

100% mass marine is decent against everything.

100% mass stalker is decent against everything.

If Zerg made anything other than 4+ queens, they wouldn't be able to deal with Hellion Banshee.

There is no way for Zerg to experiment with builds and come up with something that deals with Terran because Zerg cannot reliably beat Terran with early aggression.

For SC2 to exist as a competitive activity, you cannot make early aggression unbeatable or a coinflip.

If you want to revert the changes, give overlords a skill that gives them 2x movespeed for 10 seconds.

Do you even remember TvZ before patch? It was 10x times better to play/watch. Now it's MOSTLY passive play for the first ~10-12 minutes. Queens up, spread creep. Terrans for hellions deny some shit and go for 3rd.

Before patch it was madness, constant agression from both sides(Zerg was more on defensive and it was quite tough, yes..not imbalanced). The only reason I hate the queen patch is because it changed the whole gameplay, it made turtling so much better and viable for zerg.. and now for T as well.

TvZ was so freaking awesome, it's still good but it won't be DRG vs MMA lvl anytime soon -,-

not really.
Pre-patch, zerg either goes for roach baneling bust (see DRG vs MMA game again) to stop terran being so greedy: reactor hellion + quick 3rd CC.

now it kinds of go back to standard zerg gets a faster 3rd to adjust to the fact that the T has went for a quick CC or even a quick 3rd CC.

Now the TvZ has special way to deal with the quick CC, bunker hellion marine. Not that different from before actually as you watch more games
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
graNite
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany4434 Posts
September 01 2012 09:15 GMT
#577
Why do people say that Mvp and Taeja know how to play TvZ?
They just found a way to circumvent the problem by turteling hardcore. Is that really a fix? It would be a better game if terran had the ability to punish greedy thirds without going allin and if terran had something to slowly transition and not do a 180° turn like going mass starport after marine tank.
"Oink oink, bitches" - Tasteless on Pigbaby winning a map against Flash
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
September 01 2012 09:33 GMT
#578
It is the right move but for the wrong reasons.
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
stonetalon
Profile Joined July 2011
Netherlands482 Posts
September 01 2012 09:35 GMT
#579
korean terrans beating foreign zergs and that makes TvZ balanced?!?! blizzard apearently doesnt understand their own game.
MarineKingPrime, LiquidTaeja, Grubby, Naniwa fighting!
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-01 09:37:43
September 01 2012 09:37 GMT
#580
On September 01 2012 18:15 graNite wrote:
Why do people say that Mvp and Taeja know how to play TvZ?
They just found a way to circumvent the problem by turteling hardcore. Is that really a fix? It would be a better game if terran had the ability to punish greedy thirds without going allin and if terran had something to slowly transition and not do a 180° turn like going mass starport after marine tank.


Yes, they way they play is a fix, as it obviously works and also worked before the patch. MVP has been playing very defensive styles for 2years now.
And no they aren't even turtling hardcore. They use banshees and hellions and drops to put on pressure and move out halfway on the map to put on pressure.

And yes, it would be nice if the game had more smooth transitions. Blizzard missed that chance long time ago, when they nerfed roaches and hydras down, so they turned out to become midgame exclusive (if even that) units and afterwards balanced the game around the resulting dynamics.
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