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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:27 n0ise wrote: about one in five battle reports actually make sense, crossing my fingers for the next one ^^ :D Im hoping for a TvP battle report thing next time :D | ||
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pallad
Poland1958 Posts
80% of post here sound like bronze-plat players.. its insane. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
gsl code S most players are terrans now and if you gave a look to REALITY ... he 2-0 EVERY zerg ... shine symbol yugioh he dont care 2-0 over and over, if other players start play like reality ... damn terran is so strong perfect balance for me right now  you all seems want a tvz buff while there is a player with a 100000-0 record in tvz ... perhaps terrans have to addept ? | ||
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Mr Showtime
United States1353 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:29 Sajaki wrote: :D Im hoping for a TvP battle report thing next time :D They just did a TvP battle report. Are you talking about the situation reports like this? | ||
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pallad
Poland1958 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:32 CoR wrote: absolutly RIGHT gsl code S most players are terrans now and if you gave a look to REALITY ... he 2-0 EVERY zerg ... shine symbol yugioh he dont care 2-0 over and over, if other players start play like reality ... damn terran is so strong perfect balance for me right now you all seems want a tvz buff while there is a player with a 100000-0 record in tvz ... perhaps terrans have to addept ? True.. if SOMEONE CAN make good strategy or build working.. NEED TO PLAY more.. and NOT WHINE at balance .. some players show that is possible to win vs zergs players ez.. | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:32 CoR wrote: absolutly RIGHT gsl code S most players are terrans now and if you gave a look to REALITY ... he 2-0 EVERY zerg ... shine symbol yugioh he dont care 2-0 over and over, if other players start play like reality ... damn terran is so strong perfect balance for me right now you all seems want a tvz buff while there is a player with a 100000-0 record in tvz ... perhaps terrans have to addept ? Adapt* Adept means proficient or expert like (which these QQers clearly are not)  Unless of course you want to say they are adept at balance whining. | ||
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Wingblade
United States1806 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:23 DebtSC2 wrote: Except its not asymmetric, its completely lopsided. I play P and Z and T all at the master level, all around 1100 pt in master. I play terran at least twice as much as the other races combined. It is orders of magnitude easier to win with Z and P, because they are vastly simpler mechanically compared to Terran. It's not asymmetric. For two races it's very easy. For one race its difficult. Your anecdotes are not evidence. I'm sorry but any one person trying to claim that their experience somehow makes balance complaints valid is hilarious. You might play the game of starcraft in a manner that suites other races more than Terran. Just because one random masters player says it, doesn't mean its true. | ||
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Iyerbeth
England2410 Posts
The thing though in this thread that has surprised me the most is the amount of people who seem to have no idea why the Queen buff happened. It's true, the match up was close to balanced stats wise at that point, but that has literally nothing to do with why they made that change, as they've said repeatedly. Blizzard felt like it was too easy to do something early game to a Zerg like a Hellion run by and too difficult (relatively speaking) to defend it. It literally had nothing to do with whether the match up as a whole was balanced, but rather, Blizzard's interpretation of the game in that moment. That said though, for the same reason as above, I think it's odd Blizzard chose to leave the Raven as is whilst also saying it needs further exploration. I think a lot of people see that unit could be more fun and simpler to use and maybe even to get in to play. | ||
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Phoenix2003
126 Posts
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omnic
United States188 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:29 pallad wrote: People that post in this thread should post own battle net account link.. that we all can see , what skill lv they are. 80% of post here sound like bronze-plat players.. its insane. I think that would be a wise thing to include in all balance related threads. | ||
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sertman
United States540 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:23 DebtSC2 wrote: Except its not asymmetric, its completely lopsided. I play P and Z and T all at the master level, all around 1100 pt in master. I play terran at least twice as much as the other races combined. It is orders of magnitude easier to win with Z and P, because they are vastly simpler mechanically compared to Terran. It's not asymmetric. For two races it's very easy. For one race its difficult. so you play all three races, have the same amount of points in master league with all three, and then turn around and say it's completely lopsided? shouldn't you have much less points with terran if that was the case? it's not about what's easier to do or not. you don't see baseball players debating whether it's harder to pitch or to hit, do you? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:39 sertman wrote: so you play all three races, have the same amount of points in master league with all three, and then turn around and say it's completely lopsided? shouldn't you have much less points with terran if that was the case? it's not about what's easier to do or not. you don't see baseball players debating whether it's harder to pitch or to hit, do you? WELL, he did say he plays twice as much terran, so you'd expect him to be much better/higher rated with terran. The fact that he's not, in his mind, is an indication that terran is more difficult. | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:39 sertman wrote: so you play all three races, have the same amount of points in master league with all three, and then turn around and say it's completely lopsided? shouldn't you have much less points with terran if that was the case? it's not about what's easier to do or not. you don't see baseball players debating whether it's harder to pitch or to hit, do you? He's clearly a bullshitter that is trying to use some invented rank to validate his opinion. Much like a vast majority of TL... I can't count how many time I've read in a balance or strategy thread with posts that started off with "xx Master level here" or "I am a 1700 Diamond Protoss and..." | ||
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DebtSC2
United States20 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:36 Wingblade wrote: Your anecdotes are not evidence. I'm sorry but any one person trying to claim that their experience somehow makes balance complaints valid is hilarious. You might play the game of starcraft in a manner that suites other races more than Terran. Just because one random masters player says it, doesn't mean its true. It would be nice if there was neat way to summarize why Terran is more difficult than the other two races, rather than using (as you correctly pointed out) flawed anecdotal evidence. If there was, I would certainly do it instead of trying to rely on the relatively weak arguments currently at my disposal. I can point out how Terran representation is lacking in all but the highest levels of play and the lowest levels of play. I can show statistics that clearly indicate a decline of foreign terrans, but success among the most skilled and practiced korean terrans. Alas, all of these are incomplete arguments. Nevertheless I doubt many pro players would disagree that Terran has more skills to perfect than the other two races. They benefit more from practice and are punished more severely for not practicing. I think the other two races should be brought in line, if not all three have substantial increases in their respective skill caps. Edit: 1100 pt Master is also nothing to give my arguments credence, I'm just saying where I'm coming from. 1100 pt master to pro is almost as large a gap as platinum to pro, so yeah. My rank isn't really supposed to justify what I'm saying. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:41 Dosey wrote: He's clearly a bullshitter that is trying to use some invented rank to validate his opinion. Much like a vast majority of TL... I can't count how many time I've read in a balance or strategy thread with posts that started off with "xx Master level here" or "I am a 1700 Diamond Protoss and..." For what it's worth, in strategy threads at least it's nice to let people know where you're coming from. A lot of the times, I see people open their posts with "I'm only in plat, so take this with a grain of salt, but here are my thoughts"-- it's just common courtesy. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:36 Iyerbeth wrote: On the principal of not changing things until they're sure they need to, good job Blizzard. The thing though in this thread that has surprised me the most is the amount of people who seem to have no idea why the Queen buff happened. It's true, the match up was close to balanced stats wise at that point, but that has literally nothing to do with why they made that change, as they've said repeatedly. Blizzard felt like it was too easy to do something early game to a Zerg like a Hellion run by and too difficult (relatively speaking) to defend it. Yes, it was and still is sooo difficult to get an Evolution Chamber/Spine/Queen wall to prevent Hellions from running in... The Queen range changed nothing in this regard. Zergs still need proper building placement—and still lose many drones to Hellions raids when failing to do so. | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:43 DebtSC2 wrote: It would be nice if there was neat way to summarize why Terran is more difficult than the other two races, rather than using (as you correctly pointed out) flawed anecdotal evidence. If there was, I would certainly do it instead of trying to rely on the relatively weak arguments currently at my disposal. I can point out how Terran representation is lacking in all but the highest levels of play and the lowest levels of play. I can show statistics that clearly indicate a decline of foreign terrans, but success among the most skilled and practiced korean terrans. Alas, all of these are incomplete arguments. Nevertheless I doubt many pro players would disagree that Terran has more skills to perfect than the other two races. They benefit more from practice and are punished more severely for not practicing. I think the other two races should be brought in line, if not all three have substantial increases in their respective skill caps. The funny thing is that if you were actually as proficient in all races as you claim to be, you would be able to give more than just anecdotal evidence. You would have stats on your climb as a Terran player and the decline as your other two races increased. No, you just say "I play more Terran. It's MOAR DIFFICULT!!!11!" | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:29 pallad wrote: People that post in this thread should post own battle net account link.. that we all can see , what skill lv they are. 80% of post here sound like bronze-plat players.. its insane. Maybe I missed it, but where did you post the link to your account? | ||
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bokchoi
Korea (South)9498 Posts
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omnic
United States188 Posts
On September 01 2012 03:40 Blazinghand wrote: WELL, he did say he plays twice as much terran, so you'd expect him to be much better/higher rated with terran. The fact that he's not, in his mind, is an indication that terran is more difficult. Too many variables still. He could naturally be better at zerg/protoss mechanics. The fact that he plays terran so much also gives him quite a large advantage over other terran players that he would face as Zerg or protoss. He could be playing zerg or protoss after going on a harsh losing streak as terran so his MMR has tanked. These types of variables that can easily be overlooked (and if I wasnt so pressed for time atm i'm sure I could come up with quite a few more easily.) make anecdotal evidence that his argument is based on anything but concrete. | ||
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