EPTDestiny and Root part ways - Page 128
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As emotionally invested as people are on this topic, TL rules still apply. That includes flaming and ad hominem attacks. | ||
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ShatterStar
United States40 Posts
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Sokrates
738 Posts
On August 31 2012 19:00 Lightspeaker wrote: On the second I never said anything about "children" but I do feel people are being absurdly idealistic in here. You cannot and will not change society as a whole and frankly it is absolutely none of your business what people find offensive and complain about. They are free to spend every minute of every day sending complaints if they like. The question is how companies react to said complaints, if they are groundless or irrelevant they can ignore them, but if something HAS happened and they DO care about how they are being represented they take steps. As I think it was CatZ stated earlier in the thread sponsorship has been hard to come by because companies have walked away from them because of issues like this, because some companies will not tolerate this kind of attitude. And frankly I personally think that nobody has any right to demand that they start doing so, its their decision and their money to sponsor whom they wish. We are a community here and we should tell people in our community how harmfull this kind of behavior is. It is harmful to esports, to the players and to the community itself if people are pressuring sponsors by emailing them about this kind of stuff. You may dislike destiny for this and you would have a lot of reasons for doing so but just stop emailing the sponsors. Some people are doing this because they hate him and are lowlifes that want to see him get kicked out of every team, well you cannot change this kind of people, even though they are harming the community with their actions. But there are acutally people that think it is a "good" thing to message sponsors. Mb we can make this kind of people think twice. On August 31 2012 19:05 ShatterStar wrote: If he wasn't suing for financial loss what would he sue for? Injunctive relief? It's not like Bluetea is still posting things. Ah so in conclusion you are saying if a person doesnt have any financial loss by having his/her twitteraccount hacked and private pictures posted it is not against the law? | ||
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transcendent one
251 Posts
On August 31 2012 11:41 KillingVector wrote: Causing him to lose a teammate (I'm not quite sure its fair to credit her as the sole cause, but let's forget that) isn't reason for him to publicly insult her. Its a decision made by his team. Sure, it hurts, and he can curse her in private as much as he wants. However, it is not appropriate for him to publicly humiliate her. His suspension, again, is a team decision. It is also the fact that he is involved with the incident that makes it so much more inappropriate for him to publicly humiliate her. A copy of a chat log is damning, but doesn't amount to her insulting him. And I think the idea that she leaked the conversation are accusations he made in this forum (maybe put forward as wild guesses by people before him, but he's certainly a witness to this whole thing and carries more relevance) without any opportunity for her rebuttal. That is a completely different taboo. people are allowed to think that other people are ugly. there's nothing inappropriate about it. people forget that when Sheth left korea for personal reasons, this happened when he was still in FXO, people were insulting him in the thread here, about his looks, hair bodyweight, just because he turned down a code a spot. this was about Sheth, who was just as likeable back then as he is now, and who now is a liquid member.... and noobdy, not even the mods had a problem with that. and now this idiotic white-knighting do gooding happens, we see picture of a random chick (who caused a ton of shit and misery) and people are not allowed to think she's ugly? idiots running to sponsors? WTF? how stupid can people be? no fucking body here cares about a stranger, hypocrites are just happy to cause shit and run their mouth. | ||
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Stonedviper
74 Posts
On August 31 2012 15:52 centinel4 wrote: everyone is focusing on Destiny and the "ugly" girl. the real villain in this story is the as-s-ho-le that leaked the conversation to her. fkn betrayer. that is the one that destiny should go and punch in the face for being such a p-uss-y traitor. I trash talk the whole time about girls. Girls do the same about guys. this scaled way out of proportion. The Ahole that leaked the story is the only person with morals in this whole story...lol. | ||
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Sokrates
738 Posts
On August 31 2012 19:20 Stonedviper wrote: The Ahole that leaked the story is the only person with morals in this whole story...lol. Yeah a person betraying the trust of other people and fuck over another two has actually really high moral standards. But maybe she just made that up to fuck over the trust in the team. She did hack his twitter etc. so mb she also did take some looks in destinys private stuff before this acutally happened. | ||
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ShatterStar
United States40 Posts
On August 31 2012 19:06 Sokrates wrote: Ah so in conclusion you are saying if a person doesnt have any financial loss by having his/her twitteraccount hacked and private pictures posted it is not against the law? I llike how your conclusion ads an entire clause I didn't say. Anyway there is more you must consider. Suing someone isn't free, it requires the expense of time and money. If you aren't going to receive money from the other side (he'd have to prove a financial loss in order to do that) then you're just incurring an expense to get what? Maybe an injunction that says Bluetea can't post to your twitter anymore...a lot of good that does. | ||
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algorithm0r
Canada486 Posts
Heard it hear first.... WB Destiny... It's like you never left. | ||
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Sokrates
738 Posts
On August 31 2012 19:27 ShatterStar wrote: Ah so in conclusion you are saying if a person doesnt have any financial loss by having his/her twitteraccount hacked and private pictures posted it is not against the law? I llike how your conclusion ads an entire clause I didn't say. Anyway there is more you must consider. Suing someone isn't free, it requires the expense of time and money. If you aren't going to receive money from the other side (he'd have to prove a financial loss in order to do that) then you're just incurring an expense to get what? Maybe an injunction that says Bluetea can't post to your twitter anymore...a lot of good that does. Is it so hard to see that you cannot just simply hack someones twitter and post private picture/information to the public? It is not about what destiny gets out of it, it is mb simply that fact that bluetea could be in some serious trouble for what she did. You are basically saying that all the consequences someone faces for hacking other peoples private information is an injunction for not doing so anymore? So if i steal stuff from a shop all i get is an injunction to stop shoplifting?? :D | ||
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BadBinky
Finland649 Posts
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ShatterStar
United States40 Posts
On August 31 2012 19:32 Sokrates wrote: Is it so hard to see that you cannot just simply hack someones twitter and post private picture/information to the public? It is not about what destiny gets out of it, it is mb simply that fact that bluetea could be in some serious trouble for what she did. You are basically saying that all the consequences someone faces for hacking other peoples private information is an injunction for not doing so anymore? So if i steal stuff from a shop all i get is an injunction to stop shoplifting?? :D No, we have different punishments for different types of crime. Disseminating information and theft are different crimes. The trouble Bluetea could be under would probably relate more to her use of the internet at her school. When someone sues for slander/libel/etc you get a different effect. If I tell you something in private, and then you later tell a lot of other people that you shouldn't of, you don't go to jail. I can however sue for slander, or libel depending. If Bluetea had gone into the twitter account (and it is important that it wasn't "hacked" if she had the information, she just did so without permission, hacking would cut harder against her) and defrauded Destiny by signing into contracts, or trying to pretend she was him, then he'd have a case for fraud. | ||
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Sokrates
738 Posts
On August 31 2012 19:39 ShatterStar wrote: No, we have different punishments for different types of crime. Disseminating information and theft are different crimes. The trouble Bluetea could be under would probably relate more to her use of the internet at her school. When someone sues for slander/libel/etc you get a different effect. If I tell you something in private, and then you later tell a lot of other people that you shouldn't of, you don't go to jail. I can however sue for slander, or libel depending. If Bluetea had gone into the twitter account (and it is important that it wasn't "hacked" if she had the information, she just did so without permission, hacking would cut harder against her) and defrauded Destiny by signing into contracts, or trying to pretend she was him, then he'd have a case for fraud. "I changed his email password, which enabled me to change his Twitter and Skype passwords." You cannot simply (walk into mordor) change passwords of another persons private stuff and the post pictures of his dick. That is a fucking crime, so hard to understand? You cannot walk into a shop and steal the money and walk away. Even if its a different crime its the same principle : The state punishes you for commiting crimes. Destiny might not get out money of this because he cannot prove he had financial losses but the state punishes you for commiting a crime. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On August 31 2012 19:00 Lightspeaker wrote: On your first point: I'm not sure if you're being deliberately silly or not there. People complaining were not yelling loudly and stamping their feet that they wanted change about the whole world. They were actually very precise about what they did and its because of that that something changed. They took what they felt were very real grievances (I'm not going to debate if they were or not) about a specific person who had done a specific thing (or several things) to somebody who could do something about it. And those people talked to others who made an emotionless business decision to cut him loose because they felt said person was a liability. That is very different to demanding that the whole way sponsorship works and human nature works by yelling on a forum. If you can think of a way to get businesses to ignore complaints about who they sponsor then feel free to try; but I think you'll find you're fighting the whole concept of sponsorship as a business model. They cannot simply ignore the image people are bringing to their company through sponsorship deals and sponsorship is not a charity. On the second I never said anything about "children" but I do feel people are being absurdly idealistic in here. You cannot and will not change society as a whole and frankly it is absolutely none of your business what people find offensive and complain about. They are free to spend every minute of every day sending complaints if they like. The question is how companies react to said complaints, if they are groundless or irrelevant they can ignore them, but if something HAS happened and they DO care about how they are being represented they take steps. As I think it was CatZ stated earlier in the thread sponsorship has been hard to come by because companies have walked away from them because of issues like this, because some companies will not tolerate this kind of attitude. And frankly I personally think that nobody has any right to demand that they start doing so, its their decision and their money to sponsor whom they wish. Cliffnotes: If some people in the community are unable to tell the difference between a private and a public matter and/or a minor and a major incident, we should just sit back and do nothing. Seriously, the only idealistic people in this thread are the ones trying to impose a ridiculously high moral standard for all community figures (or perhaps just a select few). Making some kind of "everyone are free to complain about what they want" argument is silly. Of course they are, but I'm free to call them out on their harmful behaviour. We need to realize that "sponsorship as a business model" in a new industry is very fragile. Most companies don't know the scene and when tons of negative feedback is given, they're going to have to act on this information because it's all they got. Sponsors will crap their pants at the sight of the shitstorm just landing in their inbox and take measures against it, whether or not it's "groundless". It may also easily lead to them not sponsoring more teams and/or not extending their contract with their current team. | ||
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-_-Quails
Australia796 Posts
On August 31 2012 19:39 ShatterStar wrote: No, we have different punishments for different types of crime. Disseminating information and theft are different crimes. The trouble Bluetea could be under would probably relate more to her use of the internet at her school. When someone sues for slander/libel/etc you get a different effect. If I tell you something in private, and then you later tell a lot of other people that you shouldn't of, you don't go to jail. I can however sue for slander, or libel depending. If Bluetea had gone into the twitter account (and it is important that it wasn't "hacked" if she had the information, she just did so without permission, hacking would cut harder against her) and defrauded Destiny by signing into contracts, or trying to pretend she was him, then he'd have a case for fraud. I said that I was done with this thread, but this really does bear restating: If you say something true, you have not committed libel or slander. It does not matter how much the damage the statement causes to its subject, if the statement is true then it is not defamatory. You cannot sue someone for libel or slander if they repeat something you have said to them. You would only be able to sue them if you could demonstrate that you had not said what it was claimed that you said. Any trouble Blue Tea may face would relate to and solely to whether or not her use of legally gained login details for an unauthorised purpose was itself legal. Not a lawyer. | ||
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ShatterStar
United States40 Posts
-------------- Sokrates: I think I'm being trolled. After having your analogy to leaking information being the same as stealing physical items from a store taken apart you take issue with a single line? Do you know what qualifies as hacking? Gaining access via interdependent accounts is still very different from breaking into an account you had no information for. If you had an account that had an authenticator that sent a password to your phone, and I had your phone and received the password, have I hacked you? I think you're arguing for arguing sake now. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On August 31 2012 19:47 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Cliffnotes: If some people in the community are unable to tell the difference between a private and a public matter and/or a minor and a major incident, we should just sit back and do nothing. Seriously, the only idealistic people in this thread are the ones trying to impose a ridiculously high moral standard for all community figures (or perhaps just a select few). Making some kind of "everyone are free to complain about what they want" argument is silly. Of course they are, but I'm free to call them out on their harmful behaviour. We need to realize that "sponsorship as a business model" in a new industry is very fragile. Most companies don't know the scene and when tons of negative feedback is given, they're going to have to act on this information because it's all they got. Sponsors will crap their pants at the sight of the shitstorm just landing in their inbox and take measures against it, whether or not it's "groundless". It may also easily lead to them not sponsoring more teams and/or not extending their contract with their current team. Well said man. People are free to go and complain about bugger all and take out their ire in that way, we are free to consider it an unproductive endeavour. Seems a reasonable trade-off | ||
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Urasim
United States83 Posts
On August 31 2012 19:39 ShatterStar wrote: No, we have different punishments for different types of crime. Disseminating information and theft are different crimes. The trouble Bluetea could be under would probably relate more to her use of the internet at her school. When someone sues for slander/libel/etc you get a different effect. If I tell you something in private, and then you later tell a lot of other people that you shouldn't of, you don't go to jail. I can however sue for slander, or libel depending. If Bluetea had gone into the twitter account (and it is important that it wasn't "hacked" if she had the information, she just did so without permission, hacking would cut harder against her) and defrauded Destiny by signing into contracts, or trying to pretend she was him, then he'd have a case for fraud. You can get jail time for hacking twitter... http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2001-03-09-coolio.htm That is just one chase where a kid thought it would be funny to put images of a drugged Donald duck on a anti-drug site and defacing some other images. If Bluetea DID actually HACK she can be in some serious trouble. There is always some confusion about the word "hack". Getting the password from Destiny is NOT hacking. Getting the password by looking over Destiny's shoulder is NOT hacking. Using a fake e-mail to trick Destiny in sending his password to her is NOT hacking. Using programs to break into twitter IS hacking. Also... Why is this thread still here and not locked? Almost every page is filled with garbage posts that are worse than the actually offense Destiny and Bluetea commited... I would expect more from teamliquid. Is this site turning into a playground for TMZ junkies? This sort of discussion should be kept at reddit where it belongs. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On August 31 2012 19:59 Urasim wrote: You can get jail time for hacking twitter... http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2001-03-09-coolio.htm That is just one chase where a kid thought it would be funny to put images of a drugged Donald duck on a anti-drug site and defacing some other images. If Bluetea DID actually HACK she can be in some serious trouble. There is always some confusion about the word "hack". Getting the password from Destiny is NOT hacking. Getting the password by looking over Destiny's shoulder is NOT hacking. Using a fake e-mail to trick Destiny in sending his password to her is NOT hacking. Using programs to break into twitter IS hacking. Also... Why is this thread still here and not locked? Almost every page is filled with garbage posts that are worse than the actually offense Destiny and Bluetea commited... I would expect more from teamliquid. Is this site turning into a playground for TMZ junkies? This sort of discussion should be kept at reddit where it belongs. I would consider it from a 'fair use' kind of direction. To use a crude example, if I give my friend my keys to pop over and retrieve something he'd left there, and he later robs my house he isn't immune from prosecution because I gave him my keys voluntarily. There's a discrepancy between the expectation of what the item (in this case passwords) will be used to accomplish , and what they were used for. It's all moot anyway, I highly, highly doubt Destiny will go down any kind of legal route, given that among other things it would drag up questionable things he's done in the past. | ||
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Pusekatten
Norway234 Posts
On August 31 2012 19:59 Urasim wrote: You can get jail time for hacking twitter... http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2001-03-09-coolio.htm That is just one chase where a kid thought it would be funny to put images of a drugged Donald duck on a anti-drug site and defacing some other images. If Bluetea DID actually HACK she can be in some serious trouble. There is always some confusion about the word "hack". Getting the password from Destiny is NOT hacking. Getting the password by looking over Destiny's shoulder is NOT hacking. Using a fake e-mail to trick Destiny in sending his password to her is NOT hacking. Using programs to break into twitter IS hacking. Also... Why is this thread still here and not locked? Almost every page is filled with garbage posts that are worse than the actually offense Destiny and Bluetea commited... I would expect more from teamliquid. Is this site turning into a playground for TMZ junkies? This sort of discussion should be kept at reddit where it belongs. She still changed the password and impersonated him... | ||
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Sokrates
738 Posts
On August 31 2012 19:49 ShatterStar wrote: Well as I understand it, I may be wrong, she posted nude pictures of him on his twitter? While nude pictures aren't "false" they could be damaging to his persona and his work relations. So you can sue for the damage to your persona. -------------- Sokrates: I think I'm being trolled. After having your analogy to leaking information being the same as stealing physical items from a store taken apart you take issue with a single line? Do you know what qualifies as hacking? Gaining access via interdependent accounts is still very different from breaking into an account you had no information for. If you had an account that had an authenticator that sent a password to your phone, and I had your phone and received the password, have I hacked you? I think you're arguing for arguing sake now. She gained access to his twitter/skype account by altering his passwords without permission. Mb it is not hacking but it is still illegal. If you give me the password to your email for whatever reason i cannot abuse your emailinformation to gain access to your other private stuff like twitter/skype unless you allow me to. | ||
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Urasim
United States83 Posts
On August 31 2012 20:05 Pusekatten wrote: She still changed the password and impersonated him... Which is a lighter sentence involving compensation and/or community service with no jail time. That's if he wants to press charges. | ||
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