EPT[D]New Race: A Korean Terran. - Page 4
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Leyra
United States1222 Posts
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On August 27 2012 11:32 Leyra wrote: Random question, whats the korean food(I guess some kind of sauce?) they were talking about at the beginning? Som jong? or something? Can't tell What they're saying T_T, totally wanna check it out. 쌈장 Ssam Jang, speaking of which there's also  SSamJang | ||
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Leyra
United States1222 Posts
Thank you! <3 Time to see look for recipes! :D | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
1) Koreans are better, yes. That's not surprising, players over there spend a lot more time and effort; there's not really as much of a community that "casually games" in SC2. 2) Terran is a difficult race, particularly in the lower levels. But it's not harder or easier or better or worse than the other races. All the races have their own difficulties when macroing and playing at a high level; it's up to the players to develop their macro skills the best they can. That being said, a terran with far superior macro skills DOES beat an all-inning protoss or zerg. Look at yourself before blaming the game everywhere. 3) Cheese and all-in builds on ladder are specifically designed for finding timings and/or relieving stress. LastShadow plays some kind of cheese every 3 or 4 games just to see how his opponent responds and how he can adjust things and hit a stronger timing, etc. Playing cheese is NEVER a "good strategy" on ladder. | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
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dream-_-
United States1857 Posts
Lets take a look back a good 8-9 years, and try and get some parallels from the older BW scene and the one that we have today. Back in the days of Korean dominance (real Korean dominance, like in BW when the top 50 players in the world all had Korean flags). Korea was the only place that had a developed scene, and it was the only place where people could actually live off BW. Foreigners with amazing results (mondragon, testie, white-ra etc), made a couple hundred a month. The mid tier foreign "pros" made nothing. BW wasn't a realistic job outside of Korea, and the skill level required to go to Korea (only to be essentially treated like a slave in the Kespa run pro houses) was amazingly high. We are talking a game that had already been developed for a lot of years. The incentive to be "good" in the foreign BW scene was marginal, but still you had some players such as Mondragon or Pj who could practice hard enough to regularly take games off some of the best players in the world (I would relate their skill level to someone like Destiny, maybe Goody, a player who can beat the best players in the world, but won't ever win a GSL). In those days it was easy to say "Ya, Koreans are much better because foreigners have no incentive to practice." Right now there is more money outside of Korea than inside, and players can easily make a rather large living playing this game. Motivation is no longer a factor. If you tell me that the Koreans are practicing harder than the foreigners, I won't believe it. There is no reason for anyone in the foreign scene to have a lack of motivation, be it Naniwa, axslav, or the aspiring pro gamer making his way through Diamond. The other argument I have seen a lot is that Korean players use a lot more "all ins" and are less about the pure macro style. While I agree that to be an all around tournament player, having finely crafted all ins and cheeses is important, it isn't a necessity at a lower level. In fact, in BW it was often said that Foreigners were the ones limiting themselves by using too many all ins and cheeses. Anyone remember how North American zergs used to play? The mass 2 base hydra timings and constant ling all ins? All off an extremely low econ and 2 bases? Anyone remember playing against Lzgamer in BW? Catz? Or any Latin American zerg for that matter? It isn't a matter of if your a macro player, or if your a cheeser, you can become top level with both. How many people have we seen show up in the pro scene and be labeled as a pure cheese player only to later transition into a heavy macro style? No, I don't believe it is a certain mindset or that Koreans have and others don't. I also don't believe that it is an issue of motivation or effort. It simply comes down to sample size. If it is true what Mana says (I find it might be a slight overstatement), that means a high diamond is equal to a high master on EU. That means that a mid master is most likely around the skill of a low GM. How many mid masters players do you think there are on KR? 10,000? A lot more than the 200 players on EU in GM. 10,000 vs 200. That means that ALL THINGS EVEN, for every one player with the extreme drive and motivation that it takes to be a top player that comes from EU, you will have 50 Koreans. Obviously these numbers are a complete spur of the moment representation that isn't giving a perfect example, but it is a representation. There is also the fact that top Europeans and Americans play against other players from their region for the most part, but that has already been covered. | ||
ref4
2933 Posts
marine marauder hellion siege tank ghost I mean come on, the concept of splitting marines against banelings was first demonstrated by Koreans, marines, splitting and cost-efficiently counter units that are meant to hard-counter them Also, you can squeeze your marine & marauder in between mineral patches and kill 10X the zerglings and zealots they normally would. And Koreans have shown again and again they have the best unit control, period. So much so that whenever we see the likes of Taeja, MKP, MVP and even lower tiers of K-Terrans (Keen, STC etc.) play we expect to see them split their forces with perfect control. Add that on top of their insane macro you get a breed of Terrans that are just miles above NA & EU | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
As to why terran seems to be so dominant in korea? The answer to that is, it has always been like that. You could argue that the most famous BW pros were all Terran as well. | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
i can't speak for high masters KR but KR diamond/master compared NA diamond/master doesn't have anything particularly special, they're just better overall players. it's not more cheese or allin, they just execute standard builds very crisply and focus on mechanics. KR is much more aggressive and use newer builds whereas it takes a while for builds used in GSL to become popular on NA, but that's about it.. | ||
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
On August 27 2012 15:04 rauk wrote: mana's exaggerating of course, i'm master KR terran but right now im low masters na. i can't speak for high masters KR but KR diamond/master compared NA diamond/master doesn't have anything particularly special, they're just better overall players. it's not more cheese or allin, they just execute standard builds very crisply and focus on mechanics. KR is much more aggressive and use newer builds whereas it takes a while for builds used in GSL to become popular on NA, but that's about it.. if you are masters KR then you should have no problem getting gm on NA because im High Masters NA but I barely break top 50 diamond on KR... | ||
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No0n
United States355 Posts
On August 27 2012 15:21 LgNKami wrote: if you are masters KR then you should have no problem getting gm on NA because im High Masters NA but I barely break top 50 diamond on KR... Yeah but if he plays on KR more he won't be GM on NA. Anyway, I think the main reason is that their skill density on the server is much higher compared to NA and EU and they use the builds that they see in GSL quite a bit sooner than the other regions because they're not afraid to copy even the aggressive builds then you get the KR scenario. The foreign scene likes to make a huge fuss about cheese and all ins etc. but never try to think that maybe if you do this there actually IS a way to make it non all in or this could be used to hide an expo if I delayed this or that. Things like that I think is the main reason KR server is ahead of us. Mainly the copying GSL builds. Edit 1: Just forgot to finish a sentence '-___- | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On August 27 2012 15:21 LgNKami wrote: if you are masters KR then you should have no problem getting gm on NA because im High Masters NA but I barely break top 50 diamond on KR... well, http://kr.battle.net/sc2/ko/profile/768782/2/天地任我行/ladder/lastseason/leagues and my na account http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/945723/1/ying/ haven't played on kr this season because i stopped playing for d3 and i don't feel like losing 100 games in a row, but i was in masters kr since last december i think | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
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ThePlayer33
Australia2378 Posts
the macro hotkey is similar broodwar, where all 3 races needed extensive use of multiple hotkeys. in sc2 protoss have warpgate tech(1 hotkey) and zerg have MBS which helps with multiple hatcheries. terrans get MBS but rax,fact,port are still separate. deathball is also prevalent for zerg and protoss, while terran have tanks which a purely area control based | ||
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
In reality the only significant differences between Bronze to low Masters Koreans and US/EU players are that some of the mechanics from Brood War might have transitioned over and that the sample size will be smaller. Other than that, the only significant difference is at the very highest end. No, Koreans are not more intelligent, smarter, or better at Starcraft than we are. They just have a ten year old infrastructure dedicated to producing top quality gamers. What's more, the so called "best players" are in almost constant flux and in the top 50, there are at least 15-20 players outside of Korea DESPITE the disadvantages. | ||
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n0ise
3452 Posts
As for the builds, you just try stuff, but it's not what matters that much. I was doing cloak banshees standard in tvz a year ago (hipster anyone?), won against GMs consistently, still don't have an mlg trophy cos I was practicing against high-masters / GMs for a few hours / day, they were practicing vs best of the best for 9-10 hrs / day there's no genetic/magic etc, more like a cultural drive to do as good as you can (imo) | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On August 27 2012 11:13 dynwar7 wrote: All this posts about Terran requiring multitask, micro, being aggressive, am I wrong if I say these only apply to bio? Since mech, not saying it is easy, because it is not, but with mech you cannot be as aggressive, and don't need so much micro. So when you say being aggressive, micro etc it only applies to bio right? Not at all. While mech isn't as micro intensive as bio it still can require a lot of multitasking and you have to be aggressive with it, especially against Zerg. In TvZ you see a lot of hellion harass and even things like Thor drops. So mech can be micro intensive, but the main skill you need for it is positional awareness and decision making (something I think top korean terrans have a lot of). | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 27 2012 16:33 Evangelist wrote: Confirmation bias ITT. In reality the only significant differences between Bronze to low Masters Koreans and US/EU players are that some of the mechanics from Brood War might have transitioned over and that the sample size will be smaller. Other than that, the only significant difference is at the very highest end. No, Koreans are not more intelligent, smarter, or better at Starcraft than we are. They just have a ten year old infrastructure dedicated to producing top quality gamers. What's more, the so called "best players" are in almost constant flux and in the top 50, there are at least 15-20 players outside of Korea DESPITE the disadvantages. You should seriously play on the korean server. Play a gold/plat/diamond korean player and then play an NA/EU gold/plat/diamond and you will see a huge difference in skill. It is not people over exagerating when they say the korean players even at lower levels are skilled, especially compared to the same ranks on NA/EU. | ||
monk
United States8476 Posts
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