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On August 27 2012 06:42 Shinespark wrote:
Didn't Blizzard said they would announce something? Really timely, Blizzard
Are we talking about the release of HotS? hah jk
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On August 27 2012 06:42 Shinespark wrote:
Didn't Blizzard said they would announce something? Really timely, Blizzard
Well... You know Blizzard. They will make an announcement soon. Hopefully it will not be too late.
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On August 27 2012 06:38 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 06:37 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 06:33 rd wrote:On August 27 2012 06:30 blade55555 wrote:On August 27 2012 06:27 Jormundr wrote:On August 27 2012 06:22 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 06:20 rd wrote:On August 27 2012 06:12 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 06:05 rd wrote:On August 27 2012 05:50 Salazarz wrote:
[quote]
I'm pretty sure Coca, Byun, and Naniwa (to name a few) might disagree with you whether eSF / Gom have a 'sanction tool' or not. The thing about KeSPA 'refusing to play in GSL flat out' is bullshit. All they did was they won't play in season 4 - there is no real reason to read further into that. First of all, ESF and GOM are separate entities. Second of all, the players you listed were either "sanctioned" by their team, or by GOM. ESF had nothing to do with either. Also, stop comparing ESF to KeSPA as they are different kinds of representative bodies. One represents players, the other represents sponsors. Pretty EZ to understand. Apparently you need to read further into the consequences of 'not playing in season 4.' Yeah, just like OGN and KeSPA are separate entities. As for your second 'point', it doesn't really change anything. The point is players do what they are told by the people in charge; sure you could argue that eSF is managed by people who are closer to e-sports etcetc, but the fact remains that players do what they are told, just like under KeSPA. The different between the two organizations isn't nearly as big as you seem to believe - eSF is pretty much a baby KeSPA. I never argued OGN and KeSPA weren't separate, and I sympathize with OGN that they're the one losing in all of this. But I hold KeSPA responsible for it. ESF isn't remotely as powerful as KeSPA when it comes to how they can discipline their players. ESF doesn't hold the priorities of the sponsors above the players. ESF doesn't hold the licenses of their players which they can take away for disobeying a ban and completely pull the rug from their competitive career. ESF can't really force their players to do anything as the player could just leave and find greener grass. Theres a huge difference. What makes you think eSF doesn't hold priorities of the sponsors above the players? In fact, the most recent events at WCS prove the opposite. KeSPA can't force their players to do anything as the player could just leave and find greener grass, too - what makes you think otherwise? Wrong. As former KeSPA players they would need a progaming license to play in KeSPA events. If they leave they lose their license, and they never get to play in KeSPA events again (OS2L, this "big project", SC2 Proleague). Whereas players who leave eSF teams can still play in GSL and GSTL (Provided they move to a team that is in the GSTL or partnered with one which is). Yup this, I am not sure why people don't realize that the players on the kespa teams can't really leave or they would be screwing themselves over. Not being able to play in anything kespa related and wouldn't get paid as much on a different team compared to their kespa teams. That, and they have much better salaries too. They have everything to lose and little to gain by leaving. This might be true for the BW stars. For the B-teamers the problem is nobody wants to hire them until they show promising skill or a fanbase, And how is that different for eSF B-teamers?
Well, it was more to complete the facts than to critizize KeSPa in this last posting, I gues the only difference is that the eSF players can try to make a name for themselves in a ton of small tournaments, as well as trying to qualify for the GSL. While the BW b-teamers I assume get little chance for televised matches. Also, could the players in Kespa be part of a weaker team (like this shield,join,by tags imply) compete in the top leagues if they wanted?
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There is no difference in that sense. The difference lies in the acceptance of playing for Kespa and also getting that hands on experience of the highest level of play. It is much like an intern at a major company.[/QUOTE]
More tournaments like what, Zotac cup? It's not like a B-teamer is going to fly out to MLG or something.
You do realize that B-teamers on KeSPA teams practice with the stars, get far better coaching support, participate in OSL just like eSF guys play in GSL, and also usually get an opportunity to play in Proleague at least now and then? They also get a salary, which is more than can be said about most eSF players, and have better housing, as well as freebies from their sponsors and pretty nice vacations during offseason etc.
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On August 27 2012 06:38 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 06:37 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 06:33 rd wrote:On August 27 2012 06:30 blade55555 wrote:On August 27 2012 06:27 Jormundr wrote:On August 27 2012 06:22 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 06:20 rd wrote:On August 27 2012 06:12 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 06:05 rd wrote:On August 27 2012 05:50 Salazarz wrote:
[quote]
I'm pretty sure Coca, Byun, and Naniwa (to name a few) might disagree with you whether eSF / Gom have a 'sanction tool' or not. The thing about KeSPA 'refusing to play in GSL flat out' is bullshit. All they did was they won't play in season 4 - there is no real reason to read further into that. First of all, ESF and GOM are separate entities. Second of all, the players you listed were either "sanctioned" by their team, or by GOM. ESF had nothing to do with either. Also, stop comparing ESF to KeSPA as they are different kinds of representative bodies. One represents players, the other represents sponsors. Pretty EZ to understand. Apparently you need to read further into the consequences of 'not playing in season 4.' Yeah, just like OGN and KeSPA are separate entities. As for your second 'point', it doesn't really change anything. The point is players do what they are told by the people in charge; sure you could argue that eSF is managed by people who are closer to e-sports etcetc, but the fact remains that players do what they are told, just like under KeSPA. The different between the two organizations isn't nearly as big as you seem to believe - eSF is pretty much a baby KeSPA. I never argued OGN and KeSPA weren't separate, and I sympathize with OGN that they're the one losing in all of this. But I hold KeSPA responsible for it. ESF isn't remotely as powerful as KeSPA when it comes to how they can discipline their players. ESF doesn't hold the priorities of the sponsors above the players. ESF doesn't hold the licenses of their players which they can take away for disobeying a ban and completely pull the rug from their competitive career. ESF can't really force their players to do anything as the player could just leave and find greener grass. Theres a huge difference. What makes you think eSF doesn't hold priorities of the sponsors above the players? In fact, the most recent events at WCS prove the opposite. KeSPA can't force their players to do anything as the player could just leave and find greener grass, too - what makes you think otherwise? Wrong. As former KeSPA players they would need a progaming license to play in KeSPA events. If they leave they lose their license, and they never get to play in KeSPA events again (OS2L, this "big project", SC2 Proleague). Whereas players who leave eSF teams can still play in GSL and GSTL (Provided they move to a team that is in the GSTL or partnered with one which is). Yup this, I am not sure why people don't realize that the players on the kespa teams can't really leave or they would be screwing themselves over. Not being able to play in anything kespa related and wouldn't get paid as much on a different team compared to their kespa teams. That, and they have much better salaries too. They have everything to lose and little to gain by leaving. This might be true for the BW stars. For the B-teamers the problem is nobody wants to hire them until they show promising skill or a fanbase, And how is that different for eSF B-teamers?
Esf b-teamers can go to gsl qualifiers, osl qualifiers, korean online tournaments. Kespa b-teamers can't.
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On August 27 2012 06:46 Salazarz wrote:
More tournaments like what, Zotac cup? It's not like a B-teamer is going to fly out to MLG or something.
You do realize that B-teamers on KeSPA teams practice with the stars, get far better coaching support, participate in OSL just like eSF guys play in GSL, and also usually get an opportunity to play in Proleague at least now and then? They also get a salary, which is more than can be said about most eSF players, and have better housing, as well as freebies from their sponsors and pretty nice vacations during offseason etc.
Actually, someone in the know please fill me in on this. Is eSF teams nearly as poor as it has been described here nowadays? There's at least a few teams which have made decisions/actions that shows that they aren't broke.
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On August 27 2012 06:46 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +There is no difference in that sense. The difference lies in the acceptance of playing for Kespa and also getting that hands on experience of the highest level of play. It is much like an intern at a major company. More tournaments like what, Zotac cup? It's not like a B-teamer is going to fly out to MLG or something. You do realize that B-teamers on KeSPA teams practice with the stars, get far better coaching support, participate in OSL just like eSF guys play in GSL, and also usually get an opportunity to play in Proleague at least now and then? They also get a salary, which is more than can be said about most eSF players, and have better housing, as well as freebies from their sponsors and pretty nice vacations during offseason etc.
How do you know that? I'm pretty sure you are wrong about kespa B teamer.
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On August 27 2012 06:44 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 06:38 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 06:37 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 06:33 rd wrote:On August 27 2012 06:30 blade55555 wrote:On August 27 2012 06:27 Jormundr wrote:On August 27 2012 06:22 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 06:20 rd wrote:On August 27 2012 06:12 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 06:05 rd wrote:
[quote]
First of all, ESF and GOM are separate entities. Second of all, the players you listed were either "sanctioned" by their team, or by GOM. ESF had nothing to do with either. Also, stop comparing ESF to KeSPA as they are different kinds of representative bodies. One represents players, the other represents sponsors. Pretty EZ to understand.
Apparently you need to read further into the consequences of 'not playing in season 4.' Yeah, just like OGN and KeSPA are separate entities. As for your second 'point', it doesn't really change anything. The point is players do what they are told by the people in charge; sure you could argue that eSF is managed by people who are closer to e-sports etcetc, but the fact remains that players do what they are told, just like under KeSPA. The different between the two organizations isn't nearly as big as you seem to believe - eSF is pretty much a baby KeSPA. I never argued OGN and KeSPA weren't separate, and I sympathize with OGN that they're the one losing in all of this. But I hold KeSPA responsible for it. ESF isn't remotely as powerful as KeSPA when it comes to how they can discipline their players. ESF doesn't hold the priorities of the sponsors above the players. ESF doesn't hold the licenses of their players which they can take away for disobeying a ban and completely pull the rug from their competitive career. ESF can't really force their players to do anything as the player could just leave and find greener grass. Theres a huge difference. What makes you think eSF doesn't hold priorities of the sponsors above the players? In fact, the most recent events at WCS prove the opposite. KeSPA can't force their players to do anything as the player could just leave and find greener grass, too - what makes you think otherwise? Wrong. As former KeSPA players they would need a progaming license to play in KeSPA events. If they leave they lose their license, and they never get to play in KeSPA events again (OS2L, this "big project", SC2 Proleague). Whereas players who leave eSF teams can still play in GSL and GSTL (Provided they move to a team that is in the GSTL or partnered with one which is). Yup this, I am not sure why people don't realize that the players on the kespa teams can't really leave or they would be screwing themselves over. Not being able to play in anything kespa related and wouldn't get paid as much on a different team compared to their kespa teams. That, and they have much better salaries too. They have everything to lose and little to gain by leaving. This might be true for the BW stars. For the B-teamers the problem is nobody wants to hire them until they show promising skill or a fanbase, And how is that different for eSF B-teamers? Well, it was more to complete the facts than to critizize KeSPa in this last posting, I gues the only difference is that the eSF players can try to make a name for themselves in a ton of small tournaments, as well as trying to qualify for the GSL. While the BW b-teamers I assume get little chance for televised matches. Also, could the players in Kespa be part of a weaker team (like this shield,join,by tags imply) compete in the top leagues if they wanted?
See, you're talking about something you have no idea about, so I really don't know why do you feel qualified to pass on judgements on the way KeSPA operates or which organization is better.
Sure, eSF B-teamers can play in stuff like Zotac cups or Korean weeklies - but it's not like you make a name for yourself by winning these. GSL and GSTL are literally the only ways for eSF players to make a breakthrough.
It is virtually the same for KeSPA B-teamers. They don't have online cups, but they do have salaries - even if they aren't very high. They do get to play in OSL, as well as get fielded in PL if they come up with a good strategy for a specific map, or coaches just feel like they can afford fielding a weaker player to give them some experience in the booth.
What you call 'weaker teams' aren't real teams but rather amateurs. In BW, amateurs couldn't participate in major tournaments (although there minor leagues for these, we just don't really know much about it cus nobody cared about that lol), in SC2... well, most amateurs are now on eSF teams.
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On August 27 2012 06:49 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 06:46 Salazarz wrote:There is no difference in that sense. The difference lies in the acceptance of playing for Kespa and also getting that hands on experience of the highest level of play. It is much like an intern at a major company. More tournaments like what, Zotac cup? It's not like a B-teamer is going to fly out to MLG or something. You do realize that B-teamers on KeSPA teams practice with the stars, get far better coaching support, participate in OSL just like eSF guys play in GSL, and also usually get an opportunity to play in Proleague at least now and then? They also get a salary, which is more than can be said about most eSF players, and have better housing, as well as freebies from their sponsors and pretty nice vacations during offseason etc. How do you know that? I'm pretty sure you are wrong about kespa B teamer.
What am I wrong about?
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On August 27 2012 06:46 Salazarz wrote:
There is no difference in that sense. The difference lies in the acceptance of playing for Kespa and also getting that hands on experience of the highest level of play. It is much like an intern at a major company.
More tournaments like what, Zotac cup? It's not like a B-teamer is going to fly out to MLG or something.
You do realize that B-teamers on KeSPA teams practice with the stars, get far better coaching support, participate in OSL just like eSF guys play in GSL, and also usually get an opportunity to play in Proleague at least now and then? They also get a salary, which is more than can be said about most eSF players, and have better housing, as well as freebies from their sponsors and pretty nice vacations during offseason etc. [/QUOTE]
You cannot confirm that. There is something called an "Open Bracket" in which B Teamers can join. Also, there are a whole bunch of online tournaments that these B Teamers can join. Also, I do realize (my second bolded quote) all of that especially because I summed it up in my post that you quoted above. Kespa is where it is at whereas ESF is not.
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On August 27 2012 06:46 stangstang wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 06:38 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 06:37 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 06:33 rd wrote:On August 27 2012 06:30 blade55555 wrote:On August 27 2012 06:27 Jormundr wrote:On August 27 2012 06:22 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 06:20 rd wrote:On August 27 2012 06:12 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 06:05 rd wrote:
[quote]
First of all, ESF and GOM are separate entities. Second of all, the players you listed were either "sanctioned" by their team, or by GOM. ESF had nothing to do with either. Also, stop comparing ESF to KeSPA as they are different kinds of representative bodies. One represents players, the other represents sponsors. Pretty EZ to understand.
Apparently you need to read further into the consequences of 'not playing in season 4.' Yeah, just like OGN and KeSPA are separate entities. As for your second 'point', it doesn't really change anything. The point is players do what they are told by the people in charge; sure you could argue that eSF is managed by people who are closer to e-sports etcetc, but the fact remains that players do what they are told, just like under KeSPA. The different between the two organizations isn't nearly as big as you seem to believe - eSF is pretty much a baby KeSPA. I never argued OGN and KeSPA weren't separate, and I sympathize with OGN that they're the one losing in all of this. But I hold KeSPA responsible for it. ESF isn't remotely as powerful as KeSPA when it comes to how they can discipline their players. ESF doesn't hold the priorities of the sponsors above the players. ESF doesn't hold the licenses of their players which they can take away for disobeying a ban and completely pull the rug from their competitive career. ESF can't really force their players to do anything as the player could just leave and find greener grass. Theres a huge difference. What makes you think eSF doesn't hold priorities of the sponsors above the players? In fact, the most recent events at WCS prove the opposite. KeSPA can't force their players to do anything as the player could just leave and find greener grass, too - what makes you think otherwise? Wrong. As former KeSPA players they would need a progaming license to play in KeSPA events. If they leave they lose their license, and they never get to play in KeSPA events again (OS2L, this "big project", SC2 Proleague). Whereas players who leave eSF teams can still play in GSL and GSTL (Provided they move to a team that is in the GSTL or partnered with one which is). Yup this, I am not sure why people don't realize that the players on the kespa teams can't really leave or they would be screwing themselves over. Not being able to play in anything kespa related and wouldn't get paid as much on a different team compared to their kespa teams. That, and they have much better salaries too. They have everything to lose and little to gain by leaving. This might be true for the BW stars. For the B-teamers the problem is nobody wants to hire them until they show promising skill or a fanbase, And how is that different for eSF B-teamers? Esf b-teamers can go to gsl qualifiers, osl qualifiers, korean online tournaments. Kespa b-teamers can't.
I don't think it's fair to compare who can go to OSL / GSL at this point. As far as I'm concerned, only KeSPA plays in OSL right now, and only eSF players are in GSL. Both tried to qualify for WCS, so that point is pretty moot. Korean online tournaments? Sure, the whole 1 of them, that has the top prizes not far off what KeSPA players get every month in salaries. Not a hard choice to make, if I had to do it.
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On August 27 2012 06:51 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 06:46 Salazarz wrote:
There is no difference in that sense. The difference lies in the acceptance of playing for Kespa and also getting that hands on experience of the highest level of play. It is much like an intern at a major company.
More tournaments like what, Zotac cup? It's not like a B-teamer is going to fly out to MLG or something.You do realize that B-teamers on KeSPA teams practice with the stars, get far better coaching support, participate in OSL just like eSF guys play in GSL, and also usually get an opportunity to play in Proleague at least now and then? They also get a salary, which is more than can be said about most eSF players, and have better housing, as well as freebies from their sponsors and pretty nice vacations during offseason etc. You cannot confirm that. There is something called an "Open Bracket" in which B Teamers can join. Also, there are a whole bunch of online tournaments that these B Teamers can join. Also, I do realize (my second bolded quote) all of that especially because I summed it up in my post that you quoted above. Kespa is where it is at whereas ESF is not.
Um, they 'can' join open brackets, but they really can't unless someone sponsors them, so that's irrelevant. I don't think there was a single case of an unknown player flying themselves out to an MLG or whatever, nevermind doing that and eventually winning enough money to cover their expenses.
Even players like MKP (using MKP in particular because it's the most obvious example, but it's not just him) wouldn't go to a foreign tournament unless their team or someone else sponsors them to do so - and it's not like an unknown B-teamer is going to get that, so again, moot point.
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DRG got picked up by MVP just by going to a qualifier. He didn't even qualify for code A for a while. Something like. That is nnot even a possibility under kespa.
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Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 06:46 Salazarz wrote:
There is no difference in that sense. The difference lies in the acceptance of playing for Kespa and also getting that hands on experience of the highest level of play. It is much like an intern at a major company. More tournaments like what, Zotac cup? It's not like a B-teamer is going to fly out to MLG or something.
How did Taeja become a big name? He won a ton of ESV tournaments. Sleep was picked up after making a deep Code A run. Golden won a bunch of ZOTAC cups. Dragon was signed by Mill mostly on the strength of a great stream and a few ZOTAC cups.
And your assumptions about the treatment of B-teamers on Kespa team are, as far as I know, wrong. You're more than welcome to point me in the direction of some sources saying otherwise.
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On August 27 2012 06:55 stangstang wrote:
DRG got picked up by MVP just by going to a qualifier. He didn't even qualify for code A for a while. Something like. That is nnot even a possibility under kespa.
Again, you're making things up. How do you think KeSPA picked up their players?
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On August 27 2012 06:54 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 06:51 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 06:46 Salazarz wrote:
There is no difference in that sense. The difference lies in the acceptance of playing for Kespa and also getting that hands on experience of the highest level of play. It is much like an intern at a major company.
More tournaments like what, Zotac cup? It's not like a B-teamer is going to fly out to MLG or something.You do realize that B-teamers on KeSPA teams practice with the stars, get far better coaching support, participate in OSL just like eSF guys play in GSL, and also usually get an opportunity to play in Proleague at least now and then? They also get a salary, which is more than can be said about most eSF players, and have better housing, as well as freebies from their sponsors and pretty nice vacations during offseason etc. You cannot confirm that. There is something called an "Open Bracket" in which B Teamers can join. Also, there are a whole bunch of online tournaments that these B Teamers can join. Also, I do realize (my second bolded quote) all of that especially because I summed it up in my post that you quoted above. Kespa is where it is at whereas ESF is not. Um, they 'can' join open brackets, but they really can't unless someone sponsors them, so that's irrelevant. I don't think there was a single case of an unknown player flying themselves out to an MLG or whatever, nevermind doing that and eventually winning enough money to cover their expenses.Even players like MKP (using MKP in particular because it's the most obvious example, but it's not just him) wouldn't go to a foreign tournament unless their team or someone else sponsors them to do so - and it's not like an unknown B-teamer is going to get that, so again, moot point.
Ok, then how exactly did Scarlett become known? She was not sponsored prior to the open bracket she attended.
Also, B Teamers can play in the GSL qualifiers, ESV, online cups etc.
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On August 27 2012 06:56 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 06:46 Salazarz wrote:
There is no difference in that sense. The difference lies in the acceptance of playing for Kespa and also getting that hands on experience of the highest level of play. It is much like an intern at a major company. More tournaments like what, Zotac cup? It's not like a B-teamer is going to fly out to MLG or something. How did Taeja become a big name? He won a ton of ESV tournaments. Sleep was picked up after making a deep Code A run. Golden won a bunch of ZOTAC cups. Dragon was signed by Mill mostly on the strength of a great stream and a few ZOTAC cups. And your assumptions about the treatment of B-teamers on Kespa team are, as far as I know, wrong. You're more than welcome to point me in the direction of some sources saying otherwise.
What assumptions of mine are wrong? I don't know what you're talking about, anyone who followed BW for more than a few months would agree with what I said.
It's a little difficult to compare KeSPA to eSF teams like that right now because, you know, KeSPA isn't exactly fully in the scene yet or anything; it's not like they are going to stay in their little pond only playing in OSL and PL forever, though. In BW times, there were minor leagues, special events, courage tournaments etc - there were plenty of opportunities for players to be noticed and picked up by a team. I don't really know what's your point with this, really.
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On August 27 2012 06:58 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 06:54 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 06:51 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 06:46 Salazarz wrote:
There is no difference in that sense. The difference lies in the acceptance of playing for Kespa and also getting that hands on experience of the highest level of play. It is much like an intern at a major company.
More tournaments like what, Zotac cup? It's not like a B-teamer is going to fly out to MLG or something.You do realize that B-teamers on KeSPA teams practice with the stars, get far better coaching support, participate in OSL just like eSF guys play in GSL, and also usually get an opportunity to play in Proleague at least now and then? They also get a salary, which is more than can be said about most eSF players, and have better housing, as well as freebies from their sponsors and pretty nice vacations during offseason etc. You cannot confirm that. There is something called an "Open Bracket" in which B Teamers can join. Also, there are a whole bunch of online tournaments that these B Teamers can join. Also, I do realize (my second bolded quote) all of that especially because I summed it up in my post that you quoted above. Kespa is where it is at whereas ESF is not. Um, they 'can' join open brackets, but they really can't unless someone sponsors them, so that's irrelevant. I don't think there was a single case of an unknown player flying themselves out to an MLG or whatever, nevermind doing that and eventually winning enough money to cover their expenses.Even players like MKP (using MKP in particular because it's the most obvious example, but it's not just him) wouldn't go to a foreign tournament unless their team or someone else sponsors them to do so - and it's not like an unknown B-teamer is going to get that, so again, moot point. Ok, then how exactly did Scarlett become known? She was not sponsored prior to the open bracket she attended. Also, B Teamers can play in the GSL qualifiers, ESV, online cups etc.
I didn't realize Scarlett was Korean...
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On August 27 2012 06:48 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 06:46 Salazarz wrote:
More tournaments like what, Zotac cup? It's not like a B-teamer is going to fly out to MLG or something.
You do realize that B-teamers on KeSPA teams practice with the stars, get far better coaching support, participate in OSL just like eSF guys play in GSL, and also usually get an opportunity to play in Proleague at least now and then? They also get a salary, which is more than can be said about most eSF players, and have better housing, as well as freebies from their sponsors and pretty nice vacations during offseason etc. Actually, someone in the know please fill me in on this. Is eSF teams nearly as poor as it has been described here nowadays? There's at least a few teams which have made decisions/actions that shows that they aren't broke.
No not nearly as poor as some people talk about these days. Most of them picked up pretty decent sponsors and even have the cash to support LoL teams on the side. IM is obviously fine with LG, Startale just absorbed the entire Zenex lineup, MVP picked up hot6ix and added 3, yes 3 LoL teams. (15 players!) Prime is doing well with primezzang, TSL is still relatively safe, NSHS is the same as ever and FXO is FXO.
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On August 27 2012 06:50 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 06:44 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 06:38 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 06:37 Sandermatt wrote:On August 27 2012 06:33 rd wrote:On August 27 2012 06:30 blade55555 wrote:On August 27 2012 06:27 Jormundr wrote:On August 27 2012 06:22 Salazarz wrote:On August 27 2012 06:20 rd wrote:On August 27 2012 06:12 Salazarz wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, just like OGN and KeSPA are separate entities.
As for your second 'point', it doesn't really change anything. The point is players do what they are told by the people in charge; sure you could argue that eSF is managed by people who are closer to e-sports etcetc, but the fact remains that players do what they are told, just like under KeSPA. The different between the two organizations isn't nearly as big as you seem to believe - eSF is pretty much a baby KeSPA.
I never argued OGN and KeSPA weren't separate, and I sympathize with OGN that they're the one losing in all of this. But I hold KeSPA responsible for it. ESF isn't remotely as powerful as KeSPA when it comes to how they can discipline their players. ESF doesn't hold the priorities of the sponsors above the players. ESF doesn't hold the licenses of their players which they can take away for disobeying a ban and completely pull the rug from their competitive career. ESF can't really force their players to do anything as the player could just leave and find greener grass. Theres a huge difference. What makes you think eSF doesn't hold priorities of the sponsors above the players? In fact, the most recent events at WCS prove the opposite. KeSPA can't force their players to do anything as the player could just leave and find greener grass, too - what makes you think otherwise? Wrong. As former KeSPA players they would need a progaming license to play in KeSPA events. If they leave they lose their license, and they never get to play in KeSPA events again (OS2L, this "big project", SC2 Proleague). Whereas players who leave eSF teams can still play in GSL and GSTL (Provided they move to a team that is in the GSTL or partnered with one which is). Yup this, I am not sure why people don't realize that the players on the kespa teams can't really leave or they would be screwing themselves over. Not being able to play in anything kespa related and wouldn't get paid as much on a different team compared to their kespa teams. That, and they have much better salaries too. They have everything to lose and little to gain by leaving. This might be true for the BW stars. For the B-teamers the problem is nobody wants to hire them until they show promising skill or a fanbase, And how is that different for eSF B-teamers? Well, it was more to complete the facts than to critizize KeSPa in this last posting, I gues the only difference is that the eSF players can try to make a name for themselves in a ton of small tournaments, as well as trying to qualify for the GSL. While the BW b-teamers I assume get little chance for televised matches. Also, could the players in Kespa be part of a weaker team (like this shield,join,by tags imply) compete in the top leagues if they wanted? See, you're talking about something you have no idea about, so I really don't know why do you feel qualified to pass on judgements on the way KeSPA operates or which organization is better. Sure, eSF B-teamers can play in stuff like Zotac cups or Korean weeklies - but it's not like you make a name for yourself by winning these. GSL and GSTL are literally the only ways for eSF players to make a breakthrough. It is virtually the same for KeSPA B-teamers. They don't have online cups, but they do have salaries - even if they aren't very high. They do get to play in OSL, as well as get fielded in PL if they come up with a good strategy for a specific map, or coaches just feel like they can afford fielding a weaker player to give them some experience in the booth. What you call 'weaker teams' aren't real teams but rather amateurs. In BW, amateurs couldn't participate in major tournaments (although there minor leagues for these, we just don't really know much about it cus nobody cared about that lol), in SC2... well, most amateurs are now on eSF teams.
Taeja for example made himself a name with the ESV tournaments. Hyun is mainly known for his pla in online tournaments too (I think largely european online tournaments). .I do not know how the saleries of each sides b-teamers compare I also doubt you knwo the numbers. B-teamers in the korean teams might also play in the GSTL, that is the same.
What I meant are amatuer or semi-professional teams. Some might pay a ittle to get a, a little better player. (teams like Light, earlier also CheckSix). This might also be an option for a b-teamer.
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EPT
