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On August 24 2012 08:30 NoGasfOu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 22:34 MVTaylor wrote:
Pathetic, I'm not paying OSL or any league related to KESPA a penny until they change their stance. Quite frankly I wouldn't mind if Blizzard black listed the OSL tournament and every KESPA pro gaming house until they change their mind. Finally something useful about bnet 0.2 Where was the last time you paid a penny to any of the Kespa leagues?
Funnily enough, the LoL international VODs cost money. I wouldn't be surprised if once they have an official english broadcast, they charge of the VODs just like GOM do.
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On August 24 2012 08:22 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:21 jpak wrote:On August 24 2012 08:19 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 08:17 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 08:10 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:05 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 07:51 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 07:44 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote:
The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2. I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now Funniest thing I've read all day. Talk about seeing what you want to see. What do you want to see? I want to see the best korean SC2 players matched against each other, and the GSL provides me with that. I know you BW fans want your to think the SC2 scene can't survive without your precious a-teamers, but believe or not SC2 has built a very respectable scene by its own. You did not build this scene, you are not the most important cogs within it. Deal with it. And that is why SC2 is so successful in Korea. Right? lol When will people realize that sacking the Korean SC2 scene instead of trying to integrate it would be the best thing that the international scene would ever do? The popularity of sc2 in korea is in kespa and gom's hands, not the "international scene" as you put it.
People are not worried about the popularity of SC2 just in Korea. This affects the popularity everywhere. SC2 is not just Korea.
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Im just very sad that they had to release such a statement on the same day Violet (BW) passed away..
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On August 24 2012 08:31 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:22 monkybone wrote:On August 24 2012 08:21 jpak wrote:On August 24 2012 08:19 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 08:17 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 08:10 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:05 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 07:51 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 07:44 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote:
The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2. I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now Funniest thing I've read all day. Talk about seeing what you want to see. What do you want to see? I want to see the best korean SC2 players matched against each other, and the GSL provides me with that. I know you BW fans want your to think the SC2 scene can't survive without your precious a-teamers, but believe or not SC2 has built a very respectable scene by its own. You did not build this scene, you are not the most important cogs within it. Deal with it. And that is why SC2 is so successful in Korea. Right? lol When will people realize that sacking the Korean SC2 scene instead of trying to integrate it would be the best thing that the international scene would ever do? The popularity of sc2 in korea is in kespa and gom's hands, not the "international scene" as you put it. People are not worried about the popularity of SC2 just in Korea. This affects the popularity everywhere. SC2 is not just Korea.
The core of sc2 though is in korea. Take out korea and sc2 becomes a lot less fun.
Imagine going back to foreigner vs foreigner every game. *shudder*
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On August 24 2012 08:33 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:31 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 08:22 monkybone wrote:On August 24 2012 08:21 jpak wrote:On August 24 2012 08:19 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 08:17 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 08:10 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:05 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 07:51 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 07:44 mrtomjones wrote:
[quote]
I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now Funniest thing I've read all day. Talk about seeing what you want to see. What do you want to see? I want to see the best korean SC2 players matched against each other, and the GSL provides me with that. I know you BW fans want your to think the SC2 scene can't survive without your precious a-teamers, but believe or not SC2 has built a very respectable scene by its own. You did not build this scene, you are not the most important cogs within it. Deal with it. And that is why SC2 is so successful in Korea. Right? lol When will people realize that sacking the Korean SC2 scene instead of trying to integrate it would be the best thing that the international scene would ever do? The popularity of sc2 in korea is in kespa and gom's hands, not the "international scene" as you put it. People are not worried about the popularity of SC2 just in Korea. This affects the popularity everywhere. SC2 is not just Korea. The core of sc2 though is in korea. Take out korea and sc2 becomes a lot less fun. Imagine going back to foreigner vs foreigner every game. *shudder*
I'm optimistic that in the worst case, the Korean scene dying, things would still turn out okay internationally in the long run. Preferably we would much rather it didn't happen, though.
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People, please. Kespa is only doing this to protect Korea's economy. Otherwise, Jaedong would take all of Korea's gross national product!
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On August 24 2012 08:12 hunts wrote:
But kespa hasn't done anything for SC2, they transitioned over to it in hopes of making money. Kespa did not make SC2 popular, and they certainly aren't trying to progress SC2 it seems, as they are once again trying to kill off competition, which is the opposite of progress. Blizzard owes kespa nothing, and honestly I hope they force kespa to cooperate with gom or shut kespa down.
GOM basically owes itself to the previous success of the SC franchise in Korea, which is in KeSPA's name.
I'm pretty sure they're not trying to "kill off" GOM, which is beyond KeSPA's abilities. They just have to work out the schedules. And anyway, businesses always compete, big deal.
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no wonder Tasteless is embarrassed to visit this place lol
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On August 24 2012 08:37 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:12 hunts wrote:
But kespa hasn't done anything for SC2, they transitioned over to it in hopes of making money. Kespa did not make SC2 popular, and they certainly aren't trying to progress SC2 it seems, as they are once again trying to kill off competition, which is the opposite of progress. Blizzard owes kespa nothing, and honestly I hope they force kespa to cooperate with gom or shut kespa down. GOM basically owes itself to the previous success of the SC franchise in Korea, which is in KeSPA's name. I'm pretty sure they're not trying to "kill off" GOM, which is beyond KeSPA's abilities. They just have to work out the schedules. And anyway, businesses always compete, big deal.
They did it in BW
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On August 24 2012 08:33 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:31 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 08:22 monkybone wrote:On August 24 2012 08:21 jpak wrote:On August 24 2012 08:19 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 08:17 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 08:10 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:05 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 07:51 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 07:44 mrtomjones wrote:
[quote]
I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now Funniest thing I've read all day. Talk about seeing what you want to see. What do you want to see? I want to see the best korean SC2 players matched against each other, and the GSL provides me with that. I know you BW fans want your to think the SC2 scene can't survive without your precious a-teamers, but believe or not SC2 has built a very respectable scene by its own. You did not build this scene, you are not the most important cogs within it. Deal with it. And that is why SC2 is so successful in Korea. Right? lol When will people realize that sacking the Korean SC2 scene instead of trying to integrate it would be the best thing that the international scene would ever do? The popularity of sc2 in korea is in kespa and gom's hands, not the "international scene" as you put it. People are not worried about the popularity of SC2 just in Korea. This affects the popularity everywhere. SC2 is not just Korea. The core of sc2 though is in korea. Take out korea and sc2 becomes a lot less fun. Imagine going back to foreigner vs foreigner every game. *shudder*
IF the Sc2 scene in Korea died I would fully expect many Koreans to simply compete internationally assuming the international scene didn't die.
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do people in here really think Blizzard can force KeSPA to send the players where they want them to be?
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sigh.... kespa i havnt missed u one bit since sc2 was release.
please dont bring your bullshit to this game aswell -_-
let them play, you tyrants!
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Does KeSPA even have any leverage in these negotiations? Stall tactics like these will do them no favors. Time is not on their side, as BW dies and SC2 expands.
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On August 24 2012 08:42 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:37 oBlade wrote:On August 24 2012 08:12 hunts wrote:
But kespa hasn't done anything for SC2, they transitioned over to it in hopes of making money. Kespa did not make SC2 popular, and they certainly aren't trying to progress SC2 it seems, as they are once again trying to kill off competition, which is the opposite of progress. Blizzard owes kespa nothing, and honestly I hope they force kespa to cooperate with gom or shut kespa down. GOM basically owes itself to the previous success of the SC franchise in Korea, which is in KeSPA's name. I'm pretty sure they're not trying to "kill off" GOM, which is beyond KeSPA's abilities. They just have to work out the schedules. And anyway, businesses always compete, big deal. They did it in BW
GOM didn't have their own players in BW.
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10387 Posts
I'm wondering what Blizzard is going to do, or if it can actually even can do anything. As far as I know, SC2's Korean scene is pretty much at the mercy of KeSPA and KeSPA is only transitioning from BW to SC2 to make it easier for their own players to adapt to something more familiar.
I can imagine that if Blizzard makes the wrong move, KeSPA could just give the finger to Blizzard and drop SC2 in favor for the much more popular LoL
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On August 24 2012 08:44 ArvickHero wrote:
I'm wondering what Blizzard is going to do, or if it can actually even can do anything. As far as I know, SC2's Korean scene is pretty much at the mercy of KeSPA and KeSPA is only transitioning from BW to SC2 to make it easier for their own players to adapt to something more familiar.
I can imagine that if Blizzard makes the wrong move, KeSPA could just give the finger to Blizzard and drop SC2 in favor for the much more popular LoL It's probably the best for the scene, actually, short of KeSPA being killed by Gom/Blizzard. I don't envision KeSPA playing nice, though I can always hope that I am wrong.
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On August 24 2012 08:43 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:33 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:31 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 08:22 monkybone wrote:On August 24 2012 08:21 jpak wrote:On August 24 2012 08:19 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 08:17 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 08:10 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:05 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 07:51 rysecake wrote:
[quote]
Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now Funniest thing I've read all day. Talk about seeing what you want to see. What do you want to see? I want to see the best korean SC2 players matched against each other, and the GSL provides me with that. I know you BW fans want your to think the SC2 scene can't survive without your precious a-teamers, but believe or not SC2 has built a very respectable scene by its own. You did not build this scene, you are not the most important cogs within it. Deal with it. And that is why SC2 is so successful in Korea. Right? lol When will people realize that sacking the Korean SC2 scene instead of trying to integrate it would be the best thing that the international scene would ever do? The popularity of sc2 in korea is in kespa and gom's hands, not the "international scene" as you put it. People are not worried about the popularity of SC2 just in Korea. This affects the popularity everywhere. SC2 is not just Korea. The core of sc2 though is in korea. Take out korea and sc2 becomes a lot less fun. Imagine going back to foreigner vs foreigner every game. *shudder* IF the Sc2 scene in Korea died I would fully expect many Koreans to simply compete internationally assuming the international scene didn't die.
No thanks. I don't want to see the korean skill level decrease. The reason korean's are so dominant is because they lock themselves in a house with 12 other people and train till their anus bleeds. If they all join foreign teams and trained in a foreign house (or god forbid no house at all) they would lose their skill.
So plz korean scene no die plz =(((
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Blizzard is not going to do anything, they will probably release a statement saying " we are sorry this had to happen " and maybe they will announce that Kespa has agreed to play in GSL season 5 if we're lucky.
On August 24 2012 08:45 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:43 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 08:33 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:31 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 08:22 monkybone wrote:On August 24 2012 08:21 jpak wrote:On August 24 2012 08:19 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 08:17 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 08:10 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:05 Bagi wrote:
[quote]
Funniest thing I've read all day.
Talk about seeing what you want to see. What do you want to see? I want to see the best korean SC2 players matched against each other, and the GSL provides me with that. I know you BW fans want your to think the SC2 scene can't survive without your precious a-teamers, but believe or not SC2 has built a very respectable scene by its own. You did not build this scene, you are not the most important cogs within it. Deal with it. And that is why SC2 is so successful in Korea. Right? lol When will people realize that sacking the Korean SC2 scene instead of trying to integrate it would be the best thing that the international scene would ever do? The popularity of sc2 in korea is in kespa and gom's hands, not the "international scene" as you put it. People are not worried about the popularity of SC2 just in Korea. This affects the popularity everywhere. SC2 is not just Korea. The core of sc2 though is in korea. Take out korea and sc2 becomes a lot less fun. Imagine going back to foreigner vs foreigner every game. *shudder* IF the Sc2 scene in Korea died I would fully expect many Koreans to simply compete internationally assuming the international scene didn't die. No thanks. I don't want to see the korean skill level decrease. The reason korean's are so dominant is because they lock themselves in a house with 12 other people and train till their anus bleeds. If they all join foreign teams and trained in a foreign house (or god forbid no house at all) they would lose their skill.
I think the teams could continue to operate as normal with their training, but simply send their players to international events a lot more frequently.
Of course that would get very expensive and not all of the federation teams have the money to do that.
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On August 24 2012 08:18 Prplppleatr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:05 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 07:45 Prplppleatr wrote:On August 24 2012 07:27 NoobSkills wrote:On August 24 2012 07:18 Prplppleatr wrote:On August 24 2012 06:58 NoobSkills wrote:On August 24 2012 06:49 valentine1 wrote:On August 24 2012 06:42 Plansix wrote:On August 24 2012 06:38 NoobSkills wrote:On August 24 2012 06:33 Dodgin wrote:
[quote]
The #1 reason for no LAN is so Blizzard has 100% control of who can and cannot run tournaments for starcraft 2. Yes, I just found this too.. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/5308167/A_Historic_Moment_in_eSports-5_2_2012I still think KESPA could get around Blizzard's blacklisted IP restrictions, but if they have a license to hold events already according to that, they still do "own" the players. They don't have to cooperate with GOM at least not by law I don't think. And let's not kid ourselves they own the more intriguing players. JD players 44k views on vod and I can't load my player live, but when 2 GOM players are at it ~5k views. I don't see how Blizzard can force KESPA to have their players play in GOM. They can do so through legal action if KeSPA breached the terms of the contract. I don't know the term in Korean law, but you can file a temporary restraining order in the US to enforce a term of a contract while the dispute is being settled. Apple just did it to Samsung in the US and several other markets with a phone, and Samsung cannot sell the phone any more. Also, the many of the Kespa members have America branches and do buisness there. Because that's the law? I mean maybe you guys don't quite understand how IP works... You can't just set up a company that makes a profit off of another person's work without their permission (as stated a hundred times before - licensing). In BW from what I've read, they got away with it because there was no real way to enforce it. Despite the fact that KeSPA 'owns' the players, it still doesn't make what they do any more of a breach of intellectual property rights if they have all the power in Korea and Blizzard doesn't. It's not a play of power, it's a play of rights. Blizzard can do what they like and KeSPA can deal, regardless of how much money and sponsorship they have. It is though, in Blizzard's best interest to get on-side with KeSPA because of the huge potential domestic market. I don't think you get my point. If the contract was only about having to pay a fee for the IP rights to hold an event then the OSL has already done that seeing as the OSL is about to start. If that is true then they aren't breaching their IP rights because Blizzard has been paid. The IP rights do not extend to Blizzard being able to control what KESPA or anyone does with their players. I don't think that Blizzard can force KESPA to share their players based off a TV/IP rights contract. Blizzard, however, can attempt to shut down an OSL by breaking their contract. On August 24 2012 06:56 madsweepslol wrote:On August 24 2012 06:32 NoobSkills wrote:If KESPA decides to run an event Blizzard can fuck with it what only if their Logo isn't shown? Or they could, you know, simply disconnect OSL tourney's from their servers and shut KeSPA's sc2 efforts down cold. If shit ever went that far, anyways. Yup agreed, but then Blizzard would be supporting GOM's way which isn't right either. At least quite a few players for KESPA make some money nowadays. I don't know about GOM teams (for sure), but most hint at no salary, just room and board, possible travel. Wow...you realize those are all assumptions, yes? You are giving KeSPA way too much credit here, imo. If Blizzard wanted to they could revoke KeSPA's rights to SC2 and if they can't put on a tournament, then why would the players care if they broke their rules. They do not own the players..if they wanted to break the rules they would simply be banned from kespa (and if KeSPA can not hold tourneys, who would care?), they would not be thrown in jail or anything like that. As far as the GOM thing goes, you're making even more assumptions. Yes, I do? You're right Blizzard could shut down OSL and then KESPA would have nothing for it's players to play in. Then what happens to the KESPA teams? Are they willing to kill that stability and structure to make them share players? Who knows. If it is too far of a reach then please explain why KESPA is holding back their players. If they're not ready to play for a GSL because the GSL players are too good, then why are the GSL players in the OSL? What other reason could they have for holding back their players other than attempting to weaken/destroy the competition. As far as the GOM team's pay scale thing goes? Are you kidding me? That has been stated over and over again by so many pros that they're not paid or paid very little.
The thing I find funny is that there is a TON of money in the foreign scene and Kespa only seems mildly interested in getting in on that. If they wanted more money they would cooperate with Gom and grow the market instead of fighting over a small chunk which wont grow. Bad business practice imo.
I think they have their eyes on the foreign scene and are making preparations for it. The rumored English stream and working with MLG. Though I don't know how they feel about the MLG format. My point was that " you are giving kespa too much credit" and if Blizzard wanted to they could play hard ball and kespa would have to comply. And because you haven't seemed to check the OP, the reason that KeSPA did this is because of scheduling conflicts. My personal opinion is that it is bs and hopefully blizz will step in and inform them that this is not cooperation. If they want to do a "huge tournament" then they should inform us about it and let the players decide if they want to risk a scheduling conflict by participating in Code A, especially since they have expressed they want to play in it (from OP, again). And if they need more players then open it up to GOM players as well or even foreigners. And as the GOM salary thing goes, players obviously don't receive the same accommodations as foreigners but it is also two very different situations: there is less space in korea so they can't have mansions, like some foreigner teams at other parts of the world; the quality of players is significantly higher in korea (ie. supply is greater, with equal demand..price decreases); AND if they really felt that underpaid, why not join a foreign team? especially since so many foreign teams have cooperation's with korean teams......My point is that it is not as bad as you make it out to be, and many others. Are they paid less and receive less, on average, yes most likely, but it only makes sense that it would be the case. Big name players get big money.. If I were the NFL (Kespa) merging with arena football (Gom) I would have a problem with that too considering that our organization is what made the game successful in the first place without the use of the other companies. Giving Kespa "too much credit" is by far an understatement, considering what they have done with the Brood War franchise and the longevity of it's survival. Kespa set up teams, commentators, regulations, had connections with some of the major companies and even established a league with air time that accumulated a vast fan base. Those reasons alone are why Blizzard should not have filed a complaint or pursued the IP issues, much less have a problem with them broadcasting StarCraft two without a grant. Kespa has already paid for itself by the amount of sells StarCraft II received because they played a big role in its success. In otherwords, Kespa should have a choice in what they do and when they do it, because without them to begin with the StarCraft franchise would have died long ago. You completely missed my point and your analogy is terrible. No one owns football. SC2 is blizzards game, they made it, they own it, and they have the rights to it, period. You are most certainly correct that Kespa made BW into what it became...and GOM helped SC2 grow (also partly off the back of BW's popularity). BUT my point was/is that Blizzard still owns the game, it is their game. If Kespa is not going to help grow esports (again) by not cooperating (like they said they would) then blizzard can shut them down....ie blizzard is king because it is their game..same with BW.
My analogy suits the situation, your perception and logic is whats terrible. Kespa made SC in Korea a sport for professionalsmuch like the NFL while GOM is a replica of that which is much like arena football. You are correct about SC2 is blizzards game, they made it, own it, and have rights to it period. What I do not agree with is the bolded statement. Kespa did not have to cooperate with Blizzard or Gom for that matter to "grow" StarCraft as an esport. They did so by their sponserships, leagues, events, prize pools and management which resulted in the accumulation of fans, revenue, and overall interest. So, saying Kespa is "not going to help grow esports (again) by not cooperating" is a damn lie. Regardless of their actions there will still be interest in the players, leagues and events. SC2 is riding off the very "esport" that Kespa created so how does your quote have any logic?
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