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On August 24 2012 08:17 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:10 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:05 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 07:51 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 07:44 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote:
The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2. I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now Funniest thing I've read all day. Talk about seeing what you want to see. What do you want to see? I want to see the best korean SC2 players matched against each other, and the GSL provides me with that. I know you BW fans want your to think the SC2 scene can't survive without your precious a-teamers, but believe or not SC2 has built a very respectable scene by its own. You did not build this scene, you are not the most important cogs within it. Deal with it.
And that is why SC2 is so successful in Korea. Right? lol
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On August 24 2012 08:10 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:05 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 07:51 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 07:44 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote:
The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2. I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now Funniest thing I've read all day. Talk about seeing what you want to see. What do you want to see? The best sc1 players vs the old sc2 players? or just the sc2 players vs sc2 players and sc1 vs sc1. The point here is to see how fast they catch up. I get bored of watchign the same shit. And as for sc2 vs sc2 or sc1 vs sc1. The better game skill wise to watch is sc2 vs sc2. The more interesting one though is sc1 vs sc1 as people want to see them grow. "except for flash" ^ and you're talking about bias? lol. I love flash as much as the next guy but i could name a ton of players who I'd love to see stomp gom players. edit: ^ most people who only follow sc2 only care for flash or jaedong because that's all they hear or know about. There are other players (jangbi, fantasy, stork etc.) who are doing just as well if not better than flash and jaedong
I think it is a bit silly when anyone says "people want this or people want that" as if they are speaking for everyone. The BW fans typically are more interested in BW players and the SC2 fans are typically more interested in the Sc2 players. It does seem as if it is mostly sc2 fans who want both groups to do well though(at least until the elitist BW fans show up and then they simply want to watch them crash and burn)
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On August 24 2012 07:55 densha wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 07:51 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 07:44 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote:
The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2. I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now It's specifically Kespa v. GOM. Kespa v. Kespa matches are pretty equal to (or even less than) GOM v. GOM matches in terms of excitement unless it's two big names playing each other (and then it's only best-of-one because of Kespa formats). GOM v. Kespa trumps over any other storyline and I think we're all just angry that Kespa is robbing us of that for no other reason than to be giant dicks towards GOM.
its not about the playstyles, its about the storylines
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On August 24 2012 08:18 Prplppleatr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:05 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 07:45 Prplppleatr wrote:On August 24 2012 07:27 NoobSkills wrote:On August 24 2012 07:18 Prplppleatr wrote:On August 24 2012 06:58 NoobSkills wrote:On August 24 2012 06:49 valentine1 wrote:On August 24 2012 06:42 Plansix wrote:On August 24 2012 06:38 NoobSkills wrote:On August 24 2012 06:33 Dodgin wrote:
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The #1 reason for no LAN is so Blizzard has 100% control of who can and cannot run tournaments for starcraft 2. Yes, I just found this too.. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/5308167/A_Historic_Moment_in_eSports-5_2_2012I still think KESPA could get around Blizzard's blacklisted IP restrictions, but if they have a license to hold events already according to that, they still do "own" the players. They don't have to cooperate with GOM at least not by law I don't think. And let's not kid ourselves they own the more intriguing players. JD players 44k views on vod and I can't load my player live, but when 2 GOM players are at it ~5k views. I don't see how Blizzard can force KESPA to have their players play in GOM. They can do so through legal action if KeSPA breached the terms of the contract. I don't know the term in Korean law, but you can file a temporary restraining order in the US to enforce a term of a contract while the dispute is being settled. Apple just did it to Samsung in the US and several other markets with a phone, and Samsung cannot sell the phone any more. Also, the many of the Kespa members have America branches and do buisness there. Because that's the law? I mean maybe you guys don't quite understand how IP works... You can't just set up a company that makes a profit off of another person's work without their permission (as stated a hundred times before - licensing). In BW from what I've read, they got away with it because there was no real way to enforce it. Despite the fact that KeSPA 'owns' the players, it still doesn't make what they do any more of a breach of intellectual property rights if they have all the power in Korea and Blizzard doesn't. It's not a play of power, it's a play of rights. Blizzard can do what they like and KeSPA can deal, regardless of how much money and sponsorship they have. It is though, in Blizzard's best interest to get on-side with KeSPA because of the huge potential domestic market. I don't think you get my point. If the contract was only about having to pay a fee for the IP rights to hold an event then the OSL has already done that seeing as the OSL is about to start. If that is true then they aren't breaching their IP rights because Blizzard has been paid. The IP rights do not extend to Blizzard being able to control what KESPA or anyone does with their players. I don't think that Blizzard can force KESPA to share their players based off a TV/IP rights contract. Blizzard, however, can attempt to shut down an OSL by breaking their contract. On August 24 2012 06:56 madsweepslol wrote:On August 24 2012 06:32 NoobSkills wrote:If KESPA decides to run an event Blizzard can fuck with it what only if their Logo isn't shown? Or they could, you know, simply disconnect OSL tourney's from their servers and shut KeSPA's sc2 efforts down cold. If shit ever went that far, anyways. Yup agreed, but then Blizzard would be supporting GOM's way which isn't right either. At least quite a few players for KESPA make some money nowadays. I don't know about GOM teams (for sure), but most hint at no salary, just room and board, possible travel. Wow...you realize those are all assumptions, yes? You are giving KeSPA way too much credit here, imo. If Blizzard wanted to they could revoke KeSPA's rights to SC2 and if they can't put on a tournament, then why would the players care if they broke their rules. They do not own the players..if they wanted to break the rules they would simply be banned from kespa (and if KeSPA can not hold tourneys, who would care?), they would not be thrown in jail or anything like that. As far as the GOM thing goes, you're making even more assumptions. Yes, I do? You're right Blizzard could shut down OSL and then KESPA would have nothing for it's players to play in. Then what happens to the KESPA teams? Are they willing to kill that stability and structure to make them share players? Who knows. If it is too far of a reach then please explain why KESPA is holding back their players. If they're not ready to play for a GSL because the GSL players are too good, then why are the GSL players in the OSL? What other reason could they have for holding back their players other than attempting to weaken/destroy the competition. As far as the GOM team's pay scale thing goes? Are you kidding me? That has been stated over and over again by so many pros that they're not paid or paid very little.
The thing I find funny is that there is a TON of money in the foreign scene and Kespa only seems mildly interested in getting in on that. If they wanted more money they would cooperate with Gom and grow the market instead of fighting over a small chunk which wont grow. Bad business practice imo.
I think they have their eyes on the foreign scene and are making preparations for it. The rumored English stream and working with MLG. Though I don't know how they feel about the MLG format. My point was that " you are giving kespa too much credit" and if Blizzard wanted to they could play hard ball and kespa would have to comply. And because you haven't seemed to check the OP, the reason that KeSPA did this is because of scheduling conflicts. My personal opinion is that it is bs and hopefully blizz will step in and inform them that this is not cooperation. If they want to do a "huge tournament" then they should inform us about it and let the players decide if they want to risk a scheduling conflict by participating in Code A, especially since they have expressed they want to play in it (from OP, again). And if they need more players then open it up to GOM players as well or even foreigners. And as the GOM salary thing goes, players obviously don't receive the same accommodations as foreigners but it is also two very different situations: there is less space in korea so they can't have mansions, like some foreigner teams at other parts of the world; the quality of players is significantly higher in korea (ie. supply is greater, with equal demand..price decreases); AND if they really felt that underpaid, why not join a foreign team? especially since so many foreign teams have cooperation's with korean teams......My point is that it is not as bad as you make it out to be, and many others. Are they paid less and receive less, on average, yes most likely, but it only makes sense that it would be the case. Big name players get big money.. If I were the NFL (Kespa) merging with arena football (Gom) I would have a problem with that too considering that our organization is what made the game successful in the first place without the use of the other companies. Giving Kespa "too much credit" is by far an understatement, considering what they have done with the Brood War franchise and the longevity of it's survival. Kespa set up teams, commentators, regulations, had connections with some of the major companies and even established a league with air time that accumulated a vast fan base. Those reasons alone are why Blizzard should not have filed a complaint or pursued the IP issues, much less have a problem with them broadcasting StarCraft two without a grant. Kespa has already paid for itself by the amount of sells StarCraft II received because they played a big role in its success. In otherwords, Kespa should have a choice in what they do and when they do it, because without them to begin with the StarCraft franchise would have died long ago. You completely missed my point and you're analogy is terrible. No one owns football. SC2 is blizzards game, they made it, they own it, and they have the rights to it, period. You are most certainly correct that Kespa made BW into what it became...and GOM helped SC2 grow (also partly off the back of BW's popularity, again you are correct). BUT my point was/is that Blizzard still owns the game, it is their game. If Kespa is not going to help grow esports (again) by not cooperating (like they said they would) then blizzard can shut them down....ie blizzard is king because it is their game..same with BW.
The big thing is that NFL players have a union. NFL can not just force decision to players without repercussion like KeSPA is doing.
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On August 24 2012 08:19 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:17 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 08:10 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:05 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 07:51 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 07:44 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote:
The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2. I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now Funniest thing I've read all day. Talk about seeing what you want to see. What do you want to see? I want to see the best korean SC2 players matched against each other, and the GSL provides me with that. I know you BW fans want your to think the SC2 scene can't survive without your precious a-teamers, but believe or not SC2 has built a very respectable scene by its own. You did not build this scene, you are not the most important cogs within it. Deal with it. And that is why SC2 is so successful in Korea. Right? lol
When will people realize that sacking the Korean SC2 scene instead of trying to integrate it would be the best thing that the international scene would ever do?
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On August 24 2012 08:19 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:17 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 08:10 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:05 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 07:51 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 07:44 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote:
The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2. I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now Funniest thing I've read all day. Talk about seeing what you want to see. What do you want to see? I want to see the best korean SC2 players matched against each other, and the GSL provides me with that. I know you BW fans want your to think the SC2 scene can't survive without your precious a-teamers, but believe or not SC2 has built a very respectable scene by its own. You did not build this scene, you are not the most important cogs within it. Deal with it. And that is why SC2 is so successful in Korea. Right? lol
It's not like BW in its hayday (not surprising with a 2 year old game and BW as competition), but it surely was successful.
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On August 24 2012 08:21 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:19 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 08:17 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 08:10 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:05 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 07:51 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 07:44 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote:
The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2. I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now Funniest thing I've read all day. Talk about seeing what you want to see. What do you want to see? I want to see the best korean SC2 players matched against each other, and the GSL provides me with that. I know you BW fans want your to think the SC2 scene can't survive without your precious a-teamers, but believe or not SC2 has built a very respectable scene by its own. You did not build this scene, you are not the most important cogs within it. Deal with it. And that is why SC2 is so successful in Korea. Right? lol When will people realize that sacking the Korean SC2 scene instead of trying to integrate it would be the best thing that the international scene would ever do?
That would kinda kill all of sc2 lol. Very few watch sc2 for foreigners only.
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I wonder how will the Federation react. If Gom loses, the Federation loses a lot, if not all, their power. Given that, it makes sense for them to back Gom, perhaps even to the extent of withdrawing from OSL.
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On August 24 2012 08:24 achan1058 wrote:
I wonder how will the Federation react. If Gom loses, the Federation loses a lot, if not all, their power. Given that, it makes sense for them to back Gom, perhaps even to the extent of withdrawing from OSL.
I would rather them not enter a full out war, but it is a brief period where eFed have some power because they still have best SC2 player ATM.
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On August 24 2012 06:22 Ribbon wrote:
GOM, on the other hand, was doing their tournaments with Blizzard's endorsements, and making some efforts to expand the foreign BW scene with foreign BW tournaments and english casting. This is why Blizzard gave GOM the rights to SC2 originally: they were trying to grow "e-sports" while KeSPA was trying to shrink it.
Your wrong on this one. The thing is that KeSPA, OGN and MBC at the said time not only heavily invested into e-Sports which started from PC bang tournies to being televised on TV but all of their attitude were to increase such market. MBC, one of the broadcasting companies who later joined the group also sponsored a team. OGN has a LONG history with gaming so they are an exception.
GOM on the otherhand just wanted to broadcast the games by setting up a BW tournament which came off as just wanting a share of the pie without working hard for it.
As to the OP, I think its a dick move by KeSPA and I doubt they have a "grand project". Im not holding my breath for anything because funnily enough they were able to run proleague on top of 2 starleagues back in the days so the whole "schedule" excuse is rubbish.
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On August 24 2012 08:21 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:19 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 08:17 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 08:10 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:05 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 07:51 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 07:44 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote:
The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2. I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now Funniest thing I've read all day. Talk about seeing what you want to see. What do you want to see? I want to see the best korean SC2 players matched against each other, and the GSL provides me with that. I know you BW fans want your to think the SC2 scene can't survive without your precious a-teamers, but believe or not SC2 has built a very respectable scene by its own. You did not build this scene, you are not the most important cogs within it. Deal with it. And that is why SC2 is so successful in Korea. Right? lol When will people realize that sacking the Korean SC2 scene instead of trying to integrate it would be the best thing that the international scene would ever do?
Because that worked out so well with BW?
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On August 24 2012 08:19 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:09 starojda wrote:
It is not the last GSL so I would not make so much noise about it... It's the second GSL they pulled out. Which is why original post says: Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote:
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
They were supposed to enter the last GSL as hinted at Blizz/GOM/KeSPA joint thing, but they pulled out for being not ready. They had a point then so it wasn't a big deal. But they can't use the same excuse for being not ready when GSL players are in the OSL.
Plus the keep citing 'schedule' as an excuse. Lots of comps hasn't ever stopped the GSL players before, and the Kespa players themselves have said that they want to play the GSL qualifiers, and hey, they're the ones subject to this supposed 'packed schedule'. Besides, the proleague is coming to a close and the OSL only affects eight players out of the entire kespa roster. They're skipping MLG too. The schedule excuse is just bullshit in every conceivable regard lol.
"Not being ready" isn't an excuse either, because again, the players said they want to. Plus the WCS has demonstrated that, at the very least, the best of the kespa players are low Code S level.
Cost and sponsorship isn't an issue either because they don't have to leave the country to compete in the GSL (except at the very end, for this one season) and sponsors, if anything, want them to compete in as much stuff as possible lol.
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On August 24 2012 08:19 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:10 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:05 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 07:51 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 07:44 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote:
The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2. I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now Funniest thing I've read all day. Talk about seeing what you want to see. What do you want to see? The best sc1 players vs the old sc2 players? or just the sc2 players vs sc2 players and sc1 vs sc1. The point here is to see how fast they catch up. I get bored of watchign the same shit. And as for sc2 vs sc2 or sc1 vs sc1. The better game skill wise to watch is sc2 vs sc2. The more interesting one though is sc1 vs sc1 as people want to see them grow. "except for flash" ^ and you're talking about bias? lol. I love flash as much as the next guy but i could name a ton of players who I'd love to see stomp gom players. edit: ^ most people who only follow sc2 only care for flash or jaedong because that's all they hear or know about. There are other players (jangbi, fantasy, stork etc.) who are doing just as well if not better than flash and jaedong I think it is a bit silly when anyone says "people want this or people want that" as if they are speaking for everyone. The BW fans typically are more interested in BW players and the SC2 fans are typically more interested in the Sc2 players. It does seem as if it is mostly sc2 fans who want both groups to do well though(at least until the elitist BW fans show up and then they simply want to watch them crash and burn)
I'll try my analogy at this. On one side you have an old school Michael Jordan fan. He wants to see a prime mj take on lebron in today's game. On the other side you have a new school kid who grew up watching lebron. He wasn't born during mj's era. Now you have prime mj vs lebron in today's game, which is very different from 90s basketball. The new kid wants to see both players do well, because he has grown up listening to his dad talk about how awesome mj is. The dad wants mj to destroy lebron because he has seen both games and thinks mj is superior.
Obviously it's a little hard to explain since sc1 and sc2 are more different than we think. But rabid fanboys on either side are annoying so I'll give you that.
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Even if they weren't ready, at this point, letting them compete will let them gain the experience to be better.
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That sucks, I hope kespa doesnt screw over the korea scene
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On August 24 2012 08:22 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:21 jpak wrote:On August 24 2012 08:19 jidolboy wrote:On August 24 2012 08:17 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 08:10 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 08:05 Bagi wrote:On August 24 2012 07:51 rysecake wrote:On August 24 2012 07:44 mrtomjones wrote:On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote:
The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2. I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now Funniest thing I've read all day. Talk about seeing what you want to see. What do you want to see? I want to see the best korean SC2 players matched against each other, and the GSL provides me with that. I know you BW fans want your to think the SC2 scene can't survive without your precious a-teamers, but believe or not SC2 has built a very respectable scene by its own. You did not build this scene, you are not the most important cogs within it. Deal with it. And that is why SC2 is so successful in Korea. Right? lol When will people realize that sacking the Korean SC2 scene instead of trying to integrate it would be the best thing that the international scene would ever do? The popularity of sc2 in korea is in kespa and gom's hands, not the "international scene" as you put it.
I didn't say anything about making SC2 popular in Korea. I just meant trying to integrate the (relatively) small SC2 scene in Korea into the SC2 scene as a whole seems like giving yourself cancer that would eventually kill all of it.
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On August 24 2012 08:12 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 08:05 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 24 2012 07:45 Prplppleatr wrote:On August 24 2012 07:27 NoobSkills wrote:On August 24 2012 07:18 Prplppleatr wrote:On August 24 2012 06:58 NoobSkills wrote:On August 24 2012 06:49 valentine1 wrote:On August 24 2012 06:42 Plansix wrote:On August 24 2012 06:38 NoobSkills wrote:On August 24 2012 06:33 Dodgin wrote:
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The #1 reason for no LAN is so Blizzard has 100% control of who can and cannot run tournaments for starcraft 2. Yes, I just found this too.. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/5308167/A_Historic_Moment_in_eSports-5_2_2012I still think KESPA could get around Blizzard's blacklisted IP restrictions, but if they have a license to hold events already according to that, they still do "own" the players. They don't have to cooperate with GOM at least not by law I don't think. And let's not kid ourselves they own the more intriguing players. JD players 44k views on vod and I can't load my player live, but when 2 GOM players are at it ~5k views. I don't see how Blizzard can force KESPA to have their players play in GOM. They can do so through legal action if KeSPA breached the terms of the contract. I don't know the term in Korean law, but you can file a temporary restraining order in the US to enforce a term of a contract while the dispute is being settled. Apple just did it to Samsung in the US and several other markets with a phone, and Samsung cannot sell the phone any more. Also, the many of the Kespa members have America branches and do buisness there. Because that's the law? I mean maybe you guys don't quite understand how IP works... You can't just set up a company that makes a profit off of another person's work without their permission (as stated a hundred times before - licensing). In BW from what I've read, they got away with it because there was no real way to enforce it. Despite the fact that KeSPA 'owns' the players, it still doesn't make what they do any more of a breach of intellectual property rights if they have all the power in Korea and Blizzard doesn't. It's not a play of power, it's a play of rights. Blizzard can do what they like and KeSPA can deal, regardless of how much money and sponsorship they have. It is though, in Blizzard's best interest to get on-side with KeSPA because of the huge potential domestic market. I don't think you get my point. If the contract was only about having to pay a fee for the IP rights to hold an event then the OSL has already done that seeing as the OSL is about to start. If that is true then they aren't breaching their IP rights because Blizzard has been paid. The IP rights do not extend to Blizzard being able to control what KESPA or anyone does with their players. I don't think that Blizzard can force KESPA to share their players based off a TV/IP rights contract. Blizzard, however, can attempt to shut down an OSL by breaking their contract. On August 24 2012 06:56 madsweepslol wrote:On August 24 2012 06:32 NoobSkills wrote:If KESPA decides to run an event Blizzard can fuck with it what only if their Logo isn't shown? Or they could, you know, simply disconnect OSL tourney's from their servers and shut KeSPA's sc2 efforts down cold. If shit ever went that far, anyways. Yup agreed, but then Blizzard would be supporting GOM's way which isn't right either. At least quite a few players for KESPA make some money nowadays. I don't know about GOM teams (for sure), but most hint at no salary, just room and board, possible travel. Wow...you realize those are all assumptions, yes? You are giving KeSPA way too much credit here, imo. If Blizzard wanted to they could revoke KeSPA's rights to SC2 and if they can't put on a tournament, then why would the players care if they broke their rules. They do not own the players..if they wanted to break the rules they would simply be banned from kespa (and if KeSPA can not hold tourneys, who would care?), they would not be thrown in jail or anything like that. As far as the GOM thing goes, you're making even more assumptions. Yes, I do? You're right Blizzard could shut down OSL and then KESPA would have nothing for it's players to play in. Then what happens to the KESPA teams? Are they willing to kill that stability and structure to make them share players? Who knows. If it is too far of a reach then please explain why KESPA is holding back their players. If they're not ready to play for a GSL because the GSL players are too good, then why are the GSL players in the OSL? What other reason could they have for holding back their players other than attempting to weaken/destroy the competition. As far as the GOM team's pay scale thing goes? Are you kidding me? That has been stated over and over again by so many pros that they're not paid or paid very little.
The thing I find funny is that there is a TON of money in the foreign scene and Kespa only seems mildly interested in getting in on that. If they wanted more money they would cooperate with Gom and grow the market instead of fighting over a small chunk which wont grow. Bad business practice imo.
I think they have their eyes on the foreign scene and are making preparations for it. The rumored English stream and working with MLG. Though I don't know how they feel about the MLG format. My point was that " you are giving kespa too much credit" and if Blizzard wanted to they could play hard ball and kespa would have to comply. And because you haven't seemed to check the OP, the reason that KeSPA did this is because of scheduling conflicts. My personal opinion is that it is bs and hopefully blizz will step in and inform them that this is not cooperation. If they want to do a "huge tournament" then they should inform us about it and let the players decide if they want to risk a scheduling conflict by participating in Code A, especially since they have expressed they want to play in it (from OP, again). And if they need more players then open it up to GOM players as well or even foreigners. And as the GOM salary thing goes, players obviously don't receive the same accommodations as foreigners but it is also two very different situations: there is less space in korea so they can't have mansions, like some foreigner teams at other parts of the world; the quality of players is significantly higher in korea (ie. supply is greater, with equal demand..price decreases); AND if they really felt that underpaid, why not join a foreign team? especially since so many foreign teams have cooperation's with korean teams......My point is that it is not as bad as you make it out to be, and many others. Are they paid less and receive less, on average, yes most likely, but it only makes sense that it would be the case. Big name players get big money.. If I were the NFL (Kespa) merging with arena football (Gom) I would have a problem with that too considering that our organization is what made the game successful in the first place without the use of the other companies. Giving Kespa "too much credit" is by far an understatement, considering what they have done with the Brood War franchise and the longevity of it's survival. Kespa set up teams, commentators, regulations, had connections with some of the major companies and even established a league with air time that accumulated a vast fan base. Those reasons alone are why Blizzard should not have filed a complaint or pursued the IP issues, much less have a problem with them broadcasting StarCraft two without a grant. Kespa has already paid for itself by the amount of sells StarCraft II received because they played a big role in its success. In otherwords, Kespa should have a choice in what they do and when they do it, because without them to begin with the StarCraft franchise would have died long ago. But kespa hasn't done anything for SC2, they transitioned over to it in hopes of making money. Kespa did not make SC2 popular, and they certainly aren't trying to progress SC2 it seems, as they are once again trying to kill off competition, which is the opposite of progress. Blizzard owes kespa nothing, and honestly I hope they force kespa to cooperate with gom or shut kespa down.
I want to make this clear. Whether or not you agree with what KESPA is doing as a business maneuver please remember this. KESPA before even playing their first game of SC2 MADE SC2 popular. There would not be an SC2 without KESPA. The ESPORTS scene would be far setback without KESPA. GOM would NEVER have existed without KESPA.
Now, despite you having a problem with how they treat GOM, the world isn't made of puppies and sunshine. They're a business which wants to make money. They have also made an environment where money is pretty stable and their content is free.
I would like to have everything work well together GOM's more caring side, global side of business. KESPA's success and management of funds and sponsors. KESPA's teams who actually pay their players. I would love for there to be content all the time, but not too much like there is now perhaps an organization that allows 6 weekend foreign events a year, 3GOM, 3OSL, and organizes a proleague. Too bad none of that will happen, and the game will suffer for it with over saturation of content, weakening of gameplay, and pure exhaustion of players if they have to compete in two leagues, two pro leagues, and attempt to attend foreign events, as well as gom players being paid dirt, and kespa players being treated like slaves.
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On August 23 2012 22:34 MVTaylor wrote:
Pathetic, I'm not paying OSL or any league related to KESPA a penny until they change their stance. Quite frankly I wouldn't mind if Blizzard black listed the OSL tournament and every KESPA pro gaming house until they change their mind. Finally something useful about bnet 0.2
Where was the last time you paid a penny to any of the Kespa leagues?
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