Wait what's with KeSPA screwing over MLG? Are they not going to be at Anahiem anymore, or are they not allowing their players to participate or something like that?
On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote: The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2.
I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc
Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now
I imagine blizzard is stepping in here because they realize that this the opposite of supporting free (for the players) and global e-sports so they're like "hang on, that's not what you promised, what the hell are you doing"?
They can do so through legal action if KeSPA breached the terms of the contract. I don't know the term in Korean law, but you can file a temporary restraining order in the US to enforce a term of a contract while the dispute is being settled. Apple just did it to Samsung in the US and several other markets with a phone, and Samsung cannot sell the phone any more. Also, the many of the Kespa members have America branches and do buisness there.
Because that's the law? I mean maybe you guys don't quite understand how IP works... You can't just set up a company that makes a profit off of another person's work without their permission (as stated a hundred times before - licensing). In BW from what I've read, they got away with it because there was no real way to enforce it. Despite the fact that KeSPA 'owns' the players, it still doesn't make what they do any more of a breach of intellectual property rights if they have all the power in Korea and Blizzard doesn't. It's not a play of power, it's a play of rights. Blizzard can do what they like and KeSPA can deal, regardless of how much money and sponsorship they have. It is though, in Blizzard's best interest to get on-side with KeSPA because of the huge potential domestic market.
I don't think you get my point. If the contract was only about having to pay a fee for the IP rights to hold an event then the OSL has already done that seeing as the OSL is about to start. If that is true then they aren't breaching their IP rights because Blizzard has been paid. The IP rights do not extend to Blizzard being able to control what KESPA or anyone does with their players. I don't think that Blizzard can force KESPA to share their players based off a TV/IP rights contract. Blizzard, however, can attempt to shut down an OSL by breaking their contract.
just shut down all korea for "maintenance" whenever osl is on ^^
I'm sure that Korea can find their own private server and play on that.
That would be some serious infringement should they decide to broadcast it.
They don't need to do this, they can blacklist venues from bnet as we've seen before.
Private server is by definition not on bnet.
Kespa has large multinational corporations like Samsung backing there. Running the tournament of private(illegal) server is a nonstarter.
How easy the private server could be set up has nothing to do about this though. If they decided to run and broadcast the game using a private server, I bet that a huge lawsuit that OGN/KesPA has no hope to win will be handed against them. Blizzard could actually force OGN to bankruptcy if that is the case.
Yeah that's my point. Their sponsors would never go along with that kind of illegal activities.
On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote: The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2.
I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc
Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now
It's specifically Kespa v. GOM. Kespa v. Kespa matches are pretty equal to (or even less than) GOM v. GOM matches in terms of excitement unless it's two big names playing each other (and then it's only best-of-one because of Kespa formats).
GOM v. Kespa trumps over any other storyline and I think we're all just angry that Kespa is robbing us of that for no other reason than to be giant dicks towards GOM.
On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote: The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2.
I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc
Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now
lol no they aren't. They find them very interesting to watch and it is intriguing to see how they get better but arguing over BW/Sc2 does not equal being more interested in them than the current best players. Although I suppose it depends on how you define their interest in this matter. Are stories about Kespa players quite interesting because they are new to SC2 and have a lot of hype around them? Yah. Is watching games between two Kespa players anywhere near as interesting as watching 2 Gom players? Doubtful. But meh. Pointless dicussion anyways since it depends on personal opinions.
Blizzard did not care about the BW scene, they were securing their IP rights for SC2. You are 100% incorrect about the outcome of that case, it settled with Blizzard getting the IP rights to SC2 and KeSPA admitting they needed blizzards approval to show SC2 on TV.
Blizzard couldn't even get what they wanted for BroodWar, and they've fully secured their rights for SC2? I don't think so. If KESPA decides to run an event Blizzard can fuck with it what only if their Logo isn't shown? I know that was their goal they weren't necessarily trying to kill BW, but get ready for the eventual switchover from BW, but you really think they won? I don't remember where those television companies/ KESPA said they had to have Blizzard approval for their events, but I will try to find the thread with the outcome again.
The #1 reason for no LAN is so Blizzard has 100% control of who can and cannot run tournaments for starcraft 2.
I still think KESPA could get around Blizzard's blacklisted IP restrictions, but if they have a license to hold events already according to that, they still do "own" the players. They don't have to cooperate with GOM at least not by law I don't think. And let's not kid ourselves they own the more intriguing players. JD players 44k views on vod and I can't load my player live, but when 2 GOM players are at it ~5k views. I don't see how Blizzard can force KESPA to have their players play in GOM.
They can do so through legal action if KeSPA breached the terms of the contract. I don't know the term in Korean law, but you can file a temporary restraining order in the US to enforce a term of a contract while the dispute is being settled. Apple just did it to Samsung in the US and several other markets with a phone, and Samsung cannot sell the phone any more. Also, the many of the Kespa members have America branches and do buisness there.
Because that's the law? I mean maybe you guys don't quite understand how IP works... You can't just set up a company that makes a profit off of another person's work without their permission (as stated a hundred times before - licensing). In BW from what I've read, they got away with it because there was no real way to enforce it. Despite the fact that KeSPA 'owns' the players, it still doesn't make what they do any more of a breach of intellectual property rights if they have all the power in Korea and Blizzard doesn't. It's not a play of power, it's a play of rights. Blizzard can do what they like and KeSPA can deal, regardless of how much money and sponsorship they have. It is though, in Blizzard's best interest to get on-side with KeSPA because of the huge potential domestic market.
I don't think you get my point. If the contract was only about having to pay a fee for the IP rights to hold an event then the OSL has already done that seeing as the OSL is about to start. If that is true then they aren't breaching their IP rights because Blizzard has been paid. The IP rights do not extend to Blizzard being able to control what KESPA or anyone does with their players. I don't think that Blizzard can force KESPA to share their players based off a TV/IP rights contract. Blizzard, however, can attempt to shut down an OSL by breaking their contract.
On August 24 2012 06:56 madsweepslol wrote:
On August 24 2012 06:32 NoobSkills wrote:If KESPA decides to run an event Blizzard can fuck with it what only if their Logo isn't shown?
Or they could, you know, simply disconnect OSL tourney's from their servers and shut KeSPA's sc2 efforts down cold. If shit ever went that far, anyways.
Yup agreed, but then Blizzard would be supporting GOM's way which isn't right either. At least quite a few players for KESPA make some money nowadays. I don't know about GOM teams (for sure), but most hint at no salary, just room and board, possible travel.
Wow...you realize those are all assumptions, yes?
You are giving KeSPA way too much credit here, imo. If Blizzard wanted to they could revoke KeSPA's rights to SC2 and if they can't put on a tournament, then why would the players care if they broke their rules. They do not own the players..if they wanted to break the rules they would simply be banned from kespa (and if KeSPA can not hold tourneys, who would care?), they would not be thrown in jail or anything like that.
As far as the GOM thing goes, you're making even more assumptions.
Yes, I do? You're right Blizzard could shut down OSL and then KESPA would have nothing for it's players to play in. Then what happens to the KESPA teams? Are they willing to kill that stability and structure to make them share players? Who knows. If it is too far of a reach then please explain why KESPA is holding back their players. If they're not ready to play for a GSL because the GSL players are too good, then why are the GSL players in the OSL? What other reason could they have for holding back their players other than attempting to weaken/destroy the competition.
As far as the GOM team's pay scale thing goes? Are you kidding me? That has been stated over and over again by so many pros that they're not paid or paid very little.
The thing I find funny is that there is a TON of money in the foreign scene and Kespa only seems mildly interested in getting in on that. If they wanted more money they would cooperate with Gom and grow the market instead of fighting over a small chunk which wont grow. Bad business practice imo.
I think they have their eyes on the foreign scene and are making preparations for it. The rumored English stream and working with MLG. Though I don't know how they feel about the MLG format.
My point was that "you are giving kespa too much credit" and if Blizzard wanted to they could play hard ball and kespa would have to comply. And because you haven't seem to check the OP, the reason that KeSPA did this is because of scheduling conflicts. My personal opinion is that it is bs and hopefully blizz will step in and inform them that this is not cooperation. If they want to do a "huge tournament" then they should inform us about it and let the players decide if they want to risk a scheduling conflict by participating in Code A, especially since they have expressed they want to play in it (from OP, again). And if they need more players then open it up to GOM players as well or even foreigners.
And as the GOM salary thing goes, players obviously don't receive the same accommodations as foreigners but it is also two very different situations: there is less space in korea so they can't have mansions, like some foreigner teams at other parts of the world, the quality of players is significantly higher in korea (ie. supply is greater, with equal demand..price decreases), AND if they really felt that underpaid, why not join a foreign team? especially since so many foreign teams have cooperation's with korean teams......My point is that it is not as bad as you make it out to be, and many others. Are they paid less and receive less, on average, yes most likely, but it only makes sense that it would be the case. Big name players get big money..
I completely agree that it is BS. Scheduling conflicts cannot be the reason if current Code S and I think a Code A players are able to do both why not the other way around? Proleague? They only play every so often, and it isn't like GOM casts weekends. You still don't think this is some sort of play, but this is how KESPA has rolled for years. Perhaps I am giving them too much credit, but how can Blizzard choose one side over the other? If they want to kill KESPA they're getting rid of the stability of teams that already function so well as well as an organization that has got sponsorships for leagues for years.
My point about the salaries wasn't about living conditions if that was where you were going, because I think the SC2 house vs the BW house are about similar for gaming houses. I think though your view on what they get paid is off though. I think a great ton of them get paid nothing even some of the BW pros. It isn't about how well they're doing now, or after the switch, it is about the status quo. A starting pro gamer enters a contract that pays him nothing because he isn't actually worth anything and that continues for quite some time, after you become a winner and/or are marketable that may change, but for the GOM players it has not changed for the most part.
Blizzard did not care about the BW scene, they were securing their IP rights for SC2. You are 100% incorrect about the outcome of that case, it settled with Blizzard getting the IP rights to SC2 and KeSPA admitting they needed blizzards approval to show SC2 on TV.
Blizzard couldn't even get what they wanted for BroodWar, and they've fully secured their rights for SC2? I don't think so. If KESPA decides to run an event Blizzard can fuck with it what only if their Logo isn't shown? I know that was their goal they weren't necessarily trying to kill BW, but get ready for the eventual switchover from BW, but you really think they won? I don't remember where those television companies/ KESPA said they had to have Blizzard approval for their events, but I will try to find the thread with the outcome again.
The #1 reason for no LAN is so Blizzard has 100% control of who can and cannot run tournaments for starcraft 2.
I still think KESPA could get around Blizzard's blacklisted IP restrictions, but if they have a license to hold events already according to that, they still do "own" the players. They don't have to cooperate with GOM at least not by law I don't think. And let's not kid ourselves they own the more intriguing players. JD players 44k views on vod and I can't load my player live, but when 2 GOM players are at it ~5k views. I don't see how Blizzard can force KESPA to have their players play in GOM.
They can do so through legal action if KeSPA breached the terms of the contract. I don't know the term in Korean law, but you can file a temporary restraining order in the US to enforce a term of a contract while the dispute is being settled. Apple just did it to Samsung in the US and several other markets with a phone, and Samsung cannot sell the phone any more. Also, the many of the Kespa members have America branches and do buisness there.
Because that's the law? I mean maybe you guys don't quite understand how IP works... You can't just set up a company that makes a profit off of another person's work without their permission (as stated a hundred times before - licensing). In BW from what I've read, they got away with it because there was no real way to enforce it. Despite the fact that KeSPA 'owns' the players, it still doesn't make what they do any more of a breach of intellectual property rights if they have all the power in Korea and Blizzard doesn't. It's not a play of power, it's a play of rights. Blizzard can do what they like and KeSPA can deal, regardless of how much money and sponsorship they have. It is though, in Blizzard's best interest to get on-side with KeSPA because of the huge potential domestic market.
I don't think you get my point. If the contract was only about having to pay a fee for the IP rights to hold an event then the OSL has already done that seeing as the OSL is about to start. If that is true then they aren't breaching their IP rights because Blizzard has been paid. The IP rights do not extend to Blizzard being able to control what KESPA or anyone does with their players. I don't think that Blizzard can force KESPA to share their players based off a TV/IP rights contract. Blizzard, however, can attempt to shut down an OSL by breaking their contract.
On August 24 2012 06:56 madsweepslol wrote:
On August 24 2012 06:32 NoobSkills wrote:If KESPA decides to run an event Blizzard can fuck with it what only if their Logo isn't shown?
Or they could, you know, simply disconnect OSL tourney's from their servers and shut KeSPA's sc2 efforts down cold. If shit ever went that far, anyways.
Yup agreed, but then Blizzard would be supporting GOM's way which isn't right either. At least quite a few players for KESPA make some money nowadays. I don't know about GOM teams (for sure), but most hint at no salary, just room and board, possible travel.
Wow...you realize those are all assumptions, yes?
You are giving KeSPA way too much credit here, imo. If Blizzard wanted to they could revoke KeSPA's rights to SC2 and if they can't put on a tournament, then why would the players care if they broke their rules. They do not own the players..if they wanted to break the rules they would simply be banned from kespa (and if KeSPA can not hold tourneys, who would care?), they would not be thrown in jail or anything like that.
As far as the GOM thing goes, you're making even more assumptions.
Yes, I do? You're right Blizzard could shut down OSL and then KESPA would have nothing for it's players to play in. Then what happens to the KESPA teams? Are they willing to kill that stability and structure to make them share players? Who knows. If it is too far of a reach then please explain why KESPA is holding back their players. If they're not ready to play for a GSL because the GSL players are too good, then why are the GSL players in the OSL? What other reason could they have for holding back their players other than attempting to weaken/destroy the competition.
As far as the GOM team's pay scale thing goes? Are you kidding me? That has been stated over and over again by so many pros that they're not paid or paid very little.
The thing I find funny is that there is a TON of money in the foreign scene and Kespa only seems mildly interested in getting in on that. If they wanted more money they would cooperate with Gom and grow the market instead of fighting over a small chunk which wont grow. Bad business practice imo.
I think they have their eyes on the foreign scene and are making preparations for it. The rumored English stream and working with MLG. Though I don't know how they feel about the MLG format.
My point was that "you are giving kespa too much credit" and if Blizzard wanted to they could play hard ball and kespa would have to comply. And because you haven't seemed to check the OP, the reason that KeSPA did this is because of scheduling conflicts. My personal opinion is that it is bs and hopefully blizz will step in and inform them that this is not cooperation. If they want to do a "huge tournament" then they should inform us about it and let the players decide if they want to risk a scheduling conflict by participating in Code A, especially since they have expressed they want to play in it (from OP, again). And if they need more players then open it up to GOM players as well or even foreigners.
And as the GOM salary thing goes, players obviously don't receive the same accommodations as foreigners but it is also two very different situations: there is less space in korea so they can't have mansions, like some foreigner teams at other parts of the world; the quality of players is significantly higher in korea (ie. supply is greater, with equal demand..price decreases); AND if they really felt that underpaid, why not join a foreign team? especially since so many foreign teams have cooperation's with korean teams......My point is that it is not as bad as you make it out to be, and many others. Are they paid less and receive less, on average, yes most likely, but it only makes sense that it would be the case. Big name players get big money..
If I were the NFL (Kespa) merging with arena football (Gom) I would have a problem with that too considering that our organization is what made the game successful in the first place without the use of the other companies. Giving Kespa "too much credit" is by far an understatement, considering what they have done with the Brood War franchise and the longevity of it's survival. Kespa set up teams, commentators, regulations, had connections with some of the major companies and even established a league with air time that accumulated a vast fan base. Those reasons alone are why Blizzard should not have filed a complaint or pursued the IP issues, much less have a problem with them broadcasting StarCraft two without a grant. Kespa has already paid for itself by the amount of sells StarCraft II received because they played a big role in its success. In otherwords, Kespa should have a choice in what they do and when they do it, because without them to begin with the StarCraft franchise would have died long ago.
On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote: The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2.
I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc
Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now
On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote: The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2.
I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc
Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now
Funniest thing I've read all day.
Talk about seeing what you want to see.
Why would anyone be interested in a bunch of B-teamers?
On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote: The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2.
I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc
Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now
Funniest thing I've read all day.
Talk about seeing what you want to see.
What do you want to see? The best sc1 players vs the old sc2 players? or just the sc2 players vs sc2 players and sc1 vs sc1. The point here is to see how fast they catch up. I get bored of watchign the same shit.
And as for sc2 vs sc2 or sc1 vs sc1. The better game skill wise to watch is sc2 vs sc2. The more interesting one though is sc1 vs sc1 as people want to see them grow.
"except for flash" ^ and you're talking about bias? lol. I love flash as much as the next guy but i could name a ton of players who I'd love to see stomp gom players.
edit: ^ most people who only follow sc2 only care for flash or jaedong because that's all they hear or know about. There are other players (jangbi, fantasy, stork etc.) who are doing just as well if not better than flash and jaedong
Blizzard couldn't even get what they wanted for BroodWar, and they've fully secured their rights for SC2? I don't think so. If KESPA decides to run an event Blizzard can fuck with it what only if their Logo isn't shown? I know that was their goal they weren't necessarily trying to kill BW, but get ready for the eventual switchover from BW, but you really think they won? I don't remember where those television companies/ KESPA said they had to have Blizzard approval for their events, but I will try to find the thread with the outcome again.
The #1 reason for no LAN is so Blizzard has 100% control of who can and cannot run tournaments for starcraft 2.
I still think KESPA could get around Blizzard's blacklisted IP restrictions, but if they have a license to hold events already according to that, they still do "own" the players. They don't have to cooperate with GOM at least not by law I don't think. And let's not kid ourselves they own the more intriguing players. JD players 44k views on vod and I can't load my player live, but when 2 GOM players are at it ~5k views. I don't see how Blizzard can force KESPA to have their players play in GOM.
They can do so through legal action if KeSPA breached the terms of the contract. I don't know the term in Korean law, but you can file a temporary restraining order in the US to enforce a term of a contract while the dispute is being settled. Apple just did it to Samsung in the US and several other markets with a phone, and Samsung cannot sell the phone any more. Also, the many of the Kespa members have America branches and do buisness there.
Because that's the law? I mean maybe you guys don't quite understand how IP works... You can't just set up a company that makes a profit off of another person's work without their permission (as stated a hundred times before - licensing). In BW from what I've read, they got away with it because there was no real way to enforce it. Despite the fact that KeSPA 'owns' the players, it still doesn't make what they do any more of a breach of intellectual property rights if they have all the power in Korea and Blizzard doesn't. It's not a play of power, it's a play of rights. Blizzard can do what they like and KeSPA can deal, regardless of how much money and sponsorship they have. It is though, in Blizzard's best interest to get on-side with KeSPA because of the huge potential domestic market.
I don't think you get my point. If the contract was only about having to pay a fee for the IP rights to hold an event then the OSL has already done that seeing as the OSL is about to start. If that is true then they aren't breaching their IP rights because Blizzard has been paid. The IP rights do not extend to Blizzard being able to control what KESPA or anyone does with their players. I don't think that Blizzard can force KESPA to share their players based off a TV/IP rights contract. Blizzard, however, can attempt to shut down an OSL by breaking their contract.
On August 24 2012 06:56 madsweepslol wrote:
On August 24 2012 06:32 NoobSkills wrote:If KESPA decides to run an event Blizzard can fuck with it what only if their Logo isn't shown?
Or they could, you know, simply disconnect OSL tourney's from their servers and shut KeSPA's sc2 efforts down cold. If shit ever went that far, anyways.
Yup agreed, but then Blizzard would be supporting GOM's way which isn't right either. At least quite a few players for KESPA make some money nowadays. I don't know about GOM teams (for sure), but most hint at no salary, just room and board, possible travel.
Wow...you realize those are all assumptions, yes?
You are giving KeSPA way too much credit here, imo. If Blizzard wanted to they could revoke KeSPA's rights to SC2 and if they can't put on a tournament, then why would the players care if they broke their rules. They do not own the players..if they wanted to break the rules they would simply be banned from kespa (and if KeSPA can not hold tourneys, who would care?), they would not be thrown in jail or anything like that.
As far as the GOM thing goes, you're making even more assumptions.
Yes, I do? You're right Blizzard could shut down OSL and then KESPA would have nothing for it's players to play in. Then what happens to the KESPA teams? Are they willing to kill that stability and structure to make them share players? Who knows. If it is too far of a reach then please explain why KESPA is holding back their players. If they're not ready to play for a GSL because the GSL players are too good, then why are the GSL players in the OSL? What other reason could they have for holding back their players other than attempting to weaken/destroy the competition.
As far as the GOM team's pay scale thing goes? Are you kidding me? That has been stated over and over again by so many pros that they're not paid or paid very little.
The thing I find funny is that there is a TON of money in the foreign scene and Kespa only seems mildly interested in getting in on that. If they wanted more money they would cooperate with Gom and grow the market instead of fighting over a small chunk which wont grow. Bad business practice imo.
I think they have their eyes on the foreign scene and are making preparations for it. The rumored English stream and working with MLG. Though I don't know how they feel about the MLG format.
My point was that "you are giving kespa too much credit" and if Blizzard wanted to they could play hard ball and kespa would have to comply. And because you haven't seemed to check the OP, the reason that KeSPA did this is because of scheduling conflicts. My personal opinion is that it is bs and hopefully blizz will step in and inform them that this is not cooperation. If they want to do a "huge tournament" then they should inform us about it and let the players decide if they want to risk a scheduling conflict by participating in Code A, especially since they have expressed they want to play in it (from OP, again). And if they need more players then open it up to GOM players as well or even foreigners.
And as the GOM salary thing goes, players obviously don't receive the same accommodations as foreigners but it is also two very different situations: there is less space in korea so they can't have mansions, like some foreigner teams at other parts of the world; the quality of players is significantly higher in korea (ie. supply is greater, with equal demand..price decreases); AND if they really felt that underpaid, why not join a foreign team? especially since so many foreign teams have cooperation's with korean teams......My point is that it is not as bad as you make it out to be, and many others. Are they paid less and receive less, on average, yes most likely, but it only makes sense that it would be the case. Big name players get big money..
If I were the NFL (Kespa) merging with arena football (Gom) I would have a problem with that too considering that our organization is what made the game successful in the first place without the use of the other companies. Giving Kespa "too much credit" is by far an understatement, considering what they have done with the Brood War franchise and the longevity of it's survival. Kespa set up teams, commentators, regulations, had connections with some of the major companies and even established a league with air time that accumulated a vast fan base. Those reasons alone are why Blizzard should not have filed a complaint or pursued the IP issues, much less have a problem with them broadcasting StarCraft two without a grant. Kespa has already paid for itself by the amount of sells StarCraft II received because they played a big role in its success. In otherwords, Kespa should have a choice in what they do and when they do it, because without them to begin with the StarCraft franchise would have died long ago.
But kespa hasn't done anything for SC2, they transitioned over to it in hopes of making money. Kespa did not make SC2 popular, and they certainly aren't trying to progress SC2 it seems, as they are once again trying to kill off competition, which is the opposite of progress. Blizzard owes kespa nothing, and honestly I hope they force kespa to cooperate with gom or shut kespa down.
On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote: The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2.
I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc
Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now
Funniest thing I've read all day.
Talk about seeing what you want to see.
What do you want to see?
I want to see the best korean SC2 players matched against each other, and the GSL provides me with that.
I know you BW fans want your to think the SC2 scene can't survive without your precious a-teamers, but believe or not SC2 has built a very respectable scene by its own. You did not build this scene, you are not the most important cogs within it. Deal with it.
Blizzard couldn't even get what they wanted for BroodWar, and they've fully secured their rights for SC2? I don't think so. If KESPA decides to run an event Blizzard can fuck with it what only if their Logo isn't shown? I know that was their goal they weren't necessarily trying to kill BW, but get ready for the eventual switchover from BW, but you really think they won? I don't remember where those television companies/ KESPA said they had to have Blizzard approval for their events, but I will try to find the thread with the outcome again.
The #1 reason for no LAN is so Blizzard has 100% control of who can and cannot run tournaments for starcraft 2.
I still think KESPA could get around Blizzard's blacklisted IP restrictions, but if they have a license to hold events already according to that, they still do "own" the players. They don't have to cooperate with GOM at least not by law I don't think. And let's not kid ourselves they own the more intriguing players. JD players 44k views on vod and I can't load my player live, but when 2 GOM players are at it ~5k views. I don't see how Blizzard can force KESPA to have their players play in GOM.
They can do so through legal action if KeSPA breached the terms of the contract. I don't know the term in Korean law, but you can file a temporary restraining order in the US to enforce a term of a contract while the dispute is being settled. Apple just did it to Samsung in the US and several other markets with a phone, and Samsung cannot sell the phone any more. Also, the many of the Kespa members have America branches and do buisness there.
Because that's the law? I mean maybe you guys don't quite understand how IP works... You can't just set up a company that makes a profit off of another person's work without their permission (as stated a hundred times before - licensing). In BW from what I've read, they got away with it because there was no real way to enforce it. Despite the fact that KeSPA 'owns' the players, it still doesn't make what they do any more of a breach of intellectual property rights if they have all the power in Korea and Blizzard doesn't. It's not a play of power, it's a play of rights. Blizzard can do what they like and KeSPA can deal, regardless of how much money and sponsorship they have. It is though, in Blizzard's best interest to get on-side with KeSPA because of the huge potential domestic market.
I don't think you get my point. If the contract was only about having to pay a fee for the IP rights to hold an event then the OSL has already done that seeing as the OSL is about to start. If that is true then they aren't breaching their IP rights because Blizzard has been paid. The IP rights do not extend to Blizzard being able to control what KESPA or anyone does with their players. I don't think that Blizzard can force KESPA to share their players based off a TV/IP rights contract. Blizzard, however, can attempt to shut down an OSL by breaking their contract.
On August 24 2012 06:56 madsweepslol wrote:
On August 24 2012 06:32 NoobSkills wrote:If KESPA decides to run an event Blizzard can fuck with it what only if their Logo isn't shown?
Or they could, you know, simply disconnect OSL tourney's from their servers and shut KeSPA's sc2 efforts down cold. If shit ever went that far, anyways.
Yup agreed, but then Blizzard would be supporting GOM's way which isn't right either. At least quite a few players for KESPA make some money nowadays. I don't know about GOM teams (for sure), but most hint at no salary, just room and board, possible travel.
Wow...you realize those are all assumptions, yes?
You are giving KeSPA way too much credit here, imo. If Blizzard wanted to they could revoke KeSPA's rights to SC2 and if they can't put on a tournament, then why would the players care if they broke their rules. They do not own the players..if they wanted to break the rules they would simply be banned from kespa (and if KeSPA can not hold tourneys, who would care?), they would not be thrown in jail or anything like that.
As far as the GOM thing goes, you're making even more assumptions.
Yes, I do? You're right Blizzard could shut down OSL and then KESPA would have nothing for it's players to play in. Then what happens to the KESPA teams? Are they willing to kill that stability and structure to make them share players? Who knows. If it is too far of a reach then please explain why KESPA is holding back their players. If they're not ready to play for a GSL because the GSL players are too good, then why are the GSL players in the OSL? What other reason could they have for holding back their players other than attempting to weaken/destroy the competition.
As far as the GOM team's pay scale thing goes? Are you kidding me? That has been stated over and over again by so many pros that they're not paid or paid very little.
The thing I find funny is that there is a TON of money in the foreign scene and Kespa only seems mildly interested in getting in on that. If they wanted more money they would cooperate with Gom and grow the market instead of fighting over a small chunk which wont grow. Bad business practice imo.
I think they have their eyes on the foreign scene and are making preparations for it. The rumored English stream and working with MLG. Though I don't know how they feel about the MLG format.
My point was that "you are giving kespa too much credit" and if Blizzard wanted to they could play hard ball and kespa would have to comply. And because you haven't seemed to check the OP, the reason that KeSPA did this is because of scheduling conflicts. My personal opinion is that it is bs and hopefully blizz will step in and inform them that this is not cooperation. If they want to do a "huge tournament" then they should inform us about it and let the players decide if they want to risk a scheduling conflict by participating in Code A, especially since they have expressed they want to play in it (from OP, again). And if they need more players then open it up to GOM players as well or even foreigners.
And as the GOM salary thing goes, players obviously don't receive the same accommodations as foreigners but it is also two very different situations: there is less space in korea so they can't have mansions, like some foreigner teams at other parts of the world; the quality of players is significantly higher in korea (ie. supply is greater, with equal demand..price decreases); AND if they really felt that underpaid, why not join a foreign team? especially since so many foreign teams have cooperation's with korean teams......My point is that it is not as bad as you make it out to be, and many others. Are they paid less and receive less, on average, yes most likely, but it only makes sense that it would be the case. Big name players get big money..
If I were the NFL (Kespa) merging with arena football (Gom) I would have a problem with that too considering that our organization is what made the game successful in the first place without the use of the other companies. Giving Kespa "too much credit" is by far an understatement, considering what they have done with the Brood War franchise and the longevity of it's survival. Kespa set up teams, commentators, regulations, had connections with some of the major companies and even established a league with air time that accumulated a vast fan base. Those reasons alone are why Blizzard should not have filed a complaint or pursued the IP issues, much less have a problem with them broadcasting StarCraft two without a grant. Kespa has already paid for itself by the amount of sells StarCraft II received because they played a big role in its success. In otherwords, Kespa should have a choice in what they do and when they do it, because without them to begin with the StarCraft franchise would have died long ago.
You completely missed my point and your analogy is terrible. No one owns football. SC2 is blizzards game, they made it, they own it, and they have the rights to it, period. You are most certainly correct that Kespa made BW into what it became...and GOM helped SC2 grow (also partly off the back of BW's popularity). BUT my point was/is that Blizzard still owns the game, it is their game. If Kespa is not going to help grow esports (again) by not cooperating (like they said they would) then blizzard can shut them down....ie blizzard is king because it is their game..same with BW.
On August 24 2012 08:09 starojda wrote: It is not the last GSL so I would not make so much noise about it...
It's the second GSL they pulled out.
Which is why original post says:
On August 23 2012 16:43 TheAmazombie wrote: Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
They were supposed to enter the last GSL as hinted at Blizz/GOM/KeSPA joint thing, but they pulled out for being not ready. They had a point then so it wasn't a big deal. But they can't use the same excuse for being not ready when GSL players are in the OSL.
On August 24 2012 07:39 AnomalySC2 wrote: The most interesting players in sc2 right now are the kespa pros, what a shame. Effort actually uses Zerg's rushes (rofl). Soulkey makes infestors look way imba. By.Sun seemingly is able to win any scenario you put him in with blink stalker micro alone. Jaedong is Jaedong. Flash is Flash. The list goes on and on. Imo this is the most interesting time to be a fan of sc2.
I don't find them the most interesting. I find them more interesting than the average SC2 players but I still much prefer players like Squirtle etc
Well, that's just you. Seems like the majority of TL is more interested in kespa right now
Funniest thing I've read all day.
Talk about seeing what you want to see.
What do you want to see?
I want to see the best korean SC2 players matched against each other, and the GSL provides me with that.
I know you BW fans want your to think the SC2 scene can't survive without your precious a-teamers, but believe or not SC2 has built a very respectable scene by its own. You did not build this scene, you are not the most important cogs within it. Deal with it.
I'll tell you what I want to see then. The eventual best sc2 players matched up against the current best sc2 players. And kespa robbed me of that =(
Btw, I'm not a bw fan boy lolz. I played bw after i got into sc2 beta to see what I missed out. Nice generalization though
EPT
