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On August 20 2012 15:52 Luoson wrote:
That was just an example, Another one is you cant go a standard build if he 6 pools or proxy gateways u and your the last spot you scout on a 4 player map
If he 6 pools you on a 4 player map he's a dumbass because he also has to scout which reduces the strength of 6 pool massively, plus 4 player maps are usually larger. You should have more than enough time to hold off a 6pool especially if you went something normal like gate on top of your ramp at 12.
Edit: Also there's no random advantage there. The way to hold off any of those is basically the same -_-'' You're just saying cheese is impossible to hold off if you last scout on a 4 player map (which is untrue anyway)
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I want to play all three races because I like them all and I get 9 matchups instead of 3. The way I see it, I have 2 options to do so: Either I handpick and switch between the races or I play random. I'm a diamond level protoss and zerg, but platinum level (at best) terran. If I play 10 games protoss, 10 games zerg and then 10 games terran I usually go something like 7-3, 6-4, 2-8 because my MMR goes up first as I play toss & zerg and then plummets as I get destroyed as terran. So if I want my MMR to stay more stable I have to switch races every game anyway so It's easier to just keep it on random. I would love to hand pick my race if i could have a different MMR for every race, maybe even different ladder ranks.
Oh, and about randoms being cheesy and whatnot, I almost always play "straight up" macro games unless I see a really greedy build or a weakness I can take advantage of. Quite often I get blindly proxy gated/6 pooled/proxy raxed by someone who says "randoms always cheese so I cheese them first." Oh, and I tell my race when my opponent asks.
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Would anyone agree with me that when you choose random it should shows the race of the random player at the load screen? Would solve the problem...
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On August 20 2012 15:18 boxman22 wrote:
Playing random is not much of an advantage. All those people whining about the random advantage should notice that no pros play random. Wanna know why? There's too much to learn to get to a highly competitive level. People who play random and want to be competitve should pick a race. People who play for fun can play random and do at least slightly better with the little advantage you get.
I played random for around a year and topped out in plat for a couple months. I picked a race and within 2 weeks moved up to diamond and am still improving. It's really hard to play random well. I don't know why people complain.
Implying everyone plays in grand masters. Seriously, random players might just like or dislike a given match-up, which is normal, but they use the fact that the opponent is in the dark to get a big lead/cheese. I am still loosing games when I open 15 hatch and the random player goes for an early pool, and the only early pools I had to face were frome rnds.
On August 20 2012 15:36 boxman22 wrote:
OH NO YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER HOW TO 1 GATE OR 3 GATE EXPAND!!!! HOW TERRIBLE!!!
You don't have to say your race in tournaments. The majority of tournaments accept random players. It's just not much of an advantage. You say a player might be really good with one race, well then what happens when he gets the other two? There isn't an advantage compared to how much extra time has to be put in to learn 3x the matchups...
Or, to all these people who think it's unbalanced: Try it. I dare you. You'll find yourself losing way more. It's not an advantage.
So what? I do not think that I have to lose games just because my opponent is unemployed and plays the whole day. Have you ever played vs random as non random? try it. I dare you (lol). 75% of the games you get cheesed or all-inned, in the other, you spend your time looking for the cheese. And to thoose saying they tell their opponent which race they got, that is not helpfull, there are enough random "players" who lie about this.
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It wastes my time and I've grown to really hate randoms. I usually have to do a bad opening that will counter their cheese and render the game useless, which really makes no sense as to why random would cheese when they will almost certainly be scouted earlier than usual; otherwise, they play a fairly normal game in which they just don't play very well.
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On August 20 2012 16:06 Svenny90 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 15:18 boxman22 wrote:
Playing random is not much of an advantage. All those people whining about the random advantage should notice that no pros play random. Wanna know why? There's too much to learn to get to a highly competitive level. People who play random and want to be competitve should pick a race. People who play for fun can play random and do at least slightly better with the little advantage you get.
I played random for around a year and topped out in plat for a couple months. I picked a race and within 2 weeks moved up to diamond and am still improving. It's really hard to play random well. I don't know why people complain. Implying everyone plays in grand masters. Seriously, random players might just like or dislike a given match-up, which is normal, but they use the fact that the opponent is in the dark to get a big lead/cheese. I am still loosing games when I open 15 hatch and the random player goes for an early pool, and the only early pools I had to face were frome rnds. Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 15:36 boxman22 wrote:
OH NO YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER HOW TO 1 GATE OR 3 GATE EXPAND!!!! HOW TERRIBLE!!!
You don't have to say your race in tournaments. The majority of tournaments accept random players. It's just not much of an advantage. You say a player might be really good with one race, well then what happens when he gets the other two? There isn't an advantage compared to how much extra time has to be put in to learn 3x the matchups...
Or, to all these people who think it's unbalanced: Try it. I dare you. You'll find yourself losing way more. It's not an advantage. So what? I do not think that I have to lose games just because my opponent is unemployed and plays the whole day. Have you ever played vs random as non random? try it. I dare you (lol). 75% of the games you get cheesed or all-inned, in the other, you spend your time looking for the cheese. And to thoose saying they tell their opponent which race they got, that is not helpfull, there are enough random "players" who lie about this.
If you actually read my posts you quoted, I specifically said I did pick a race. I play toss so I face the "horrendous" PvRZ where you have to GATE EXPAND O.O And to those who say only randoms all-in, LOOOOL. Such bullshit. At best it's a little more common from randoms, but not even that much more likely.
Edit: Also if you face so many early pools, just do a slightly more defensive build and crush them in a macro game. Supposedly all they can do is cheese. And if you only know one build, then there's another problem eh?
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If blizzard does a unraked ladder like they have promised, maybe its the right place to be a random?
People are hating random so much, ok you can say them are childish, but its a "culture" factor growing..
like 2v2 from broodwar experience, the ideas are changing..
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On August 20 2012 16:06 nicknack wrote:
Would anyone agree with me that when you choose random it should shows the race of the random player at the load screen? Would solve the problem...
I would be fine with this. (As a random player).
On August 20 2012 16:06 Svenny90 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 15:36 boxman22 wrote:
OH NO YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER HOW TO 1 GATE OR 3 GATE EXPAND!!!! HOW TERRIBLE!!!
You don't have to say your race in tournaments. The majority of tournaments accept random players. It's just not much of an advantage. You say a player might be really good with one race, well then what happens when he gets the other two? There isn't an advantage compared to how much extra time has to be put in to learn 3x the matchups...
Or, to all these people who think it's unbalanced: Try it. I dare you. You'll find yourself losing way more. It's not an advantage. So what? I do not think that I have to lose games just because my opponent is unemployed and plays the whole day.
lol, what?
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On August 20 2012 15:55 boxman22 wrote:
If he 6 pools you on a 4 player map he's a dumbass because he also has to scout which reduces the strength of 6 pool massively, plus 4 player maps are usually larger.
You're wrong. 6 pool is actually stronger on 4 player maps, zerg knows in time which spawn you are even if he scouts after he has enough minerals for 6 first lings and there's possibility protoss scouts wrong direction first and doesn't see it coming. Another reason why random race and random spawns on map are bad.
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On August 20 2012 16:18 Ogww wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 15:55 boxman22 wrote:
If he 6 pools you on a 4 player map he's a dumbass because he also has to scout which reduces the strength of 6 pool massively, plus 4 player maps are usually larger. You're wrong. 6 pool is actually stronger on 4 player maps, zerg knows in time which spawn you are even if he scouts after he has enough minerals for 6 first lings and there's possibility protoss scouts wrong direction first and doesn't see it coming. Another reason why random race and random spawns on map are bad.
If you scout after pylon and built pylon and gate on top of ramp, you should scout before the lings can reach your base no matter what and be able to wall off.
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On August 20 2012 16:21 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 16:18 Ogww wrote:On August 20 2012 15:55 boxman22 wrote:
If he 6 pools you on a 4 player map he's a dumbass because he also has to scout which reduces the strength of 6 pool massively, plus 4 player maps are usually larger. You're wrong. 6 pool is actually stronger on 4 player maps, zerg knows in time which spawn you are even if he scouts after he has enough minerals for 6 first lings and there's possibility protoss scouts wrong direction first and doesn't see it coming. Another reason why random race and random spawns on map are bad. If you scout after pylon and built pylon and gate on top of ramp, you should scout before the lings can reach your base no matter what and be able to wall off.
I don't think that's the case on Taldarim unless you doublescout, but I might be wrong as I dont play zerg nor protoss anymore.
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On August 20 2012 16:06 nicknack wrote:
Would anyone agree with me that when you choose random it should shows the race of the random player at the load screen? Would solve the problem...
There is no problem. There are two kinds of people responding here who don't play random: those who've simply found a way to adapt and play well against random players, and those who refuse to learn/figure out how to play against them and instead just whine about it.
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On August 20 2012 16:35 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 16:06 nicknack wrote:
Would anyone agree with me that when you choose random it should shows the race of the random player at the load screen? Would solve the problem... There is no problem. There are two kinds of people responding here who don't play random: those who've simply found a way to adapt and play well against random players, and those who refuse to learn/figure out how to play against them and instead just whine about it.
Also there's two kinds of people playing random; those who want to play every race, and those who want to play every race with an information advantage.
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On August 20 2012 16:34 Ogww wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 16:21 boxman22 wrote:On August 20 2012 16:18 Ogww wrote:On August 20 2012 15:55 boxman22 wrote:
If he 6 pools you on a 4 player map he's a dumbass because he also has to scout which reduces the strength of 6 pool massively, plus 4 player maps are usually larger. You're wrong. 6 pool is actually stronger on 4 player maps, zerg knows in time which spawn you are even if he scouts after he has enough minerals for 6 first lings and there's possibility protoss scouts wrong direction first and doesn't see it coming. Another reason why random race and random spawns on map are bad. If you scout after pylon and built pylon and gate on top of ramp, you should scout before the lings can reach your base no matter what and be able to wall off. I don't think that's the case on Taldarim unless you doublescout, but I might be wrong as I dont play zerg nor protoss anymore.
Well I hate taldarim anyway and have it banned. What toss would ever want to do 4gate wars? It's such a terrible map for pvp. I don't even know if it's still in the ladder pool because I just haven't bothered with it in so long -_-
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It could be fixed so easily by Blizzard making it so that the race is shown on the load screen. That way players can enjoy having a random race, while their opponents aren't punished for their choices.
EDIT: And if your argument is "Random should get an advantage because it's harder to play", then my counter-argument is that Blizzard should allow us filter away random games. If they can pick to have an advantage, I should be able to pick so I'm not matched against players using that advantage.
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On August 20 2012 16:37 Ogww wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 16:35 GolemMadness wrote:On August 20 2012 16:06 nicknack wrote:
Would anyone agree with me that when you choose random it should shows the race of the random player at the load screen? Would solve the problem... There is no problem. There are two kinds of people responding here who don't play random: those who've simply found a way to adapt and play well against random players, and those who refuse to learn/figure out how to play against them and instead just whine about it. Also there's two kinds of people playing random; those who want to play every race, and those who want to play every race with an information advantage.
Again if you think the information advantage is sooo large, try and play random. See how it works out for you.
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On August 20 2012 16:38 Tobberoth wrote:
It could be fixed so easily by Blizzard making it so that the race is shown on the load screen. That way players can enjoy having a random race, while their opponents aren't punished for their choices.
I hate PvT, therefore I am punished any time you play terran. I have read many people don't like playing against terrans. Therefore blizzard should ban terran so their opponents aren't punished for their choices.
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On August 20 2012 16:39 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 16:38 Tobberoth wrote:
It could be fixed so easily by Blizzard making it so that the race is shown on the load screen. That way players can enjoy having a random race, while their opponents aren't punished for their choices. I hate PvT, therefore I am punished any time you play terran. I have read many people don't like playing against terrans. Therefore blizzard should ban terran so their opponents aren't punished for their choices.
There's a big difference disliking a certain matchup, and disliking your opponent having an unfair advantage, forcing you to play badly. You might suck against a terran, but at least you can improve your build and learn from every match, but there's nothing to learn from a game vs a random who wins because you had to do a shitty opening.
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On August 20 2012 16:38 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 16:37 Ogww wrote:On August 20 2012 16:35 GolemMadness wrote:On August 20 2012 16:06 nicknack wrote:
Would anyone agree with me that when you choose random it should shows the race of the random player at the load screen? Would solve the problem... There is no problem. There are two kinds of people responding here who don't play random: those who've simply found a way to adapt and play well against random players, and those who refuse to learn/figure out how to play against them and instead just whine about it. Also there's two kinds of people playing random; those who want to play every race, and those who want to play every race with an information advantage. Again if you think the information advantage is sooo large, try and play random. See how it works out for you.
It's not that large, it's retarded design.
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On August 20 2012 16:43 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 16:39 boxman22 wrote:On August 20 2012 16:38 Tobberoth wrote:
It could be fixed so easily by Blizzard making it so that the race is shown on the load screen. That way players can enjoy having a random race, while their opponents aren't punished for their choices. I hate PvT, therefore I am punished any time you play terran. I have read many people don't like playing against terrans. Therefore blizzard should ban terran so their opponents aren't punished for their choices. There's a big difference disliking a certain matchup, and disliking your opponent having an unfair advantage, forcing you to play badly. You might suck against a terran, but at least you can improve your build and learn from every match, but there's nothing to learn from a game vs a random who wins because you had to do a shitty opening.
Give me one example of a game you couldn't learn from because you had to do a shitty opening. Random has next to no advantage at all. The only one where MAAAYBE they have an advantage is ZvP, but gate expands aren't as bad as everyone thinks.
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EPT
