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On August 20 2012 08:54 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:52 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:I feel that of all races, toss is the most affected by playing against random, as the creator of the post said, it is fine if the opponent is Terran or Protoss, but zerg is the problem, not being able to ffe.
For terran and zerg, they are not really that affected by random players (or so it seems, i'm not sure) for zerg, they can just 15 hatch vs all 3 races and be OK, (for the most part) and terran can just 1 tax fe. hatch first VS protoss is as much an insta lose as no FFE VS Zerg (possiby more so) plus as toss or terran playing a random you have to wall in at the high ground which can be exploited by your opponent What level are you? I hate bringing out this argument, but hatch first is NOT insta-loss vs FFE. I hatch-first a LOT at high masters. Also - you do NOT have to wall in at high ground... Terrans typically wall in at high ground against all races so it's fine. Protoss - you can just build near your base - see White-Ra. Even against Zerg he doesn't high-ground wall-off - you can hold 6/7/8 pool without a highground wall. if you hatch first they pylon block your ramp or cannon rush you and collect there free win if they dont do that then there dumb
You can block it with drones. I've stopped many cannon rushes - you get experience doing it.
But the point stands - 2/3 of the time on a 4-player map you will know your opponent is a Protoss so if you really don't want to hatch-first, then fine. Nerchio sends out a scout in ZvP (12scout) now, so the 9scout isn't a huge loss - you can use it to block a FFE nexus.
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On August 20 2012 08:54 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +Then if it was an early pool, you lose. But the other 67% you scout the early pool in the other two positions it's an insta-win. I'll take those odds anyday. holding an ealry pool is 100% your opening BO not how soon you scout it no matter how soon you know its coming if you 15 hatch and he pulls all his drones your dead
Do you even play?
You 9scout - 2/3 of the time you will see your opponent's early pool before you put the hatch down - you can transition into a 15pool and hold easy.
EDIT: Before the 15pool became popular as a standard build top level pros like Dimaga 9scouted all the time.
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On August 20 2012 08:54 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:54 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:52 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:I feel that of all races, toss is the most affected by playing against random, as the creator of the post said, it is fine if the opponent is Terran or Protoss, but zerg is the problem, not being able to ffe.
For terran and zerg, they are not really that affected by random players (or so it seems, i'm not sure) for zerg, they can just 15 hatch vs all 3 races and be OK, (for the most part) and terran can just 1 tax fe. hatch first VS protoss is as much an insta lose as no FFE VS Zerg (possiby more so) plus as toss or terran playing a random you have to wall in at the high ground which can be exploited by your opponent What level are you? I hate bringing out this argument, but hatch first is NOT insta-loss vs FFE. I hatch-first a LOT at high masters. Also - you do NOT have to wall in at high ground... Terrans typically wall in at high ground against all races so it's fine. Protoss - you can just build near your base - see White-Ra. Even against Zerg he doesn't high-ground wall-off - you can hold 6/7/8 pool without a highground wall. if you hatch first they pylon block your ramp or cannon rush you and collect there free win if they dont do that then there dumb You can block it with drones. I've stopped many cannon rushes - you get experience doing it. But the point stands - 2/3 of the time on a 4-player map you will know your opponent is a Protoss so if you really don't want to hatch-first, then fine. Nerchio sends out a scout in ZvP (12scout) now, so the 9scout isn't a huge loss - you can use it to block a FFE nexus.
i dont know why he 12 scouts but i can gurantee it is 100% unneccesary lings/overlord will let you know its FFE before you drop your third anyway
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On August 20 2012 08:54 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:52 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:I feel that of all races, toss is the most affected by playing against random, as the creator of the post said, it is fine if the opponent is Terran or Protoss, but zerg is the problem, not being able to ffe.
For terran and zerg, they are not really that affected by random players (or so it seems, i'm not sure) for zerg, they can just 15 hatch vs all 3 races and be OK, (for the most part) and terran can just 1 tax fe. hatch first VS protoss is as much an insta lose as no FFE VS Zerg (possiby more so) plus as toss or terran playing a random you have to wall in at the high ground which can be exploited by your opponent What level are you? I hate bringing out this argument, but hatch first is NOT insta-loss vs FFE. I hatch-first a LOT at high masters. Also - you do NOT have to wall in at high ground... Terrans typically wall in at high ground against all races so it's fine. Protoss - you can just build near your base - see White-Ra. Even against Zerg he doesn't high-ground wall-off - you can hold 6/7/8 pool without a highground wall. if you hatch first they pylon block your ramp or cannon rush you and collect there free win if they dont do that then there dumb
Pylon block... wow, you not that that has been solved like a year ago!?
cannon rush works brilliant as long as Zerg doesn't expect it.... honestly you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, go play bronce and tell high master/gm players that you can send 9 and 12 scout with no problem against 4Gate 
User was warned for this post
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On August 20 2012 08:56 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:54 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:52 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:I feel that of all races, toss is the most affected by playing against random, as the creator of the post said, it is fine if the opponent is Terran or Protoss, but zerg is the problem, not being able to ffe.
For terran and zerg, they are not really that affected by random players (or so it seems, i'm not sure) for zerg, they can just 15 hatch vs all 3 races and be OK, (for the most part) and terran can just 1 tax fe. hatch first VS protoss is as much an insta lose as no FFE VS Zerg (possiby more so) plus as toss or terran playing a random you have to wall in at the high ground which can be exploited by your opponent What level are you? I hate bringing out this argument, but hatch first is NOT insta-loss vs FFE. I hatch-first a LOT at high masters. Also - you do NOT have to wall in at high ground... Terrans typically wall in at high ground against all races so it's fine. Protoss - you can just build near your base - see White-Ra. Even against Zerg he doesn't high-ground wall-off - you can hold 6/7/8 pool without a highground wall. if you hatch first they pylon block your ramp or cannon rush you and collect there free win if they dont do that then there dumb Pylon block... wow, you not that that has been solved like a year ago!? cannon rush works brilliant as long as Zerg doesn't expect it.... honestly you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, go play bronce and tell high master/gm players that you can send 9 and 12 scout with no problem against 4Gate
pylon block was solved by putting a neutral depot by the ramp, no neutral depot in ladder maps...
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On August 20 2012 08:56 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:56 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 08:54 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:52 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:I feel that of all races, toss is the most affected by playing against random, as the creator of the post said, it is fine if the opponent is Terran or Protoss, but zerg is the problem, not being able to ffe.
For terran and zerg, they are not really that affected by random players (or so it seems, i'm not sure) for zerg, they can just 15 hatch vs all 3 races and be OK, (for the most part) and terran can just 1 tax fe. hatch first VS protoss is as much an insta lose as no FFE VS Zerg (possiby more so) plus as toss or terran playing a random you have to wall in at the high ground which can be exploited by your opponent What level are you? I hate bringing out this argument, but hatch first is NOT insta-loss vs FFE. I hatch-first a LOT at high masters. Also - you do NOT have to wall in at high ground... Terrans typically wall in at high ground against all races so it's fine. Protoss - you can just build near your base - see White-Ra. Even against Zerg he doesn't high-ground wall-off - you can hold 6/7/8 pool without a highground wall. if you hatch first they pylon block your ramp or cannon rush you and collect there free win if they dont do that then there dumb Pylon block... wow, you not that that has been solved like a year ago!? cannon rush works brilliant as long as Zerg doesn't expect it.... honestly you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, go play bronce and tell high master/gm players that you can send 9 and 12 scout with no problem against 4Gate pylon block was solved by putting a neutral depot by the ramp, no neutral depot in ladder maps...
yeah also you can make all of your drones attack the pylon at the same time -.-
This way.
I see you must be very well informed and up to date on SC2
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On August 20 2012 08:56 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:54 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:54 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:52 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:I feel that of all races, toss is the most affected by playing against random, as the creator of the post said, it is fine if the opponent is Terran or Protoss, but zerg is the problem, not being able to ffe.
For terran and zerg, they are not really that affected by random players (or so it seems, i'm not sure) for zerg, they can just 15 hatch vs all 3 races and be OK, (for the most part) and terran can just 1 tax fe. hatch first VS protoss is as much an insta lose as no FFE VS Zerg (possiby more so) plus as toss or terran playing a random you have to wall in at the high ground which can be exploited by your opponent What level are you? I hate bringing out this argument, but hatch first is NOT insta-loss vs FFE. I hatch-first a LOT at high masters. Also - you do NOT have to wall in at high ground... Terrans typically wall in at high ground against all races so it's fine. Protoss - you can just build near your base - see White-Ra. Even against Zerg he doesn't high-ground wall-off - you can hold 6/7/8 pool without a highground wall. if you hatch first they pylon block your ramp or cannon rush you and collect there free win if they dont do that then there dumb You can block it with drones. I've stopped many cannon rushes - you get experience doing it. But the point stands - 2/3 of the time on a 4-player map you will know your opponent is a Protoss so if you really don't want to hatch-first, then fine. Nerchio sends out a scout in ZvP (12scout) now, so the 9scout isn't a huge loss - you can use it to block a FFE nexus. i dont know why he 12 scouts but i can gurantee it is 100% unneccesary lings/overlord will let you know its FFE before you drop your third anyway
Because you can block Protoss nexus for a long time.
I'm not wasting any more of my time here, you're just set that Random players have this huge hidden advantage - my guess is seeing a random player tilts you and you end up losing lots. Or you just end up cheesing against random players.
So, as other people said: Learn to play and it won't be a problem.
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On August 20 2012 08:57 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:56 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:56 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 08:54 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:52 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:I feel that of all races, toss is the most affected by playing against random, as the creator of the post said, it is fine if the opponent is Terran or Protoss, but zerg is the problem, not being able to ffe.
For terran and zerg, they are not really that affected by random players (or so it seems, i'm not sure) for zerg, they can just 15 hatch vs all 3 races and be OK, (for the most part) and terran can just 1 tax fe. hatch first VS protoss is as much an insta lose as no FFE VS Zerg (possiby more so) plus as toss or terran playing a random you have to wall in at the high ground which can be exploited by your opponent What level are you? I hate bringing out this argument, but hatch first is NOT insta-loss vs FFE. I hatch-first a LOT at high masters. Also - you do NOT have to wall in at high ground... Terrans typically wall in at high ground against all races so it's fine. Protoss - you can just build near your base - see White-Ra. Even against Zerg he doesn't high-ground wall-off - you can hold 6/7/8 pool without a highground wall. if you hatch first they pylon block your ramp or cannon rush you and collect there free win if they dont do that then there dumb Pylon block... wow, you not that that has been solved like a year ago!? cannon rush works brilliant as long as Zerg doesn't expect it.... honestly you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, go play bronce and tell high master/gm players that you can send 9 and 12 scout with no problem against 4Gate pylon block was solved by putting a neutral depot by the ramp, no neutral depot in ladder maps... yeah also you can make all of your drones attack the pylon at the same time -.-
you realise im talking about WALLLING in the ramp with pylons? cant get suround when your drones cant get past the ramp
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On August 20 2012 08:58 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:57 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 08:56 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:56 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 08:54 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:52 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:I feel that of all races, toss is the most affected by playing against random, as the creator of the post said, it is fine if the opponent is Terran or Protoss, but zerg is the problem, not being able to ffe.
For terran and zerg, they are not really that affected by random players (or so it seems, i'm not sure) for zerg, they can just 15 hatch vs all 3 races and be OK, (for the most part) and terran can just 1 tax fe. hatch first VS protoss is as much an insta lose as no FFE VS Zerg (possiby more so) plus as toss or terran playing a random you have to wall in at the high ground which can be exploited by your opponent What level are you? I hate bringing out this argument, but hatch first is NOT insta-loss vs FFE. I hatch-first a LOT at high masters. Also - you do NOT have to wall in at high ground... Terrans typically wall in at high ground against all races so it's fine. Protoss - you can just build near your base - see White-Ra. Even against Zerg he doesn't high-ground wall-off - you can hold 6/7/8 pool without a highground wall. if you hatch first they pylon block your ramp or cannon rush you and collect there free win if they dont do that then there dumb Pylon block... wow, you not that that has been solved like a year ago!? cannon rush works brilliant as long as Zerg doesn't expect it.... honestly you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, go play bronce and tell high master/gm players that you can send 9 and 12 scout with no problem against 4Gate pylon block was solved by putting a neutral depot by the ramp, no neutral depot in ladder maps... yeah also you can make all of your drones attack the pylon at the same time -.- you realise im talking about WALLLING in the ramp with pylons? cant get suround when your drones cant get past the ramp
Check the link and shut up.
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On August 20 2012 08:59 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:58 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:57 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 08:56 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:56 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 08:54 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:52 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:I feel that of all races, toss is the most affected by playing against random, as the creator of the post said, it is fine if the opponent is Terran or Protoss, but zerg is the problem, not being able to ffe.
For terran and zerg, they are not really that affected by random players (or so it seems, i'm not sure) for zerg, they can just 15 hatch vs all 3 races and be OK, (for the most part) and terran can just 1 tax fe. hatch first VS protoss is as much an insta lose as no FFE VS Zerg (possiby more so) plus as toss or terran playing a random you have to wall in at the high ground which can be exploited by your opponent What level are you? I hate bringing out this argument, but hatch first is NOT insta-loss vs FFE. I hatch-first a LOT at high masters. Also - you do NOT have to wall in at high ground... Terrans typically wall in at high ground against all races so it's fine. Protoss - you can just build near your base - see White-Ra. Even against Zerg he doesn't high-ground wall-off - you can hold 6/7/8 pool without a highground wall. if you hatch first they pylon block your ramp or cannon rush you and collect there free win if they dont do that then there dumb Pylon block... wow, you not that that has been solved like a year ago!? cannon rush works brilliant as long as Zerg doesn't expect it.... honestly you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, go play bronce and tell high master/gm players that you can send 9 and 12 scout with no problem against 4Gate pylon block was solved by putting a neutral depot by the ramp, no neutral depot in ladder maps... yeah also you can make all of your drones attack the pylon at the same time -.- you realise im talking about WALLLING in the ramp with pylons? cant get suround when your drones cant get past the ramp Check the link and shut up.
drone drill shouldnt really be considered and effective method of breaking that since you lose so much mining time that the Protoss proably still comes out of it way ahead
plus drone drill isnt that easy to do and its nowhere close to being common knowledge
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Generally if people ask what race I play and/or are nice in beginning conversation, I tell them what race I'm playing as
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On August 20 2012 09:01 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:59 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 08:58 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:57 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 08:56 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:56 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 08:54 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:52 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:I feel that of all races, toss is the most affected by playing against random, as the creator of the post said, it is fine if the opponent is Terran or Protoss, but zerg is the problem, not being able to ffe.
For terran and zerg, they are not really that affected by random players (or so it seems, i'm not sure) for zerg, they can just 15 hatch vs all 3 races and be OK, (for the most part) and terran can just 1 tax fe. hatch first VS protoss is as much an insta lose as no FFE VS Zerg (possiby more so) plus as toss or terran playing a random you have to wall in at the high ground which can be exploited by your opponent What level are you? I hate bringing out this argument, but hatch first is NOT insta-loss vs FFE. I hatch-first a LOT at high masters. Also - you do NOT have to wall in at high ground... Terrans typically wall in at high ground against all races so it's fine. Protoss - you can just build near your base - see White-Ra. Even against Zerg he doesn't high-ground wall-off - you can hold 6/7/8 pool without a highground wall. if you hatch first they pylon block your ramp or cannon rush you and collect there free win if they dont do that then there dumb Pylon block... wow, you not that that has been solved like a year ago!? cannon rush works brilliant as long as Zerg doesn't expect it.... honestly you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, go play bronce and tell high master/gm players that you can send 9 and 12 scout with no problem against 4Gate pylon block was solved by putting a neutral depot by the ramp, no neutral depot in ladder maps... yeah also you can make all of your drones attack the pylon at the same time -.- you realise im talking about WALLLING in the ramp with pylons? cant get suround when your drones cant get past the ramp Check the link and shut up. drone drill shouldnt really be considered and effective method of breaking that since you lose so much mining time that the Protoss proably still comes out of it way ahead plus drone drill isnt that easy to do and its nowhere close to being common knowledge
You do know that Protoss spend AT LEAST 450 minerals on 3 Pylons + Cannon VERY early on, meaning he had to cut a lot of Probes. If Protoss does that you got a freewin. (Again showing 0 knowledge)
And If you lose to it and don't bother spending 5 seconds on google to find out how to deal with it don't bother talking about to the grown-ups pls.
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I switched from random to alternating races every time I queue because people cheesed/did all-ins against me way too much. I don't see the problem with it existing, but it's useless if you want to play regular games. I've certainly enjoyed less cheesing and not having to type my race every game now that I stopped queuing as random, but if I am just playing weird/stupid builds I like the option.
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On August 20 2012 09:03 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 09:01 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:59 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 08:58 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:57 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 08:56 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:56 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 08:54 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:52 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:
[quote]
hatch first VS protoss is as much an insta lose as no FFE VS Zerg (possiby more so)
plus as toss or terran playing a random you have to wall in at the high ground which can be exploited by your opponent What level are you? I hate bringing out this argument, but hatch first is NOT insta-loss vs FFE. I hatch-first a LOT at high masters. Also - you do NOT have to wall in at high ground... Terrans typically wall in at high ground against all races so it's fine. Protoss - you can just build near your base - see White-Ra. Even against Zerg he doesn't high-ground wall-off - you can hold 6/7/8 pool without a highground wall. if you hatch first they pylon block your ramp or cannon rush you and collect there free win if they dont do that then there dumb Pylon block... wow, you not that that has been solved like a year ago!? cannon rush works brilliant as long as Zerg doesn't expect it.... honestly you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, go play bronce and tell high master/gm players that you can send 9 and 12 scout with no problem against 4Gate pylon block was solved by putting a neutral depot by the ramp, no neutral depot in ladder maps... yeah also you can make all of your drones attack the pylon at the same time -.- you realise im talking about WALLLING in the ramp with pylons? cant get suround when your drones cant get past the ramp Check the link and shut up. drone drill shouldnt really be considered and effective method of breaking that since you lose so much mining time that the Protoss proably still comes out of it way ahead plus drone drill isnt that easy to do and its nowhere close to being common knowledge You do know that Protoss spend AT LEAST 450 minerals on 3 Pylons + Cannon VERY early on, meaning he had to cut a lot of Probes. If Protoss does that you got a freewin. (Again showing 0 knowledge) And If you lose to it and don't bother spending 5 seconds on google to find out how to deal with it don't bother talking about to the grown-ups pls.
You are incredibly rude and ignorant.
Drone drill doesn't work 90% of the time and is a joke, try actually using the strategy next time instead of preaching it when it's so painfully clear you have 0 real experience trying it.
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On August 20 2012 07:03 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 06:52 mostevil wrote:On August 20 2012 05:56 Avicularia wrote:
It's also often really easy to cheese random, just 'cos most of them don't scout. Dunno about that, I get 6 pooled and 4 gated a daft proportion of the time. Free wins for me though . And I always announce my race. However I don't think less of randoms who don't announce and I don't care if the game puts it on the front screen. There's only an argument for it in PvZ and even then its a weak argument from those who only want to play current meta (or this weird TL thing of having one build per matchup - even with 9 matchups to go at that sounds fecking boring). There are pleanty of safe ways to open gateway vs z, especially on the bigger modern maps where fast pools struggle to arrive unscouted. I've had a few guys claim other randoms have lied about thier race but I've never known it. I think the issue is there are two kinds of randoms, those who play to the best of their ability to get more from the game. And those who play random to blow off steam and cheese everyone. It's all valid anyway, if your morally superior macro build dies to cheese it's a crappy build (or a dice roll you should be happy with to make) Ok, tell me the Protoss Build that is safe against EVERY SINGLE CHEESE of every race and can keep up with the macro builds.
Stop with the caps, you'll come off a bit simple.
If you want a build to 100 food thats safe against everything, damn I hope there isn't one... this would be a terrible terrible game. You're supposed to scout and adjust as part of your build in order to make it safe..
Do you really want to play by following a build order flowchart? But OK I'll humour you, lets start you off, try: a pylon->probe scout, a gate, gas, core (a zealot unless scouting's shown you don't need him)-> after that respond to what you've seen/not seen and cook it up with a bit of what you feel like. Pressure build if they've been over greedy, all in if super greedy, expo if it's safe, you can even come out of gas to speed it up. If a builds so macro you can't keep up because you made a gateway you can almost always kill him with a 4 gate... Hell 3 should do it...
You dont even really need your gate and core up at the ramp, sim it up by your nexus and you're better off vs P or T. You can put 2 more gates at the ramp if needed and if early zerglings you can be safe with a bit of fun micro. You'll probably be in better shape than if a 6-7pool denied your FFE.
Damn I love this game. This stuffs the best part of it, and the best part is you get more of it when vs unannounced randoms‼
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pylon->probe scout, a gate, gas, core
and then the Zerg outmacros you and win
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On August 20 2012 09:22 Forikorder wrote:and then the Zerg outmacros you and win
yep, quite easily. 1gate expo not bad but if you're taking gas and core before your nexus it's set you back decently unless you also risk more money into a stalker or something and can manage to make your enemy stop droning enough.
When you get up to higher leagues it's aaallll about cutting as many corners as possible and utilizing every little advantage you can get, no info at the start of the game is really hard to play from.
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On August 20 2012 08:47 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:45 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:44 BeeNu wrote:On August 20 2012 08:43 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:18 Forikorder wrote:On August 19 2012 22:06 forsooth wrote:
Random players are supposed to have the advantage of being able to throw you off your game. It's how they compensate for lacking the more refined play that comes from focused practice with a single race.
So yeah, it's going to affect you and you're going to have to deal with it. why should they get compensation though? it was there choice, they chose to play all races knowing that it would slightly inconvenience them they can choose one or two races and play with no handicap but they dont i think it should show the race they got in the loading screen as a zerg its annoying not knowing what build to use if i 14pool 15 hatch then im safe if its Toss but if its Zerg or Terran im behind if i blind 15 hatch then if its toss he wins right there The discussion in this thread has become incredibly cyclical. People who hate random players will not listen to even the most reasonable and rational arguments. They want the game to tailored only to themselves and their own enjoyment and success. No amount of dialogue on this will change their minds. I think this thread has run its course. wouldnt it be the other way around? all we want is a fair playing ground FOR EVERYONE while randoms want the free advantage by hiding there race unless your in GM playing random isnt a handicap jsut learn one strat for each match up and your golden, it doesnt matter if you dont know it perfectly because 90% of the time you start with a big lead since they had to use a bad BO to counter all 3 races at the same time What? Just 9 scout, now you're behind by about 50 - 75 minerals, but you see their race AND what they're doing earlier. And against Terran you would probably 12scout anyway (and I 12scout vs Protoss now), so it's just 25 - 30 minerals or something like that. At your level it's not a big lead. If you really think it's such a big advantage why don't you play random? I have played random, it's a HUGE advantage. I played random until masters then switched to Zerg (which is WAY easier to get higher ranked on ladder, or any race for that matter, cause you only practice one) when I hit a ceiling at Random. Again - if you think it is such a big advantage just play random. I bet your ladder ranking will drop. The only reason it's an "advantage" is because of the mental games - when I random I play standard 99% of the time - either my opponent plays ridiculously super defensive expecting cheese, or just opens with a cheese build that I can easily stop. Well that's exactly the point. Your opponent almost *has* to play that way against random, it sets you off ahead of them 99% of the time, the other 1% they just got lucky. And obviously if you go to playing all 3 races over 1 your ranking will probably drop but that means NOTHING to your opponent since you are still equally matched in MMR.There is no intelligent way to play against random, whether your opening works against them or not is purely luck.
Likewise, the random advantage means nothing as the random who wins by abusing this advantage has MMR that matches his opponent.
I'm a random that announces my race at the start. It's up to my opponent to choose whether to believe me. They'll usually early scout and be surprised when I'm actually the race that I announced. So I guess even with race announcing, I still gain a random advantage
I don't really care how random is handled on the ladder. I'm OK with it being hidden. It takes more work to get to a certain level as random than it does with a single race, but for me personally, I'd like it more if my race was revealed during the loading screen. It saves me a few key strokes and it removes any advantage that I don't want. I'd also like the reveal to be during the load screen instead of after the game starts because some people might need a few seconds to mentally prepare for a certain mu on a certain map
Maybe it would be OK if there was a checkbox that reveals my race when I choose random. It wouldn't make anyone any more happy vs randoms who don't announce, but it would make me happy and my happiness is obviously worth more
+ Show Spoiler +
As for why I random:
1) The line in the ke$ha spoof that goes "I roll with random every game cuz that's the only way to play"
2) Achievements. That's right. Achievements
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On August 20 2012 08:56 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:56 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 08:54 Forikorder wrote:On August 20 2012 08:52 FairForever wrote:On August 20 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:I feel that of all races, toss is the most affected by playing against random, as the creator of the post said, it is fine if the opponent is Terran or Protoss, but zerg is the problem, not being able to ffe.
For terran and zerg, they are not really that affected by random players (or so it seems, i'm not sure) for zerg, they can just 15 hatch vs all 3 races and be OK, (for the most part) and terran can just 1 tax fe. hatch first VS protoss is as much an insta lose as no FFE VS Zerg (possiby more so) plus as toss or terran playing a random you have to wall in at the high ground which can be exploited by your opponent What level are you? I hate bringing out this argument, but hatch first is NOT insta-loss vs FFE. I hatch-first a LOT at high masters. Also - you do NOT have to wall in at high ground... Terrans typically wall in at high ground against all races so it's fine. Protoss - you can just build near your base - see White-Ra. Even against Zerg he doesn't high-ground wall-off - you can hold 6/7/8 pool without a highground wall. if you hatch first they pylon block your ramp or cannon rush you and collect there free win if they dont do that then there dumb Pylon block... wow, you not that that has been solved like a year ago!? cannon rush works brilliant as long as Zerg doesn't expect it.... honestly you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, go play bronce and tell high master/gm players that you can send 9 and 12 scout with no problem against 4Gate pylon block was solved by putting a neutral depot by the ramp, no neutral depot in ladder maps...
Or by putting an overlord in position to see incoming probes and stopping the pylon block with drones. Or by doing the worker stack linked above.
And it's bullshit that you come out way behind. Protoss has to spend a lot of money to do that kind of stuff.
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On August 20 2012 09:22 Forikorder wrote:and then the Zerg outmacros you and win
You paint quite the picture.
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EPT
