EPT[D] The raven buff does not address TvZ issues - Page 12
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If this thread can't remain civil then we'll have to close it. Thread will be moderated harshly from pg.3 onwards. | ||
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-JoKeR-
Canada387 Posts
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Tritanis
Poland344 Posts
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gh0un
601 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 19 2012 17:46 Tritanis wrote: Make fungals unstackable. So if infestors hit aready fungaled units with the spell again, it does absolutely nothing, not even refresh the spell duration. This, in my opinion, would make fungal require a little more skill/timing to use, as opposed to how easy is to cast right now (with its instant cast time and refreshable duration it takes little skill to perform chain fungals from safe range). Along with this nerf, a little duration buff could be implemented: from 4 to 5 or 6 seconds. problem with this is blink | ||
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Chr15t
Denmark1103 Posts
On August 19 2012 17:45 -JoKeR- wrote: Zerg is usually behind in upgrades against P and against T, adding another upgrade they have to get on the evo chamber will just put them even further back. How about the Spawning pool then? - The point either way should be the following; Since Zergs in ZvZ are really happy with the queen buff, it should be easily accesable, all zergs get gas reasonable early so an upgrades for range on the pool would be possible, In ZvP the queen range has had little effect, the upgrade argument is good tho, which is why it could be placed on the pool instead of tying up time on the evo. In ZvT it would force zergs to get gas in the early game, which would reduce the econ powering potential. So make the upgrade 50mins/50gas and it should prevent the very very delayed gas, as a result u reduce the drone "explosion" | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
That is why the slowing fungal would be a better option in my opinion. | ||
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ETisME
12476 Posts
On August 19 2012 16:56 BanditX wrote: Two fungals killing 30 marines isn't right. For 150/150 (infestor) plus its full energy bar, it gets to kill 750 minerals worth of units? Sure High Templar can do it, but you can at least dodge storm. you can also dodge fungal if you scan ahead and split Or adding some mauarders to the mix like the korean terran does | ||
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Vindicate
United States169 Posts
On August 19 2012 16:18 Darkthorn wrote: While terran might need to split/kite during fight...or how you put it micro more, although not 100% true...the other races already got other things...you can just let your energy go to max and then throw 4 mules...everything will be fine...well zerg can't inject on full energy and everything be fine...the same goes for chronoboost(although to a lesser extent), zerg also has to creep spread and during fight even if you consider it A move for zerg they do have to keep their infestors alive cast fungal and surround your units as much as possible...while the protosses have to forcefield, keep their colosi back from vikings, blink the stalkers...make sure their zealots aren't stuck in the back....while as terran you just stim/siege and split...I do think that all of them take equal fight micro while the other races even take more than terran for macro...just my 2 cents. I bolded that part in the last paragraph because I think it is important. I'm only diamond, but I don't want to diminish the value of knowing when to siege, or when, how and how fast to split. I play primarily zerg but playing terran is extremely difficult when it comes to splitting marines and microing against heavy splash units like banelings. I'm not saying one is harder than the other, but "just stim and split" I think under-emphasizes how hard that action is. The problem is that we're trying to balance a race that is inherently more abusive than others. At the highest levels Terran is more prone to abuse and certain strategies that make them seem overpowered, like bunkers shielding marines until completion or shoot-n-scoot. The problem i that nerfing those strategies penalizes the less skilled players who can't do that. When the infestor buffed happened I barely lost a game in almost two months.. but it was just "ctrl-group all infestors in one group, fungal the hell out of things and win game". Except for avoiding templar and emps, microing infestors has been 12387102938x as easy as microing a general terran army. I'm no genius and I don't know how to balance this game, but I think moving the races towards a less abusive composition might be helpful. | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
On August 19 2012 17:46 Tritanis wrote: Make fungals unstackable. So if infestors hit aready fungaled units with the spell again, it does absolutely nothing, not even refresh the spell duration. This, in my opinion, would make fungal require a little more skill/timing to use, as opposed to how easy is to cast right now (with its instant cast time and refreshable duration it takes little skill to perform chain fungals from safe range). That sounds incredibly stupid because it would make fungal the only spell with that function (not refreshing the spell when stacked) and make it incredibly punishing to Zerg. That's not even a nerf or a balance fix, it's literally just to fuck over ONLY Zerg players. | ||
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Tritanis
Poland344 Posts
Still, I think current fungal is a bigger problem. | ||
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courtpanda
866 Posts
by the way, does anyone know which units it was slower than before but faster than now? | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
If other masters/gm/pro Terrans can leave their input in this thread, that would surely be appreciated by the entire community. I hope I at least put out some food for thought and that this will lead to discussion. Why do you only want input from other terrans and not from the other side of the matchup by the zergs? Sounds to me like all you want is for people to agree with you. | ||
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Tritanis
Poland344 Posts
On August 19 2012 17:56 Shebuha wrote: That sounds incredibly stupid because it would make fungal the only spell with that function (not refreshing the spell when stacked) and make it incredibly punishing to Zerg. That's not even a nerf or a balance fix, it's literally just to fuck over ONLY Zerg players. Let's see. There are a whole two(2) abilities in the game that do damage in an area over time (fungal and storm). And storm already doesn't stack (yes, it is 'refreshed' but you deserve to take the damage if you stay in one place for more than 4 seconds and ignore the shiny lightning storm). So, I disagree. Changing one of the two similar spells to balance the game is not "fucking the zerg over". | ||
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
I am regularly seeing 10+ packs of these things running around and not seeing Terrans even attempt to EMP them Without the Infestor the Zerg army including Broodlords is garbage. Muta play is completely negated these days by Terrans who have worked out how to shut it down. Its almost a guaranteed loss to go Muta \ Baneling so that leaves Zerg going for their own Deathball just like Protoss (which imho is in an even worse state than TvZ) I would personally still like to see Ghost snipe buffed up to +35 and Queen range reduced to 4 and see how that pans out. HOTS is soon here so all of this is moot anyways | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On August 19 2012 17:56 Shebuha wrote: That sounds incredibly stupid because it would make fungal the only spell with that function (not refreshing the spell when stacked) and make it incredibly punishing to Zerg. That's not even a nerf or a balance fix, it's literally just to fuck over ONLY Zerg players. What? Of course a single nerf is going to hurt only one race. | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
On August 19 2012 18:03 Tritanis wrote: Let's see. There are a whole two(2) abilities in the game that do damage in an area over time (fungal and storm). And storm already doesn't stack (yes, it is 'refreshed' but you deserve to take the damage if you stay in one place for more than 4 seconds and ignore the shiny lightning storm). So, I disagree. Yeah, and I think you "deserve" to take the damage on more units and should be kept in place so they will actually die if you are incapable of splitting/positioning/sieging your units. The other problem with your idea is that it would mess with ZvP a bitsy... Blink would be pretty retarded strong. It's hard enough to defend immortal/sentry and big blink allins, but you mess up a fungal by .1 of a second and it's wasted whilst you only have 5-6 infestors with energy? If you don't fungal in time he blinks away and you have stalkers that lost ~1/2 of their shields? Honestly, the guy who said fungal shouldn't snare and should instead slow by ~80% has a much better idea. | ||
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wangstra
922 Posts
On August 19 2012 15:53 Incomplet wrote: IEM in the past few days. MVP vs Nestea - HSM into Nesteas Corrupter Broodlords. Nestea GG's MVP vs Slivko - HSM into Slivko's infestors. Slivko GG's How did he do it to avoid fungals on his ravens? He scanned in advance to see his exact opponents composition and location, spread out his ravens and approached in small groups from multiple angles. This is all without the speed increase, let alone when the patch comes through. Yes it did take him ages to build up his group of ravens and then the energy. But he turtled hard and continuesly multi prong dropped to buy heaps of time. I agree, he did buy time with his harass but context wise, your point is irrelevant. You are referring to a game that was over 20 min long and a terran who was able to amass an army based off 6 bases. Good luck trying amassing ravens on a map like Antigua. MVP spread out his units - that's good tactical thinking. The other two zergs didn't, imagine if they did. Finally people keep saying the speed buff will help but never address how? How will it help? Will it increase chances that fungals miss because they are so agile now? Will it make escaping easier? Will it make getting up close easier? What actually happens right now, is that terrans tend to group their raven with the rest of the army and unlike zerg where you have melee zerglings and bigger roaches blocking the way of infestors, when a terran moves his army, what usually happens? The ranged units all attack from afar and then a few seconds later the raven flies overhead and right into the line of fire. A zerg sloppy with the way he controls his infestors doesn't suffer as much because the infestors being on the ground usually have to path around roaches, and zerglings first. When do you often see infestors dying? After the ground army has been moped up. Ravens in typical usage? Usually in the first few seconds of skirmishes. | ||
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zuperketla
Norway212 Posts
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
On August 19 2012 18:06 ZAiNs wrote: What? Of course a single nerf is going to hurt only one race. Yeah, I know, I was just meaning to say that it's beyond changing something a bit, or fixing it for other races, it's just completely boning fungal (and most Zergs) in an unfair way. I also added the "ONLY" because the mechanic wouldn't affect storm. | ||
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ScienceNotBusiness
United States91 Posts
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