On August 19 2012 00:00 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Which one? Cloak, Preordain, or Entomb?
Which one? Cloak, Preordain, or Entomb?
you really don't need turrets for the oracle, it's way too fast to kill in the time it takes to cast entomb and run away.
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On August 19 2012 00:00 SarcasmMonster wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2012 23:55 Aquila- wrote: On August 18 2012 23:43 Qikz wrote: I don't think the mine should latch on to air units, we've got the turret to deny the oracle IMO. No because the Oracle has also an ability that can shut down turrets. Which one? Cloak, Preordain, or Entomb? you really don't need turrets for the oracle, it's way too fast to kill in the time it takes to cast entomb and run away. | ||
Thenerf
United States258 Posts
Think about how carefully banelings were balanced, how many weaknesses they have. When you understand that then you will understand what they will do to mines. Personally I like the idea of Friendly Fire damage so you can't just put 5 marines and a couple of mines to make an area immune to attack. And regain the splash so they can't hover units over freaking MINES. And make the ability to attack air a researchable upgrade. | ||
Zurichan
36 Posts
On August 18 2012 08:22 FromShouri wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2012 08:12 blinkingangels wrote: On August 18 2012 08:10 FromShouri wrote: On August 18 2012 08:08 SnipedSoul wrote: I much prefer the widow mine being a spider mine. The 10 second timer was kind of dumb. then don't let it affect air units. I really like that it can latch to air units. It's a good way to deny oracle harass (which is insanely strong for how little effort it requires). I also see it as being a decent solution to lategame zerg where they switch back and forth between ultras and broods. It's also the only interesting unit being given to Terran. so its okay that terrans get a unit that can literally kill a unit by itself+deal a decent amount of splash damage, be spammable, detect units, no friendly fire, explode instantly, and attack land and ground units.That is what is call that balanced? Because right now it does all that except explode instantly. so its okay that zergs get a unit that can literally kill a unit by itself+deal a decent amount of splash damage, be spammable, no friendly fire, explode instantly, and attack ground units.That is what is call that balanced? Because right now it does all that except explode instantly. see what i did there? | ||
Jebusrocks
Canada62 Posts
On August 19 2012 04:13 Zurichan wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2012 08:22 FromShouri wrote: On August 18 2012 08:12 blinkingangels wrote: On August 18 2012 08:10 FromShouri wrote: On August 18 2012 08:08 SnipedSoul wrote: I much prefer the widow mine being a spider mine. The 10 second timer was kind of dumb. then don't let it affect air units. I really like that it can latch to air units. It's a good way to deny oracle harass (which is insanely strong for how little effort it requires). I also see it as being a decent solution to lategame zerg where they switch back and forth between ultras and broods. It's also the only interesting unit being given to Terran. so its okay that terrans get a unit that can literally kill a unit by itself+deal a decent amount of splash damage, be spammable, detect units, no friendly fire, explode instantly, and attack land and ground units.That is what is call that balanced? Because right now it does all that except explode instantly. so its okay that zergs get a unit that can literally kill a unit by itself+deal a decent amount of splash damage, be spammable, no friendly fire, explode instantly, and attack ground units.That is what is call that balanced? Because right now it does all that except explode instantly. see what i did there? well doesnt this cost like 100 gas? I actually think the current widow mine is useless tvz. It takes up supply,and explodes on first contact. In general, the only thing the widow mine ill ever attach itself too are lings, not a very cost-effective way to kill lings if u ask me. | ||
Darkcaster
United Kingdom11 Posts
On August 19 2012 03:21 RedMosquito wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 01:20 Darkcaster wrote: On August 19 2012 00:56 RedMosquito wrote: On August 18 2012 23:55 Aquila- wrote: On August 18 2012 23:43 Qikz wrote: I don't think the mine should latch on to air units, we've got the turret to deny the oracle IMO. No because the Oracle has also an ability that can shut down turrets. I think the widow mine's real purpose is to help against roach drops in tvz. Thors dont kill overlords fast enough and either do turrets. Im pretty sure the widowmine will kill an overlord in one shot and help against roach doom drops. I think the widow mine is a perfect idea for a different kind of aa for mech play. I really like it and hope it works out. Roach drops in tvz? How many times has a zerg won from roach drops in tvz? OT does the mine still have any aoe damge? Becuse if it instantly deals damage then it will be annoying for zerg low health troops such as lings and hydras. The main thing is that it is such an effective scout of counterattack paths. If you put 1 on each attack path then you will know if any attack is coming and can slow it doen as the enemy will ahve to clear the mine before advancing You must not watch much gsl. Roach drops with overlords have been a giant nuisance for meching terrans. Zergs like Symbol and Curious in particular do it quite a lot. Ive even seen so many terrans lose their entire mech army to a giant roach drop. Not sure how you stop that without marines or a rediculous amount of vikings which wouldn't be out by that time. Turrets dont do much to deter it either. Widow mine would help especially if there is splash (not sure if that is still around). I apologise i havent seen it used but i can imagine against meching terran atm it is powerful. However, with the warhound (which ahs a good amount of single target dps even if its not mechancal) i can see roaches not being too useful against mech. I cna see hydra drops being used instead but then if the battle hellion is in the ball they will just fry aswell. | ||
oZe
Sweden492 Posts
On August 18 2012 08:53 eviltomahawk wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2012 08:31 iky43210 wrote: why HOTS still don't have a spectate mode, this is getting ridiculous I reckon that it's pretty hard to program unless the game was built from the ground-up with it in mind, like DotA 2. Not really, you can watch replays right? The only thing that could be an issue is observer lag or mass observers. However it's easily fixable by just not caring what happens to a lagging observer. Maybe putting an obscap so one server in the farm don't get overloaded. Not really sure how the 2nd hand servers from Nigeria are configured. Could be one 8088 pc or 4 spectrum 48k ;-) Shouldn't put anymore load on the server than the obsguy playing a game of his own though. 1. someone wants 2 obs 2. download replay from server while streaming new actions (checked some of my replays the biggest was 250k which most people can download in one second or less) 3. catchup (you can watch replays x8 so if you catch on late could be a few minutes b4 you're on point, but could probably catchup alot faster if graphics & sounds are not rendered until you catchup) 4. Observe like if you were in the lobby when game started Is very little work for a good coder who knows the source. All the functionality is already there. Maybe replays are never saved on the server?!? Which could be a small issue, since you don't want to have a player upload to the observers. Someone just needs to tie it together. | ||
ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
On August 19 2012 03:55 Roe wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 00:00 SarcasmMonster wrote: On August 18 2012 23:55 Aquila- wrote: On August 18 2012 23:43 Qikz wrote: I don't think the mine should latch on to air units, we've got the turret to deny the oracle IMO. No because the Oracle has also an ability that can shut down turrets. Which one? Cloak, Preordain, or Entomb? you really don't need turrets for the oracle, it's way too fast to kill in the time it takes to cast entomb and run away. LOL, in the current build a turret kills an oracle in 4 shots. Place 2 turrets at the edge of your mineral line and the Oracle will only be able to disrupt 2 times IF the Protoss is a fucking boss and can get to your entire line within a half second at maximum range. 20 shield and 60 hp... 2 vikings BAM no oracle harass. 2 well placed turrets and 90% of PROS will lose their oracle because it's so fragile. 3 Shots from a mother fucking Thor will kill it. 4 Shots from a Thor if the oracle waits to heal its shields to MAX before minshielding each time. Stop whining about the harass capability of a unit that has less life than the beta Warp Prism. | ||
ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
On August 19 2012 04:18 Jebusrocks wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 04:13 Zurichan wrote: On August 18 2012 08:22 FromShouri wrote: On August 18 2012 08:12 blinkingangels wrote: On August 18 2012 08:10 FromShouri wrote: On August 18 2012 08:08 SnipedSoul wrote: I much prefer the widow mine being a spider mine. The 10 second timer was kind of dumb. then don't let it affect air units. I really like that it can latch to air units. It's a good way to deny oracle harass (which is insanely strong for how little effort it requires). I also see it as being a decent solution to lategame zerg where they switch back and forth between ultras and broods. It's also the only interesting unit being given to Terran. so its okay that terrans get a unit that can literally kill a unit by itself+deal a decent amount of splash damage, be spammable, detect units, no friendly fire, explode instantly, and attack land and ground units.That is what is call that balanced? Because right now it does all that except explode instantly. so its okay that zergs get a unit that can literally kill a unit by itself+deal a decent amount of splash damage, be spammable, no friendly fire, explode instantly, and attack ground units.That is what is call that balanced? Because right now it does all that except explode instantly. see what i did there? well doesnt this cost like 100 gas? I actually think the current widow mine is useless tvz. It takes up supply,and explodes on first contact. In general, the only thing the widow mine ill ever attach itself too are lings, not a very cost-effective way to kill lings if u ask me. It currently costs 25 gas at 0 supply. It's not effective against lings in the old build, now a pack of lings instadies with no chance when they reach a widow mine... I remember in BW where gosu's could KILL spider mines with cracklings... | ||
RoboBob
United States798 Posts
On August 19 2012 01:20 Darkcaster wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 00:56 RedMosquito wrote: On August 18 2012 23:55 Aquila- wrote: On August 18 2012 23:43 Qikz wrote: I don't think the mine should latch on to air units, we've got the turret to deny the oracle IMO. No because the Oracle has also an ability that can shut down turrets. I think the widow mine's real purpose is to help against roach drops in tvz. Thors dont kill overlords fast enough and either do turrets. Im pretty sure the widowmine will kill an overlord in one shot and help against roach doom drops. I think the widow mine is a perfect idea for a different kind of aa for mech play. I really like it and hope it works out. Roach drops in tvz? How many times has a zerg won from roach drops in tvz? OT does the mine still have any aoe damge? Becuse if it instantly deals damage then it will be annoying for zerg low health troops such as lings and hydras. The main thing is that it is such an effective scout of counterattack paths. If you put 1 on each attack path then you will know if any attack is coming and can slow it doen as the enemy will ahve to clear the mine before advancing Roach drops happen all the time in high level TvZ. They are a big part of the reason why mech isn't standard in TvZ. | ||
Cloak
United States816 Posts
On August 19 2012 04:31 ShatterZer0 wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 04:18 Jebusrocks wrote: On August 19 2012 04:13 Zurichan wrote: On August 18 2012 08:22 FromShouri wrote: On August 18 2012 08:12 blinkingangels wrote: On August 18 2012 08:10 FromShouri wrote: On August 18 2012 08:08 SnipedSoul wrote: I much prefer the widow mine being a spider mine. The 10 second timer was kind of dumb. then don't let it affect air units. I really like that it can latch to air units. It's a good way to deny oracle harass (which is insanely strong for how little effort it requires). I also see it as being a decent solution to lategame zerg where they switch back and forth between ultras and broods. It's also the only interesting unit being given to Terran. so its okay that terrans get a unit that can literally kill a unit by itself+deal a decent amount of splash damage, be spammable, detect units, no friendly fire, explode instantly, and attack land and ground units.That is what is call that balanced? Because right now it does all that except explode instantly. so its okay that zergs get a unit that can literally kill a unit by itself+deal a decent amount of splash damage, be spammable, no friendly fire, explode instantly, and attack ground units.That is what is call that balanced? Because right now it does all that except explode instantly. see what i did there? well doesnt this cost like 100 gas? I actually think the current widow mine is useless tvz. It takes up supply,and explodes on first contact. In general, the only thing the widow mine ill ever attach itself too are lings, not a very cost-effective way to kill lings if u ask me. It currently costs 25 gas at 0 supply. It's not effective against lings in the old build, now a pack of lings instadies with no chance when they reach a widow mine... I remember in BW where gosu's could KILL spider mines with cracklings... If it really costs 0 supply, that completely runs counter to their anti-deathball sentiment. Now you can have a full sized deathball, and can sprinkle in additional aoe damage even when maxed. | ||
Qikz
United Kingdom12012 Posts
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Empirimancer
Canada1024 Posts
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On August 19 2012 04:28 ShatterZer0 wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 03:55 Roe wrote: On August 19 2012 00:00 SarcasmMonster wrote: On August 18 2012 23:55 Aquila- wrote: On August 18 2012 23:43 Qikz wrote: I don't think the mine should latch on to air units, we've got the turret to deny the oracle IMO. No because the Oracle has also an ability that can shut down turrets. Which one? Cloak, Preordain, or Entomb? you really don't need turrets for the oracle, it's way too fast to kill in the time it takes to cast entomb and run away. LOL, in the current build a turret kills an oracle in 4 shots. Place 2 turrets at the edge of your mineral line and the Oracle will only be able to disrupt 2 times IF the Protoss is a fucking boss and can get to your entire line within a half second at maximum range. 20 shield and 60 hp... 2 vikings BAM no oracle harass. 2 well placed turrets and 90% of PROS will lose their oracle because it's so fragile. 3 Shots from a mother fucking Thor will kill it. 4 Shots from a Thor if the oracle waits to heal its shields to MAX before minshielding each time. Stop whining about the harass capability of a unit that has less life than the beta Warp Prism. I guess. But you're going to have to have maybe 3-4 turrets surrounding your mineral line to cover all angles from which he can entomb. | ||
blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 19 2012 04:55 Empirimancer wrote: It blows my mind that Zerg players are worried about Widow Mines. Zergs gets so much new stuff that seems designed to fight Terrans: Blinding Cloud against bio, Abduct against Thors and Tanks, the Swarm Host against Terran turtling, charging Ultralisks that nullify kiting and tank range... and to counter this Terrans have... battlehellions and widow mines. That's it. Widow Mines will have to be really, really freaking powerful if Terrans are to have any chance past the early game phase. It blows my mind how you think terran won't have a chance vs zerg in hots after early game if they don't use widow mines LOL. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7676 Posts
On August 19 2012 04:26 oZe wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2012 08:53 eviltomahawk wrote: On August 18 2012 08:31 iky43210 wrote: why HOTS still don't have a spectate mode, this is getting ridiculous I reckon that it's pretty hard to program unless the game was built from the ground-up with it in mind, like DotA 2. Not really, you can watch replays right? The only thing that could be an issue is observer lag or mass observers. However it's easily fixable by just not caring what happens to a lagging observer. Maybe putting an obscap so one server in the farm don't get overloaded. Not really sure how the 2nd hand servers from Nigeria are configured. Could be one 8088 pc or 4 spectrum 48k ;-) Shouldn't put anymore load on the server than the obsguy playing a game of his own though. 1. someone wants 2 obs 2. download replay from server while streaming new actions (checked some of my replays the biggest was 250k which most people can download in one second or less) 3. catchup (you can watch replays x8 so if you catch on late could be a few minutes b4 you're on point, but could probably catchup alot faster if graphics & sounds are not rendered until you catchup) 4. Observe like if you were in the lobby when game started Is very little work for a good coder who knows the source. All the functionality is already there. Maybe replays are never saved on the server?!? Which could be a small issue, since you don't want to have a player upload to the observers. Someone just needs to tie it together. Do you mean no "watch replay with friends"? Because that is totally different from Observer Mode. They said it was on the list. | ||
ThatGuy89
United Kingdom1968 Posts
i saw the battle reports where it was 75 minerals 1 supply 10 secound count down with splash damage how much has it changed? also, do you just burrow the mine, and it blows up on anything that comes in range, or do you have to manually click stuff? also, that oracle ability that gives you vision on an opponent building. So you go into a Z base, throw it on a hatch and get out, and for 2 mins you can see the area around his base? | ||
Jerubaal
United States7676 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On August 19 2012 04:31 ShatterZer0 wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 04:18 Jebusrocks wrote: On August 19 2012 04:13 Zurichan wrote: On August 18 2012 08:22 FromShouri wrote: On August 18 2012 08:12 blinkingangels wrote: On August 18 2012 08:10 FromShouri wrote: On August 18 2012 08:08 SnipedSoul wrote: I much prefer the widow mine being a spider mine. The 10 second timer was kind of dumb. then don't let it affect air units. I really like that it can latch to air units. It's a good way to deny oracle harass (which is insanely strong for how little effort it requires). I also see it as being a decent solution to lategame zerg where they switch back and forth between ultras and broods. It's also the only interesting unit being given to Terran. so its okay that terrans get a unit that can literally kill a unit by itself+deal a decent amount of splash damage, be spammable, detect units, no friendly fire, explode instantly, and attack land and ground units.That is what is call that balanced? Because right now it does all that except explode instantly. so its okay that zergs get a unit that can literally kill a unit by itself+deal a decent amount of splash damage, be spammable, no friendly fire, explode instantly, and attack ground units.That is what is call that balanced? Because right now it does all that except explode instantly. see what i did there? well doesnt this cost like 100 gas? I actually think the current widow mine is useless tvz. It takes up supply,and explodes on first contact. In general, the only thing the widow mine ill ever attach itself too are lings, not a very cost-effective way to kill lings if u ask me. It currently costs 25 gas at 0 supply. It's not effective against lings in the old build, now a pack of lings instadies with no chance when they reach a widow mine... I remember in BW where gosu's could KILL spider mines with cracklings... Ouch, so it's a no no for mech...? | ||
Geos13
437 Posts
On August 19 2012 05:07 Roe wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 04:28 ShatterZer0 wrote: On August 19 2012 03:55 Roe wrote: On August 19 2012 00:00 SarcasmMonster wrote: On August 18 2012 23:55 Aquila- wrote: On August 18 2012 23:43 Qikz wrote: I don't think the mine should latch on to air units, we've got the turret to deny the oracle IMO. No because the Oracle has also an ability that can shut down turrets. Which one? Cloak, Preordain, or Entomb? you really don't need turrets for the oracle, it's way too fast to kill in the time it takes to cast entomb and run away. LOL, in the current build a turret kills an oracle in 4 shots. Place 2 turrets at the edge of your mineral line and the Oracle will only be able to disrupt 2 times IF the Protoss is a fucking boss and can get to your entire line within a half second at maximum range. 20 shield and 60 hp... 2 vikings BAM no oracle harass. 2 well placed turrets and 90% of PROS will lose their oracle because it's so fragile. 3 Shots from a mother fucking Thor will kill it. 4 Shots from a Thor if the oracle waits to heal its shields to MAX before minshielding each time. Stop whining about the harass capability of a unit that has less life than the beta Warp Prism. I guess. But you're going to have to have maybe 3-4 turrets surrounding your mineral line to cover all angles from which he can entomb. You just need two turrets on either side of the minerals and one mine. The mine one shot kills oracles which cost way more. Obs won't be able to determine the location of the mine and so harass over. You need one mine just in case they think you are faking and try to call your bluff. | ||
Qikz
United Kingdom12012 Posts
On August 19 2012 05:38 JustPassingBy wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2012 04:31 ShatterZer0 wrote: On August 19 2012 04:18 Jebusrocks wrote: On August 19 2012 04:13 Zurichan wrote: On August 18 2012 08:22 FromShouri wrote: On August 18 2012 08:12 blinkingangels wrote: On August 18 2012 08:10 FromShouri wrote: On August 18 2012 08:08 SnipedSoul wrote: I much prefer the widow mine being a spider mine. The 10 second timer was kind of dumb. then don't let it affect air units. I really like that it can latch to air units. It's a good way to deny oracle harass (which is insanely strong for how little effort it requires). I also see it as being a decent solution to lategame zerg where they switch back and forth between ultras and broods. It's also the only interesting unit being given to Terran. so its okay that terrans get a unit that can literally kill a unit by itself+deal a decent amount of splash damage, be spammable, detect units, no friendly fire, explode instantly, and attack land and ground units.That is what is call that balanced? Because right now it does all that except explode instantly. so its okay that zergs get a unit that can literally kill a unit by itself+deal a decent amount of splash damage, be spammable, no friendly fire, explode instantly, and attack ground units.That is what is call that balanced? Because right now it does all that except explode instantly. see what i did there? well doesnt this cost like 100 gas? I actually think the current widow mine is useless tvz. It takes up supply,and explodes on first contact. In general, the only thing the widow mine ill ever attach itself too are lings, not a very cost-effective way to kill lings if u ask me. It currently costs 25 gas at 0 supply. It's not effective against lings in the old build, now a pack of lings instadies with no chance when they reach a widow mine... I remember in BW where gosu's could KILL spider mines with cracklings... Ouch, so it's a no no for mech...? Uhhh? Why would that be? o_O | ||
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