If you aren't watching IPL: San Francisco Face Off, it has been announced today that two GSL events will be hosted at the IPL5 event projected to be in October/November.
GSL World Championship: A 5v5 show match between five of the best foreigners and five of the best Koreans.
GSL 2012 Code S Season 4: The Ro8 through the grand finals will be played in Las Vegas at IPL5.
More details about IPL5 will be announced on August 13th.
Sounds fun! GOM events overseas are always interesting.
E: Man, I really don't think the format will be fitting. As others have pointed out, playing several rounds of GSL in one weekend is... well, it's not GSL-like at all. I take it back, I take it all back.
I whole-heartedly disagree with this. It might have been a scheduling necessity due to the WCS Korea taking up this entire month for GSL, but it really pulls the rug out from under GSL players who rely on week-to-week preparation like Mvp and Nestea, and favors streaky players like MarineKing.
On August 12 2012 09:02 ShiroKaisen wrote: I whole-heartedly disagree with this. It might have been a scheduling necessity due to the WCS Korea taking up this entire month for GSL, but it really pulls the rug out from under GSL players who rely on week-to-week preparation like Mvp and Nestea, and favors streaky players like MarineKing.
...wait, this means MKP could win a GSL.
I'm suddenly torn.
If MKP makes the Ro8, he is also in IPL5. Meaning he'll be doing double duty.
Same with players like Polt, Alive, Taeja, Hero, etc.
There's a huge difference in just credibility between GSL and any foreigner tournament, and I think so much of that is the preparation aspect. Why can't it just be the finals?
I don't like this for the same reason as other people. It's a sudden, unnecessary change of format. The GSL just IS about the element of preparation and precision. This ruins that.
On August 12 2012 09:00 BathTubNZ wrote: So two weeks of GSL in 1 weekend? Doesn't that negate the whole 'planning for your opponent' aspect of GSL?
Nothing wrong with having some variety to the format. And it's not like GOM hasn't tinkered with their tournaments in the past, World Championship, Super Tournament, Blizzard cup etc. At least it's more likely to have a finals that isn't terribly one-sided due to one player coming up with well-prepared strats.
It's three weeks of GSL. Ro8 takes two days and then a week break for semifinals. Then the semifinals occur and the finalists get a week and a half to practice for the final.
It makes sense when you realize we only have four months left in the year and GOM still needs to do GSL4/5 an Blizzard Cup.
IPL, why won't you learn your lesson. One tournament at a time. This is gonna be a mess of overlapping tournaments and matches, not broadcasting important matches due to time constraints and a complete lack of focus. LESS IS MORE!
I feel like this is IPL arms-racing MLG, since Raleigh is going to have WCS North America and probably KeSPA players in pools (since there's still unannounced 'TBA Players'). They wanna do something to put themselves back over the top and so they're doing IPL5, GSL WC, and GSL Ro8-Finals. It's just too much, and it's GOING to backfire.
Wasn't the change of format to a longer season to make each championship more meaningfull? This ruins the prestige of GSL by making it closer to every other tournament that is hosted over the course of a single weekend. I don't want a GSL decided by who is able to function the best playing with jetlag and IPL5.
Worst idea ever; I don't mind if it's just the finals, but GSL MUST let their players prepare days ahead for games, that's the whole selling point of their tournament. If we wanted another weekend figure-things-out-on-the-spot type tournament, we would of just watched MLG/HSC etc.
So whoever wins this gsl final is going to be the least significant winner ever? Wow i love staying up one night ever season to catch the finals live- this is a huge disappointment.
hey hey wait. MLG already showed how disastrous it is to host two tournaments on the same weekend. We have no details yet on IPL 5, and this leads me to believe that they're NOT going to do it over only one week-end. I think the people at IPL are smarter than repeating the obvious error their ompetitor has been blamed so much for.
On August 12 2012 09:02 ShiroKaisen wrote: I whole-heartedly disagree with this. It might have been a scheduling necessity due to the WCS Korea taking up this entire month for GSL, but it really pulls the rug out from under GSL players who rely on week-to-week preparation like Mvp and Nestea, and favors streaky players like MarineKing.
...wait, this means MKP could win a GSL.
I'm suddenly torn.
Nestea and MVP will be fine
Naniwa on the other hand would crash and burn in such circumstances
On August 12 2012 09:08 Fionn wrote: It's three weeks of GSL. Ro8 takes two days and then a week break for semifinals. Then the semifinals occur and the finalists get a week and a half to practice for the final.
It makes sense when you realize we only have four months left in the year and GOM still needs to do GSL4/5 an Blizzard Cup.
If they want to shorten their time, they can simply do double days where they cast 4 groups of Ro32/Ro16 in one day, play all their Ro8 in one day, etc, just like what they do to Code A; butchering the whole prestige format of your league is definitely not the best way to go about it
I for one have gotten past my initial hesitation and am thrilled for all these awesome tournaments at once, the amount of epicness produced during the time period will be magnificient. I imagine it will be a week or two long process so.
On August 12 2012 09:16 Fubi wrote: Worst idea ever; I don't mind if it's just the finals, but GSL MUST let their players prepare days ahead for games, that's the whole selling point of their tournament. If we wanted another weekend figure-things-out-on-the-spot type tournament, we would of just watched MLG/HSC etc.
On August 12 2012 09:17 Waxangel wrote: joke tournament -_-!
On August 12 2012 09:22 Waxangel wrote: this just in: GomTV surrenders to OGN
Really not happy with this decision, GSL stands out for me because they give players the time to play the best they possibly can against their opponents. IPL/MLG etc have their own ideals, and I like those too - but it's not for the GSL imo
There's no way to salvage this idea given the community response, unless they do a tournament Top 8 of Rankings in 2012 or something along those lines.
Love the return of the World Championship (albeit limited down to 5 a side like a football match between mates), just wondering what the selection method would be :O
On August 12 2012 09:00 BathTubNZ wrote: So two weeks of GSL in 1 weekend? Doesn't that negate the whole 'planning for your opponent' aspect of GSL?
Oh man you're right! It's all in one weekend. What... what a tragedy. GSL's whole thing is about planning and like, long series play and strategy. That's how they get the highest level play. I didn't even think of this. I take it back, I don't like this at all now ._.
cmon WHyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy the special feeling of GSL finals will disappear Please hope the event will be 2 weeks long? impossible so the WC will rule and gsl finals suck
I get putting the finals in the foreign scene because it worked well in October but the RO8 and RO4? That comes across as poor planning that GOM realised that they can't actually fit everything into a year.
People seem to forget GSL is only spread out in time to maximise revenue for GOM. The opportunity to study and prepare for opponents in GSL is only a by-product of this, but is not the reason for the scheduling. GOM needs to spread out GSL in order to give themselves content to broadcast. GOM is facing increased competition within Korea from KESPA tournaments and so it needs to take the opportunities to maximise revenues. These two announcements are merely a consequence of GOM being a business.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
Ummm, no. Scarlett DEFINITELY doesn't belong. Sase, KAS, Beastyqt, (whitera?),Major, Vortix, Sheth, Ret, TitaN, Mana, Lucifron, and so many others are better.
Love the world championship idea. The Ro8-Final though seems a bit more out of place and character. Just isn't the GSL, having to play Ro8-Final in a weekend.
On August 12 2012 08:58 Fionn wrote: If you aren't watching IPL: San Francisco Face Off, it has been announced today that two GSL events will be hosted at the IPL5 event projected to be in October/November.
GSL World Championship: A 5v5 show match between five of the best foreigners and five of the best Koreans.
GSL 2012 Code S Season 4: The Ro8 through the grand finals will be played in Las Vegas at IPL5.
More details about IPL5 will be announced on August 13th.
So the Ro8 to the Finals becomes somewhat of a gauntlet? That's changing the complexion and practice time quite a bit, but meh considering how many one-sided affairs we get. Good on IGN getting full value with their deal with GOM. Considering our scene shows the love I don't see why not.
I'm worried that the cramped nature of having three events in one weekend might be a bit too much, but as long as GSL manages everything, I think things will go alright. Nice to see this IPL/GSL partnership evolving this way.
My main worry with the GSL side is how much it changes the format of GSL, and makes it more of a weekend, ladder tournament. GSL is known for being the 2-3 month, methodical and preparing tournament, while crunching it into three days completely flips it around.
Hmm, stinks they have to squish it in all like that - but I guess its a good excuse for GOM to squish it in like this than any other way. Hopefully we still some quality games and a fair champion!
Man, I really don't think the format will be fitting. As others have pointed out, playing several rounds of GSL in one weekend is... well, it's not GSL-like at all.
This is one of the worst decisions that have been made for the rise of Starcraft 2. Having the round of 8 of GSL to the finals plus the IPL5 tournament plus this World Championship event. There is going to be no preparation and the GSL is not going to be worth any more than other international tournaments.
I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and see how it plays out. Who knows? We might actually get an epic GSL finals instead of a 1-sided finals. I think a lot of the one sided finals events are just because one player is so much better at preparing than the other.
Terrible idea. So much less time for players to prepare for their matches and now GSL finals won't have that special feeling. I don't like this at all.
in all honesty, i don't think it matter because no one can stop taeja these days, and for the foreinger team , Naniwa, stephano, nerchio, thorzain and maybe huk, but hes been performing horribly so the 5th player is up to really anyone
Oh god no... After I pay to have a laggy and broken sound stream I am sure as hell am not going to support this. If they managed to fuck up just two teams playing then good luck with actually trying to get these games done within 3 weeks.
WTF, this is awesome. Any GSL being played on the foreign scene is awesome. People are complaining about the lack of preparation time, yet MLGs are always huge events that everyone loves?
On August 12 2012 09:41 SidewinderSC2 wrote: WTF, this is awesome. Any GSL being played on the foreign scene is awesome. People are complaining about the lack of preparation time, yet MLGs are always huge events that everyone loves?
theres a reason why GSL is the hardest tournament, and it has to do with the preparation
On August 12 2012 09:41 SidewinderSC2 wrote: WTF, this is awesome. Any GSL being played on the foreign scene is awesome. People are complaining about the lack of preparation time, yet MLGs are always huge events that everyone loves?
Preparation time is the thing that elevates the GSL above a one weekend LAN. Take it away and its just another cup.
On August 12 2012 09:41 SidewinderSC2 wrote: WTF, this is awesome. Any GSL being played on the foreign scene is awesome. People are complaining about the lack of preparation time, yet MLGs are always huge events that everyone loves?
The problem isn't with MLG-style tournaments, it's because having a GSL at IPL5 goes against the whole format of GSL, which is supposed to be the preparation tournaments.
I agree with a lot of the comments here; taking away the chance each player has to prepare for their next opponent will cause the tournament to favor players that usually aren't thought could win a gsl. It could also mean as a result, lower quality of skill performed in the games. I'd much prefer if it was only the GSL finals, rather than the entire Ro8 onwards. Or, at the very least, Ro4 onwards, if thats not possible.
On August 12 2012 09:03 Rosettastoned wrote: I am not a fan of this.... You're going to sacrifice the entire entegrety of the GSL championship to host it here.... -.-
I think Ro8 to the finals is too much. I could see inviting the Ro8 Players out as seeded players into the Tourney and playing the GSL R8 on Friday as an intro to IPL5. Playing half the season in three days to to much. At most Ro4 would work for that.
My biggest concern about this awful idea is not the preperation time, but that players might have to play 2 tournaments, currently the people who this could be a problem for are -
All of these players are either currently in Code S or has the chance to get into Code S via the Up N' Down matches, this is 10 players, and I would say there is a very high chance that atleast 3-4 of them will make it to the Ro8, now this would for those players to either play in two tournaments or cancel one.
Honestly I'm extremely disappointed by how this was organized, did no one at GomTV check their player list?
I have no problem if the GSL finals was held at the IPL, but the whole Ro8 and on is just ridiculous and incredibly unnecessary. There's a reason why the GSL is held the way it is and that it results in high level gameplay almost all the time. Take it away and you have yourself just another tournament with a lot of prize money. Not to mention the fact that it's going to be a competition on which tournament gets more attention. Absolutely terrible.
nth-ing that this is a pretty bad decision for GOM and GSL. The GSL is one-of-a-kind and I hope it doesn't become a weekend event. Having the tension and excitement build up over a week, as well as player preparation, is quintessential to what the GSL means to me.
On August 12 2012 09:57 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote: I have no problem if the GSL finals was held at the IPL, but the whole Ro8 and on is just ridiculous and incredibly unnecessary. There's a reason why the GSL is held the way it is and that it results in high level gameplay almost all the time. Take it away and you have yourself just another tournament with a lot of prize money. Not to mention the fact that it's going to be a competition on which tournament gets more attention. Absolutely terrible.
This means that MVP wont win =( whos idea was to bring the Ro8? the most they will get is a day's time to prepare thats not enough.... Thats the whole point of the GSL the strategies that players come up with to play against one person, not hey lets just put this all into one weekend.
On August 12 2012 09:57 Gorlin wrote: I reaaaally don't like that they're condensing the GSL like that. It's like it's not even GSL any more.
People should stop thinking only about that, and thing more about the bigger issue here that there is 10 players right now who is either in Code S or can get in Code S that are also qualified for IPL 5, forcing them to drop a tournament or play in both.
On August 12 2012 09:41 SidewinderSC2 wrote: WTF, this is awesome. Any GSL being played on the foreign scene is awesome. People are complaining about the lack of preparation time, yet MLGs are always huge events that everyone loves?
The thing is, we love both, because they are different kind of tournament; we're complaining because GSL is taking away that difference that made them unique.
There are people that love watching UFC and WWE, because they different kind of entertainment; and this is like UFC switching to the drama-centric story driven fighting, it's stupid.
On August 12 2012 09:41 SidewinderSC2 wrote: WTF, this is awesome. Any GSL being played on the foreign scene is awesome. People are complaining about the lack of preparation time, yet MLGs are always huge events that everyone loves?
The thing is, we love both, because they are different kind of tournament; we're complaining because GSL is taking away that difference that made them unique.
There are people that love watching UFC and WWE, because they different kind of entertainment; and this is like UFC switching to the drama-centric story driven fighting, it's stupid.
I don't care as much about that, more the fact that this potentially forces 8 out of 10 out of 32 players to play 2 tournaments.
On August 12 2012 09:02 ShiroKaisen wrote: I whole-heartedly disagree with this. It might have been a scheduling necessity due to the WCS Korea taking up this entire month for GSL, but it really pulls the rug out from under GSL players who rely on week-to-week preparation like Mvp and Nestea, and favors streaky players like MarineKing.
...wait, this means MKP could win a GSL.
I'm suddenly torn.
Nestea and MVP will be fine
Naniwa on the other hand would crash and burn in such circumstances
naniwa actually has sum of the sickest winstreaks at all kinds of tournaments vs koreans
On August 12 2012 09:57 Gorlin wrote: I reaaaally don't like that they're condensing the GSL like that. It's like it's not even GSL any more.
People should stop thinking only about that, and thing more about the bigger issue here that there is 10 players right now who is either in Code S or can get in Code S that are also qualified for IPL 5, forcing them to drop a tournament or play in both.
Either they wont play IPL5 or they will just play both. Honestly playing the GSL games wont be time consuming at all.
I'm not sure why everyone's overreacting like this. These are pros, they're adaptable, it's not like they're gonna fall apart just cause they have to play matches closer than usual, they'll be fine.
Yeah they'll have less preparation time but I don't think it's such a big deal, they will "prepare to having less preparation"
On August 12 2012 09:41 SidewinderSC2 wrote: WTF, this is awesome. Any GSL being played on the foreign scene is awesome. People are complaining about the lack of preparation time, yet MLGs are always huge events that everyone loves?
The thing is, we love both, because they are different kind of tournament; we're complaining because GSL is taking away that difference that made them unique.
There are people that love watching UFC and WWE, because they different kind of entertainment; and this is like UFC switching to the drama-centric story driven fighting, it's stupid.
I don't care as much about that, more the fact that this potentially forces 8 out of 10 out of 32 players to play 2 tournaments.
I care about the single hardest, most prestigious tournament of SC2 losing its prestige due to some business decision and yet another 3-day weekend tourney
On August 12 2012 10:06 Demorase wrote: I'm not sure why everyone's overreacting like this. These are pros, they're adaptable, it's not like they're gonna fall apart just cause they have to play matches closer than usual, they'll be fine.
Yeah they'll have less preparation time but I don't think it's such a big deal, they will "prepare to having less preparation"
They will play worse matches. How can that ever be a good idea? :s
On August 12 2012 10:06 Demorase wrote: I'm not sure why everyone's overreacting like this. These are pros, they're adaptable, it's not like they're gonna fall apart just cause they have to play matches closer than usual, they'll be fine.
Yeah they'll have less preparation time but I don't think it's such a big deal, they will "prepare to having less preparation"
They will play worse matches. How can that ever be a good idea? :s
This. Who knows how much time they simply spend watching the VODs of their opponents. Really, I can't imagine the games being as great as the last couple seasons.
On August 12 2012 09:41 SidewinderSC2 wrote: WTF, this is awesome. Any GSL being played on the foreign scene is awesome. People are complaining about the lack of preparation time, yet MLGs are always huge events that everyone loves?
The thing is, we love both, because they are different kind of tournament; we're complaining because GSL is taking away that difference that made them unique.
There are people that love watching UFC and WWE, because they different kind of entertainment; and this is like UFC switching to the drama-centric story driven fighting, it's stupid.
I don't care as much about that, more the fact that this potentially forces 8 out of 10 out of 32 players to play 2 tournaments.
I care about the single hardest, most prestigious tournament of SC2 losing its prestige due to some business decision and yet another 3-day weekend tourney
It's not gonna lose its prestige because a single season is played in a different format. I agree that it's odd and it may affect the quality of the games, but it's done, and whatever, hope for the best. Most likely next season is gonna be normal.
This sounds incredibly stupid. Please let someone in charge realize how bad of an idea this is and change it. This is not how GSL is meant to be played.
BTW anyone who doesn't realize how silly this is really does not understand anything about leagues like GSL and how they are meant to be played.
On August 12 2012 10:06 Demorase wrote: I'm not sure why everyone's overreacting like this. These are pros, they're adaptable, it's not like they're gonna fall apart just cause they have to play matches closer than usual, they'll be fine.
Yeah they'll have less preparation time but I don't think it's such a big deal, they will "prepare to having less preparation"
I don't care if they can handle the pressure or not - the decision to do this is still bullshit.
There is a reason why GSL is pretty much the only tournament I follow really close and this completely takes away everything I love about it.
On August 12 2012 10:06 Demorase wrote: I'm not sure why everyone's overreacting like this. These are pros, they're adaptable, it's not like they're gonna fall apart just cause they have to play matches closer than usual, they'll be fine.
Yeah they'll have less preparation time but I don't think it's such a big deal, they will "prepare to having less preparation"
They will play worse matches. How can that ever be a good idea? :s
Depends, they could end up playing better with all the adrenaline flowing. Plus they don't play that much to begin with, it's like two bo3s and one bo7 at most for the two finalists, like I said they'll be just fine.
My foreign 5: Stephano, Naniwa, Mana, Nerchio, and Demuslim(dont think hes top 5 but there needs to be a terran and he seems to be the best foreign terran atm)
On August 12 2012 10:06 Demorase wrote: I'm not sure why everyone's overreacting like this. These are pros, they're adaptable, it's not like they're gonna fall apart just cause they have to play matches closer than usual, they'll be fine.
Yeah they'll have less preparation time but I don't think it's such a big deal, they will "prepare to having less preparation"
I don't care if they can handle the pressure or not - the decision to do this is still bullshit.
There is a reason why GSL is pretty much the only tournament I follow really close and this completely takes away everything I love about it.
Nah, you like the GSL because they have the best players and Tastosis, has nothing to do with the format. They'll have all that, just more exciting but shorter.
On August 12 2012 09:41 SidewinderSC2 wrote: WTF, this is awesome. Any GSL being played on the foreign scene is awesome. People are complaining about the lack of preparation time, yet MLGs are always huge events that everyone loves?
The thing is, we love both, because they are different kind of tournament; we're complaining because GSL is taking away that difference that made them unique.
There are people that love watching UFC and WWE, because they different kind of entertainment; and this is like UFC switching to the drama-centric story driven fighting, it's stupid.
It's not that bad. A better analogy would be Wimbledon switching from grass to clay.
Guys it does mean that the planning for the matches wont be nearly as prevalent but its only for one season and its just cuz of wcs so its a nice change of pace and i cant wait
I am 100% against this - the match preparation is one of the things that seperates the GSL tournament from others. It also presents two issues, one mostly affecting Koreans and Australians, the other affecting the players:
#1) The time of the event will make it difficult for Australians and Koreans to watch, most likely. One of the reasons GSL is my favourite tournament (aside from having the best players and games), is that it's on at a time suitable for barcrafts or parties at my place.
#2) Ro8 players are not usually the top 8 o the tournaments, it's possible to just prepare better and get that far, but have pretty average standard play. To get further than that you need to be a bona-fide starcraft master, except in this tournament. You could prepare good builds then run up against somebody good enough to beat you in normal GSL anyway, because they can prepare for your cheese. Except instead of getting eliminated by a better opponent, the cheese is totally unexpected and we get a worse player through to Ro4 who will most likely play bad games AGAIN.
All that said, I'll still watch and the crowd will probably be sick as hell.
On August 12 2012 10:06 Demorase wrote: I'm not sure why everyone's overreacting like this. These are pros, they're adaptable, it's not like they're gonna fall apart just cause they have to play matches closer than usual, they'll be fine.
Yeah they'll have less preparation time but I don't think it's such a big deal, they will "prepare to having less preparation"
I don't care if they can handle the pressure or not - the decision to do this is still bullshit.
There is a reason why GSL is pretty much the only tournament I follow really close and this completely takes away everything I love about it.
Nah, you like the GSL because they have the best players and Tastosis, has nothing to do with the format. They'll have all that, just more exciting but shorter.
So...are you seriously trying to tell me why I like the GSL? oO
EDIT: Actually by making it shorter they take away most of the exitement. I don't care about weekend tournaments. They are boring and no one remembers them after a couple of weeks. That's not GSL.
On August 12 2012 10:06 Demorase wrote: I'm not sure why everyone's overreacting like this. These are pros, they're adaptable, it's not like they're gonna fall apart just cause they have to play matches closer than usual, they'll be fine.
Yeah they'll have less preparation time but I don't think it's such a big deal, they will "prepare to having less preparation"
I don't care if they can handle the pressure or not - the decision to do this is still bullshit.
There is a reason why GSL is pretty much the only tournament I follow really close and this completely takes away everything I love about it.
Nah, you like the GSL because they have the best players and Tastosis, has nothing to do with the format. They'll have all that, just more exciting but shorter.
I'm glad you know what everyone likes and can tell them.
Manuel Schenkhuizen @followgrubby Super exciting you'll have #GSL Ro8-Finals at IPL 5, this means finals will probably not be a 4-0 cuz no special preps. #GOOD @IGNProLeague
On August 12 2012 10:15 soulist wrote: My foreign 5: Stephano, Naniwa, Mana, Nerchio, and Demuslim(dont think hes top 5 but there needs to be a terran and he seems to be the best foreign terran atm)
Foreign terrans ? What's that ?
Also all you people need to calm down. Do we know it will be played over a weekend ? We don't. Wait for mor info before bashing please.
On August 12 2012 10:06 Demorase wrote: I'm not sure why everyone's overreacting like this. These are pros, they're adaptable, it's not like they're gonna fall apart just cause they have to play matches closer than usual, they'll be fine.
Yeah they'll have less preparation time but I don't think it's such a big deal, they will "prepare to having less preparation"
I don't care if they can handle the pressure or not - the decision to do this is still bullshit.
There is a reason why GSL is pretty much the only tournament I follow really close and this completely takes away everything I love about it.
Nah, you like the GSL because they have the best players and Tastosis, has nothing to do with the format. They'll have all that, just more exciting but shorter.
It's not that at all. The GSL has the best players *at playing preparation style tournaments*. They're the players who know how to spend a weeks time preparing for a single opponent. Seeing the GSL R8 players compete in a weekend tournament isn't that meaningful.
Hey guys i have an amazing idea? Why dont we take the best part of GSL and make it IPL5.2 im sure if we take everything what GSL stands for and throw it away we will make lots of money.
On August 12 2012 10:18 althaz wrote: #2) Ro8 players are not usually the top 8 o the tournaments, it's possible to just prepare better and get that far, but have pretty average standard play. To get further than that you need to be a bona-fide starcraft master, except in this tournament. You could prepare good builds then run up against somebody good enough to beat you in normal GSL anyway, because they can prepare for your cheese. Except instead of getting eliminated by a better opponent, the cheese is totally unexpected and we get a worse player through to Ro4 who will most likely play bad games AGAIN.
All that said, I'll still watch and the crowd will probably be sick as hell.
All that means is that your Ro8 foe failed to prepare adequately for his one and only known opponent, so he deserved to lose anyway. A much better argument is that the eventual finalists wouldn't have much/any time to prepare for each other.
Edit: Alternatively, the Ro8 quality could be affected by jet lag and/or players trying to do double duty, but both of these are somewhat schedule-dependent.
Yeah, I get why you're all so annoyed. Having all those games over one weekend is going to ruin the normally prestigious and spectacular GSL Code S finals...
Seriously though, the GSL has a history of having boring and one sided finals. Maybe without all the preparation time for the players to engineer specific builds that just 4-0 hard counter their opponent's playstyle, the finals will be a lot better. I think this is just going to make an awesome weekend of games. I'd even dare to say that, if this works out, it could be the most exciting final yet.
On August 12 2012 10:19 Proseat wrote: November will be too late for the fifth GSL season and Blizzard Cup. I think IPL5 will be in September.
No it wont be. We still have season 4 coming up and then Season 5 at IPL5 and then Blizzard Cup is what im guessing.
Who says GSL season 5 will be played at IPL5? I am assuming it's season 4, which only starts at the end of the month because of WCS Korea being broadcast by GOM currently. And that then lines up nicely with the end of September (maybe early October) for Ro8.
On August 12 2012 10:32 Grimbob wrote: Seriously though, the GSL has a history of having boring and one sided finals. Maybe without all the preparation time for the players to engineer specific builds that just 4-0 hard counter their opponent's playstyle, the finals will be a lot better. I think this is just going to make an awesome weekend of games. I'd even dare to say that, if this works out, it could be the most exciting final yet.
After last finals they really need something special like this to make up for it.
On August 12 2012 10:32 Grimbob wrote: Yeah, I get why you're all so annoyed. Having all those games over one weekend is going to ruin the normally prestigious and spectacular GSL Code S finals...
Seriously though, the GSL has a history of having boring and one sided finals. Maybe without all the preparation time for the players to engineer specific builds that just 4-0 hard counter their opponent's playstyle, the finals will be a lot better. I think this is just going to make an awesome weekend of games. I'd even dare to say that, if this works out, it could be the most exciting final yet.
I think we can all agree that weekend tournaments lead to a lot of exciting and nailbiting finals. Great fun to watch. Preparation tournaments can be a little more boring. But we already have lots of weekend tournaments, we don't need GSL to fill that role. Whereas we don't have an excess of (live / on-site) preparation tournaments at the moment.
On August 12 2012 10:38 munchmunch wrote: I think we can all agree that weekend tournaments lead to a lot of exciting and nailbiting finals. Great fun to watch. Preparation tournaments can be a little more boring. But we already have lots of weekend tournaments, we don't need GSL to fill that role
I'll take a great exciting event and finals over a boring 4-0 finals with no tension any time. You're entitled to like the boring finals of course.
Team Liquid should send IPL a thanks card for this. Considering how Taeja seems to have flair for low-preparation games, having little to no preparation time for ro4 and the finals should be in his favour (assuming he makes it to ro8 again + wins ro8!).
Edit: Oh yeah let me suggest a foreigner team. Pick whoever wins WCS Europe, WCS NA, WCS SA, WCS Oceania, and WCS Asia (best non-korean). (assuming these events are held before IPL 5).
If I were to pick 5 players, I'd go with: Zerg: Stephano + Nerchio. Terran: Kas + Major. Protoss: Naniwa + Macsed.
On August 12 2012 10:32 Grimbob wrote: Yeah, I get why you're all so annoyed. Having all those games over one weekend is going to ruin the normally prestigious and spectacular GSL Code S finals...
Seriously though, the GSL has a history of having boring and one sided finals. Maybe without all the preparation time for the players to engineer specific builds that just 4-0 hard counter their opponent's playstyle, the finals will be a lot better. I think this is just going to make an awesome weekend of games. I'd even dare to say that, if this works out, it could be the most exciting final yet.
Did you miss Mvp vs Squirtle, MMA vs DRG, Leenock vs Jjakji?
I don't really like the idea of having concurrent tournaments overseas, because the players in the GSL are super fatigued and the quality of their games dips. Its one thing to have the finals, but to have the entire play-offs in Vegas is a bit much. I feel sorry for the players .. jetlag + 2 major tournaments.. thats gonna be insanity for anyone trying that
On August 12 2012 10:32 Grimbob wrote: Yeah, I get why you're all so annoyed. Having all those games over one weekend is going to ruin the normally prestigious and spectacular GSL Code S finals...
Seriously though, the GSL has a history of having boring and one sided finals. Maybe without all the preparation time for the players to engineer specific builds that just 4-0 hard counter their opponent's playstyle, the finals will be a lot better. I think this is just going to make an awesome weekend of games. I'd even dare to say that, if this works out, it could be the most exciting final yet.
As if there hasn't been terrible finals on weekend tournaments, recently NASL S3 being one of the worst I've ever seen.
On August 12 2012 10:32 Grimbob wrote: Yeah, I get why you're all so annoyed. Having all those games over one weekend is going to ruin the normally prestigious and spectacular GSL Code S finals...
Seriously though, the GSL has a history of having boring and one sided finals. Maybe without all the preparation time for the players to engineer specific builds that just 4-0 hard counter their opponent's playstyle, the finals will be a lot better. I think this is just going to make an awesome weekend of games. I'd even dare to say that, if this works out, it could be the most exciting final yet.
Did you miss Mvp vs Squirtle, MMA vs DRG, Leenock vs Jjakji?
Yeah Game 7 MMA v. DRG was probably the greatest ever game given the circumstances (and Artosis going crazy.) And MVP v. Squirtle and MMA v. DRG were just unbelievably incredible series. Leenock vs. Jjakji I wouldlnt put quite on the level of MVP/Squirtle and MMA/DRG but it was still a fantastic series as well.
they will have time to prepare for the ro8, the ro4 they will probably have at least several hours, and the final, they'll have a full day. that's far more prep time than most tournaments
I think hosting ro8 - finals takes away from the GSL notion of preparing for your opponents. I'm not really sure how it'll turn out but hopefully it turns out good.
No, no, no, no. GSL is awesome because of the fact that it's not just one-two days but spread out over a longer term meaning that players can prepare. Hosting the finals themselves is fine. Having 2 rounds + finals in 2-3 days is not fun.
not impressed. the amount of preparation will be way down which will probably result in worse games I love IPL but the production for IPL TAC finals was pretty bad so they are really going to need to step up their game there at least.
Yeah I'm actually less interested in this season of GSL.
Preparation games are what make GSL awesome. If I wanted a lot of games to happen quickly with no time to get hyped between games as a huge test of endurance I'd watch MLG or IPL or IEM or everyothertournamentthatdoesitlikethisalready.
World championship I'm ok with in this style since it's hard to organise people. GSL Ro8->Finals I'm not happy with. I don't know if I'm part of a vocal minority or there's a large contingent of people with the same outlook as me =/
Meh, turning the final matches of the GSL into a weekend tournament sounds like a terrible idea to me. Hopefully this has just been forced by the tight schedule (WCS + 2 GSL seasons remaining) rather than being a deliberate choice.
Everyone is getting their panties in a bunch, regardless of the preparation time that makes GSL unique. IPL 5 will still be a amazing event with having GSL finals there.
In my opinion with the community feedback I do hope they just make it the GSL finals solely along with the World Tournament.
On August 12 2012 11:28 Aegeis wrote: Everyone is getting their panties in a bunch, regardless of the preparation time that makes GSL unique. IPL 5 will still be a amazing event with having GSL finals there.
In my opinion with the community feedback I do hope they just make it the GSL finals solely along with the World Tournament.
Oh I agree. IPL5 will be an amazing event with having the GSL finals there.
Ro 8 and Ro 4 though =/ That's actually my concern.
I totally want to see the finals there though. GSL finals at Blizzcon had THE best crowd. Honestly bar none.
The more I think about it, I think the whole Korea vs World thing is great, but having the RO8 GSL happen at a weekend tournament is a horrible idea. I really hope that IPL changes it to RO4 to Finals, because that is more reasonable as a whole. It presents a huge problem to players at IPL5, the Korea vs World AND GSL (Potentially players like TaeJa, MKP, Polt, HerO, etc), who have to balance THREE events over a weekend. If it goes like this, it will be pure chaos and screw up those players horribly.
Finals would be awesome, but Ro8 and Ro4 and Finals in one weekend kinda removes the specialness of winning it, it'll just be a really fucking awesome LAN event, rather than a GSL. Plus don't let anyone from IPL touch the production, from what we've seen today at least they're not up to par.
I would love to see who win the test of endurance between GSL finest players. I just hope that the winner of this GSL won't be discredited for his win.
I don't like it. They fucked up the TAC Finals pretty badly, but that's not even the probleme: No preparation for guys who are used to preparation? Sounds odd, sorry
Not sure if I'm a fan of GSL Ro8 --> Grand Finals being condensed into a weekend. I like the fact that players in the GSL have preparation time between their matches. Should be more interesting once the Ro8 players are determined. Now to wait and see how this all pans out. :S
On August 12 2012 11:38 glzElectromaster wrote: I could stand Ro4 and the Finals. But Ro8 as well????? I hope IPL doesn't kill it like Prime vs Startale or the terrible production today...
This is strong dislike. GSL was different cause of the different format. If they're gonna do that, it shouldn't be a GSL Code S anything, just make it a separate tournament.
I think the GSL games are really going to suffer with this and it is not for the best interest for the players as they wont be able to have the same prep for an opponent. I love having GS/GSTL out of korea but this is really unfair for the players and kinda steals the magic of the GSL as both korean league pride themselves on having these great games as both players metagame each other and realease new strategies for an opponent they know they are faceing well in advance
Like someone else said, GOM's intention is probably to mess around with the format to see if less preparation can lead to better finals, especially after the last finals that left many disappointed.
MLG finals have historically been considerably better than GSL finals after all.
On August 12 2012 11:47 Demorase wrote: Like someone else said, GOM's intention is probably to mess around with the format to see if less preparation can lead to better finals, especially after the last finals that left many disappointed.
MLG finals have historically been considerably better than GSL finals after all.
The only good MLG finals I can think of are DRG vs Marineking and that's because of who they are and not the format.
Congratulations IPL... Your desperation, and GOM's apparently, has just made the RO8 onwards completely random. Perhaps Bitbybit can win code S this season...
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
Not scarlett. I'd say mana or maybe maybe major.
ROFL not scarlett?? Are you crazy? Scarlett is better than Nerchio, thorzain, MaNa, AND Major.... You clearly haven't watched her play very much... Also, you forgot about VortiX... Should be NaNi, Stephano, Scarlett, VortiX, and SaSe or ThorZaIN or Nerchio
On August 12 2012 11:54 FXOBoSs wrote: Congratulations IPL... Your desperation, and GOM's apparently, has just made the RO8 onwards completely random. Perhaps Bitbybit can win code S this season...
I would love if he came back and won Code S. No joke.
On August 12 2012 10:10 Bippzy wrote: Look, it will be epic, not as epic nor hyped as GSL normally is.
However, it will be epic. And all of you poopy pants can call it [b]The "Gauntlet" GSL". Itll have less prestige, but its neccesary with wcs
I would gladly accept a weekend tournament WCS so this wouldn't have to happen.
I think I would too. But, it appears to be too late for that.
If you think about it, Gom's perspective: -we fly our whole crew out to do a shit ton of games instead of a bo7. More utilitarian. -how do they get the 2012 schedule in order? This. - although many bitches and moans will be had, the crowd for foreigners vs koreans and GSL finals(semifinals and ro8 probably too, to a less extent) will be CRAZY and it will be epic just because of the quality of their players(I see it as a they have one nighht to prep for a match(the players will be having the time of their life and being really tired), and based off of the skill level of players at IPL tac on the spot, gsl players dont dissapoint.
Fan perspective: -championship worth something in between winning an arena of legends tournament and something like the world championship. Until someone gives a name for it, I'll think of it as the gauntlet gsl. -ridiculous starpower overwhelming everywhere onto everyone at ipl5. So many good players make soo many good games. -The games will still be good, not as good as prepared matches, but hype all over and live in somewhere not korea=all nerds change pants.
So although it ruins the prestige format of the GSL, the incredibly skilled and hype matches the fans get live, the working out of gom's schedule, and the fact that this isn't their new format, it's a one time thing will cause IPL5 hosting GSL to be a huge success.
P.S. Gom did give season ticket holders a discount for wcs, so the argument that fans didnt get what they paid for is kinda moot. This announcement caused waxangel to go on a posting rampage, it really is kinda funny. Obviously gom will be doing the production. Besides, IPL has pretty good production in my memory with the exception of the most recent event(read: lay off them a little, they won't do the next tournament worse)
Edit: P.S.S. Many of my trusted posters are actually massively against this. It's possible I'm just defending for the sake of defending, or that i can tolerate what appears to be a win-win situation with minor setbacks.
On August 12 2012 11:47 Demorase wrote: Like someone else said, GOM's intention is probably to mess around with the format to see if less preparation can lead to better finals, especially after the last finals that left many disappointed.
MLG finals have historically been considerably better than GSL finals after all.
The only good MLG finals I can think of are DRG vs Marineking and that's because of who they are and not the format.
And how many good GSL finals has there been, not that many either. From a business and publicity stand point, I guess GOM can't afford to have bad finals happen so often; when people take their time to come see the finals and it's over super quickly in a very one-sidded way, it's not good to promote the game.
On August 12 2012 11:08 markrevival wrote: they will have time to prepare for the ro8, the ro4 they will probably have at least several hours, and the final, they'll have a full day. that's far more prep time than most tournaments
That amount of time is nothing. From Ro8 on, I'm guessing most players spend days upon days watching VODs, creating builds, practicing the builds, refining the builds, preparing for builds that they think their opponent will use, etc.
People should consider the fact that not only will there be no time to prepare, but there will also be the additional stress of travel, eating, possibly jetlag, etc. It's an incredibly tough environment to have to play in, which greatly advantages particular players rather arbitrarily, rather than on their playing skill. I.e. This isn't just about the lack of prep time. there is a ton of other circumstances that will ultimately make it a battle of "who's luckiest to not get sick and get a good rest".
On August 12 2012 12:04 Headnoob wrote: Do not like the idea at all, especially when the GSL finals probably won't air at a great time to watch if it's being held in the US.
wait, so both the ro8 onward and a 5v5? how are they even going to pull this off while running IPL5? Are they thinking about how much time this is all going to take up? Don't they remember IPL4 running extremely late on Saturday with GSTL and on Sunday with the finals?
I'm sorry but this sounds like a terrible idea. Not only does it ruin the best thing about GSL, the preparation time for matches, but its going to ruin IPL 5 because there will be so little time. IPL and GOM really need to rethink this.
I hope GOM rethinks this after todays production, unless GOM uses their own production team I would not let my product be used by IPL. The awards ceremony was awkward and bland, no host, bad sound quality, stream crashes, computer crashes. Lucky the games (thanks to TeamLiquid's own God Terren) were amazing.
On August 12 2012 12:05 MCXD wrote: People should consider the fact that not only will there be no time to prepare, but there will also be the additional stress of travel, eating, possibly jetlag, etc. It's an incredibly tough environment to have to play in, which greatly advantages particular players rather arbitrarily, rather than on their playing skill. I.e. This isn't just about the lack of prep time. there is a ton of other circumstances that will ultimately make it a battle of "who's luckiest to not get sick and get a good rest".
Being the best at preparing specific builds (preparation) is arguably just as arbitrary as being the best at playing under stress on the fly (stamina and quick thinking).
On August 12 2012 12:11 eFonSG wrote: We've had this exact same shit before and it went well, why the sudden hate?
If you're referring to blizzcon, it was just the grand final. Here we're talking about ro4 and grand final being played with few preparation and a whole other event (IPL5) being played at the same time.
On August 12 2012 12:11 eFonSG wrote: We've had this exact same shit before and it went well, why the sudden hate?
It is not the exact same shit. If it is just the finals, then yes, it would just be like MVP vs MMA. But moving the entire Ro8 to a single weekend drastically changes the preparation format compare to normal GSL.
I think this means Taeja will win it all if he can make another bo8, which, I think is inevitable. Although in my opinion it hurts Naniwa's chances which kind of sucks. GL to Taeja I suppose!
On August 12 2012 12:04 Headnoob wrote: Do not like the idea at all, especially when the GSL finals probably won't air at a great time to watch if it's being held in the US.
pretty fuckn shit.
When everyone in NA has to watch the GSL at 5/6 AM... Yeah, one GSL won't hurt buddy.
On August 12 2012 09:01 Blazinghand wrote: Sounds fun! GOM events overseas are always interesting.
E: Man, I really don't think the format will be fitting. As others have pointed out, playing several rounds of GSL in one weekend is... well, it's not GSL-like at all. I take it back, I take it all back.
._. gom please save us
Ro8 isn't several rounds did you even do the math :l thats Ro8, Ro4, Championship :l sooooooooooooo yea no it's fine and you're freaking out about it for absolutely no reason.
On August 12 2012 12:04 Headnoob wrote: Do not like the idea at all, especially when the GSL finals probably won't air at a great time to watch if it's being held in the US.
pretty fuckn shit.
DUDE!! America has to watch GSL at bad times all the time. Its roughly 5am-8am for me and that is literally the worst possible time. We are forced to do it for every single match. doing it for one weekend will not hurt you. IM sorry i feel no sympathy for you.
On August 12 2012 12:14 zen22 wrote: god its just for 1 season of gsl you guys. just let them do there thing. Change isn't always bad.
Yes, it is for one season. But we already have a lot of weekend style offline events. Althought with WCG, OSL, and WCS() in Korea, we have more preparation events as well.
On August 12 2012 12:05 MCXD wrote: People should consider the fact that not only will there be no time to prepare, but there will also be the additional stress of travel, eating, possibly jetlag, etc. It's an incredibly tough environment to have to play in, which greatly advantages particular players rather arbitrarily, rather than on their playing skill. I.e. This isn't just about the lack of prep time. there is a ton of other circumstances that will ultimately make it a battle of "who's luckiest to not get sick and get a good rest".
If they are having the entire GSL single elimination phase of the tournament at IPL5 I would expect them to fly the players in a week early and get them adjusted to the time zone.
On August 12 2012 12:16 schmitty9800 wrote: If you think that Korean teams won't have their players well-prepared for their RO8 opponent and EVERYONE on the other side of the bracket, then lol.
On August 12 2012 12:16 schmitty9800 wrote: If you think that Korean teams won't have their players well-prepared for their RO8 opponent and EVERYONE on the other side of the bracket, then lol.
Lol, it is a lot easier to prepare for 1 opponent compare to 7...
On August 12 2012 12:11 eFonSG wrote: We've had this exact same shit before and it went well, why the sudden hate?
We had a GSL finals overseas, people have no problem with this. Having the entire ro8 ro4 and finals in one weekend overseas is what people are against.
On August 12 2012 11:17 JoeAWESOME wrote: Hopefully the foreigner will be: Stephano, Nerchio, Major, Naniwa and Thorzain!!
I think the Korean team will be Nestea, DongRaeGu, MC, MVP and Seed
If they are going off of achievements probably. If they are going off who gives them the best chance to win then TaeJa is on the team for sure.
I would think MVP, MC, NesTea, DRG, an either MKP or Squirtle all give better chances of winning and all have more achievements as well so Taeja would only make it on based on popular vote.
On August 12 2012 12:11 eFonSG wrote: We've had this exact same shit before and it went well, why the sudden hate?
We had a GSL finals overseas, people have no problem with this. Having the entire ro8 ro4 and finals in one weekend overseas is what people are against.
This precisely. Having that all put into one weekend....well it really kills the preparation and the hype. GSL/OSL/MSL etc always had those time periods for which players really could tailor specific builds on specific maps for specific players. Having to play all those games in that tiny period of time...well it's quite a departure from that tournament style and could make it significantly less interesting to watch. Not to mention we won't be able to look forward to and hype each series...
On August 12 2012 11:47 Demorase wrote: Like someone else said, GOM's intention is probably to mess around with the format to see if less preparation can lead to better finals, especially after the last finals that left many disappointed.
MLG finals have historically been considerably better than GSL finals after all.
The only good MLG finals I can think of are DRG vs Marineking and that's because of who they are and not the format.
And how many good GSL finals has there been, not that many either. From a business and publicity stand point, I guess GOM can't afford to have bad finals happen so often; when people take their time to come see the finals and it's over super quickly in a very one-sidded way, it's not good to promote the game.
More than MLG that is for sure. Everything is better than the old extended series bo3 finals.
On August 12 2012 12:04 Headnoob wrote: Do not like the idea at all, especially when the GSL finals probably won't air at a great time to watch if it's being held in the US.
pretty fuckn shit.
When everyone in NA has to watch the GSL at 5/6 AM... Yeah, one GSL won't hurt buddy.
I completely disagree. I live in NA. I usually watch the VODs. Sometimes I stay up late to catch a few of the matches.
The WCS Korea may have forced GOM to squeeze several weeks of GSL into this one weekend. That's the only way this makes sense to me. It just seems self-defeating otherwise to sacrifice the build-up, preparation, and hype that RO8 ---> Finals would usually produce.
On August 12 2012 09:02 ShiroKaisen wrote: I whole-heartedly disagree with this. It might have been a scheduling necessity due to the WCS Korea taking up this entire month for GSL, but it really pulls the rug out from under GSL players who rely on week-to-week preparation like Mvp and Nestea, and favors streaky players like MarineKing.
...wait, this means MKP could win a GSL.
I'm suddenly torn.
Nestea and MVP will be fine
Naniwa on the other hand would crash and burn in such circumstances
I have no idea where the myth of Naniwa's superiority at prepared matches came from. He's had a ton of great weekend lan results and if you compare his record in them and the best players he's beaten in them to what he's done in the GSL it's no contest.
In general the TL community seems to vastly inflate the difference in various players' performance between the two formats of tournament due to a combination of unfounded dogma and absurdly short memory.
On August 12 2012 12:04 Headnoob wrote: Do not like the idea at all, especially when the GSL finals probably won't air at a great time to watch if it's being held in the US.
pretty fuckn shit.
When everyone in NA has to watch the GSL at 5/6 AM... Yeah, one GSL won't hurt buddy.
I completely disagree. I live in NA. I usually watch the VODs. Sometimes I stay up late to catch a few of the matches.
A lot of people dont have a subscription and there is nothing like watching it live.
Ah, I don't like this idea very much. The GSL has always been famed as the best league because of the game quality and this is only because the players have a long time to prepare for matches. Considering the players are playing all their matches from the RO8 in one day, they will be very tired once they get to the finals... not to mention they don't have any time to prepare builds or strategies.
As for the Team Challenge, I love the idea. The first "korea vs world" that GOM hosted was amazing, hopefully they can get more than 5 players on each team I'd like to see: Stephano, Nerchio, Sen, TLO, Thorzain? Foreign zergs are fun to watch
They had do this once they decided to organize WCS as a month long tourney instead of Weekend Marathon.
GOM was probably like "hey we had a deal with IPL to do another GSL event but team league won't be ready by then and GSL can't either unless we shorten it." Only one they can shorten is the GSL.
GOM has always liked to dabble in formats and switching things up (if you saw their original plan for 2011, it was much more varied). So they probably didn't think too much of it. Plus it's necessary as GOM runs on a per year overall season as well.
Personally, while I prefer the traditional way GSL is run. Having it run Gauntlet-style is a nice change of pace. It's still not all run in one day like MLG and etc. One round of per day with final being focused as the main even isn't as bad.
Thought just occurred to me... GOM said they wanted to have Psy perform Gangnam style at next GSL Finals. Next GSL finals at IPL, which is at Las Vegas. Psy flying over and performing Gangnam Style?! HOLY CHECK!!!
Why is everyone bitching?more starcraft on a weekend? imo the two hardest tournaments on the same weekend?? plus all gslro8 players in ipl5? sounds dope super excited
On August 12 2012 12:47 the_business_og wrote: Why is everyone bitching?more starcraft on a weekend? imo the two hardest tournaments on the same weekend?? plus all gslro8 players in ipl5? sounds dope super excited
It seems like more stuff happens in Vegas now that I've moved away ;p Oh well.
I don't mind them messing around with tournament format, I think it adds a interesting dynamic. I think it would be weird if they suddenly did this for the rest of the tournaments, but doubt that's going to happen.
On August 12 2012 09:02 ShiroKaisen wrote: I whole-heartedly disagree with this. It might have been a scheduling necessity due to the WCS Korea taking up this entire month for GSL, but it really pulls the rug out from under GSL players who rely on week-to-week preparation like Mvp and Nestea, and favors streaky players like MarineKing.
...wait, this means MKP could win a GSL.
I'm suddenly torn.
Nestea and MVP will be fine
Naniwa on the other hand would crash and burn in such circumstances
I have no idea where the myth of Naniwa's superiority at prepared matches came from. He's had a ton of great weekend lan results and if you compare his record in them and the best players he's beaten in them to what he's done in the GSL it's no contest.
In general the TL community seems to vastly inflate the difference in various players' performance between the two formats of tournament due to a combination of unfounded dogma and absurdly short memory.
Absurdly short memory is to blame for a lot of ridiculous claims, It's so easy to forget.
I love the good ol' " IMMvp sucks at foreign events/weekend tournaments " claim, It's unfortunate 4 GSL wins makes people forget you've won three golds at premier foreign weekend tournaments.
Is the "preparation" really the only reason people can point out as being bad? People watch and love MLG just fine. It takes a lot of skill to go through a gauntlet of games in a weekend. Possibly more skill than trying to plan out and methodically counter another person. I don't mind at all and you're all blowing this way out of proportion.
On August 12 2012 09:02 ShiroKaisen wrote: I whole-heartedly disagree with this. It might have been a scheduling necessity due to the WCS Korea taking up this entire month for GSL, but it really pulls the rug out from under GSL players who rely on week-to-week preparation like Mvp and Nestea, and favors streaky players like MarineKing.
...wait, this means MKP could win a GSL.
I'm suddenly torn.
Nestea and MVP will be fine
Naniwa on the other hand would crash and burn in such circumstances
I have no idea where the myth of Naniwa's superiority at prepared matches came from. He's had a ton of great weekend lan results and if you compare his record in them and the best players he's beaten in them to what he's done in the GSL it's no contest.
In general the TL community seems to vastly inflate the difference in various players' performance between the two formats of tournament due to a combination of unfounded dogma and absurdly short memory.
Absurdly short memory is to blame for a lot of ridiculous claims, It's so easy to forget.
well to be fair, since he has started focusing on GSL, he hasn't had the success at weekend lans like he used to. He even admitted himself that in WCS Sweden he wasn't prepared well for it as he only had 2 builds for SortOf and that ended up costing him top 3 and a trip to WCS Europe.
On August 12 2012 12:55 Uncultured wrote: Is the "preparation" really the only reason people can point out as being bad? People watch and love MLG just fine. It takes a lot of skill to go through a gauntlet of games in a weekend. Possibly more skill than trying to plan out and methodically counter another person. I don't mind at all and you're all blowing this way out of proportion.
but thats the thing, its completely changing what GSL is. we have a ton of weekend warrior tournaments. hell this will be happening at one! preparation is huge when it comes to GSL.
not to mention i still dont see how ipl5, ro8 of gsl and onward, and the korea vs the world team match are all supposed to happen in one weekend at teh same venue.
I love this idea and happy to see some variety in the scheduling for GSL. It's been really repetitive last couple of seasons with no/little change except the seeding changes. Last gsl final was garbage so lets hope this one ends up being really good !
On August 12 2012 12:55 Uncultured wrote: Is the "preparation" really the only reason people can point out as being bad? People watch and love MLG just fine. It takes a lot of skill to go through a gauntlet of games in a weekend. Possibly more skill than trying to plan out and methodically counter another person. I don't mind at all and you're all blowing this way out of proportion.
Here are my reasons why this is bad:
- GSL is supposed to be a preparation style tournament, this takes away from that - The hype buildup to the finals is really shitty at weekend tournaments compared to GSL - Players will not be able to perform their best due to jetlag/lack of prep - You're shitting on the legacy of GSL by handing out a Code S championship for winning a weekend event - IPL5 will be happening at the same time, multiple players in the GSL ro8 may also be in IPL5 and it will split their focus, reducing their chances to win GSL and leaving even less prep time.
On August 12 2012 10:42 diArcipE wrote: Naniwa > Stephano > Nerchio > Thorzain > Mana
MC > MVP > DRG > Taeja > MKP
Best supporter and fan. ME
Parting or Squirtle should be in some of that Korean list. DRG isnt doing that great lately, MKP was silent for some time, MVP is pretty inconsistent. So no, not a most optimal list, but i guess even with that list it would be just fine for Koreans.
bullshit GSL, how the hell can they think having the Round of 8 --> Finals of Code S in IPL5? Imagine if players like MKP, Taeja or Polt play in IPL5 and have to juggle both IPL5 and Code S. Plus, one of the reasons why we get such good games in GSL is b.c. of the preparation time
» on a brighter note: yay for GSL world championships 2
On August 12 2012 10:42 diArcipE wrote: Naniwa > Stephano > Nerchio > Thorzain > Mana
MC > MVP > DRG > Taeja > MKP
Best supporter and fan. ME
Parting or Squirtle should be in some of that Korean list. DRG isnt doing that great lately, MKP was silent for some time, MVP is pretty inconsistent. So no, not a most optimal list, but i guess even with that list it would be just fine for Koreans.
You are aware that DRG was in round of 4 like 2 weeks ago? And MKP and DRG are 1/4th of the gsl players in OSL. MVP I can agree with to some extent, but his injury plays a big part in that. I dont see either of your arguements about DRG or MKP being valid, especially because neither Parting nor Squirtle are being talked about a lot right now either and both go out of GSL before DRG.
On August 12 2012 10:42 diArcipE wrote: Naniwa > Stephano > Nerchio > Thorzain > Mana
MC > MVP > DRG > Taeja > MKP
Best supporter and fan. ME
Parting or Squirtle should be in some of that Korean list. DRG isnt doing that great lately, MKP was silent for some time, MVP is pretty inconsistent. So no, not a most optimal list, but i guess even with that list it would be just fine for Koreans.
Yes because we've been hearing a lot about Parting and Squirtle lately. DRG has lost his last like 2 games and made round of 4, where were Parting and Squirtle alst GSL season? Out in round of 32? Or did they amke round of 16?
Gotta love fair weather friends, man. But to be fair...DRG has disappointed lately
Dude he lost to MC and Creator Prime (in a series he shoulve won) I dont see how he has "disappointed" really (well i guess by his standards every game he loses is a disappointement if you are trying to argue that) Everybody has a few bad games, he;ll be back for GSL season 4 and the first SC2 OSL.
On August 12 2012 13:13 ShowTheLights wrote: bullshit GSL, how the hell can they think having the Round of 8 --> Finals of Code S in IPL5? Imagine if players like MKP, Taeja or Polt play in IPL5 and have to juggle both IPL5 and Code S. Plus, one of the reasons why we get such good games in GSL is b.c. of the preparation time
» on a brighter note: yay for GSL world championships 2
Some of the best games aren't prepared, cutthroat strategies though. The long epic matches often times are just raw mechanics vs raw mechanics, not refined build orders.
On August 12 2012 10:42 diArcipE wrote: Naniwa > Stephano > Nerchio > Thorzain > Mana
MC > MVP > DRG > Taeja > MKP
Best supporter and fan. ME
Parting or Squirtle should be in some of that Korean list. DRG isnt doing that great lately, MKP was silent for some time, MVP is pretty inconsistent. So no, not a most optimal list, but i guess even with that list it would be just fine for Koreans.
Yes because we've been hearing a lot about Parting and Squirtle lately. DRG has lost his last like 2 games and made round of 4, where were Parting and Squirtle alst GSL season? Out in round of 32? Or did they amke round of 16?
We ve been hearing from them just fine, WCS Korea, and Code A vs Alive and Gumiho.
I HATE this. Previously, players are given a week to prep for upcoming players/games. Now you're going to make them more or less play 3-4 nights in a row, possibly even doing double duty. That means it's no longer a contest to see who is the most skilled, now it's a stamina competition.
MVP isn't even playing right now and has just had wrist surgery, i highly doubt he will be able to play at a top level in time for IPL... As far as i can tell this is the best koreans vs the best foreigners, not the fan favourites or historically most successful players.
As far as i can see, players like mvp, mkp, thorzain etc have all been incredibly good at points in their career, but have failed to have results recently/are definitely nto at the top of their game and therefore have no place in this.
And having gsl there is just stupid. GSL is good because it is the pinacle of play, this is undermined by jetlagging the players and then making them play without preperation. Hopefully GSL realises that they are about to have serious competition in the form of the OSL because as it stands OSL seems more and more attractive, not screwing over there schedule just to play at ipl, high quality stream etc etc.
On August 12 2012 10:42 diArcipE wrote: Naniwa > Stephano > Nerchio > Thorzain > Mana
MC > MVP > DRG > Taeja > MKP
Best supporter and fan. ME
Parting or Squirtle should be in some of that Korean list. DRG isnt doing that great lately, MKP was silent for some time, MVP is pretty inconsistent. So no, not a most optimal list, but i guess even with that list it would be just fine for Koreans.
Yes because we've been hearing a lot about Parting and Squirtle lately. DRG has lost his last like 2 games and made round of 4, where were Parting and Squirtle alst GSL season? Out in round of 32? Or did they amke round of 16?
We ve been hearing from them just fine, WCS Korea.
On August 12 2012 10:42 diArcipE wrote: Naniwa > Stephano > Nerchio > Thorzain > Mana
MC > MVP > DRG > Taeja > MKP
Best supporter and fan. ME
Parting or Squirtle should be in some of that Korean list. DRG isnt doing that great lately, MKP was silent for some time, MVP is pretty inconsistent. So no, not a most optimal list, but i guess even with that list it would be just fine for Koreans.
Yes because we've been hearing a lot about Parting and Squirtle lately. DRG has lost his last like 2 games and made round of 4, where were Parting and Squirtle alst GSL season? Out in round of 32? Or did they amke round of 16?
We ve been hearing from them just fine, WCS Korea.
So you throw in Parting and Squirtle because Squirtle winning in the first two rounds of the tournament and Parting being in the second round? Anyway, Im done with this conversation, saying who will be on the team is just speculation anyway.
On August 12 2012 12:55 Uncultured wrote: Is the "preparation" really the only reason people can point out as being bad? People watch and love MLG just fine. It takes a lot of skill to go through a gauntlet of games in a weekend. Possibly more skill than trying to plan out and methodically counter another person. I don't mind at all and you're all blowing this way out of proportion.
satellites qualified -> open bracket -> six progress = 16 (more than six if needed e.g. if finalists are already qualified e.g. mkp or taeja)
16 players play groups -> single elim
i know it's a changed format from announced but this would work better
also as it is, IPL5 would in be in mid-oct. i'm thinking it might be better for late oct so they can play ro8 and ro4 at home
On August 12 2012 13:23 TommyP wrote: Dude he lost to MC and Creator Prime (in a series he shoulve won) I dont see how he has "disappointed" really (well i guess by his standards every game he loses is a disappointement if you are trying to argue that) Everybody has a few bad games, he;ll be back for GSL season 4 and the first SC2 OSL.
no such thing really as "should have won" - i am not so sure drg is that heavily favoured against either of them anyway. unless we're talking about D/C or something, "should have" just undermines the winner's skill
On August 12 2012 12:45 RaiKageRyu wrote: Thought just occurred to me... GOM said they wanted to have Psy perform Gangnam style at next GSL Finals. Next GSL finals at IPL, which is at Las Vegas. Psy flying over and performing Gangnam Style?! HOLY CHECK!!!
hoooo damnnnnn
also one thing to think about i guess is the fact that the blizzard cup last year was pretty much the same as a weekend tourney so yea
On August 12 2012 13:44 opterown wrote: also as it is, IPL5 would in be in mid-oct. i'm thinking it might be better for late oct so they can play ro8 and ro4 at home
IPL5 will take place in November, according to the Amateur Satellite OP
On August 12 2012 13:44 opterown wrote: also as it is, IPL5 would in be in mid-oct. i'm thinking it might be better for late oct so they can play ro8 and ro4 at home
IPL5 will take place in November, according to the Amateur Satellite OP
the GSL schedule on their korean site has the RO8 for GSL4 happening in early october so unless they delay season 4, IPL5 has to happen in october
crap idea. GSL has always been about longer term preparation for opponents. This will prevent alot of unique strategies from being thought out and used.
On August 12 2012 13:44 opterown wrote: also as it is, IPL5 would in be in mid-oct. i'm thinking it might be better for late oct so they can play ro8 and ro4 at home
IPL5 will take place in November, according to the Amateur Satellite OP
the GSL schedule on their korean site has the RO8 for GSL4 happening in early october so unless they delay season 4, IPL5 has to happen in october
Ok, then we have to wait for wither GOM or IPL to confirm when it will really take place
This is a pretty frustrating announcement. Finals, sure... But uerh, it's not really like the GSL to do this. RO8 is now an single elim arena OHKO em all or something?
I really don;t like the fact that the preparation will be removed from the GSL finals.
The preparation is what makes the GSL so so good. Its part of the drama and suspense. Watching Seed proxy Robo MC with prism 4 gate was the greatest moment in a televised PvP I have ever seen. And yes, as a protoss player I am completely serious.
darn, this will change the GSL a bit up then... less time to prepare between games, like what this guy said
On August 12 2012 09:02 ShiroKaisen wrote: I whole-heartedly disagree with this. It might have been a scheduling necessity due to the WCS Korea taking up this entire month for GSL, but it really pulls the rug out from under GSL players who rely on week-to-week preparation like Mvp and Nestea, and favors streaky players like MarineKing.
...wait, this means MKP could win a GSL.
I'm suddenly torn.
Completely agree
I'm also glad that it seems that a good majority of people here dislike this!
We'll just have to see how well this is going to play out for future korean/foreigner cross over events. This will affect the players training in some way; not all of course.
Why did anyone anywhere decide that this was an OK thing to do? Having the entire thing in one weekend? What? Almost no preparation time for the players whatsoever - especially when some of the favorites will have to juggle GSL with IPL? This is a very poor decision.
I'm kind of torn myself. I agree with the people who are saying that the players won't have time to prepare etc, etc. But I also think to myself even with all that preparation most of the GSL finals have been lackluster.
Anywho, I wonder who the power at be made this decision, was it GSL thinking it was a good idea, or was it IPL using their power to have GSL hold the finals at IPL5
Edit: As the guy above me has also said, if IPL5 is anything like todays broadcast everybody loses. If this is to happen SC2 has got to be the #1 priority.
The only way I truly find this acceptable is if the GSL Grand Finals is the main event and not IPL5.
Otherwise, if they have the GSL Grand Finals played before IPL5's Grand Finals, it just completely cheapens the prestige for the most competitive tournament in the world.
On August 12 2012 14:29 DrakeFZX3 wrote: The only way I truly find this acceptable is if the GSL Grand Finals is the main event and not IPL5.
Otherwise, if they have the GSL Grand Finals played before IPL5's Grand Finals, it just completely cheapens the prestige for the most competitive tournament in the world.
Not to mention no one gave a shit about the winner of IPL4 (Squirtle won it ) so to be attached to this is preposterous. Also, playing in both tournaments at the same time is exhausting - there is no way this is going to work.
On August 12 2012 14:29 DrakeFZX3 wrote: The only way I truly find this acceptable is if the GSL Grand Finals is the main event and not IPL5.
Otherwise, if they have the GSL Grand Finals played before IPL5's Grand Finals, it just completely cheapens the prestige for the most competitive tournament in the world.
Not to mention no one gave a shit about the winner of IPL4 (Squirtle won it ) so to be attached to this is preposterous. Also, playing in both tournaments at the same time is exhausting - there is no way this is going to work.
the silver lining in it all is that IPL5 shouldn't be as long a tournament as IPL4 with only 40 people playing total in a double elimination. also all the GSL players should be used to playing back to back days given that most if not all have gone overseas to play at MLG, Dreamhack, etc and the quality of play is still really good.
that said... IGN needs to step up their production efforts in making sure they keep to schedule. if the IPL finals drags on till past midnight on Sunday again...
On August 12 2012 14:42 asongdotnet wrote: the silver lining in it all is that IPL5 shouldn't be as long a tournament as IPL4 with only 40 people playing total in a double elimination. also all the GSL players should be used to playing back to back days given that most if not all have gone overseas to play at MLG, Dreamhack, etc and the quality of play is still really good.
that said... IGN needs to step up their production efforts in making sure they keep to schedule. if the IPL finals drags on till past midnight on Sunday again...
pretty sure its bigger than 40 players now because of the whole qualification scheduling fiasco
Definitely looking forward to another GSL World Championship, but I don't understand how they're going to have so many rounds of GSL in such a short amount of time. GSL is all about preparation, rather than stamina (like MLGs), and they should stay that way...
ok my thoughts on IPL5 format: 2 GSL Finalists IPL4 Winner - aLive 7 Regional Winners - Crank, MKP, Taeja, Polt, Sleep, Snute, Xigua = 10 players
These ten players are distributed across four groups of 4 each (six from open bracket TBA)
Satellite Qualifiers = 32 players currently GSL WC = 10 more players =42 players currently There will probably be more qualifiers = add, say, 22 more players =64 players.
These 64 players play a huge double elimination, top 6 qualify for groups. (sort of like MLG open brackets, but instead of buying player passes you need to qualify for spots)
=16 players, in 4x4 groups. If there are overlaps e.g. the GSLWC players are already qualified for OB, or the Regional Winners are GSL finalists as well, etc., just replace them with other OB players etc. (so seven players come from OB instead, etc)
Single elim after groups.
schedule the IPL5 finals -> GSLWC showmatch -> GSL4 finals.
If the GSL4 finalists were slated for the GSLWC showmatch, they can withdraw for prep. reason for the GSLWC showmatch in between is that if the GSL4 finalists were the same as the IPL5 finalists, they have a few hours to rest while the GSLWC goes one.
With this kind of deal between IPL and GSL, I really hope IGN stop the crap and let SC2 be the main event, not like during the IPL TAC3 where you could clearly see the 1 team was on the LoL event. -_-
Not sure about having no preparation between the quarter, semi and finals tho.. it will probably make less interessing games...
On August 12 2012 15:01 blade55555 wrote: I'll be honest I am not a fan of GSL code s ro8- finals being played in 3 days (I imagine ro8 first day, semis next, finals last).
Fionn stated on the first page it will be Ro8, one week, semi's week and a half finals.. he should probably add it to op so people aren't as confused
On August 12 2012 15:01 blade55555 wrote: I'll be honest I am not a fan of GSL code s ro8- finals being played in 3 days (I imagine ro8 first day, semis next, finals last).
Fionn stated on the first page it will be Ro8, one week, semi's week and a half finals.. he should probably add it to op so people aren't as confused
nono Fionn said it is USUALLY ro8-1week-ro4-1.5weeks-finals but if it's at IPL5, it'll likely be one per day
I guess the WCS schedule force them to shorten the GSL time to make the new yearly schedule fits with the remaining time. At least it should be only this GSL, so I would just take it as a change of pace once in awhile.
On August 12 2012 14:42 asongdotnet wrote: the silver lining in it all is that IPL5 shouldn't be as long a tournament as IPL4 with only 40 people playing total in a double elimination. also all the GSL players should be used to playing back to back days given that most if not all have gone overseas to play at MLG, Dreamhack, etc and the quality of play is still really good.
that said... IGN needs to step up their production efforts in making sure they keep to schedule. if the IPL finals drags on till past midnight on Sunday again...
pretty sure its bigger than 40 players now because of the whole qualification scheduling fiasco
Is there an invdividual tournament in the World championship too?? Like last time they did Korea v. World and then the 16 players were in an actual tournament if i remember correctly.
I think most of the players in the top 8 of GSL have probably prepared enough for each other... They play each other on ladder and practice with each other ALL the time. I understand that if they had a week to study their opponent it is going to make for a better timed out build, however even if they were to find out 5 minutes before the game they would still know each other's styles well enough to not get romped.. Come on guys, give them some credit. They will play well and there will be good games, and it will be fair for both players... They ARE the BEST players in the world after all.... Should be a fantastic weekend for SC though. IPL 4 was AMAZING. IPL 5 should be even better!!
Hate this change. IPL's production quality has been spotty at best and GSL was never meant to be played with 3 rounds in such a short time. No, no, no.
On August 12 2012 15:55 ThaGunShow wrote: I think most of the players in the top 8 of GSL have probably prepared enough for each other... They play each other on ladder and practice with each other ALL the time. I understand that if they had a week to study their opponent it is going to make for a better timed out build, however even if they were to find out 5 minutes before the game they would still know each other's styles well enough to not get romped.. Come on guys, give them some credit. They will play well and there will be good games, and it will be fair for both players... They ARE the BEST players in the world after all.... Should be a fantastic weekend for SC though. IPL 4 was AMAZING. IPL 5 should be even better!!
One thing you're leaving out is relaxation time. You have to win 3 matches to become the champion. Instead of having about 4 weeks to prepare and relax, you're doing this ~1 a day. There's less time to prepare mentally.
However, I'm faithful enough in GOM to believe that they have thought this through and they don't think it should be too bad.
On August 12 2012 15:55 ThaGunShow wrote: I think most of the players in the top 8 of GSL have probably prepared enough for each other... They play each other on ladder and practice with each other ALL the time. I understand that if they had a week to study their opponent it is going to make for a better timed out build, however even if they were to find out 5 minutes before the game they would still know each other's styles well enough to not get romped.. Come on guys, give them some credit. They will play well and there will be good games, and it will be fair for both players... They ARE the BEST players in the world after all.... Should be a fantastic weekend for SC though. IPL 4 was AMAZING. IPL 5 should be even better!!
One thing you're leaving out is relaxation time. You have to win 3 matches to become the champion. Instead of having about 4 weeks to prepare and relax, you're doing this ~1 a day. There's less time to prepare mentally.
However, I'm faithful enough in GOM to believe that they have thought this through and they don't think it should be too bad.
yeah, when you consider the blizzcup was essentially a weekend tourney and still counted as a gsl (mma got a badge lol), it's not that bad haha
Worst idea ever. GSL is the tournament you expect people to bring out their best play because they have time to prepare their strategy, study their opponent and bring out the best possible performance.
On August 12 2012 15:55 ThaGunShow wrote: I think most of the players in the top 8 of GSL have probably prepared enough for each other... They play each other on ladder and practice with each other ALL the time. I understand that if they had a week to study their opponent it is going to make for a better timed out build, however even if they were to find out 5 minutes before the game they would still know each other's styles well enough to not get romped.. Come on guys, give them some credit. They will play well and there will be good games, and it will be fair for both players... They ARE the BEST players in the world after all.... Should be a fantastic weekend for SC though. IPL 4 was AMAZING. IPL 5 should be even better!!
One thing you're leaving out is relaxation time. You have to win 3 matches to become the champion. Instead of having about 4 weeks to prepare and relax, you're doing this ~1 a day. There's less time to prepare mentally.
However, I'm faithful enough in GOM to believe that they have thought this through and they don't think it should be too bad.
yeah, when you consider the blizzcup was essentially a weekend tourney and still counted as a gsl (mma got a badge lol), it's not that bad haha
MMA deserved a badge just for how epic the series was. I consider Game 7 of MMA/DRG to be the greatest SC2 game to date.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
Scarlett? What a joke, more like Huk or Mana (or Major, or a lot of players way better than scarlett)
call scarlett a joke then suggest HuK? extreme fanboyism or just stupidity can't tell
depends what they want this team to be. If they want an all=stars of foreigners, they want Huk because he did achieve a lot even if right now he's not at the top anymore. And if they just want the best, there are 1000 european players better than Scarlett
really dislike this RO8 till finals being played with no preparation... GSL is different because they prepare crazy stuff for every games and think of strategy with their teammates and so on, now it's going to be like every other tournament... makes me sad
Its not a huge deal since the Ro8 players will probably have played each other multiple times even on the maps in question since GSL has been somewhat unchanging in there map pool which in this instance only works to the players benefit. They know there opponents very well and they know the maps in question very well and probalby know most of the build orders they would use on them anyway.
That being said the only real awesome part of this announcement is the 5v5 special event.
I don't understand the whole community pitch forking the GSL just because players don't have time to prepare. TO BECOME A GSL CHAMPION you have to endure any situation any time, that proves what a true champion is. I LOVE the idea of having the GSL RO8 and GSL World Championships at IPL5. Quit being whining little beaches, and actually show some love to GSL for even coming to IPL for fuck sakes.
On August 12 2012 16:37 naux wrote: I don't understand the whole community pitch forking the GSL just because players don't have time to prepare. TO BECOME A GSL CHAMPION you have to endure any situation any time, that proves what a true champion is. I LOVE the idea of having the GSL RO8 and GSL World Championships at IPL5. Quit being whining little beaches, and actually show some love to GSL for even coming to IPL for fuck sakes.
I would agree, but I kinda want to be able to see the GSL finals, and so far IPL has not deliverd.
Might make for good finals for once, since usually one person comes a lot more prepared than the other, I just hope the schedule isn't too condensed, and maybe make it a 3/4 day even instead of just a 2 day event.
Also from the looks of it, WCS Korea is making GOM look for a way to fit everything that is announced/planned for 2012 to complete, this saves them some 3weeks(almost one month).
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
Scarlett? What a joke, more like Huk or Mana (or Major, or a lot of players way better than scarlett)
call scarlett a joke then suggest HuK? extreme fanboyism or just stupidity can't tell
depends what they want this team to be. If they want an all=stars of foreigners, they want Huk because he did achieve a lot even if right now he's not at the top anymore. And if they just want the best, there are 1000 european players better than Scarlett
If you want to make a point you really shouldn't be so damn hyperbolic, it just make you look more biased.
On August 12 2012 16:37 naux wrote: I don't understand the whole community pitch forking the GSL just because players don't have time to prepare. TO BECOME A GSL CHAMPION you have to endure any situation any time, that proves what a true champion is. I LOVE the idea of having the GSL RO8 and GSL World Championships at IPL5. Quit being whining little beaches, and actually show some love to GSL for even coming to IPL for fuck sakes.
Theatre Sports a totally legit transition for GSL season 5 then. I think Seed will be able to bonjwa that season.
Anyway, we're whining like "little beaches" (aha what) because IPL already runs this sort of tournament thing where people play a tonne of games in a short period. On the same weekend right?
Basically I see it that they'll fly 8 GSL players out and all 8 of them will say "Well there goes IPL5, I'll just do GSL" OR someone is actually going to go insane. It's not only too many games, but not in the form of their typical games. Imagine MLG held a championship without an open bracket. Or NASL stopped doing pool play. Most premier tournaments have a unique aspect, and I like the timing between GSL.
I'm happy to see GSL coming to IPL. Just not all the matches. I'd rather see, for example, Seed play GSL, WC AND IPL5, but he would be insane to do all that in the current context. Unless I'm totally missing how their schedule is going to work?
This kind of thing really shouldn't be screwed with. A lot of Koreans make or break in the process which is GSL. If this happens ONE time, it's still bullshit, but whatever. If you really decide to change to this format on a regular basis, you really take away the only thing that makes your tournament truly stand out, and that is the integrity of the format. Sure you have great production, but eventually people can catch up in that, we already have Koreans traveling, so that's not exclusive either. If you dumb down your format, you will loose the reason why this is the most prestigious tournament in the world... Don't do this ever again.
as long as they let GOM do all the production, im fine with this... after the SH** they pulled yesterday at the IPL TAC finals i lost all confidence in them.. it was really pathetic (and ppl payed for that^^ - i dont think anyone will get there money back which they should)
On August 12 2012 09:00 BathTubNZ wrote: So two weeks of GSL in 1 weekend? Doesn't that negate the whole 'planning for your opponent' aspect of GSL?
This. What are they thinking. One of the aspects I love the most about gsl is the fact that the play players have had time to prepare awesome strats for that specific opponent.
There are enough tournaments that cram everything in a single weekend, please keep the GSL preparation-based!!! Maybe just do the Ro8 matches on the IPL weekend if that makes it easier for the players attending, but no more please.
I don't mind particularly much that they want to put a new spin on one GSL season. It's not like this is going to become a regular occurrence (it can't be!). So while I don't like the idea, I'm still going to enjoy the novelty of it, as it's certainly going to be one of the most unique takes on a GSL finals yet.
agreed with most of the complaints here. This totally ruins the spaced out format of GSL and gives absolutely no time for preparation . The quality of games will inevitably suffer
On August 12 2012 16:37 naux wrote: I don't understand the whole community pitch forking the GSL just because players don't have time to prepare. TO BECOME A GSL CHAMPION you have to endure any situation any time, that proves what a true champion is. I LOVE the idea of having the GSL RO8 and GSL World Championships at IPL5. Quit being whining little beaches, and actually show some love to GSL for even coming to IPL for fuck sakes.
I fully agree with that, a really good player should do well in both week-end tournaments like IPL's and Dreamhack's and preparation tournament like GSL.
And as someone said, why does this receives complains but not the Blizzard Cup?
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
Not scarlett. I'd say mana or maybe maybe major.
ROFL not scarlett?? Are you crazy? Scarlett is better than Nerchio, thorzain, MaNa, AND Major.... You clearly haven't watched her play very much... Also, you forgot about VortiX... Should be NaNi, Stephano, Scarlett, VortiX, and SaSe or ThorZaIN or Nerchio
You are not really objective here, are you? Scarlett has nothing going for here except for winning WCS Canada which wasn't really that stucked tournament. Saying that she is better than MaNa - recent DH winner - or Nerchio - recent HSC winner and non korean no. 2 ELO player behind Stephano - or ThorZaIN - who actually proven that he can beat very good koreans - is ridiculous.
Nevertheless the idea of Ro8, semis and final of GSL in one weekend is plain stupid. From the title I assumed that the Ro8 alone will be played with semis and GF back in korea.
On August 12 2012 16:37 naux wrote: I don't understand the whole community pitch forking the GSL just because players don't have time to prepare. TO BECOME A GSL CHAMPION you have to endure any situation any time, that proves what a true champion is. I LOVE the idea of having the GSL RO8 and GSL World Championships at IPL5. Quit being whining little beaches, and actually show some love to GSL for even coming to IPL for fuck sakes.
And as someone said, why does this receives complains but not the Blizzard Cup?
Blizzard Cup is Blizzard Cup. It just happens to be hosted by GomTV. Code S is GSL Code S. It is known to operate with a week or more between games.
I really hate to say this but I don't like the move GOM made here. Unless GOM is 100% doing their own thing in (Cosmopolitan was it?) I don't see this turning out good at all unfortunately. And even then this will never reach the production value of code S finals in Korea. I just don't see them pulling decent enough audience in Vegas to give the true feeling of eSports where the crowd is roaring and cheering.
Wish they would've partnered up with dreamhack for example. Code S finals in Dreamarena <3! OR.. Take Iron Squid event for example, smaller organisation, not the same budget as bigger organisations BUT kickass venue, decent production and you can count on the French to be ROARING in excitement.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
so scarlett huh? you know winning Canada nationals is not that big of a deal... even winning NA continentals wouldn't be
Naniwa Stephano Nerchio Mana (I'm sure Mana will be even more of a beast after some months of training in korea than he already is) maybe thorzain but just to have a terran in there
On August 12 2012 17:46 Anonymous_Coward wrote: Did tournaments not learn anything from MLG Spring/WCS?
Multiple tournaments at one event, with players participating in both is a terrible idea.
Yes, if you schedule then to take place during the same time during the days. During Dreamhack Summer, there were also the E-sport SM Grand Final, and it was all scheduled in a way that players could play in both.
GSL World Championship: A 5v5 show match between five of the best foreigners and five of the best Koreans.
GSL 2012 Code S Season 4: The Ro8 through the grand finals will be played in Las Vegas at IPL5.
So a 5 - 0 for the Koreans and hopefull and interesting Series to end out the GSL. (going by yesterdays IPL TAC) Fine i'll be optimistic! 5 - 1 for Korea!
Don't like the Ro8 to Finals in 1 weekend though, I like that players can prepare special stuff for there oppononts in the normal format.
Well, if IPL continues to decrease in quality, then this is not really something to look forward to, unless GSL produces their own shit and doesn't let IPL touch anything.
Don't get why Gom is making all the efforts outside of Korea when Sc2 is doing super bad in Korea, and that's the market they should be worried about. :p
you guys are failing to realize that the players will have normal prep time for the ro8. they will also have a full day for ro4 and another full day to prepare for the final which is not like a normal weekend tournament at all.
On August 12 2012 09:08 Fionn wrote: It's three weeks of GSL. Ro8 takes two days and then a week break for semifinals. Then the semifinals occur and the finalists get a week and a half to practice for the final.
It makes sense when you realize we only have four months left in the year and GOM still needs to do GSL4/5 an Blizzard Cup.
Sorry if it has been asked/answered but is a fifth GSL a must? I'd have no problem with having only 4 GSLs a year, even though I'm paying a sub. At least the winner would matter and GSL would have some more prestige. I'm really hating this idea.
I'm looking forward GSL WC very much. Hope it will be an all-kill format.
On the other hand, I'm not fan of a week-end GSL as it screws the very concept of GSL itself, but I guess it's better to have some kind of "fake" GSL than nothing, considering schedule conflict with WCS...
On August 12 2012 17:45 Shinobi1982 wrote: I really hate to say this but I don't like the move GOM made here. Unless GOM is 100% doing their own thing in (Cosmopolitan was it?) I don't see this turning out good at all unfortunately. And even then this will never reach the production value of code S finals in Korea. I just don't see them pulling decent enough audience in Vegas to give the true feeling of eSports where the crowd is roaring and cheering.
Wish they would've partnered up with dreamhack for example. Code S finals in Dreamarena <3! OR.. Take Iron Squid event for example, smaller organisation, not the same budget as bigger organisations BUT kickass venue, decent production and you can count on the French to be ROARING in excitement.
Just my 2ct.
I dislike them hosting the GSL with anyone. Even if they had the most amazing production ever with IPL, they are now asking players to play in completely different way compared to every proper GSL, and the champion will always have a mark next to his name, saying that championship was the one Gom ran with IPL, in a different way. MMA's Blizzard Cup title has the same mark, and it is unfortunate that something so significant can be tarred(at least, in my eyes it is) by something so easily just not done. It also will not quite have that unique feeling that comes with Korean Starcraft. It just will not feel right. It did not feel quite right when they hosted the GSTL at IPL, and that was just the finals, compared to what they have said they'll do here.
The only exception I can see with this is when they hosted it at blizzcon, mostly because Blizzcon is such a different event that it doesn't feel watered down. It still didn't have that certain magic that Korean SC2 has, but the uniqueness of Blizzcon made up for it. I really hope this will only be a one time thing for GOM. If they want to travel for the finals that is awesome, but they should do it only for the finals and do it by themselves. If the money and/or infrastructure isn't available for them to do it on their own, than they should just continue doing what they are doing. Changing the best part of the tournament in order to travel and partner with IPL just seems like a poor decision.
On August 12 2012 17:46 Anonymous_Coward wrote: Did tournaments not learn anything from MLG Spring/WCS?
Multiple tournaments at one event, with players participating in both is a terrible idea.
There's a big difference between "multiple tournaments" in a weekend having 160/64/8 participants and having 40 (maybe up to 64 depending on the additional qualifiers)/8/10. Besides, it's not like MLG changed their plans of running the Summer Championship and WCS NA concurrently, with 232 and 32 players, respectively.
On August 12 2012 16:37 naux wrote: I don't understand the whole community pitch forking the GSL just because players don't have time to prepare. TO BECOME A GSL CHAMPION you have to endure any situation any time, that proves what a true champion is. I LOVE the idea of having the GSL RO8 and GSL World Championships at IPL5. Quit being whining little beaches, and actually show some love to GSL for even coming to IPL for fuck sakes.
Theatre Sports a totally legit transition for GSL season 5 then. I think Seed will be able to bonjwa that season.
Anyway, we're whining like "little beaches" (aha what) because IPL already runs this sort of tournament thing where people play a tonne of games in a short period. On the same weekend right?
Basically I see it that they'll fly 8 GSL players out and all 8 of them will say "Well there goes IPL5, I'll just do GSL" OR someone is actually going to go insane. It's not only too many games, but not in the form of their typical games. Imagine MLG held a championship without an open bracket. Or NASL stopped doing pool play. Most premier tournaments have a unique aspect, and I like the timing between GSL.
I'm happy to see GSL coming to IPL. Just not all the matches. I'd rather see, for example, Seed play GSL, WC AND IPL5, but he would be insane to do all that in the current context. Unless I'm totally missing how their schedule is going to work?
The thing is there are SO MANY Starcraft 2 tournaments that people can take advantage of. Players like Tasteless, Day9, Artosis NEVER got the luck to ever play in these huge tournaments for big prize pools, just imagine if they were in there prime, would they be our Stephano or ThorZain?
I know i might be rumbling on another subject but i wish people understand this, playing in 2 tournaments is better than playing in NONE. That's why i always say appreciate Artosis, and players like Tasteless for what they did for the foreign SCENE. Grinds my gears when i see people say things like they are overrated, that is a slap to Starcraft and us.
Players that are coming from GSL they can prove they are more then just a 1 trick pony and maybe going deep into another tournament. And people complaining about having 2 tournaments going at ONCE, like WTF are you serious? More SC2 for me i don't care. It's going to effect 8 players NOT like 20 so calm down.
On August 12 2012 17:46 Anonymous_Coward wrote: Did tournaments not learn anything from MLG Spring/WCS?
Multiple tournaments at one event, with players participating in both is a terrible idea.
There's a big difference between "multiple tournaments" in a weekend having 160/64/8 participants and having 40 (maybe up to 64 depending on the additional qualifiers)/8/10. Besides, it's not like MLG changed their plans of running the Summer Championship and WCS NA concurrently, with 232 and 32 players, respectively.
And it's still is a bad idea.
This is not good from a competitive standpoint(Players have less time to prepare and some may even have to play to tourneys at once)
This is not good from a production standpoint(IPL lack credibility, and because it is on their turf I would expect they would have a lot to do with the production, sadly)
This is not good for variance(We already have tonnes of weekend tournaments, why would we need another one?)
This is not good for consistency(Breaks the tradition of GSL of being a preparation tournament, This will inevitable stain the legacy of the event)
The only reason I see to support this is just because it's convienient for people in NA to watch and attend. Thats purely out of self-interest.
Dont know how you can consider the "better" finals argument valid. The reason weekend events have had more exciting finals is simply because there have been more of them. I think the real reason for the overall lackluster finals are the Bo7. Look at BW, Bo5. The finals have been better in my experience. Sure there have been some bad ones(Flash vs Movie), but overall.
On August 12 2012 09:08 Fionn wrote: It's three weeks of GSL. Ro8 takes two days and then a week break for semifinals. Then the semifinals occur and the finalists get a week and a half to practice for the final.
It makes sense when you realize we only have four months left in the year and GOM still needs to do GSL4/5 an Blizzard Cup.
Sorry if it has been asked/answered but is a fifth GSL a must? I'd have no problem with having only 4 GSLs a year, even though I'm paying a sub. At least the winner would matter and GSL would have some more prestige. I'm really hating this idea.
Well, GOM said in the beginning of the year that there would be five GSLs (And three GSTL's), but WCS wasn't officially announced until April, so that could have an impact on their schedule.
Can't they do something like hosting the first half of a GSL season during 2012 and the second half 2013, they did that with S1 this year (U/D was played between Blizzard Cup and Christmas, and Code S begun in early January)
On August 12 2012 09:08 Fionn wrote: It's three weeks of GSL. Ro8 takes two days and then a week break for semifinals. Then the semifinals occur and the finalists get a week and a half to practice for the final.
It makes sense when you realize we only have four months left in the year and GOM still needs to do GSL4/5 an Blizzard Cup.
Sorry if it has been asked/answered but is a fifth GSL a must? I'd have no problem with having only 4 GSLs a year, even though I'm paying a sub. At least the winner would matter and GSL would have some more prestige. I'm really hating this idea.
If all else fails, I think they'd rather just run season 5 into 2013 (with the yearly tickets still being good) than cancel it, lest they draw the ire of yearly ticket holders, many of whom were drawn to making their purchases by advertised "savings" rates based on GOM producing five GSL leagues. They'd have to issue refunds, or else be accused of running a bait-and-switch (well, that would happen anyway even with the refunds).
If you saw the dual stream premium controversy from Season 2 Code A, the backlash would be ten times worse.
On August 12 2012 12:55 Uncultured wrote: Is the "preparation" really the only reason people can point out as being bad? People watch and love MLG just fine. It takes a lot of skill to go through a gauntlet of games in a weekend. Possibly more skill than trying to plan out and methodically counter another person. I don't mind at all and you're all blowing this way out of proportion.
Cool, and people watch MLG for that.
Variety in tournaments is a good thing.
So your argument is that variety is a good thing... but simultaneously that GSL should not show any variety in their format?
The cool thing about this is we get to see what we know are the VERY BEST PLAYERS(GSL code S), in a format that we don't normally get to see them in. We get the variety in format, with the familiarity and assurance that we'll be seeing the best gameplay mechanics and strategy possible.
On August 12 2012 12:55 Uncultured wrote: Is the "preparation" really the only reason people can point out as being bad? People watch and love MLG just fine. It takes a lot of skill to go through a gauntlet of games in a weekend. Possibly more skill than trying to plan out and methodically counter another person. I don't mind at all and you're all blowing this way out of proportion.
Cool, and people watch MLG for that.
Variety in tournaments is a good thing.
So your argument is that variety is a good thing... but simultaneously that GSL should not show any variety in their format?
The cool thing about this is we get to see what we know are the VERY BEST PLAYERS(GSL code S), in a format that we don't normally get to see them in. We get the variety in format, with the familiarity and assurance that we'll be seeing the best gameplay mechanics and strategy possible.
Anyone advocating variety should love this.
He means that it kills variety because weekend tourneys are plentyful already. So it's like killing a member of an endangered speices, preparation tourneys in this case.
Please don't strawman.
You get to see GSL-players in weekend-tourney format all the time. Who are you kidding?
If all else fails, I think they'd rather just run season 5 into 2013 (with the yearly tickets still being good) than cancel it
That's what I was thinking. But I guess nothing's gonna change this now. It'll be horrible, and I'll have to watch (the Code A dual stream-gate was horrid but I wouldn't say that it made an impact on me). Once any player making it to the Ro8 / World Champ. Showmatch / IPL has to forfeit there's gonna be a huge scandal anyhoo.
korea 5 can be any of the top 10 it will still seem valid since they are so close in skill, unfortunately i dont think drg is near top 10 atm..... but i had to choose itd be taeja,seed,MKP,MC,squirtle, but for a zerg maybe symbol?
they could just make the time between rounds shorter rather than make the ro8 onward in a foreign country over a single weekend. there are plenty of easy ways to make up time other than what they are doing.
I don't know why all you are bitching about worrying that the finals won't be good. how bout you crybabies chill the fuck out and wait to see what actually happens. I have watched every GSL final and MOST of them despite having the time to prepare have not been THAT entertaining. It could bring out certain aspects of the top Korean players that we usually do not get to see.
The big problem with IPL is that there are half hour breaks between every single match. I know it felt like the final day of IPL4 dragged on, it was exhausting just watching it.
Even MLG before they started to reduce their downtime a lot wasn't as bad.
On August 12 2012 17:45 Shinobi1982 wrote: I really hate to say this but I don't like the move GOM made here. Unless GOM is 100% doing their own thing in (Cosmopolitan was it?) I don't see this turning out good at all unfortunately. And even then this will never reach the production value of code S finals in Korea. I just don't see them pulling decent enough audience in Vegas to give the true feeling of eSports where the crowd is roaring and cheering.
Wish they would've partnered up with dreamhack for example. Code S finals in Dreamarena <3! OR.. Take Iron Squid event for example, smaller organisation, not the same budget as bigger organisations BUT kickass venue, decent production and you can count on the French to be ROARING in excitement.
Just my 2ct.
MMA's Blizzard Cup title has the same mark, and it is unfortunate that something so significant can be tarred(at least, in my eyes it is) by something so easily just not done. It also will not quite have that unique feeling that comes with Korean Starcraft. It just will not feel right. It did not feel quite right when they hosted the GSTL at IPL, and that was just the finals, compared to what they have said they'll do here.
I don't think MMA's Blizzard Cup's title was tarred at all at least not by anyone who speaks of it. If anything MMA beat the best of the best to become the year end's best player. Not to mention playing the BEST game of 2011 in that epic Game 7. GOM gave him a GSL pin and rightfully so.
On August 12 2012 17:45 Shinobi1982 wrote: I really hate to say this but I don't like the move GOM made here. Unless GOM is 100% doing their own thing in (Cosmopolitan was it?) I don't see this turning out good at all unfortunately. And even then this will never reach the production value of code S finals in Korea. I just don't see them pulling decent enough audience in Vegas to give the true feeling of eSports where the crowd is roaring and cheering.
Wish they would've partnered up with dreamhack for example. Code S finals in Dreamarena <3! OR.. Take Iron Squid event for example, smaller organisation, not the same budget as bigger organisations BUT kickass venue, decent production and you can count on the French to be ROARING in excitement.
Just my 2ct.
MMA's Blizzard Cup title has the same mark, and it is unfortunate that something so significant can be tarred(at least, in my eyes it is) by something so easily just not done. It also will not quite have that unique feeling that comes with Korean Starcraft. It just will not feel right. It did not feel quite right when they hosted the GSTL at IPL, and that was just the finals, compared to what they have said they'll do here.
I don't think MMA's Blizzard Cup's title was tarred at all at least not by anyone who speaks of it. If anything MMA beat the best of the best to become the year end's best player. Not to mention playing the BEST game of 2011 in that epic Game 7. GOM gave him a GSL pin and rightfully so.
Yeah. Notice the difference in name though, it was a special event. It wasn't the core GSL experience. This tampers with the core of what GSL is supposed to be. A preparation tournament, in the tradition of the BW starleagues. That's why people care so much. It takes away variety and is generally unfair to players who may or may not be playing IPL as well. Is it that hard to see why that is bad?
They'll still have a day to prepare for the matches. I think that this is mainly a challenge for the coaches. Plus putting this enormous pressure on the players may also result in some suspenseful matches.
Foreigners will probably include include Thorazain Naniwa and Stephano. If they go by gsl points then the koreans will be DRG, Seed, MVP, MC and Genius.
I love the idea of the foreigners vs koreans team showmatch. I think it will be fun.
As for having a highly compressed GSL... I dunno. Maybe it will squeeze highly compressed skill out of the players. Maybe not. It's going to be very different from what we're used to of GSL, and I'm sceptical, but it will be interesting to see how it turns out in the end. I'm more worried about the production value considering how utterly terrible the production of the IPL TAC finals was yesterday night. On the other hand, they have shown that they know better, and can do better, so hopefully they won't let us down. ^^
Didnt see it in OP and not the comments I browsed, but is it known if there will be any kind of free HQ stream? Or will we have to suffer through the GSL freestream quality? (Or pay up obv)
It shouldn't be called a 'GSL Code S' atleast if they're going to do this. Give it another name as saying someone won a 'GSL Code S' with this extremely different format is really strange as it's not following the same format as other seasons. Then the winner won't be criticized (or criticized as much atleast) for claiming they won a Code S season when this season is clearly different from the other seasons which the other champions have won.
Like how MMA has won a Code S season and Blizzard Cup. He's acknowledged as having won 2 GSLs but not as having won 2 Code S seasons.
On August 12 2012 19:46 TeveT wrote: Didnt see it in OP and not the comments I browsed, but is it known if there will be any kind of free HQ stream? Or will we have to suffer through the GSL freestream quality? (Or pay up obv)
Not a fan of this. Kinda ruins the point of code s, the preperation. Also it's going to be in the middle of the night for europeans. Tbh I don't think fans will consider this tournament a real GSL..
What a terrible idea.... first of all, 3 tournaments in such a short amount of time is just overkill, starting at the ro8 just turns the GSL into any other random tournament, no hype for finals whatsoever. Just the GSL finals by itself is fine, I can't understand the idea to have the ro8 as well.... fdfdifjiodhiohgwie
Definitely with the general population on this. While I love being able to see so many amazing players play at once (which will still be awesome), the GSL element of preparing for a player really is taken out of the equation. Most of the mind games that I love from great GSL games will be taken out unfortunately.
Still, should be some great games with all the talent being there.
They should atleast make it 1 week and not 2-3 days...3 tournies is alot and I can't see how anyone can prepare for their matches on such short notice.
Will Stephano attend one of those tournaments ? Code S with no preparation would be perfect for him ( even too perfect, code S invitation + format change benefits ), and does he still have a chance to qualify for IPL 5 ?
Naniwa and Stephano are a given for the foreigner team, perhaps Nerchio, SaSe, Thorzain for the other 3 spots. I am hoping that the production goes smoother than the event just gone, other than that I can't wait!
I agree, it’s a bad idea, as it defeats the all concept of the GSL format. What make this tournament so particular and so great, is having the best player prepare for a week to play their opponent. And when you have two top players doing so, it always creates great match, with generally innovative play, rather than a good all-around strategy that are going to be play over & over again.
In addition, like it has been said before, with other Code S player already participating in IPL this season, it would put them at the disadvantage. It is like MVP vs MMA all over again, where the first one had an all-day of competition, facing different opponent and race, before doing a best of 7 at the end of the day.
And yes, IPL TAC final production was way below the standard of what you are supposed to expect.
I don't like the idea at all. foreigner vs korea sounds good but thats about it. But it is just stupid to do GSL in 3 days and not let players have time to prepare its what makes GSL good. And also some of players might have to play both IPL 5 and GSL which will not show good results i believe.
What if someone takes both tournaments GSL and IPL5 that would be ridiculous :D
Having the ro8 and ro4 there as well basically stops it from being Code S, and turns it into MLG#2. I don't mind having the finals and the WC there, as long as the GOM production crew does all the production work.
It's different, but really you guys are overreacting way to hard here. Ro8-Final on 3 Days mean, Day1 Ro8-Day2 Ro4-Day3 Final. Yeah the preparation aspect is gone for the Ro4 and the final. Well, some players may prepare for Ro4 in hand, since you have only 2 options to face this is very well possible (and imagine you have a mirror match to determine your opponent), so the preparation aspect is not totally gone. It's a change in the format for ONE single season. No big deal. The quality of games will not suffer at all. The players in the Ro8 will be well prepared for their matches and the players that go through will have the skill to make the following games similar entertaining. Really no big deal and nothing to complain about!
I thought the WHOLE point of GSL compared to other tournaments is that players had a gazillion weeks to prepare for their next match-ups. And now they're going to play RO8 through the grand final the same day ? Game quality is going to suffer a bit from this.
I don't like this, I'm pretty sick of every weekend there being these massive tournaments where players play 20 games a day, I like the traditional preparation and hype of GSL, this will put a big dampener on it for me
IPL4 was great IMHO, we had Mr. Chae and the awesome GOM production staff on site. With the amount of high level players present it should be something special again.
Oh, and don´t forget the Lani stream. Beast Crew! And all that swag.
On August 12 2012 19:27 sAsImre wrote: won't watch it
... a bit of a childish response
like spreading bullshit on NSHS? I don't know what you want to do except announcing that it's clearly not worth it, as a ticket holder you're screwed anyway...
Not sure what to think about the GSL thing... I feel like ppl may be overreacting a bit with the "joke tournament" "this is not GSL" etc. and I'm sure it will be a treat to watch, but it's still kind of a weird decision. Why not just the finals, like for MMA/Mvp?
Although GSL 4 code S will be devalued by removing the preparation aspect, It makes sense they have to do this to fit in thier remaining GSL's + Blizzard Cup. What disturbs me more is how MLG+Kespa and IPL+Gom are getting into an arms race over who can deliver more korean content in one torunament so they are trying to stuff in too much in 1 weekend, eventually it'll just backfire too hard and e-sports as a whole will suffer, we need to all work together for the future of esports, particularly in korea where LoL is becoming more of an esport than SC2. Also, for WC, F: Naniwa, Thorzain, Ret, Stephano, SaSe
Please don't do this more often GSL, the best thing about the tournament is the time for preparation the players can put into it. Plus the huge buildup until the finals. Sure, it might sound epic, but we have enough weekend tournaments and GSL shouldn't be one of them.
I dont like this thing either......because IPLs production is horrible......they started off big pumped alot of money into sc2 produciton even though they had a massive internet problem at first event.....the last couple of events looked worse each time production wise.....seems like they dont really want to pump more cash into production....last event looked like a Wedding video from the 90s with sound issues.......and they didnt even had booths or lightning.....
BUT if gomtv takes over production completely....then im fine with it as long as they pick a venue with good Internet connection
On August 12 2012 22:02 provrorsbarn wrote: I dont like this thing either......because IPLs production is horrible......they started off big pumped alot of money into sc2 produciton even though they had a massive internet problem at first event.....the last couple of events looked worse each time production wise.....seems like they dont really want to pump more cash into production....last event looked like a Wedding video from the 90s with sound issues.......and they didnt even had booths or lightning.....
BUT if gomtv takes over production completely....then im fine with it as long as they pick a venue with good Internet connection
PL4 was actually really decent, production wise imo
On August 12 2012 12:55 Uncultured wrote: Is the "preparation" really the only reason people can point out as being bad? People watch and love MLG just fine. It takes a lot of skill to go through a gauntlet of games in a weekend. Possibly more skill than trying to plan out and methodically counter another person. I don't mind at all and you're all blowing this way out of proportion.
Cool, and people watch MLG for that.
Variety in tournaments is a good thing.
So your argument is that variety is a good thing... but simultaneously that GSL should not show any variety in their format?
The cool thing about this is we get to see what we know are the VERY BEST PLAYERS(GSL code S), in a format that we don't normally get to see them in. We get the variety in format, with the familiarity and assurance that we'll be seeing the best gameplay mechanics and strategy possible.
Anyone advocating variety should love this.
He means that it kills variety because weekend tourneys are plentyful already. So it's like killing a member of an endangered speices, preparation tourneys in this case.
Please don't strawman.
You get to see GSL-players in weekend-tourney format all the time. Who are you kidding?
Kills variety? This is a one time thing. Why are you acting like GSL format is going away entirely(talk about a straw man, lol)?
And sure you see one or two GSL player in weekend tourneys. But not the full list of them that have worked their way up through Code A. Not the ones who have made it through the gauntlet, just one or maybe two if we're lucky.
In this way we get to see how players who have done well in the GSL format test their mettle in something else.
Ro8 and ro4 is most likely compressed to avoid scheduling conflicts with Battlenet World Championship and IPL5 itself. There is just not enough time this november with all the most premier premier tourneys running their most premier events of this year in that month.
On August 12 2012 12:55 Uncultured wrote: Is the "preparation" really the only reason people can point out as being bad? People watch and love MLG just fine. It takes a lot of skill to go through a gauntlet of games in a weekend. Possibly more skill than trying to plan out and methodically counter another person. I don't mind at all and you're all blowing this way out of proportion.
Cool, and people watch MLG for that.
Variety in tournaments is a good thing.
So your argument is that variety is a good thing... but simultaneously that GSL should not show any variety in their format?
The cool thing about this is we get to see what we know are the VERY BEST PLAYERS(GSL code S), in a format that we don't normally get to see them in. We get the variety in format, with the familiarity and assurance that we'll be seeing the best gameplay mechanics and strategy possible.
Anyone advocating variety should love this.
He means that it kills variety because weekend tourneys are plentyful already. So it's like killing a member of an endangered speices, preparation tourneys in this case.
Please don't strawman.
You get to see GSL-players in weekend-tourney format all the time. Who are you kidding?
Kills variety? This is a one time thing. Why are you acting like GSL format is going away entirely(talk about a straw man, lol)?
And sure you see one or two GSL player in weekend tourneys. But not the full list of them that have worked their way up through Code A. Not the ones who have made it through the gauntlet, just one or maybe two if we're lucky.
In this way we get to see how players who have done well in the GSL format test their mettle in something else.
You guys are way over reacting.
It's a one time thing that crowns a false GSL champion.
Being a GSL champion is about being dissected strategically and still overcoming that to be the champion. There is none of that with this. It defeats the purpose of being GSL champion. You take away the preparation that makes GSL the premier SC2 tournament and you have false champions. Champions that suddenly got hot. Champions that were able to win because they used something on someone who wasn't prepared for them.
Again, GSL champions are prepared for, and those champions beat even who prepared for them to prove beyond a doubt that they are the best. Without prep, we have a false champion. Well at least in my eyes we do.
Disappointing news, Code S ro8 to finals and IPL5 is complete overkill, not to mention it undermining the whole point of the GSL compared to weekend tournaments like IPL. Foreigners vs Korea showmatch is an awesome idea, but not GSL. We had progamers complaining about MLG and WCS USA on at the same time was too many games, now we have this.
The ro8-finals-thing is really disappointing, the best scenario is, if someone, who already is GSL-Champion wins it, so people will not care so much, if it is legit, because he has already proven himself.
The return of the Korea -World showmatch is good, but I really hope they fly in extra foreigners, because if they use the foreign line-up, which is present at IPL5, things will end ugly. Nerchio is the only top-tier foreigner there (+ maybe major or Bly or Naniwa, if he gets top 8 in GSL). I would like it to be more players there though, bo9 is nice, but the bo15 last time was epic. Also a bigger showmatch could give GoOdy the possibility to qualify and beat someone, he is absolutely not supposed to. It will also be interesting to see, if kespa-players will be there, it would make the match a lot closer.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
LOL!
Well, let's hope you're not the one deciding. Those are two good players, but not in the top 5 of best foreigners.
MaNa, SaSe, and VortiX are clearly better choices.
Pretty sure Nerchio is better than all the player you named.
Why are you people even having a player-dick measuring contest between foreigners when it will probably be decided by a qualifier tournament like last time? Sheesh.
It kinda destroys what GSL is what is all about. I think even final game outside of korea would be bad because of jet lag. GSL always gave us well prepared players playing in best conditions and now we well have another MLG.
I really do hope that GOMTV would do something about that.
i feel if it were just finals it would better for the integrity of the league and also it is fair that the finals are held elsewhere hence both players both have jetlag so they can prepare for it beforehand also they should choose not to play in the open bracket, for the best quality performances.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
LOL!
Well, let's hope you're not the one deciding. Those are two good players, but not in the top 5 of best foreigners.
MaNa, SaSe, and VortiX are clearly better choices.
scarlett is actually a likely pick, shes another player from NA to spread them out more, and she has more of a name in korea than most.
There is no way scarlet is on par with top level Koreans. if they pick her to represent the best foreigner, it's an insult to people who are much better than here. She's good, but she aint that good yet
I like this. nothing should be stagnant. I love how GOM changes things up once in a while.
I'm really against this too.
There's a huge difference in just credibility between GSL and any foreigner tournament, and I think so much of that is the preparation aspect. Why can't it just be the finals?
You can look at it another way: a player has to do MORE preparation for this weekend than any other particular GSL day ever. I believe 3 matches out of any of 7 possible opponents can be prepared for. It'll be hard, but it will be fair. Anyway, this is fair enough advance notice so that players and teams can prepare themselves.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
LOL!
Well, let's hope you're not the one deciding. Those are two good players, but not in the top 5 of best foreigners.
MaNa, SaSe, and VortiX are clearly better choices.
Pretty sure Nerchio is better than all the player you named.
Why are you people even having a player-dick measuring contest between foreigners when it will probably be decided by a qualifier tournament like last time? Sheesh.
Dunno how Scarlett fares in a dick measuring contest, though xD
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
LOL!
Well, let's hope you're not the one deciding. Those are two good players, but not in the top 5 of best foreigners.
MaNa, SaSe, and VortiX are clearly better choices.
scarlett is actually a likely pick, shes another player from NA to spread them out more, and she has more of a name in korea than most.
There is no way scarlet is on par with top level Koreans. if they pick her to represent the best foreigner, it's an insult to people who are much better than here. She's good, but she aint that good yet
Name more then 2 Foreigners who ARE on par with top level Koreans.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
LOL!
Well, let's hope you're not the one deciding. Those are two good players, but not in the top 5 of best foreigners.
MaNa, SaSe, and VortiX are clearly better choices.
scarlett is actually a likely pick, shes another player from NA to spread them out more, and she has more of a name in korea than most.
There is no way scarlet is on par with top level Koreans. if they pick her to represent the best foreigner, it's an insult to people who are much better than here. She's good, but she aint that good yet
Name more then 2 Foreigners who ARE on par with top level Koreans.
Stephano, Naniwa, Nerchio. Maybe not on par with the top of the top, but as close as you can get.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
LOL!
Well, let's hope you're not the one deciding. Those are two good players, but not in the top 5 of best foreigners.
MaNa, SaSe, and VortiX are clearly better choices.
scarlett is actually a likely pick, shes another player from NA to spread them out more, and she has more of a name in korea than most.
There is no way scarlet is on par with top level Koreans. if they pick her to represent the best foreigner, it's an insult to people who are much better than here. She's good, but she aint that good yet
Name more then 2 Foreigners who ARE on par with top level Koreans.
Why only discuss the obvious player/prepare aspect of it?
As far as i know sc2 is still nowhere near as popular as bw used to be (or still is) in Korea.
And then they keep bringing the final of their biggest tournament to the US? What's the point? You pretty much screw over your steady fanbase by it, cause now they can't go and probably got problems watching it online as well due to different timezone.
On top of that you screw Europeans as well, cause they are mostlikely gonna do it in the middle of the night for Europeans as most tournament finals held in America.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
LOL!
Well, let's hope you're not the one deciding. Those are two good players, but not in the top 5 of best foreigners.
MaNa, SaSe, and VortiX are clearly better choices.
scarlett is actually a likely pick, shes another player from NA to spread them out more, and she has more of a name in korea than most.
There is no way scarlet is on par with top level Koreans. if they pick her to represent the best foreigner, it's an insult to people who are much better than here. She's good, but she aint that good yet
Name more then 2 Foreigners who ARE on par with top level Koreans.
My 5v5. A bit differant than others. Idk why you guys keep putting players like MVP and Nestea in. They are not worthy in their current form.
Foreigners: Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain for sure. The last two are up for grabs. Nerchio/Kas/Vortix/Scarlett/Mana could all be good choices. But i would also like Illusion/Macsen for a couple of dark horses. Really, apart from the 3 listed, we dont have any 'good' foreigners left with the results needed to be in the group.
Korea: Taeja, MKP, Seed, MC. The 5th is hard, really want a zerg DRG/Curious would be my picks. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Tournament: Im perfectly fine with hosting Ro8-Finals, doing each round on a seperate day. Yes its less preparation, but the KR coaches are pretty fucking good. I remember when STC was in mlg and couldn't beat (stephano??) the player he was pl aying. TheWind called him up and told him how to win. Shit like that is awesome. 1 gauntlet style tournament wont kill us.
IPL wont be the production team, last time GOM was in charge of production. So that should be as high as normal for GOM standards.
I think the general consensus is the possible 5 players would be a combination of: Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Sase, Mana and Nerchio. I think a more important question is, if all these players can/willing to make it.
As for ro8 -> finals I just hope IPL don't have too many hardware failures (especially the last 2 team leagues they've had). Always good to have Korean tournaments in these locations, much better crowds compared to the korean crowds!
On August 12 2012 23:26 TAMinator wrote: I think the general consensus is the possible 5 players would be a combination of: Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Sase, Mana and Nerchio. I think a more important question is, if all these players can/willing to make it.
As for ro8 -> finals I just hope IPL don't have too many hardware failures (especially the last 2 team leagues they've had). Always good to have Korean tournaments in these locations, much better crowds compared to the korean crowds!
Btw. I think Socke gets to less attention, regarding a possible foreigner lineup, I could see him as the fifth guy with Nani, Stephano, Nerchio and ThorZaiN, because he is more solid and less snipable than MaNa/Sase (vZ).
Disappointing if true. Changes the format up. Could cost us some good Ro8, Ro4 games. But then again, it might make the Finals interesting since they tend to be one person outplanning the other really bad and winning 4-0, 4-1.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
LOL!
Well, let's hope you're not the one deciding. Those are two good players, but not in the top 5 of best foreigners.
MaNa, SaSe, and VortiX are clearly better choices.
scarlett is actually a likely pick, shes another player from NA to spread them out more, and she has more of a name in korea than most.
There is no way scarlet is on par with top level Koreans. if they pick her to represent the best foreigner, it's an insult to people who are much better than here. She's good, but she aint that good yet
Name more then 2 Foreigners who ARE on par with top level Koreans.
The people saying that a day is plenty of time to practice don't seem understand what it is that makes GSL unique, it's the same reason tournaments like OSL and MSL have always had such good games, and that is that the players spend several days preparing for each MAP in the series, they prepare a special unique build for each game in the series after having spent hours analysing vods of the opponents play to try and determine their weaknesses and this leads to games which are both unique and of the highest possible level. This is why the GSL is the best tournament, because every game played in it is a test not only of mechanics and game sense but also of a players ability to plan a BoX, to prepare specific strategies, to innovate and analyse.
If you are seriously telling me that this level of competition can be maintained while jet-lagged, playing in two tournaments and with less then a days preparation (which takes place in a much worse practice environment then a team house) then I wish you all the best in life, but i don't see how gom can possible see this as a good idea. Gom has based it's entire buisiness model off the fact that it is the only premier korean sc2 league, and therefore they can afford to have no vods despite broadcasting at shitty hours, and to have the free stream be 240p (with supply counts unreadable.) But with the OSL about to start they are suddenly going to have competition, so the only thing going for it right now is that it has the best games of any tournament in the world. If this ends up happening then GSL is basically relegated to just another weekend tournament, and i don't see how the "GSL champion" title will anywhere near the same weight compared to the title of "OSL" champion... Don't do this to yourself gom >.<
This is huge, and pretty awesome. I know people aren't really going to be happy with the sudden lack of preparation for this GSL, but variety once in a while isn't bad.
Smart by IPL, now people are sure to come to IPL 5. I just hope that IPL can deliver IPL 3 level production.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
LOL!
Well, let's hope you're not the one deciding. Those are two good players, but not in the top 5 of best foreigners.
MaNa, SaSe, and VortiX are clearly better choices.
scarlett is actually a likely pick, shes another player from NA to spread them out more, and she has more of a name in korea than most.
There is no way scarlet is on par with top level Koreans. if they pick her to represent the best foreigner, it's an insult to people who are much better than here. She's good, but she aint that good yet
Name more then 2 Foreigners who ARE on par with top level Koreans.
There are more than 2 players who will have a much better chance than her. Stephano and Naniwa are given, on the next tier is Nerchio and we also need a terran and Tzain is the best we've got (possibly Kas, but not really). For the 5th spot there are at least 5 contenders to look at before her.
On August 12 2012 23:37 killerdog wrote: The people saying that a day is plenty of time to practice don't seem understand what it is that makes GSL unique, it's the same reason tournaments like OSL and MSL have always had such good games, and that is that the players spend several days preparing for each MAP in the series, they prepare a special unique build for each game in the series after having spent hours analysing vods of the opponents play to try and determine their weaknesses and this leads to games which are both unique and of the highest possible level. This is why the GSL is the best tournament, because every game played in it is a test not only of mechanics and game sense but also of a players ability to plan a BoX, to prepare specific strategies, to innovate and analyse.
If you are seriously telling me that this level of competition can be maintained while jet-lagged, playing in two tournaments and with less then a days preparation (which takes place in a much worse practice environment then a team house) then I wish you all the best in life, but i don't see how gom can possible see this as a good idea. Gom has based it's entire buisiness model off the fact that it is the only premier korean sc2 league, and therefore they can afford to have no vods despite broadcasting at shitty hours, and to have the free stream be 240p (with supply counts unreadable.) But with the OSL about to start they are suddenly going to have competition, so the only thing going for it right now is that it has the best games of any tournament in the world. If this ends up happening then GSL is basically relegated to just another weekend tournament, and i don't see how the "GSL champion" title will anywhere near the same weight compared to the title of "OSL" champion... Don't do this to yourself gom >.<
no one is disagreeing with all you guys who feel like posting the same exact thing over and over in a big wall of text
just some of us dont mind a small change and a gauntlet style tournament. Yes, not having the preparation sucks. But its not the fucking end of the world. The finals will be better than most gsl finals, GSL is notorious for having bad finals. And that is partly due to the 'preparation' time you guys all seem to love. Kinda funny actually. Bad Finals=Constant Bitching for a few days, when the reasons the finals are bad are the reasons you love the tournament.
On August 12 2012 23:37 killerdog wrote: The people saying that a day is plenty of time to practice don't seem understand what it is that makes GSL unique, it's the same reason tournaments like OSL and MSL have always had such good games, and that is that the players spend several days preparing for each MAP in the series, they prepare a special unique build for each game in the series after having spent hours analysing vods of the opponents play to try and determine their weaknesses and this leads to games which are both unique and of the highest possible level. This is why the GSL is the best tournament, because every game played in it is a test not only of mechanics and game sense but also of a players ability to plan a BoX, to prepare specific strategies, to innovate and analyse.
If you are seriously telling me that this level of competition can be maintained while jet-lagged, playing in two tournaments and with less then a days preparation (which takes place in a much worse practice environment then a team house) then I wish you all the best in life, but i don't see how gom can possible see this as a good idea. Gom has based it's entire buisiness model off the fact that it is the only premier korean sc2 league, and therefore they can afford to have no vods despite broadcasting at shitty hours, and to have the free stream be 240p (with supply counts unreadable.) But with the OSL about to start they are suddenly going to have competition, so the only thing going for it right now is that it has the best games of any tournament in the world. If this ends up happening then GSL is basically relegated to just another weekend tournament, and i don't see how the "GSL champion" title will anywhere near the same weight compared to the title of "OSL" champion... Don't do this to yourself gom >.<
no one is disagreeing with all you guys who feel like posting the same exact thing over and over in a big wall of text
just some of us dont mind a small change and a gauntlet style tournament. Yes, not having the preparation sucks. But its not the fucking end of the world. The finals will be better than most gsl finals, GSL is notorious for having bad finals. And that is partly due to the 'preparation' time you guys all seem to love. Kinda funny actually. Bad Finals=Constant Bitching for a few days, when the reasons the finals are bad are the reasons you love the tournament.
Anyone who thinks the GSL finals are underwhelming is an idiot. The GSL is where all of the metagame changes come from. Don't expect many if every game is played right after the next.
stop with scarlett in team Foreigner many player better vortix lucifron kas mana nerchio sase >>>>scarlett stephano thorzain naniwa 100% best ok but scarlett hahaha trolling
On August 12 2012 23:37 killerdog wrote: The people saying that a day is plenty of time to practice don't seem understand what it is that makes GSL unique, it's the same reason tournaments like OSL and MSL have always had such good games, and that is that the players spend several days preparing for each MAP in the series, they prepare a special unique build for each game in the series after having spent hours analysing vods of the opponents play to try and determine their weaknesses and this leads to games which are both unique and of the highest possible level. This is why the GSL is the best tournament, because every game played in it is a test not only of mechanics and game sense but also of a players ability to plan a BoX, to prepare specific strategies, to innovate and analyse.
If you are seriously telling me that this level of competition can be maintained while jet-lagged, playing in two tournaments and with less then a days preparation (which takes place in a much worse practice environment then a team house) then I wish you all the best in life, but i don't see how gom can possible see this as a good idea. Gom has based it's entire buisiness model off the fact that it is the only premier korean sc2 league, and therefore they can afford to have no vods despite broadcasting at shitty hours, and to have the free stream be 240p (with supply counts unreadable.) But with the OSL about to start they are suddenly going to have competition, so the only thing going for it right now is that it has the best games of any tournament in the world. If this ends up happening then GSL is basically relegated to just another weekend tournament, and i don't see how the "GSL champion" title will anywhere near the same weight compared to the title of "OSL" champion... Don't do this to yourself gom >.<
no one is disagreeing with all you guys who feel like posting the same exact thing over and over in a big wall of text
just some of us dont mind a small change and a gauntlet style tournament. Yes, not having the preparation sucks. But its not the fucking end of the world. The finals will be better than most gsl finals, GSL is notorious for having bad finals. And that is partly due to the 'preparation' time you guys all seem to love. Kinda funny actually. Bad Finals=Constant Bitching for a few days, when the reasons the finals are bad are the reasons you love the tournament.
Anyone who thinks the GSL finals are underwhelming is an idiot. The GSL is where all of the metagame changes come from. Don't expect many if every game is played right after the next.
Lol. There are have been 3 good finals in GSL in 2 years. 4-1 roflstomps are common. And no, the metagame changes come from KR, but not just the finals. And sometimes not even then (stephano changing zvp for instance). Im not disagreeing with you. Just stating what appears to be facts. Yes some people may think a 4-1 stomp is a good final. But id rather a 4-3 with back and forth action. Its both awesome and sad to see a player completely dismantle his opponent due to preparation. A gauntlet style tourney wont ruin esports. you'll live
edit: and i never said they were underwhelming. But just because the finals aren't underwhelming doesn't mean they are good. Weve only recently had good GSL finals. We went through 1.5 years of shitty rofl stomps
On August 12 2012 23:25 ohampatu wrote: My 5v5. A bit differant than others. Idk why you guys keep putting players like MVP and Nestea in. They are not worthy in their current form.
Foreigners: Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain for sure. The last two are up for grabs. Nerchio/Kas/Vortix/Scarlett/Mana could all be good choices. But i would also like Illusion/Macsen for a couple of dark horses. Really, apart from the 3 listed, we dont have any 'good' foreigners left with the results needed to be in the group.
Korea: Taeja, MKP, Seed, MC. The 5th is hard, really want a zerg DRG/Curious would be my picks. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Tournament: Im perfectly fine with hosting Ro8-Finals, doing each round on a seperate day. Yes its less preparation, but the KR coaches are pretty fucking good. I remember when STC was in mlg and couldn't beat (stephano??) the player he was pl aying. TheWind called him up and told him how to win. Shit like that is awesome. 1 gauntlet style tournament wont kill us.
IPL wont be the production team, last time GOM was in charge of production. So that should be as high as normal for GOM standards.
All-in All. Im pretty excited
As for the 5v5, since it is kind of a "showmatch", GSL and IPL might just choose the big name players such as MVP, Nestea, MC, MKP, MMA, DRG, etc, over players who have looked strong recently but don't have such large fan followings. Of course, that's just theorizing by me.
On August 13 2012 00:08 Zer atai wrote: How about let's compromise, have the Ro4 and the finals, not the quarterfinals.
I agree that it would be better that way. Ro4 on first day, then 2 days to prepare for the final. Im not saying it couldn't be altered to be a better schedule. I just think the whole 'i hate gsl now because your ruining the preparation' argument is funny.
Ideally I think you have it though.
First Day-Ro4. Then they get the whole next day and half of another day to prepare/play in the other tourney/rest. And if it does start at Ro4. Then the player could prepare for multiple matches before heading to IPL. Which would degrade the preparation, but at least there would be preparation. I think alot of people understimate Koreans and preparing though. There have been numerous weekend tournies where koreans have had full sets prepared for prospective opponents. Tricky all-ins etc. The KR teams help eachother, and if GOM gives the people a bad schedule, the team will make up for it. They always do, cause they are boss.
So yes, i understand everybodys issues, i just think its not the end of the world like others
As for the 5v5, since it is kind of a "showmatch", GSL and IPL might just choose the big name players such as MVP, Nestea, MC, MKP, MMA, DRG, etc, over players who have looked strong recently but don't have such large fan followings. Of course, that's just theorizing by me.
True they may. I realize GOM is a business so they will go for maximum revenue. I just think some of our newer GSL champions and upcoming players aren't getting the attention they deserve. They still feel like they are 'in the shadows' when in all realistic combinations, MVP and Nestea will prolly never again be who they were. We can't keep choosing the old gods over the new ones. It undermimes the up and coming players achievments. All depends on how GOM approaches it. Do they go for current max skill, or do they go for max revenue?
On August 12 2012 23:37 killerdog wrote: The people saying that a day is plenty of time to practice don't seem understand what it is that makes GSL unique, it's the same reason tournaments like OSL and MSL have always had such good games, and that is that the players spend several days preparing for each MAP in the series, they prepare a special unique build for each game in the series after having spent hours analysing vods of the opponents play to try and determine their weaknesses and this leads to games which are both unique and of the highest possible level. This is why the GSL is the best tournament, because every game played in it is a test not only of mechanics and game sense but also of a players ability to plan a BoX, to prepare specific strategies, to innovate and analyse.
If you are seriously telling me that this level of competition can be maintained while jet-lagged, playing in two tournaments and with less then a days preparation (which takes place in a much worse practice environment then a team house) then I wish you all the best in life, but i don't see how gom can possible see this as a good idea. Gom has based it's entire buisiness model off the fact that it is the only premier korean sc2 league, and therefore they can afford to have no vods despite broadcasting at shitty hours, and to have the free stream be 240p (with supply counts unreadable.) But with the OSL about to start they are suddenly going to have competition, so the only thing going for it right now is that it has the best games of any tournament in the world. If this ends up happening then GSL is basically relegated to just another weekend tournament, and i don't see how the "GSL champion" title will anywhere near the same weight compared to the title of "OSL" champion... Don't do this to yourself gom >.<
no one is disagreeing with all you guys who feel like posting the same exact thing over and over in a big wall of text
just some of us dont mind a small change and a gauntlet style tournament. Yes, not having the preparation sucks. But its not the fucking end of the world. The finals will be better than most gsl finals, GSL is notorious for having bad finals. And that is partly due to the 'preparation' time you guys all seem to love. Kinda funny actually. Bad Finals=Constant Bitching for a few days, when the reasons the finals are bad are the reasons you love the tournament.
Anyone who thinks the GSL finals are underwhelming is an idiot. The GSL is where all of the metagame changes come from. Don't expect many if every game is played right after the next.
Lol. There are have been 3 good finals in GSL in 2 years. 4-1 roflstomps are common. And no, the metagame changes come from KR, but not just the finals. And sometimes not even then (stephano changing zvp for instance). Im not disagreeing with you. Just stating what appears to be facts. Yes some people may think a 4-1 stomp is a good final. But id rather a 4-3 with back and forth action. Its both awesome and sad to see a player completely dismantle his opponent due to preparation. A gauntlet style tourney wont ruin esports. you'll live
edit: and i never said they were underwhelming. But just because the finals aren't underwhelming doesn't mean they are good. Weve only recently had good GSL finals. We went through 1.5 years of shitty rofl stomps
A 4-1 stomp can be very illuminating and interesting. See Taeja's games.
And yeah, gauntlet toruanemnts don't ruin esports...but we already have gauntlet tournaments. In fact, every tournament other than the GSL is a gauntlet tournament. People don't realize that the prep. time is what makes the GSL so prestigious. Every modicum of effort and strategy and skill is marshaled to take down one specific person. It embodies everything about warfare and strategy. It's awesome. Half the MLGs/NASLs/etc have relatively underdogs getting really far just by winning a lucky series with a gimmicky playstyle that the other player had no time to study. It cheapens the experience insofar as I don't feel that the strategic base of the game is advancing much. It's definitely exciting, yeah, but we already have that with MLG/NASL/DH/etcetc.
On August 12 2012 23:25 ohampatu wrote: My 5v5. A bit differant than others. Idk why you guys keep putting players like MVP and Nestea in. They are not worthy in their current form.
Foreigners: Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain for sure. The last two are up for grabs. Nerchio/Kas/Vortix/Scarlett/Mana could all be good choices. But i would also like Illusion/Macsen for a couple of dark horses. Really, apart from the 3 listed, we dont have any 'good' foreigners left with the results needed to be in the group.
Korea: Taeja, MKP, Seed, MC. The 5th is hard, really want a zerg DRG/Curious would be my picks. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Tournament: Im perfectly fine with hosting Ro8-Finals, doing each round on a seperate day. Yes its less preparation, but the KR coaches are pretty fucking good. I remember when STC was in mlg and couldn't beat (stephano??) the player he was pl aying. TheWind called him up and told him how to win. Shit like that is awesome. 1 gauntlet style tournament wont kill us.
IPL wont be the production team, last time GOM was in charge of production. So that should be as high as normal for GOM standards.
All-in All. Im pretty excited
As for the 5v5, since it is kind of a "showmatch", GSL and IPL might just choose the big name players such as MVP, Nestea, MC, MKP, MMA, DRG, etc, over players who have looked strong recently but don't have such large fan followings. Of course, that's just theorizing by me.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
LOL!
Well, let's hope you're not the one deciding. Those are two good players, but not in the top 5 of best foreigners.
MaNa, SaSe, and VortiX are clearly better choices.
scarlett is actually a likely pick, shes another player from NA to spread them out more, and she has more of a name in korea than most.
There is no way scarlet is on par with top level Koreans. if they pick her to represent the best foreigner, it's an insult to people who are much better than here. She's good, but she aint that good yet
Name more then 2 Foreigners who ARE on par with top level Koreans.
As for the 5v5, since it is kind of a "showmatch", GSL and IPL might just choose the big name players such as MVP, Nestea, MC, MKP, MMA, DRG, etc, over players who have looked strong recently but don't have such large fan followings. Of course, that's just theorizing by me.
True they may. I realize GOM is a business so they will go for maximum revenue. I just think some of our newer GSL champions and upcoming players aren't getting the attention they deserve. They still feel like they are 'in the shadows' when in all realistic combinations, MVP and Nestea will prolly never again be who they were. We can't keep choosing the old gods over the new ones. It undermimes the up and coming players achievments. All depends on how GOM approaches it. Do they go for current max skill, or do they go for max revenue?
One of the problems with the up and coming players is that it is hard to know which players are going to be good long-term, and which players are going to be "flash in the pan players".
For example, players like TOP, aLive, Losira, Jjakji were all at one point making incredible GSL runs and major tournament runs, and were all at one point considered top players. But all 4 of them have all had their "peaks" (Losira getting 2nd at GSL and MLG, TOP making Ro4 Super Tournament and 2nd in GSL, aLive making Ro4 GSL and winning IPL 4, Jjakji winning GSL November), but they were never able to really keep their dominant form for a long time.
What separates them from players like MVP, Nestea, MC, MMA, is consistency: The ability to win repeatedly and stand the test of time. MVP, Nestea, and MC were all strong players from the early days of SC2, and are still strong players to this day. MC has made it to the GSL finals in 2010, 2011, and 2012. Out of the listed players above, MMA is probably the least consistent in the long-run, but even he has made it to the GSL finals 3 times in 2011, and has been winning premier tournaments as recent as May 2012, more than a year after he first led Slayers to a GSTL title.
I think GSL and IPL will probably go for max revenue with the old guard. Bigger names = more viewership and interest, and plus the foreigners will likely have a better chance to put up a good fight, which would lead to more interest. (I spoilered the above because it is basically just a long rambling).
Personally I'm not too attached to the idea of GSL being all about preparation time. It's irrefutable that the majority of GSL finals have been, shall we say, not very close. Clearly GSL does not have a method of producing entertaining and close finals. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people complaining about this decision by GOM also complained in the GSL final LR threads about how shitty the games were lol. MC and Seed had a week to prepare and the result was a bunch of PvP build order wins. They didn't come up with anything interesting, they just kind of flipped the SC2 coin. I'd say the quality of a tournament's finals are due to luck more than anything else, so I'll be watching these finals and looking forward to great games.
ipl4 was plagued by scheduling delays constantly throughout the tournament (culminating with the final finals taking place at midnight on Sunday). thankfully, there's a 40 player cap to the ipl5 tournament, which means there should be only 7-8 rounds of play (since it's double elimination) so hopefully they'll be able to stick to the schedule a lot better (less lengthy commercials and breaks in between every single game). the highlight for ipl4 was the gstl and how smoothly the production went (also the only day in the tournament where they actually ended on time)
I think its awesome they have done similar things before and i thought it was awesome then too, it's just one GSL so its not like the whole no prep thing is really affecting the integrity of the tournament as a whole this one GSL will just have a tiny * in the corner saying GSL at IPL5. People are so adverse to change even if its just temporary, I personally think its good to shake up the system a bit from time to time.
Im a DRG fanboy, but I can honestly say that unless you are going off of life time achievements, that NesTea is not on the team ahead of DRG in any way shape or form. And if we are going off of life time achievements TaeJa is off the team.
On August 12 2012 09:08 Fionn wrote: It's three weeks of GSL. Ro8 takes two days and then a week break for semifinals. Then the semifinals occur and the finalists get a week and a half to practice for the final.
It makes sense when you realize we only have four months left in the year and GOM still needs to do GSL4/5 an Blizzard Cup.
maybe you should put in the op that its 3 weeks.. would clear up a lot of confusion. I thought they would do Ro 8 -> finals on one weekend
On August 12 2012 09:08 Fionn wrote: It's three weeks of GSL. Ro8 takes two days and then a week break for semifinals. Then the semifinals occur and the finalists get a week and a half to practice for the final.
It makes sense when you realize we only have four months left in the year and GOM still needs to do GSL4/5 an Blizzard Cup.
maybe you should put in the op that its 3 weeks.. would clear up a lot of confusion. I thought they would do Ro 8 -> finals on one weekend
Your not reading it correctly. Fionn is saying that its Ro8-Finals in one weekend for this IPL5/GSL finals. Normally that would take 3 or 3.5 weeks. Fionn is posting how much time is being 'saved' doing it this way, and showing the reason why.
Unless they change it then it is only on the weekend. Thats what alot of the uproar/discussion is about. No confusion, except on your part
The first negative thing I've seen out of a GOM partnership so far (save the Naniwa seeding incident). This upcoming GSL is going to carry less weight to me than all the others, I'm dissapointed in this decision by all parties involved.
I have to imagine (hope) that this takes place over more days than an average tournament at least. Something like ro8 on Wednesday/Thursday, ro4 on Friday, Final on Sunday would at least give the competitors two days to prepare for each round. Either way, I'm not sure I like such a change in the tournament because even if there are a few days between each round, the players will be out of their normal environments for all of their preparations, making the preparations sub-optimal. I'll wait until the complete announcement to pass any more judgement though. Maybe it could turn out alright.
IPL probably doesn't give a shit about SC2 anymore and just wants to cash in while they still can. They can see a much larger return on investment if they focus heavily on LoL.
you guys are so incredibly overestimating how different it will be. I cant stand how entitled starcraft fans are. constantly complaining about everything
On August 13 2012 02:24 markrevival wrote: you guys are so incredibly overestimating how different it will be. I cant stand how entitled starcraft fans are. constantly complaining about everything
there is always the vocal minority. Doesn't matter if there is a post that says 'click this link to get 5 bucks' and its actually legit. There will still be a small minority that is louder than the majority. Its the way the cookie crumbles.
Taeja, Seed, DRG, MC and MKP are what I'd expect to see for the Korean line-up. Naniwa, Stephano, Nerchio, Thorzain and Mana forms the most obvious foreigner line-up
Why all the hate? I'm sorry, were the GSL finals known for there nerve biting and exciting games? This is just awesome to have the GSL in the US. You all are acting like old hens "we don't like change, and get off my grass!". Stop acting like a Negative Nancy, and be fucken stoked for how awesome this will be.
I for one can not wait to go. Going to Vegas is going to be sweet! I'm going to keep a watch out so I can get a ticket before they sell out to get in to that open tournament, and just getting to see the GSL finals live is going to be Awesome!
On August 13 2012 02:24 markrevival wrote: you guys are so incredibly overestimating how different it will be. I cant stand how entitled starcraft fans are. constantly complaining about everything
there is always the vocal minority. Doesn't matter if there is a post that says 'click this link to get 5 bucks' and its actually legit. There will still be a small minority that is louder than the majority. Its the way the cookie crumbles.
Yeah, cause clearly those are the same thing.
Maybe some of us actually like the GSL because it's, I don't know, the most highskilled and competitive tournament in the world? Maybe some of us realize that the preparation time is a large part of what makes it interesting and drives the metagame forward? Maybe some of us don't need 300 gauntlet style tournaments a month?
On August 13 2012 02:24 markrevival wrote: you guys are so incredibly overestimating how different it will be. I cant stand how entitled starcraft fans are. constantly complaining about everything
there is always the vocal minority. Doesn't matter if there is a post that says 'click this link to get 5 bucks' and its actually legit. There will still be a small minority that is louder than the majority. Its the way the cookie crumbles.
there is always somebody who pulls the vocal minority crap whenever a seemingly large amount of people do not share his opinion.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I'm pretty sure it's been said in the past 30 pages, but maybe this is a HUGE positive instead of a negative.
Maybe IPL has decided to have their open brackets one weekend, their pools the next weekend, and championships on a third weekend to make it a huge three week event of awesomeness. With the Ro8 the first weekend, the Ro4 with Pool play the 2nd and the Finals with the championship weekend.
Now, THAT would enable them to still have a week between each GSL match AND go at a pace that we can see both Open Bracket and Championship matches AND enable a hype train to build for any surprise players that get through open bracket.
Even if it was a 2 weekend tournament with Ro8/Ro4 one weekend and finals another or Ro8 one weekend and Ro4/finals the other with open bracket/ earlier GSL matches one weekend and championships the other that would be a pretty cool change for IPL and not THAT bad for GSL, particularly if it's Ro4 and Finals same weekend, as one would have to prepare for their match and the potential winner of the other match, making where you spend your practice time an interesting part of strategy. We would debate whether Nestea in the semis, versing Squirtle with the other bracket being say MKP vs Taeja, how much he should focus on the Squirtle match-up, and how much time he should spend preparing for his potential Terran foe in the finals. Time Management then becomes another big thing, and it would be interesting to see afterwards if he wins if he thought MKP/Taeja had the better chance of winning and thus he prepared more for that particular player.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
EPIC FAIL I think. This basically cheapens the prestige of this gsl. The point is that you need to prepare for your opponent with proper builds and such. They only reason I'm forgiving them on this is because they still need to do GSL S5 and BLizzard cup and WCS has taken a whole month away from them. I expect an underwhelming final.
I don't think it's that big of a deal as a one time thing. This GSL season will still be the best of the best and it's hard to argue that any of the RO8 simply wont have a chance in hell to win the finals so a good player will win regardless. The prestige is there, people are way overreacting. Besides, we've also got an OSL taking place roughly the same time so it's not like there's going to be any distinct lack of "preparation" tournaments. It's just one time guys, out of the ~15 "preparation" GSL seasons we've had so far. Imho, deal with it.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
I remember hearing people talking about the oversaturation of tournaments and how that's a bad thing, this is why. Having 2-3 tourneys going at the same time is a TERRIBLE idea. If they had the GSL WC and then just IPL5, that would be great, but having the Code S finals there too? Bad idea.
I just have no idea how anyone can think this is good for the GSL. It's one thing if you think it's needed to save time, or something, but it's certainly going to result in a lower level of competition.
i don't know about this. kinda messes up the uniqueness of the GSL what with the preparation times and what not. it also means there will be like 3 sc2 tournaments at IPL5, and we have seen with all the WCS running parallel to another tournament etc that that doesn't seem like such a great idea.
on the other hand, it's gonna put top Code S competition into a different scenario which could be interesting, and it arguably gives some of my favorite players a better chance to win than they would have in regular GSL format (marineking, taeja,..)
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
I wonder who the 5 foreign hopes will be. If I had to pick them I would choose (based on recent results and what I've seen on streams and tournaments):
Nerchio, Stephano, Thorzain, Sortof and Nightend/Mana
I know I'll get a lot of shit for not having Naniwa in my line-up. Truth to be told he has not played very well recently tho, and if we are to choose players on old merits, we might as well have Jinro, Idra or Huk in the line-up.
Nightend on the other hand may not have won any tournaments, but his group stage results have been phenomenal. For instance 6-1 in map with Puma, Sase and Brat_OK, or 6-7 in r2 with Taeja, Mana and DeMuslim.
I think they will pick Naniwa because of what he has done in the past. He's beaten great star koreans. That can however be said for a lot of players. Naniwa does, tho, draw attention to a tournament and has a huge fan-base. I would therefore be suprised if he was excluded from the official line-up.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Mana got 3-0 because he played bad that day, not because he is a bad player in general. If you watch his normal gameplay and that series, you see that there is quite a huige difference. I could be wrong about major, but the last time I heard of him, he got 2-0ed by Minigun in the first round of an NA-qualifier (IEM) and he has no good results at major tournaments at all, so I would prefer any of the guys I named earlier. But it is needless to discuss here, the spots will be given away to qualifiers anyway, I assume.
The foreign team should be Stephano, Naniwa, Thorzain, and Ret for sure. Nerchio, Socke, Mana and others can compete for the 5th spot. Why am I hearing Major though? I haven't heard anything from him in the past year.
I'm going to watch the GSL games either way, generally from vods. I will also probably watch IPL 5. Having GSL during IPL 5 just means that those hours will be time when I'm watching GSL instead of IPL 5, and there will be less total IPL for me to watch. (It's going to be impossible to avoid spoilers, so I won't wait for vods - I'll watch the GSL live.) It also means less well-prepared for GSL games, and players (if they're competing) not using their best strategies for their IPL games.
The world vs. Korea thing sounds fun, but in general this seems like it's really great if you're there in person, but not good at all for people watching the tournaments online.
On August 13 2012 03:30 Havik_ wrote: The foreign team should be Stephano, Naniwa, Thorzain, and Ret for sure. Nerchio, Socke, Mana and others can compete for the 5th spot. Why am I hearing Major though? I haven't heard anything from him in the past year.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
On August 13 2012 03:30 Havik_ wrote: The foreign team should be Stephano, Naniwa, Thorzain, and Ret for sure. Nerchio, Socke, Mana and others can compete for the 5th spot. Why am I hearing Major though? I haven't heard anything from him in the past year.
not watching tsl4?
Winning one match hardly qualifies you to a world team.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Major Easily better? I don't know about that.
His results lately that are nice are the TSL qualifier victory and where he won 3-2 against Fraer, (Fraer still advanced to the TSL 4 main tournament on points where Kas won against him 3-0) and winning his round one match against Hyun 3-2. He also won WCS Mexico against Maker, (I'm sorry that I've never heard of JimRising, Zapo, CLOUD, and Dark, good luck to you guys at WCS NA though).
I'd argue that recently, Nerchio's performances have been demonstratably better with HS victory that has been mentioned and a more difficult WCS run in Poland against Mana and Tefel.
SortOf is possibly THE fastest rising player in the SC2 international scene. At WCS Sweden he took sets from Cytoplasm, a ZvZ beast who is on a 7-0 run against Stephano now IIRC. Then he ran through Bischu, Sase, Naniwa, Seiplo, and took a set against thorzain before finally being defeated. He beat Naniwa and Bischu again at NarCon 201. He beat Fuzer and Hero in Asus RoG group play round 1, Kas and Titan in round 2 before losing to Moon in brackets.
Mana successes at Dreamhack 2012 need no further mention ATM, and he did reasonable against Nerchio in Polish finals after taking out DieStar.
So Major EASILY better? Results have me thinking otherwise, though his skills may be improving to the point we can say that at some point soon. Right now though, no.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Major Easily better? I don't know about that.
His results lately that are nice are the TSL qualifier victory and where he won 3-2 against Fraer, (Fraer still advanced to the TSL 4 main tournament on points where Kas won against him 3-0) and winning his round one match against Hyun 3-2. He also won WCS Mexico against Maker, (I'm sorry that I've never heard of JimRising, Zapo, CLOUD, and Dark, good luck to you guys at WCS NA though).
I'd argue that recently, Nerchio's performances have been demonstratably better with HS victory that has been mentioned and a more difficult WCS run in Poland against Mana and Tefel.
SortOf is possibly THE fastest rising player in the SC2 international scene. At WCS Sweden he took sets from Cytoplasm, a ZvZ beast who is on a 7-0 run against Stephano now IIRC. Then he ran through Bischu, Sase, Naniwa, Seiplo, and took a set against thorzain before finally being defeated. He beat Naniwa and Bischu again at NarCon 201. He beat Fuzer and Hero in Asus RoG group play round 1, Kas and Titan in round 2 before losing to Moon in brackets.
Mana successes at Dreamhack 2012 need no further mention ATM, and he did reasonable against Nerchio in Polish finals after taking out DieStar.
So Major EASILY better? Results have me thinking otherwise, though his skills may be improving to the point we can say that at some point soon. Right now though, no.
I'll grant you that SortOf is good. As a player, I think he's more talented than Mana/Nerchio.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
Even if you're confident that you are right, it's still your opinion, it also took me time to accept that
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
Even if you're confident that you are right, it's still your opinion, it also took me time to accept that
Again, I don't really think skill is a matter of opinion, but that's for another thread.
On August 13 2012 03:30 Havik_ wrote: The foreign team should be Stephano, Naniwa, Thorzain, and Ret for sure. Nerchio, Socke, Mana and others can compete for the 5th spot. Why am I hearing Major though? I haven't heard anything from him in the past year.
not watching tsl4?
Winning one match hardly qualifies you to a world team.
not saying it does, but saying you haven't heard anything from him in the past year right when he crushes a TSL 4 qualifier and then beats Hyun in a comeback from 0-2 is silly.
On August 13 2012 02:46 michielbrands wrote: [quote] how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
Even if you're confident that you are right, it's still your opinion, it also took me time to accept that
Again, I don't really think skill is a matter of opinion, but that's for another thread.
skill isn't a matter of opinion. perceived skill is a matter of opinion.
On August 13 2012 02:46 michielbrands wrote: [quote] how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
Even if you're confident that you are right, it's still your opinion, it also took me time to accept that
Again, I don't really think skill is a matter of opinion, but that's for another thread.
No, but how do you measure skill than? Most obvious thing would be results, but than major surely would´nt be that high rated.
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
Even if you're confident that you are right, it's still your opinion, it also took me time to accept that
Again, I don't really think skill is a matter of opinion, but that's for another thread.
skill isn't a matter of opinion. perceived skill is a matter of opinion.
Sure, but it's pretty easy to filter out perception and bias. For example, I don't actually like Major. I'm totally indifferent to him. He's bm and has a weird personality. But he's very, very good, and anyone should be able to see that. Mana and Nerchio are also good, but I don't believe their playstyle is very solid. Maybe it would be good in a 5v5 scenario, but I don't think it could ever have staying power in, say, the GSL.
And I'd say the first measure of skill would be to watch games, look at mechanics, and look at depth of play. Results can be linked to results, but there have been a lot of really good players that are forever Kongs, and a lot of really bad players who coinflipped a win in Starcraft Bw/2 history. I mean, BitbyBit even managed to make headway in the GSL.
Mechanics are more a skale of potential, than actual skill IMHO. Take for example GoOdy. His mechanics are, as we all know, not that great, but he still has wins over MMA, Stephano, Nestea as well as about 60 cup-wins under his belt and is one out of two foreigners, who were able to qualify for the next MLG. Merz in comparism has about 4-5 times the apm of GoOdy, does less often get supply-blocked and so on. Would you call Merz better than GoOdy? I surely would not.
On August 13 2012 04:30 Xoronius wrote: Mechanics are more a skale of potential, than actual skill IMHO. Take for example GoOdy. His mechanics are, as we all know, not that great, but he still has wins over MMA, Stephano, Nestea as well as about 60 cup-wins under his belt and is one out of two foreigners, who were able to qualify for the next MLG. Merz in comparism has about 4-5 times the apm of GoOdy, does less often get supply-blocked and so on. Would you call Merz better than GoOdy? I surely would not.
I would say both of them are horrible (compared to other pro gamers) for different reasons. Their faults are different, but they're both so huge that they cancel each other out.
A skilled player is really easy to point out. The best types of players are those who excel at everything. You can compensate for a bad skillset in one area with a superb skillset in another, but that still won't make you the best of all time. So yeah, that's why I think Major is a better all-around player. He's stabler, he has creativity, he has good mechanics, he played in Korea, and he doesn't usually rely on gimmicks to win. I've seen him win standard games against really good Koreans on a fairly regular basis. To me, that screams "skilled player" more than anything else. Mana and Nerchio are also good players, don't get me wrong, but I don't think they're at that level of stability yet. They still have an unrefined style that has cost them games from very simple things from time to time.
I also think that both of them play a very "weird" style which is responsible for a lot of victories against confused opponents.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
Even if you're confident that you are right, it's still your opinion, it also took me time to accept that
Again, I don't really think skill is a matter of opinion, but that's for another thread.
skill isn't a matter of opinion. perceived skill is a matter of opinion.
Sure, but it's pretty easy to filter out perception and bias. For example, I don't actually like Major. I'm totally indifferent to him. He's bm and has a weird personality. But he's very, very good, and anyone should be able to see that. Mana and Nerchio are also good, but I don't believe their playstyle is very solid. Maybe it would be good in a 5v5 scenario, but I don't think it could ever have staying power in, say, the GSL.
And I'd say the first measure of skill would be to watch games, look at mechanics, and look at depth of play. Results can be linked to results, but there have been a lot of really good players that are forever Kongs, and a lot of really bad players who coinflipped a win in Starcraft Bw/2 history. I mean, BitbyBit even managed to make headway in the GSL.
yes, back in the early days of sc2 where no one knew how to play. Thats not the case now. Don't get me wrong, Major is a very good player, one of the best foreign Terrans for sure. But to say he is better than Nerchio or Mana is a little much. Nerchio absolutely wrecked through HSC V. Thats more than anything Major has ever done. Mana dominated DreamHack Summer, also more than what Major has done. Mana also gave Taeja the closest series we've seen since MC vs Taeja in the GSL a month ago.
Part of being a top player is getting those results. You can be a practice monster, but it means nothing when you don't win. Right now, Major hasn't won. Nerchio and Mana have. Thats a huge step that Major needs to take still.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
let me guess: u are american? maybe your love for Major is a NA thing?
On August 13 2012 03:13 Shiori wrote: [quote] Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
Even if you're confident that you are right, it's still your opinion, it also took me time to accept that
Again, I don't really think skill is a matter of opinion, but that's for another thread.
skill isn't a matter of opinion. perceived skill is a matter of opinion.
Sure, but it's pretty easy to filter out perception and bias. For example, I don't actually like Major. I'm totally indifferent to him. He's bm and has a weird personality. But he's very, very good, and anyone should be able to see that. Mana and Nerchio are also good, but I don't believe their playstyle is very solid. Maybe it would be good in a 5v5 scenario, but I don't think it could ever have staying power in, say, the GSL.
And I'd say the first measure of skill would be to watch games, look at mechanics, and look at depth of play. Results can be linked to results, but there have been a lot of really good players that are forever Kongs, and a lot of really bad players who coinflipped a win in Starcraft Bw/2 history. I mean, BitbyBit even managed to make headway in the GSL.
yes, back in the early days of sc2 where no one knew how to play. Thats not the case now. Don't get me wrong, Major is a very good player, one of the best foreign Terrans for sure. But to say he is better than Nerchio or Mana is a little much. Nerchio absolutely wrecked through HSC V. Thats more than anything Major has ever done. Mana dominated DreamHack Summer, also more than what Major has done. Mana also gave Taeja the closest series we've seen since MC vs Taeja in the GSL a month ago.
Part of being a top player is getting those results. You can be a practice monster, but it means nothing when you don't win. Right now, Major hasn't won. Nerchio and Mana have. Thats a huge step that Major needs to take still.
Of course, results matter. But I'm a bit old fashioned in that regard. I look at players and look for guys who have what it takes to get to the very top. That's why I thought Taeja was going to be huge even before he won ESV. It's why I still think Creator is going to start winning things sooner or later. It's why I feel that Byun's run at the GSL wasn't just a one-time thing. With Mana and Nerchio...I don't know. I look at their play and I see a very ladder-influenced style. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes they win spectacularly easily, but other times they get utterly crushed.
I've always favoured players who win on the strength of sheer mechanics and solid play. To me, Major is the foreigner (aside from Stephano and non-PvZ Naniwa) that has that. I think Mana is close to obtaining this level of stylistic reliability. Nerchio, though, I honestly feel relies too much on blind countering his opponent (which won him games against MC) to be reliable in a long macro game.
On August 12 2012 09:00 starception wrote: Foreigner team:
Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain, Scarlett, and Nerchio
Korean team:
Top 5 GSL
how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
let me guess: u are american? maybe your love for Major is a NA thing?
I am Canadian, and I don't actually cheer for any foreign players. Koreans only.
On August 13 2012 02:46 michielbrands wrote: [quote] how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
let me guess: u are american? maybe your love for Major is a NA thing?
I am Canadian, and I don't actually cheer for any foreign players. Koreans only.
I'm a Canadian, and I do actually cheer for foreign players. Koreans too. Look at me and how my opinion is so valid! ^^ lol Teasing teasing, I saw you responded to "let me guess, u are american" which is kind of a funny generalization.
Anywho I can't wait for IPL5, I might even attend.
The moment I heard this announcement I immediately thought that this was a strange move by GOMtv. I mean they have a solid format that has proven to be most competitive and high level SC2 tournament out there. I don't see the potential benefit to GOM in this partnership other than the 2 leagues working together to produce an event. If I were them I would not have made this move.
Other than that, the event should be entertaining. Congrats to IPL for getting this deal to go.
On August 13 2012 02:46 michielbrands wrote: [quote] how can you make a foreigner team without Ret? He is after Stephano, NaNiwa & Thorzain the best foreigner, and of all foreigners he is the most consistent, wether there are koreans involved or not, Ret plays top10 almost every tournament
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
let me guess: u are american? maybe your love for Major is a NA thing?
I am Canadian, and I don't actually cheer for any foreign players. Koreans only.
so it is a Korean thing, cause he lives in Korea, case solved
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
let me guess: u are american? maybe your love for Major is a NA thing?
I am Canadian, and I don't actually cheer for any foreign players. Koreans only.
so it is a Korean thing, cause he lives in Korea, case solved
Huh? Not really. There are lots of foreigners who have lived in Korea and not become that much better. However, I'd say all the best best foreigners have spent some time over there. I believe it was Naniwa who said that you need to play there if you want to be at the top.
Ok so WC comes back but is in a boring format that says nothing and ro8 forward will lose it's value, doesn't sound like a good deal, especially since I guess the subs for the two will be the same :/
as of now that would be: naniwa, sase, thorzain, stephano, ret vs taeja, seed, mc, byun, drg
remember: they will balance out races slightly, if you have 2 players of prolly the same skill they will chose whatever race they need more; its a showmatch afterall and nobody wants to watch 3 pvp's in a row
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
Even if you're confident that you are right, it's still your opinion, it also took me time to accept that
Again, I don't really think skill is a matter of opinion, but that's for another thread.
skill isn't a matter of opinion. perceived skill is a matter of opinion.
Sure, but it's pretty easy to filter out perception and bias. For example, I don't actually like Major. I'm totally indifferent to him. He's bm and has a weird personality. But he's very, very good, and anyone should be able to see that. Mana and Nerchio are also good, but I don't believe their playstyle is very solid. Maybe it would be good in a 5v5 scenario, but I don't think it could ever have staying power in, say, the GSL.
And I'd say the first measure of skill would be to watch games, look at mechanics, and look at depth of play. Results can be linked to results, but there have been a lot of really good players that are forever Kongs, and a lot of really bad players who coinflipped a win in Starcraft Bw/2 history. I mean, BitbyBit even managed to make headway in the GSL.
yes, back in the early days of sc2 where no one knew how to play. Thats not the case now. Don't get me wrong, Major is a very good player, one of the best foreign Terrans for sure. But to say he is better than Nerchio or Mana is a little much. Nerchio absolutely wrecked through HSC V. Thats more than anything Major has ever done. Mana dominated DreamHack Summer, also more than what Major has done. Mana also gave Taeja the closest series we've seen since MC vs Taeja in the GSL a month ago.
Part of being a top player is getting those results. You can be a practice monster, but it means nothing when you don't win. Right now, Major hasn't won. Nerchio and Mana have. Thats a huge step that Major needs to take still.
Of course, results matter. But I'm a bit old fashioned in that regard. I look at players and look for guys who have what it takes to get to the very top. That's why I thought Taeja was going to be huge even before he won ESV. It's why I still think Creator is going to start winning things sooner or later. It's why I feel that Byun's run at the GSL wasn't just a one-time thing. With Mana and Nerchio...I don't know. I look at their play and I see a very ladder-influenced style. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes they win spectacularly easily, but other times they get utterly crushed.
I've always favoured players who win on the strength of sheer mechanics and solid play. To me, Major is the foreigner (aside from Stephano and non-PvZ Naniwa) that has that. I think Mana is close to obtaining this level of stylistic reliability. Nerchio, though, I honestly feel relies too much on blind countering his opponent (which won him games against MC) to be reliable in a long macro game.
OK, I think I got your argument and I understand your standpoint. I just rate mechanical play not that high, what makes me rate players like major or ret not that high (might have also smth. to do with infestor headbutts in Rets case). I just don´t see Major outsmart guys, who are mechanically on or above his level, which is smth. I see in Nerchio, MaNa, Hasu or GoOdy. I think Major can mechanically brute force his way through players who can´t match him in this regard (Which includes most foreigners), but if someone on his level plays a style, he might not know, or a style, which is prepared to match him, his chances decrease immensly. And in a korea vs. world world-showmatch I doubt, that he would get opponents, who are mechanically worse then him.
I think the discussion about MajOr is interesting because I would be pretty comfortable betting money that he would out-perform every foreign terran but Thorzain in at least 2 out of 3 tournaments. The problem is he never attends any tournaments because he, until now, had no sponsor and no team for the last several months. Since this tournament is still some time away, we will get to see how MajOr does at WCS Americas and then WCS world(if he qualifies) and then we can have a better say. But for now, my 5 foreigners would be:
1. Stephano(Z) France 2. NaNiwa(P) Sweden 3. Thorzain(T) Sweden 4. VortiX(Z) Spain 5. MajOr(T) Mexico
as far as Ret - I would have voted ret ahead of VortiX as a second zerg until the last few months wear VortiX has been on tear and Ret has been pretty bad. everyone was cringing at his matches yesterday vs IM in SF
I think Ret is better than Scarlett. Probably should have Major up there in place of Nerchio though, Nerchio is good but I don't think he's top 5. Major is a prick but he's good.
Nerchio is better than both, Ret and Major. He recently won HSC, beating MC and destroying Yonghwa. Major is ofc. an option, but guys like Vortix, SortOf, MaNa or Socke should be considered as well.
Major is easily better than any of the other players in your post, including Nerchio.
Like I said, Nerchio won HSC, beating a top korean. What has major done, to be considered on par with him? Or MaNa, who recently won a DH?
It doesn't matter. If you watch their play, it's obvious who the better player is. Major wasn't even at HSC. Nerchio's games against MC were pretty bizarre and nonstandard, in addition. It's hard to say he has Stephano level ZvP on the basis of those games. Mana got 3-0d no contest out of TSL by a decent but unexceptional Korean Terran...
Major is consistent and plays a solid style that seems to be competitive against top Koreans.
Or you can just say that in your opinion Major is better than Nerchio, because it may be true ( even if I don't think so ) but it really isn't " obvious " as you said, and that is a fact.
No, it really is obvious. I feel like a lot of the Nerchio/Mana/Vortix love is a Euro thing, so I can't relate. I honestly don't find any of them particularly amazing. Major is the only one I've seen play and develop a solid style born out of living in Korea (aside from Naniwa, Stephano, Sase etc).
Even if you're confident that you are right, it's still your opinion, it also took me time to accept that
Again, I don't really think skill is a matter of opinion, but that's for another thread.
skill isn't a matter of opinion. perceived skill is a matter of opinion.
I was going to write that, then I told to myself this discussion is nonsense, but still happy that you spoke my mind ( with the same exact words) !
Why would anyone put Sase or Major in the top 5? What have they done compared to Nerchio, Stephano, Mana, Thorzain (all won a major tournament recently) or Naniwa (top 8 in the last 2 GSLs)?
But knowing IPL, Quantic Illusion will be one of them for sure, LOL
On August 13 2012 05:41 Champloo wrote: Why would anyone put Sase or Major in the top 5? What have they done compared to Nerchio, Stephano, Mana, Thorzain (all won a major tournament recently) or Naniwa (top 8 in the last 2 GSLs)?
But knowing IPL, Quantic Illusion will be one of them for sure, LOL
Have you seem Major play? He's been in Korea and not attending foreign tournaments, so he couldn't have accomplished anything. But there are also tons of Koreans that don't travel either, are you going to say they're nothing notable either? The reason SaSe and Major aren't accomplishing as much is because they aren't traveling as much (notably Major).
On August 13 2012 05:41 Champloo wrote: Why would anyone put Sase or Major in the top 5? What have they done compared to Nerchio, Stephano, Mana, Thorzain (all won a major tournament recently) or Naniwa (top 8 in the last 2 GSLs)?
But knowing IPL, Quantic Illusion will be one of them for sure, LOL
Have you seem Major play? He's been in Korea and not attending foreign tournaments, so he couldn't have accomplished anything. But there are also tons of Koreans that don't travel either, are you going to say they're nothing notable either? The reason SaSe and Major aren't accomplishing as much is because they aren't traveling as much (notably Major).
On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote: 1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase
I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra.
Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well
I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now.
Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best.
On August 13 2012 05:41 Champloo wrote: Why would anyone put Sase or Major in the top 5? What have they done compared to Nerchio, Stephano, Mana, Thorzain (all won a major tournament recently) or Naniwa (top 8 in the last 2 GSLs)?
But knowing IPL, Quantic Illusion will be one of them for sure, LOL
Have you seem Major play? He's been in Korea and not attending foreign tournaments, so he couldn't have accomplished anything. But there are also tons of Koreans that don't travel either, are you going to say they're nothing notable either? The reason SaSe and Major aren't accomplishing as much is because they aren't traveling as much (notably Major).
I'd probably put Major over Mana.
for all Major's korean time he hasn't done anything, he seems to just be living off his korean training hype atm
On August 13 2012 05:41 Champloo wrote: Why would anyone put Sase or Major in the top 5? What have they done compared to Nerchio, Stephano, Mana, Thorzain (all won a major tournament recently) or Naniwa (top 8 in the last 2 GSLs)?
But knowing IPL, Quantic Illusion will be one of them for sure, LOL
Have you seem Major play? He's been in Korea and not attending foreign tournaments, so he couldn't have accomplished anything. But there are also tons of Koreans that don't travel either, are you going to say they're nothing notable either? The reason SaSe and Major aren't accomplishing as much is because they aren't traveling as much (notably Major).
I'd probably put Major over Mana.
I've seen Major a lot lately and he's definetly top 3 foreign terran atm, but for a tournament like this you really shouldn't pick him over people who won a major tournament within the last 3 months. There's just no evidence that he's better than these 5 (Mana, Nerchio, Stephano, Thorzain, Naniwa).
And Sase travels A LOT to tournaments. He just isn't good enough.
On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote: 1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase
I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra.
Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well
I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now.
Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best.
I think if you could find a way to distill the Idra that shows up on his best days, bottle it, and inject him with it every time he plays, then he would 100% be a candidate for this tournament. It's weird. Sometimes he plays SO WELL but other times he just sort of rolls over and dies. And yeah, ZvP.
I'm sure he'll come back eventually though. He works hard and is talented.
On August 13 2012 05:41 Champloo wrote: Why would anyone put Sase or Major in the top 5? What have they done compared to Nerchio, Stephano, Mana, Thorzain (all won a major tournament recently) or Naniwa (top 8 in the last 2 GSLs)?
But knowing IPL, Quantic Illusion will be one of them for sure, LOL
Have you seem Major play? He's been in Korea and not attending foreign tournaments, so he couldn't have accomplished anything. But there are also tons of Koreans that don't travel either, are you going to say they're nothing notable either? The reason SaSe and Major aren't accomplishing as much is because they aren't traveling as much (notably Major).
I'd probably put Major over Mana.
I've seen Major a lot lately and he's definetly top 3 foreign terran atm, but for a tournament like this you really shouldn't pick him over people who won a major tournament within the last 3 months. There's just no evidence that he's better than these 5 (Mana, Nerchio, Stephano, Thorzain, Naniwa).
And Sase travels A LOT to tournaments. He just isn't good enough.
Hmm... maybe SaSe does travel to more tournaments than I thought in retrospect (especially seeing the last few posts saying so, I'm prob wrong^^), but in terms of skill who's a better Terran than Thorzain maybe?
Although I can agree with your argument that if you're going to have a tournament like this maybe you should pick people rather who have had a major tournament win, and thus I could understand Mana over Major.
On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote: 1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase
I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra.
Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well
I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now.
Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best.
why would you have someone on a team whose big game "experience" has proven time and time again that he'll leave games before they are lost or even games that he has basically won, his mindset is god awful for a team
On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote: 1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase
I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra.
Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well
I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now.
Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best.
Sure, he's a top gamer, but you'd put him in the top 8 of all foreigners? I think that's definitely stretching it.
To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there.
On August 13 2012 05:41 Champloo wrote: Why would anyone put Sase or Major in the top 5? What have they done compared to Nerchio, Stephano, Mana, Thorzain (all won a major tournament recently) or Naniwa (top 8 in the last 2 GSLs)?
But knowing IPL, Quantic Illusion will be one of them for sure, LOL
Have you seem Major play? He's been in Korea and not attending foreign tournaments, so he couldn't have accomplished anything. But there are also tons of Koreans that don't travel either, are you going to say they're nothing notable either? The reason SaSe and Major aren't accomplishing as much is because they aren't traveling as much (notably Major).
I'd probably put Major over Mana.
I've seen Major a lot lately and he's definetly top 3 foreign terran atm, but for a tournament like this you really shouldn't pick him over people who won a major tournament within the last 3 months. There's just no evidence that he's better than these 5 (Mana, Nerchio, Stephano, Thorzain, Naniwa).
And Sase travels A LOT to tournaments. He just isn't good enough.
Hmm... maybe SaSe does travel to more tournaments than I thought in retrospect (especially seeing the last few posts saying so, I'm prob wrong^^), but in terms of skill who's a better Terran than Thorzain maybe?
Although I can agree with your argument that if you're going to have a tournament like this maybe you should pick people rather who have had a major tournament win, and thus I could understand Mana over Major.
Foreigner Terrans are generally worse than foreigner Zergs and Protosses so why would you want to put more than one of them in a five man lineup anyway? Pick Thorzain if you want to, but then leave it at that.
On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote: To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there.
Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted).
On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote: 1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase
I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra.
Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well
I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now.
Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best.
Let's be honest, if Idra is going to be in the foreigner team the whole showmatch would lose its credibility. Nobody would take it serious then.
On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote: To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there.
Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted).
The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one.
On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote: To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there.
Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted).
The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one.
Major didn't play IEM NA qualifiers. You might be mistaking this for NASL Season 4 Qualifier 1 where he "lost" to Minigun, but I think I read that he no-showed, he didn't really lose.
On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote: 1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase
I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra.
Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well
I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now.
Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best.
I think his recent results are nowhere near good enough to be considered for top 5 foreigner. Having more experience in big matches doesn't count when you don't win them. He has 56% ZvT according to http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/600_IdrA and if that is "one of the best" then we might as well give up now.
You can call it "idra hating" all you want, I still don't think that he is objectively even up for consideration here if we are compiling a team of the 5 strongest foreigners.
On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote: To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there.
Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted).
The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one.
Major didn't play IEM NA qualifiers. You might be mistaking this for NASL Season 4 Qualifier 1 where he "lost" to Minigun, but I think I read that he no-showed, he didn't really lose.
Major got eliminated by Minigun (2-0) in stage 1 of the NA IEM qualifer.
On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote: To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there.
Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted).
The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one.
Major didn't play IEM NA qualifiers. You might be mistaking this for NASL Season 4 Qualifier 1 where he "lost" to Minigun, but I think I read that he no-showed, he didn't really lose.
Major got eliminated by Minigun (2-0) in stage 1 of the NA IEM qualifer.
Oh god, I'm stupid. I even looked it up and failed to see the relevant things. -.-
On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote: To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there.
Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted).
The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one.
Major didn't play IEM NA qualifiers. You might be mistaking this for NASL Season 4 Qualifier 1 where he "lost" to Minigun, but I think I read that he no-showed, he didn't really lose.
Major got eliminated by Minigun (2-0) in stage 1 of the NA IEM qualifer.
When did people start hyping Major? And why? (putting him over Nerchio, Mana...)
On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote: To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there.
Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted).
The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one.
Major didn't play IEM NA qualifiers. You might be mistaking this for NASL Season 4 Qualifier 1 where he "lost" to Minigun, but I think I read that he no-showed, he didn't really lose.
Major got eliminated by Minigun (2-0) in stage 1 of the NA IEM qualifer.
When did people start hyping Major? And why? (putting him over Nerchio, Mana...)
On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote: To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there.
Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted).
The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one.
Major didn't play IEM NA qualifiers. You might be mistaking this for NASL Season 4 Qualifier 1 where he "lost" to Minigun, but I think I read that he no-showed, he didn't really lose.
Major got eliminated by Minigun (2-0) in stage 1 of the NA IEM qualifer.
When did people start hyping Major? And why? (putting him over Nerchio, Mana...)
Because he's really, really good.
Can you link me a vod of a particularly impressive performance by him? I was never amazed by his playstyle, but I didn't see much of him...
On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote: 1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase
I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra.
Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well
I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now.
Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best.
I think if you could find a way to distill the Idra that shows up on his best days, bottle it, and inject him with it every time he plays, then he would 100% be a candidate for this tournament. It's weird. Sometimes he plays SO WELL but other times he just sort of rolls over and dies. And yeah, ZvP.
I'm sure he'll come back eventually though. He works hard and is talented.
About Idra, I'm pretty sure he has a bit recovered but has major troubles with his infestors control. I think the problem is that he puts them in the same control group as his whole army + in a second so he makes them attack then has to pull them back every time.
Also he's to greedy and overestimates his game knowledge imo so I wouldn't even say he's better than Scarlett ( speaking about hidden skill )
About Major I have to admit he's the only koreanslayer in TSL 4, and could be the next big thing ;
but even if I dont really believe in Mana anymore ( great but not amazing ) I don't have the same perception of Nerchio, for me his blind counter are proofs of his game knowledge and aren't always gambling, and his "I-don't-do-like-stephano" style is for me his weakness but manages to work thanks to his amazing mechanics ( earned on european ladder and the cheese feasts that are the online tournaments )
So for me Nerchio is better, Major beat Hyun, it could mean that he is at that high level of play,but Nerchio beating many more almost as good / as good / better korean players. But that's only my opinion, and not a fact because I didn't watched every one of their respective games.
I also think Naniwa is a few steps above both of them, with great well-prepared builds and neat execution, and Stephano...
For me Stephano was our last hope, he was meant to bring balance to the force, lead the foreigners to equality with koreans, lead the resistance in the war against machines, avoid judgment day, remove Marion cotillard from TDKR, become the first foreigner GSL code S winner but he won't come to IPL 5 and won't attend this gsl...
On August 13 2012 05:56 Xoronius wrote: To the guys, who are saying, major would outperform all other foreign terrans, if he would be at tournaments or he could´nt achieve anything, because he does not attend tournaments: He did try to qualify for MLG Spring Arena, but lost to SeleCT and Rain and he tried to qualify for IEM, but lost to Minigun. So it is not the case, that he would´nt try to go there.
Disadvantage of cross server play? (Not sure where the games were hosted).
The IEM NA qualifier should have been at a time, where Major was in Mexico for WCS. Don´t know about the MLG one.
Major didn't play IEM NA qualifiers. You might be mistaking this for NASL Season 4 Qualifier 1 where he "lost" to Minigun, but I think I read that he no-showed, he didn't really lose.
Major got eliminated by Minigun (2-0) in stage 1 of the NA IEM qualifer.
When did people start hyping Major? And why? (putting him over Nerchio, Mana...)
Because he's really, really good.
Can you link me a vod of a particularly impressive performance by him? I was never amazed by his playstyle, but I didn't see much of him...
Just watch his stream. He's also one of the very few foreigners to manage to get GM on the Korean server.
On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote: 1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase
I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra.
Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well
I agree with your list - maybe sub in Ret for Major if Major doesn't make ro8 in TSL, but why the fuck is idra notable
Koreans:
1. TaeJa 2. Seed 3. MC 4. Squirtle 5. MVP
GSL winners/runners up and the hottest player in the scene
3 protoss and 2 Terran? not going to happen Its more than likely they balance the races. They may even do it off GSL rank. Why would you put the two runner ups in over the first season champion too?
1. TaeJa 2. MVP 3. DRG/NesTea/Leenock, you might even put rorO up there lol but I guess not since he's a KeSPA player 4. MC 5. MMA (even tho he's been off the radar for a while now)/SeeD/..
Honestly, you could make at least 2 teams for korea and still be scratching your head 'bout which player to put on there as.. well we all know Koreans are just sick ballers and there are many of them. I do wonder tho, does anyone know what happened to Brown? He's completely off the grid or I'm just blind. SlayerS.Brown that is.
As for foreigners..:
1. Ret (if he's in the mood/in the right mindset) 2. NaNiWa (I honestly don't like him whatsoever but I do acknowledge him as a player in general and honestly he IS one of the best foreigners) 3. Stephano 4. Thorzain 5. SaSe (I just like him in general even tho he plays P + imo he deserves to be on the list regardless of his achievements)
There are other foreigners such as MajOr, IdrA, Huk, DIMAGA, SortOf,.. But still, the list is significantly smaller than the korean one.
On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote: 1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase
I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra.
Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well
I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now.
Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best.
I think his recent results are nowhere near good enough to be considered for top 5 foreigner. Having more experience in big matches doesn't count when you don't win them. He has 56% ZvT according to http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/600_IdrA and if that is "one of the best" then we might as well give up now.
You can call it "idra hating" all you want, I still don't think that he is objectively even up for consideration here if we are compiling a team of the 5 strongest foreigners.
Actually 56% when facing the people he does is really good lol
You have either very little exposure to the actual stats of these players or you have unreal expectations.
On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote: 1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase
I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra.
Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well
I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now.
Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best.
I think his recent results are nowhere near good enough to be considered for top 5 foreigner. Having more experience in big matches doesn't count when you don't win them. He has 56% ZvT according to http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/600_IdrA and if that is "one of the best" then we might as well give up now.
You can call it "idra hating" all you want, I still don't think that he is objectively even up for consideration here if we are compiling a team of the 5 strongest foreigners.
Actually 56% when facing the people he does is really good lol
You have either very little exposure to the actual stats of these players or you have unreal expectations.
On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote: 1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase
I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra.
Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well
I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now.
Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best.
I think his recent results are nowhere near good enough to be considered for top 5 foreigner. Having more experience in big matches doesn't count when you don't win them. He has 56% ZvT according to http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/600_IdrA and if that is "one of the best" then we might as well give up now.
You can call it "idra hating" all you want, I still don't think that he is objectively even up for consideration here if we are compiling a team of the 5 strongest foreigners.
Actually 56% when facing the people he does is really good lol
You have either very little exposure to the actual stats of these players or you have unreal expectations.
His best result in ZvT is losing to TaeJa 1-3 and beating MKP on cross server play. His victories besides that are against Cloud and STX (who?). His losses are to:
not really. it is prestigious because it happens to be based where all the good players are and was there before other tournaments.
The OSL was there before GSL and has as much if not more raw talent.
Making this move at litterally the exact same time that OSL moves into SC2 seems like the worst idea ever.
You seem to be aware that the OSL was a BW tournament, so what do you even mean? I'm confused.
Yes, the OSL is older. The MSL and even MLG is older than GSL. I mean, the friggin olympic games existed before the GSL. But none of them had Starcraft 2 at a prestigeous level before the GSL.
(and OSL maybe being at a higher level than SC2? lol)
On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote: 1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase
I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra.
Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well
I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now.
Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best.
I think his recent results are nowhere near good enough to be considered for top 5 foreigner. Having more experience in big matches doesn't count when you don't win them. He has 56% ZvT according to http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/600_IdrA and if that is "one of the best" then we might as well give up now.
You can call it "idra hating" all you want, I still don't think that he is objectively even up for consideration here if we are compiling a team of the 5 strongest foreigners.
Actually 56% when facing the people he does is really good lol
You have either very little exposure to the actual stats of these players or you have unreal expectations.
His best result in ZvT is losing to TaeJa 1-3 and beating MKP on cross server play. His victories besides that are against Cloud and STX (who?). His losses are to:
Thorzain Dream Select STX (who?)
Not that impressive.
STX is a pretty good/top NA Terran if you've never heard of him. But that's about it.
I think this is an awful idea. The whole reason that the GSL is the most prestigious tournament in the world is the preparation aspect. By holding the last three rounds in one weekend, you lose that. I believe that this knocks the GSL back a few notches as far as prestige goes.
I'm sure this has been said lots already, but I didn't want to read through the whole thread.
I can't believe that anyone is arguing if Nerchio is better or worse than fucking major... I can't believe it for the life of me, what a load of absolute shit, MAJOR? Ohh his streams really cool, good thing he does well on it, but he blows at every event he ever goes to... MINIGUN KNOCKED HIM OUT 2-0, jesus christ.
/endrant
I apologize, but the people arguing this must have either A) No ability to compare relative skill levels or B) are so bad at the game they can't tell the difference between Taeja and Avilo so they just throw random names in random orders.
i mean im not going to lie, i will absolutely love this weekend of sc2 but, this seems to take so much hype from code s. i would prefer the other style of code S, but i can live with it. Also i hope ipl does not make the ipl5 final the main event and make the gsl final the last game
On August 12 2012 11:54 FXOBoSs wrote: Congratulations IPL... Your desperation, and GOM's apparently, has just made the RO8 onwards completely random. Perhaps Bitbybit can win code S this season...
Hmm. So Leenock got lucky at MLG Providence? I see.
I was thinking about this and I believe that with GSL finals and WC there that IPL5 will just become a side show and nobody will really care about it. Would you guys agree? or disagree?
I hate this. I totally dislike the whirlwind that are weekend tournaments. In my opinion the hype that builds with time between matches is the best part of GSL format.
On August 13 2012 06:36 SEGGLE[8] wrote: For the koreans I'd put something like
1. TaeJa 2. MVP 3. DRG/NesTea/Leenock, you might even put rorO up there lol but I guess not since he's a KeSPA player 4. MC 5. MMA (even tho he's been off the radar for a while now)/SeeD/..
Honestly, you could make at least 2 teams for korea and still be scratching your head 'bout which player to put on there as.. well we all know Koreans are just sick ballers and there are many of them. I do wonder tho, does anyone know what happened to Brown? He's completely off the grid or I'm just blind. SlayerS.Brown that is.
As for foreigners..:
1. Ret (if he's in the mood/in the right mindset) 2. NaNiWa (I honestly don't like him whatsoever but I do acknowledge him as a player in general and honestly he IS one of the best foreigners) 3. Stephano 4. Thorzain 5. SaSe (I just like him in general even tho he plays P + imo he deserves to be on the list regardless of his achievements)
There are other foreigners such as MajOr, IdrA, Huk, DIMAGA, SortOf,.. But still, the list is significantly smaller than the korean one.
Brown plays part-time while he goes to college and lives outside the teamhouse. That puts some heavy weight to the fact that he made it into Code S and took down Symbol in the GSTL semifinals. But yeah, don't expect to see too much of him. I have a feeling is SlayerS weren't so undermanned at the time he may not have been in the semifinals.
But yeah, all that needs to be said about this GSL has been said. I will weigh it in my mind like half of a real GSL, sorry whoever ends up winning.
And 5v5? The last World Championship showmatch was 8v8 =(
On August 12 2012 11:54 FXOBoSs wrote: Congratulations IPL... Your desperation, and GOM's apparently, has just made the RO8 onwards completely random. Perhaps Bitbybit can win code S this season...
Hmm. So Leenock got lucky at MLG Providence? I see.
On August 13 2012 05:30 iNcontroL wrote: 1. Stephano 2. Naniwa 3. Major 4. Thorzain 5. Sase
I'd say if Ret was in form and not mind fucked atm he'd be #5 other notables would be Mana, nerchio and idra.
Can't wait though.. should be awesome. I hope they do the coach thing for the team as well
I know you're biased and all and that's ok, but really? Idra is... not on my list right now.
Still one of the best ZvT's and has a good ZvZ. Obvious weakness in ZvP. He has more experience in big matches than almost anyone you can mention and he has more accomplishments than almost anyone you can mention. IdrA hating is all the rage right now (get the pun?) but he is still one of the best. Yup, even in 2012 where the numbers have fallen off dramatically. He still competes with the absolute best.
I think his recent results are nowhere near good enough to be considered for top 5 foreigner. Having more experience in big matches doesn't count when you don't win them. He has 56% ZvT according to http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/600_IdrA and if that is "one of the best" then we might as well give up now.
You can call it "idra hating" all you want, I still don't think that he is objectively even up for consideration here if we are compiling a team of the 5 strongest foreigners.
Actually 56% when facing the people he does is really good lol
You have either very little exposure to the actual stats of these players or you have unreal expectations.
His best result in ZvT is losing to TaeJa 1-3 and beating MKP on cross server play. His victories besides that are against Cloud and STX (who?). His losses are to:
Thorzain Dream Select STX (who?)
Not that impressive.
STX is a pretty good/top NA Terran if you've never heard of him. But that's about it.
IdrA's ZvT for the year is 32.7%. His ZvZ is 48.7%, and his 36%. His numbers this year on the Korean TLPD are even worse. I'm not denying that his opponents are good, but he still has a 38% overall win rate for the year, which is pretty terrible. There's just no way he's one of the best foreigners atm.
On August 13 2012 09:23 TommyP wrote: I was thinking about this and I believe that with GSL finals and WC there that IPL5 will just become a side show and nobody will really care about it. Would you guys agree? or disagree?
Yeah -- I know that people are more concerned about the reputation of the Code S tournament, but I think this hurts the IPL tournament more (making it seem like IPL is incapable of standing on its own as a premier individual tournament, especially after what happened with the qualifiers).
On August 13 2012 06:36 SEGGLE[8] wrote: For the koreans I'd put something like
1. TaeJa 2. MVP 3. DRG/NesTea/Leenock, you might even put rorO up there lol but I guess not since he's a KeSPA player 4. MC 5. MMA (even tho he's been off the radar for a while now)/SeeD/..
Honestly, you could make at least 2 teams for korea and still be scratching your head 'bout which player to put on there as.. well we all know Koreans are just sick ballers and there are many of them. I do wonder tho, does anyone know what happened to Brown? He's completely off the grid or I'm just blind. SlayerS.Brown that is.
As for foreigners..:
1. Ret (if he's in the mood/in the right mindset) 2. NaNiWa (I honestly don't like him whatsoever but I do acknowledge him as a player in general and honestly he IS one of the best foreigners) 3. Stephano 4. Thorzain 5. SaSe (I just like him in general even tho he plays P + imo he deserves to be on the list regardless of his achievements)
There are other foreigners such as MajOr, IdrA, Huk, DIMAGA, SortOf,.. But still, the list is significantly smaller than the korean one.
Brown plays part-time while he goes to college and lives outside the teamhouse. That puts some heavy weight to the fact that he made it into Code S and took down Symbol in the GSTL semifinals. But yeah, don't expect to see too much of him. I have a feeling is SlayerS weren't so undermanned at the time he may not have been in the semifinals.
But yeah, all that needs to be said about this GSL has been said. I will weigh it in my mind like half of a real GSL, sorry whoever ends up winning.
And 5v5? The last World Championship showmatch was 8v8 =(
If I recall it was still 5v5 (bo9) so I guess they don't want players just sitting out etc.
On August 13 2012 06:36 SEGGLE[8] wrote: For the koreans I'd put something like
1. TaeJa 2. MVP 3. DRG/NesTea/Leenock, you might even put rorO up there lol but I guess not since he's a KeSPA player 4. MC 5. MMA (even tho he's been off the radar for a while now)/SeeD/..
Honestly, you could make at least 2 teams for korea and still be scratching your head 'bout which player to put on there as.. well we all know Koreans are just sick ballers and there are many of them. I do wonder tho, does anyone know what happened to Brown? He's completely off the grid or I'm just blind. SlayerS.Brown that is.
As for foreigners..:
1. Ret (if he's in the mood/in the right mindset) 2. NaNiWa (I honestly don't like him whatsoever but I do acknowledge him as a player in general and honestly he IS one of the best foreigners) 3. Stephano 4. Thorzain 5. SaSe (I just like him in general even tho he plays P + imo he deserves to be on the list regardless of his achievements)
There are other foreigners such as MajOr, IdrA, Huk, DIMAGA, SortOf,.. But still, the list is significantly smaller than the korean one.
Brown plays part-time while he goes to college and lives outside the teamhouse. That puts some heavy weight to the fact that he made it into Code S and took down Symbol in the GSTL semifinals. But yeah, don't expect to see too much of him. I have a feeling is SlayerS weren't so undermanned at the time he may not have been in the semifinals.
But yeah, all that needs to be said about this GSL has been said. I will weigh it in my mind like half of a real GSL, sorry whoever ends up winning.
And 5v5? The last World Championship showmatch was 8v8 =(
If I recall it was still 5v5 (bo9) so I guess they don't want players just sitting out etc.
On August 12 2012 11:54 FXOBoSs wrote: Congratulations IPL... Your desperation, and GOM's apparently, has just made the RO8 onwards completely random. Perhaps Bitbybit can win code S this season...
Hmm. So Leenock got lucky at MLG Providence? I see.
how is this relevant lol
Disclaimer: The following is Bagration's inferred guess at the reasoning of Rai's and Boss' posts, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Bagration or anyone affiliated with Bagration.
Well, basically Boss, like many others, feel that by putting the Ro8 to the finals of the GSL takes the emphasis off of preparation and more towards momentum and raw skill, as well as factors such as endurance. Boss claims that this makes the GSL "random", and that this would allow inferior players (such as Bitbybit) a greater chance at winning. Boss obviously appears to be against the decision to hold so much of the GSL at IPL 5.
Rai counters that FXO's largest single tournament win, Leenock's first place at MLG Providence, took place in the very format that Boss is claiming is "random", since players do not have the opportunity to prepare for each individual MLG match. Thus, by bringing up this example, Rai decides to challenge Boss' post that claimed that weekend tournaments are "random".
Calm down guys, it's just 1 GSL that they will do this, obviously they're trying to reach out for more foreign fans and support. I'm sure the games will be awesome and the event will be spectacular. Can't wait !
On August 12 2012 09:08 Fionn wrote: It's three weeks of GSL. Ro8 takes two days and then a week break for semifinals. Then the semifinals occur and the finalists get a week and a half to practice for the final.
It makes sense when you realize we only have four months left in the year and GOM still needs to do GSL4/5 an Blizzard Cup.
Yeah they reallllllllly dragged the last season out...
I'm torn. This sounds like an awesome event and if they freaking announce it a decent time in advance, I should be able to attend. On the flipside, it seems wrong to turn GSL into another weekend event and cram a bunch of events into one weekend.
On August 13 2012 06:36 SEGGLE[8] wrote: For the koreans I'd put something like
1. TaeJa 2. MVP 3. DRG/NesTea/Leenock, you might even put rorO up there lol but I guess not since he's a KeSPA player 4. MC 5. MMA (even tho he's been off the radar for a while now)/SeeD/..
Honestly, you could make at least 2 teams for korea and still be scratching your head 'bout which player to put on there as.. well we all know Koreans are just sick ballers and there are many of them. I do wonder tho, does anyone know what happened to Brown? He's completely off the grid or I'm just blind. SlayerS.Brown that is.
As for foreigners..:
1. Ret (if he's in the mood/in the right mindset) 2. NaNiWa (I honestly don't like him whatsoever but I do acknowledge him as a player in general and honestly he IS one of the best foreigners) 3. Stephano 4. Thorzain 5. SaSe (I just like him in general even tho he plays P + imo he deserves to be on the list regardless of his achievements)
There are other foreigners such as MajOr, IdrA, Huk, DIMAGA, SortOf,.. But still, the list is significantly smaller than the korean one.
Brown plays part-time while he goes to college and lives outside the teamhouse. That puts some heavy weight to the fact that he made it into Code S and took down Symbol in the GSTL semifinals. But yeah, don't expect to see too much of him. I have a feeling is SlayerS weren't so undermanned at the time he may not have been in the semifinals.
But yeah, all that needs to be said about this GSL has been said. I will weigh it in my mind like half of a real GSL, sorry whoever ends up winning.
And 5v5? The last World Championship showmatch was 8v8 =(
If I recall it was still 5v5 (bo9) so I guess they don't want players just sitting out etc.
On August 13 2012 10:53 Fearest wrote: Calm down guys, it's just 1 GSL that they will do this, obviously they're trying to reach out for more foreign fans and support. I'm sure the games will be awesome and the event will be spectacular. Can't wait !
It's great that you are so optimistic for the event, however for those of us that aren't it is important that we say that we think it's a terrible, horrendous, awful idea, so the decision makers at GSL and IGN don't ever try to repeat this.
On the upside, I hope it means Tastosis will be at the event. It would be a welcome change, in my opinion, from the regular IPL casters, of whose style and banter I am not a fan.
On August 13 2012 14:09 weeA wrote: I love the idea of the world championship there but the ro8 nah!!! 1 week or more to prepare one specific opponent produces some great match ups.
Yea, all those GSL finals that go 4-3 are amazing!
We had the good finals of Season 2 2012, but for the most part, we have one opponent show up ready and the other with his pants down. I respect the results of GSL far beyond any foreign tournament, but that has more to do with all the players involved. The games of foreign tournaments are far more exciting though.
On August 12 2012 11:54 FXOBoSs wrote: Congratulations IPL... Your desperation, and GOM's apparently, has just made the RO8 onwards completely random. Perhaps Bitbybit can win code S this season...
Hmm. So Leenock got lucky at MLG Providence? I see.
Going through an open bracket and championship bracket is not the same as prepping until RO8 then playing overseas non prepped. Your comparison is extremely flawed... you may also want to note many of the builds Leenock used would not work in a normal GSL format.
On August 12 2012 09:08 Fionn wrote: It's three weeks of GSL. Ro8 takes two days and then a week break for semifinals. Then the semifinals occur and the finalists get a week and a half to practice for the final.
It makes sense when you realize we only have four months left in the year and GOM still needs to do GSL4/5 an Blizzard Cup.
maybe you should put in the op that its 3 weeks.. would clear up a lot of confusion. I thought they would do Ro 8 -> finals on one weekend
Your not reading it correctly. Fionn is saying that its Ro8-Finals in one weekend for this IPL5/GSL finals. Normally that would take 3 or 3.5 weeks. Fionn is posting how much time is being 'saved' doing it this way, and showing the reason why.
Unless they change it then it is only on the weekend. Thats what alot of the uproar/discussion is about. No confusion, except on your part
So I DID read it correctly the first time :/ Well that sucks then. Really sucks
Oh god this is terrifying, despite coming out amazingly in the early events the productions getting worse and worse at IPL.... They need to do some serious hiring and firing because I'm not going to forgive them fecking up the GSL...
On top of that GSL without the preparation period? Thats just another crappy long weekend competition I strongly disapprove. :/
I feel bad for all the players that will be playing both GSL and IPL. It would be even funnier if someone has to play GSL, IPL, and World Championship... No way in hell is such a player going to win any event...
On August 13 2012 20:49 ggrrg wrote: I feel bad for all the players that will be playing both GSL and IPL. It would be even funnier if someone has to play GSL, IPL, and World Championship... No way in hell is such a player going to win any event...
This.
After WCS/MLG I've become increasingly wary about these multi-tournament events that happen in one weekend. The last multi-tourny event with GSL went really well, but hearing that the RO8 AND the Finals are being held together in one weekend with IPL makes me nervous that the players won't be playing their best throughout the weekend.
Not only that, but I don't like the fact that GSL RO8 and the Finals are being held so close together. Changes in tournaments keep things fresh and interesting, but sometimes it just doesn't seem to be the sort of fresh or interesting change that needs to take place, especially if it may detract from the quality of games played by the end of the weekend.
5v5 showmatch, well done good idea not been done before.
Doing round of 8 to finals of GSL? Not cool. Idea is, the players have numerous days to practice cool strats and ideas on maps vs their opponent, to not have that time is not cool. Please dont do this GOM
Dunno what u guys are fussing over. You're basically saying the winner of this tournament should receive less credit than other winners... Which is totally unfair. They're gonna have to face ridiculously good opponents through and through to be crowned champion regardless of format, so why complain. I didn't know Starcraft players are only considered good when they win whilst given time to prepare
i think this would be great if they played ONLY the round of 8 at IPL tbh. this way you still have 4 best of 5s of top Code S competition with GSL production to showcase in America, but the format of the GSL doesn't get turned on its head.
On August 14 2012 01:11 hli wrote: Dunno what u guys are fussing over. You're basically saying the winner of this tournament should receive less credit than other winners... Which is totally unfair. They're gonna have to face ridiculously good opponents through and through to be crowned champion regardless of format, so why complain. I didn't know Starcraft players are only considered good when they win whilst given time to prepare
Not less credit, but different kind of credit.
The winner will be a GSL winner only in the sense that GOM stuck a GSL Code S sticker on an IPL dual tournament. In reality it would be more like winning an IPL or MLG due to the format.
Sad considering now that most top Koreans attend international events, preparation was the one thing GOM had that made their tournament stand out.
On August 14 2012 01:11 hli wrote: Dunno what u guys are fussing over. You're basically saying the winner of this tournament should receive less credit than other winners... Which is totally unfair. They're gonna have to face ridiculously good opponents through and through to be crowned champion regardless of format, so why complain. I didn't know Starcraft players are only considered good when they win whilst given time to prepare
The level of opponents will still be there, but the level of recuperation will not be. One of the things that makes GSL so great, and hard for the players is the preparation they get to put into it. Normally for the finals, those players focus on that match-up on those specific maps, studying their opponent and going in ready for them. Once it goes from 8 to the 2, they won't have any preparation, or at least very little for their opponent. Normally the GSL is like regular sports. One week to prepare specifically for your opponent. Having runs like this makes it more like a bunch of scrimmages against different opponents.
On August 14 2012 01:25 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote: This will be interesting, very excited, really sad to see so many people complaining about too much awesome starcraft in a single event.
Well if you just want pure awesome, I suggest pro wrestling. They sacrifice legitimacy for pure entertainment.
Still don't understand that people don't see how this sucks. But well, time to stop and embrace the "More of X is better" logic.
On August 13 2012 20:49 ggrrg wrote: I feel bad for all the players that will be playing both GSL and IPL. It would be even funnier if someone has to play GSL, IPL, and World Championship... No way in hell is such a player going to win any event...
Would be hilarious if one of the players won all 3 haha.
On August 12 2012 09:08 SomeONEx wrote: I'll like the crowd, but I'm afraid I wont like the (final) games. As many said, GSL = Preparation and this wont have much of it.
Preparation doesn't always mean good games though like GSL finals has shown over and over on multiple occasions. Sure it makes them interesting in the mindgames and tailored tactics but those tactics are usually different cheeses which end the games within 10 minutes.
I'm not whining about those games though, I'm all for players doing whatever they can to win but I don't necessarily like watching the games. Still prefer it over fake games that they purposefully try to make entertaining though.
On August 14 2012 04:44 plutonowy wrote: Stephano Naniwa for sure rest is far quite bad atm Nerchio and Mana out of form tbh Sase....?;/ Anyone will do same. Lose.
kr? Seed MC DRG Curious Squirtle and its 5-0 or 5-1
Yeah, seeing that there are only Protosses and Curious+DRG, Stephano might all-kill(he has winning record against DRG and Curious aswell)....
On August 14 2012 01:25 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote: This will be interesting, very excited, really sad to see so many people complaining about too much awesome starcraft in a single event.
Well if you just want pure awesome, I suggest pro wrestling. They sacrifice legitimacy for pure entertainment.
Ridiculous hypberbole, and a poor analogy to boot. Well done!
I would agree that this GSL will have a different "feeling" as compared to others but that will not diminish the achievement of the eventual champion.
I will be there live, cheering for the swarm as always.
On August 14 2012 04:44 plutonowy wrote: Stephano Naniwa for sure rest is far quite bad atm Nerchio and Mana out of form tbh Sase....?;/ Anyone will do same. Lose.
kr? Seed MC DRG Curious Squirtle and its 5-0 or 5-1
Yeah, seeing that there are only Protosses and Curious+DRG, Stephano might all-kill(he has winning record against DRG and Curious aswell)....
U see Stephano killing 3x GSL Champions in row + Coda A 13-0 and Squirtle.....? Well i dont. They dont need terrans to own EU/NA
I don't see, even by stretching my imagination, how this could be in any way as good as a real GSL Ro8 + Semifinal + Final.
Less prepation for the players. Worst production crew ever (IPL), all stacked up in a week-end, so completly impossible to watch every game live if you have somewhat of a social life or some reponsabilities, players from korea will be jet lagged in a tournament that they normally participate in home country...
On August 14 2012 04:44 plutonowy wrote: Stephano Naniwa for sure rest is far quite bad atm Nerchio and Mana out of form tbh Sase....?;/ Anyone will do same. Lose.
kr? Seed MC DRG Curious Squirtle and its 5-0 or 5-1
Yeah, seeing that there are only Protosses and Curious+DRG, Stephano might all-kill(he has winning record against DRG and Curious aswell)....
U see Stephano killing 3x GSL Champions in row + Coda A 13-0 and Squirtle.....? Well i dont. They dont need terrans to own EU/NA
I dont think it is likely to happen but it could, did you see Squirtle vs Stephano at redbull arena ?
There are Stephano and NA/EU, but both are not the same thing
Gonna have to agree with the first poster on this. I hope GOM is the one doing all (or most of) the production of this rather than IPL. I tried to catch the finals for the IPL team leagues and the audio was so horrible that I couldn't really hear anything at all. The problem was never alleviated during the broadcast despite the fact that they were working on fixing it. In any case, that means it'll be easier for us Americans to go to a GSL event.
I hope GSL handles all the production, including IPL5. Really happy to see another world championship. Sad to see that the GSL Ro8 will turn into a generic NA/Eu tournament blitz.
ugh. squeezing Ro8 to finals is tough enough. but players who have to also play in the IPL and possibly in the 5v5 teamgame would have hell. so many back to back tournaments for a player to go thru on a single weekend. really dont like the combination of all these. this is not even talking about the usual exhaustion from playing in the different country. the finals will be whoever is less exhausted.
meh. finals will still be a gsl champion. but of a different sort. proleagues and gsl having a decent rest and preparation time are their unique selling points, than the usual weekend tournament slugfest.
On August 14 2012 08:17 ColdLava wrote: What a terrible idea. Not happy with this.
The idea of preparing for an opponent is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, factor in making a starleague great,
Exactly my thoughts, Only in the GSL do you see meticulously prepared builds to kill a specific opponent but now we can't see that ;( IMO Taeja will win if he makes it to Ro8
David Ting @dting888 I will release the detail as soon as I can. We are waiting for the OK from one partner, but ETA is this week. See you at #IPL5.
soon! i want to see how they took the community feedback into consideration if at all (i assume their announcement was delayed from the 13th due to this)
On August 12 2012 09:02 ShiroKaisen wrote: I whole-heartedly disagree with this. It might have been a scheduling necessity due to the WCS Korea taking up this entire month for GSL, but it really pulls the rug out from under GSL players who rely on week-to-week preparation like Mvp and Nestea, and favors streaky players like MarineKing.
...wait, this means MKP could win a GSL.
I'm suddenly torn.
Mvp has won multiple LAN style events, don't know what you're on about.
Wow. I know GSL finals tend to be lackluster events compared to the run-up to it, but I didn't think it was so bad that they needed cram that many rounds on top of another tournament. Am I missing something?
On August 14 2012 13:02 opterown wrote: David Ting @dting888 I will release the detail as soon as I can. We are waiting for the OK from one partner, but ETA is this week. See you at #IPL5.
Nice to see that IPL takes time and tries to make everything right.
I just realized Sen was an up and down player before he went back to Taiwan. I'd like to see Sen at a few more tournaments and maybe he can be part of TEAM WORLD again
I like that we are kept informed, however, instead of saying 'We are about to announce IPL5', I just would not say anything. Announcements of annoucements often lead to disappointment, especially when you can not meet your own deadlines that you are saying in Public. What I just quoted was a Tweet from DTing all the way back from July 25th.
I understand that you can not always meet them but it is usually better to stay quiet.
On August 12 2012 09:02 ShiroKaisen wrote: I whole-heartedly disagree with this. It might have been a scheduling necessity due to the WCS Korea taking up this entire month for GSL, but it really pulls the rug out from under GSL players who rely on week-to-week preparation like Mvp and Nestea, and favors streaky players like MarineKing.
...wait, this means MKP could win a GSL.
I'm suddenly torn.
Mvp has won multiple LAN style events, don't know what you're on about.
That was before his wrist got really bad tough. Imagine if he had to do IPL + GSL + korea vs the world now. His wrists would prolly explode.
In addition, we're taking a pause on our IPL5 announcements to address all of your concerns from production issues to compromising the format of GSL Code S.
In addition, we're taking a pause on our IPL5 announcements to address all of your concerns from production issues to compromising the format of GSL Code S.
In addition, we're taking a pause on our IPL5 announcements to address all of your concerns from production issues to compromising the format of GSL Code S.
On August 15 2012 18:44 SgtCoDFish wrote: I've never seen such a overwhelmingly negative response, wow.
I guess this doesn't really fit with the style of GSL.
Maybe that and the fact that IPL has constantly gotten worse since IPL3 adds up to it. Why fuck up GSL with a shitty IPL production. Even if Gom would do all the organizing for their RO8 there, it would leave a bad aftertaste.
I actually like these plans--it will be a cool change of pace.
Of course the GSL is known for its preparation-based format and people don't want that to change, but it's not permanent. I would hate to see a permanent change too, I think we need the GSL to stay as it is. But if they mixed in maybe one season of GSL per year that used this LAN format, it would be exciting.
Plus I don't think we can even say that it will affect the quality of the games one way or another. It's impossible to have a format that guarantees a good final, one side of the bracket can always be weaker, some players are weak in a match up, etc.
I am definitely finding a way to make it out to this event.
A lot of people are complaining that GSL is not really GSL if there isn't time to prepare. To them I say that GSL is the league where the best players in the world compete with one another. It's supposed to be the hardest tournament in the world. I think that variation is a good thing because it rewards more than one type of playing ability. Players that excel on preparation will be rewarded but not as much as consistently if there is variation in the format. I like the idea that no matter what kind of player you are, you aren't safe in the GSL. Idk, this sort of fits my model for the GSL even though it's counter-intuitive at first
On August 14 2012 01:25 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote: This will be interesting, very excited, really sad to see so many people complaining about too much awesome starcraft in a single event.
Well if you just want pure awesome, I suggest pro wrestling. They sacrifice legitimacy for pure entertainment.
Ridiculous hypberbole, and a poor analogy to boot. Well done!
I would agree that this GSL will have a different "feeling" as compared to others but that will not diminish the achievement of the eventual champion.
I will be there live, cheering for the swarm as always.
Not at all ridiculous. My point is that just because something is more "awesome" one way, doesn't make it "better". I did this by presenting the extreme situation, just to showcase how his argument was useless in my eyes. A common technique in debates.
David Ting confirms IPL5 and IPL6 to be in Las Vegas at the Cosmopolitan. IPL5 in late November, IPL6 in late March. @LiveOnThree
Hmm this makes little sense... late november not only clashes with WCS Global and Dreamhack, it also doesn't work out with the GSL 4 schedule haha.. season 4 finals were scheduled for october 27th lol
David Ting confirms IPL5 and IPL6 to be in Las Vegas at the Cosmopolitan. IPL5 in late November, IPL6 in late March. @LiveOnThree
Hmm this makes little sense... late november not only clashes with WCS Global and Dreamhack, it also doesn't work out with the GSL 4 schedule haha.. season 4 finals were scheduled for october 27th lol
David Ting confirms IPL5 and IPL6 to be in Las Vegas at the Cosmopolitan. IPL5 in late November, IPL6 in late March. @LiveOnThree
Hmm this makes little sense... late november not only clashes with WCS Global and Dreamhack, it also doesn't work out with the GSL 4 schedule haha.. season 4 finals were scheduled for october 27th lol
he already said it doesn't conflict
ah, i'm not listening atm since at work haha; care to give a quick recap? also HBD :D
David Ting confirms IPL5 and IPL6 to be in Las Vegas at the Cosmopolitan. IPL5 in late November, IPL6 in late March. @LiveOnThree
Hmm this makes little sense... late november not only clashes with WCS Global and Dreamhack, it also doesn't work out with the GSL 4 schedule haha.. season 4 finals were scheduled for october 27th lol
he already said it doesn't conflict
ah, i'm not listening atm since at work haha; care to give a quick recap? also HBD :D
He said it doesn't conflict with DH or MLG, but does with a former partner of theirs. That only leaves UK Multiplay.
David Ting confirms IPL5 and IPL6 to be in Las Vegas at the Cosmopolitan. IPL5 in late November, IPL6 in late March. @LiveOnThree
Hmm this makes little sense... late november not only clashes with WCS Global and Dreamhack, it also doesn't work out with the GSL 4 schedule haha.. season 4 finals were scheduled for october 27th lol
he already said it doesn't conflict
ah, i'm not listening atm since at work haha; care to give a quick recap? also HBD :D
He said it doesn't conflict with DH or MLG, but does with a former partner of theirs. That only leaves UK Multiplay, which is Nov. 18-21. However, that is sunday - wed, so I guess IPL will be Nov. 16-18.
that means the weekend of 17-18, right? isn't that WCS global?
David Ting confirms IPL5 and IPL6 to be in Las Vegas at the Cosmopolitan. IPL5 in late November, IPL6 in late March. @LiveOnThree
Hmm this makes little sense... late november not only clashes with WCS Global and Dreamhack, it also doesn't work out with the GSL 4 schedule haha.. season 4 finals were scheduled for october 27th lol
he already said it doesn't conflict
ah, i'm not listening atm since at work haha; care to give a quick recap? also HBD :D
He said it doesn't conflict with DH or MLG, but does with a former partner of theirs. That only leaves UK Multiplay, which is Nov. 18-21. However, that is sunday - wed, so I guess IPL will be Nov. 16-18.
that means the weekend of 17-18, right? isn't that WCS global?
Heh, forget my original dates, I was looking at Multiplay 2011 nov dates by mistake cause I just goggled UK Multiplay November and it brought me to last year's page. Trying to find 2012 winter dates now.
November 1 ESWC Day 2 2 ESWC Day 3 ----- 3 MLG Fall Champs Day 1 ESWC Day 4 4 MLG Fall Champs Day 2 ESWC Day 5 ----- 5 MLG Fall Champs Day 3 6 7 8 9 ----- 10 11 ----- 12 13 14 15 16 ----- 17 WCS Day 1 18 WCS Day 2 ----- 19 20 21 22 DreamHack Open Winter Day 1 23 DreamHack Open Winter Day 2 ----- 24 DreamHack Open Winter Day 3 25 DreamHack Open Winter Day 4 ----- 26 27 28 29 WCG Day 1 30 WCG Day 2
this is how my november 'to watch' list looks atm (some days may be a day off since i've adjusted for australian time zones) but the only 'free' weekend is 10-11 and that isn't 'late' november hrmm. would work out really well if 10-11 was ipl5 though, although i feel sorry for koreans if they play in code S as well as all the foreigner events haha
There is no way without pissing off fans they can stretch Season 4 out for three months. Especially considering that is one month longer than a usual season runs AND half the season will be condensed into three days at the tail end.
Even if it was just the finals, GSL would have to do the Up/Downs between the semifinals and finals so that there isn't a huge gap. If it's late November and the Ro8->Finals thing is still true, then the Ro32/Ro16 should be done by the start of October. Meaning a month and a half/two month wait.
Also would only give GSL one month to do season five and Blizzard Cup, which seems impossible.
It can't be late November. David Ting said it doesn't clash with MLG (Nov 2-4), WCS Finals (Nov 17-18) or DH Winter (Nov 22-25). That leaves the weekend of Nov 9-11.
edit: unless it goes really late november as in ends on december 2nd
On August 16 2012 10:13 Fionn wrote: How the hell is IPL5 in late November?
There is no way without pissing off fans they can stretch Season 4 out for three months. Especially considering that is one month longer than a usual season runs AND half the season will be condensed into three days at the tail end.
Even if it was just the finals, GSL would have to do the Up/Downs between the semifinals and finals so that there isn't a huge gap. If it's late November and the Ro8->Finals thing is still true, then the Ro32/Ro16 should be done by the start of October. Meaning a month and a half/two month wait.
Also would only give GSL one month to do season five and Blizzard Cup, which seems impossible.
Good observations—one must wonder what GOM has planned for this. Maybe GSTL will be on a shorter schedule to fill in the gap? That still wouldn't explain the short timespan for Season 5 (I'm going to go ahead and assume that, given the time frame we're looking at, there won't even be a Blizzard Cup this year; I mean, how can there be?) though.
On August 16 2012 10:13 Fionn wrote: How the hell is IPL5 in late November?
There is no way without pissing off fans they can stretch Season 4 out for three months. Especially considering that is one month longer than a usual season runs AND half the season will be condensed into three days at the tail end.
Even if it was just the finals, GSL would have to do the Up/Downs between the semifinals and finals so that there isn't a huge gap. If it's late November and the Ro8->Finals thing is still true, then the Ro32/Ro16 should be done by the start of October. Meaning a month and a half/two month wait.
Also would only give GSL one month to do season five and Blizzard Cup, which seems impossible.
Good observations—one must wonder what GOM has planned for this. Maybe GSTL will be on a shorter schedule to fill in the gap? That still wouldn't explain the short timespan for Season 5 (I'm going to go ahead and assume that, given the time frame we're looking at, there won't even be a Blizzard Cup this year; I mean, how can there be?) though.
On August 16 2012 10:13 Fionn wrote: How the hell is IPL5 in late November?
There is no way without pissing off fans they can stretch Season 4 out for three months. Especially considering that is one month longer than a usual season runs AND half the season will be condensed into three days at the tail end.
Even if it was just the finals, GSL would have to do the Up/Downs between the semifinals and finals so that there isn't a huge gap. If it's late November and the Ro8->Finals thing is still true, then the Ro32/Ro16 should be done by the start of October. Meaning a month and a half/two month wait.
Also would only give GSL one month to do season five and Blizzard Cup, which seems impossible.
Good observations—one must wonder what GOM has planned for this. Maybe GSTL will be on a shorter schedule to fill in the gap? That still wouldn't explain the short timespan for Season 5 (I'm going to go ahead and assume that, given the time frame we're looking at, there won't even be a Blizzard Cup this year; I mean, how can there be?) though.
they managed to put in GSL4, GSL5 and BlizzCup. There's no GSTL here, but GSTL is on friday/sat anyway, so it would fit in ok
That website's dates can't be correct given the Season 4 Ro8-Final IPL collaboration though—it has GSL season 4 finishing before October is even over and season 5 beginning in the first week of November.
On August 16 2012 10:13 Fionn wrote: How the hell is IPL5 in late November?
There is no way without pissing off fans they can stretch Season 4 out for three months. Especially considering that is one month longer than a usual season runs AND half the season will be condensed into three days at the tail end.
Even if it was just the finals, GSL would have to do the Up/Downs between the semifinals and finals so that there isn't a huge gap. If it's late November and the Ro8->Finals thing is still true, then the Ro32/Ro16 should be done by the start of October. Meaning a month and a half/two month wait.
Also would only give GSL one month to do season five and Blizzard Cup, which seems impossible.
Good observations—one must wonder what GOM has planned for this. Maybe GSTL will be on a shorter schedule to fill in the gap? That still wouldn't explain the short timespan for Season 5 (I'm going to go ahead and assume that, given the time frame we're looking at, there won't even be a Blizzard Cup this year; I mean, how can there be?) though.
they managed to put in GSL4, GSL5 and BlizzCup. There's no GSTL here, but GSTL is on friday/sat anyway, so it would fit in ok
That website's dates can't be correct given the Season 4 Ro8-Final IPL collaboration though—it has GSL season 4 finishing before October is even over and season 5 beginning in the first week of November.
i know, so this is making little sense overall haha hrmmmm.
On August 16 2012 10:13 Fionn wrote: How the hell is IPL5 in late November?
There is no way without pissing off fans they can stretch Season 4 out for three months. Especially considering that is one month longer than a usual season runs AND half the season will be condensed into three days at the tail end.
Even if it was just the finals, GSL would have to do the Up/Downs between the semifinals and finals so that there isn't a huge gap. If it's late November and the Ro8->Finals thing is still true, then the Ro32/Ro16 should be done by the start of October. Meaning a month and a half/two month wait.
Also would only give GSL one month to do season five and Blizzard Cup, which seems impossible.
Good observations—one must wonder what GOM has planned for this. Maybe GSTL will be on a shorter schedule to fill in the gap? That still wouldn't explain the short timespan for Season 5 (I'm going to go ahead and assume that, given the time frame we're looking at, there won't even be a Blizzard Cup this year; I mean, how can there be?) though.
they managed to put in GSL4, GSL5 and BlizzCup. There's no GSTL here, but GSTL is on friday/sat anyway, so it would fit in ok
That website's dates can't be correct given the Season 4 Ro8-Final IPL collaboration though—it has GSL season 4 finishing before October is even over and season 5 beginning in the first week of November.
i know, so this is making little sense overall haha hrmmmm.
Yeah, very strange indeed! I imagine we'll be getting more information after WCS is over.
On August 16 2012 10:13 Fionn wrote: How the hell is IPL5 in late November?
There is no way without pissing off fans they can stretch Season 4 out for three months. Especially considering that is one month longer than a usual season runs AND half the season will be condensed into three days at the tail end.
Even if it was just the finals, GSL would have to do the Up/Downs between the semifinals and finals so that there isn't a huge gap. If it's late November and the Ro8->Finals thing is still true, then the Ro32/Ro16 should be done by the start of October. Meaning a month and a half/two month wait.
Also would only give GSL one month to do season five and Blizzard Cup, which seems impossible.
Good observations—one must wonder what GOM has planned for this. Maybe GSTL will be on a shorter schedule to fill in the gap? That still wouldn't explain the short timespan for Season 5 (I'm going to go ahead and assume that, given the time frame we're looking at, there won't even be a Blizzard Cup this year; I mean, how can there be?) though.
they managed to put in GSL4, GSL5 and BlizzCup. There's no GSTL here, but GSTL is on friday/sat anyway, so it would fit in ok
That website's dates can't be correct given the Season 4 Ro8-Final IPL collaboration though—it has GSL season 4 finishing before October is even over and season 5 beginning in the first week of November.
i know, so this is making little sense overall haha hrmmmm.
We'll just have to wait until IPL or GOM confirms what's really going to happen.
What I think will happen is they do the regular GSL/GSTL season in a normal timeframe, have the ro8-finals at IPL in November, have the Blizzard Cup in December and push 2012 Season 5 to 2013. They can't rush all those seasons into there.
On August 16 2012 10:13 Fionn wrote: How the hell is IPL5 in late November?
There is no way without pissing off fans they can stretch Season 4 out for three months. Especially considering that is one month longer than a usual season runs AND half the season will be condensed into three days at the tail end.
Even if it was just the finals, GSL would have to do the Up/Downs between the semifinals and finals so that there isn't a huge gap. If it's late November and the Ro8->Finals thing is still true, then the Ro32/Ro16 should be done by the start of October. Meaning a month and a half/two month wait.
Also would only give GSL one month to do season five and Blizzard Cup, which seems impossible.
Good observations—one must wonder what GOM has planned for this. Maybe GSTL will be on a shorter schedule to fill in the gap? That still wouldn't explain the short timespan for Season 5 (I'm going to go ahead and assume that, given the time frame we're looking at, there won't even be a Blizzard Cup this year; I mean, how can there be?) though.
they managed to put in GSL4, GSL5 and BlizzCup. There's no GSTL here, but GSTL is on friday/sat anyway, so it would fit in ok
That website's dates can't be correct given the Season 4 Ro8-Final IPL collaboration though—it has GSL season 4 finishing before October is even over and season 5 beginning in the first week of November.
i know, so this is making little sense overall haha hrmmmm.
huh? That dates make perfect sense. GSL 4 has to finish before November. And since it starts in September, it feels just right. Takes about a month before group stages are finished and then the Ro8 to Finals weekend finish in October with IPL. The GSL schedule seems correct. Hence, IPL should be in October.
On August 16 2012 10:13 Fionn wrote: How the hell is IPL5 in late November?
There is no way without pissing off fans they can stretch Season 4 out for three months. Especially considering that is one month longer than a usual season runs AND half the season will be condensed into three days at the tail end.
Even if it was just the finals, GSL would have to do the Up/Downs between the semifinals and finals so that there isn't a huge gap. If it's late November and the Ro8->Finals thing is still true, then the Ro32/Ro16 should be done by the start of October. Meaning a month and a half/two month wait.
Also would only give GSL one month to do season five and Blizzard Cup, which seems impossible.
Good observations—one must wonder what GOM has planned for this. Maybe GSTL will be on a shorter schedule to fill in the gap? That still wouldn't explain the short timespan for Season 5 (I'm going to go ahead and assume that, given the time frame we're looking at, there won't even be a Blizzard Cup this year; I mean, how can there be?) though.
they managed to put in GSL4, GSL5 and BlizzCup. There's no GSTL here, but GSTL is on friday/sat anyway, so it would fit in ok
That website's dates can't be correct given the Season 4 Ro8-Final IPL collaboration though—it has GSL season 4 finishing before October is even over and season 5 beginning in the first week of November.
i know, so this is making little sense overall haha hrmmmm.
huh? That dates make perfect sense. GSL 4 has to finish before November. And since it starts in September, it feels just right. Takes about a month before group stages are finished and then the Ro8 to Finals weekend finish in October with IPL. The GSL schedule seems correct. Hence, IPL should be in October.
excatly, ipl5 should be mid-late oct, except that it's been announced for late november haha. :p
Maybe the GSL Ro8-Finals at IPL5 will be for Season 5 rather than season 4. Did they confirm that it was definitely season 4? If it was for 5 then it could be the week going in to the 2nd December to finish just in time for Blizzard Cup.
On August 19 2012 08:31 Yonnua wrote: Maybe the GSL Ro8-Finals at IPL5 will be for Season 5 rather than season 4. Did they confirm that it was definitely season 4? If it was for 5 then it could be the week going in to the 2nd December to finish just in time for Blizzard Cup.
season 5 ro8-finals coullddd work if they speed it up a bit, right now ro8-finals were planned for mid-late dec for season 5 and blizzcup for dec 24-31 i think haha but afaik ipl5 is no longer ro8-finals, they're changing it
Has anyone considered the fact that maybe it will be GSL Season 5 there and not 4?
On August 19 2012 08:31 Yonnua wrote: Maybe the GSL Ro8-Finals at IPL5 will be for Season 5 rather than season 4. Did they confirm that it was definitely season 4? If it was for 5 then it could be the week going in to the 2nd December to finish just in time for Blizzard Cup.
On August 19 2012 08:31 Yonnua wrote: Maybe the GSL Ro8-Finals at IPL5 will be for Season 5 rather than season 4. Did they confirm that it was definitely season 4? If it was for 5 then it could be the week going in to the 2nd December to finish just in time for Blizzard Cup.
season 5 ro8-finals coullddd work if they speed it up a bit, right now ro8-finals were planned for mid-late dec for season 5 and blizzcup for dec 24-31 i think haha but afaik ipl5 is no longer ro8-finals, they're changing it
What are they changing it to? Finals only? Do you have a source?
On August 19 2012 08:31 Yonnua wrote: Maybe the GSL Ro8-Finals at IPL5 will be for Season 5 rather than season 4. Did they confirm that it was definitely season 4? If it was for 5 then it could be the week going in to the 2nd December to finish just in time for Blizzard Cup.
On August 19 2012 08:31 Yonnua wrote: Maybe the GSL Ro8-Finals at IPL5 will be for Season 5 rather than season 4. Did they confirm that it was definitely season 4? If it was for 5 then it could be the week going in to the 2nd December to finish just in time for Blizzard Cup.
season 5 ro8-finals coullddd work if they speed it up a bit, right now ro8-finals were planned for mid-late dec for season 5 and blizzcup for dec 24-31 i think haha but afaik ipl5 is no longer ro8-finals, they're changing it
What are they changing it to? Finals only? Do you have a source?
no source, but on reddit kevinknocke said it won't be ro8-finals i think?
but yeah, this is kinda funny, six month qualifier period haha
I only read the OP of that but I think all he said was that they were looking into changing what they were going to do for GSL. I really hope it will be Finals only, RO8-Finals would absolutely kill that season of GSL without a doubt. If GSL players wanted to play a tournament like that then they would play in a tournament like that, that crap just doesn't belong in GSL.
Mixed feelings about this. I want to see a huge double-elimination tournament, but with this the format might change.
Best thing IPL did. The other qualifiers has been a complete disaster. Many good players couldn't participate because the qualifiers was scheduled same time as other tournaments. Glad IPL took this decision
Mixed feelings about this. I want to see a huge double-elimination tournament, but with this the format might change.
Best thing IPL did. The other qualifiers has been a complete disaster. Many good players couldn't participate because the qualifiers was scheduled same time as other tournaments. Glad IPL took this decision
I'm still super-surprised why IPL receives so much hate when the dates was announced way ahead but everyone says that it was announced with so short notice. And when MLG announced their qualifiers the very same week, then they didn't receive even one tenth of the criticism IPL got.
Also, many Swedish players couldn't celebrate one their most important holidays because MLG had schedule a qualifier to take place during that weekend
On August 21 2012 09:40 Hall0wed wrote: I only read the OP of that but I think all he said was that they were looking into changing what they were going to do for GSL. I really hope it will be Finals only, RO8-Finals would absolutely kill that season of GSL without a doubt. If GSL players wanted to play a tournament like that then they would play in a tournament like that, that crap just doesn't belong in GSL.
I think I'd be okay with GSL Ro4 on Thursday night and then Finals on Saturday/Sunday night. Would give 2-3 days to prepare, not as much as usual, but still a decent amount of time. But definitely not Ro8-Finals.
this GSL calendar has changed from what it was a few weeks ago. i do believe IPL5 will be GSL4 Finals only.
they'll be starting GSL5 before GSL4 finals are done though lolol
I don't see the Code S S4 finals in that list. What date are you seeing it at?
If anything, I see GSL now has Code S5 Ro4 scheduled for the 30th of November. That would line up with IPL5's rumored Late November date. Could have the GSL Ro4 on the 30th and then the finals on the 1st/2nd. Then we have to wonder if IPL would really clash with WCG. I really liked that November 8th-11th date too, but it doesn't line up with GSL or what Slasher said.
this GSL calendar has changed from what it was a few weeks ago. i do believe IPL5 will be GSL4 Finals only.
they'll be starting GSL5 before GSL4 finals are done though lolol
I sure hope they don't start gsl 5 before gsl 4 finals are done. That would be even more retarded than ro8 at IPL because someone could get hot for gsl 4 and then you break up their rhythm by delaying finals and starting gsl 5 before gsl 4 finals are played?