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gedatsu
1286 Posts
On August 12 2012 23:08 MrKn4rz wrote: Name more then 2 Foreigners who ARE on par with top level Koreans. There are more than 2 players who will have a much better chance than her. Stephano and Naniwa are given, on the next tier is Nerchio and we also need a terran and Tzain is the best we've got (possibly Kas, but not really). For the 5th spot there are at least 5 contenders to look at before her. | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On August 12 2012 23:37 killerdog wrote: The people saying that a day is plenty of time to practice don't seem understand what it is that makes GSL unique, it's the same reason tournaments like OSL and MSL have always had such good games, and that is that the players spend several days preparing for each MAP in the series, they prepare a special unique build for each game in the series after having spent hours analysing vods of the opponents play to try and determine their weaknesses and this leads to games which are both unique and of the highest possible level. This is why the GSL is the best tournament, because every game played in it is a test not only of mechanics and game sense but also of a players ability to plan a BoX, to prepare specific strategies, to innovate and analyse. If you are seriously telling me that this level of competition can be maintained while jet-lagged, playing in two tournaments and with less then a days preparation (which takes place in a much worse practice environment then a team house) then I wish you all the best in life, but i don't see how gom can possible see this as a good idea. Gom has based it's entire buisiness model off the fact that it is the only premier korean sc2 league, and therefore they can afford to have no vods despite broadcasting at shitty hours, and to have the free stream be 240p (with supply counts unreadable.) But with the OSL about to start they are suddenly going to have competition, so the only thing going for it right now is that it has the best games of any tournament in the world. If this ends up happening then GSL is basically relegated to just another weekend tournament, and i don't see how the "GSL champion" title will anywhere near the same weight compared to the title of "OSL" champion... Don't do this to yourself gom >.< no one is disagreeing with all you guys who feel like posting the same exact thing over and over in a big wall of text just some of us dont mind a small change and a gauntlet style tournament. Yes, not having the preparation sucks. But its not the fucking end of the world. The finals will be better than most gsl finals, GSL is notorious for having bad finals. And that is partly due to the 'preparation' time you guys all seem to love. Kinda funny actually. Bad Finals=Constant Bitching for a few days, when the reasons the finals are bad are the reasons you love the tournament. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On August 12 2012 23:48 ohampatu wrote: no one is disagreeing with all you guys who feel like posting the same exact thing over and over in a big wall of text just some of us dont mind a small change and a gauntlet style tournament. Yes, not having the preparation sucks. But its not the fucking end of the world. The finals will be better than most gsl finals, GSL is notorious for having bad finals. And that is partly due to the 'preparation' time you guys all seem to love. Kinda funny actually. Bad Finals=Constant Bitching for a few days, when the reasons the finals are bad are the reasons you love the tournament. Anyone who thinks the GSL finals are underwhelming is an idiot. The GSL is where all of the metagame changes come from. Don't expect many if every game is played right after the next. | ||
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halim42
France95 Posts
stephano thorzain naniwa 100% best ok but scarlett hahaha trolling | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On August 12 2012 23:53 Shiori wrote: Anyone who thinks the GSL finals are underwhelming is an idiot. The GSL is where all of the metagame changes come from. Don't expect many if every game is played right after the next. Lol. There are have been 3 good finals in GSL in 2 years. 4-1 roflstomps are common. And no, the metagame changes come from KR, but not just the finals. And sometimes not even then (stephano changing zvp for instance). Im not disagreeing with you. Just stating what appears to be facts. Yes some people may think a 4-1 stomp is a good final. But id rather a 4-3 with back and forth action. Its both awesome and sad to see a player completely dismantle his opponent due to preparation. A gauntlet style tourney wont ruin esports. you'll live edit: and i never said they were underwhelming. But just because the finals aren't underwhelming doesn't mean they are good. Weve only recently had good GSL finals. We went through 1.5 years of shitty rofl stomps | ||
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Zer atai
United States691 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On August 12 2012 23:25 ohampatu wrote: My 5v5. A bit differant than others. Idk why you guys keep putting players like MVP and Nestea in. They are not worthy in their current form. Foreigners: Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain for sure. The last two are up for grabs. Nerchio/Kas/Vortix/Scarlett/Mana could all be good choices. But i would also like Illusion/Macsen for a couple of dark horses. Really, apart from the 3 listed, we dont have any 'good' foreigners left with the results needed to be in the group. Korea: Taeja, MKP, Seed, MC. The 5th is hard, really want a zerg DRG/Curious would be my picks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Tournament: Im perfectly fine with hosting Ro8-Finals, doing each round on a seperate day. Yes its less preparation, but the KR coaches are pretty fucking good. I remember when STC was in mlg and couldn't beat (stephano??) the player he was pl aying. TheWind called him up and told him how to win. Shit like that is awesome. 1 gauntlet style tournament wont kill us. IPL wont be the production team, last time GOM was in charge of production. So that should be as high as normal for GOM standards. All-in All. Im pretty excited As for the 5v5, since it is kind of a "showmatch", GSL and IPL might just choose the big name players such as MVP, Nestea, MC, MKP, MMA, DRG, etc, over players who have looked strong recently but don't have such large fan followings. Of course, that's just theorizing by me. | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On August 13 2012 00:08 Zer atai wrote: How about let's compromise, have the Ro4 and the finals, not the quarterfinals. I agree that it would be better that way. Ro4 on first day, then 2 days to prepare for the final. Im not saying it couldn't be altered to be a better schedule. I just think the whole 'i hate gsl now because your ruining the preparation' argument is funny. Ideally I think you have it though. First Day-Ro4. Then they get the whole next day and half of another day to prepare/play in the other tourney/rest. And if it does start at Ro4. Then the player could prepare for multiple matches before heading to IPL. Which would degrade the preparation, but at least there would be preparation. I think alot of people understimate Koreans and preparing though. There have been numerous weekend tournies where koreans have had full sets prepared for prospective opponents. Tricky all-ins etc. The KR teams help eachother, and if GOM gives the people a bad schedule, the team will make up for it. They always do, cause they are boss. So yes, i understand everybodys issues, i just think its not the end of the world like others As for the 5v5, since it is kind of a "showmatch", GSL and IPL might just choose the big name players such as MVP, Nestea, MC, MKP, MMA, DRG, etc, over players who have looked strong recently but don't have such large fan followings. Of course, that's just theorizing by me. True they may. I realize GOM is a business so they will go for maximum revenue. I just think some of our newer GSL champions and upcoming players aren't getting the attention they deserve. They still feel like they are 'in the shadows' when in all realistic combinations, MVP and Nestea will prolly never again be who they were. We can't keep choosing the old gods over the new ones. It undermimes the up and coming players achievments. All depends on how GOM approaches it. Do they go for current max skill, or do they go for max revenue? | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On August 13 2012 00:08 Zer atai wrote: How about let's compromise, have the Ro4 and the finals, not the quarterfinals. Would be so much better. You can realistically prepare for 3 players, but not for 7. | ||
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sixfour
England11062 Posts
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On August 12 2012 23:57 ohampatu wrote: Lol. There are have been 3 good finals in GSL in 2 years. 4-1 roflstomps are common. And no, the metagame changes come from KR, but not just the finals. And sometimes not even then (stephano changing zvp for instance). Im not disagreeing with you. Just stating what appears to be facts. Yes some people may think a 4-1 stomp is a good final. But id rather a 4-3 with back and forth action. Its both awesome and sad to see a player completely dismantle his opponent due to preparation. A gauntlet style tourney wont ruin esports. you'll live edit: and i never said they were underwhelming. But just because the finals aren't underwhelming doesn't mean they are good. Weve only recently had good GSL finals. We went through 1.5 years of shitty rofl stomps A 4-1 stomp can be very illuminating and interesting. See Taeja's games. And yeah, gauntlet toruanemnts don't ruin esports...but we already have gauntlet tournaments. In fact, every tournament other than the GSL is a gauntlet tournament. People don't realize that the prep. time is what makes the GSL so prestigious. Every modicum of effort and strategy and skill is marshaled to take down one specific person. It embodies everything about warfare and strategy. It's awesome. Half the MLGs/NASLs/etc have relatively underdogs getting really far just by winning a lucky series with a gimmicky playstyle that the other player had no time to study. It cheapens the experience insofar as I don't feel that the strategic base of the game is advancing much. It's definitely exciting, yeah, but we already have that with MLG/NASL/DH/etcetc. | ||
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sixfour
England11062 Posts
On August 13 2012 00:19 Shiori wrote: People don't realize that the prep. time is what makes the GSL so prestigious. not really. it is prestigious because it happens to be based where all the good players are and was there before other tournaments. | ||
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Zane
Romania3916 Posts
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On August 13 2012 00:11 Bagration wrote: As for the 5v5, since it is kind of a "showmatch", GSL and IPL might just choose the big name players such as MVP, Nestea, MC, MKP, MMA, DRG, etc, over players who have looked strong recently but don't have such large fan followings. Of course, that's just theorizing by me. Or they could take Taeja, easy 5-0 :D | ||
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Dexington
Canada7276 Posts
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MrKn4rz
Germany2153 Posts
Exactly. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On August 13 2012 00:13 ohampatu wrote: True they may. I realize GOM is a business so they will go for maximum revenue. I just think some of our newer GSL champions and upcoming players aren't getting the attention they deserve. They still feel like they are 'in the shadows' when in all realistic combinations, MVP and Nestea will prolly never again be who they were. We can't keep choosing the old gods over the new ones. It undermimes the up and coming players achievments. All depends on how GOM approaches it. Do they go for current max skill, or do they go for max revenue? + Show Spoiler + One of the problems with the up and coming players is that it is hard to know which players are going to be good long-term, and which players are going to be "flash in the pan players". For example, players like TOP, aLive, Losira, Jjakji were all at one point making incredible GSL runs and major tournament runs, and were all at one point considered top players. But all 4 of them have all had their "peaks" (Losira getting 2nd at GSL and MLG, TOP making Ro4 Super Tournament and 2nd in GSL, aLive making Ro4 GSL and winning IPL 4, Jjakji winning GSL November), but they were never able to really keep their dominant form for a long time. What separates them from players like MVP, Nestea, MC, MMA, is consistency: The ability to win repeatedly and stand the test of time. MVP, Nestea, and MC were all strong players from the early days of SC2, and are still strong players to this day. MC has made it to the GSL finals in 2010, 2011, and 2012. Out of the listed players above, MMA is probably the least consistent in the long-run, but even he has made it to the GSL finals 3 times in 2011, and has been winning premier tournaments as recent as May 2012, more than a year after he first led Slayers to a GSTL title. I think GSL and IPL will probably go for max revenue with the old guard. Bigger names = more viewership and interest, and plus the foreigners will likely have a better chance to put up a good fight, which would lead to more interest. (I spoilered the above because it is basically just a long rambling). | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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Neobick
Sweden208 Posts
On August 13 2012 00:16 sixfour wrote: aaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha just read the first two pages and cannot believe the amount of hate It's has nothing to do with hate. It just a stupid decision. You can love someone and still point out when they do something stupid. Comprende, amigo? | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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