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On August 17 2012 06:23 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 06:03 captainwaffles wrote:
Oh man, I seriously can not wait until the beta! I am going to relish in protoss tears as their 1a, 1 control group deathball marches into mine and mine wins, its going to be unbelievably sweet to hear the cry's of imba they have so long denied "oh you just need to micro better" I'll say as I steal their ladder points all the way to the bank.
Seriously the current design of the match up (TvP) is complete shit, the way they force terran players to play makes me so angry. Just be better than your oppoent and have better control and multitasking and its fine! But equal skill and all hell breaks loose. And goddamn imagine playing against a protoss that just sits and makes a deathball, its ludicrous when they have half a brain and use warp prisms like Terrans use medivacs. I can't wait for all the terran players who finally get the 1-a army, try to use it against protoss and still lose anyways. Then we will finally be able to say "Maybe you were never that good at Starcraft 2".
If I lose cause my opponent had better multitasking and was all over the place thats fine and to be expected, and I think thats what it will take to beat mech in HoTS, can never be sure though, only so much you can gleam from the HoTS custom map you know?
For me, in the post you replied too I was referring to a very specific type of style where it doesn't matter if you have a better economy or did damage with drops, they just force that one last battle and if you don't have a perfect engagement it was all for not anyway, which is fucking bullshit. But it seems but sides will have great opportunities for harass and games should be much more even overall and it won't come down to a perfect engagement from Terran.
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First HOTS "Battle Report" I watched.....
WTF is going on??
Is day9 paid by blizzard to promote their game? It actually physically hurts to listen to the two idiots constantly saying "oh my god this" and "oh my god that" and "oh my god oh my god" I mean this is just painful and wrong! I know it is a sacrilege punishable by death to criticize day9 but this is just ridiculous. It's shameless and obvious propaganda for HOTS and the usual analytic and fun style of day9 is nowhere to be found but instead replaced by overexcited praise (probably bought by blizzard) for the new units... I mean WTF??
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On August 17 2012 07:13 WolfgangKies wrote:
First HOTS "Battle Report" I watched.....
WTF is going on??
Is day9 paid by blizzard to promote their game? It actually physically hurts to listen to the two idiots constantly saying "oh my god this" and "oh my god that" and "oh my god oh my god" I mean this is just painful and wrong! I know it is a sacrilege punishable by death to criticize day9 but this is just ridiculous. It's shameless and obvious propaganda for HOTS and the usual analytic and fun style of day9 is nowhere to be found but instead replaced by overexcited praise (probably bought by blizzard) for the new units... I mean WTF??
I know what you mean, but to be fair, day9 has never had anything but praise for sc and sc2. Paid or not, he'll promote the game. It's what he does.
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On August 17 2012 07:21 FrogOfWar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 07:13 WolfgangKies wrote:
First HOTS "Battle Report" I watched.....
WTF is going on??
Is day9 paid by blizzard to promote their game? It actually physically hurts to listen to the two idiots constantly saying "oh my god this" and "oh my god that" and "oh my god oh my god" I mean this is just painful and wrong! I know it is a sacrilege punishable by death to criticize day9 but this is just ridiculous. It's shameless and obvious propaganda for HOTS and the usual analytic and fun style of day9 is nowhere to be found but instead replaced by overexcited praise (probably bought by blizzard) for the new units... I mean WTF?? I know what you mean, but to be fair, day9 has never had anything but praise for sc and sc2. Paid or not, he'll promote the game. It's what he does.
Of course you're right, but now there is a big difference... day9, husky etc. played sc, played sc2 and they loved it, made videos about something they truly enjoyed (without expecting a big profit from it) and eventually became successful with it (probably because they were so passionate about it). I see it as a big problem if you then suddenly are passionate and excited (and not the least critical) about something because you're getting paid for it, because you are popular in that field. (I'm not saying it happend here, but it almost seems that way);
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Ok, i'm no big fan of some of the things i've seen of HOTS, but the Day9 hate is getting ridiculous.
This Battle Reports are there to show the game AND to act as a hype/ advertisement video. I hate the "OMG super duper" hype BS that is infesting SC2 in general, but this is the way it is, no reason to hate on one individual for it.
Day9 has been critical of SC2, in a very polite way, and he talks about SC:BW all the time (hint;hint) Him being close to Blizzard, to the development team, is a very, very good thing for the game.
Now, if he could just get Dustin Browder drunk enough to convince him to get rid of the stupid Warhound, that would be great.
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I don't want to psychoanalyze Day[9], but he has always been passionate about popularizing e-sports. He's invested a lot of effort into things like the after hours gaming league and his daily, things that are not targeted at people that frequent TL and are already 'converted'. This video is obviously meant for general consumption for sites like IGN and gamespot, TL and reddit are simply not the audience. Day[9] could be more nuanced and skeptical, but that's not in his interests. Obviously, intelligent commentary suffers for these things and it's a fair criticism, but I don't think there's enough evidence to say that Day[9] has sold out.
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On August 17 2012 06:03 captainwaffles wrote:
Oh man, I seriously can not wait until the beta! I am going to relish in protoss tears as their 1a, 1 control group deathball marches into mine and mine wins, its going to be unbelievably sweet to hear the cry's of imba they have so long denied "oh you just need to micro better" I'll say as I steal their ladder points all the way to the bank.
Seriously the current design of the match up (TvP) is complete shit, the way they force terran players to play makes me so angry. Just be better than your oppoent and have better control and multitasking and its fine! But equal skill and all hell breaks loose. And goddamn imagine playing against a protoss that just sits and makes a deathball, its ludicrous when they have half a brain and use warp prisms like Terrans use medivacs.
Hate to break this to you, but top Protoss players don't use 1 control group.
As usual, you project your own failings in a matchup onto the entire metagame when, in fact, PvT is fine at a high level. Saying to use Warp Prisms like Medivacs just kinda shows you have no clue what you're talking about.
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On August 17 2012 07:49 Grumbels wrote:
I don't want to psychoanalyze Day[9], but he has always been passionate about popularizing e-sports. He's invested a lot of effort into things like the after hours gaming league and his daily, things that are not targeted at people that frequent TL and are already 'converted'. This video is obviously meant for general consumption for sites like IGN and gamespot, TL and reddit are simply not the audience. Day[9] could be more nuanced and skeptical, but that's not in his interests. Obviously, intelligent commentary suffers for these things and it's a fair criticism, but I don't think there's enough evidence to say that Day[9] has sold out.
Don't get me wrong, I don't say day9 has "sold out" or anything along those lines, and I carry no hate whatsoever towards him, but it should be clear to everyone that this "battle report" is basically just an ad for hots. And there is nothing wrong with that, if someone is willing to stand behind a certain product (and maybe gets paid for it) it is totally ok but don't try to "sell" it as some kind of i guess "battle report". Just call it "the new hots ad featuring day9"
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Now, Ima let you finish but...
If that army had been caught without anti air (or 3 vikings) by 4 carriers, it'd be gone.
Tempest needs to go. now.
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United Kingdom12023 Posts
On August 17 2012 08:13 Protein wrote:
Now, Ima let you finish but...
If that army had been caught without anti air (or 3 vikings) by 4 carriers, it'd be gone.
Tempest needs to go. now.
I've been playing mech in TvP recently and it's suprising how many times I just lose to carriers when I don't have enough vikings.
Carriers are useless against bio, but they're so damned good against mech. Same as in BW I feel.
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my god, the warhound is so boring <.<
and the mineral block thingy, its a joke. zero micro/multitask harass unit. I had higher hopes for HOTS :/
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On August 17 2012 07:51 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 06:03 captainwaffles wrote:
Oh man, I seriously can not wait until the beta! I am going to relish in protoss tears as their 1a, 1 control group deathball marches into mine and mine wins, its going to be unbelievably sweet to hear the cry's of imba they have so long denied "oh you just need to micro better" I'll say as I steal their ladder points all the way to the bank.
Seriously the current design of the match up (TvP) is complete shit, the way they force terran players to play makes me so angry. Just be better than your oppoent and have better control and multitasking and its fine! But equal skill and all hell breaks loose. And goddamn imagine playing against a protoss that just sits and makes a deathball, its ludicrous when they have half a brain and use warp prisms like Terrans use medivacs. Hate to break this to you, but top Protoss players don't use 1 control group. As usual, you project your own failings in a matchup onto the entire metagame when, in fact, PvT is fine at a high level. Saying to use Warp Prisms like Medivacs just kinda shows you have no clue what you're talking about.
Ah no, they use 2 control groups, thats one bigger than 1!
Man I don't know what they were teaching me in debate class, I should just wave my hand and is everything is all good and then it will make me seem I'm smart and know what I'm talking about even though I said nothing of actual substance at all!
TvP is fine at the top level, I never said it wasn't but at the masters and high master level blizzard themselves have said it was totally bonked (paraphrasing).
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On August 17 2012 08:30 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 08:13 Protein wrote:
Now, Ima let you finish but...
If that army had been caught without anti air (or 3 vikings) by 4 carriers, it'd be gone.
Tempest needs to go. now. I've been playing mech in TvP recently and it's suprising how many times I just lose to carriers when I don't have enough vikings. Carriers are useless against bio, but they're so damned good against mech. Same as in BW I feel.
They've always been great against mech. In super late game, make to many vikings to kill the carriers and you die to the 100 warpgates Protoss always has.
There was a great game between Goody and HasuObs some time ago where it ended in a a micro battle of carrier+HT vs Viking+Ghost+making sure you still have a good ground force.
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On August 17 2012 08:11 WolfgangKies wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 07:49 Grumbels wrote:
I don't want to psychoanalyze Day[9], but he has always been passionate about popularizing e-sports. He's invested a lot of effort into things like the after hours gaming league and his daily, things that are not targeted at people that frequent TL and are already 'converted'. This video is obviously meant for general consumption for sites like IGN and gamespot, TL and reddit are simply not the audience. Day[9] could be more nuanced and skeptical, but that's not in his interests. Obviously, intelligent commentary suffers for these things and it's a fair criticism, but I don't think there's enough evidence to say that Day[9] has sold out. Don't get me wrong, I don't say day9 has "sold out" or anything along those lines, and I carry no hate whatsoever towards him, but it should be clear to everyone that this "battle report" is basically just an ad for hots. And there is nothing wrong with that, if someone is willing to stand behind a certain product (and maybe gets paid for it) it is totally ok but don't try to "sell" it as some kind of i guess "battle report". Just call it "the new hots ad featuring day9"
But it was a 2 player battle. It is correct to call it a battle report.
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On August 17 2012 09:05 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 08:30 Qikz wrote:On August 17 2012 08:13 Protein wrote:
Now, Ima let you finish but...
If that army had been caught without anti air (or 3 vikings) by 4 carriers, it'd be gone.
Tempest needs to go. now. I've been playing mech in TvP recently and it's suprising how many times I just lose to carriers when I don't have enough vikings. Carriers are useless against bio, but they're so damned good against mech. Same as in BW I feel. They've always been great against mech. In super late game, make to many vikings to kill the carriers and you die to the 100 warpgates Protoss always has. There was a great game between Goody and HasuObs some time ago where it ended in a a micro battle of carrier+HT vs Viking+Ghost+making sure you still have a good ground force.
Is there a VOD of that game floating around somewhere? I'd very much enjoy seeing those two duke it out like that.
I've never heard any actual pro say that carriers weren't viable. Quite the opposite in fact; they are not only viable, but desirable to get for lategame, a zeal/archon/immortal/ht/ms/carrier like composition which is nearly untouchable and very powerful. The problem just lies in getting there; no one has quite figured out how to do it without dying beforehand.
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On August 17 2012 09:23 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 09:05 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 17 2012 08:30 Qikz wrote:On August 17 2012 08:13 Protein wrote:
Now, Ima let you finish but...
If that army had been caught without anti air (or 3 vikings) by 4 carriers, it'd be gone.
Tempest needs to go. now. I've been playing mech in TvP recently and it's suprising how many times I just lose to carriers when I don't have enough vikings. Carriers are useless against bio, but they're so damned good against mech. Same as in BW I feel. They've always been great against mech. In super late game, make to many vikings to kill the carriers and you die to the 100 warpgates Protoss always has. There was a great game between Goody and HasuObs some time ago where it ended in a a micro battle of carrier+HT vs Viking+Ghost+making sure you still have a good ground force. Is there a VOD of that game floating around somewhere? I'd very much enjoy seeing those two duke it out like that. I've never heard any actual pro say that carriers weren't viable. Quite the opposite in fact; they are not only viable, but desirable to get for lategame, a zeal/archon/immortal/ht/ms/carrier like composition which is nearly untouchable and very powerful. The problem just lies in getting there; no one has quite figured out how to do it without dying beforehand.
Part 2 of that game
+ Show Spoiler +
EDIT: i'm not sure if that's the one but there are other vods on youtube with mech and carriers, the terran is usualy goody :p
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On August 17 2012 08:58 captainwaffles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 07:51 Shiori wrote:On August 17 2012 06:03 captainwaffles wrote:
Oh man, I seriously can not wait until the beta! I am going to relish in protoss tears as their 1a, 1 control group deathball marches into mine and mine wins, its going to be unbelievably sweet to hear the cry's of imba they have so long denied "oh you just need to micro better" I'll say as I steal their ladder points all the way to the bank.
Seriously the current design of the match up (TvP) is complete shit, the way they force terran players to play makes me so angry. Just be better than your oppoent and have better control and multitasking and its fine! But equal skill and all hell breaks loose. And goddamn imagine playing against a protoss that just sits and makes a deathball, its ludicrous when they have half a brain and use warp prisms like Terrans use medivacs. Hate to break this to you, but top Protoss players don't use 1 control group. As usual, you project your own failings in a matchup onto the entire metagame when, in fact, PvT is fine at a high level. Saying to use Warp Prisms like Medivacs just kinda shows you have no clue what you're talking about. Ah no, they use 2 control groups, thats one bigger than 1! Man I don't know what they were teaching me in debate class, I should just wave my hand and is everything is all good and then it will make me seem I'm smart and know what I'm talking about even though I said nothing of actual substance at all! TvP is fine at the top level, I never said it wasn't but at the masters and high master level blizzard themselves have said it was totally bonked (paraphrasing).
Who cares? Zerg is pretty much impossible at a low level until you get injects and timings down, but that doesn't mean the race needs fixing. It means players need to get better. Over time, the average skill level increases. Getting Masters a year ago would probably put you in low Diamond today. Sooner or latter, low and mid Masters players will get over the hump of TvP micro, just as high Masters players did throughout the past several months. High Masters PvT is actually completely fine now, and the complaints for it have died down a tonne because people have just gotten better and gotten past that skill block that existed 8 months ago when Blizzard said what they said.
And by the way: one key for Chargelots/Colossi/bulk of army, another for Stalkers, and another for Templar.
As far as I know, Terran players don't use any more than that unless they're doing drops (which don't really need to be hotkeyed, but some players stylistically choose to).
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On August 17 2012 09:26 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 09:23 Fyrewolf wrote:On August 17 2012 09:05 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 17 2012 08:30 Qikz wrote:On August 17 2012 08:13 Protein wrote:
Now, Ima let you finish but...
If that army had been caught without anti air (or 3 vikings) by 4 carriers, it'd be gone.
Tempest needs to go. now. I've been playing mech in TvP recently and it's suprising how many times I just lose to carriers when I don't have enough vikings. Carriers are useless against bio, but they're so damned good against mech. Same as in BW I feel. They've always been great against mech. In super late game, make to many vikings to kill the carriers and you die to the 100 warpgates Protoss always has. There was a great game between Goody and HasuObs some time ago where it ended in a a micro battle of carrier+HT vs Viking+Ghost+making sure you still have a good ground force. Is there a VOD of that game floating around somewhere? I'd very much enjoy seeing those two duke it out like that. I've never heard any actual pro say that carriers weren't viable. Quite the opposite in fact; they are not only viable, but desirable to get for lategame, a zeal/archon/immortal/ht/ms/carrier like composition which is nearly untouchable and very powerful. The problem just lies in getting there; no one has quite figured out how to do it without dying beforehand. Part 2 of that game + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CFmKRsNOYs
Awesome! They're two of my favorite players to watch, dl now on my currently bad internet to watch later tonight. Thank You! Quickly checked skipping through it, I definately see carriers and ht, so it's prob the right one.
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Northern Ireland25995 Posts
On August 17 2012 09:27 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 08:58 captainwaffles wrote:On August 17 2012 07:51 Shiori wrote:On August 17 2012 06:03 captainwaffles wrote:
Oh man, I seriously can not wait until the beta! I am going to relish in protoss tears as their 1a, 1 control group deathball marches into mine and mine wins, its going to be unbelievably sweet to hear the cry's of imba they have so long denied "oh you just need to micro better" I'll say as I steal their ladder points all the way to the bank.
Seriously the current design of the match up (TvP) is complete shit, the way they force terran players to play makes me so angry. Just be better than your oppoent and have better control and multitasking and its fine! But equal skill and all hell breaks loose. And goddamn imagine playing against a protoss that just sits and makes a deathball, its ludicrous when they have half a brain and use warp prisms like Terrans use medivacs. Hate to break this to you, but top Protoss players don't use 1 control group. As usual, you project your own failings in a matchup onto the entire metagame when, in fact, PvT is fine at a high level. Saying to use Warp Prisms like Medivacs just kinda shows you have no clue what you're talking about. Ah no, they use 2 control groups, thats one bigger than 1! Man I don't know what they were teaching me in debate class, I should just wave my hand and is everything is all good and then it will make me seem I'm smart and know what I'm talking about even though I said nothing of actual substance at all! TvP is fine at the top level, I never said it wasn't but at the masters and high master level blizzard themselves have said it was totally bonked (paraphrasing). Who cares? Zerg is pretty much impossible at a low level until you get injects and timings down, but that doesn't mean the race needs fixing. It means players need to get better. Over time, the average skill level increases. Getting Masters a year ago would probably put you in low Diamond today. Sooner or latter, low and mid Masters players will get over the hump of TvP micro, just as high Masters players did throughout the past several months. High Masters PvT is actually completely fine now, and the complaints for it have died down a tonne because people have just gotten better and gotten past that skill block that existed 8 months ago when Blizzard said what they said. And by the way: one key for Chargelots/Colossi/bulk of army, another for Stalkers, and another for Templar. As far as I know, Terran players don't use any more than that unless they're doing drops (which don't really need to be hotkeyed, but some players stylistically choose to).
Yeah I pretty much hotkey everything but templars on my main army, hotkey blink stalkers on an additional hotkey, and have templars on 3. Seems to work pretty well, putting templar on the same key as your sentries is asking for trouble, and having stalkers both with your ball, and on an independent hotkey is handy for positioning them to snipe vikings, or allows them to saunter off and harass elsewhere if you get the chance to
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Northern Ireland25995 Posts
Also that Goody vs Hasu game is pretty relevant to the thread I feel.
While it's super non-standard and epic precisely because of that, I think that's the kind of gameplay that Blizzard SHOULD be trying to create with HoTS. Also damnit, wish I'd got a chance to play when Amulet was still in the game
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EPT
