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On August 15 2012 16:52 Snowbear wrote:The only reason why so many people quit starcraft 2 is because it's too hard to be good for them. Meanwhile there is League of Legends, where it is hard to NOT be good. Starcraft 2 is a game you play alone, so if you lose it's YOUR mistake. In league of legends it's the mistake of your teammates  . Another note is that starcraft 2 is watchable for people that don't know the game. Meanwhile League of Legends is only watchable if you know the game. A very good esport title, isn't it?
no wrong, the reason is that LoL is at least 4x as much fun than sc2. whoever i added last year is still playing! and that's out of like 40 people.
some of them play not so regularl,y but still do, other sstil lfrequently.
go to sc2, ladder, add 5 cool dudes.
play for months and look... about 5 months later... who is still left of those 5 cool dudes? probably not even one.
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The Warhound seems to be the most controversial new unit. I wonder if Blizz looks through these TL threads to see community reactions?
Poll: First impressions of the Warhound in TvPAwful (145) 74% Great (18) 9% Bad (17) 9% Good (8) 4% Neutral (8) 4% 196 total votes Your vote: First impressions of the Warhound in TvP (Vote): Great
(Vote): Good
(Vote): Neutral
(Vote): Bad
(Vote): Awful
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On August 15 2012 21:38 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 16:52 Snowbear wrote:The only reason why so many people quit starcraft 2 is because it's too hard to be good for them. Meanwhile there is League of Legends, where it is hard to NOT be good. Starcraft 2 is a game you play alone, so if you lose it's YOUR mistake. In league of legends it's the mistake of your teammates . Another note is that starcraft 2 is watchable for people that don't know the game. Meanwhile League of Legends is only watchable if you know the game. A very good esport title, isn't it? no wrong, the reason is that LoL is at least 4x as much fun than sc2. whoever i added last year is still playing! and that's out of like 40 people. some of them play not so regularl,y but still do, other sstil lfrequently. go to sc2, ladder, add 5 cool dudes. play for months and look... about 5 months later... who is still left of those 5 cool dudes? probably not even one.
When I switched to sc2 last summer I added like 9 guys for practice (found them on TL and ladder) and only one of them is still logging in from time to time, but he seems to be playing teamgames with his friends.
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On August 15 2012 19:36 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 19:35 CuSToM wrote:
how can anybody take Day9 seriously after this?
"wow the terran has impeccable macro! look at him as he sits on 3k minerals at 160 supply, impeccable!" He had very low gas.
And a gold expo. So yeah, the macro wasn't "great", but not as horible as some people make it out to be. Could have used more reactored factories for hellion spam though.
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Northern Ireland25159 Posts
On August 15 2012 21:42 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 21:38 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:On August 15 2012 16:52 Snowbear wrote:The only reason why so many people quit starcraft 2 is because it's too hard to be good for them. Meanwhile there is League of Legends, where it is hard to NOT be good. Starcraft 2 is a game you play alone, so if you lose it's YOUR mistake. In league of legends it's the mistake of your teammates . Another note is that starcraft 2 is watchable for people that don't know the game. Meanwhile League of Legends is only watchable if you know the game. A very good esport title, isn't it? no wrong, the reason is that LoL is at least 4x as much fun than sc2. whoever i added last year is still playing! and that's out of like 40 people. some of them play not so regularl,y but still do, other sstil lfrequently. go to sc2, ladder, add 5 cool dudes. play for months and look... about 5 months later... who is still left of those 5 cool dudes? probably not even one. When I switched to sc2 last summer I added like 9 guys for practice (found them on TL and ladder) and only one of them is still logging in from time to time, but he seems to be playing teamgames with his friends.
It takes a certain mentality to enjoy Starcraft, at least in the 1v1 ladder. Not shitting on people who don't enjoy it either, but it's like comparing Call of Duty with competitive Counterstrike. Yeah they're both games but they cater to different sets of people
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On August 15 2012 21:46 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 21:42 Gosi wrote:On August 15 2012 21:38 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:On August 15 2012 16:52 Snowbear wrote:The only reason why so many people quit starcraft 2 is because it's too hard to be good for them. Meanwhile there is League of Legends, where it is hard to NOT be good. Starcraft 2 is a game you play alone, so if you lose it's YOUR mistake. In league of legends it's the mistake of your teammates . Another note is that starcraft 2 is watchable for people that don't know the game. Meanwhile League of Legends is only watchable if you know the game. A very good esport title, isn't it? no wrong, the reason is that LoL is at least 4x as much fun than sc2. whoever i added last year is still playing! and that's out of like 40 people. some of them play not so regularl,y but still do, other sstil lfrequently. go to sc2, ladder, add 5 cool dudes. play for months and look... about 5 months later... who is still left of those 5 cool dudes? probably not even one. When I switched to sc2 last summer I added like 9 guys for practice (found them on TL and ladder) and only one of them is still logging in from time to time, but he seems to be playing teamgames with his friends. It takes a certain mentality to enjoy Starcraft, at least in the 1v1 ladder. Not shitting on people who don't enjoy it either, but it's like comparing Call of Duty with competitive Counterstrike. Yeah they're both games but they cater to different sets of people
Yup, but CS works a bit like LoL too when it comes to the "casualness". If you are 5 friends or more it can be fun as hell to play some 5v5 scrims or Gather with each other from time to time. It's that social thing...
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Northern Ireland25159 Posts
On August 15 2012 21:49 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 21:46 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 15 2012 21:42 Gosi wrote:On August 15 2012 21:38 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:On August 15 2012 16:52 Snowbear wrote:The only reason why so many people quit starcraft 2 is because it's too hard to be good for them. Meanwhile there is League of Legends, where it is hard to NOT be good. Starcraft 2 is a game you play alone, so if you lose it's YOUR mistake. In league of legends it's the mistake of your teammates . Another note is that starcraft 2 is watchable for people that don't know the game. Meanwhile League of Legends is only watchable if you know the game. A very good esport title, isn't it? no wrong, the reason is that LoL is at least 4x as much fun than sc2. whoever i added last year is still playing! and that's out of like 40 people. some of them play not so regularl,y but still do, other sstil lfrequently. go to sc2, ladder, add 5 cool dudes. play for months and look... about 5 months later... who is still left of those 5 cool dudes? probably not even one. When I switched to sc2 last summer I added like 9 guys for practice (found them on TL and ladder) and only one of them is still logging in from time to time, but he seems to be playing teamgames with his friends. It takes a certain mentality to enjoy Starcraft, at least in the 1v1 ladder. Not shitting on people who don't enjoy it either, but it's like comparing Call of Duty with competitive Counterstrike. Yeah they're both games but they cater to different sets of people Yup, but CS works a bit like LoL too when it comes to the "casualness". If you are 5 friends or more it can be fun as hell to play some 5v5 scrims or Gather with each other from time to time. It's that social thing...
True for sure, I was merely looking for two games that had that kind of clear divide between casual/hardcore players making up their playerbase! I know what I'm talking about with CoD given how much I wasted of my life playing it, horrible community.
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Guys, to be perfectly honest, what I've seen of HOTS makes me want to kill myself with a rusty box cutter.
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Interesting report, although it was rather obvious the players were not playing at pro level.
Given that they were likely forced to show off the new units, it made it a bit of a weird game to watch.
The main things I currently have noticed (I play Terran) after seeing the report:
The Mothership Core cannon feels like a rush immunity gimmick. Not only does it do 60 damage but it has 13 range.
Protoss could bait an attack to get near the Nexus and then switch it on. For me it feels like the stakes/risks for an attack have suddenly gone up by a ton as I have to be prepared to fight a Mothership Core. Even though it only lasts 20 seconds, with 13 range it can be hard to retreat and retreating is the last thing I want to do when I'm attacking early on.
I don't know if it has a cooldown but if Protoss saves his energy he could activate it twice in a row.
Recall will give Protoss the ability to really harass an expansion or mineral line and not lose a lot of units.
A counter-attack right after a Recall might have some potential as Purify is not available and the army will be at the Core's location.
Defensively Recall could also be very powerful, instantly bringing back the army to defend, which is something I'm not really happy with as I feel Protoss already has the best harass defense in the game. (Warp-ins, Cannons that can target air and ground)
The Tempest with 22 range feels just plain weird.
On one side I feel 22 range is just waiting to be exploited but the relative low DPS may balance this out a bit.
I'm curious how Tempest/Phoenix will fare against Terran as Vikings are the only response that Terran has.
Everything else (Marines, Thors) can't follow or hit a Tempest in time.
The Oracle felt really really powerful in the game shown.
Charge it up and just plain up deny Terran an income for a while.
Obviously you do need to get a Stargate and build a unit that can't shoot but if a single Oracle can do that I shudder to think what a turtling Protoss using multiple Oracles can do to my income.
The two minute vision ability is another bit of a mystery.
Protoss already has the best scouting available in the form of the Observer.
From the Stargate you already have a Phoenix which can scout just as good.
At least a Phoenix/Obsever can be shot down but a two minute garantueed vision (Scan is only seconds and costs a Mule) feels very powerful scouting. Hopefully Blizzard will make it so you can see which building is giving Vision so that Terran can react to it.
Cloaking Field feels fine at the moment. I could throw down a Scan, focus fire the Oracle or get a Missile Turret (which I may be inclined to get if I scout a Stargate).
Which brings me to my main issue, Mech's continued lack of proper AA.
If only the Warhound could shoot up but alas, the Thor's AA remains the only AA available to Mech.
Given the emphasis on Protoss Air in HotS, Mech feels even more vulnerable to Air than it does in WoL.
Terran is forced to get Vikings which cut into Mech production quite a bit since you'll have to Reactor the Starport.
I wonder how said Vikings would do if Protoss brings a decent number of Phoenixes.
Battle Hellion does seem nice as Chargelots feel like such a bane in TvP currently, especially against Mech.
Haven't really decided on the Widow Mine yet, I need to see more of it being properly used first.
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anyone else fears the release of hots? 
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On August 15 2012 22:05 WeRRa wrote:anyone else fears the release of hots?
Dude what is there to be afraid of, its just a game. If Blizzard fuvk it up they will still get their sales, but after a few months the players move onto other stuff, its nothing new.
Its people like Day9 who need to be afraid and the players, cause if the community move on then they may have to quit and move onto making a living from more mundane jobs
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On August 15 2012 20:29 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 20:19 Dragar wrote:On August 15 2012 20:06 NATO wrote:On August 15 2012 19:36 Qikz wrote:On August 15 2012 19:35 CuSToM wrote:
how can anybody take Day9 seriously after this?
"wow the terran has impeccable macro! look at him as he sits on 3k minerals at 160 supply, impeccable!" He had very low gas. If you've ever played mech you'll realise on 3 base unless you waste a load of money into more command centers straight away you'll be building a high mineral bank already. That early on in the game it's not worth getting a lot of hellions as you need your factories to be producing tanks and thors in TvP. It's not until you get your fourth base you can start adding and flooding with factories for hellions. Exactly. That's like making fun of a max zerg for having 3000 minerals and 200/200 army. They don't want to waste supply on lings! It's not the same. The good zerg players use their mineral stockpile - more bases (for more gas), walls of spines, macro hatches, or throwaway ling attacks. And if they are maxed, a zerg wants a mineral stockpile for a ling/roach remax after a huge engagement. It's just poor macro from the Terran - he could have thrown down a few barracks and used them as spotters in airspace, for instance. Not a bad idea given oracles or warp prisms are about! Or used 40 marines to take another base early for more gas, and then thrown them away, resulting in a 200/200 mech army a lot quicker. So yeah, 3000 minerals is poor play, mech or not. Have you played Mech in TvP in SC2 yet? There's plenty of people who do and plenty of people who would disagree with what you just said. You don't need spotting barracks as the sensor tower exists. You can use barracks walls but they're not as useful against protoss as they are against zerg as immortals just rip through them, turrets are good, but there's no need for massive turret rings at that point in the game and you can't race for bases like zerg can. You have to slow push to your bases and having 40 unupgraded marines won't make that any faster. Also, that map was pretty awful for mech defense wise.
Lol having 3k minerals at that game was a mistake. He should have build a ton more hellions to harass the shit out of the toss. Honestly both players looked terrible, and it was an awfull game. Was this really the TvP Blizzard wanted to show us?
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Mech in HoTs will be horribly easy to control. I watched it...
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Northern Ireland25159 Posts
On August 15 2012 22:13 Topdoller wrote:Dude what is there to be afraid of, its just a game. If Blizzard fuvk it up they will still get their sales, but after a few months the players move onto other stuff, its nothing new. Its people like Day9 who need to be afraid and the players, cause if the community move on then they may have to quit and move onto making a living from more mundane jobs
Because, unless I'm mistaken Starcraft is one of the few games of its type, that places an emphasis on the mechanical side of RTS. If it tanks there's not much on the market to play for a fan of a game of this style.
I do enjoy other styles of RTS, and if similar games to SC exist that I'm unaware of I'd be interested to hear of them
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The only reason why I play blizzard games is because I know no other games like starcraft or warcraft.
And because blizzard used to give pure quality stuff (eventually).
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I wonder if there will be a backlash and GSL and other such places may consider simply not moving to HoTS?
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This is frighteningly underwhelming. As if destructible rocks weren't enough, they are giving us DOUBLE destructive rocks. The design of the units hasn't changed at all really, which is worrying because they are as far from being good now as they were the last the last time we saw them like a year ago. The oracle and the Warhound are among the lamest units in the arsenal, and the rest are not much to write home about either. With that said I do actually like the Tempest/Observer mechanic as well the Widow mine which has the potential to become a worthy successor to the Spider mine.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
I know this sounds silly, but you guys realise this is the same build they showed off last year at Blizzcon right?
It's not a new build at all.
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On August 15 2012 18:19 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 13:50 Empirimancer wrote:
Hey, cheer up guys, HOTS may screw up the game, but the single-player will be pretty cool.
Did you play StarCraft 1, Warcraft 3 and then SC2? Because if you did, I'm not sure you should be saying that,...
Starcraft 1: build base + units, destroy everything on the map
Brood War: Build base + units, destroy everything on the map
Warcraft 3: build base + units, destroy everything on the map
TFT: build base + units, destroy everything on the map
WoL: a rather large variation of missions, some of which included collecting stuff, guarding stuff, destroying stuff, or a combination of both.
In terms of RTS campaign design, WoL is pretty much the best game out there.
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Still not a fan of the war hound look and feel... I did however like the destructible rock towers.
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EPT
