EPTWin in the first 15 minutes or you've lost
Call To Action: Balance Testing TvZ. - Page 72
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101toss
3232 Posts
Win in the first 15 minutes or you've lost | ||
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BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
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lullaby
27 Posts
First it was Zergs crying about balance and terran was all over the place with some retarded instructions on how to improve your play as a zerg Now it's the Terrans crying about balance and zergs are all over the place with giving some retarded hints. To be brutally honest if you don't compete at grandmaster, it is YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM for DOING SOME STUPID MISTAKES in your play that KEEPS YOU FROM BEATING your opponent. Just stop crying and better spent the time you take to dry your tears, to actually improve. The next patch WILL come and we are all aware that this patch was in favor of zerg whilst at the beginning of the game, the gameplay was in favor of terrans. So check if you got some balls hanging between your legs and start practicing instead of bitching around.... Ah and by the way if I'm going to get permanently banned, it was fucking worth it User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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JonnyREcco
United Kingdom9 Posts
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
On August 17 2012 12:33 JonnyREcco wrote: This patch is acually quite stupid when terrans who just expand everywhere while denying zerg getting over 5 bases with drops and small bio groups and then also build ravens on top of that are basically impossible to beat unless they fail at splitting their units or run all their vikings into fungal -_- . I dont understand why the raven needs a buff and creep needs nerfed. Adjust yo play  + Show Spoiler + no offense intended, i know you are a boss | ||
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ArchAngelSC
England706 Posts
On August 17 2012 12:33 JonnyREcco wrote: This patch is acually quite stupid when terrans who just expand everywhere while denying zerg getting over 5 bases with drops and small bio groups and then also build ravens on top of that are basically impossible to beat unless they fail at splitting their units or run all their vikings into fungal -_- . I dont understand why the raven needs a buff and creep needs nerfed. How many maps even HAVE more than 5 bases each?...... -.- If terran has that much supply tied up in that many drops supposedly denying all those bases out on the map, just go and kill them lol. Ravens need a buff that'll actually make them viable units. | ||
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pyrostat
Korea (South)70 Posts
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pyrostat
Korea (South)70 Posts
On August 17 2012 12:51 ArchAngelSC wrote: How many maps even HAVE more than 5 bases each?...... -.- If terran has that much supply tied up in that many drops supposedly denying all those bases out on the map, just go and kill them lol. Ravens need a buff that'll actually make them viable units. have you watched tvz nestea vs mvp? Zergs need to have food tied in supply on zerglings to defend against the multiple drops, which if they don't will lose, as well as drones to keep up in income whereas terrans don't need marines and scvs, if any to mine gas, at all. | ||
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BadgKat
United States156 Posts
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
On August 17 2012 12:53 pyrostat wrote: have you watched tvz nestea vs mvp? Zergs need to have food tied in supply on zerglings to defend against the multiple drops, which if they don't will lose, as well as drones to keep up in income whereas terrans don't need marines and scvs, if any to mine gas, at all. Or ya know, put a couple spines around each expansion. Kind of what protoss does with cannons. | ||
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JonnyREcco
United Kingdom9 Posts
On August 17 2012 12:51 ArchAngelSC wrote: How many maps even HAVE more than 5 bases each?...... -.- If terran has that much supply tied up in that many drops supposedly denying all those bases out on the map, just go and kill them lol. Ravens need a buff that'll actually make them viable units. Yeah terran has 140 supply invested into dropping.. no you cant just go kill terran especially if there sitting on a pf . You can trade ok with a terran army with 3-3 ups . But when they expand everywhere and have mules terran economy is insane and the time you get to the pf theres already rallied reinforcements tanks etc that you can just push into and kill. You also cant deal with a pf effectivaly if you try and kill 1 your going to have a ton of bio shred your army while the pf gets repaired, and spines are also pretty useless to stop 3-3 bio aswell. Also its not even the drops killing bases, until you have t3 ultra or bl you cant hold onto bases at the front so your sitting on 3-4 base while terran has 5 with mules aswell. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
3020 Posts
On August 15 2012 07:44 101toss wrote: Haven't people realized Terran is the garen of sc2? Win in the first 15 minutes or you've lost Thank you for helping me realize this. | ||
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ArchAngelSC
England706 Posts
On August 17 2012 13:09 JonnyREcco wrote: Yeah terran has 140 supply invested into dropping.. no you cant just go kill terran especially if there sitting on a pf . You can trade ok with a terran army with 3-3 ups . But when they expand everywhere and have mules terran economy is insane and the time you get to the pf theres already rallied reinforcements tanks etc that you can just push into and kill. You also cant deal with a pf effectivaly if you try and kill 1 your going to have a ton of bio shred your army while the pf gets repaired, and spines are also pretty useless to stop 3-3 bio aswell. Also its not even the drops killing bases, until you have t3 ultra or bl you cant hold onto bases at the front so your sitting on 3-4 base while terran has 5 with mules aswell. The point in the game you're talking about both races should be on 3-3 with zerg on T3. With the way you worded it the terran has at least 30 supply out in drops which means you can trade amazingly well with a terran army. Don't attack into a PF... I can't think of a single map (there may be one, I just can't think of it) where you only have one attack route that would be likely to have a PF at. If a terran is expanding so fast they're on 5 bases to your 3 then they have sacrificed a lot of unit producing capabilities. You should be able to tell if they're going for mass expanding and so again, just go and kill them with your superior production. Before you respond with "you can't go and kill them if they're sitting behind siege tanks". If that's the case, then it should be easy to deny their expos while expanding yourself. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On August 17 2012 13:27 ArchAngelSC wrote: The point in the game you're talking about both races should be on 3-3 with zerg on T3. With the way you worded it the terran has at least 30 supply out in drops which means you can trade amazingly well with a terran army. Don't attack into a PF... I can't think of a single map (there may be one, I just can't think of it) where you only have one attack route that would be likely to have a PF at. If a terran is expanding so fast they're on 5 bases to your 3 then they have sacrificed a lot of unit producing capabilities. You should be able to tell if they're going for mass expanding and so again, just go and kill them with your superior production. Before you respond with "you can't go and kill them if they're sitting behind siege tanks". If that's the case, then it should be easy to deny their expos while expanding yourself. The map you are trying to think of is Metropolis. Probably the only map where getting 5 bases and PF in the middle is actually viable as a terran. Problem is, with the map, terrans have to try to play split map because being aggressive in the middle game is so difficult on that map. | ||
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JonnyREcco
United Kingdom9 Posts
On August 17 2012 13:27 ArchAngelSC wrote: The point in the game you're talking about both races should be on 3-3 with zerg on T3. With the way you worded it the terran has at least 30 supply out in drops which means you can trade amazingly well with a terran army. Don't attack into a PF... I can't think of a single map (there may be one, I just can't think of it) where you only have one attack route that would be likely to have a PF at. If a terran is expanding so fast they're on 5 bases to your 3 then they have sacrificed a lot of unit producing capabilities. You should be able to tell if they're going for mass expanding and so again, just go and kill them with your superior production. Before you respond with "you can't go and kill them if they're sitting behind siege tanks". If that's the case, then it should be easy to deny their expos while expanding yourself. Its really cute that you think terran cant expand alot and have massive production lol. I dont think you get that when terran timing attack hits its the full 140 supply with maybe 8 in a medevac going to main or something and the terran doesn't always have 30 supply out in medevacs denying bases, they go out deny a base and die and then is instantly remaxed into the main army with terrans insane economy , and if terran is equal upgrades you cant trade anywhere near effectavly when they have triple factory producing tanks , thats if you go ultra , if you go bl then for example a map like daybreak you'll just lose the 4th and 5th base without being able to hold it which then turns into terran being on 5 base to your 3. every single base the terran takes after their third is a PF so theres no way to deny terrans bases without his bio running up behind you while he repairs it like I said before. and yes "you can't go and kill them if they're sitting behind siege tanks" Why would you think its possible to deny bases when if you go BL its slow as hell and they just counter or if you go ultra the terrans bio tank army trades so effectivly. If you want some replays to prove that 2-2/3-3 ultra ling infestor is terrible against bio tank i'll be happy to give some replays to prove how bad it acually is. This is all assuming the terran can acually spread his army and doesn't stupidly get everything fungaled to death on the first timing push to presure. | ||
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ArchAngelSC
England706 Posts
On August 17 2012 13:40 JonnyREcco wrote: Its really cute that you think terran cant expand alot and have massive production lol. I dont think you get that when terran timing attack hits its the full 140 supply with maybe 8 in a medevac going to main or something and the terran doesn't always have 30 supply out in medevacs denying bases, they go out deny a base and die and then is instantly remaxed into the main army with terrans insane economy , and if terran is equal upgrades you cant trade anywhere near effectavly when they have triple factory producing tanks , thats if you go ultra , if you go bl then for example a map like daybreak you'll just lose the 4th and 5th base without being able to hold it which then turns into terran being on 5 base to your 3. every single base the terran takes after their third is a PF so theres no way to deny terrans bases without his bio running up behind you while he repairs it like I said before. and yes "you can't go and kill them if they're sitting behind siege tanks" Why would you think its possible to deny bases when if you go BL its slow as hell and they just counter or if you go ultra the terrans bio tank army trades so effectivly. If you want some replays to prove that 2-2/3-3 ultra ling infestor is terrible against bio tank i'll be happy to give some replays to prove how bad it acually is. This is all assuming the terran can acually spread his army and doesn't stupidly get everything fungaled to death on the first timing push to presure. Okay you keep switching up what you're talking about. You use a mid game example to prove your earlier point about late game and then you use a late game army comp when talking about a mid game situation ... I'll take this time to clear some things up. Earlier when you talked about terran denying bases everywhere I assumed you meant they had multiple drops out on the field, which is why I suggested you just go and kill them. Then as a counter argument you say that terran timing attacks hit with the full 140 supply, which has absolutely zero relevance to what we were actually talking about. If all they have is a single medivac out trying to deny a base then it's fairly easy to shut down, especially since most terrans dont build a viking to deny overlord scouting. And if you're on a maxed BL infestor army and losing 2 bases before getting to the terrans army... well I don't really know what to tell you then, but you have some serious issues in your game play that you're going to need to sort out, like scouting. When you talked about terran being on 5 bases to zergs 3 I didn't realise you were counting on the aforementioned losing of the 5th and 4th zerg bases. As that's not really a realistic situation I assumed you meant the terran was straight up expanding to 5 bases in the time it takes the zerg to take 3. In which case, yes, the terran is sacrificing a lot of unit producing capability in order to do this. Yes the income will make up for it later, but at the point when they're expanding (which you should know about) the expos will not be immediate PFs and your production will be much better. At this point in the game you don't have to worry about your slow BL army because you won't have it yet. In actual fact the terran army is a lot less mobile than zergs allowing you easy denial of baseage. | ||
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Eps
Canada240 Posts
On another note, it's been quite some time now - and there hasn't been any updates from Blizzard yet. Testing time was stated to be around Aug 6-10th. | ||
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
On August 17 2012 13:40 JonnyREcco wrote: Its really cute that you think terran cant expand alot and have massive production lol. I dont think you get that when terran timing attack hits its the full 140 supply with maybe 8 in a medevac going to main or something and the terran doesn't always have 30 supply out in medevacs denying bases, they go out deny a base and die and then is instantly remaxed into the main army with terrans insane economy , and if terran is equal upgrades you cant trade anywhere near effectavly when they have triple factory producing tanks , thats if you go ultra , if you go bl then for example a map like daybreak you'll just lose the 4th and 5th base without being able to hold it which then turns into terran being on 5 base to your 3. every single base the terran takes after their third is a PF so theres no way to deny terrans bases without his bio running up behind you while he repairs it like I said before. and yes "you can't go and kill them if they're sitting behind siege tanks" Why would you think its possible to deny bases when if you go BL its slow as hell and they just counter or if you go ultra the terrans bio tank army trades so effectivly. If you want some replays to prove that 2-2/3-3 ultra ling infestor is terrible against bio tank i'll be happy to give some replays to prove how bad it acually is. This is all assuming the terran can acually spread his army and doesn't stupidly get everything fungaled to death on the first timing push to presure. A terran on 5 base runs on 8-10 barracks (lets say 9, 5 reactor, 4 techlab = 1800/350), at least 2 factories (400/125) and 3 starports (2 reactor, 1 techlab = 600/425), not to forget the investment of 2 OC and 2 PF which run together at 2200/300, so we have infrastructure costs of 5000/1200. The Zerg on the other hand to get to 5 bases needs 5 hatcheries (includes 1 macro hatch 1750 min), 5 queens (750) his main hatch to hive (350/250), a pool (250), a baneling nest (150/50), an infestation pit (150/100) and a greater spire (350/350) which results in costs of 3750/750. So the zerg has a resource advantage of 1250/450 even if he was only on equal income with the terran (which is a good scenario for terran. Now... you mix and twist your scenarios however you need it.. but to get to 5 vs 3 bases there are 3 ways: 1) Both expanded to 5 bases and got into late game. Then the terran killed 2 of your bases. Given your 1250/450 resource advantage, you could afford to keep 1 infestor and 1 spore and 2 spines and a queen at your 3rd, 4th and 5th - which is enough to prevent snipes even with 2 medivacs while your main army covers the approach to your main and natural. So if you didn't invest your extra resources in defense and failed to spot and defend drops with your main army (which btw you CAN split, too!) you deserve to lose. 2) The terran expanded to 5 bases in the time the Zerg took 3. In this case the zerg saves resources on the hive, the greater spire (you aren't that far with tech), 2 hatches and a queen. That increases the natural resource lead by 1400/500 to a massive 2650/950. Transform this into units and just kill the terran. Sieged tanks may be cost effective on defense, but not THAT cost effective. They can hold off an equal value zerg army or ling/bling/infestor but not one that has an additional 68 lings plus 38 banes. 3) The terran expands to 5 bases in the time you expand to 3 AND puts together a deadly 140 supply (I take it army supply) push with superior upgrades. In this case, report him to blizzard for resource hacking and get him banned. Or you took 18 minutes to take you 3rd in this case - welcome to silver league. | ||
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Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
Raven speed buff would be pretty good without creep tumor nerf though. | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On August 17 2012 16:22 Thrombozyt wrote: Why not use contaminate to prevent the repair and then kill the PF and get out? . contaminate DOESNT prevent repair! | ||
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