• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:40
CET 14:40
KST 22:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy7ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool48Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April WardiTV Team League Season 10
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site Gypsy to Korea mca64Launcher - New Version with StarCraft: Remast BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Soulkey's decision to leave C9
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group A [ASL21] Ro24 Group C
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Darkest Dungeon General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2941 users

Call To Action: Balance Testing TvZ. - Page 27

Forum Index > SC2 General
1619 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 81 Next
Neurosis
Profile Joined October 2010
United States893 Posts
August 09 2012 05:19 GMT
#521
On August 09 2012 13:47 Debian wrote:


It's about the same speed as a medivac until the medivac gets going, even then it's only 10% slower. While that's nice I still don't think this is going to make Ravens any more practical unless for certain situations.


It mostly makes the unit a tad bit more forgiving in the micro department. It's already very hard to split marines, tanks, and medivacs but when you add slow ass ravens to the composition it becomes infinitely harder. Just one good fungal on a clump of ravens and it's over, you just lost an insane amount of gas, time and tech. The speed boost will definitely help imo.
Fuchsteufelswild
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2028 Posts
August 09 2012 05:23 GMT
#522
My only real concern is that spreading creep up and down hills can be really annoying when the cursor for the tumour would be able to be placed anywhere on a hill (i.e. can't actually be placed) but was just one range short of the first tile of flat land above the hill, so you'd have to place it at the bottom of the hill, not using much range of the previous tumour, just to be able to get up the hill, having three in relatively close distance just to climb the hill. Now the first of those will have to be even closer to the hill for the third to get up the hill. :S
It's just going to make climbing cliffs very tedious and will feel energy inefficient.
ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!
Lecan93
Profile Joined October 2011
Finland17 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:29:10
August 09 2012 05:28 GMT
#523
What i would love as a raven change is that seeker missile would be 100 energy with appropriate cooldown (about 10s?) because you can then use other spells more or just wait for the cooldown and cast new missile. I think it would give raven much more versitile role in battle. Also the ability to cast PDD and missile at the same time.
stfouri
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland272 Posts
August 09 2012 05:31 GMT
#524
HSM upgrade should also include more starting energy for raven, so it can throw the missile right as it pops.
There might actually be some sick new timings with that kind of buff, tough it might be a bit tad too op .
desarrisc
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Canada226 Posts
August 09 2012 05:36 GMT
#525
Now Ravens can actually outrun unstimmed marines. I really wanted Raven to get a slight hp or armor bonus, but this change seems good too.

And the creep change might make TvZ more watchable at pro levels. I felt that uncontrolled creep spread on map like ohana in little as 17 in-game minutes was a bit too strong.
"Your opponent's doing anything out of the ordinary? Just go f**king kill him." -Day [9]
shockaslim
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1105 Posts
August 09 2012 05:36 GMT
#526
I remember for a really long time Jinro was saying that they needed to fix the acceleration and speed of the Raven to make it a bit more useful. Looks like Blizzard liked his tips?
Dirty Deeds...DONE DIRT CHEAP!!!
densha
Profile Joined December 2010
United States797 Posts
August 09 2012 05:40 GMT
#527
The Raven buff I can agree with, but that's it. I feel any kind of fundamental change to TvZ concerning creep/queens is still too soon after the previous buffs. Korean Terrans are paving the way in figuring out TvZ and we can already see the results of that in recent matches.
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.
Space Invader
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia291 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:47:34
August 09 2012 05:47 GMT
#528
creep change is just a reaction to the recent queen buff. queens are much more useful now, people make a lot more of them, suddenly zergs are covering maps in creep. it really doesn't change much
I may be of thome athithtanthe if there ith a thudden crithith!
iTzSnypah
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1738 Posts
August 09 2012 05:47 GMT
#529
On August 09 2012 14:31 stfouri wrote:
HSM upgrade should also include more starting energy for raven, so it can throw the missile right as it pops.
There might actually be some sick new timings with that kind of buff, tough it might be a bit tad too op .

I would rather have HSM not needing an upgrade and the HSM upgrade making HSM cost 100 energy instead of 125.
Team Liquid needs more Terrans.
DreFTW
Profile Joined September 2010
United States16 Posts
August 09 2012 05:48 GMT
#530
On August 09 2012 14:40 densha wrote:
The Raven buff I can agree with, but that's it. I feel any kind of fundamental change to TvZ concerning creep/queens is still too soon after the previous buffs. Korean Terrans are paving the way in figuring out TvZ and we can already see the results of that in recent matches.

One Terran is doing very well yes, but thats because he is an amazing multi tasker.
Cool Beans
KentHenry
Profile Joined August 2010
United States260 Posts
August 09 2012 05:53 GMT
#531
Would love to see a Range Buff to Seeker Missile like it was back in Beta. Blizzard doesn't need to touch Zerg's creep tumors, especially if Terran is getting Raven buffs. Ravens can help counter creep spreading, I see balance in that. Blizzard just needs to buff Ravens slightly.
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
August 09 2012 05:54 GMT
#532
GSL games this season with seeker missile and raven used:

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67586

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67572/?set=2&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67559/?set=7&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67564/?set=6&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67588/?set=4&lang=
EuroRabbit
Profile Joined November 2011
United States39 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:56:57
August 09 2012 05:54 GMT
#533
Reduction to 8 feels like its to far, it feels much more underwhelming now. Trying to connect your nat to 3rd is a lot more difficult now, and going down ramps and ledges takes 1-2 more creep spawns to get the same tumor were you used to be able to go. It basically slows down creep growth at the start of the game by 50% for the initial two then four tumors if you make 4 queens.
Just enjoying the trees :)
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16121 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:56:00
August 09 2012 05:55 GMT
#534
If anyone has any additional pictures or videos specifically on the creep changes I can add to the OP that'd be great. Already have a couple videos on the Raven speed change.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
KentHenry
Profile Joined August 2010
United States260 Posts
August 09 2012 05:57 GMT
#535
On August 09 2012 14:54 larse wrote:
GSL games this season with seeker missile and raven used:

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67586

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67572/?set=2&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67559/?set=7&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67564/?set=6&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67588/?set=4&lang=


Just quoting Blizzard, a few games showing certain strategies in a certain area (Korea) doesn't depict whether there is balance or imbalance. Also, what did you want to accomplish by showing people these games? Do you think Seeker Missile and Ravens are fine and don't need tweaking. A little substance to your post would be nice, rather than just links I could have googled.
SergioCQH
Profile Joined October 2010
United States143 Posts
August 09 2012 05:58 GMT
#536
So where are the nerfs to Protoss 2 base all ins in PvZ? Pretty much everyone agrees they are a little too powerful, too easy to execute, and too difficult to defend.
X3GoldDot
Profile Joined August 2011
Malaysia3840 Posts
August 09 2012 05:58 GMT
#537
im surprised their going for the creep change rather than only implementing the raven change, since zerg has still been losing to protoss despite winning out against terran, this makes them even with terran and lose out more to protoss. dont see much change in tvp since nobody uses ravens there anyway.
prime/startale/[SexComaZerg, RoyalRoaderZerg, SirLifealot] ingame ID = GoodGame
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 09 2012 06:01 GMT
#538
On August 09 2012 14:58 X3GoldDot wrote:
im surprised their going for the creep change rather than only implementing the raven change, since zerg has still been losing to protoss despite winning out against terran, this makes them even with terran and lose out more to protoss. dont see much change in tvp since nobody uses ravens there anyway.


to be honest the last patch didn't effect zvp that much in terms of queen/creep. Overlord change is nice obviously but that is really the only thing that effects zvp the most. queen makes it so probes can't scout but that's not a big deal as they will scout the third finishing almost no matter what.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
August 09 2012 06:03 GMT
#539
Now remove the building placement requirement for Auto-Turrets so it has a usable energy dump spell and the Raven will actually be extremely good and fun to use.
Aveng3r
Profile Joined February 2012
United States2411 Posts
August 09 2012 06:03 GMT
#540
Im happy to see the changes (doesnt take a genius to figure that i play terran) but I could see the creep tumor thing having some unexpected problem attached to it.. maybe it makes it harder for zergs to connect bases and early protoss timing attacks become harder to deal with... idk.
I carve marble busts of assassinated world leaders - PM for a quote
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 81 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Team League
12:00
Group A + B
WardiTV725
IndyStarCraft 94
musti20045 24
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 210
SortOf 131
ProTech123
IndyStarCraft 103
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 51983
Sea 5145
Bisu 3150
Jaedong 1954
EffOrt 1173
Mini 711
Hyuk 576
Soma 562
BeSt 505
Stork 389
[ Show more ]
ZerO 347
ggaemo 295
Soulkey 270
firebathero 265
Light 239
Rush 238
Snow 227
hero 113
Mind 108
Pusan 86
ToSsGirL 66
Dewaltoss 53
Backho 50
Leta 47
Sea.KH 44
[sc1f]eonzerg 37
Aegong 37
Shinee 32
sorry 30
yabsab 21
Shine 18
Rock 18
Nal_rA 18
GoRush 13
IntoTheRainbow 12
zelot 11
Icarus 9
910 9
Terrorterran 7
eros_byul 1
Dota 2
Gorgc6184
BananaSlamJamma5
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1817
byalli846
edward101
Other Games
FrodaN3665
singsing2052
B2W.Neo1072
Lowko337
crisheroes296
shoxiejesuss224
Fuzer 180
Sick140
XaKoH 113
KnowMe78
oskar49
ArmadaUGS41
ZerO(Twitch)21
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
CasterMuse 16
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• iHatsuTV 16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2102
• Nemesis996
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
3h 21m
Fjant vs SortOf
YoungYakov vs Krystianer
Reynor vs HeRoMaRinE
RSL Revival
20h 21m
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
Platinum Heroes Events
1d 1h
BSL
1d 6h
RSL Revival
1d 20h
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
1d 22h
BSL
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
OSC
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.