• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:54
CET 07:54
KST 15:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)38
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey!
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained
Brood War
General
Bleak Future After Failed ProGaming Career BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Provigil(modafinil) pills Cape Town+27 81 850 2816
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1827 users

Call To Action: Balance Testing TvZ. - Page 27

Forum Index > SC2 General
1619 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 81 Next
Neurosis
Profile Joined October 2010
United States893 Posts
August 09 2012 05:19 GMT
#521
On August 09 2012 13:47 Debian wrote:


It's about the same speed as a medivac until the medivac gets going, even then it's only 10% slower. While that's nice I still don't think this is going to make Ravens any more practical unless for certain situations.


It mostly makes the unit a tad bit more forgiving in the micro department. It's already very hard to split marines, tanks, and medivacs but when you add slow ass ravens to the composition it becomes infinitely harder. Just one good fungal on a clump of ravens and it's over, you just lost an insane amount of gas, time and tech. The speed boost will definitely help imo.
Fuchsteufelswild
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2028 Posts
August 09 2012 05:23 GMT
#522
My only real concern is that spreading creep up and down hills can be really annoying when the cursor for the tumour would be able to be placed anywhere on a hill (i.e. can't actually be placed) but was just one range short of the first tile of flat land above the hill, so you'd have to place it at the bottom of the hill, not using much range of the previous tumour, just to be able to get up the hill, having three in relatively close distance just to climb the hill. Now the first of those will have to be even closer to the hill for the third to get up the hill. :S
It's just going to make climbing cliffs very tedious and will feel energy inefficient.
ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!
Lecan93
Profile Joined October 2011
Finland17 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:29:10
August 09 2012 05:28 GMT
#523
What i would love as a raven change is that seeker missile would be 100 energy with appropriate cooldown (about 10s?) because you can then use other spells more or just wait for the cooldown and cast new missile. I think it would give raven much more versitile role in battle. Also the ability to cast PDD and missile at the same time.
stfouri
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland272 Posts
August 09 2012 05:31 GMT
#524
HSM upgrade should also include more starting energy for raven, so it can throw the missile right as it pops.
There might actually be some sick new timings with that kind of buff, tough it might be a bit tad too op .
desarrisc
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Canada226 Posts
August 09 2012 05:36 GMT
#525
Now Ravens can actually outrun unstimmed marines. I really wanted Raven to get a slight hp or armor bonus, but this change seems good too.

And the creep change might make TvZ more watchable at pro levels. I felt that uncontrolled creep spread on map like ohana in little as 17 in-game minutes was a bit too strong.
"Your opponent's doing anything out of the ordinary? Just go f**king kill him." -Day [9]
shockaslim
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1105 Posts
August 09 2012 05:36 GMT
#526
I remember for a really long time Jinro was saying that they needed to fix the acceleration and speed of the Raven to make it a bit more useful. Looks like Blizzard liked his tips?
Dirty Deeds...DONE DIRT CHEAP!!!
densha
Profile Joined December 2010
United States797 Posts
August 09 2012 05:40 GMT
#527
The Raven buff I can agree with, but that's it. I feel any kind of fundamental change to TvZ concerning creep/queens is still too soon after the previous buffs. Korean Terrans are paving the way in figuring out TvZ and we can already see the results of that in recent matches.
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.
Space Invader
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia291 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:47:34
August 09 2012 05:47 GMT
#528
creep change is just a reaction to the recent queen buff. queens are much more useful now, people make a lot more of them, suddenly zergs are covering maps in creep. it really doesn't change much
I may be of thome athithtanthe if there ith a thudden crithith!
iTzSnypah
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1738 Posts
August 09 2012 05:47 GMT
#529
On August 09 2012 14:31 stfouri wrote:
HSM upgrade should also include more starting energy for raven, so it can throw the missile right as it pops.
There might actually be some sick new timings with that kind of buff, tough it might be a bit tad too op .

I would rather have HSM not needing an upgrade and the HSM upgrade making HSM cost 100 energy instead of 125.
Team Liquid needs more Terrans.
DreFTW
Profile Joined September 2010
United States16 Posts
August 09 2012 05:48 GMT
#530
On August 09 2012 14:40 densha wrote:
The Raven buff I can agree with, but that's it. I feel any kind of fundamental change to TvZ concerning creep/queens is still too soon after the previous buffs. Korean Terrans are paving the way in figuring out TvZ and we can already see the results of that in recent matches.

One Terran is doing very well yes, but thats because he is an amazing multi tasker.
Cool Beans
KentHenry
Profile Joined August 2010
United States260 Posts
August 09 2012 05:53 GMT
#531
Would love to see a Range Buff to Seeker Missile like it was back in Beta. Blizzard doesn't need to touch Zerg's creep tumors, especially if Terran is getting Raven buffs. Ravens can help counter creep spreading, I see balance in that. Blizzard just needs to buff Ravens slightly.
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
August 09 2012 05:54 GMT
#532
GSL games this season with seeker missile and raven used:

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67586

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67572/?set=2&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67559/?set=7&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67564/?set=6&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67588/?set=4&lang=
EuroRabbit
Profile Joined November 2011
United States39 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:56:57
August 09 2012 05:54 GMT
#533
Reduction to 8 feels like its to far, it feels much more underwhelming now. Trying to connect your nat to 3rd is a lot more difficult now, and going down ramps and ledges takes 1-2 more creep spawns to get the same tumor were you used to be able to go. It basically slows down creep growth at the start of the game by 50% for the initial two then four tumors if you make 4 queens.
Just enjoying the trees :)
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16118 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:56:00
August 09 2012 05:55 GMT
#534
If anyone has any additional pictures or videos specifically on the creep changes I can add to the OP that'd be great. Already have a couple videos on the Raven speed change.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
KentHenry
Profile Joined August 2010
United States260 Posts
August 09 2012 05:57 GMT
#535
On August 09 2012 14:54 larse wrote:
GSL games this season with seeker missile and raven used:

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67586

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67572/?set=2&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67559/?set=7&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67564/?set=6&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67588/?set=4&lang=


Just quoting Blizzard, a few games showing certain strategies in a certain area (Korea) doesn't depict whether there is balance or imbalance. Also, what did you want to accomplish by showing people these games? Do you think Seeker Missile and Ravens are fine and don't need tweaking. A little substance to your post would be nice, rather than just links I could have googled.
SergioCQH
Profile Joined October 2010
United States143 Posts
August 09 2012 05:58 GMT
#536
So where are the nerfs to Protoss 2 base all ins in PvZ? Pretty much everyone agrees they are a little too powerful, too easy to execute, and too difficult to defend.
X3GoldDot
Profile Joined August 2011
Malaysia3840 Posts
August 09 2012 05:58 GMT
#537
im surprised their going for the creep change rather than only implementing the raven change, since zerg has still been losing to protoss despite winning out against terran, this makes them even with terran and lose out more to protoss. dont see much change in tvp since nobody uses ravens there anyway.
prime/startale/[SexComaZerg, RoyalRoaderZerg, SirLifealot] ingame ID = GoodGame
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 09 2012 06:01 GMT
#538
On August 09 2012 14:58 X3GoldDot wrote:
im surprised their going for the creep change rather than only implementing the raven change, since zerg has still been losing to protoss despite winning out against terran, this makes them even with terran and lose out more to protoss. dont see much change in tvp since nobody uses ravens there anyway.


to be honest the last patch didn't effect zvp that much in terms of queen/creep. Overlord change is nice obviously but that is really the only thing that effects zvp the most. queen makes it so probes can't scout but that's not a big deal as they will scout the third finishing almost no matter what.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
August 09 2012 06:03 GMT
#539
Now remove the building placement requirement for Auto-Turrets so it has a usable energy dump spell and the Raven will actually be extremely good and fun to use.
Aveng3r
Profile Joined February 2012
United States2411 Posts
August 09 2012 06:03 GMT
#540
Im happy to see the changes (doesnt take a genius to figure that i play terran) but I could see the creep tumor thing having some unexpected problem attached to it.. maybe it makes it harder for zergs to connect bases and early protoss timing attacks become harder to deal with... idk.
I carve marble busts of assassinated world leaders - PM for a quote
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 81 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 6m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech127
SortOf 98
Nina 89
FoxeR 66
StarCraft: Brood War
GoRush 126
Shuttle 59
Bale 31
Icarus 11
Dota 2
XaKoH 483
NeuroSwarm128
League of Legends
JimRising 724
C9.Mang0429
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor88
Other Games
WinterStarcraft595
KnowMe286
Mew2King266
febbydoto31
minikerr21
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1049
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH81
• Sammyuel 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra1392
• Rush1332
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
3h 6m
HomeStory Cup
1d 5h
Korean StarCraft League
1d 20h
HomeStory Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
HomeStory Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-27
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.