• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:47
CEST 19:47
KST 02:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)8[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th156Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners RSL S6 finale at Blizzcon High level ptr replays? where can I find them? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes?
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Does Workplace Frustration D…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8483 users

Call To Action: Balance Testing TvZ. - Page 27

Forum Index > SC2 General
1619 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 81 Next
Neurosis
Profile Joined October 2010
United States893 Posts
August 09 2012 05:19 GMT
#521
On August 09 2012 13:47 Debian wrote:


It's about the same speed as a medivac until the medivac gets going, even then it's only 10% slower. While that's nice I still don't think this is going to make Ravens any more practical unless for certain situations.


It mostly makes the unit a tad bit more forgiving in the micro department. It's already very hard to split marines, tanks, and medivacs but when you add slow ass ravens to the composition it becomes infinitely harder. Just one good fungal on a clump of ravens and it's over, you just lost an insane amount of gas, time and tech. The speed boost will definitely help imo.
Fuchsteufelswild
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2028 Posts
August 09 2012 05:23 GMT
#522
My only real concern is that spreading creep up and down hills can be really annoying when the cursor for the tumour would be able to be placed anywhere on a hill (i.e. can't actually be placed) but was just one range short of the first tile of flat land above the hill, so you'd have to place it at the bottom of the hill, not using much range of the previous tumour, just to be able to get up the hill, having three in relatively close distance just to climb the hill. Now the first of those will have to be even closer to the hill for the third to get up the hill. :S
It's just going to make climbing cliffs very tedious and will feel energy inefficient.
ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!
Lecan93
Profile Joined October 2011
Finland17 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:29:10
August 09 2012 05:28 GMT
#523
What i would love as a raven change is that seeker missile would be 100 energy with appropriate cooldown (about 10s?) because you can then use other spells more or just wait for the cooldown and cast new missile. I think it would give raven much more versitile role in battle. Also the ability to cast PDD and missile at the same time.
stfouri
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland272 Posts
August 09 2012 05:31 GMT
#524
HSM upgrade should also include more starting energy for raven, so it can throw the missile right as it pops.
There might actually be some sick new timings with that kind of buff, tough it might be a bit tad too op .
desarrisc
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Canada226 Posts
August 09 2012 05:36 GMT
#525
Now Ravens can actually outrun unstimmed marines. I really wanted Raven to get a slight hp or armor bonus, but this change seems good too.

And the creep change might make TvZ more watchable at pro levels. I felt that uncontrolled creep spread on map like ohana in little as 17 in-game minutes was a bit too strong.
"Your opponent's doing anything out of the ordinary? Just go f**king kill him." -Day [9]
shockaslim
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1105 Posts
August 09 2012 05:36 GMT
#526
I remember for a really long time Jinro was saying that they needed to fix the acceleration and speed of the Raven to make it a bit more useful. Looks like Blizzard liked his tips?
Dirty Deeds...DONE DIRT CHEAP!!!
densha
Profile Joined December 2010
United States797 Posts
August 09 2012 05:40 GMT
#527
The Raven buff I can agree with, but that's it. I feel any kind of fundamental change to TvZ concerning creep/queens is still too soon after the previous buffs. Korean Terrans are paving the way in figuring out TvZ and we can already see the results of that in recent matches.
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.
Space Invader
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia291 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:47:34
August 09 2012 05:47 GMT
#528
creep change is just a reaction to the recent queen buff. queens are much more useful now, people make a lot more of them, suddenly zergs are covering maps in creep. it really doesn't change much
I may be of thome athithtanthe if there ith a thudden crithith!
iTzSnypah
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1738 Posts
August 09 2012 05:47 GMT
#529
On August 09 2012 14:31 stfouri wrote:
HSM upgrade should also include more starting energy for raven, so it can throw the missile right as it pops.
There might actually be some sick new timings with that kind of buff, tough it might be a bit tad too op .

I would rather have HSM not needing an upgrade and the HSM upgrade making HSM cost 100 energy instead of 125.
Team Liquid needs more Terrans.
DreFTW
Profile Joined September 2010
United States16 Posts
August 09 2012 05:48 GMT
#530
On August 09 2012 14:40 densha wrote:
The Raven buff I can agree with, but that's it. I feel any kind of fundamental change to TvZ concerning creep/queens is still too soon after the previous buffs. Korean Terrans are paving the way in figuring out TvZ and we can already see the results of that in recent matches.

One Terran is doing very well yes, but thats because he is an amazing multi tasker.
Cool Beans
KentHenry
Profile Joined August 2010
United States260 Posts
August 09 2012 05:53 GMT
#531
Would love to see a Range Buff to Seeker Missile like it was back in Beta. Blizzard doesn't need to touch Zerg's creep tumors, especially if Terran is getting Raven buffs. Ravens can help counter creep spreading, I see balance in that. Blizzard just needs to buff Ravens slightly.
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
August 09 2012 05:54 GMT
#532
GSL games this season with seeker missile and raven used:

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67586

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67572/?set=2&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67559/?set=7&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67564/?set=6&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67588/?set=4&lang=
EuroRabbit
Profile Joined November 2011
United States39 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:56:57
August 09 2012 05:54 GMT
#533
Reduction to 8 feels like its to far, it feels much more underwhelming now. Trying to connect your nat to 3rd is a lot more difficult now, and going down ramps and ledges takes 1-2 more creep spawns to get the same tumor were you used to be able to go. It basically slows down creep growth at the start of the game by 50% for the initial two then four tumors if you make 4 queens.
Just enjoying the trees :)
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16122 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:56:00
August 09 2012 05:55 GMT
#534
If anyone has any additional pictures or videos specifically on the creep changes I can add to the OP that'd be great. Already have a couple videos on the Raven speed change.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
KentHenry
Profile Joined August 2010
United States260 Posts
August 09 2012 05:57 GMT
#535
On August 09 2012 14:54 larse wrote:
GSL games this season with seeker missile and raven used:

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67586

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67572/?set=2&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67559/?set=7&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67564/?set=6&lang=

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67588/?set=4&lang=


Just quoting Blizzard, a few games showing certain strategies in a certain area (Korea) doesn't depict whether there is balance or imbalance. Also, what did you want to accomplish by showing people these games? Do you think Seeker Missile and Ravens are fine and don't need tweaking. A little substance to your post would be nice, rather than just links I could have googled.
SergioCQH
Profile Joined October 2010
United States143 Posts
August 09 2012 05:58 GMT
#536
So where are the nerfs to Protoss 2 base all ins in PvZ? Pretty much everyone agrees they are a little too powerful, too easy to execute, and too difficult to defend.
X3GoldDot
Profile Joined August 2011
Malaysia3840 Posts
August 09 2012 05:58 GMT
#537
im surprised their going for the creep change rather than only implementing the raven change, since zerg has still been losing to protoss despite winning out against terran, this makes them even with terran and lose out more to protoss. dont see much change in tvp since nobody uses ravens there anyway.
prime/startale/[SexComaZerg, RoyalRoaderZerg, SirLifealot] ingame ID = GoodGame
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 09 2012 06:01 GMT
#538
On August 09 2012 14:58 X3GoldDot wrote:
im surprised their going for the creep change rather than only implementing the raven change, since zerg has still been losing to protoss despite winning out against terran, this makes them even with terran and lose out more to protoss. dont see much change in tvp since nobody uses ravens there anyway.


to be honest the last patch didn't effect zvp that much in terms of queen/creep. Overlord change is nice obviously but that is really the only thing that effects zvp the most. queen makes it so probes can't scout but that's not a big deal as they will scout the third finishing almost no matter what.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
August 09 2012 06:03 GMT
#539
Now remove the building placement requirement for Auto-Turrets so it has a usable energy dump spell and the Raven will actually be extremely good and fun to use.
Aveng3r
Profile Joined February 2012
United States2411 Posts
August 09 2012 06:03 GMT
#540
Im happy to see the changes (doesnt take a genius to figure that i play terran) but I could see the creep tumor thing having some unexpected problem attached to it.. maybe it makes it harder for zergs to connect bases and early protoss timing attacks become harder to deal with... idk.
I carve marble busts of assassinated world leaders - PM for a quote
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 81 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15:00
Season Finals: Group Stage 2
Serral2125
uThermal1933
RotterdaM1036
TaKeTV 428
mouzHeroMarine280
IndyStarCraft 243
SteadfastSC176
BRAT_OK 117
SHIN 86
LamboSC251
sc2solar22
SpiritSC219
Shameless18
Classic16
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Serral 2125
uThermal 1933
RotterdaM 1036
mouzHeroMarine 280
IndyStarCraft 243
SteadfastSC 176
BRAT_OK 117
SHIN 86
ProTech61
LamboSC2 51
mouzStarbuck 25
sc2solar 22
SpiritSC2 19
Classic 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 22167
Calm 3724
Sea 2098
Mini 120
ggaemo 55
Soulkey 43
Shine 31
Pusan 29
IntoTheRainbow 28
Rock 24
[ Show more ]
Sacsri 22
Noble 5
GoRush 4
Dota 2
qojqva3766
Counter-Strike
fl0m8301
zeus332
byalli186
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King85
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor274
MindelVK8
Other Games
gofns42334
tarik_tv12138
Grubby2751
singsing2056
B2W.Neo392
Hui .157
ArmadaUGS114
QueenE51
OptimusSC22
fpsfer 1
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1280
gamesdonequick652
BasetradeTV201
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 11
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Shiphtur116
Upcoming Events
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1h 13m
Jaystar vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs TerrOr
XuanXuan vs Bonyth
Mihu vs Dewalt
Messiah vs Jaystar
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Wardi Open
17h 13m
OSC
1d 6h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
OSC
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - GSB
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.