EPTCall To Action: Balance Testing TvZ. - Page 28
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fuzzylogic44
Canada2633 Posts
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Oaky
United States95 Posts
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
On August 09 2012 13:47 Debian wrote: It's about the same speed as a medivac until the medivac gets going, even then it's only 10% slower. While that's nice I still don't think this is going to make Ravens any more practical unless for certain situations. I'm not sure where you're getting 'about the same'. In the video it looks like they're either exactly the same speed or the acceleration of the raven could have been slightly slower if anything, but the maximum speed looked the same. What's more, they've stated the maximum speed is 2.5, which is the same as the medivac, so obviously they move at the same speed. :Þ Liquipedia doesn't seem to list the acceleration, so now that I'm curious, I'll check for it in the editor. Now that I've seen the Liquipedia page though, I have to mention that the healing stats are still out of whack. I tested extensively in the past and found that medivacs healed at 8.5 hit points per second (give or take some decimal maybe), not 9 and whoever wrote that article didn't learn basic maths, because 9×1.384 certainly does not equal 13.5 hit points in real time speed. :O I can't see the relevant data in the Editor though, except for the healing period being .111, which would suggest it heals 1hp every ninth of a second, so 9, which conflicts with the results of my long, careful tests on Ghosts. *Shrug* Well, even if it is 9, real time is 1.384×normal, not 1.5× so there's a mistake! Well the editor does state that Medivac acceleration is already 2.25, so there, Blizzard is merely considering allow Ravens' acceleration and speed to match that of the Medivac. | ||
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KuKri
Germany168 Posts
But seriously I don't see these changes bring back any Terran competition in the EU weekly cups. Yesterday AGAIN ZvZ in the Pokerstrategy monthly finals... I'm getting sick of PvZ, ZvZ and PvP, as these matchups cover like 70% of all matchups in these small cups I feel like. I'm hoping that the creep tumor nerf will enable the EU/NA terrans to shine again. Or maybe these guys just don't put enough effort into it and it's just not a matter of balance. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
On August 09 2012 15:21 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: I'm not sure where you're getting 'about the same'. In the video it looks like they're either exactly the same speed or the acceleration of the raven could have been slightly slower if anything, but the maximum speed looked the same. What's more, they've stated the maximum speed is 2.5, which is the same as the medivac, so obviously they move at the same speed. :Þ Liquipedia doesn't seem to list the acceleration, so now that I'm curious, I'll check for it in the editor. Now that I've seen the Liquipedia page though, I have to mention that the healing stats are still out of whack. I tested extensively in the past and found that medivacs healed at 8.5 hit points per second (give or take some decimal maybe), not 9 and whoever wrote that article didn't learn basic maths, because 9×1.384 certainly does not equal 13.5 hit points in real time speed. :O I can't see the relevant data in the Editor though, except for the healing period being .111, which would suggest it heals 1hp every ninth of a second, so 9, which conflicts with the results of my long, careful tests on Ghosts. *Shrug* Well, even if it is 9, real time is 1.384×normal, not 1.5× so there's a mistake! That video includes two ravens with one is 2.25 and the other one is 2.5 speed. It is created in the editor. | ||
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KuKri
Germany168 Posts
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Nethermind
New Zealand445 Posts
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Cylindrical
United States7 Posts
On August 09 2012 12:16 Mackus wrote: Is this after the energy upgrade? Cos it's nothing different than timing your upgrades like Zergs do with Pathogen Glands and Toss did with Khydarin Amulet when it existed. I have no argument against the damage or energy costs my major 'beef' with the Raven is the build time. On Well last time I checked ravens didn't have a energy upgrde? Correct me if I'm wrong. But still 20 seconds extra in pro level is a whole ton of a problem. And the fact after that 20 seconds they still need to wait another 100 seconds for the first raven. Even after those ravens are useless units due to having no harass abilities and. Are seemingly a pure support unit. The infestor has great infested terrans for only 25 energy each which is a fungal plus 5 invests. And the ht can get one or two storms and then bam archon which is a great unit. The raven? Uhm HSM. Then uhm.. Maybe one auto turret which is taken out instantly cause there's only one. Then what.... Wait while it's taking up supply. | ||
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XiWi
11 Posts
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chuDr3t4
Russian Federation483 Posts
On August 09 2012 15:21 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: I'm not sure where you're getting 'about the same'. In the video it looks like they're either exactly the same speed or the acceleration of the raven could have been slightly slower if anything, but the maximum speed looked the same. What's more, they've stated the maximum speed is 2.5, which is the same as the medivac, so obviously they move at the same speed. :Þ Liquipedia doesn't seem to list the acceleration, so now that I'm curious, I'll check for it in the editor. Now that I've seen the Liquipedia page though, I have to mention that the healing stats are still out of whack. I tested extensively in the past and found that medivacs healed at 8.5 hit points per second (give or take some decimal maybe), not 9 and whoever wrote that article didn't learn basic maths, because 9×1.384 certainly does not equal 13.5 hit points in real time speed. :O I can't see the relevant data in the Editor though, except for the healing period being .111, which would suggest it heals 1hp every ninth of a second, so 9, which conflicts with the results of my long, careful tests on Ghosts. *Shrug* Well, even if it is 9, real time is 1.384×normal, not 1.5× so there's a mistake! Well the editor does state that Medivac acceleration is already 2.25, so there, Blizzard is merely considering allow Ravens' acceleration and speed to match that of the Medivac. What if I told you... you can edit it yourself. | ||
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bellsNkeys
United States52 Posts
On August 09 2012 12:08 Whitewing wrote: ... Um, right, you don't stick with pure marine tank for lategame TvZ, you add in marauders, ravens, vikings and ghosts, and often some thors too. Not sure how that is relevant. Feedback is pretty decent, but it's shorter range than ghost abilities and as a single target spell, will never be as good at shutting down casters as an EMP. The problem that makes them bad at it, is that they are pretty much the slowest unit in the game, which makes controlling against enemy casters pretty damn hard. Doable, but hard. And yeah, just look at what the unit does, ghosts are anti-caster units. Use them that way. Terran wins if the enemy doesn't have casters and you you play well, so make the unit that takes away their casters. It's relevant because you're saying muta/ling/bling is not an end-game composition and I'm saying pure marine-tank isn't either. Both races transition out of that stage so I don't see what exactly the debate is? You make it sound as if that's a good enough excuse to be forced into making infestors. Plus it's not like we never see muta/ling play anymore so it's obviously still viable. I think that's a fair enough argument. | ||
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DodgySmalls
Canada158 Posts
These are some positive changes either way in my opinion as they are extremely subtle. For a long time I've felt terrans have neglected the raven for no apparent reason even though it's a fantastic unit, maybe this will increase their usage almost to the degree of the warp prism buff oh so long ago. I have a feeling some of the raven's spells may later need a nerf, but since no terrans ever use this unit TvP (except when cheesing) it's hard to say. Great job by blizzard on this one imo. | ||
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Cylindrical
United States7 Posts
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pmp10
3239 Posts
On August 09 2012 15:27 Cylindrical wrote: Well last time I checked ravens didn't have a energy upgrde? Correct me if I'm wrong. Corvid reactor = +25 starting raven energy. Allows a seeker missile after less than 2 minutes. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
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YourAdHere
United States216 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 09 2012 15:53 YourAdHere wrote: Ehh why are they balance testing TvZ on the most Terran favored widely used map? Antiga is a good map where zergs get insane creep spread so they want to test on that map to see creep spread difference is my assumption. It's not like these changes are that big and need thorough testing as it sounds like they are going through no matter what and a week of testing isn't that long. | ||
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Cylindrical
United States7 Posts
On August 09 2012 15:50 pmp10 wrote: Corvid reactor = +25 starting raven energy. Allows a seeker missile after less than 2 minutes. It doesn't increase maximum capacity tho so you can't launch 2 missiles with 1 raven. Thanks. Ok well initially that makes it a useless unit for about 100 seconds and then after useless until one auto turret or A whopping 4 minutes until useful again. While again taking up supply and giving time to the opponent | ||
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Atoissen
Norway1737 Posts
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
Raven change is a start but I doubt the change itself will be significant in the matchup. HSM is probably best reserved for broodlords and dealing with broodlords isn't even the problem. It gets difficult for terran when broodlords are accompanied by infestor/corrupter, (with the possibility of an ultra switch incoming should that army composition fail). Of course HSM is good against broodlords but it should never do significant damage against spread corrupters, (to avoid Thor splash) or infestors, (which can obviously fungal the raven). Furthermore, both are capable of sniping ravens before they can do damage. However, if ravens are actually good in higher numbers, (and are just underutilised) then maybe the patch will be significant in inspiring people to use it. No doubt that is, at least in part, Blizzard's logic. | ||
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