• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:48
CEST 17:48
KST 00:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists22[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event7Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results02026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) SC2 INu's Battles#15 <BO.9 2Matches> WardiTV Spring Cup SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps? Pros React To: Leta vs Tulbo (ASL S21, Ro.8) Missed out on ASL tickets - what are my options? ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2061 users

Call To Action: Balance Testing TvZ. - Page 25

Forum Index > SC2 General
1619 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 23 24 25 26 27 81 Next
cristo1122
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia505 Posts
August 09 2012 03:32 GMT
#481
On August 09 2012 05:23 Noocta wrote:
About time they buff the Raven speed and acceleration.
That thing was sluggish as hell in comparaison to Vessels.


most def major reason why they get killed so easily
ZvP imbalanced blizzards solution nerf terran
Zahir
Profile Joined March 2012
United States947 Posts
August 09 2012 03:32 GMT
#482
REALLY excellent balance change, the first i've agreed with in a while. i love how they didn't go crazy with changes but tweaked things slightly so an underused unit could be useful. looking forward to seeing maps not be completely covered in creep by 14 min mark.

still think creep could recede a bit faster so that annoying OL over your expo strat is a bit less of a gimme.

would love to see some new raven based strategies vs toss :p
What is best? To crush the Zerg, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the Protoss.
Taefox
Profile Joined March 2010
1533 Posts
August 09 2012 03:35 GMT
#483
Sorry for asking but what is movement acceleration ? Can someone explains ?
@taefoxy
KnT
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia243 Posts
August 09 2012 03:37 GMT
#484
^ The time it takes to go from standstill to full speed
I played a PvP last night, he had stalkers I had stalkers they both shot laser. I lasered harder and won.
Spec
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Taiwan931 Posts
August 09 2012 03:39 GMT
#485
On August 09 2012 07:36 -JoKeR- wrote:
Well they just made two base protoss all ins better.

lawls. But the timing is a bit early and you wouldn't have more than 2 tumors at that time, which don't get affected as much.
They should nerf toss a bit so Terran practice TvZ more XD jk ofc
Eye for an eye make the world go blind - Gandhi
hangene92
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada258 Posts
August 09 2012 03:40 GMT
#486
Im very happy that blizzard is making some changes and trying to implement more raven usage!
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one"
Gosi
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Sweden9072 Posts
August 09 2012 03:42 GMT
#487
On August 09 2012 12:32 cristo1122 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 05:23 Noocta wrote:
About time they buff the Raven speed and acceleration.
That thing was sluggish as hell in comparaison to Vessels.


most def major reason why they get killed so easily

Should be as fast as speed prism, heyooooo!
[13:40] <Qbek> gosi i dreanmt about you
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
August 09 2012 03:43 GMT
#488
Almost all pros go raven only in Atlantis spaceship, metropolis, and whirlwind, because only in these three maps the static defense is useful and can produce very long game. Only in this super late-game scenario (after 22 minutes), raven could be useful. It's just the transition into raven is too damn long and costly. Reducing some raven research costs and time is the way to go.
MrRicewife
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada515 Posts
August 09 2012 03:45 GMT
#489
Raven's add to the dynamic of tvz which is good

creep spread i guess is because of this 6 queen build meta game currently... little difficult controlling creep at the start.. dont know how big of a deal that is tho.
So? My dad can beat up your dad. - Jesus
Mormagil
Profile Joined May 2011
35 Posts
August 09 2012 03:45 GMT
#490
My question is why they are trying to balance TvZ by testing on Antiga. Antiga TvZ is all about the tarren sitting in the middle and never letting zerg take a 4th base. You need to get to late game for the raven change to be relevant, and the meta on Antiga is to avoid exactly that.

The biggest effect the creep tumor change will have is to give zerg less creep (obviously) and thus make them more vulnerable to all-ins. I really don't think this is a decent solution.
"You know, its at times like this that I really wish I had listened to what my mother told me when I was young." "Why? What did she tell you?" "I dont know, I didnt listen."
c0ldfusion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States8293 Posts
August 09 2012 03:49 GMT
#491
I'm shocked at how much discussion this seemingly harmless patch is generating - and I'm a zerg player.

These changes will make almost no difference in anything under GM level play.
Hall0wed
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States8486 Posts
August 09 2012 03:50 GMT
#492
Would much rather see the speed that creep recedes be increased but I guess we'll see how this plays out.

Ravens still going to have the problem of getting fungal before ever getting in range of getting a HSM off.
♦ My Life for BESTie ♦ 류세라 = 배 ♦
Bullet
Profile Joined June 2010
United States280 Posts
August 09 2012 03:52 GMT
#493
I love these changes. I hope they both go live! :D
Infernal_dream
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2359 Posts
August 09 2012 03:52 GMT
#494
On August 09 2012 12:45 Mormagil wrote:
My question is why they are trying to balance TvZ by testing on Antiga. Antiga TvZ is all about the tarren sitting in the middle and never letting zerg take a 4th base. You need to get to late game for the raven change to be relevant, and the meta on Antiga is to avoid exactly that.

The biggest effect the creep tumor change will have is to give zerg less creep (obviously) and thus make them more vulnerable to all-ins. I really don't think this is a decent solution.


If you're active with your first lings (which every high level zerg is) you'd know an all in is coming long before it gets to your creep. The creep has nothing to do with all-ins.
Iron_
Profile Joined April 2010
United States389 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 03:58:16
August 09 2012 03:56 GMT
#495
This seems fine to try, however without addressing the infestor itself, or at *least* making the raven equal to the infestor, I do not believe this will have the desired results. A little speed does not make the raven as good as the infestor.

Edit: And the speed creep recedes really should have been looked at also. One overlord splugeing shit all over an expansion should not make it useless for as long as it does, and clearing creep should not stay there forever as to allow queens to walk down and just put tumors back in place.
ncsix
Profile Joined February 2012
1370 Posts
August 09 2012 04:02 GMT
#496
Not sure about reducing the creep spread from 10 - 8, thats a 20% reduction on paper, but most players (even top level) don't spread tumors exactly at the max distance, so we're really talking about a significant reduction of creep spread.
On top of that, increasing the Raven speed might increase raven usage which further reduces ZvT creep effectiveness.

For average player level, this is a really big nerf for Z. and Taeja's been showing pro Ts don't need a balance check .
Kontys
Profile Joined October 2011
Finland659 Posts
August 09 2012 04:13 GMT
#497
Not at all a silly direction. Blizzard nowadays continuously impresses me with their insight.
PauseBreak
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 04:19:38
August 09 2012 04:19 GMT
#498
On August 09 2012 13:02 ncsix wrote:

For average player level, this is a really big nerf for Z.


Good.






Average players can't micro like Taeja
Asmodeusx
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
286 Posts
August 09 2012 04:21 GMT
#499
Even changing the raven icon would be a terran buff, simply because people will start using them ;/
Hermetis Vögelein ist mein Nahm verlahs meine Flügel und werde zahm.
koppik
Profile Joined April 2010
United States676 Posts
August 09 2012 04:23 GMT
#500
I would have preferred it if they just reverted the ill-advised queen change. Still, I think these changes should make the match-up more dynamic, and maybe we'll see ravens in TvT and TvP (not just for an all-in) more.
Prev 1 23 24 25 26 27 81 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SC Evo League
14:00
SEL Masters #6 - Solar/Classic
LiquipediaDiscussion
WardiTV Invitational
11:00
Wardi Spring Cup
Percival vs Shameless
ByuN vs YoungYakov
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 829
LamboSC2 526
Railgan 116
SteadfastSC 77
BRAT_OK 76
Ketroc 42
Vindicta 38
gerald23 22
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34937
Calm 7771
Sea 2593
Horang2 1830
Shuttle 1404
EffOrt 531
Hyuk 473
Soma 409
ggaemo 383
Rush 229
[ Show more ]
firebathero 226
Nal_rA 143
hero 120
actioN 98
Hyun 60
ToSsGirL 47
Killer 46
sorry 41
Barracks 34
Sharp 31
Hm[arnc] 30
Rock 29
Movie 28
GoRush 15
JulyZerg 13
IntoTheRainbow 13
Terrorterran 12
yabsab 8
SilentControl 6
Dota 2
Gorgc3995
qojqva1918
syndereN275
monkeys_forever175
420jenkins171
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor432
MindelVK3
Other Games
singsing2123
B2W.Neo1506
Beastyqt802
ArmadaUGS374
crisheroes301
Hui .246
KnowMe139
Trikslyr33
Rex21
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream74
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 81
• iHatsuTV 22
• Dystopia_ 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 47
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV365
League of Legends
• Nemesis1830
• Jankos1794
• Shiphtur223
Upcoming Events
IPSL
12m
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
3h 12m
Replay Cast
8h 12m
RSL Revival
18h 12m
herO vs TriGGeR
NightMare vs Solar
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
22h 12m
BSL
1d 3h
IPSL
1d 3h
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Patches Events
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Wardi Open
1d 18h
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
1d 18h
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
GSL
3 days
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
4 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
OSC
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Escore
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W5
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.