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On August 09 2012 05:23 Noocta wrote: About time they buff the Raven speed and acceleration. That thing was sluggish as hell in comparaison to Vessels.
most def major reason why they get killed so easily
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REALLY excellent balance change, the first i've agreed with in a while. i love how they didn't go crazy with changes but tweaked things slightly so an underused unit could be useful. looking forward to seeing maps not be completely covered in creep by 14 min mark.
still think creep could recede a bit faster so that annoying OL over your expo strat is a bit less of a gimme.
would love to see some new raven based strategies vs toss :p
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Sorry for asking but what is movement acceleration ? Can someone explains ?
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^ The time it takes to go from standstill to full speed
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On August 09 2012 07:36 -JoKeR- wrote: Well they just made two base protoss all ins better. lawls. But the timing is a bit early and you wouldn't have more than 2 tumors at that time, which don't get affected as much. They should nerf toss a bit so Terran practice TvZ more XD jk ofc
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Im very happy that blizzard is making some changes and trying to implement more raven usage!
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On August 09 2012 12:32 cristo1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 05:23 Noocta wrote: About time they buff the Raven speed and acceleration. That thing was sluggish as hell in comparaison to Vessels. most def major reason why they get killed so easily Should be as fast as speed prism, heyooooo!
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Almost all pros go raven only in Atlantis spaceship, metropolis, and whirlwind, because only in these three maps the static defense is useful and can produce very long game. Only in this super late-game scenario (after 22 minutes), raven could be useful. It's just the transition into raven is too damn long and costly. Reducing some raven research costs and time is the way to go.
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Raven's add to the dynamic of tvz which is good
creep spread i guess is because of this 6 queen build meta game currently... little difficult controlling creep at the start.. dont know how big of a deal that is tho.
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My question is why they are trying to balance TvZ by testing on Antiga. Antiga TvZ is all about the tarren sitting in the middle and never letting zerg take a 4th base. You need to get to late game for the raven change to be relevant, and the meta on Antiga is to avoid exactly that.
The biggest effect the creep tumor change will have is to give zerg less creep (obviously) and thus make them more vulnerable to all-ins. I really don't think this is a decent solution.
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I'm shocked at how much discussion this seemingly harmless patch is generating - and I'm a zerg player.
These changes will make almost no difference in anything under GM level play.
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Would much rather see the speed that creep recedes be increased but I guess we'll see how this plays out.
Ravens still going to have the problem of getting fungal before ever getting in range of getting a HSM off.
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I love these changes. I hope they both go live! :D
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On August 09 2012 12:45 Mormagil wrote: My question is why they are trying to balance TvZ by testing on Antiga. Antiga TvZ is all about the tarren sitting in the middle and never letting zerg take a 4th base. You need to get to late game for the raven change to be relevant, and the meta on Antiga is to avoid exactly that.
The biggest effect the creep tumor change will have is to give zerg less creep (obviously) and thus make them more vulnerable to all-ins. I really don't think this is a decent solution.
If you're active with your first lings (which every high level zerg is) you'd know an all in is coming long before it gets to your creep. The creep has nothing to do with all-ins.
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This seems fine to try, however without addressing the infestor itself, or at *least* making the raven equal to the infestor, I do not believe this will have the desired results. A little speed does not make the raven as good as the infestor.
Edit: And the speed creep recedes really should have been looked at also. One overlord splugeing shit all over an expansion should not make it useless for as long as it does, and clearing creep should not stay there forever as to allow queens to walk down and just put tumors back in place.
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Not sure about reducing the creep spread from 10 - 8, thats a 20% reduction on paper, but most players (even top level) don't spread tumors exactly at the max distance, so we're really talking about a significant reduction of creep spread. On top of that, increasing the Raven speed might increase raven usage which further reduces ZvT creep effectiveness.
For average player level, this is a really big nerf for Z. and Taeja's been showing pro Ts don't need a balance check .
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Not at all a silly direction. Blizzard nowadays continuously impresses me with their insight.
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On August 09 2012 13:02 ncsix wrote:
For average player level, this is a really big nerf for Z.
Good.
Average players can't micro like Taeja
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Even changing the raven icon would be a terran buff, simply because people will start using them ;/
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I would have preferred it if they just reverted the ill-advised queen change. Still, I think these changes should make the match-up more dynamic, and maybe we'll see ravens in TvT and TvP (not just for an all-in) more.
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