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On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion."
Couldn't have said it better my self! Well said good sir!
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On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion."
The thing is that most posters here are uninformed as to how Naniwa behaves, so its pretty pointless to have to wade through useless posts, based on pure speculation, looking for something that holds value. Yes Idra (bad manners sure stopped him getting in on EG?) flames him a lot but I doubt Morrow would include him in a team just for kicks.
If you want to have a 'discussion' that involves people quoting half truths so be it...
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On August 02 2012 00:28 joshrogan wrote:
Naniwa to join SK and live in the IM house to practise full time, he'll only go to dreamhack + MLG championships so he can focus on GSL and GSTL with IM.
You got any source for that? Or are you just wishing?
On August 02 2012 00:52 fortheGG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion." The thing is that most posters here are uninformed as to how Naniwa behaves, so its pretty pointless to have to wade through useless posts, based on pure speculation, looking for something that holds value. Yes Idra (bad manners sure stopped him getting in on EG?) flames him a lot but I doubt Morrow would include him in a team just for kicks. If you want to have a 'discussion' that involves people quoting half truths so be it...
are you talking about the ICA team? If so I'm afraid to say that it isn't true.
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On August 02 2012 00:52 fortheGG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion." The thing is that most posters here are uninformed as to how Naniwa behaves, so its pretty pointless to have to wade through useless posts, based on pure speculation, looking for something that holds value. Yes Idra (bad manners sure stopped him getting in on EG?) flames him a lot but I doubt Morrow would include him in a team just for kicks. If you want to have a 'discussion' that involves people quoting half truths so be it...
The difference is, Though IdrA is BM he is still marketable and he can put on good PR when needed. Plus he is a known figure in the community from BW. Naniwa is not.
The guy you quoted's point has nothing to do with half truths. The fact that he hops from team to team is not a half truth. The fact that he is BM is not a half truth. These are the things people SHOULD be talking about in the discussion of what team he is going to go to. Again, the pointless hate is stupid as fuck, just as stupid as the blind white knighting fanboys. That has no place in this thread. Level headed discussion of where he is going to go is what people should be talking about, and his track record with teams and BM is a huge part of that conversation.
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On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 00:52 fortheGG wrote:On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion." The thing is that most posters here are uninformed as to how Naniwa behaves, so its pretty pointless to have to wade through useless posts, based on pure speculation, looking for something that holds value. Yes Idra (bad manners sure stopped him getting in on EG?) flames him a lot but I doubt Morrow would include him in a team just for kicks. If you want to have a 'discussion' that involves people quoting half truths so be it... The difference is, Though IdrA is BM he is still marketable and he can put on good PR when needed. Plus he is a known figure in the community from BW. Naniwa is not. The guy you quoted's point has nothing to do with half truths. The fact that he hops from team to team is not a half truth. The fact that he is BM is not a half truth. These are the things people SHOULD be talking about in the discussion of what team he is going to go to. Again, the pointless hate is stupid as fuck, just as stupid as the blind white knighting fanboys. That has no place in this thread. Level headed discussion of where he is going to go is what people should be talking about, and his track record with teams and BM is a huge part of that conversation.
No one has a damn clue where he's going to go or the odds that he'll find a new team. So while it's not a half truth that has been in X number of teams, we have no idea to what extent that's going to bar him from finding a new team. After all he's in code S and has proven staying power in tournaments. Since we're not insiders, our speculation on teams' decision making is utterly worthless.
That and Naniwa has already said that he's going to be teamless for the time being and that he enjoys it.
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On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 00:52 fortheGG wrote:On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion." The thing is that most posters here are uninformed as to how Naniwa behaves, so its pretty pointless to have to wade through useless posts, based on pure speculation, looking for something that holds value. Yes Idra (bad manners sure stopped him getting in on EG?) flames him a lot but I doubt Morrow would include him in a team just for kicks. If you want to have a 'discussion' that involves people quoting half truths so be it... Though IdrA is BM he is still marketable and he can put on good PR when needed.
Ah, the golden rule of western esports. Everything is fine as long as you can sell it. Way to degrade the scene into a corporate marketing gimmick (not that it can get much worse than it already is in that regard).
On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he hops from team to team is not a half truth.
No, but it is a fact brought up out of context to imply that every team switch is a consequence of some internal drama, which is false.
On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he is BM is not a half truth.
Yes, it is a half truth because it implies the BM happens on a regular basis, which is also false.
Stop posting false things or at least provide evidence before trying to take the moral high ground in a discussion.
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On August 02 2012 01:29 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 02 2012 00:52 fortheGG wrote:On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the It's very ignorant to ever think that teams and sponsors don't look for marketability in a player. Money has to come from somewhere and if you get people that start boycotting sponsors over a new player ( I'd like to think people wouldn't do that but lets get real for a minute) then the sponsors won't want the team to have that player and then that team won't have the player. time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion." It would be completely ignorant to ever think that one of the first things a team looks at is marketability. Esports isn't going to get it's money from nowhere so they need people that will help sell products. The thing is that most posters here are uninformed as to how Naniwa behaves, so its pretty pointless to have to wade through useless posts, based on pure speculation, looking for something that holds value. Yes Idra (bad manners sure stopped him getting in on EG?) flames him a lot but I doubt Morrow would include him in a team just for kicks. If you want to have a 'discussion' that involves people quoting half truths so be it... Though IdrA is BM he is still marketable and he can put on good PR when needed. Ah, the golden rule of western esports. Everything is fine as long as you can sell it. Way to degrade the scene into a corporate marketing gimmick (not that it can get much worse than it already is in that regard). Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he hops from team to team is not a half truth. No, but it is a fact brought up out of context to imply that every team switch is a consequence of some internal drama, which is false. Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he is BM is not a half truth. Yes, it is a half truth because it implies the BM happens on a regular basis, which is also false. Stop posting false things or at least provide evidence before trying to take the moral high ground in a discussion.
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On August 02 2012 01:29 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 02 2012 00:52 fortheGG wrote:On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion." The thing is that most posters here are uninformed as to how Naniwa behaves, so its pretty pointless to have to wade through useless posts, based on pure speculation, looking for something that holds value. Yes Idra (bad manners sure stopped him getting in on EG?) flames him a lot but I doubt Morrow would include him in a team just for kicks. If you want to have a 'discussion' that involves people quoting half truths so be it... Though IdrA is BM he is still marketable and he can put on good PR when needed. Ah, the golden rule of western esports. Everything is fine as long as you can sell it. Way to degrade the scene into a corporate marketing gimmick (not that it can get much worse than it already is in that regard). Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he hops from team to team is not a half truth. No, but it is a fact brought up out of context to imply that every team switch is a consequence of some internal drama, which is false. Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he is BM is not a half truth. Yes, it is a half truth because it implies the BM happens on a regular basis, which is also false. Stop posting false things or at least provide evidence before trying to take the moral high ground in a discussion.
1) I never said that it was a good thing, or that I agree with it. Just explaining why.
2)It is a fact! So we agree on something :D. But in all seriousness, if you think a team isn't looking at someones track record like that? Then you don't understand how team management and recruitment works... To what extent they value obviously differs from team to team. Thats why people should Discuss it!!!
3) It does happen on a regular basis.. Even though I will give you he has been better as of late, he already has a well known reputation for being BM which again will factor in on which teams will accept him. Another point people should be allowed to discuss without blind fanboys rushing to kiss Naniwas ass.
Edit: Examples include, Bashing tournaments while in game calling them a joke. Probe rushing, Balance whine and smack talk to opponents on multiple occasions. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure if you did some digging you could find more. Again I'd like to state that he is getting better at it, and I'm not a Naniwa hater, nor am I a fanboy. Just want to be able to properly talk about which teams are possible for him and these are factors in that discussion.
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On August 02 2012 01:40 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 01:29 Talin wrote:On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 02 2012 00:52 fortheGG wrote:On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion." The thing is that most posters here are uninformed as to how Naniwa behaves, so its pretty pointless to have to wade through useless posts, based on pure speculation, looking for something that holds value. Yes Idra (bad manners sure stopped him getting in on EG?) flames him a lot but I doubt Morrow would include him in a team just for kicks. If you want to have a 'discussion' that involves people quoting half truths so be it... Though IdrA is BM he is still marketable and he can put on good PR when needed. Ah, the golden rule of western esports. Everything is fine as long as you can sell it. Way to degrade the scene into a corporate marketing gimmick (not that it can get much worse than it already is in that regard). On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he hops from team to team is not a half truth. No, but it is a fact brought up out of context to imply that every team switch is a consequence of some internal drama, which is false. On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he is BM is not a half truth. Yes, it is a half truth because it implies the BM happens on a regular basis, which is also false. Stop posting false things or at least provide evidence before trying to take the moral high ground in a discussion. 2)It is a fact! So we agree on something :D. But in all seriousness, if you think a team isn't looking at someones track record like that? Then you don't understand how team management and recruitment works... To what extent they value obviously differs from team to team. Thats why people should Discuss it!!!
People that manage teams tend to have a little lot more insider information on what a player's relationship with his past teams really was, what the teams wanted, what the player wanted, who failed whom in the process and why. They can have informed discussions and make informed decisions.
People who "discuss it" on forums know little more than what they can read from Liquipedia.
On August 02 2012 01:40 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
3) It does happen on a regular basis.. Even though I will give you he has been better as of late, he already has a well known reputation for being BM which again will factor in on which teams will accept him. Another point people should be allowed to discuss without blind fanboys rushing to kiss Naniwas ass.
Saying it again won't make it any more true. Proving that it does happen on a regular basis will. Good luck with that.
You're allowed to discuss anything. The only thing you should arguably not be allowed to do in those discussions is post false information. Seeing as you're now doing that repeatedly, bias seems to be your problem at least as much as anyone else's that you were targeting with that remark.
Edit: And no, saying he's done things "on multiple occasions" doesn't quite ooze credibility.
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On August 02 2012 01:58 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 01:40 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 02 2012 01:29 Talin wrote:On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 02 2012 00:52 fortheGG wrote:On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion." The thing is that most posters here are uninformed as to how Naniwa behaves, so its pretty pointless to have to wade through useless posts, based on pure speculation, looking for something that holds value. Yes Idra (bad manners sure stopped him getting in on EG?) flames him a lot but I doubt Morrow would include him in a team just for kicks. If you want to have a 'discussion' that involves people quoting half truths so be it... Though IdrA is BM he is still marketable and he can put on good PR when needed. Ah, the golden rule of western esports. Everything is fine as long as you can sell it. Way to degrade the scene into a corporate marketing gimmick (not that it can get much worse than it already is in that regard). On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he hops from team to team is not a half truth. No, but it is a fact brought up out of context to imply that every team switch is a consequence of some internal drama, which is false. On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he is BM is not a half truth. Yes, it is a half truth because it implies the BM happens on a regular basis, which is also false. Stop posting false things or at least provide evidence before trying to take the moral high ground in a discussion. 2)It is a fact! So we agree on something :D. But in all seriousness, if you think a team isn't looking at someones track record like that? Then you don't understand how team management and recruitment works... To what extent they value obviously differs from team to team. Thats why people should Discuss it!!! People that manage teams tend to have a little lot more insider information on what a player's relationship with his past teams really was. They can have informed discussions and make informed decisions. People who "discuss it" on forums know little more than what they can read from Liquipedia. Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 01:40 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
3) It does happen on a regular basis.. Even though I will give you he has been better as of late, he already has a well known reputation for being BM which again will factor in on which teams will accept him. Another point people should be allowed to discuss without blind fanboys rushing to kiss Naniwas ass. Saying it again won't make it any more true. Proving that it does happen on a regular basis will. Good luck with that. You're allowed to discuss anything. The only thing you should arguably not be allowed to do in those discussions is post false information. Seeing as you're now doing that repeatedly, bias seems to be your problem at least as much as anyone else's that you were targeting with that remark.
Obviously the team managers have more insider information... it would be a pretty bad team otherwise... That doesn't mean people shouldn't discuss freely where they think the players options are. Have you ever seen sports fans during free agency when players contracts expire? All they do is talk about players options "Well he can't go here because of X" or "He doesn't want to go here because of Y". None of those people have insider information on players and teams, yet people don't shit on them for talking about the reasons why they think he will goto a certain team or won't. Which is all I'm trying to say here.
Also look at my edit, I posted a couple of BM things that first came to mind. I don't really care enough to dig for more, I'm not actually trying to argue about whether or not he is BM, I'm just saying its a part of the discussion due to his KNOWN reputation for being BM. Whether warranted or not, he has a reputation know Especially in Korea which could factor in to whether or not he can go to a Korean team.
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This makes me sad, but I hope Naniwa finds a new team soon, and Quantic flourishes without him ♥
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On August 02 2012 02:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 01:58 Talin wrote:On August 02 2012 01:40 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 02 2012 01:29 Talin wrote:On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 02 2012 00:52 fortheGG wrote:On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion." The thing is that most posters here are uninformed as to how Naniwa behaves, so its pretty pointless to have to wade through useless posts, based on pure speculation, looking for something that holds value. Yes Idra (bad manners sure stopped him getting in on EG?) flames him a lot but I doubt Morrow would include him in a team just for kicks. If you want to have a 'discussion' that involves people quoting half truths so be it... Though IdrA is BM he is still marketable and he can put on good PR when needed. Ah, the golden rule of western esports. Everything is fine as long as you can sell it. Way to degrade the scene into a corporate marketing gimmick (not that it can get much worse than it already is in that regard). On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he hops from team to team is not a half truth. No, but it is a fact brought up out of context to imply that every team switch is a consequence of some internal drama, which is false. On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he is BM is not a half truth. Yes, it is a half truth because it implies the BM happens on a regular basis, which is also false. Stop posting false things or at least provide evidence before trying to take the moral high ground in a discussion. 2)It is a fact! So we agree on something :D. But in all seriousness, if you think a team isn't looking at someones track record like that? Then you don't understand how team management and recruitment works... To what extent they value obviously differs from team to team. Thats why people should Discuss it!!! People that manage teams tend to have a little lot more insider information on what a player's relationship with his past teams really was. They can have informed discussions and make informed decisions. People who "discuss it" on forums know little more than what they can read from Liquipedia. On August 02 2012 01:40 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
3) It does happen on a regular basis.. Even though I will give you he has been better as of late, he already has a well known reputation for being BM which again will factor in on which teams will accept him. Another point people should be allowed to discuss without blind fanboys rushing to kiss Naniwas ass. Saying it again won't make it any more true. Proving that it does happen on a regular basis will. Good luck with that. You're allowed to discuss anything. The only thing you should arguably not be allowed to do in those discussions is post false information. Seeing as you're now doing that repeatedly, bias seems to be your problem at least as much as anyone else's that you were targeting with that remark. Obviously the team managers have more insider information... it would be a pretty bad team otherwise... That doesn't mean people shouldn't discuss freely where they think the players options are. Have you ever seen sports fans during free agency when players contracts expire? All they do is talk about players options "Well he can't go here because of X" or "He doesn't want to go here because of Y". None of those people have insider information on players and teams, yet people don't shit on them for talking about the reasons why they think he will goto a certain team or won't. Which is all I'm trying to say here.
Okay, I see your point.
On August 02 2012 02:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Also look at my edit, I posted a couple of BM things that first came to mind. I don't really care enough to dig for more, I'm not actually trying to argue about whether or not he is BM, I'm just saying its a part of the discussion due to his KNOWN reputation for being BM.
Well you were arguing just that until this post, but either way I'm glad you no longer do.
His known reputation for BM is a product of threads like these more so than anything he actually did (in terms of BM).
This is easily proven - you can look over this entire thread and 99% of the people who believe and buy into his reputation can't actually think of an instance of BM other than the probe rush and the TSL thing (only because it happened recently). And then the 1% with a somewhat longer memory thought of the EPS thing and his WC3 background years ago.
For someone who is believed to "BM all the time", one would actually have to do a ton of digging to come up with more than a couple incidents over his entire SC2 career, most of which isn't even serious or insulting by any stretch of the imagination. Ultimately it's an amount similar to what you can dig out for any player not called Sheth or WhiteRa.
So when you say that it's okay for people to discuss it, sure, discuss it. But you should be careful HOW you discuss and it and how correct the information you're spreading is, and how much of it is just based on hearsay, because these "discussions" can actually have negative consequences for the player and hurt his reputation (and thus his value on the player market).
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On August 02 2012 02:15 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 02:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 02 2012 01:58 Talin wrote:On August 02 2012 01:40 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 02 2012 01:29 Talin wrote:On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 02 2012 00:52 fortheGG wrote:On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion." The thing is that most posters here are uninformed as to how Naniwa behaves, so its pretty pointless to have to wade through useless posts, based on pure speculation, looking for something that holds value. Yes Idra (bad manners sure stopped him getting in on EG?) flames him a lot but I doubt Morrow would include him in a team just for kicks. If you want to have a 'discussion' that involves people quoting half truths so be it... Though IdrA is BM he is still marketable and he can put on good PR when needed. Ah, the golden rule of western esports. Everything is fine as long as you can sell it. Way to degrade the scene into a corporate marketing gimmick (not that it can get much worse than it already is in that regard). On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he hops from team to team is not a half truth. No, but it is a fact brought up out of context to imply that every team switch is a consequence of some internal drama, which is false. On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he is BM is not a half truth. Yes, it is a half truth because it implies the BM happens on a regular basis, which is also false. Stop posting false things or at least provide evidence before trying to take the moral high ground in a discussion. 2)It is a fact! So we agree on something :D. But in all seriousness, if you think a team isn't looking at someones track record like that? Then you don't understand how team management and recruitment works... To what extent they value obviously differs from team to team. Thats why people should Discuss it!!! People that manage teams tend to have a little lot more insider information on what a player's relationship with his past teams really was. They can have informed discussions and make informed decisions. People who "discuss it" on forums know little more than what they can read from Liquipedia. On August 02 2012 01:40 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
3) It does happen on a regular basis.. Even though I will give you he has been better as of late, he already has a well known reputation for being BM which again will factor in on which teams will accept him. Another point people should be allowed to discuss without blind fanboys rushing to kiss Naniwas ass. Saying it again won't make it any more true. Proving that it does happen on a regular basis will. Good luck with that. You're allowed to discuss anything. The only thing you should arguably not be allowed to do in those discussions is post false information. Seeing as you're now doing that repeatedly, bias seems to be your problem at least as much as anyone else's that you were targeting with that remark. Obviously the team managers have more insider information... it would be a pretty bad team otherwise... That doesn't mean people shouldn't discuss freely where they think the players options are. Have you ever seen sports fans during free agency when players contracts expire? All they do is talk about players options "Well he can't go here because of X" or "He doesn't want to go here because of Y". None of those people have insider information on players and teams, yet people don't shit on them for talking about the reasons why they think he will goto a certain team or won't. Which is all I'm trying to say here. Okay, I see your point. Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 02:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Also look at my edit, I posted a couple of BM things that first came to mind. I don't really care enough to dig for more, I'm not actually trying to argue about whether or not he is BM, I'm just saying its a part of the discussion due to his KNOWN reputation for being BM. Well you were arguing just that until this post, but either way I'm glad you no longer do. His known reputation for BM is a product of threads like these more so than anything he actually did (in terms of BM). This is easily proven - you can look over this entire thread and 99% of the people who believe and buy into his reputation can't actually think of an instance of BM other than the probe rush and the TSL thing (only because it happened recently). And then the 1% with a somewhat longer memory thought of the EPS thing and his WC3 background years ago. For someone who is believed to "BM all the time", one would actually have to do a ton of digging to come up with more than a couple incidents over his entire SC2 career, most of which isn't even serious or insulting by any stretch of the imagination. So when you say that it's okay for people to discuss it, sure, discuss it. But you should be careful HOW you discuss and it and how correct the information you're spreading is, and how much of it is just based on hearsay, because these "discussions" can actually have negative consequences for the player.
Hmm I can see why it sounded like I was arguing that he was BM. Very badly worded and presented by me... I was just trying to say he has a bad reputation for being BM is all 
Anyway I'm glad we had this discussion! It's been a while since I've had a level headed talk/debate/argument online that didn't resort to nonsense and name calling!
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On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 00:52 fortheGG wrote:On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion." The thing is that most posters here are uninformed as to how Naniwa behaves, so its pretty pointless to have to wade through useless posts, based on pure speculation, looking for something that holds value. Yes Idra (bad manners sure stopped him getting in on EG?) flames him a lot but I doubt Morrow would include him in a team just for kicks. If you want to have a 'discussion' that involves people quoting half truths so be it... The difference is, Though IdrA is BM he is still marketable and he can put on good PR when needed. Plus he is a known figure in the community from BW. Naniwa is not. The guy you quoted's point has nothing to do with half truths. The fact that he hops from team to team is not a half truth. The fact that he is BM is not a half truth. These are the things people SHOULD be talking about in the discussion of what team he is going to go to. Again, the pointless hate is stupid as fuck, just as stupid as the blind white knighting fanboys. That has no place in this thread. Level headed discussion of where he is going to go is what people should be talking about, and his track record with teams and BM is a huge part of that conversation.
This is right.
There's a hugeeeeeee difference between baseless speculation and educated guess.
Stuff like "he's joining EG/Startales/Korean teams" are baseless, because we all know that he will never ever be able to join those teams in a million year given his personality.
Stuffs like "he's a teamhopper", "He didn't leave on good term, that is just PR" "He's not getting along with ST members" are educated guess, because historically it happened before, and not once.
Educated guess, although might be harsh, are the most logical assumption one can come up with, and have more chance to be right than baseless speculation, and certainly provide more discussion than "you all are drama queen, just shut up and let things play out" talk.
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On August 02 2012 01:40 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 01:29 Talin wrote:On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 02 2012 00:52 fortheGG wrote:On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion." The thing is that most posters here are uninformed as to how Naniwa behaves, so its pretty pointless to have to wade through useless posts, based on pure speculation, looking for something that holds value. Yes Idra (bad manners sure stopped him getting in on EG?) flames him a lot but I doubt Morrow would include him in a team just for kicks. If you want to have a 'discussion' that involves people quoting half truths so be it... Though IdrA is BM he is still marketable and he can put on good PR when needed. Ah, the golden rule of western esports. Everything is fine as long as you can sell it. Way to degrade the scene into a corporate marketing gimmick (not that it can get much worse than it already is in that regard). On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he hops from team to team is not a half truth. No, but it is a fact brought up out of context to imply that every team switch is a consequence of some internal drama, which is false. On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
The fact that he is BM is not a half truth. Yes, it is a half truth because it implies the BM happens on a regular basis, which is also false. Stop posting false things or at least provide evidence before trying to take the moral high ground in a discussion. 1) I never said that it was a good thing, or that I agree with it. Just explaining why. 2)It is a fact! So we agree on something :D. But in all seriousness, if you think a team isn't looking at someones track record like that? Then you don't understand how team management and recruitment works... To what extent they value obviously differs from team to team. Thats why people should Discuss it!!! 3) It does happen on a regular basis.. Even though I will give you he has been better as of late, he already has a well known reputation for being BM which again will factor in on which teams will accept him. Another point people should be allowed to discuss without blind fanboys rushing to kiss Naniwas ass. Edit: Examples include, Bashing tournaments while in game calling them a joke. Probe rushing, Balance whine and smack talk to opponents on multiple occasions. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure if you did some digging you could find more. Again I'd like to state that he is getting better at it, and I'm not a Naniwa hater, nor am I a fanboy. Just want to be able to properly talk about which teams are possible for him and these are factors in that discussion.
Haha, beautiful. The things you mention from the top of your head is of the same quality (and quantity) as all the other drama queens.
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On July 31 2012 18:25 NuclearJudas wrote:
To anyone who doesn't understand, the ICA thing is Morrow having fun (or trolling, if you may).
I assume he'll be going to Startale or another team that can promise him GSL-participation.
As others, I'm also quite surprised at these news, since Quantic seemed like a good fit. Will be interesting to see where he ends up next.
He said in a twitter statement that he would never join StarTale, I expect this also is for all Korean teams. If he's joining a team it would be a foreigner one, preferably also keeping him in South Korea so he can participate in Code S. Therefore my bet for that would be Fnatic!
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On August 02 2012 00:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 00:52 fortheGG wrote:On August 01 2012 22:50 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2012 21:50 LakseWim wrote:On August 01 2012 02:55 Doodsmack wrote:
Sorry but if you're posting negatively about Naniwa in this thread then you're an esports drama queen. Your opinions about Naniwa's personality and past are not relevant here because all we know is that Naniwa left Quantic on good terms (and please don't say "no thats just PR they're covering something up"). Therefore you're bringin drama into a place it wasn't called for, so you're a drama queen. Even if you say something ostensibly on topic but then throw in a jab ("will be interesting to see where he goes but I don't think any teams will want him"), you're a drama queen. You are the reason people complain about this community and you are the reason pros and casters avoid the forums like the plague. So I hope you're proud that you've hopped onto the community's cancerous tumor even while calling yourself a fan of SC2. Please unfurl your panties and stop pretending to have reasonable and legitimate things to say. The mature thing to do is resist your urge to make a negative post. i feel like this awesome post should be quoted yet again Except its entirely wrong. The fact that he's been on multiple teams and is hard to work with IS relevant to a conversation about his status in regards to teams. This thread isn't his fanclub, negative things about him SHOULD be discussed because those are the things that will dictate which team he joins next. He's undoubtedly skilled, but his abrasive nature will sure as hell stop him from joining Liquid and EG, and he's not exactly a Korean fan favourite, so you can pretty much say there's no chance of him joining a Korean team. There. That "negative" post about him had more relevance than pointless bitching about how people should be nice all the time. That is what we call "a discussion." If we can stop polarizing between "THIS THREAD IS THE NANIWA LOVE HOUSE NO HATERZ PLZ" and "FUCK NANIWA FOR NO REASON" we can actually have that "discussion." The thing is that most posters here are uninformed as to how Naniwa behaves, so its pretty pointless to have to wade through useless posts, based on pure speculation, looking for something that holds value. Yes Idra (bad manners sure stopped him getting in on EG?) flames him a lot but I doubt Morrow would include him in a team just for kicks. If you want to have a 'discussion' that involves people quoting half truths so be it... The difference is, Though IdrA is BM he is still marketable and he can put on good PR when needed. Plus he is a known figure in the community from BW. Naniwa is not.
I thought the difference was that Naniwa actually wins games and tournaments 
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wow...thats a thread...just want to drop a line here..."Hello World!"
on Topic: Sad to see Naniwa leave...but GL to him!
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On August 01 2012 20:58 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 20:12 RaelSan wrote:
I don t get this thread : /
Just please try to be objective, you have to admit that he has done many unprofessionnal things such as his probe rush, BM in TSL4, leaving like 7 teams,...
Of course many haters are overreacting, because it's always the same when a drama occurs, dont take that too seriously but :
Please don't blindly pretend that he hasn't done anything wrong when he did, and sent a bad image of him, his team and esports, he doesn't disserve to be hanged but if you want to talk about this don't be extreme, it's always bad.
So my point is : Talin I like the way you write but you are obviously biased and can't really admit the truth even if I understand your fight with haters, you are using their weapons ! While I appreciate the compliment about my writing, the purpose of my writing is for it to actually be read by others, and when I say read, I don't mean skimmed over to get a vague (and ultimately wrong) idea of what my points are. For someone who claims to be objective, you're certainly saying a lot of things that suggest otherwise. He didn't leave 7 teams due to issues with professionalism, you're using the number that he's been on completely out of context - not really a trademark of objectivity. Out of all these "many" unprofessional things he did, you bring up the same two cases that everyone else does, and then use those examples to attempt to make it seem like he does that kind of thing regularly. For the sake of objectivity which we both value, let's remind people that the first incident was a very controversial case not only because of what he did (which I agree was unprofessional), but also because of the situation he was put in by a flawed tournament format. The second incident was a petty ingame outburst that is only remembered because it was broadcasted a few days ago. There were 8 MONTHS in between these two individual incidents. The only other incident I've heard about in this thread was the EPS thing which was 2 years ago, and the WC3 stuff from even longer ago. If you can find even 1 BM outburst per month during this period, then you'll barely have some ground to claim that his image is justified. Even then, I can name several well-standing, popular players with a (much) worse record.
What I was trying to say, and I may have been unclear, is :
You can have an opinion on Naniwa, good or bad, you can think that he is a good or bad person / player.
BUT you can't deny that his attitude is pretty "unprofessional" because he has strong emotive reactions during tournaments such as the Nestea's case, the balance BM in tsl 4, because he often leaves team for unclear reasons ( I never said he was kicked from 7 teams, only that he changes a lot but I agree that I was unclear ) and the other stuff that ppl said in this thread.
So my point is, you can't deny he made many strange mistakes that could justify people to dislike him and make a 80 pages thread about him leaving a team once more, I dont tell you that he is a prick or anything, just that the polemic didnt just grow from nothing .
That's why I said I wanted objectivity, you can say that you like him or not, for whatever reasons, but you can't argue that there is stuff to talk about. I didnt like the fact you used your bad-ass argument skills to make it sound like the haters made everything up ( when they are actually only overreacting / wrong ), the dood made mistakes that hurted his public image.
I am not even trying to give my opinion on the Naniwa matter here :p But if you want to know what I think, for me the guy is only a bit lost not really thinking ahead.
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EPT
