EPTIf you look at the stats that Playhem released, TDA and Shakura's are actually the most balanced maps right now. Golds I agree are a bad idea, holding the middle on Antiga is already powerful enough.
[MLG] Format Changes at the Summer Championship - Page 9
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Fuego
United Kingdom166 Posts
If you look at the stats that Playhem released, TDA and Shakura's are actually the most balanced maps right now. Golds I agree are a bad idea, holding the middle on Antiga is already powerful enough. | ||
|
Random_Guy09
Canada1010 Posts
On July 28 2012 08:01 MarcH wrote: I suppose the fact Sundance is looking into this is a positive of sorts But he wants "proven data" on why the map pool sucks. Screw needing data every single pro that has a twitter has tweeting him about having TDA and Shakura's in the map pool. No other tournament uses those terrible maps for the simple fact they'll just keep getting veto'd and are just useless if they're veto'd by pretty much everyone. | ||
|
Dakure
United States513 Posts
Antiga Shipyard (According to TLPD, MLG uses Antiga Shipyard 1.1) + Show Spoiler + International: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/481_Antiga_Shipyard_1.1 TvZ: 115-140 (45.1%) ZvP: 87-87 (50%) PvT: 88-100 (46.8%) Korean: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/481_Antiga_Shipyard_1.1 TvZ: 17-17 (50%) ZvP: 15-12 (55.6%) PvT: 10-16 (38.5%) Total: TvZ: 132-157 (45.7%) ZvP: 102-99 (50.7%) PvT: 98-116 (45.8%) ESV Cloud Kingdom + Show Spoiler + International: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/510_ESV_Cloud_Kingdom TvZ: 186-212 (46.7%) ZvP: 289-249 (53.7%) PvT: 196-171 (53.4%) Korean: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/510_ESV_Cloud_Kingdom TvZ: 79-74 (51.6%) ZvP: 69-68 (50.4%) PvT: 71-75 (48.6%) Total: TvZ: 265-286 (48.1%) ZvP: 358-317 (53.0%) PvT: 267-246 (52.0%) Daybreak + Show Spoiler + International: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/479_Crux_Daybreak TvZ: 247-383 (39.2%) ZvP: 556-478 (53.8%) PvT: 274-254 (51.9%) Korean: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/479_Crux_Daybreak TvZ: 141-140 (50.2%) ZvP: 121-138 (46.7%) PvT: 135-128 (51.3%) Total: TvZ: 388-523 (42.6%) ZvP: 677-616 (52.4%) PvT: 409-382 (51.7%) Entombed Valley + Show Spoiler + International: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/527_Entombed_Valley TvZ: 85-95 (47.2%) ZvP: 112-112 (50%) PvT: 143-147 (49.3%) Korean: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/527_Entombed_Valley TvZ: 49-71 (40.8%) ZvP: 66-80 (45.2%) PvT: 75-87 (46.3%) Total: TvZ: 134-166 (44.7%) ZvP: 178-192 (48.1%) PvT: 218-234 (48.2%) Metropolis + Show Spoiler + International: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/544_Crux_Metropolis_Distorted TvZ: 11-17 (39.3%) ZvP: 24-24 (50%) PvT: 23-14 (62.2%) Korea: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/528_Crux_Metropolis (Note: Island Expansions present) TvZ: 28-56 (33.3%) ZvP: 24-36 (40%) PvT: 41-39 (51.3%) Total: TvZ: 39-73 (34.8%) ZvP: 48-60 (44.4%) PvT: 64-53 (54/7%) Shakuras Plateau + Show Spoiler + International: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/447_Shakuras_Plateau_2.0 TvZ: 639-583 (52.3%) ZvP: 574-522 (52.4%) PvT: 493-640 (43.5%) Korea: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/447_Shakuras_Plateau_2.0 TvZ: 15-12 (55.6%) ZvP: 6-16 (27.3%) PvT: 18-12 (60%) Total: TvZ: 654-595 (52.4%) ZvP: 580-538 (51.9%) PvT: 511-652 (43.9%) Tal'Darim Altar + Show Spoiler + International: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/448_Crux_Tal'Darim_Altar_LE TvZ: 442-408 (52%) ZvP: 406-404 (50.1%) PvT: 412-419 (49.6%) Korea: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/448_Crux_Tal'Darim_Altar_LE TvZ: 62-49 (55.9%) ZvP: 40-42 (48.8%) PvT: 47-50 (48.5%) Total: TvZ: 504-457 (52.4%) ZvP: 446-446 (50.0%) PvT: 459-469 (49.5%) Daybreak TvZ, Entombed ZvT, Metropolis TvZ, Shakuras PvT are stats that really stand out to me. From a naive perspective, these stats suggest to me that Metropolis and Shakuras should really be replaced. Metropolis is a huge macro map, so I don't really know a good replacement, but Shakuras seems to me like a rush map. I feel like Ohana should seriously be considered. Ohana LE + Show Spoiler + International: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/548_ESV_Ohana_LE TvZ: 41-47 (46.6%) ZvP: 58-61 (48.7%) PvT: 36-39 (48%) Korea: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/548_ESV_Ohana_LE TvZ: 63-53 (54.3%) ZvP: 53-60 (46.9%) PvT: 56-46 (54.9%) Total: TvZ: 104-100 (51.0%) ZvP: 111-121 (47.8%) PvT: 92-85 (52.0%) GSL experiments with map pools, why can't MLG? | ||
|
HolyExlxF
United States256 Posts
| ||
|
Nirel
Israel1526 Posts
 | ||
|
Timetwister22
United States538 Posts
| ||
|
Mackus
England1681 Posts
It's really punishing players who are coming from the Open Bracket .. If you drop 2 games in the Group play you're gonna start from a really poor position in the Championship bracket whereas if you dropped 2 games in Pool play you could win the other 3 and start decently depending how the other group results reflected. The easy counter-argument to this is that they should of attended the arena to get straight into Group play but WCS Korea prelims we're on at same time. | ||
|
Dakure
United States513 Posts
On July 28 2012 10:16 Mackus wrote: Mixed feelings about this. It's really punishing players who are coming from the Open Bracket .. If you drop 2 games in the Group play you're gonna start from a really poor position in the Championship bracket whereas if you dropped 2 games in Pool play you could win the other 3 and start decently depending how the other group results reflected. The easy counter-argument to this is that they should of attended the arena to get straight into Group play but WCS Korea prelims we're on at same time. Another argument could be that other people's performance doesn't influence your position/situation, ie there's no need to rely on map score or anything. Edit: A good example is how players who went 2-1 in HSC4 were eliminated even though the players that advanced went 2-1 as well, because of map score. | ||
|
Random_Guy09
Canada1010 Posts
On July 28 2012 10:14 Timetwister22 wrote: This map pool is such a disappointment. I'm beginning to feel as if MLG cares more about map statistics than the actual gameplay and spectating value maps bring to the scene. Shakuras Plateau, Tal’darim Altar, and Antiga Shipyard desperately need to go. Hell, even Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak have seen enough stage time to be worthy of a replacement. Maps are important MLG, so for the love of the fans, fix your map pool. Only reason that Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak get alot of "stage time" is because the players dont seem to veto those maps because they have their own favoured MU and decide to pick it if someone doesnt veto it. | ||
|
T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
| ||
|
chuDr3t4
Russian Federation483 Posts
On July 28 2012 10:20 T0fuuu wrote: I hate this format. I actually enjoyed pool play stages cos it gives you a chance to follow a player and give something to measure their performance between the days. Whereas with big double elims its just like "Oh he lost see you next time" whenever a player does poorly. If double elim for you is "Oh he lost see you next time", then what is single elim? | ||
|
The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
|
Mackus
England1681 Posts
On July 28 2012 10:19 Dakure wrote: Another argument could be that other people's performance doesn't influence your position/situation, ie there's no need to rely on map score or anything. Edit: A good example is how players who went 2-1 in HSC4 were eliminated even though the players that advanced went 2-1 as well, because of map score. I see where you're coming from and I slightly agree but Map score isn't as significant as your example. Losing on map score just means you start further down the ladder in the bracket whereas HSC4 it meant elimination from the tournament .. The only thing I didn't agree with in Pool play is even you are 0-5 you were still in the Championship Bracket no matter how shit you were. | ||
|
althaz
Australia1001 Posts
On the map pool: MLG Antiga Shipyard - This needs to go, IMO. It's not the worst map, but it's not good either. MLG ESV Cloud Kingdom - Fantastic map, might not be the newest, but great map. MLG Daybreak - Probably the best map around, games always seem to be great. MLG Entombed Valley - Decent enough map, but would like to see it replaced with something else (Ohana is good) MLG Metropolis - Haven't played enough on this map to form a real opinion, but TvZ seems tough MLG Shakuras Plateau - Get rid! This map is terrible. Although it does make mech work fairly well in TvP and TvZ (but probably not at the pro level) MLG Tal’darim Altar - And the worst map award goes to...THIS ONE. Oh god get rid of it immediatley. Straight away. IS IT STILL IN THE MAP POOL?! Remove it! Are you not listening to me or something!? This map is HORRIBLE. PvP is ruined by this map, ZvP is ruined (for both races), TvZ is crap...the list goes on. This is a terrible map, not saying it's imbalanced, it just invites shit games. | ||
|
sam05396
United States783 Posts
| ||
|
HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
| ||
|
HexSCII
Canada115 Posts
 (((( | ||
|
T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
On July 28 2012 10:21 chuDr3t4 wrote: If double elim for you is "Oh he lost see you next time", then what is single elim? Well we dont really see many bottom bracket games on MLG streams. So it really is "see you next time". | ||
|
SCPenguin
United States19 Posts
On July 28 2012 06:19 ImAbstracT wrote: Sounds good. Now, about extended series Sundance... I'm pretty sure half of this was explaining how and why there is no extended series anymore. "...match history will not be carried over..." | ||
|
Hrrrrm
United States2081 Posts
Basically they know about their dysfunctional rule but, don't want to remove it for whatever reason. MLG man the fuck up and remove the rule already. Because if you feel like your Grand Finals shouldn't be played with your "unique" rule then no match in the entire tournament should. | ||
| ||
