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On July 26 2012 02:46 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 02:43 Wildmoon wrote:
It's not really about style or whatever for Bisu. From what I have seen he's just bad at SC2 right now. The only thing he need to improve is his overall skill. Wrong, he have TOP level multitask but the style in which Protoss is suppose to be played have hampered his ability. It is really about style or whatever for him.
If he wasn't just bad at the game he would still do a lot better than he currently does. No matter if protoss doesn't fit his style he should still have been able to adapt better than he has so far. I still have high hopes for him though.
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If you ask me about any BW players record between 2009-2012, I can tell it by heart. And so can most people on TL. The scene was just that amazing. A thread like this wasn't ever necessary because the knowledge was assumed. This is quality thread but speaks more about the state of the scene than the actual games. I hope things get real when R3 of SPL starts
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I'd like to see this information on jangbi and/or baby as well.
regardless, they're doing as well as I could have expect them to. however flash's mechanics looked better than the other sc2 pro's in a fpvod and he'll get better in time
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On July 26 2012 02:48 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 02:46 Xiphos wrote:On July 26 2012 02:43 Wildmoon wrote:
It's not really about style or whatever for Bisu. From what I have seen he's just bad at SC2 right now. The only thing he need to improve is his overall skill. Wrong, he have TOP level multitask but the style in which Protoss is suppose to be played have hampered his ability. It is really about style or whatever for him. No, before you will worry about style you will have to be atleast good at the game first. His multitask is great and all but the fact is it's different game. The pace is different. It's not like you can suddenly use your BW's multitask in SC2. Right now he won't do any better if he switch to terran or zerg.
You just shot yourself in your own foot by agreeing that the races are played differently.
Beside Bisu is still 50/50 with Brood War and StarCraft 2 while others are most 80% SC2 and 20% BW.
And oh in BW, Terran was the defensive race, Protoss was the aggressive one. In SC2, the whole dyanamics have shifted vice versa since Siege Tanks are nerfed to oblivion, Terran getting a shitload of harass oriented units while Protoss have lost pretty much most of their offensive aspects and Bisu took advantage of them.
As many have said in the thread, he would fare much better if he switched races because the race as a whole don't reward aggressive plays nearly as much as its older brother.
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Good read. EffOrt fighting!!!
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Agreed. The op is a good writeup of what happened yet, but it should be pointed out that the players are not fully dedicated to the transition yet, considering that they still have to be prepared for bw games. So it's not like the players tried hard for several months and this is the result, it's more like the players slowsly started to become more familiar with sc2.
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To be honest, quite disappointing that he didn't qualify for the osl :/
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The most impressive player for me is  JangBi. Sure he failed the preliminary for WCS but his loss was a PvP. He beat two GSL Zerg there. Although they are not high level Z ( Galaxy and Luvsic), considering that he is in OSL Final and should not practice SC2 at all right now, that is a very impressive result. He even has a strat named after him in SC2 strategy section (although the build was from his coach).
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On July 26 2012 01:46 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 01:35 vthree wrote:On July 26 2012 00:22 Condor Hero wrote:On July 26 2012 00:19 Chaggi wrote:
When will this crappy hybrid proleague end anyways? I want to see them actually practice SC2 instead of trying to prepare for both. Yeah same, kinda annoyed the GSL players talking shit when Kespa players have to split their time between two games. Really really want to see Kespa devote everything they have, though the transition to SC2 hasn't been that smooth for the fans so I think hybrid Proleague will continue next season as well. what? Almost ALL the GSL players have been very complimentary of the Kespa players and have acknowledged that having to play both games is very tough. The only player I have seen talk shit was MKP when he mentioned Reality in his Code A interview. But that was said because Reality said he could beat any GSL Zerg just because he beat Symbol ( he did play well vs Symbol but if you look at the games, Symbol was playing pretty poorly) Agreed, symbol has the Team League/Individual League curse going on with him, nothing about him particularly impresses me anymore, but with that DRG looked terrible against naniwa, zergs seem to be slumping a little bit somehow. Reality played pretty good though, if symbol played how he can play he wouldn't of won though. Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 01:37 RinconH wrote:
Cool post but it'd be even cooler if there was some discussion of not just whether they are winning or losing but how they are playing the game.
My biggest hope for the BW influx is not that we will have guys who can train up to beat GSL players at their own game but rather guys who will change the game.
SC2 is supposed to be mechanically easier so I want to see guys with better mechanics playing all over the map, doing different splits/flanks/multi-pronged harrass etc. Well there is no real discussion to be had, most of the BW players are transitioning what all players did throughout the beta and first few seasons of GSL or doing cheesy builds built off of BW like hiding tech. Once they understand the game the real strategies will be coming out. You have to remember that it took a long time for BW to finally settle into a solid state, countless players redefined the game. I believe a few of the KeSPA players may crush GSL players at their own game, but I doubt any will bring something new to the table that change the matchups. At least before HoTS and that puts everything up in the air.
You might be right in that they may not change the metagame before HotS, but moreso than anywhere, Kespa teams tend to create their own styles. I fully expect that to shine once the expansion comes out and have these teams really change the way the game is played.
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My theory is that the players who have practiced BW the most also have the BW habits the most ingrained in them- mechanics, muscle memory, pathing, etc. So may be they have the hardest time unlearning playing BW.
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Jangbi doesn't get enough love... Two OSL finals in a row and eh doesn't make this list. He seems to be doing alright in SC2 too, better than Bisu, despite probably practicing mostly BW because of OSL unlike most of the other kespa players. Jangbi fighting.
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My guy Reality 2-0'd Symbol 
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On July 26 2012 03:01 Emon_ wrote:
If you ask me about any BW players record between 2009-2012, I can tell it by heart. And so can most people on TL. The scene was just that amazing. A thread like this wasn't ever necessary because the knowledge was assumed. This is quality thread but speaks more about the state of the scene than the actual games. I hope things get real when R3 of SPL starts
Yes it speaks about the state of the scene, but what it says isn't bad. The fact is that a lot of people aren't paying much attention to SPL because there are tons of other events going on, many of which have better play quality than the SPL has right now. There's so much SC2 going on it's basically impossible to follow all of it.
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Reality - Reality started with the Proleague Season 2 started out with a record 2-3 in the 1st round. In the 2nd round he had a better record for his Starcraft II games with a 2-1. First non-team game was in the OSL KeSPA Preliminaries was not very successful. Reality lost his very first match to StarDust 2-1. Reality didn't seem to be on anyone radar but then the magic happened. He went into the WCS where KESPA/Non-Kespa players were playing against each other. Beating Symbol 2-0 and Heart 2-1. Heart was the only person to take a game off of him during the WCS. He was the only KESPA player to make it through the preliminaries without being qualified. Reality seems like he maybe a force to reckon with. Time will only tell if he can play with the other big name Non-KESPA players.
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When I used to watch BW, best was one of the best players though I don't think he had any major wins... when did he become irrelevant?
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On July 26 2012 00:22 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 00:19 Chaggi wrote:
When will this crappy hybrid proleague end anyways? I want to see them actually practice SC2 instead of trying to prepare for both. Yeah same, kinda annoyed the GSL players talking shit when Kespa players have to split their time between two games. Really really want to see Kespa devote everything they have, though the transition to SC2 hasn't been that smooth for the fans so I think hybrid Proleague will continue next season as well.
Perhaps Kespa players shouldnt talk shit themselves. Interesting topic though. Wish both sides got along.
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you guys are taking these shit talking too seriously, its more of friendly shit talking, not mc vs idra.
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On July 26 2012 09:33 stalife wrote:
When I used to watch BW, best was one of the best players though I don't think he had any major wins... when did he become irrelevant?
Failing to secure a win in the PL final against Flash. And had a godly Protoss vs Terran streak only to be stopped by Flash.
He have made a name for himself as Choke Artist.
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Poor Bisu  . I hope he can improve quickly and fix himself or he's done for!
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EPT
