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MarcusRife
343 Posts
My point is that they don't understand what they want. You have to force them to use new and different maps, like in BW. Good thing that will soon happen much more with Kespa and their mapmakers coming in.[/QUOTE] I don't know how much that will help with the ladder or how much it will help foreigner mappers. As long as Blizzard maintains their control of things I don't think you are going to be satisfied. | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
On July 21 2012 04:31 MarcusRife wrote: I don't know how much that will help with the ladder or how much it will help foreigner mappers. As long as Blizzard maintains their control of things I don't think you are going to be satisfied. Those maps won't really get into ladder if Kespa acts like in BW. Or only in some weird changed form I don't want them to be in ladder anyway. For foreign mapmaking it means... well I could say it means the end of foreign mapmaking bar ESV now but then again everyone but ESV doesn't get their maps anywhere now anyways so nothing changes really. We only get more unimportant ^^ To be exact, ESV also only will get maps somewhere if they partner with Kespa or GSL. Everyone else still might have a chance if there is TL Map Contests in the future tho. But I don't care for ladder, I only care for the global pool of maps used in the big tournaments. And if the future maps from Korea are anything like the ones they made in BW I will be very satisfied. | ||
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MarcusRife
343 Posts
On July 21 2012 04:39 Ragoo wrote: But I don't care for ladder, I only care for the global pool of maps used in the big tournaments. And if the future maps from Korea are anything like the ones they made in BW I will be very satisfied. Up to now the ladder and global map pool have been strongly correlated. Kespa is not as independent any more. They have to play nice with GOM and Blizzard. BW days are over. The E-sport scene has changed. I don't know that they will go back. I think things will continue much the same way as they have. There will be evolution but I don't see the Kespa revolution that you see. We want the same thing just have different ideas about how to go about it. | ||
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
On July 21 2012 04:51 MarcusRife wrote: Up to now the ladder and global map pool have been strongly correlated. Kespa is not as independent any more. They have to play nice with GOM and Blizzard. BW days are over. The E-sport scene has changed. I don't know that they will go back. I think things will continue much the same way as they have. There will be evolution but I don't see the Kespa revolution that you see. We want the same thing just have different ideas about how to go about it. If Proleague would scrap the "new maps every season" conecpt for sc2 I will be sad as hell. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On July 21 2012 04:39 Ragoo wrote: Those maps won't really get into ladder if Kespa acts like in BW. Or only in some weird changed form I don't want them to be in ladder anyway. For foreign mapmaking it means... well I could say it means the end of foreign mapmaking bar ESV now but then again everyone but ESV doesn't get their maps anywhere now anyways so nothing changes really. We only get more unimportant ^^ To be exact, ESV also only will get maps somewhere if they partner with Kespa or GSL. Everyone else still might have a chance if there is TL Map Contests in the future tho. But I don't care for ladder, I only care for the global pool of maps used in the big tournaments. And if the future maps from Korea are anything like the ones they made in BW I will be very satisfied. You put too much faith in KeSPA controlling SC2. All signs point to that not happening. Many mappers are looking at the KeSPA mappers like ppl were looking at the KeSPA players (as gods who would take over the scene), like with the players I think everyone is about to find out they will not do so, there will be a lot of catch up to do. This is not BW, this is SC2. Never forget that. | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
On July 21 2012 04:51 MarcusRife wrote: Up to now the ladder and global map pool have been strongly correlated. Kespa is not as independent any more. They have to play nice with GOM and Blizzard. BW days are over. The E-sport scene has changed. I don't know that they will go back. I think things will continue much the same way as they have. There will be evolution but I don't see the Kespa revolution that you see. We want the same thing just have different ideas about how to go about it. Currently GSL uses only 2 Blizzard maps out of 8 and I don't see them using Condemned Ridge either. Also Kespa already started using 4 map map pool like BW and then there is no need to have stupid filler maps from Blizzard. The thing is that if you want to be really professional about SC 2 you just can't rely on Blizzard's mapmaking abilities. They are both too conservative (refusing to use half bases for some idiotic reason for example) and they just straight up suck at mapmaking. I don't see a reason why Kespa wouldn't use their own mapmakers and why they wouldn't produce high quality and innovative maps in the future. Like what exactly would make Kespa change their style?! On July 21 2012 05:29 Diamond wrote: You put too much faith in KeSPA controlling SC2. All signs point to that not happening. Who talked about controlling? I'm just saying they'll use their own mapmakers and continue with that like they did in BW. That's not controling anything bar their own leagues. Altho that would certainly mean that big foreign tournaments would use these maps as well, like they use GSL maps. What do you think will happen, Kespa stop working with their mapmakers and using Blizzard/ladder maps? I don't see a reason why they would do that. | ||
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
On July 20 2012 09:44 TheCreature wrote: I'm very disappointed in these maps. Most of them look fucking gorgeous, but thirds are impossible to take as protoss. Make maps where the third is some what decent for macro game protoss. Plus 1. Most of these maps are imbalanced as hell against toss and terran that doesnt go pure bio. Sorry zergs, we play this game too. Maps with wide open third bases are the equivalent of rocks at the third for you. KNOCK IT OFF! See Stephano vs Hero on Shakuras at NASL for a prime example. Not cool. | ||
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Johanaz
Denmark363 Posts
A lot of those maps have seen 50+ hours of work and have done well in tournaments... Not sure exactly where I'm going with this, maybe I just want to plug my own map: + Show Spoiler + Rusty Cage Here's a replay from a beta version of the map, featuring Protosser: DLMredBullX vs Protosser TvZ A couple of nifty screenshots: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zHdy9.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5nYXJ.jpg) Link to the Map Thread  | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On July 21 2012 05:32 Ragoo wrote: Altho that would certainly mean that big foreign tournaments would use these maps as well, like they use GSL maps. What do you think will happen, Kespa stop working with their mapmakers and using Blizzard/ladder maps? I don't see a reason why they would do that. GSL maps no longer are an auto add to tournaments. No one has picked up Whirlwind or Muspelheim for example. Very few picked up Atlantis, etc. This is no longer an era where one org dictates the pool for the global market, just some have stronger influences than others in certain regions (GSL/KeSPA for Korea, ESL for EU, and MLG for NA). | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
On July 21 2012 07:08 Diamond wrote: GSL maps no longer are an auto add to tournaments. No one has picked up Whirlwind or Muspelheim for example. Very few picked up Atlantis, etc. This is no longer an era where one org dictates the pool for the global market, just some have stronger influences than others in certain regions (GSL/KeSPA for Korea, ESL for EU, and MLG for NA). That's only because tournaments are f-ing slow at picking up new maps or changing anything (especially now that they don't need to kick completely broken maps out of the map pool like they had to in the past). MLG still uses Tal'Darim and Shakuras, IEM still uses Tal'Darim, Dreamhack hasn't changed anything either but only has a 5 map map pool now (hooray btw) and obviously WCS uses ladder maps. Unless you know something I don't for the future, things won't change and foreign tournaments will still use the maps from ladder or from Korean tournaments. I don't see ESL or MLG introducing new maps + Show Spoiler + In fact ESL kinda promised to use the MotM winner of january/february in IEM and I'm 99% sure this won't happen | ||
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
On July 21 2012 07:21 Ragoo wrote: That's only because tournaments are f-ing slow at picking up new maps or changing anything Ohana was picked up awfully fast as opposed to Metropolis, Whirlwind, and other such maps, iirc. | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
On July 21 2012 07:25 IronManSC wrote: Ohana was picked up awfully fast as opposed to Metropolis, Whirlwind, and other such maps, iirc. Ohana was first announced for ladder, then used in GSL. And every tournament obviously loves to use ladder maps if they are well made and used in GSL , so they picked it up asap  As far as I can remember Metropolis was picked up quite fast as well tho. But yea Whirlwind not really seen anywhere yet. | ||
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MarcusRife
343 Posts
On July 21 2012 06:32 Johanaz wrote: As the map maker I'm sad that my map gets downvoted by 75ish percent, especially if no one who voted took a closer look at the map. Not that I put any weight on those polls but still... A lot of those maps have seen 50+ hours of work and have done well in tournaments... Not sure exactly where I'm going with this, maybe I just want to plug my own map: + Show Spoiler + Rusty Cage Here's a replay from a beta version of the map, featuring Protosser: DLMredBullX vs Protosser TvZ A couple of nifty screenshots: + Show Spoiler + Link to the Map Thread I like Rusty Cage. Whatever that is worth.  | ||
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
On July 21 2012 08:10 MarcusRife wrote: I like Rusty Cage. Whatever that is worth. The 3rd is really far though. I love the tileset and aesthetics though. A work of art IMO. | ||
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
Having a natural that supports this should be a natural rule. Also the picture for Sidewinder is missing. | ||
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
On July 22 2012 16:34 dabom88 wrote: From what I've seen, I can't seem to figure out how Protoss would Forge Fast Expand on a few of these maps. I say this as a Terran Player, but Protoss should be able to FFE on all maps for PvZ without much difficulty except for the 6-Pool openers. Mind including pictures of how FFE wall offs should look like on some of these maps? Having a natural that supports this should be a natural rule. Also the picture for Sidewinder is missing. Which maps? I'm pretty sure you can FFE on all of these except for Dodongo, which has an in base expo, and possibly Odin and Sidewinder. But even in those cases, it looks like you can still do the wall from your main ramp old-school FFE. | ||
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wrl
United States209 Posts
In the case of this map, I liked the idea of a ramp->nexus ffe because it still has vulnerabilities. Given the current metagame this might no longer be acceptable, however. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/rV7aD.jpg) | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
Frigid Pass looks sickk | ||
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
Ordered from greatest percentage of 'yes' to least The Grid (76%) Spring (75%) Muspelheim (74%) Tanzanite (73%) Khaydaria (72%) Frigid Pass (69%) Afterglow (66%) Omnivium (63%) Silver Sands (62%) Odin (61%) Peaks of Alamar (53%) | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
Just saying people, you should message ESL and rage | ||
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