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This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed.
12:09 KST Page 98 |
everyone forgotten how slow queens off creep are? there offensiveness is nil, this discussion reminds me about complaints of the photo cannon in alpha, please take the changes with a pinch of salt and chill out.
Builds are all still viable, but zerg has a better range of low tier options to use v certain style builds we had them all-ready listed and how the queen buff "stops" its effectiveness and it's also been pointed out that the more the zerg sinks into queens, less drones, units techs he has opted for, in the long run that hurt more then the current "OMG i might die" syndrome.
personally for me this change has eased some "GG no re" scenario's that happen in the game. we had similar issues with other races, couple months in, such as the 1.1.1 v Protoss.
also do not displease as after few months Zerg late game proves to be too good (broodlord+infestor) then im sure thoes units or the way they work together will be alterd or races counters adjusted to be more effective. I do feel protosses and terrans counter to zerg late game of "win before they get there, or hope on a lucky * fight + Show Spoiler +
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On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this?
Well the queen range buff is not the cause of this change. The queenbuff made zergs realise that queens are damn awesome. Just like the upgrade buff (protoss) made protoss players realise how awesome their upgrades are.
The real problem are army strenghts. Muta ling bling was balanced against tank rine, but infestor + hive is not. It's damn cost efficiënt and it even destroys maxed terran armies. Zerg has the strongest macro mechanic, and this combined with their stronger army, makes them really hard to beat. That's why you see 3 base zergs destroying 3 base terrans in tournaments.
But I guess it will take some time before terrans realise this. Atm they really think that it's all the fault of the queenbuff. Meanwhile they are losing 200/200 vs 200/200 battles, and meanwhile they have 0 answer against broodlord infestor corruptor. But hey, it's because of the queen buff!!!
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On June 22 2012 03:04 BlitzerSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:03 LgN.EijZrA wrote:On June 22 2012 02:58 BlitzerSC wrote:On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this? The queen doesn't have to move if she wants to shoot to a hellion, it's not a big difference if there are only 2 queens but when you have 6 of them it change the game. Also you don't have to make the choice between units or drones anymore, so zerg just mass drones and it snowball out of control from there. It's not that hard to understand. Before the patch a terran could keep under control the number of workers via hellions but now he can't anymore because of queens. edit: keep in mind that those additional queens can be used to transfuse and spread creeps. I don't understand how that's a "HUGE" impact big enough to lose games over? I'm a Top Master Zerg and I lose to Terran often enough. Yes creep spread is better, I've seen tons of abusive builds to counter that including Raven banshee. Also I don't see why player's don't just go fast 3 CC since they know Zerg is only going to make drones. Yes there are Roach Ling all ins by I've seen a TON of quick siege tank builds hard counter it. I think Terrans need to stop whining and just come up with new openings. Don't forget in BW there were far more severe w/l swings...FAR MORE SEVERE! You don't see how massing drones and queens in early game doesn't change a game ? Sorry but you are not a master zerg. Also the idea of trying to keep up with zerg in economy without harassment is one of the dumbest thing i've ever heard LOL. But hey, you are a HIGH MASTER zerg so you must know the stuff you are talking about lmao.
Yes I am indeed High Master. Did you not see what PuMa did to the Zergs in MLG?
Even if a Zerg is massing queens you can still out micro them early on and just run through.
See GSL Ro.32 When MKP simply beat Yugioh with early hellions.
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4713 Posts
On June 22 2012 03:07 TibblesEvilCat wrote:everyone forgotten how slow queens off creep are? there offensiveness is nil, this discussion reminds me about complaints of the photo cannon in alpha, please take the changes with a pinch of salt and chill out. Builds are all still viable, but zerg has a better range of low tier options to use v certain style builds we had them all-ready listed and how the queen buff "stops" its effectiveness and it's also been pointed out that the more the zerg sinks into queens, less drones, units techs he has opted for, in the long run that hurt more then the current "OMG i might die" syndrome. personally for me this change has eased some "GG no re" scenario's that happen in the game. we had similar issues with other races, couple months in, such as the 1.1.1 v Protoss. also do not displease as after few months Zerg late game proves to be too good (broodlord+infestor) then im sure thoes units or the way they work together will be alterd or races counters adjusted to be more effective. I do feel protosses and terrans counter to zerg late game of "win before they get there, or hope on a lucky * fight + Show Spoiler +
Who cares how slow queens off creep are, the zerg isn't trying to kill you with queens, he is trying to protect his base and creeps spread long enough for his economy to kick in, after which his late game army kills you.
And no matter what you do, even if you play a super greedy 3 OC build, its still worst then the zergs 3 hatches because of larva mechanics, not to mention how vulnerable it is to roach or bane busts.
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On June 22 2012 03:07 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this? Well the queen range buff is not the cause of this change. The queenbuff made zergs realise that queens are damn awesome. Just like the upgrade buff (protoss) made protoss players realise how awesome their upgrades are. The real problem are army strenghts. Muta ling bling was balanced against tank rine, but infestor + hive is not. It's damn cost efficiënt and it even destroys maxed terran armies. Zerg has the strongest macro mechanic, and this combined with their stronger army, makes them really hard to beat. That's why you see 3 base zergs destroying 3 base terrans in tournaments. But I guess it will take some time before terrans realise this. Atm they really think that it's all the fault of the queenbuff. Meanwhile they are losing 200/200 vs 200/200 battles, and meanwhile they have 0 answer against broodlord infestor corruptor. But hey, it's because of the queen buff!!!
Ghosts counter Infestors.
Vikings counter Broodlords.
Just blew your mind.
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Gratz to Stephano because he is the one who showed that well-microed T3 Zerg > Protoss >>>> Terran.
He is the only SC2 revolutionist so far.
Back when Korean Zergs were trying mass muta in ZvT with little to no transition into infestors, the MU was Terran favoured.
At the time they switched into infestors ultra/broodlords, the MU couldn't be considerd imbalanced anymore.
After the ghost-nerf, the MU became slightly imbalanced in the late-game, but there were still a lot of t2 pressure options for Terran in order to get ahead into the late-game.
But the Queen buff was the nail in the coffin and turned a slightly imbalanced MU into a joke.
That's my protoss 2 cents.
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On June 22 2012 03:07 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this? Well the queen range buff is not the cause of this change. The queenbuff made zergs realise that queens are damn awesome. Just like the upgrade buff (protoss) made protoss players realise how awesome their upgrades are. The real problem are army strenghts. Muta ling bling was balanced against tank rine, but infestor + hive is not. It's damn cost efficiënt and it even destroys maxed terran armies. Zerg has the strongest macro mechanic, and this combined with their stronger army, makes them really hard to beat. That's why you see 3 base zergs destroying 3 base terrans in tournaments. But I guess it will take some time before terrans realise this. Atm they really think that it's all the fault of the queenbuff. Meanwhile they are losing 200/200 vs 200/200 battles, and meanwhile they have 0 answer against broodlord infestor corruptor. But hey, it's because of the queen buff!!!
How can it not be the fault of the queen buff? The only reason zerg can just forego muta ling bling and go straight to infestor hive so quickly is because the queen buff allows them to take 3 bases and 6 gases, using mainly queens as defense.
Infestor style was not as good as it is now because zerg had to either invest into roaches or some kind of larva spending in order to secure a third. Now it's just straight to infestor tech using a unit that spreads creep and has AA as the defense vs any early pressure.
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On June 22 2012 03:11 LgN.EijZrA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:07 Snowbear wrote:On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this? Well the queen range buff is not the cause of this change. The queenbuff made zergs realise that queens are damn awesome. Just like the upgrade buff (protoss) made protoss players realise how awesome their upgrades are. The real problem are army strenghts. Muta ling bling was balanced against tank rine, but infestor + hive is not. It's damn cost efficiënt and it even destroys maxed terran armies. Zerg has the strongest macro mechanic, and this combined with their stronger army, makes them really hard to beat. That's why you see 3 base zergs destroying 3 base terrans in tournaments. But I guess it will take some time before terrans realise this. Atm they really think that it's all the fault of the queenbuff. Meanwhile they are losing 200/200 vs 200/200 battles, and meanwhile they have 0 answer against broodlord infestor corruptor. But hey, it's because of the queen buff!!! Ghosts counter Infestors. Vikings counter Broodlords. Just blew your mind.
Vikings get countered by infestors.
Shooting the infestors two shots each take extremely large amounts of micro, and most of the time ghosts can't get close enough anyway
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On June 22 2012 03:10 LgN.EijZrA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:04 BlitzerSC wrote:On June 22 2012 03:03 LgN.EijZrA wrote:On June 22 2012 02:58 BlitzerSC wrote:On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this? The queen doesn't have to move if she wants to shoot to a hellion, it's not a big difference if there are only 2 queens but when you have 6 of them it change the game. Also you don't have to make the choice between units or drones anymore, so zerg just mass drones and it snowball out of control from there. It's not that hard to understand. Before the patch a terran could keep under control the number of workers via hellions but now he can't anymore because of queens. edit: keep in mind that those additional queens can be used to transfuse and spread creeps. I don't understand how that's a "HUGE" impact big enough to lose games over? I'm a Top Master Zerg and I lose to Terran often enough. Yes creep spread is better, I've seen tons of abusive builds to counter that including Raven banshee. Also I don't see why player's don't just go fast 3 CC since they know Zerg is only going to make drones. Yes there are Roach Ling all ins by I've seen a TON of quick siege tank builds hard counter it. I think Terrans need to stop whining and just come up with new openings. Don't forget in BW there were far more severe w/l swings...FAR MORE SEVERE! You don't see how massing drones and queens in early game doesn't change a game ? Sorry but you are not a master zerg. Also the idea of trying to keep up with zerg in economy without harassment is one of the dumbest thing i've ever heard LOL. But hey, you are a HIGH MASTER zerg so you must know the stuff you are talking about lmao. Yes I am indeed High Master. Did you not see what PuMa did to the Zergs in MLG? Even if a Zerg is massing queens you can still out micro them early on and just run through. See GSL Ro.32 When MKP simply beat Yugioh with early hellions.
And yet Puma still got 2-0d by Leenock, who went 0-4 in Code S. And lost to DRG. Yeah, next TvZ saviour, for sure.
MKP on TvZ: Q: How do you feel about the recent state of TvZ?
A: It's the most unbalanced match-up in history, before the patch (my) TvZ win-rate was around 60%, now it's plummeted to 10%. I'm really lost, why did this happen, I've studied alot of counter zerg strategies, and I haven't found any solutions yet.
In hindsight it's (strategies) all like that game on metropolis, playing to the late-game and setting up the prefect defense all around, it's kind of a solution with out a solution. I
I've watched alot of zergs that do well on ladder's records, alot of people basically haven't lost to Terran in a whole week. It's basically impossible for a terran with the same skill level as the zerg to win. Unless you all-in, or the opponent's psyche collapses, or your luck is just too good, it's hard to win. Even in practice I don't want to play TvZ, I always lose.
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On June 22 2012 03:12 bLo0d wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:07 Snowbear wrote:On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this? Well the queen range buff is not the cause of this change. The queenbuff made zergs realise that queens are damn awesome. Just like the upgrade buff (protoss) made protoss players realise how awesome their upgrades are. The real problem are army strenghts. Muta ling bling was balanced against tank rine, but infestor + hive is not. It's damn cost efficiënt and it even destroys maxed terran armies. Zerg has the strongest macro mechanic, and this combined with their stronger army, makes them really hard to beat. That's why you see 3 base zergs destroying 3 base terrans in tournaments. But I guess it will take some time before terrans realise this. Atm they really think that it's all the fault of the queenbuff. Meanwhile they are losing 200/200 vs 200/200 battles, and meanwhile they have 0 answer against broodlord infestor corruptor. But hey, it's because of the queen buff!!! How can it not be the fault of the queen buff? The only reason zerg can just forego muta ling bling and go straight to infestor hive so quickly is because the queen buff allows them to take 3 bases and 6 gases, using mainly queens as defense.
It's funny because MKP was severely behind against Stephano in MLG and still won with MMM + Splitting.
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On June 22 2012 03:11 LgN.EijZrA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:07 Snowbear wrote:On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this? Well the queen range buff is not the cause of this change. The queenbuff made zergs realise that queens are damn awesome. Just like the upgrade buff (protoss) made protoss players realise how awesome their upgrades are. The real problem are army strenghts. Muta ling bling was balanced against tank rine, but infestor + hive is not. It's damn cost efficiënt and it even destroys maxed terran armies. Zerg has the strongest macro mechanic, and this combined with their stronger army, makes them really hard to beat. That's why you see 3 base zergs destroying 3 base terrans in tournaments. But I guess it will take some time before terrans realise this. Atm they really think that it's all the fault of the queenbuff. Meanwhile they are losing 200/200 vs 200/200 battles, and meanwhile they have 0 answer against broodlord infestor corruptor. But hey, it's because of the queen buff!!! Ghosts counter Infestors. Vikings counter Broodlords. Just blew your mind.
Broodlings counter ghosts, corruptors counter vikings, fungal counters vikings. Your mind blowed?
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On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this?
Snowball effect. It's like saying Terran starting with 6 scv instead of 5 only change the opening, not the overall strategy of the MU.
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On June 22 2012 03:14 LgN.EijZrA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:12 bLo0d wrote:On June 22 2012 03:07 Snowbear wrote:On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this? Well the queen range buff is not the cause of this change. The queenbuff made zergs realise that queens are damn awesome. Just like the upgrade buff (protoss) made protoss players realise how awesome their upgrades are. The real problem are army strenghts. Muta ling bling was balanced against tank rine, but infestor + hive is not. It's damn cost efficiënt and it even destroys maxed terran armies. Zerg has the strongest macro mechanic, and this combined with their stronger army, makes them really hard to beat. That's why you see 3 base zergs destroying 3 base terrans in tournaments. But I guess it will take some time before terrans realise this. Atm they really think that it's all the fault of the queenbuff. Meanwhile they are losing 200/200 vs 200/200 battles, and meanwhile they have 0 answer against broodlord infestor corruptor. But hey, it's because of the queen buff!!! How can it not be the fault of the queen buff? The only reason zerg can just forego muta ling bling and go straight to infestor hive so quickly is because the queen buff allows them to take 3 bases and 6 gases, using mainly queens as defense. It's funny because MKP was severely behind against Stephano in MLG and still won with MMM + Splitting.
Because MKP is 10x better than Stephano is mechanically? The two aren't on the same level. MKP was behind because of the insanity that is the TvZ metagame right now, not because Stephano did some insane outplay.
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4713 Posts
On June 22 2012 03:11 LgN.EijZrA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:07 Snowbear wrote:On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this? Well the queen range buff is not the cause of this change. The queenbuff made zergs realise that queens are damn awesome. Just like the upgrade buff (protoss) made protoss players realise how awesome their upgrades are. The real problem are army strenghts. Muta ling bling was balanced against tank rine, but infestor + hive is not. It's damn cost efficiënt and it even destroys maxed terran armies. Zerg has the strongest macro mechanic, and this combined with their stronger army, makes them really hard to beat. That's why you see 3 base zergs destroying 3 base terrans in tournaments. But I guess it will take some time before terrans realise this. Atm they really think that it's all the fault of the queenbuff. Meanwhile they are losing 200/200 vs 200/200 battles, and meanwhile they have 0 answer against broodlord infestor corruptor. But hey, it's because of the queen buff!!! Ghosts counter Infestors. Vikings counter Broodlords. Just blew your mind.
In theory yes, in reality it all comes down to control, it can go either way. If Infestors get fungals of on your ghosts you can kiss them goodbye as the Broodlords swarm them with broodlings, or the ultralisks cleave them to bits.
Also, ghosts are way less effective vs infestors given how huge the buggers are, at least that's the case after the EMP nerf, so you need a big mass of ghosts, and it isn't viable to get a big mass of ghosts any more given how terrible they are against anything else given how severe the snipe nerf was.
How about you watch some more GSL before you post stupid shit?
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I say we make the pdd stop broodlings just like before to nerf the broodlords a little 
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On June 22 2012 03:13 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:10 LgN.EijZrA wrote:On June 22 2012 03:04 BlitzerSC wrote:On June 22 2012 03:03 LgN.EijZrA wrote:On June 22 2012 02:58 BlitzerSC wrote:On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this? The queen doesn't have to move if she wants to shoot to a hellion, it's not a big difference if there are only 2 queens but when you have 6 of them it change the game. Also you don't have to make the choice between units or drones anymore, so zerg just mass drones and it snowball out of control from there. It's not that hard to understand. Before the patch a terran could keep under control the number of workers via hellions but now he can't anymore because of queens. edit: keep in mind that those additional queens can be used to transfuse and spread creeps. I don't understand how that's a "HUGE" impact big enough to lose games over? I'm a Top Master Zerg and I lose to Terran often enough. Yes creep spread is better, I've seen tons of abusive builds to counter that including Raven banshee. Also I don't see why player's don't just go fast 3 CC since they know Zerg is only going to make drones. Yes there are Roach Ling all ins by I've seen a TON of quick siege tank builds hard counter it. I think Terrans need to stop whining and just come up with new openings. Don't forget in BW there were far more severe w/l swings...FAR MORE SEVERE! You don't see how massing drones and queens in early game doesn't change a game ? Sorry but you are not a master zerg. Also the idea of trying to keep up with zerg in economy without harassment is one of the dumbest thing i've ever heard LOL. But hey, you are a HIGH MASTER zerg so you must know the stuff you are talking about lmao. Yes I am indeed High Master. Did you not see what PuMa did to the Zergs in MLG? Even if a Zerg is massing queens you can still out micro them early on and just run through. See GSL Ro.32 When MKP simply beat Yugioh with early hellions. And yet Puma still got 2-0d by Leenock, who went 0-4 in Code S. And lost to DRG. Yeah, next TvZ saviour, for sure. MKP on TvZ: Q: How do you feel about the recent state of TvZ? A: It's the most unbalanced match-up in history, before the patch (my) TvZ win-rate was around 60%, now it's plummeted to 10%. I'm really lost, why did this happen, I've studied alot of counter zerg strategies, and I haven't found any solutions yet. In hindsight it's (strategies) all like that game on metropolis, playing to the late-game and setting up the prefect defense all around, it's kind of a solution with out a solution. I I've watched alot of zergs that do well on ladder's records, alot of people basically haven't lost to Terran in a whole week. It's basically impossible for a terran with the same skill level as the zerg to win. Unless you all-in, or the opponent's psyche collapses, or your luck is just too good, it's hard to win. Even in practice I don't want to play TvZ, I always lose.
Yeah that Leenock kid whose ZvTs' his best MU.
Yeah that kid that WON MLG over MvP when MVP was winning everything.
Pshh that kid sucks. Right?
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The underlying problem is that the zerg's ability to pretty much insta remax or do a complete tech switch is supposed to be offset by a terran army's ability to trade well and thus do damage in between big battles. As it stands, the lategame infestor/BL/corrupter mix makes trading evenly or favorably really hard for terran to do. Before the patch, terrans were able to harass and do enough damage to prevent that mix from coming out too often. But with the queen buff, zergs now have to spend less on defence and can thus drone really heavily. I think the core problem is the lategame rather than the queen buff. To use an analogy, if a room in your house was infested with cockroaches, would it be wiser to just board up the room or call an exterminator.
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On June 22 2012 03:15 LgN.EijZrA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:13 Shiori wrote:On June 22 2012 03:10 LgN.EijZrA wrote:On June 22 2012 03:04 BlitzerSC wrote:On June 22 2012 03:03 LgN.EijZrA wrote:On June 22 2012 02:58 BlitzerSC wrote:On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this? The queen doesn't have to move if she wants to shoot to a hellion, it's not a big difference if there are only 2 queens but when you have 6 of them it change the game. Also you don't have to make the choice between units or drones anymore, so zerg just mass drones and it snowball out of control from there. It's not that hard to understand. Before the patch a terran could keep under control the number of workers via hellions but now he can't anymore because of queens. edit: keep in mind that those additional queens can be used to transfuse and spread creeps. I don't understand how that's a "HUGE" impact big enough to lose games over? I'm a Top Master Zerg and I lose to Terran often enough. Yes creep spread is better, I've seen tons of abusive builds to counter that including Raven banshee. Also I don't see why player's don't just go fast 3 CC since they know Zerg is only going to make drones. Yes there are Roach Ling all ins by I've seen a TON of quick siege tank builds hard counter it. I think Terrans need to stop whining and just come up with new openings. Don't forget in BW there were far more severe w/l swings...FAR MORE SEVERE! You don't see how massing drones and queens in early game doesn't change a game ? Sorry but you are not a master zerg. Also the idea of trying to keep up with zerg in economy without harassment is one of the dumbest thing i've ever heard LOL. But hey, you are a HIGH MASTER zerg so you must know the stuff you are talking about lmao. Yes I am indeed High Master. Did you not see what PuMa did to the Zergs in MLG? Even if a Zerg is massing queens you can still out micro them early on and just run through. See GSL Ro.32 When MKP simply beat Yugioh with early hellions. And yet Puma still got 2-0d by Leenock, who went 0-4 in Code S. And lost to DRG. Yeah, next TvZ saviour, for sure. MKP on TvZ: Q: How do you feel about the recent state of TvZ? A: It's the most unbalanced match-up in history, before the patch (my) TvZ win-rate was around 60%, now it's plummeted to 10%. I'm really lost, why did this happen, I've studied alot of counter zerg strategies, and I haven't found any solutions yet. In hindsight it's (strategies) all like that game on metropolis, playing to the late-game and setting up the prefect defense all around, it's kind of a solution with out a solution. I I've watched alot of zergs that do well on ladder's records, alot of people basically haven't lost to Terran in a whole week. It's basically impossible for a terran with the same skill level as the zerg to win. Unless you all-in, or the opponent's psyche collapses, or your luck is just too good, it's hard to win. Even in practice I don't want to play TvZ, I always lose. Yeah that Leenock kid whose ZvTs' his best MU. Yeah that kid that WON MLG over MvP when MVP was winning everything. Pshh that kid sucks. Right?
Lately, yes. He sucks utterly.
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On June 22 2012 03:07 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this? Well the queen range buff is not the cause of this change. The queenbuff made zergs realise that queens are damn awesome. Just like the upgrade buff (protoss) made protoss players realise how awesome their upgrades are. The real problem are army strenghts. Muta ling bling was balanced against tank rine, but infestor + hive is not. It's damn cost efficiënt and it even destroys maxed terran armies. Zerg has the strongest macro mechanic, and this combined with their stronger army, makes them really hard to beat. That's why you see 3 base zergs destroying 3 base terrans in tournaments. But I guess it will take some time before terrans realise this. Atm they really think that it's all the fault of the queenbuff. Meanwhile they are losing 200/200 vs 200/200 battles, and meanwhile they have 0 answer against broodlord infestor corruptor. But hey, it's because of the queen buff!!!
Well terrans could still beats zergs by relying on constant pressure.
With the queen buff they are cost effective against any early attack, get a free third base and the creep reaching the terran base at 13 minutes has become standard. You can't really say it just changed the opening of the match-up when it has such huge implications in the economy and map control zergs get.
Its a layered problem and what you said about the maxed armies is true, but its the queen buff that really tipped the scales.
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On June 22 2012 03:11 LgN.EijZrA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:07 Snowbear wrote:On June 22 2012 02:55 LgN.EijZrA wrote:
Explain to me in vivid detail how queen range changed the MU other than the opening.
Can anyone please comment on this? Well the queen range buff is not the cause of this change. The queenbuff made zergs realise that queens are damn awesome. Just like the upgrade buff (protoss) made protoss players realise how awesome their upgrades are. The real problem are army strenghts. Muta ling bling was balanced against tank rine, but infestor + hive is not. It's damn cost efficiënt and it even destroys maxed terran armies. Zerg has the strongest macro mechanic, and this combined with their stronger army, makes them really hard to beat. That's why you see 3 base zergs destroying 3 base terrans in tournaments. But I guess it will take some time before terrans realise this. Atm they really think that it's all the fault of the queenbuff. Meanwhile they are losing 200/200 vs 200/200 battles, and meanwhile they have 0 answer against broodlord infestor corruptor. But hey, it's because of the queen buff!!! Ghosts counter Infestors. Vikings counter Broodlords. Just blew your mind.
the fact that stupid players like yourself can get a decent ladder rating is the proof zerg is absurdly overpowered. like you dont even realise the players u beat are better than you. to quote Ryung: even na ladder zergs are unbeatable, they all feel like stephano. what the hell are those posts seriously. every single terran goes 3cc nowadays, hellion banshee is th emost common opening. im starting to believe u did get ur account leveled, that or na ladder is even worse than what i thought/knew
and btw infestors are so absurd they might as well be hardcounter to ghosts, and mass transfuse outdps vikings until theres 30 of them
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EPT
