On June 15 2012 02:44 glzElectromaster wrote: I don't understand why people are complaining about them being "whiny". Sure, they have their opinions on balance. There's not going to say "the game is always completely balanced". And they don't bring those up themselves. The interviewer asked specifically about the zerg buff to each of them. They'll just look dumb saying that the buff did nothing because it did do a lot. They are the top players of the world for sure, and they play a heck more than most of us do against opponents of the same caliber. I honestly think that the professionals' inputs are what's going to make the game better, so I'd rather have them discuss it publicly (although I do agree that it should be done somewhere other than a post-game interview -.-)
Interesting ideas presented by both of them, although the zerg larvae nerf sounds a little too absurd, although it won't be too hard to get around it by creating more macro hatches (I think Genius wanted to point out how zerg doesn't really need too many production buildings). It was done in broodwar, so it's not impossible at all, but it might be interesting to see how it'll affect the game.
Won't be too hard???LOL
Nerfing the larvae inject is literally nerfing the macro mechanics and the production of zerg. Larva is the basis of the zerg economy and army.
On June 15 2012 02:43 darkness wrote: There is a problem if even MVP thinks Zerg is, in his opinion, kind of overpowered. I never understood why Blizzard went from 3 to 5 range queens instead of just 4 to see how it is like, then adjust if needed.
Tbh do you remember back when taldarim was first announced and MVP said terran was the weakest race? That was when gsl was still mostly korean terrans and won most championships in major tournaments like every single major tournament a terran won except like a couple every once in awhile lol.
Considering both mvp/nestea both complain about balance a lot even when it's favoring their race it's hard to take either of them to seriously sometimes when it comes to balance.
I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
On June 15 2012 01:54 Makura wrote: Zerg seems strong now but if the reasoning has to do with their ability to hold all ins easily now... doesnt that mean terrans are just all in'ing too much when they shouldnt be?
They have to try to punish [not necessarily ending the game] the zerg for being greedy and droning because they'll be at a disadvantage going into the late game, economy wise and army composition wise. If harass and late game doesn't work, why shouldn't they resort to more all ins? Why play harder and longer just to lose?
Exactly right. But you will never get an honest answer to your question, because Zerg is happy the way it is. Terran early game has been nerfed into the ground, late game has always sucked but ghost nerf made it even worse. Now with queen buff and easier scouting they can feel free to drone to 80 almost every single game without any worry of pressure.
On June 15 2012 02:44 glzElectromaster wrote: I don't understand why people are complaining about them being "whiny". Sure, they have their opinions on balance. There's not going to say "the game is always completely balanced". And they don't bring those up themselves. The interviewer asked specifically about the zerg buff to each of them. They'll just look dumb saying that the buff did nothing because it did do a lot. They are the top players of the world for sure, and they play a heck more than most of us do against opponents of the same caliber. I honestly think that the professionals' inputs are what's going to make the game better, so I'd rather have them discuss it publicly (although I do agree that it should be done somewhere other than a post-game interview -.-)
Interesting ideas presented by both of them, although the zerg larvae nerf sounds a little too absurd, although it won't be too hard to get around it by creating more macro hatches (I think Genius wanted to point out how zerg doesn't really need too many production buildings). It was done in broodwar, so it's not impossible at all, but it might be interesting to see how it'll affect the game.
Won't be too hard???LOL
Nerfing the larvae inject is literally nerfing the macro mechanics and the production of zerg. Larva is the basis of the zerg economy and army.
Kinda sounds like when they nerfed barracks build time to deal with ONE OPENER, thus setting back the entire Terran tech tree... but don't worry, Blizzard is not going to nerf Zerg at all just before the Zerg expansion comes out, you will be safe for a while at least.
On June 15 2012 00:29 Bagration wrote: It's definitely an indicator that something may be off when the world's best player is complaining about balance... :|
Congrats MVP and Genius
April 2011 before blue flamme, ghost, thor nerfs,etc Terran is the weakest race...
And if you actually bothered to watch the video, he says it's due to maps, not some kind of inherent weakness of Terran. April was around when GSL finally dropped some maps like Steppes, Jungle Basin, etc. in favor of bigger maps like Terminus, Crevasse, and Tal'Darim. It allowed Zerg in particular to more easily defend a lot of Terran aggression that there was a massive amount of complaining about (some of it legitimate, the early maps were terrible) at the time.
What we're dealing with now is a series of consistent buffs to the other races and nerfs to Terran that some of us believe may have reached a tipping point. It's not guaranteed by any means that the game is actually imbalanced against Terran since we still need some time to tell, but right now a lot of us feel that we have to play significantly better than our opponents of the other races to win. Mvp is saying that in TvZ, if the players have the same skill and the Zerg doesn't fuck up, Zerg wins because Terran has been nerfed too much and Zerg has been buffed too much. Maybe there's a revolutionist out there that will help us out by coming up with some great new builds, but maybe there isn't. Right now though, Terrans are frustrated across the board.
On June 15 2012 02:54 namste wrote: I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
What interview did you read?
Why were you going for third place?
I picked a Zerg but since the finals, I hadn't played a single TvZ. So I had no idea how strong Zerg was in the current metagame. I did really badly against Zerg in practice so I couldn’t be certain about winning. I came to the studio thinking that I should avoid straight losses at least.
Lately, there is talk of Zerg being OP.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
How do you think it will be for you to take on a top level Zerg?
I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately. Unless I come up with a new strategy or build, it’ll stay like that. The Terran race needs a revolutionist.
Before the match, you said that the six queen build is very strong
I tried playing Zerg on the ladder and met a lot of barcode Terrans. All those Terrans opted for an all-in build. I defended all of those all-ins with the six queen build. Unless, it’s a super early marine/scv cheese rush, six queens can hold anything.
On June 15 2012 02:54 namste wrote: I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
I picked a Zerg but since the finals, I hadn't played a single TvZ. So I had no idea how strong Zerg was in the current metagame. I did really badly against Zerg in practice so I couldn’t be certain about winning. I came to the studio thinking that I should avoid straight losses at least.
Lately, there is talk of Zerg being OP.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
How do you think it will be for you to take on a top level Zerg?
I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately. Unless I come up with a new strategy or build, it’ll stay like that. The Terran race needs a revolutionist.
Before the match, you said that the six queen build is very strong
I tried playing Zerg on the ladder and met a lot of barcode Terrans. All those Terrans opted for an all-in build. I defended all of those all-ins with the six queen build. Unless, it’s a super early marine/scv cheese rush, six queens can hold anything.
How is that whine? He's just stating facts for the most part (him not doing well vs zerg etc). If there's anyone who has an idea what hes talking about its MVP. Can you disprove his points?
On June 15 2012 02:44 glzElectromaster wrote: I don't understand why people are complaining about them being "whiny". Sure, they have their opinions on balance. There's not going to say "the game is always completely balanced". And they don't bring those up themselves. The interviewer asked specifically about the zerg buff to each of them. They'll just look dumb saying that the buff did nothing because it did do a lot. They are the top players of the world for sure, and they play a heck more than most of us do against opponents of the same caliber. I honestly think that the professionals' inputs are what's going to make the game better, so I'd rather have them discuss it publicly (although I do agree that it should be done somewhere other than a post-game interview -.-)
Interesting ideas presented by both of them, although the zerg larvae nerf sounds a little too absurd, although it won't be too hard to get around it by creating more macro hatches (I think Genius wanted to point out how zerg doesn't really need too many production buildings). It was done in broodwar, so it's not impossible at all, but it might be interesting to see how it'll affect the game.
Won't be too hard???LOL
Nerfing the larvae inject is literally nerfing the macro mechanics and the production of zerg. Larva is the basis of the zerg economy and army.
Kinda sounds like when they nerfed barracks build time to deal with ONE OPENER, thus setting back the entire Terran tech tree... but don't worry, Blizzard is not going to nerf Zerg at all just before the Zerg expansion comes out, you will be safe for a while at least.
Which opener are you talking about?
Even when the barrack time was nerfed, it was Gom TvT and the era where terran were owning zergs and toss left and right.
On June 15 2012 02:44 glzElectromaster wrote: I don't understand why people are complaining about them being "whiny". Sure, they have their opinions on balance. There's not going to say "the game is always completely balanced". And they don't bring those up themselves. The interviewer asked specifically about the zerg buff to each of them. They'll just look dumb saying that the buff did nothing because it did do a lot. They are the top players of the world for sure, and they play a heck more than most of us do against opponents of the same caliber. I honestly think that the professionals' inputs are what's going to make the game better, so I'd rather have them discuss it publicly (although I do agree that it should be done somewhere other than a post-game interview -.-)
Interesting ideas presented by both of them, although the zerg larvae nerf sounds a little too absurd, although it won't be too hard to get around it by creating more macro hatches (I think Genius wanted to point out how zerg doesn't really need too many production buildings). It was done in broodwar, so it's not impossible at all, but it might be interesting to see how it'll affect the game.
Won't be too hard???LOL
Nerfing the larvae inject is literally nerfing the macro mechanics and the production of zerg. Larva is the basis of the zerg economy and army.
Kinda sounds like when they nerfed barracks build time to deal with ONE OPENER, thus setting back the entire Terran tech tree... but don't worry, Blizzard is not going to nerf Zerg at all just before the Zerg expansion comes out, you will be safe for a while at least.
It would have a way bigger impact then that. The barracks is 1 building, nerfing larva mechanic would change the whole way zergs need to play since the whole race is build around that mechanic.
On June 15 2012 02:54 namste wrote: I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
I picked a Zerg but since the finals, I hadn't played a single TvZ. So I had no idea how strong Zerg was in the current metagame. I did really badly against Zerg in practice so I couldn’t be certain about winning. I came to the studio thinking that I should avoid straight losses at least.
Lately, there is talk of Zerg being OP.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
How do you think it will be for you to take on a top level Zerg?
I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately. Unless I come up with a new strategy or build, it’ll stay like that. The Terran race needs a revolutionist.
Before the match, you said that the six queen build is very strong
I tried playing Zerg on the ladder and met a lot of barcode Terrans. All those Terrans opted for an all-in build. I defended all of those all-ins with the six queen build. Unless, it’s a super early marine/scv cheese rush, six queens can hold anything.
How is any of this whining ?. He just stated his personal experience .Which he was asked about...
On June 15 2012 02:54 namste wrote: I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
What interview did you read?
Why were you going for third place?
I picked a Zerg but since the finals, I hadn't played a single TvZ. So I had no idea how strong Zerg was in the current metagame. I did really badly against Zerg in practice so I couldn’t be certain about winning. I came to the studio thinking that I should avoid straight losses at least.
Lately, there is talk of Zerg being OP.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
How do you think it will be for you to take on a top level Zerg?
I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately. Unless I come up with a new strategy or build, it’ll stay like that. The Terran race needs a revolutionist.
Before the match, you said that the six queen build is very strong
I tried playing Zerg on the ladder and met a lot of barcode Terrans. All those Terrans opted for an all-in build. I defended all of those all-ins with the six queen build. Unless, it’s a super early marine/scv cheese rush, six queens can hold anything.
How is that whine? If there's anyone who has an idea what hes talking about its MVP. Can you disprove his points?
When he said we got nothing we can do against zerg, he was whining.
Also, six queen build can hold ANYTHING??? Wow i did not know that then why zergs are not going 6 queen build all the way????
Please eventhough its MVP you should know whether a player is whining or not.
On June 15 2012 02:44 glzElectromaster wrote: I don't understand why people are complaining about them being "whiny". Sure, they have their opinions on balance. There's not going to say "the game is always completely balanced". And they don't bring those up themselves. The interviewer asked specifically about the zerg buff to each of them. They'll just look dumb saying that the buff did nothing because it did do a lot. They are the top players of the world for sure, and they play a heck more than most of us do against opponents of the same caliber. I honestly think that the professionals' inputs are what's going to make the game better, so I'd rather have them discuss it publicly (although I do agree that it should be done somewhere other than a post-game interview -.-)
Interesting ideas presented by both of them, although the zerg larvae nerf sounds a little too absurd, although it won't be too hard to get around it by creating more macro hatches (I think Genius wanted to point out how zerg doesn't really need too many production buildings). It was done in broodwar, so it's not impossible at all, but it might be interesting to see how it'll affect the game.
Won't be too hard???LOL
Nerfing the larvae inject is literally nerfing the macro mechanics and the production of zerg. Larva is the basis of the zerg economy and army.
Kinda sounds like when they nerfed barracks build time to deal with ONE OPENER, thus setting back the entire Terran tech tree... but don't worry, Blizzard is not going to nerf Zerg at all just before the Zerg expansion comes out, you will be safe for a while at least.
It would have a way bigger impact then that. The barracks is 1 building, nerfing larva mechanic would change the whole way zergs need to play since the whole race is build around that mechanic.
It doesn't have to be a huge nerf 5 seconds longer before injects spawn larva or something would probably suffice. And this would not make any more difference than the rax buildtime . It probably would have the same impact slow the Zerg ( like it should ) a bit.
On June 14 2012 21:56 Micket wrote: Inject nerf will be a MASSIVE nerf to zerg lol. You can't produce drones as quickly, its basically playing with a 20% economic handicap.
if blizzard nerfs inject I'm gonna switch to protoss (btw thx genius I mean fuck you) I hope every other zerg does the same then
On June 15 2012 02:54 namste wrote: I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
What interview did you read?
Why were you going for third place?
I picked a Zerg but since the finals, I hadn't played a single TvZ. So I had no idea how strong Zerg was in the current metagame. I did really badly against Zerg in practice so I couldn’t be certain about winning. I came to the studio thinking that I should avoid straight losses at least.
Lately, there is talk of Zerg being OP.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
How do you think it will be for you to take on a top level Zerg?
I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately. Unless I come up with a new strategy or build, it’ll stay like that. The Terran race needs a revolutionist.
Before the match, you said that the six queen build is very strong
I tried playing Zerg on the ladder and met a lot of barcode Terrans. All those Terrans opted for an all-in build. I defended all of those all-ins with the six queen build. Unless, it’s a super early marine/scv cheese rush, six queens can hold anything.
How is that whine? If there's anyone who has an idea what hes talking about its MVP. Can you disprove his points?
When he said we got nothing we can do against zerg, he was whining.
Also, six queen build can hold ANYTHING??? Wow i did not know that then why zergs are not going 6 queen build all the way????
Please eventhough its MVP you should know whether a player is whining or not.
You have no idea what MVP has been trough, if he said he couldn't win any game vs Zerg and couldn't do anything, then you better believe he couldn't do anything.
And you know a lot of pro gamers off race form time to time to gain insight on the other race, and fish for ideas on how to counter a particular thing, if Mvp played Zerg and could defend any early aggression with a 6 queen build then that is pretty damning. If out of all the terrans that MVP meet on ladder if no one could find a pressure or all-in build to kill or challenge his 6 queen build, then it is quite worrisome.
On June 14 2012 23:33 Poisonblack wrote: the king of terran is also the king of whining.. unsurprisingly
Your kidding. He has the balls to say the truth and how insane hard terran has it to win vs zerg (or protoss). Its just crazy what terran is forced to do and micro flawlessly or they just crumble.
MVP interviews make me depressed. He's suppose to tell all the terrans that the race is fine and the zergs and protosses are just playing really well lately ):
On June 15 2012 00:29 Bagration wrote: It's definitely an indicator that something may be off when the world's best player is complaining about balance... :|
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Terrans and Tosses have inherited the Kong line whereas DRG has inherited the Dong line. Thou shall take complete responsibility for all your losses and wins.
EPT
