Tell us how you feel about advancing to ro16 in first place
I thought I was lucky to be in this group. So I did expect for myself to advance to ro16 but once it was time for me to play today, I started to feel anxious. Fortunately, I was able to advance after some great games and I’m really happy about that.
What made you confident about advancing to ro16?
I felt that there weren’t any Terrans in my group that could give me any trouble.
Why did you leave MVP?
I feel that Coach Choi’s style didn’t mesh well with me. I left the team after long consideration. The coach’s and my personalities clashed a little bit too much. It’s not that I had a particular problem within the team that made me leave.
When did you decide to leave the team?
I’ve actually been thinking about leaving for a long time. However, every time I tried to, the coach persuaded me out of it but this time, that wasn’t possible and the decision was made.
What plans do you have for the future?
For now, I will focus on GSL and then work on finding a team to join. I think I’ll try to find a foreign team.
Wasn’t practice difficult?
It’s been a while since I left the team. I practised with friends at home mostly. There are players on the ladder to practise with so I shouldn’t have much trouble at least for now.
Is there a team you have in mind?
I’m in a situation where I have to earn every cent I can. Therefore, I want to find a team which can pay me a wage and guarantees my participation in overseas tournaments.
What’s your goal for this season?
I went as far as the finals in Season 1 but afterwards, I felt like taking a break. Then, I was eliminated early in Season 2 which made me realise that staying in the league is a good thing. So, this season, I want to get as far as possible.
Anyone you want to face in ro16?
I was eliminated by Naniwa last season so I want to avoid him.
Lately, Zerg is doing really well compared to other races, how do you feel about that?
Zerg is so good right now. I’ve been telling David Kim for a long time to reduce the observer build time and cost as well as nerf larva inject to three larvae per inject and finally, the observer has been patched. The inject nerf should be coming along.
Anything to add?
I want to thank FXOasd, NSHSSculp and LiquidTaeja for practising with me and I hope that San works hard and gets into Code S. He’s certainly skilled enough to be in Code S.
How does it feel to advance to ro16 in second place?
My original goal was to get third place but luckily, I was able to advance. My only regret is that I had to take down Happy to do it.
Why were you going for third place?
I picked a Zerg but since the finals, I hadn't played a single TvZ. So I had no idea how strong Zerg was in the current metagame. I did really badly against Zerg in practice so I couldn’t be certain about winning. I came to the studio thinking that I should avoid straight losses at least.
You actually lost to Protoss rather than Zerg.
I had faith in Happy so I didn’t practise TvP. Then, I was taken aback when Genius advanced to the winner’s match. Our original plan was for me to advance through the winner’s match and for Happy to advance through the final match. I was really stunned when Happy lost his first match.
Lately, there is talk of Zerg being OP.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
How do you think it will be for you to take on a top level Zerg?
I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately. Unless I come up with a new strategy or build, it’ll stay like that. The Terran race needs a revolutionist.
Before the match, you said that the six queen build is very strong
I tried playing Zerg on the ladder and met a lot of barcode Terrans. All those Terrans opted for an all-in build. I defended all of those all-ins with the six queen build. Unless, it’s a super early marine/scv cheese rush, six queens can hold anything.
You won your game against Line.
Line used a lot of roaches in Set 1. So I expected him to stick to that style in the subsequent sets and adapted to his play. Line is a rather aggressive Zerg which is why I was able to win.
The Nestea award was given out for the first time this season, aren’t you jealous?
The Nestea award is given to players who have been in Code S for 10 seasons in a row. If I hadn’t messed up along the way, I could have gotten one too. I will work hard in the future to win this award.
There’s talk that a fifth time champion should be given a special award, how do you feel about that?
I think winning four times is hard enough already. So it would’ve been nice for the award to have been given when I last won. I think it would be very meaningful to receive an award for a fifth championship. Seeing how I’m the one most likely to, I hope I’m the first person to get that fifth championship.
Is there something you want for the fifth championship award?
A golden keyboard. Three wins in the OSL meant you got a mouse so five wins should be enough for a keyboard at least, right?
What is your goal this season?
I’ve achieved my goal for this season already (laugh). I’m really happy with advancing to ro16 and since I fulfilled my first goal, my next goal is ro8. I hope I get TvTs in ro16. TvT is so much easier in comparison at the moment.
OSL is switching to Starcraft 2 next season
Since I was the champion of the first season of GSL (T/N: not counting the first three open seasons) , I hope to have a repeat of that in OSL. I hope I get to face Zero (T/N: I previously said it might be a typo of Fantasy's name but nope, it's Zero. thanks, Dragonborn). I say this because we were really close in Starcraft 1 and I hope to see him advance to the playoffs.
Anything to add?
Lately, both Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2 progamers are having a hard time. Some are debating whether they should retire. However, there are many who are not able to because they are afraid. I was afraid when I gave up Starcraft 1 as well. That’s why I wasn’t able to stop playing and move on quickly. Since most gamers are young, their fear of a new challenege is huge which stops them from giving up gaming that they have lost passion for. However, because we are young, we still have plenty of opportunities. I hope those progamers decide to walk down a path other than gaming. If you feel like gaming might not be for you, you should try something new. I give this advice because I saw many in Starcraft 1 who suffered even more later on because they weren’t able to give up gaming. I’ve been meaning to say this for a while now but only got to do it now.
On June 14 2012 21:29 HaXXspetten wrote: Inject nerfs? Hadn't thought about that one, wonder how that would affect the gameplay, seems pretty big imo.
It could help with the 3 hatch 12 min max style that is working right nowm but it wont affect the lategame gameplay i think. infestor/brood will still give toss issues.
On June 14 2012 21:29 HaXXspetten wrote: Inject nerfs? Hadn't thought about that one, wonder how that would affect the gameplay, seems pretty big imo.
It could help with the 3 hatch 12 min max style that is working right nowm but it wont affect the lategame gameplay i think. infestor/brood will still give toss issues.
i dont see it going through
Seeing the variety of all-ins designed to counter the 12min roaches are in place, reducing the amount of larva would cripple the zerg to a point of no return.
On June 14 2012 22:20 Darksoldierr wrote: Maybe a Lair/Hatch upgrade to change larva inject from 3 back to 5, but as many of you said, doubt anything will change before HotS
all ins would simply destroy zerg, they simply will never get a descent size army in time to stop it.
On June 14 2012 21:56 Micket wrote: Inject nerf will be a MASSIVE nerf to zerg lol. You can't produce drones as quickly, its basically playing with a 20% economic handicap.
right . tell that to 80 drones at 8 minute mark 20% handicap
On June 14 2012 21:22 storywriter wrote: I was eliminated by Naniwa last season so I want to avoid him.
Wow, this is surprising. I think this is the first time that a player has said they want to avoid the person who knocked them out last time. Usually they want revenge.
I felt that there weren’t any Terrans in my group that could give me any trouble.
LOL. Mvp? No problem. ...and indeed it was no problem for him. I was a little surprised.
I want to thank FXOasd, NSHSSculp and LiquidTaeja for practising with me and I hope that San works hard and gets into Code S. He’s certainly skilled enough to be in Code S.
Practicing with Taeja? interesting. As much as I would like to see Liquid`Genius, I think Liquid`SuperNoVa is more likely. And EvilGenius sounds quite awesome. Except you don't win anything as long as you're on EG.
Zerg is so good right now. I’ve been telling David Kim for a long time to reduce the observer build time and cost as well as nerf larva inject to three larvae per inject and finally, the observer has been patched. The inject nerf should be coming along.
ROFL Genius. It's actually a good idea if they buffed combat units a tiny bit, so that they are less about drone, drone, drone, and more aligned with BW . I have a feeling, that's not what Genius had on his mind though.
On June 14 2012 23:27 opterown wrote: Also, I think MVP means he won the first Code S proper (the three before were just open seasons)
Yeah, the GSL wasn't a proper seasonal league before that. I'm pretty sure GOM general count the open seasons as their own tournaments and not part of the GSL proper.
===
Some strong words on various subjects from the King. Really nice interview :O
On June 14 2012 23:33 Poisonblack wrote: the king of terran is also the king of whining.. unsurprisingly
mvp very rarely whines, doesn't he?
He used to not whine so much, but I think after he got his wrist problems since August he has started to whine more and more in interviews. At least that's my opinion.
On June 14 2012 23:33 Poisonblack wrote: the king of terran is also the king of whining.. unsurprisingly
mvp very rarely whines, doesn't he?
not that rarely actually, he has always said that he thought terran was the weakest race. This time though he fully lashed out on both zerg and toss simultaneously!
Well Mvp said Terran was the weakest race in GomTvT period about a year ago. So you really shouldn't take everything he says for face value. But TvZ is pretty hard for Terran at the moment. I don't think anyone would disaggree with that.
What? That was a great response from MVP. Zerg IS strong at the moment. But note he did not ask for buffs to terrans or nerf to zerg or saying Queen buff was too strong. Instead, he thinks terrans need a revolutionist to come up with a good counter. That is pretty positive thinking.
As for his comment regarding retiring for BW pro. He is not telling them to retire because he feels they can't compete in SC2. But that he feels a lot of them are gaming because they are afraid of change. They aren't enjoying themselves. We have to remember that a lot of progamers have been playing 8-10 hours a day since they were 14-15. It must be pretty freighting for them to change and move on with something else.
Also, since MVP will get first pick in Ro16, he basically said he will pick a terran.
Lately, Zerg is doing really well compared to other races, how do you feel about that?
Zerg is so good right now. I’ve been telling David Kim for a long time to reduce the observer build time and cost as well as nerf larva inject to three larvae per inject and finally, the observer has been patched. The inject nerf should be coming along.
I really like MVP's comments. He kinda whines but doesn't ask for buffs/nerfs and says terrans need a new approach to the game which is so good to hear.
On June 14 2012 22:02 winthrop wrote: dont join liquid. join evil genius.
Genius and IdrA CJ Entus connection... Just saying.
Also where is everyone getting this Zerg doing exceptionally well lately thing from? DRG won MLG but the last GSL were no zergs in the top 8. Symbol gets knocked out of MLG early and again only 1 zerg in the top 8. Where's this coming from? Not saying they arent doing well but I don't think its head over heels better than the other two races.
On June 14 2012 22:02 winthrop wrote: dont join liquid. join evil genius.
Genius and IdrA CJ Entus connection... Just saying.
Also where is everyone getting this Zerg doing exceptionally well lately thing from? DRG won MLG but the last GSL were no zergs in the top 8. Symbol gets knocked out of MLG early and again only 1 zerg in the top 8. Where's this coming from? Not saying they arent doing well but I don't think its head over heels better than the other two races.
On June 14 2012 22:02 winthrop wrote: dont join liquid. join evil genius.
Genius and IdrA CJ Entus connection... Just saying.
Also where is everyone getting this Zerg doing exceptionally well lately thing from? DRG won MLG but the last GSL were no zergs in the top 8. Symbol gets knocked out of MLG early and again only 1 zerg in the top 8. Where's this coming from? Not saying they arent doing well but I don't think its head over heels better than the other two races.
GSTL too
Oh, team league where zenexline looks like a beast...
On June 14 2012 22:02 winthrop wrote: dont join liquid. join evil genius.
Genius and IdrA CJ Entus connection... Just saying.
Also where is everyone getting this Zerg doing exceptionally well lately thing from? DRG won MLG but the last GSL were no zergs in the top 8. Symbol gets knocked out of MLG early and again only 1 zerg in the top 8. Where's this coming from? Not saying they arent doing well but I don't think its head over heels better than the other two races.
GSTL too
Oh, team league where zenexline looks like a beast...
If you can't grasp the difference between Zenex Line and Zenex Life you probably shouldn't be commenting.
On June 14 2012 23:38 dragoonier wrote: Well Mvp said Terran was the weakest race in GomTvT period about a year ago. So you really shouldn't take everything he says for face value. But TvZ is pretty hard for Terran at the moment. I don't think anyone would disaggree with that.
Considering he is the most successful player of all time maybe you SHOULD listen to him.
On June 14 2012 22:02 winthrop wrote: dont join liquid. join evil genius.
Genius and IdrA CJ Entus connection... Just saying.
Also where is everyone getting this Zerg doing exceptionally well lately thing from? DRG won MLG but the last GSL were no zergs in the top 8. Symbol gets knocked out of MLG early and again only 1 zerg in the top 8. Where's this coming from? Not saying they arent doing well but I don't think its head over heels better than the other two races.
GSTL too
Oh, team league where zenexline looks like a beast...
If you can't grasp the difference between Zenex Line and Zenex Life you probably shouldn't be commenting.
Haha ok, why are you so mad man. I wasnt attacking anyone calm down.
On June 15 2012 00:12 ETisME wrote: nerf inject?! I certainly hope not all pros give such a ground breaking suggestions to balance lol
Would you rather he said "I think roaches should do 1 less damage"? The fact Genius even gave a suggestion is more than most pros just going "oh man nerf xyz" hehe.
Also: MVP zerg race change incoming. I'd love to see him enter OSL as a zerg, and win GSL with terran. Haha what a pipe dream, it's too legendary to think about.
Great interview from Mvp, I hope the Koreans pros do take his advice. If you lost passion in gaming, it is really hard to be on top of those who still have a passion. The longer the situation drag on, the more opportunities are lost.
All the more bewildering that Line (a.k.a. SuhoRoachBaneLingShin) decides to play in a one-dimensional gimmicky style! Fortunately for the terrans anyways
Line essentially received a free pass into Code A ro32 last season (Boxer forfeited), got 0-2ed by MMA and roach/bane/ling allined his way in the U&Ds to Code S. So happy so see his play punished straight into Code A ro48 - hoping to see him pummeled out of the GSL!
On June 15 2012 00:29 Bagration wrote: It's definitely an indicator that something may be off when the world's best player is complaining about balance... :|
Congrats MVP and Genius
April 2011 before blue flamme, ghost, thor nerfs,etc Terran is the weakest race...
On June 15 2012 00:29 Logros wrote: Funny how MVP keeps winning tournaments at times when Terran is sooo underpowered according to him :D.
He's just way more experienced than just about anyone else by now. If both players with the same amount of mistakes Terran will probably lose but by now MVP just doesn't make many mistakes if any and def. no major mistakes..
On June 15 2012 00:29 Logros wrote: Funny how MVP keeps winning tournaments at times when Terran is sooo underpowered according to him :D.
He's just way more experienced than just about anyone else by now. If both players with the same amount of mistakes Terran will probably lose but by now MVP just doesn't make many mistakes if any and def. no major mistakes..
I btw dig Genius idea of changing Larva Inject
I think Genius's suggestion is too much, but Larva Inject is obviously the most broken macro mechanic right now and could do with some sort of adjustment.
I'd love to see browder read these interviews and then test buffing seige tanks back to original strength on a really open map like taldarim altar. That's how the game should be balanced, not on statistics and claustrophobic maps.
On June 15 2012 00:29 Bagration wrote: It's definitely an indicator that something may be off when the world's best player is complaining about balance... :|
On June 15 2012 00:55 Tachion wrote: Does anyone know of a game where a korean pro has used this 6 queen build? Nestea's ro32 games perhaps?
Watch MKP vs Yugioh Code A Game 2.
Yugioh is the first one to popularized the 6 queen build in a televised match not Nestea. Nestea though uses the 6 queen build twice against TheStC.
Basically, you do the 4 queen build and instead delay your gas to 50 foodish for the additional 2 queens(hence 6 queen). After that, plant quadruple gases and take a third or macro hatch and transition.
Its a solid build around since 4 queen spreading creep and push back hellions back much easier and also defend banshee harass much easier.
Though i feel kinda bad for terran though since i literally can drone up as much as i want with 4 queens as my defense and 2 for injecting hatches.Doesn't matter whether they go triple CC when i can drone as much as i want for 3 bases so easily. XD
The one thing that the pros see that we don't are the specific practice matches against each other in the teamhouse... if balance is OK on ladder but MVP is getting smashed in TvZ and TvP back home, the latter could potentially be a better indicator of what top-level, prepared play is like. I dunno.
Also, MVP is hella smart. I have to wonder how many of his interview answers are calculated to screw with his potential opponents...
On June 14 2012 23:33 Poisonblack wrote: the king of terran is also the king of whining.. unsurprisingly
Your kidding. He has the balls to say the truth and how insane hard terran has it to win vs zerg (or protoss). Its just crazy what terran is forced to do and micro flawlessly or they just crumble.
On June 14 2012 23:33 Poisonblack wrote: the king of terran is also the king of whining.. unsurprisingly
Your kidding. He has the balls to say the truth and how insane hard terran has it to win vs zerg (or protoss). Its just crazy what terran is forced to do and micro flawlessly or they just crumble.
Nah i think MVP(king of mindgame) is playing mindgames with his upcoming opponent. The moment he said he was aiming third place in the round of 32 in CodeS. I knew he was up to something,i mean who the heck would want to aim for third place and not want to win?
Though i agreed zerg is strong but MVP is making out like it seems he had no chance against zerg. Not practicing TvZ since the finals and beating Line quite convincely.=| Pretty sure he mind gaming his future opponent Z or P.
and for all the naysayers, MVP was also top of Korean Gmasters with random on top of all his championships.. I think he has enough knowledge, success, and experience to make the claims he does.
He also doesn't say T has no chance..he said if two players are equal in skill and they don't choke on stage the P or Z will win...thats an important distinction. Its why he was able to win pretty much all his matches/the championship last season..
On June 15 2012 01:16 torm3ntin wrote: Wow. So mvp is not Playing tvz, neither tvp. Wha the hell he is doing then?
What he said is that he picked a Zerg player not being aware of how well the Zerg race was doing recently because he had not played a game against Zerg between the previous GSL season and when he picked Line.
Since then he has been practicing against Zerg a lot (and losing a lot apparently). He didn't focus on TvP because he was backing on Happy to take out Genius.
"The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg."
On June 15 2012 00:29 Bagration wrote: It's definitely an indicator that something may be off when the world's best player is complaining about balance... :|
Genius is onto something here, maybe they should extend the inject time with like 5 seconds so it only affect the pros that don't miss injects or rarely miss em.
On June 15 2012 01:32 fanvadmeck wrote: Genius is onto something here, maybe they should extend the inject time with like 5 seconds so it only affect the pros that don't miss injects or rarely miss em.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
Oh boy - If this is actually Mvps thoughts i have found my new Quote to play by ;D
Zerg seems strong now but if the reasoning has to do with their ability to hold all ins easily now... doesnt that mean terrans are just all in'ing too much when they shouldnt be?
On June 15 2012 00:55 Tachion wrote: Does anyone know of a game where a korean pro has used this 6 queen build? Nestea's ro32 games perhaps?
Watch MKP vs Yugioh Code A Game 2.
Yugioh is the first one to popularized the 6 queen build in a televised match not Nestea. Nestea though uses the 6 queen build twice against TheStC.
Basically, you do the 4 queen build and instead delay your gas to 50 foodish for the additional 2 queens(hence 6 queen). After that, plant quadruple gases and take a third or macro hatch and transition.
Its a solid build around since 4 queen spreading creep and push back hellions back much easier and also defend banshee harass much easier.
Though i feel kinda bad for terran though since i literally can drone up as much as i want with 4 queens as my defense and 2 for injecting hatches.Doesn't matter whether they go triple CC when i can drone as much as i want for 3 bases so easily. XD
That seems really reminiscent of Spanishiwa's Ice Fisher from a year ago. Damn, seems like the guy was months ahead of the metagame then :p
Genius totally dodged that question "WHY" he wants to leave the team. all he said was he thought about leaving for a long time... gah, bad interviewer!
On June 15 2012 00:29 Bagration wrote: It's definitely an indicator that something may be off when the world's best player is complaining about balance... :|
April 2011 before blue flamme, ghost, thor nerfs,etc Terran is the weakest race...
Haha, i remember that one...Lets be serious here people, nestea will probably say that zerg is the weakest race too. It's in those korean progamers nature to feel like they are doing badly and something is holding them back, its what makes them strive to do better.
On June 15 2012 01:54 Makura wrote: Zerg seems strong now but if the reasoning has to do with their ability to hold all ins easily now... doesnt that mean terrans are just all in'ing too much when they shouldnt be?
What do you mean, "when they shouldn't be"? We see all the time Zergs just building 6 queens and a macro hatch then making nothing but drones for however long they feel like. All ining should be a reasonable punish against this sort of greed. As it stands Zerg all ins are genuinely more reliable than Terran's in TvZ, purely because of queens (spinecrawlers to an extent, also).
nestea said in his interview:"When IM team members practice against each other, the Terrans win most of the time.". MVP:"I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately.". haha. and very cool motivational last answer from mvp.
On June 15 2012 01:54 Makura wrote: Zerg seems strong now but if the reasoning has to do with their ability to hold all ins easily now... doesnt that mean terrans are just all in'ing too much when they shouldnt be?
No, it means that if zerg can hold all-ins, zerg can hold any sort of aggression at any point in time with the new queen buff.
TvZ has always been about being aggressive and forcing the zerg to react and build lings/roaches instead of drones and having to delay their third. It has always been the case in TvZ that, if the terran's aggression is not successful, then they lose. This is like the TvP situation, except that in TvZ, it used to be possible to pressure the zerg. Terran is just kind of fucked for now.
Mvp says we need a revolutionary, but I don't think it's possible anymore. Terran has had like 2 buffs total (BC speed and some other thing that's probably insignificant also), and has been nerfed almost every patch. Terran has been successful only because terran players have had to innovate. The other races just kind of rode the bitch-wagon and got buffs until they are where they are now.
On June 15 2012 01:54 Makura wrote: Zerg seems strong now but if the reasoning has to do with their ability to hold all ins easily now... doesnt that mean terrans are just all in'ing too much when they shouldnt be?
lol? lategame is even worse. guess why terrans are all inning? pff...
I have been saying that lowering the max number of larvae sustained by a hatchery is the way to go. Lowering it from 19 to something like 14/15 should be a good start. Nerfing queen inject might be too much. Most of the T/P trouble against Z is late game anyway.
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Am I the only one that wants pros to finally stop balance-whining in every interview? It's getting on my nerves, and honestly, if it was as bad as they pretend it is, they wouldn't have won in the first place.
MVP says he can't beat Zerg at all, and in the same interview says the plan was for him and Happy to meet in the winner's match. I conclude that he's lying somewhere, and since he beat Zerg today, i know which part is not true.
Genius almost (not quite, but close) worse with his supercool Larva ideas.
I know most people don't have a problem with that, else Idra wouldn't have a billion fans, but this shit is why I read very few interviews anymore.
On June 15 2012 02:13 usethis2 wrote: I have been saying that lowering the max number of larvae sustained by a hatchery is the way to go. Lowering it from 19 to something like 14/15 should be a good start. Nerfing queen inject might be too much. Most of the T/P trouble against Z is late game anyway.
Broodlord/Ultra whatever tech T/P is struggling against is really cheap on larva. aka you get a lot of supply per larva
Come on mods. I know the MVP and Genius both balanced complaint, but can we keep the thread from becoming full of Terran whiners please? We dont need the fanbases of these players making balance complaints now.
What MVP said isn't even that unknown. MVP said if his opponents play perfectly, they win. Thats true for most people. He never said terran couldn't win if played perfectly. If your playing an opponent, and you dont make a mistake, you should expect to win. Now how hard each race is is a different matter, and he didn't talk about it (i know there will be 'BUT TERRAN IS SO HARD' from at least a few people). He made the perfect balance complaint that isn't fully a balance complaint all at one.
DRG's quote about Zerg being OP was much stronger. MVP chose his words more carefully. i agree with what other people are saying, MVP is king of Interviews because i think he MindGames ALL OF US with them.
On June 15 2012 02:19 Dandel Ion wrote: Am I the only one that wants pros to finally stop balance-whining in every interview? It's getting on my nerves, and honestly, if it was as bad as they pretend it is, they wouldn't have won in the first place.
MVP says he can't beat Zerg at all, and in the same interview says the plan was for him and Happy to meet in the winner's match. I conclude that he's lying somewhere, and since he beat Zerg today, i know which part is not true.
Genius almost (not quite, but close) worse with his supercool Larva ideas.
I know most people don't have a problem with that, else Idra wouldn't have a billion fans, but this shit is why I read very few interviews anymore.
And that's what grinds my gears.
He was specifically asked about Zerg , is he supposed to lie ? And he supposedly means better Zerg players than Line because lets be honest Zerg can't be made strong enough to make Line favored over MVP.
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Not 100% true, he did have a small duel of words with MC on twitter some months back, to which NesTea also participated. And DRG said something along the lines of if Toss does perfect FFs he can't lose, (was referring to the immortal push or some GW pushes heavy on sentries), and he said he struggled a lot at that time.
If I remember correctly that was also the GSL where NesTea and DRG meet in the RO16 and where the only 2 zergs left alive in the tournament, after some nice back and forth games NesTea kind of passed the mantle of best zerg in the world to DRG when he lost to him in that group.
So you're kind of wrong about DRG, if he senses something wrong about balance he will come forward and speak his mind, and he kind of did so recently saying that Terrans now have no chance after the queen buff.
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
I'm stealing this quote for DRG's fanclub!
edit: lol I take that back, he did QQ about forcefields to MC :D
On June 15 2012 00:55 Tachion wrote: Does anyone know of a game where a korean pro has used this 6 queen build? Nestea's ro32 games perhaps?
Watch MKP vs Yugioh Code A Game 2.
Yugioh is the first one to popularized the 6 queen build in a televised match not Nestea. Nestea though uses the 6 queen build twice against TheStC.
Basically, you do the 4 queen build and instead delay your gas to 50 foodish for the additional 2 queens(hence 6 queen). After that, plant quadruple gases and take a third or macro hatch and transition.
Its a solid build around since 4 queen spreading creep and push back hellions back much easier and also defend banshee harass much easier.
Though i feel kinda bad for terran though since i literally can drone up as much as i want with 4 queens as my defense and 2 for injecting hatches.Doesn't matter whether they go triple CC when i can drone as much as i want for 3 bases so easily. XD
That seems really reminiscent of Spanishiwa's Ice Fisher from a year ago. Damn, seems like the guy was months ahead of the metagame then :p
Yes it is similar to Spanishiwa Ice Fisher which faded out of the meta game after time. Though i wouldn't called it the ice fisher build since the builds varied quite a bit.
Now its back but more refined with better timings and better with the new queen buff.
On June 15 2012 02:19 Dandel Ion wrote: Am I the only one that wants pros to finally stop balance-whining in every interview? It's getting on my nerves, and honestly, if it was as bad as they pretend it is, they wouldn't have won in the first place.
MVP says he can't beat Zerg at all, and in the same interview says the plan was for him and Happy to meet in the winner's match. I conclude that he's lying somewhere, and since he beat Zerg today, i know which part is not true.
Genius almost (not quite, but close) worse with his supercool Larva ideas.
I know most people don't have a problem with that, else Idra wouldn't have a billion fans, but this shit is why I read very few interviews anymore.
And that's what grinds my gears.
I agree with you mostly. And I think its mostly the interviewers fault imo. They keep asking balance related questions. I'm fine with one or two.
But what the fuck happened to asking detailed questions. 'in set 2, you were in behind after his roach rush, what was going through your mind, how did you pull it back and win'. Break the game down, get into the winners head. Id much rather those questions and questions about 'outside the game' like their hobbies (best soccer player in house type of questions), etc.
I want to know whats in their mind. Not their perceived balance. Do that on SoTG or something
When the second best TvZer says terran needs a revolutionist to come along, there's a problem. He can't solve the problem, he's relying on someone else, who will probably never show up. The best TvZer, MMA, has not shown many games against zerg at the moment so we don't know what his TvZ is like. One odd thing about his one game against Zerg since the patch is that he went mech.... the best bio-centric TvZer with all his crazy multitasking opted for a 1a mech army. What does that tell you?
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Not 100% true, he did have a small duel of words with MC on twitter some months back, to which NesTea also participated. And DRG said something along the lines of if Toss does perfect FFs he can't lose, (was referring to the immortal push or some GW pushes heavy on sentries), and he said he struggled a lot at that time.
If I remember correctly that was also the GSL where NesTea and DRG meet in the RO16 and where the only 2 zergs left alive in the tournament, after some nice back and forth games NesTea kind of passed the mantle of best zerg in the world to DRG when he lost to him in that group.
So you're kind of wrong about DRG, if he senses something wrong about balance he will come forward and speak his mind, and he kind of did so recently saying that Terrans now have no chance after the queen buff.
Those friendly banters are hardly comparable to whiny interviews to public in daylight.
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Not 100% true, he did have a small duel of words with MC on twitter some months back, to which NesTea also participated. And DRG said something along the lines of if Toss does perfect FFs he can't lose, (was referring to the immortal push or some GW pushes heavy on sentries), and he said he struggled a lot at that time.
If I remember correctly that was also the GSL where NesTea and DRG meet in the RO16 and where the only 2 zergs left alive in the tournament, after some nice back and forth games NesTea kind of passed the mantle of best zerg in the world to DRG when he lost to him in that group.
So you're kind of wrong about DRG, if he senses something wrong about balance he will come forward and speak his mind, and he kind of did so recently saying that Terrans now have no chance after the queen buff.
Though the immortal sentries push if done right with perfect FF is nearly impossible to stop unless you have an overwhelming army advantage.
DRG was probably complaining out of frustration after losing to it a couple of times but now he straight up destroy those immortal/sentries pushes easily if you watched his recent games at MLG.
People will whine out of frustration and it is understandable. Example,Ret loses to Squirtle or Parting in redbull lans to immortal/sentries and push and he claim that there was nothing he could do to stop it.
I don't think they are whiny in interviews either, they are expressing their opinion on the current situation, and given the fact that these players are way, way more skilled then the majority of players out there, I believe their opinions need to be respected and considered, taken with a grain of salt of course, but still considered.
And also, a lot of times these players say something along the lines of "if the player controls/plays perfectly" they do try to take the human factor into account, MVP didn't consider himself a favorite but, he just outplayed Suhosin on too many fronts for the zerg buff to matter.
Immvp is so whiny. The nerves he has for balance whining at the peak of terran dominance in that artosis interview leaves him with little credibility now.
On June 15 2012 01:54 Makura wrote: Zerg seems strong now but if the reasoning has to do with their ability to hold all ins easily now... doesnt that mean terrans are just all in'ing too much when they shouldnt be?
They have to try to punish [not necessarily ending the game] the zerg for being greedy and droning because they'll be at a disadvantage going into the late game, economy wise and army composition wise. If harass and late game doesn't work, why shouldn't they resort to more all ins? Why play harder and longer just to lose?
On June 14 2012 21:29 HaXXspetten wrote: Inject nerfs? Hadn't thought about that one, wonder how that would affect the gameplay, seems pretty big imo.
It could help with the 3 hatch 12 min max style that is working right nowm but it wont affect the lategame gameplay i think. infestor/brood will still give toss issues.
i dont see it going through
At high level play protosses have gotten very good at defending vs it. It used to work alot (like every new build that is good) but doesn't anymore. No point in nerfing something that has been figured out.
If zerg got an inject nerf omg lol that would be terrible >>.
Also very surprised at genius saying zerg op when zvp has been favoring protoss the last 3 months and still is. I can understand mvp complaining (although I don't think it's as bad as he thinks but I do agree that zvt is zerg favored for the moment).
There is a problem if even MVP thinks Zerg is, in his opinion, kind of overpowered. I never understood why Blizzard went from 3 to 5 range queens instead of just 4 to see how it is like, then adjust if needed.
I don't understand why people are complaining about them being "whiny". Sure, they have their opinions on balance. There's not going to say "the game is always completely balanced". And they don't bring those up themselves. The interviewer asked specifically about the zerg buff to each of them. They'll just look dumb saying that the buff did nothing because it did do a lot. They are the top players of the world for sure, and they play a heck more than most of us do against opponents of the same caliber. I honestly think that the professionals' inputs are what's going to make the game better, so I'd rather have them discuss it publicly (although I do agree that it should be done somewhere other than a post-game interview -.-)
Interesting ideas presented by both of them, although the zerg larvae nerf sounds a little too absurd, although it won't be too hard to get around it by creating more macro hatches (I think Genius wanted to point out how zerg doesn't really need too many production buildings). It was done in broodwar, so it's not impossible at all, but it might be interesting to see how it'll affect the game.
On June 15 2012 02:19 Dandel Ion wrote: Am I the only one that wants pros to finally stop balance-whining in every interview? It's getting on my nerves, and honestly, if it was as bad as they pretend it is, they wouldn't have won in the first place.
MVP says he can't beat Zerg at all, and in the same interview says the plan was for him and Happy to meet in the winner's match. I conclude that he's lying somewhere, and since he beat Zerg today, i know which part is not true.
Genius almost (not quite, but close) worse with his supercool Larva ideas.
I know most people don't have a problem with that, else Idra wouldn't have a billion fans, but this shit is why I read very few interviews anymore.
And that's what grinds my gears.
Do you even know why he picked Line???? Line is a weak zerg who is overly aggressive and doesn't use his race to his advantage. MVP knew he had a good chance of beating Line but that doesn't mean he didn't have problems against a more competent zerg during practice.
On June 15 2012 02:44 glzElectromaster wrote: I don't understand why people are complaining about them being "whiny". Sure, they have their opinions on balance. There's not going to say "the game is always completely balanced". And they don't bring those up themselves. The interviewer asked specifically about the zerg buff to each of them. They'll just look dumb saying that the buff did nothing because it did do a lot. They are the top players of the world for sure, and they play a heck more than most of us do against opponents of the same caliber. I honestly think that the professionals' inputs are what's going to make the game better, so I'd rather have them discuss it publicly (although I do agree that it should be done somewhere other than a post-game interview -.-)
Interesting ideas presented by both of them, although the zerg larvae nerf sounds a little too absurd, although it won't be too hard to get around it by creating more macro hatches (I think Genius wanted to point out how zerg doesn't really need too many production buildings). It was done in broodwar, so it's not impossible at all, but it might be interesting to see how it'll affect the game.
Won't be too hard???LOL
Nerfing the larvae inject is literally nerfing the macro mechanics and the production of zerg. Larva is the basis of the zerg economy and army.
On June 15 2012 02:43 darkness wrote: There is a problem if even MVP thinks Zerg is, in his opinion, kind of overpowered. I never understood why Blizzard went from 3 to 5 range queens instead of just 4 to see how it is like, then adjust if needed.
Tbh do you remember back when taldarim was first announced and MVP said terran was the weakest race? That was when gsl was still mostly korean terrans and won most championships in major tournaments like every single major tournament a terran won except like a couple every once in awhile lol.
Considering both mvp/nestea both complain about balance a lot even when it's favoring their race it's hard to take either of them to seriously sometimes when it comes to balance.
I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
On June 15 2012 01:54 Makura wrote: Zerg seems strong now but if the reasoning has to do with their ability to hold all ins easily now... doesnt that mean terrans are just all in'ing too much when they shouldnt be?
They have to try to punish [not necessarily ending the game] the zerg for being greedy and droning because they'll be at a disadvantage going into the late game, economy wise and army composition wise. If harass and late game doesn't work, why shouldn't they resort to more all ins? Why play harder and longer just to lose?
Exactly right. But you will never get an honest answer to your question, because Zerg is happy the way it is. Terran early game has been nerfed into the ground, late game has always sucked but ghost nerf made it even worse. Now with queen buff and easier scouting they can feel free to drone to 80 almost every single game without any worry of pressure.
On June 15 2012 02:44 glzElectromaster wrote: I don't understand why people are complaining about them being "whiny". Sure, they have their opinions on balance. There's not going to say "the game is always completely balanced". And they don't bring those up themselves. The interviewer asked specifically about the zerg buff to each of them. They'll just look dumb saying that the buff did nothing because it did do a lot. They are the top players of the world for sure, and they play a heck more than most of us do against opponents of the same caliber. I honestly think that the professionals' inputs are what's going to make the game better, so I'd rather have them discuss it publicly (although I do agree that it should be done somewhere other than a post-game interview -.-)
Interesting ideas presented by both of them, although the zerg larvae nerf sounds a little too absurd, although it won't be too hard to get around it by creating more macro hatches (I think Genius wanted to point out how zerg doesn't really need too many production buildings). It was done in broodwar, so it's not impossible at all, but it might be interesting to see how it'll affect the game.
Won't be too hard???LOL
Nerfing the larvae inject is literally nerfing the macro mechanics and the production of zerg. Larva is the basis of the zerg economy and army.
Kinda sounds like when they nerfed barracks build time to deal with ONE OPENER, thus setting back the entire Terran tech tree... but don't worry, Blizzard is not going to nerf Zerg at all just before the Zerg expansion comes out, you will be safe for a while at least.
On June 15 2012 00:29 Bagration wrote: It's definitely an indicator that something may be off when the world's best player is complaining about balance... :|
April 2011 before blue flamme, ghost, thor nerfs,etc Terran is the weakest race...
And if you actually bothered to watch the video, he says it's due to maps, not some kind of inherent weakness of Terran. April was around when GSL finally dropped some maps like Steppes, Jungle Basin, etc. in favor of bigger maps like Terminus, Crevasse, and Tal'Darim. It allowed Zerg in particular to more easily defend a lot of Terran aggression that there was a massive amount of complaining about (some of it legitimate, the early maps were terrible) at the time.
What we're dealing with now is a series of consistent buffs to the other races and nerfs to Terran that some of us believe may have reached a tipping point. It's not guaranteed by any means that the game is actually imbalanced against Terran since we still need some time to tell, but right now a lot of us feel that we have to play significantly better than our opponents of the other races to win. Mvp is saying that in TvZ, if the players have the same skill and the Zerg doesn't fuck up, Zerg wins because Terran has been nerfed too much and Zerg has been buffed too much. Maybe there's a revolutionist out there that will help us out by coming up with some great new builds, but maybe there isn't. Right now though, Terrans are frustrated across the board.
On June 15 2012 02:54 namste wrote: I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
What interview did you read?
Why were you going for third place?
I picked a Zerg but since the finals, I hadn't played a single TvZ. So I had no idea how strong Zerg was in the current metagame. I did really badly against Zerg in practice so I couldn’t be certain about winning. I came to the studio thinking that I should avoid straight losses at least.
Lately, there is talk of Zerg being OP.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
How do you think it will be for you to take on a top level Zerg?
I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately. Unless I come up with a new strategy or build, it’ll stay like that. The Terran race needs a revolutionist.
Before the match, you said that the six queen build is very strong
I tried playing Zerg on the ladder and met a lot of barcode Terrans. All those Terrans opted for an all-in build. I defended all of those all-ins with the six queen build. Unless, it’s a super early marine/scv cheese rush, six queens can hold anything.
On June 15 2012 02:54 namste wrote: I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
I picked a Zerg but since the finals, I hadn't played a single TvZ. So I had no idea how strong Zerg was in the current metagame. I did really badly against Zerg in practice so I couldn’t be certain about winning. I came to the studio thinking that I should avoid straight losses at least.
Lately, there is talk of Zerg being OP.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
How do you think it will be for you to take on a top level Zerg?
I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately. Unless I come up with a new strategy or build, it’ll stay like that. The Terran race needs a revolutionist.
Before the match, you said that the six queen build is very strong
I tried playing Zerg on the ladder and met a lot of barcode Terrans. All those Terrans opted for an all-in build. I defended all of those all-ins with the six queen build. Unless, it’s a super early marine/scv cheese rush, six queens can hold anything.
How is that whine? He's just stating facts for the most part (him not doing well vs zerg etc). If there's anyone who has an idea what hes talking about its MVP. Can you disprove his points?
On June 15 2012 02:44 glzElectromaster wrote: I don't understand why people are complaining about them being "whiny". Sure, they have their opinions on balance. There's not going to say "the game is always completely balanced". And they don't bring those up themselves. The interviewer asked specifically about the zerg buff to each of them. They'll just look dumb saying that the buff did nothing because it did do a lot. They are the top players of the world for sure, and they play a heck more than most of us do against opponents of the same caliber. I honestly think that the professionals' inputs are what's going to make the game better, so I'd rather have them discuss it publicly (although I do agree that it should be done somewhere other than a post-game interview -.-)
Interesting ideas presented by both of them, although the zerg larvae nerf sounds a little too absurd, although it won't be too hard to get around it by creating more macro hatches (I think Genius wanted to point out how zerg doesn't really need too many production buildings). It was done in broodwar, so it's not impossible at all, but it might be interesting to see how it'll affect the game.
Won't be too hard???LOL
Nerfing the larvae inject is literally nerfing the macro mechanics and the production of zerg. Larva is the basis of the zerg economy and army.
Kinda sounds like when they nerfed barracks build time to deal with ONE OPENER, thus setting back the entire Terran tech tree... but don't worry, Blizzard is not going to nerf Zerg at all just before the Zerg expansion comes out, you will be safe for a while at least.
Which opener are you talking about?
Even when the barrack time was nerfed, it was Gom TvT and the era where terran were owning zergs and toss left and right.
On June 15 2012 02:44 glzElectromaster wrote: I don't understand why people are complaining about them being "whiny". Sure, they have their opinions on balance. There's not going to say "the game is always completely balanced". And they don't bring those up themselves. The interviewer asked specifically about the zerg buff to each of them. They'll just look dumb saying that the buff did nothing because it did do a lot. They are the top players of the world for sure, and they play a heck more than most of us do against opponents of the same caliber. I honestly think that the professionals' inputs are what's going to make the game better, so I'd rather have them discuss it publicly (although I do agree that it should be done somewhere other than a post-game interview -.-)
Interesting ideas presented by both of them, although the zerg larvae nerf sounds a little too absurd, although it won't be too hard to get around it by creating more macro hatches (I think Genius wanted to point out how zerg doesn't really need too many production buildings). It was done in broodwar, so it's not impossible at all, but it might be interesting to see how it'll affect the game.
Won't be too hard???LOL
Nerfing the larvae inject is literally nerfing the macro mechanics and the production of zerg. Larva is the basis of the zerg economy and army.
Kinda sounds like when they nerfed barracks build time to deal with ONE OPENER, thus setting back the entire Terran tech tree... but don't worry, Blizzard is not going to nerf Zerg at all just before the Zerg expansion comes out, you will be safe for a while at least.
It would have a way bigger impact then that. The barracks is 1 building, nerfing larva mechanic would change the whole way zergs need to play since the whole race is build around that mechanic.
On June 15 2012 02:54 namste wrote: I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
I picked a Zerg but since the finals, I hadn't played a single TvZ. So I had no idea how strong Zerg was in the current metagame. I did really badly against Zerg in practice so I couldn’t be certain about winning. I came to the studio thinking that I should avoid straight losses at least.
Lately, there is talk of Zerg being OP.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
How do you think it will be for you to take on a top level Zerg?
I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately. Unless I come up with a new strategy or build, it’ll stay like that. The Terran race needs a revolutionist.
Before the match, you said that the six queen build is very strong
I tried playing Zerg on the ladder and met a lot of barcode Terrans. All those Terrans opted for an all-in build. I defended all of those all-ins with the six queen build. Unless, it’s a super early marine/scv cheese rush, six queens can hold anything.
How is any of this whining ?. He just stated his personal experience .Which he was asked about...
On June 15 2012 02:54 namste wrote: I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
What interview did you read?
Why were you going for third place?
I picked a Zerg but since the finals, I hadn't played a single TvZ. So I had no idea how strong Zerg was in the current metagame. I did really badly against Zerg in practice so I couldn’t be certain about winning. I came to the studio thinking that I should avoid straight losses at least.
Lately, there is talk of Zerg being OP.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
How do you think it will be for you to take on a top level Zerg?
I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately. Unless I come up with a new strategy or build, it’ll stay like that. The Terran race needs a revolutionist.
Before the match, you said that the six queen build is very strong
I tried playing Zerg on the ladder and met a lot of barcode Terrans. All those Terrans opted for an all-in build. I defended all of those all-ins with the six queen build. Unless, it’s a super early marine/scv cheese rush, six queens can hold anything.
How is that whine? If there's anyone who has an idea what hes talking about its MVP. Can you disprove his points?
When he said we got nothing we can do against zerg, he was whining.
Also, six queen build can hold ANYTHING??? Wow i did not know that then why zergs are not going 6 queen build all the way????
Please eventhough its MVP you should know whether a player is whining or not.
On June 15 2012 02:44 glzElectromaster wrote: I don't understand why people are complaining about them being "whiny". Sure, they have their opinions on balance. There's not going to say "the game is always completely balanced". And they don't bring those up themselves. The interviewer asked specifically about the zerg buff to each of them. They'll just look dumb saying that the buff did nothing because it did do a lot. They are the top players of the world for sure, and they play a heck more than most of us do against opponents of the same caliber. I honestly think that the professionals' inputs are what's going to make the game better, so I'd rather have them discuss it publicly (although I do agree that it should be done somewhere other than a post-game interview -.-)
Interesting ideas presented by both of them, although the zerg larvae nerf sounds a little too absurd, although it won't be too hard to get around it by creating more macro hatches (I think Genius wanted to point out how zerg doesn't really need too many production buildings). It was done in broodwar, so it's not impossible at all, but it might be interesting to see how it'll affect the game.
Won't be too hard???LOL
Nerfing the larvae inject is literally nerfing the macro mechanics and the production of zerg. Larva is the basis of the zerg economy and army.
Kinda sounds like when they nerfed barracks build time to deal with ONE OPENER, thus setting back the entire Terran tech tree... but don't worry, Blizzard is not going to nerf Zerg at all just before the Zerg expansion comes out, you will be safe for a while at least.
It would have a way bigger impact then that. The barracks is 1 building, nerfing larva mechanic would change the whole way zergs need to play since the whole race is build around that mechanic.
It doesn't have to be a huge nerf 5 seconds longer before injects spawn larva or something would probably suffice. And this would not make any more difference than the rax buildtime . It probably would have the same impact slow the Zerg ( like it should ) a bit.
On June 14 2012 21:56 Micket wrote: Inject nerf will be a MASSIVE nerf to zerg lol. You can't produce drones as quickly, its basically playing with a 20% economic handicap.
if blizzard nerfs inject I'm gonna switch to protoss (btw thx genius I mean fuck you) I hope every other zerg does the same then
On June 15 2012 02:54 namste wrote: I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
What interview did you read?
Why were you going for third place?
I picked a Zerg but since the finals, I hadn't played a single TvZ. So I had no idea how strong Zerg was in the current metagame. I did really badly against Zerg in practice so I couldn’t be certain about winning. I came to the studio thinking that I should avoid straight losses at least.
Lately, there is talk of Zerg being OP.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
How do you think it will be for you to take on a top level Zerg?
I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately. Unless I come up with a new strategy or build, it’ll stay like that. The Terran race needs a revolutionist.
Before the match, you said that the six queen build is very strong
I tried playing Zerg on the ladder and met a lot of barcode Terrans. All those Terrans opted for an all-in build. I defended all of those all-ins with the six queen build. Unless, it’s a super early marine/scv cheese rush, six queens can hold anything.
How is that whine? If there's anyone who has an idea what hes talking about its MVP. Can you disprove his points?
When he said we got nothing we can do against zerg, he was whining.
Also, six queen build can hold ANYTHING??? Wow i did not know that then why zergs are not going 6 queen build all the way????
Please eventhough its MVP you should know whether a player is whining or not.
You have no idea what MVP has been trough, if he said he couldn't win any game vs Zerg and couldn't do anything, then you better believe he couldn't do anything.
And you know a lot of pro gamers off race form time to time to gain insight on the other race, and fish for ideas on how to counter a particular thing, if Mvp played Zerg and could defend any early aggression with a 6 queen build then that is pretty damning. If out of all the terrans that MVP meet on ladder if no one could find a pressure or all-in build to kill or challenge his 6 queen build, then it is quite worrisome.
On June 14 2012 23:33 Poisonblack wrote: the king of terran is also the king of whining.. unsurprisingly
Your kidding. He has the balls to say the truth and how insane hard terran has it to win vs zerg (or protoss). Its just crazy what terran is forced to do and micro flawlessly or they just crumble.
MVP interviews make me depressed. He's suppose to tell all the terrans that the race is fine and the zergs and protosses are just playing really well lately ):
On June 15 2012 00:29 Bagration wrote: It's definitely an indicator that something may be off when the world's best player is complaining about balance... :|
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Terrans and Tosses have inherited the Kong line whereas DRG has inherited the Dong line. Thou shall take complete responsibility for all your losses and wins.
On June 14 2012 23:33 Poisonblack wrote: the king of terran is also the king of whining.. unsurprisingly
Your kidding. He has the balls to say the truth and how insane hard terran has it to win vs zerg (or protoss). Its just crazy what terran is forced to do and micro flawlessly or they just crumble.
Yeah proxy raxing is sooo hard amirite?
It actually is hard, you have to micro precisely to not lose too many marines and SCVs and keep the bunker alive long enough to make it work, and if it fails you fall almost insurmountably behind. If you want to blame someone blame Squirtle for hardcore botching it by losing some key units and moving out when he didn't need to.
Not saying its not hard for the protoss, it probably is, but don't come in here and make it sound like the 2 rax is an auto-win.
On June 14 2012 22:02 winthrop wrote: dont join liquid. join evil genius.
Genius and IdrA CJ Entus connection... Just saying.
Also where is everyone getting this Zerg doing exceptionally well lately thing from? DRG won MLG but the last GSL were no zergs in the top 8. Symbol gets knocked out of MLG early and again only 1 zerg in the top 8. Where's this coming from? Not saying they arent doing well but I don't think its head over heels better than the other two races.
The Zergs fell out of GSL Season 2 before the patch. Some things that have happened since the patch:
GSTL Season 2 Round 1: Of the eight matches played, there were three in which Zerg won every game (ZeNEX vs. TL, TSL vs. Fnatic, and IM-SK vs. TSL), and another in which Zerg won 4 of 5 non-mirror matchups (Fnatic vs. IM-SK). In the second week/group, Zerg had a non-mirror record of 13-1. The ZvT winrate for the season is currently 100%.
MLG Spring Arena 2: Zerg sweept the top three.
GSL Season 3 Preliminaries: Of the 21 qualifiers for Code A, the race distribution was 7P/4T/10Z.
MLG Spring Championship: DRG won, Stephano took 5th/6th (so two in the top eight, not one), and there were three other Zergs in the top 12. (One of those was Symbol; perhaps his exit was earlier than expected given his recent form, but Ro12 in a 160-player tournament is hardly "early" in general.) There was only one Zerg who qualified for Pool Play from the Open Bracket (Golden), but six of the eight survivors of the Open Loser's Bracket were Zergs.
They've been doing well recently. I won't argue over whether or not it's an "exceptional" level, though.
Damn from IMMVP's comments at the end there it sounds like he might not have had passion for Starcraft anymore, I hope he's not suggesting that he doesn't have passion for SC2!
On June 15 2012 02:54 namste wrote: I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
What interview did you read?
Why were you going for third place?
I picked a Zerg but since the finals, I hadn't played a single TvZ. So I had no idea how strong Zerg was in the current metagame. I did really badly against Zerg in practice so I couldn’t be certain about winning. I came to the studio thinking that I should avoid straight losses at least.
Lately, there is talk of Zerg being OP.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
How do you think it will be for you to take on a top level Zerg?
I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately. Unless I come up with a new strategy or build, it’ll stay like that. The Terran race needs a revolutionist.
Before the match, you said that the six queen build is very strong
I tried playing Zerg on the ladder and met a lot of barcode Terrans. All those Terrans opted for an all-in build. I defended all of those all-ins with the six queen build. Unless, it’s a super early marine/scv cheese rush, six queens can hold anything.
How is that whine? If there's anyone who has an idea what hes talking about its MVP. Can you disprove his points?
When he said we got nothing we can do against zerg, he was whining.
Also, six queen build can hold ANYTHING??? Wow i did not know that then why zergs are not going 6 queen build all the way????
Please eventhough its MVP you should know whether a player is whining or not.
You have no idea what MVP has been trough, if he said he couldn't win any game vs Zerg and couldn't do anything, then you better believe he couldn't do anything.
And you know a lot of pro gamers off race form time to time to gain insight on the other race, and fish for ideas on how to counter a particular thing, if Mvp played Zerg and could defend any early aggression with a 6 queen build then that is pretty damning. If out of all the terrans that MVP meet on ladder if no one could find a pressure or all-in build to kill or challenge his 6 queen build, then it is quite worrisome.
I find this funny actually. MVP:Lately my TvZ are only at 30% or so and i haven't won a single game against Nestea recently Nestea:When IM team members practice against each other, the Terrans win most of the time.
Please MVP was whining when he said there is nothing terran can do against zerg.
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Terrans and Tosses have inherited the Kong line whereas DRG has inherited the Dong line. Thou shall take complete responsibility for all your losses and wins.
except DRG has said at least on two seperate accounts that Protoss was overpowered, and has made the biggest 'balance statement' of any pros saying that he can't lose if he plays well, even if his opponent plays perfectly.
mvp is saying the same thing, he just seems to think that way about tvp and tvz...But as i said ealier, i think his interviews are half-truths. He lies and mind-games the shit out of people. Thats why MVP is the king
edit: 1. He says he planned on being third, yet him and happy seemed to have planned the win's losses and that would have left MVP in first.
2. Says he never beats zerg. Nestea comes in and says he loses to IM terrans.
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Terrans and Tosses have inherited the Kong line whereas DRG has inherited the Dong line. Thou shall take complete responsibility for all your losses and wins.
except DRG has said at least on two seperate accounts that Protoss was overpowered, and has made the biggest 'balance statement' of any pros saying that he can't lose if he plays well, even if his opponent plays perfectly.
mvp is saying the same thing, he just seems to think that way about tvp and tvz...But as i said ealier, i think his interviews are half-truths. He lies and mind-games the shit out of people. Thats why MVP is the king
Exactly this. I said in my previous post he is the king of mindgames.
On June 15 2012 03:16 phiinix wrote: MVP interviews make me depressed. He's suppose to tell all the terrans that the race is fine and the zergs and protosses are just playing really well lately ):
Don't worry, Flash will definitely replace him soon. He is more imba. ^^
Do you seriously want to say that everything MVP is saying is just stupid whining? I mean you guys arent even playing close to his level and if he says its damn hard with the current terran builds to play against the other races then you better dont doubt him. He says on EQUAL skill it is really hard and if the opponent doesnt do any mistakes. And it kinda fits to what DRG said in his MLG interview where he said that he wouldnt lose to terran unless he screwed up
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Terrans and Tosses have inherited the Kong line whereas DRG has inherited the Dong line. Thou shall take complete responsibility for all your losses and wins.
except DRG has said at least on two seperate accounts that Protoss was overpowered, and has made the biggest 'balance statement' of any pros saying that he can't lose if he plays well, even if his opponent plays perfectly.
DongRaeGu is an outlier go find me someone else with 600 EPM and we'll talk.
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Terrans and Tosses have inherited the Kong line whereas DRG has inherited the Dong line. Thou shall take complete responsibility for all your losses and wins.
except DRG has said at least on two seperate accounts that Protoss was overpowered, and has made the biggest 'balance statement' of any pros saying that he can't lose if he plays well, even if his opponent plays perfectly.
mvp is saying the same thing, he just seems to think that way about tvp and tvz...But as i said ealier, i think his interviews are half-truths. He lies and mind-games the shit out of people. Thats why MVP is the king
Exactly this. I said in my previous post he is the king of mindgames.
Yea i saw that post, it makes perfect sense though. You can see things contradicting themselves from interview to interview. I think half of his game is to make the opponents think he is having it 'rougher' than he is. 'Sowing some doubt' as they would put it. Then he goes on to explain how he was supposed to be third, yet seems to indicate that happy and him planned on being first and second. Last GSL finals. Even after he cheesed sooooo many times. HIs interview he would be like 'macro games were planned, i dont plan on allining next series, i just saw a quick way to win'. The next game comes along, bam, 'all-in'. He plays to win. He does it very well. He is a champion, through and through.
Genius is joining liquid guys. He's practasing with taeja, liquid needs a strong korean protoss and the liquid rising documentry aligns nicely with his team retirement where they're announcing the recruit.
On June 15 2012 03:32 AsymptoticClimax wrote: Genius is joining liquid guys. He's practasing with taeja, liquid needs a strong korean protoss and the liquid rising documentry aligns nicely with his team retirement where they're announcing the recruit.
Lol, so when MVP answers a specific question in an interview, it is a whine. But when MKP, DRG does it on twitter without anyone asking them, they shouldn't be taken seriously? Nice double standard...
On June 15 2012 03:34 vthree wrote: Lol, so when MVP answers a specific question in an interview, it is a whine. But when MKP, DRG does it on twitter without anyone asking them, they shouldn't be taken seriously? Nice double standard...
The people complaining, are complaining about all the pros. Nobody is being picky/choosy. i see bashing on mvp/genius/nestea/drg...no double standards, the people bashing are at least encompassing all the pros
its the interviewers fault, as many have said stop asking questions that revolve around balance
On June 15 2012 03:38 vthree wrote: No, people are saying MKP and DRG NEVER whine. And when shown evidence, they claim 'oh, it's twitter and they are joking around'.
a few people defended mkp and drg, but that happens because they have such large fanbase, that wasn't the majority in this thread
reading the whole thread though shows that what I said above is true. Nobody is really cherrypicking apart from 1 or 2 users. The people complaining about balance whiners are emcompassing all pros, at least the ones who aren't trolling. You have to learn to ignore that. Not 'yell' at the whole thread when your just disagreeing with like 2 people in total.
to calm you down, realize most of us know that all the big time pros are guilty of balance complaints. Some may be more severe than others, but they all do it
There's nothing wrong with saying one cannot lose if he plays perfectly. If flash can't lose when he plays perfectly, does it mean terran is imbalanced? Even JD has said sc2 zerg has a high enough skill cap mechanically for him to outshine other zergs. Take their opinions with a grain of salt. They might be boasting, whining, playing mind games, or just entertaining their fans.
On June 15 2012 03:44 babysimba wrote: There's nothing wrong with saying one cannot lose if he plays perfectly. If flash can't lose when he plays perfectly, does it mean terran is imbalanced? Even JD has said sc2 zerg has a high enough skill cap mechanically for him to outshine other zergs. Take their opinions with a grain of salt. They might be boasting, whining, playing mind games, or just entertaining their fans.
Nobody said "perfectly." DRG said it didn't matter if any other player played well against him as long as he played well. So what, when two players both play well, the Zerg gets an easy win? I know Zerg players like to pretend DRG is on a level above Code S, but he isn't. He's a talented player, yes, but there are plenty of them, many of whom are definitely on the same level as DRG.
On June 15 2012 02:54 namste wrote: I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
I picked a Zerg but since the finals, I hadn't played a single TvZ. So I had no idea how strong Zerg was in the current metagame. I did really badly against Zerg in practice so I couldn’t be certain about winning. I came to the studio thinking that I should avoid straight losses at least.
Lately, there is talk of Zerg being OP.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
How do you think it will be for you to take on a top level Zerg?
I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately. Unless I come up with a new strategy or build, it’ll stay like that. The Terran race needs a revolutionist.
Before the match, you said that the six queen build is very strong
I tried playing Zerg on the ladder and met a lot of barcode Terrans. All those Terrans opted for an all-in build. I defended all of those all-ins with the six queen build. Unless, it’s a super early marine/scv cheese rush, six queens can hold anything.
He didn't whine in any of those lines? He just stated that he and other terrans are having a lot of difficulties against other races at the moment and that the Terran race needs a revolutionist who solves the match-ups. Not at any point he whine about the game balance itself, just the metagame needs a solution from Terran players. To me he seems to be talking about the balance in metagame, which currently favors Zerg and Protoss more than Terran, rather than actual game imbalance.
I myself am a Terran player and I'm actually surprised that he didn't call out to Blizzard to do something about the current situation. Shows how smart this guy really is. Huge respect!
On June 15 2012 03:44 babysimba wrote: There's nothing wrong with saying one cannot lose if he plays perfectly. If flash can't lose when he plays perfectly, does it mean terran is imbalanced? Even JD has said sc2 zerg has a high enough skill cap mechanically for him to outshine other zergs. Take their opinions with a grain of salt. They might be boasting, whining, playing mind games, or just entertaining their fans.
Nobody said "perfectly." DRG said it didn't matter if any other player played well against him as long as he played well. So what, when two players both play well, the Zerg gets an easy win? I know Zerg players like to pretend DRG is on a level above Code S, but he isn't. He's a talented player, yes, but there are plenty of them, many of whom are definitely on the same level as DRG.
Tell me which zerg is on DRG level? DRG is the best zerg NOW.The guy got a freaking average 450 EAPM. I could even say he is the strongest player in terms of mechanic and speed.
Anyways, TvZ match-up is favoring the zerg currently.
OMG Please don't take DRG words so literally. He was just confident that he could beat anybody in MLG after beating MKP in the winners final.
On June 15 2012 03:44 babysimba wrote: There's nothing wrong with saying one cannot lose if he plays perfectly. If flash can't lose when he plays perfectly, does it mean terran is imbalanced? Even JD has said sc2 zerg has a high enough skill cap mechanically for him to outshine other zergs. Take their opinions with a grain of salt. They might be boasting, whining, playing mind games, or just entertaining their fans.
Nobody said "perfectly." DRG said it didn't matter if any other player played well against him as long as he played well. So what, when two players both play well, the Zerg gets an easy win? I know Zerg players like to pretend DRG is on a level above Code S, but he isn't. He's a talented player, yes, but there are plenty of them, many of whom are definitely on the same level as DRG.
Tell me which zerg is on DRG level? DRG is the best zerg NOW.The guy got a freaking average 450 EAPM. I could even say he is the strongest player in terms of mechanic and speed.
Anyways, TvZ match-up is favoring the zerg currently.
OMG Please don't take DRG words so literally. He was just confident that he could beat anybody in MLG after beating MKP in the winners final.
...I'm talking about the fact that there are players of other races who have the same skill level as DRG.
On June 15 2012 03:44 babysimba wrote: There's nothing wrong with saying one cannot lose if he plays perfectly. If flash can't lose when he plays perfectly, does it mean terran is imbalanced? Even JD has said sc2 zerg has a high enough skill cap mechanically for him to outshine other zergs. Take their opinions with a grain of salt. They might be boasting, whining, playing mind games, or just entertaining their fans.
Nobody said "perfectly." DRG said it didn't matter if any other player played well against him as long as he played well. So what, when two players both play well, the Zerg gets an easy win? I know Zerg players like to pretend DRG is on a level above Code S, but he isn't. He's a talented player, yes, but there are plenty of them, many of whom are definitely on the same level as DRG.
Tell me which zerg is on DRG level? DRG is the best zerg NOW.The guy got a freaking average 450 EAPM. I could even say he is the strongest player in terms of mechanic and speed.
Anyways, TvZ match-up is favoring the zerg currently.
OMG Please don't take DRG words so literally. He was just confident that he could beat anybody in MLG after beating MKP in the winners final.
...I'm talking about the fact that there are players of other races who have the same skill level as DRG.
It's hard to compare across races. And you have absolutely no facts backing your argument. In addition, I have yet to see any Terran or Protoss hit 600 EPM as everyone did during last weekend's MLG.
On June 15 2012 03:44 babysimba wrote: There's nothing wrong with saying one cannot lose if he plays perfectly. If flash can't lose when he plays perfectly, does it mean terran is imbalanced? Even JD has said sc2 zerg has a high enough skill cap mechanically for him to outshine other zergs. Take their opinions with a grain of salt. They might be boasting, whining, playing mind games, or just entertaining their fans.
Nobody said "perfectly." DRG said it didn't matter if any other player played well against him as long as he played well. So what, when two players both play well, the Zerg gets an easy win? I know Zerg players like to pretend DRG is on a level above Code S, but he isn't. He's a talented player, yes, but there are plenty of them, many of whom are definitely on the same level as DRG.
Tell me which zerg is on DRG level? DRG is the best zerg NOW.The guy got a freaking average 450 EAPM. I could even say he is the strongest player in terms of mechanic and speed.
Anyways, TvZ match-up is favoring the zerg currently.
OMG Please don't take DRG words so literally. He was just confident that he could beat anybody in MLG after beating MKP in the winners final.
...I'm talking about the fact that there are players of other races who have the same skill level as DRG.
It's hard to compare across races. And you have absolutely no facts backing your argument. In addition, I have yet to see any Terran or Protoss hit 600 EPM as everyone did during last weekend's MLG.
APM has nothing to do with it. Zerg players naturally have higher "EPM" because they're Creep Spreading and Injecting. I wouldn't say DRG's control is any better than MKP's, for one thing.
On June 14 2012 21:22 storywriter wrote: Lately, Zerg is doing really well compared to other races, how do you feel about that?
Zerg is so good right now. I’ve been telling David Kim for a long time to reduce the observer build time and cost as well as nerf larva inject to three larvae per inject and finally, the observer has been patched. The inject nerf should be coming along.
On June 14 2012 21:22 storywriter wrote: Lately, Zerg is doing really well compared to other races, how do you feel about that?
Zerg is so good right now. I’ve been telling David Kim for a long time to reduce the observer build time and cost as well as nerf larva inject to three larvae per inject and finally, the observer has been patched. The inject nerf should be coming along.
On June 15 2012 03:44 babysimba wrote: There's nothing wrong with saying one cannot lose if he plays perfectly. If flash can't lose when he plays perfectly, does it mean terran is imbalanced? Even JD has said sc2 zerg has a high enough skill cap mechanically for him to outshine other zergs. Take their opinions with a grain of salt. They might be boasting, whining, playing mind games, or just entertaining their fans.
Nobody said "perfectly." DRG said it didn't matter if any other player played well against him as long as he played well. So what, when two players both play well, the Zerg gets an easy win? I know Zerg players like to pretend DRG is on a level above Code S, but he isn't. He's a talented player, yes, but there are plenty of them, many of whom are definitely on the same level as DRG.
Tell me which zerg is on DRG level? DRG is the best zerg NOW.The guy got a freaking average 450 EAPM. I could even say he is the strongest player in terms of mechanic and speed.
Anyways, TvZ match-up is favoring the zerg currently.
OMG Please don't take DRG words so literally. He was just confident that he could beat anybody in MLG after beating MKP in the winners final.
APM doesn´t mean shit. You really don´t need that much for SCII atm. Also, even if DRG is the best player in the world, the fact that he will win no matter what if he plays his best is not how the state game should be.
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Terrans and Tosses have inherited the Kong line whereas DRG has inherited the Dong line. Thou shall take complete responsibility for all your losses and wins.
except DRG has said at least on two seperate accounts that Protoss was overpowered, and has made the biggest 'balance statement' of any pros saying that he can't lose if he plays well, even if his opponent plays perfectly.
mvp is saying the same thing, he just seems to think that way about tvp and tvz...But as i said ealier, i think his interviews are half-truths. He lies and mind-games the shit out of people. Thats why MVP is the king
Exactly this. I said in my previous post he is the king of mindgames.
So initially you said Mvp was whining, now you're saying he's just mindgaming...lol. Nice contradiction.
On June 15 2012 02:44 glzElectromaster wrote: I don't understand why people are complaining about them being "whiny". Sure, they have their opinions on balance. There's not going to say "the game is always completely balanced". And they don't bring those up themselves. The interviewer asked specifically about the zerg buff to each of them. They'll just look dumb saying that the buff did nothing because it did do a lot. They are the top players of the world for sure, and they play a heck more than most of us do against opponents of the same caliber. I honestly think that the professionals' inputs are what's going to make the game better, so I'd rather have them discuss it publicly (although I do agree that it should be done somewhere other than a post-game interview -.-)
Interesting ideas presented by both of them, although the zerg larvae nerf sounds a little too absurd, although it won't be too hard to get around it by creating more macro hatches (I think Genius wanted to point out how zerg doesn't really need too many production buildings). It was done in broodwar, so it's not impossible at all, but it might be interesting to see how it'll affect the game.
Won't be too hard???LOL
Nerfing the larvae inject is literally nerfing the macro mechanics and the production of zerg. Larva is the basis of the zerg economy and army.
Kinda sounds like when they nerfed barracks build time to deal with ONE OPENER, thus setting back the entire Terran tech tree... but don't worry, Blizzard is not going to nerf Zerg at all just before the Zerg expansion comes out, you will be safe for a while at least.
Which opener are you talking about?
Even when the barrack time was nerfed, it was Gom TvT and the era where terran were owning zergs and toss left and right.
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Terrans and Tosses have inherited the Kong line whereas DRG has inherited the Dong line. Thou shall take complete responsibility for all your losses and wins.
except DRG has said at least on two seperate accounts that Protoss was overpowered, and has made the biggest 'balance statement' of any pros saying that he can't lose if he plays well, even if his opponent plays perfectly.
mvp is saying the same thing, he just seems to think that way about tvp and tvz...But as i said ealier, i think his interviews are half-truths. He lies and mind-games the shit out of people. Thats why MVP is the king
Exactly this. I said in my previous post he is the king of mindgames.
So initially you said Mvp was whining, now you're saying he's just mindgaming...lol. Nice contradiction.
to all the people that say mvp is whining: he is much much better than you in all three races. If you watch his games vs sushohin you can see the mind games he plays with him. MVP is not only themost sucessful sc2 player but also, one who clearly thinks about the game.Theres no motive for him to whine when he won.
MVP isn't really whining, he's stating the facts from his viewpoint. He played Zerg. He did the 6 queen opening. He destroyed all those lllllllll terrans on ladder. 6 queens = tons of injects, defense, creep spread.
We'll have to wait to see if a BW Terran pro can come up with anything. But unfortunately, SPL is still mostly PvP fest.
On June 15 2012 05:44 the_business_og wrote: to all the people that say mvp is whining: he is much much better than you in all three races. If you watch his games vs sushohin you can see the mind games he plays with him. MVP is not only themost sucessful sc2 player but also, one who clearly thinks about the game.Theres no motive for him to whine when he won.
He might be feeling partially responsible for some of terran nerfs. I don't think he should be.
On June 15 2012 05:44 the_business_og wrote: to all the people that say mvp is whining: he is much much better than you in all three races. If you watch his games vs sushohin you can see the mind games he plays with him. MVP is not only themost sucessful sc2 player but also, one who clearly thinks about the game.Theres no motive for him to whine when he won.
He might be feeling partially responsible for some of terran nerfs. I don't think he should be.
He's like 90% of the reasons behind the Ghost nerf tho. <<
On June 15 2012 05:44 the_business_og wrote: to all the people that say mvp is whining: he is much much better than you in all three races. If you watch his games vs sushohin you can see the mind games he plays with him. MVP is not only themost sucessful sc2 player but also, one who clearly thinks about the game.Theres no motive for him to whine when he won.
He might be feeling partially responsible for some of terran nerfs. I don't think he should be.
He's like 90% of the reasons behind the Ghost nerf tho. <<
On June 15 2012 05:44 the_business_og wrote: to all the people that say mvp is whining: he is much much better than you in all three races. If you watch his games vs sushohin you can see the mind games he plays with him. MVP is not only themost sucessful sc2 player but also, one who clearly thinks about the game.Theres no motive for him to whine when he won.
He might be feeling partially responsible for some of terran nerfs. I don't think he should be.
He's like 90% of the reasons behind the Ghost nerf tho. <<
bru frame too. his tvt was become too imba
Blue flame was mostly the fault of Slayers, especially during MLG Columbus. If people on these boards think the Terran whining right now is bad, they don't remember the era of blue flame.
Damn this thread has a lot of responses for a GSL interview thread, Mvp is a popular guy.
Anyway, Mvp has played random on ladder since forever. I'm sure he knows what's OP and what's not, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with this interview. Interviewers need to stop asking balance related questions if you don't want to hear about it.
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Because zerg players were bad, and it had nothing to do with balance.
On June 15 2012 00:29 Bagration wrote: It's definitely an indicator that something may be off when the world's best player is complaining about balance... :|
April 2011 before blue flamme, ghost, thor nerfs,etc Terran is the weakest race...
Haha, i remember that one...Lets be serious here people, nestea will probably say that zerg is the weakest race too. It's in those korean progamers nature to feel like they are doing badly and something is holding them back, its what makes them strive to do better.
MVP said that since GSL had just switched from the small ish maps like Xel Naga caverns to the massive maps like Tal'Darim altar and the space Tal'Darim altar one (forgot the name), and all of the terrans timing attacks had been affected by this. New things were eventually figured out by terrans as is the norm, and were nerfed, as is also the norm.
On June 15 2012 03:44 babysimba wrote: There's nothing wrong with saying one cannot lose if he plays perfectly. If flash can't lose when he plays perfectly, does it mean terran is imbalanced? Even JD has said sc2 zerg has a high enough skill cap mechanically for him to outshine other zergs. Take their opinions with a grain of salt. They might be boasting, whining, playing mind games, or just entertaining their fans.
Nobody said "perfectly." DRG said it didn't matter if any other player played well against him as long as he played well. So what, when two players both play well, the Zerg gets an easy win? I know Zerg players like to pretend DRG is on a level above Code S, but he isn't. He's a talented player, yes, but there are plenty of them, many of whom are definitely on the same level as DRG.
Tell me which zerg is on DRG level? DRG is the best zerg NOW.The guy got a freaking average 450 EAPM. I could even say he is the strongest player in terms of mechanic and speed.
Anyways, TvZ match-up is favoring the zerg currently.
OMG Please don't take DRG words so literally. He was just confident that he could beat anybody in MLG after beating MKP in the winners final.
...I'm talking about the fact that there are players of other races who have the same skill level as DRG.
It's hard to compare across races. And you have absolutely no facts backing your argument. In addition, I have yet to see any Terran or Protoss hit 600 EPM as everyone did during last weekend's MLG.
High EAPM doesn't make you the better player.
Jesus, people on TL need to stop having an orgasm over high APM. It doesn't matter that much.
On June 15 2012 03:44 babysimba wrote: There's nothing wrong with saying one cannot lose if he plays perfectly. If flash can't lose when he plays perfectly, does it mean terran is imbalanced? Even JD has said sc2 zerg has a high enough skill cap mechanically for him to outshine other zergs. Take their opinions with a grain of salt. They might be boasting, whining, playing mind games, or just entertaining their fans.
Nobody said "perfectly." DRG said it didn't matter if any other player played well against him as long as he played well. So what, when two players both play well, the Zerg gets an easy win? I know Zerg players like to pretend DRG is on a level above Code S, but he isn't. He's a talented player, yes, but there are plenty of them, many of whom are definitely on the same level as DRG.
Tell me which zerg is on DRG level? DRG is the best zerg NOW.The guy got a freaking average 450 EAPM. I could even say he is the strongest player in terms of mechanic and speed.
Anyways, TvZ match-up is favoring the zerg currently.
OMG Please don't take DRG words so literally. He was just confident that he could beat anybody in MLG after beating MKP in the winners final.
...I'm talking about the fact that there are players of other races who have the same skill level as DRG.
It's hard to compare across races. And you have absolutely no facts backing your argument. In addition, I have yet to see any Terran or Protoss hit 600 EPM as everyone did during last weekend's MLG.
High EAPM doesn't make you the better player.
Jesus, people on TL need to stop having an orgasm over high APM. It doesn't matter that much.
But Flash is/was the fastest player in BW, that's why he is a god. /sarcasm
On June 15 2012 03:44 babysimba wrote: There's nothing wrong with saying one cannot lose if he plays perfectly. If flash can't lose when he plays perfectly, does it mean terran is imbalanced? Even JD has said sc2 zerg has a high enough skill cap mechanically for him to outshine other zergs. Take their opinions with a grain of salt. They might be boasting, whining, playing mind games, or just entertaining their fans.
Nobody said "perfectly." DRG said it didn't matter if any other player played well against him as long as he played well. So what, when two players both play well, the Zerg gets an easy win? I know Zerg players like to pretend DRG is on a level above Code S, but he isn't. He's a talented player, yes, but there are plenty of them, many of whom are definitely on the same level as DRG.
Tell me which zerg is on DRG level? DRG is the best zerg NOW.The guy got a freaking average 450 EAPM. I could even say he is the strongest player in terms of mechanic and speed.
Anyways, TvZ match-up is favoring the zerg currently.
OMG Please don't take DRG words so literally. He was just confident that he could beat anybody in MLG after beating MKP in the winners final.
...I'm talking about the fact that there are players of other races who have the same skill level as DRG.
It's hard to compare across races. And you have absolutely no facts backing your argument. In addition, I have yet to see any Terran or Protoss hit 600 EPM as everyone did during last weekend's MLG.
High EAPM doesn't make you the better player.
Jesus, people on TL need to stop having an orgasm over high APM. It doesn't matter that much.
But Flash is/was the fastest player in BW, that's why he is a god.
On June 15 2012 03:44 babysimba wrote: There's nothing wrong with saying one cannot lose if he plays perfectly. If flash can't lose when he plays perfectly, does it mean terran is imbalanced? Even JD has said sc2 zerg has a high enough skill cap mechanically for him to outshine other zergs. Take their opinions with a grain of salt. They might be boasting, whining, playing mind games, or just entertaining their fans.
Nobody said "perfectly." DRG said it didn't matter if any other player played well against him as long as he played well. So what, when two players both play well, the Zerg gets an easy win? I know Zerg players like to pretend DRG is on a level above Code S, but he isn't. He's a talented player, yes, but there are plenty of them, many of whom are definitely on the same level as DRG.
Tell me which zerg is on DRG level? DRG is the best zerg NOW.The guy got a freaking average 450 EAPM. I could even say he is the strongest player in terms of mechanic and speed.
Anyways, TvZ match-up is favoring the zerg currently.
OMG Please don't take DRG words so literally. He was just confident that he could beat anybody in MLG after beating MKP in the winners final.
...I'm talking about the fact that there are players of other races who have the same skill level as DRG.
It's hard to compare across races. And you have absolutely no facts backing your argument. In addition, I have yet to see any Terran or Protoss hit 600 EPM as everyone did during last weekend's MLG.
High EAPM doesn't make you the better player.
Jesus, people on TL need to stop having an orgasm over high APM. It doesn't matter that much.
But Flash is/was the fastest player in BW, that's why he is a god.
On June 15 2012 05:44 the_business_og wrote: to all the people that say mvp is whining: he is much much better than you in all three races. If you watch his games vs sushohin you can see the mind games he plays with him. MVP is not only themost sucessful sc2 player but also, one who clearly thinks about the game.Theres no motive for him to whine when he won.
He might be feeling partially responsible for some of terran nerfs. I don't think he should be.
He's like 90% of the reasons behind the Ghost nerf tho. <<
bru frame too. his tvt was become too imba
Blue flame was mostly the fault of Slayers, especially during MLG Columbus. If people on these boards think the Terran whining right now is bad, they don't remember the era of blue flame.
Sometimes it makes you wonder, if Zerg players at that time play early game safe like they do right now, do we really need that nerf. At that time, zerg players played so greedy, no early spine, no roaches, 2,3 queen max,.v..v.v. The metagame was so different.
Nobody said "perfectly." DRG said it didn't matter if any other player played well against him as long as he played well. So what, when two players both play well, the Zerg gets an easy win? I know Zerg players like to pretend DRG is on a level above Code S, but he isn't. He's a talented player, yes, but there are plenty of them, many of whom are definitely on the same level as DRG.
Tell me which zerg is on DRG level? DRG is the best zerg NOW.The guy got a freaking average 450 EAPM. I could even say he is the strongest player in terms of mechanic and speed.
Anyways, TvZ match-up is favoring the zerg currently.
OMG Please don't take DRG words so literally. He was just confident that he could beat anybody in MLG after beating MKP in the winners final.
You do realize that he got 450 eapm because he spams attack move which is 600-700 eapm. I as protoss think too that terran is way too weak that this point considering we've seen alive,mkp and others get wiped on the floor with other races.
On June 15 2012 03:44 babysimba wrote: There's nothing wrong with saying one cannot lose if he plays perfectly. If flash can't lose when he plays perfectly, does it mean terran is imbalanced? Even JD has said sc2 zerg has a high enough skill cap mechanically for him to outshine other zergs. Take their opinions with a grain of salt. They might be boasting, whining, playing mind games, or just entertaining their fans.
Nobody said "perfectly." DRG said it didn't matter if any other player played well against him as long as he played well. So what, when two players both play well, the Zerg gets an easy win? I know Zerg players like to pretend DRG is on a level above Code S, but he isn't. He's a talented player, yes, but there are plenty of them, many of whom are definitely on the same level as DRG.
Tell me which zerg is on DRG level? DRG is the best zerg NOW.The guy got a freaking average 450 EAPM. I could even say he is the strongest player in terms of mechanic and speed.
Anyways, TvZ match-up is favoring the zerg currently.
OMG Please don't take DRG words so literally. He was just confident that he could beat anybody in MLG after beating MKP in the winners final.
APM doesn´t mean shit. You really don´t need that much for SCII atm. Also, even if DRG is the best player in the world, the fact that he will win no matter what if he plays his best is not how the state game should be.
So the best player in the world playing his best should lose.
Glad MVP once again was able to advance, he is such a boss. I wonder if his wrists are finally healed, didn't hear him mention them in quite a while. Also, as usual thanks storywriter <3
"However, because we are young, we still have plenty of opportunities. I hope those progamers decide to walk down a path other than gaming. If you feel like gaming might not be for you, you should try something new. I give this advice because I saw many in Starcraft 1 who suffered even more later on because they weren’t able to give up gaming. I’ve been meaning to say this for a while now but only got to do it now. "
On June 15 2012 07:00 kratos-23 wrote: "However, because we are young, we still have plenty of opportunities. I hope those progamers decide to walk down a path other than gaming. If you feel like gaming might not be for you, you should try something new. I give this advice because I saw many in Starcraft 1 who suffered even more later on because they weren’t able to give up gaming. I’ve been meaning to say this for a while now but only got to do it now. "
mvp afraid of new competition?
not sure how you managed to get that out of that
he's saying a lot of BW pros are confused as to what to do now that BW is almost dead, and that they should not continue pro-gaming in sc2 if they don't enjoy it just because they are afraid to do something else in life.
On June 15 2012 03:44 babysimba wrote: There's nothing wrong with saying one cannot lose if he plays perfectly. If flash can't lose when he plays perfectly, does it mean terran is imbalanced? Even JD has said sc2 zerg has a high enough skill cap mechanically for him to outshine other zergs. Take their opinions with a grain of salt. They might be boasting, whining, playing mind games, or just entertaining their fans.
Nobody said "perfectly." DRG said it didn't matter if any other player played well against him as long as he played well. So what, when two players both play well, the Zerg gets an easy win? I know Zerg players like to pretend DRG is on a level above Code S, but he isn't. He's a talented player, yes, but there are plenty of them, many of whom are definitely on the same level as DRG.
Tell me which zerg is on DRG level? DRG is the best zerg NOW.The guy got a freaking average 450 EAPM. I could even say he is the strongest player in terms of mechanic and speed.
Anyways, TvZ match-up is favoring the zerg currently.
OMG Please don't take DRG words so literally. He was just confident that he could beat anybody in MLG after beating MKP in the winners final.
APM doesn´t mean shit. You really don´t need that much for SCII atm. Also, even if DRG is the best player in the world, the fact that he will win no matter what if he plays his best is not how the state game should be.
So the best player in the world playing his best should lose.
Yes. Aside from the fact that DRG isn't far and away the best player in the world (there isn't a clear best at this point in time) there are people who can put in uncharacteristically stellar performances and take down legends like Flash even when Flash is playing well.
On June 15 2012 07:00 kratos-23 wrote: "However, because we are young, we still have plenty of opportunities. I hope those progamers decide to walk down a path other than gaming. If you feel like gaming might not be for you, you should try something new. I give this advice because I saw many in Starcraft 1 who suffered even more later on because they weren’t able to give up gaming. I’ve been meaning to say this for a while now but only got to do it now. "
mvp afraid of new competition?
not sure how you managed to get that out of that
he's saying a lot of BW pros are confused as to what to do now that BW is almost dead, and that they should not continue pro-gaming in sc2 if they don't enjoy it just because they are afraid to do something else in life.
he said "I hope those progamers decide to walk down a path other than gaming." can't make it clearer for you.
On June 15 2012 07:00 kratos-23 wrote: "However, because we are young, we still have plenty of opportunities. I hope those progamers decide to walk down a path other than gaming. If you feel like gaming might not be for you, you should try something new. I give this advice because I saw many in Starcraft 1 who suffered even more later on because they weren’t able to give up gaming. I’ve been meaning to say this for a while now but only got to do it now. "
mvp afraid of new competition?
not sure how you managed to get that out of that
he's saying a lot of BW pros are confused as to what to do now that BW is almost dead, and that they should not continue pro-gaming in sc2 if they don't enjoy it just because they are afraid to do something else in life.
he said "I hope those progamers decide to walk down a path other than gaming." can't make it clearer for you.
Is english not your first language? He doesn't want progamers who have lost their passion to feel forced to continue down that path because people have been burned by it before.
On June 15 2012 07:00 kratos-23 wrote: "However, because we are young, we still have plenty of opportunities. I hope those progamers decide to walk down a path other than gaming. If you feel like gaming might not be for you, you should try something new. I give this advice because I saw many in Starcraft 1 who suffered even more later on because they weren’t able to give up gaming. I’ve been meaning to say this for a while now but only got to do it now. "
mvp afraid of new competition?
not sure how you managed to get that out of that
he's saying a lot of BW pros are confused as to what to do now that BW is almost dead, and that they should not continue pro-gaming in sc2 if they don't enjoy it just because they are afraid to do something else in life.
he said "I hope those progamers decide to walk down a path other than gaming." can't make it clearer for you.
On June 15 2012 02:54 namste wrote: I couldn't detect any _whine_ in the Mvp interview, he just stated that terran is having hard time right now as a race in general. I think the word whine has lost the little meaning it ever had.
What interview did you read?
Why were you going for third place?
I picked a Zerg but since the finals, I hadn't played a single TvZ. So I had no idea how strong Zerg was in the current metagame. I did really badly against Zerg in practice so I couldn’t be certain about winning. I came to the studio thinking that I should avoid straight losses at least.
Lately, there is talk of Zerg being OP.
There’s a reason I aimed only for third place. Lately, my win rate for TvZ and TvP are only at 30% or so. The only reason a Zerg or Protoss loses in a broadcasted match is because they don’t play their best. Unless those races make a mistake, it’s really hard for Terran to win. Until we come up with something new, it’ll continue to be hard for Terrans. Back when Toss was the OP race, Terran could at least deal with it. But now, there is nothing we can do against Zerg. If you have two players of equal skill, the Terran cannot beat the Zerg.
How do you think it will be for you to take on a top level Zerg?
I haven’t won a single game against Nestea lately. Unless I come up with a new strategy or build, it’ll stay like that. The Terran race needs a revolutionist.
Before the match, you said that the six queen build is very strong
I tried playing Zerg on the ladder and met a lot of barcode Terrans. All those Terrans opted for an all-in build. I defended all of those all-ins with the six queen build. Unless, it’s a super early marine/scv cheese rush, six queens can hold anything.
How is that whine? If there's anyone who has an idea what hes talking about its MVP. Can you disprove his points?
When he said we got nothing we can do against zerg, he was whining.
Also, six queen build can hold ANYTHING??? Wow i did not know that then why zergs are not going 6 queen build all the way????
Please eventhough its MVP you should know whether a player is whining or not.
You have no idea what MVP has been trough, if he said he couldn't win any game vs Zerg and couldn't do anything, then you better believe he couldn't do anything.
And you know a lot of pro gamers off race form time to time to gain insight on the other race, and fish for ideas on how to counter a particular thing, if Mvp played Zerg and could defend any early aggression with a 6 queen build then that is pretty damning. If out of all the terrans that MVP meet on ladder if no one could find a pressure or all-in build to kill or challenge his 6 queen build, then it is quite worrisome.
I find this funny actually. MVP:Lately my TvZ are only at 30% or so and i haven't won a single game against Nestea recently Nestea:When IM team members practice against each other, the Terrans win most of the time.
Please MVP was whining when he said there is nothing terran can do against zerg.
Mvp is not all IM Terrans. Also, a statement like that can be attributed to a gap in skill between the IM Terrans and the rest of the IM players, while an overall low win rate in all of Mvp's matchups except TvT indicates that he's having trouble against people on ladder and practice partners which could skew his winrate from his games against his (besides nestea and losira) relatively low-level teammates. Basically; Mvp is winning slightly more against the bad players on IM (not including Nestea and maybe losira), while he's losing more to the better players from other teams and on ladder.
Also, from the same Nestea interview: "I feel like as long as I keep facing Terrans, I will make it all the way to the championship." When has Nestea ever been strongest against Terran?
Pretty sure blizzard won't change anything till Heart of the swarm, which means a year of botched tournaments. DRG will simply not lose to anyone, best mechanical player combined with map hacks (creep + nitropack overlords) can't lose. He also knows how to react to everything he scouts, this buff will significantly increase his tournament wins.
On June 14 2012 23:33 Poisonblack wrote: the king of terran is also the king of whining.. unsurprisingly
mvp very rarely whines, doesn't he?
He used to not whine so much, but I think after he got his wrist problems since August he has started to whine more and more in interviews. At least that's my opinion.
He's always been whining. It was GomTvT, Protoss was struggling and Zerg seemed hopeless...and according to Mvp Terran needed buffs. Take his balance complaints with a grain of salt.
And ignore Genius. Protoss had a 65% win rate against Zerg, Terrans had started their slow decline, Zergs were struggling..and Genius was complaining that Protoss was UP and had no idea why everyone else, including his Protoss colleagues, was saying Protoss was strong.
These guys are pro gamers, they will (almost) always be biased for their own race. But if I learned anything in my life, it's that there is always a LITTLE BIT of truth in anything. It doesn't really matter what color the house is painted but the fact that it exists. So yeah, acknowledge that they said what they said. Think about it for yourself, don't take what they say at face value because they have their own agendas.
On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote: Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet.
DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Terrans and Tosses have inherited the Kong line whereas DRG has inherited the Dong line. Thou shall take complete responsibility for all your losses and wins.
First time I saw him giving interview was at DH invitational and I remember him saying "Terran EZPZ". That was way before the many nerfs Terrans received since then. The guy has such a positive attitude toward the game and the balance, always trying to be better.
Completely different from MVP/Nestea/Genius, etc. (Though Genius' grumbling is normally not a serious one) Nestea/MVP are a different case, who definitely see the game as their source of income and are willing to voice their opinions which are obviously biased favorably for themselves. They want to be heard, of course. Especially by D. Kim. Think of Idra.
And now compare that to DRG/MKP's attitude. Maybe because it's due to their age but their balance comments are nowhere near as phony or intense as MVP/Nestea's. (Nestea's games in RO32 this season were underwhelming, to say the least)
On June 14 2012 23:33 Poisonblack wrote: the king of terran is also the king of whining.. unsurprisingly
mvp very rarely whines, doesn't he?
He used to not whine so much, but I think after he got his wrist problems since August he has started to whine more and more in interviews. At least that's my opinion.
He's always been whining. It was GomTvT, Protoss was struggling and Zerg seemed hopeless...and according to Mvp Terran needed buffs. Take his balance complaints with a grain of salt.
And ignore Genius. Protoss had a 65% win rate against Zerg, Terrans had started their slow decline, Zergs were struggling..and Genius was complaining that Protoss was UP and had no idea why everyone else, including his Protoss colleagues, was saying Protoss was strong.
These guys are pro gamers, they will (almost) always be biased for their own race. But if I learned anything in my life, it's that there is always a LITTLE BIT of truth in anything. It doesn't really matter what color the house is painted but the fact that it exists. So yeah, acknowledge that they said what they said. Think about it for yourself, don't take what they say at face value because they have their own agendas.
So basically what you're saying (as a Zerg player) is not to listen to these Terran and Protoss whiners complaining about Zerg imbalance, because everyone is biased to their own race?
On June 14 2012 23:33 Poisonblack wrote: the king of terran is also the king of whining.. unsurprisingly
mvp very rarely whines, doesn't he?
He used to not whine so much, but I think after he got his wrist problems since August he has started to whine more and more in interviews. At least that's my opinion.
He's always been whining. It was GomTvT, Protoss was struggling and Zerg seemed hopeless...and according to Mvp Terran needed buffs. Take his balance complaints with a grain of salt.
And ignore Genius. Protoss had a 65% win rate against Zerg, Terrans had started their slow decline, Zergs were struggling..and Genius was complaining that Protoss was UP and had no idea why everyone else, including his Protoss colleagues, was saying Protoss was strong.
These guys are pro gamers, they will (almost) always be biased for their own race. But if I learned anything in my life, it's that there is always a LITTLE BIT of truth in anything. It doesn't really matter what color the house is painted but the fact that it exists. So yeah, acknowledge that they said what they said. Think about it for yourself, don't take what they say at face value because they have their own agendas.
So basically what you're saying (as a Zerg player) is not to listen to these Terran and Protoss whiners complaining about Zerg imbalance, because everyone is biased to their own race?
What about when Stephano said PvZ is easy for Zerg? Or when DRG says he finds ZvT easy?
Then everyone was like 'Yeah, but that's STEPHANO/DRG, obviously they find it easy.'
On June 14 2012 23:33 Poisonblack wrote: the king of terran is also the king of whining.. unsurprisingly
mvp very rarely whines, doesn't he?
He used to not whine so much, but I think after he got his wrist problems since August he has started to whine more and more in interviews. At least that's my opinion.
He's always been whining. It was GomTvT, Protoss was struggling and Zerg seemed hopeless...and according to Mvp Terran needed buffs. Take his balance complaints with a grain of salt.
And ignore Genius. Protoss had a 65% win rate against Zerg, Terrans had started their slow decline, Zergs were struggling..and Genius was complaining that Protoss was UP and had no idea why everyone else, including his Protoss colleagues, was saying Protoss was strong.
These guys are pro gamers, they will (almost) always be biased for their own race. But if I learned anything in my life, it's that there is always a LITTLE BIT of truth in anything. It doesn't really matter what color the house is painted but the fact that it exists. So yeah, acknowledge that they said what they said. Think about it for yourself, don't take what they say at face value because they have their own agendas.
So basically what you're saying (as a Zerg player) is not to listen to these Terran and Protoss whiners complaining about Zerg imbalance, because everyone is biased to their own race?
Did you take the time to read what I said? I said there is most likely some truth to what they said, but know that they have most definitely spun the situation to their advantage. As long as you go in knowing these two people not only have a history of whining frivolously, but that they're pro gamers whose careers can thrive/fall with metagames/balance, there needs to be an understanding that everyone whines for their own races.
For those hailing DRG, he is guilty of it too. Yeah, he doesn't during professional interviews. And then he turns around, goes to Twitter, and says it's impossible to beat a Protoss who has good force fields and that the Zerg has to rely on a Protoss mistake in order to win. Does this sound familiar, but with different races?
Everyone has this knee jerk reaction to a pretty giant metagame shift that MAY OR MAY NOT have balance issues. I never said to IGNORE these guys. Jesus Christ, some of you guys are ridiculous and are willing to cherry pick anything that's said to continue the crying.
On June 14 2012 23:33 Poisonblack wrote: the king of terran is also the king of whining.. unsurprisingly
mvp very rarely whines, doesn't he?
He used to not whine so much, but I think after he got his wrist problems since August he has started to whine more and more in interviews. At least that's my opinion.
He's always been whining. It was GomTvT, Protoss was struggling and Zerg seemed hopeless...and according to Mvp Terran needed buffs. Take his balance complaints with a grain of salt.
And ignore Genius. Protoss had a 65% win rate against Zerg, Terrans had started their slow decline, Zergs were struggling..and Genius was complaining that Protoss was UP and had no idea why everyone else, including his Protoss colleagues, was saying Protoss was strong.
These guys are pro gamers, they will (almost) always be biased for their own race. But if I learned anything in my life, it's that there is always a LITTLE BIT of truth in anything. It doesn't really matter what color the house is painted but the fact that it exists. So yeah, acknowledge that they said what they said. Think about it for yourself, don't take what they say at face value because they have their own agendas.
So basically what you're saying (as a Zerg player) is not to listen to these Terran and Protoss whiners complaining about Zerg imbalance, because everyone is biased to their own race?
You should listen to the concerns of pros but you need to take what they say with a grain of salt, especially when they have complained in the past for absolutely no fucking reason that their race was too weak, neerfed too heavily,etc.
Also, Terran was nerfed the most since the beginning of the game and every time they found something new to take advantage off in TvZ (BFH, ghost, hellions-marauders timings,etc). Maybe that won't/can't happen anymore, but we sure as hell need to make sure it doesn't before reverting back the changes, even if it's a the prize of letting terran be the weakest race for a while in a game they have dominated since day1.
On June 15 2012 08:06 mrjpark wrote: For those hailing DRG, he is guilty of it too. Yeah, he doesn't during professional interviews. And then he turns around, goes to Twitter, and says it's impossible to beat a Protoss who has good force fields and that the Zerg has to rely on a Protoss mistake in order to win. Does this sound familiar, but with different races?
Since I was comparing DRG and the others, you are obviously referring to me as one of those who "hail DRG." Geez. No, I don't hail him. But I find MVP/Nestea's wild balance comments in these official settings pretty distatsteful and wish they were a bit more modest, especially considering their success. Twitts? Who gives a fuck? I am not a sheep following celebrities' twitts. Heck, I don't even have my own twitter account and I don't think anyone cares. Some might care, that's their thing, by which I mean their private lives. You (not YOU, mrjpark) want to be "friends" with a celebrities, good for you. No one stops you. But likewise no one will care. You cannot equate private acts with public acts.
Frankly the bigger fault lies with the interviewer, but obviously that's the nature of media. They need controversies to get the attention. This thread is an example.
Otherwise, I agree with you for the most part. I can see the balance of the game myself and I don't need these pros' biased opinions to form my own opinion. I also agree the knee-jerk reactions by community, provked by pros, are rather silly.
On June 15 2012 00:12 ETisME wrote: nerf inject?! I certainly hope not all pros give such a ground breaking suggestions to balance lol
Would you rather he said "I think roaches should do 1 less damage"? The fact Genius even gave a suggestion is more than most pros just going "oh man nerf xyz" hehe.
Also: MVP zerg race change incoming. I'd love to see him enter OSL as a zerg, and win GSL with terran. Haha what a pipe dream, it's too legendary to think about.
Well, MVP already plays random on the ladder at GM level. So I would imagine the switch, if he were to ever change, would be rather easy for him.
On June 15 2012 08:33 ImNightmare wrote: Nestea says he loses to MVP in recent games and MVP says he loses to Nestea in recent games? Lol, this 2 are playing the mindfuck games.
Exactly. They are playing toward the mass sheep, hoping the sheep will follow their lead in forming false premises, which will benefit themselves.
On June 15 2012 08:33 ImNightmare wrote: Nestea says he loses to MVP in recent games and MVP says he loses to Nestea in recent games? Lol, this 2 are playing the mindfuck games.
Exactly. They are playing toward the mass sheep, hoping the sheep will follow their lead in forming false premises, which will benefit themselves.
you read into these interviews way too much, mvp and nestea are not evil masterminds out to destroy sc2 balance
On June 15 2012 08:33 ImNightmare wrote: Nestea says he loses to MVP in recent games and MVP says he loses to Nestea in recent games? Lol, this 2 are playing the mindfuck games.
Exactly. They are playing toward the mass sheep, hoping the sheep will follow their lead in forming false premises, which will benefit themselves.
Lol yeah, okay. Feel free to name some pro Terrans who are coming out saying TvZ is going well for them, because I've yet to see that happen. All I've seen is a LOT of dissent--both pro and amateur--about the Queen buff. Nobody would be saying anything if it were just MVP complaining, but it isn't. Every Terran is finding it incredibly difficult to win against Zerg, more so than with any other change previous.
Just last season, there were only 2 zergs in the Ro16. And zero in the Ro8. I find it difficult to believe that 2 months later, zerg is "too powerful."
MVP is an incredible player. But possibly full of shit.
On June 15 2012 09:19 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Just last season, there were only 2 zergs in the Ro16. And zero in the Ro8. I find it difficult to believe that 2 months later, zerg is "too powerful."
MVP is an incredible player. But possibly full of shit.
Maybe it has to do with the fact that Nestea/DRG were jet-lagged and both played HORRIBLY. It wasn't that there was a huge patch that everyone agrees screwed everything up...
On June 15 2012 09:19 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Just last season, there were only 2 zergs in the Ro16. And zero in the Ro8. I find it difficult to believe that 2 months later, zerg is "too powerful."
MVP is an incredible player. But possibly full of shit.
I support this sentiment. IMMVP was whining about balance since last year, when Terrans won almost every tournament.
On June 15 2012 09:19 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Just last season, there were only 2 zergs in the Ro16. And zero in the Ro8. I find it difficult to believe that 2 months later, zerg is "too powerful."
MVP is an incredible player. But possibly full of shit.
not like a patch hit since then or anything. We didn't see a top 3 zerg at mlg spring arena 2, or a zerg win mlg spring championships since then. and zerg didn't have the most players qualify for code a either. DRG and Idra didn't say Zerg was favorite in ZvT now. And GSTL isn't being dominated by zerg players.
On June 15 2012 09:19 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Just last season, there were only 2 zergs in the Ro16. And zero in the Ro8. I find it difficult to believe that 2 months later, zerg is "too powerful."
MVP is an incredible player. But possibly full of shit.
not like a patch hit since then or anything. We didn't see a top 3 at mlg spring arena 2, or a zerg win mlg spring championships since then. and zerg didn't have the most players qualify for code a either. DRG and Idra didn't say Zerg was favorite in ZvT now. And GSTL isn't being dominated by zerg players.
Wait a minute, all those things did happen!
Big time win right there, good post... players have been using that excuse for so long, about Terran just dominating EVERYTHING, and now that P and Z make up about 80% of ladder and tourneys theyre still trying to justify all the nerfs, the larger maps, the unnecessary buffs, because once upon a time, Terran might have been/was overpowered and dominating. Obviously, Terran used to dominate, so keep nerfing them, its P and Z time to completely own everything... sound strategy.
On June 15 2012 08:33 ImNightmare wrote: Nestea says he loses to MVP in recent games and MVP says he loses to Nestea in recent games? Lol, this 2 are playing the mindfuck games.
Exactly. They are playing toward the mass sheep, hoping the sheep will follow their lead in forming false premises, which will benefit themselves.
you read into these interviews way too much, mvp and nestea are not evil masterminds out to destroy sc2 balance
I don't know.. They sure have the look to be evil masterminds. :p
On June 15 2012 09:46 Diizzy wrote: yay zerg gets better scouting and a range upgrade for queens and suddenly op. other races just need to learn to use their tier 3 units better.
I'm not sure what T3 units you want Terran players to use, and I'm not even Terran...
On June 15 2012 02:36 neoghaleon55 wrote: Immvp is so whiny. The nerves he has for balance whining at the peak of terran dominance in that artosis interview leaves him with little credibility now.
Its not whining its an observation. Just because his opinion isn't that everything is all fine and dandy and the game is 100% balanced doesn't mean hes "whining". By your logic any negative criticism about anything would be whining
On June 15 2012 09:19 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Just last season, there were only 2 zergs in the Ro16. And zero in the Ro8. I find it difficult to believe that 2 months later, zerg is "too powerful."
MVP is an incredible player. But possibly full of shit.
I support this sentiment. IMMVP was whining about balance since last year, when Terrans won almost every tournament.
There's no way to satisfy this guy!
Keep in mind, when Terran was dominating, Protoss and Zerg players played very differently. Protoss was known for 1-2 base play, and up until recently, never went for late game vs Terran.
Zergs have started implementing infestors into their play much more, and supporting their T3 with transfuses and simply dominating.
Ya, there were some issues with 1-1-1, and 2 rax, that got addressed. Now Terran wants Blizzard to address the problems we're having.
Lets not forget the nearly 30 game win streak Zerg achieved in the GSTL this season. Or the pros such as MKP, MVP, etc acknowledging the situation.
Besides GSTL, TSL4 had their Korean qualifiers yesterday. Again, it is one tournament but it doesn't look good for Terrans in Korea at the moment. 2/16 in ro16 and 1/8 in Ro8. Zergs were 10/16 and 6/8.
Some results from Ro32/Ro16 - Annyeong 2-1 Jjajki, Miya 2-0 Maru, Byul 2-0 MKP. MMA, GKP, aLIve, Keen all did not make Ro32 so not sure who that lost to. So it seems terrans have to figure some counters.
the entire wings of liberty balance has been based on the fact that any foreigner who ever stood a chance against a korean has either been zerg or protoss. therefore in order for white guys to stand a chance and for anyone to care about e-sprots, they had to make these races good. Thorzain is one small exception, no other terran foreigner can consistently compete at a code s level. naniwa and huk would not be where they are today if it wasn't for the race they play. fact. Blizzard knows that nobody gives a shit about this game in korea and I bet they realized the foreigner fan base was the only hope. What better way to keep foreigner attention when korean's start to dominate. nerf the race that the best koreans play and buff the ones that the top foreigners were playing.
Clearly buffing queen's this much creates a spiral effect that not only improves zerg's early game but translates into an even better then it already was lategame. I have followed this scene since day one. I am no longer willing to play or follow a game that rewards which race you pick rather then skill.
conspiracy theory: blizzard management wanted the general public to get hyped for HOTS so they buffed zerg to get the lower level players to switch to Zerg and thus be more excited for HOTS
The more I watch games the more I believe that MVP is correct.
I also agree with MKP that foreign Terrans aren't showing results because of the race they picked. I'm not saying it is impossible to win, but it's very hard to stay consistent.
I am not even a Terran player, so don't call me biased.
On June 15 2012 12:55 Highways wrote: The more I watch games the more I believe that MVP is correct.
I also agree with MKP that foreign Terrans aren't showing results because of the race they picked. I'm not saying it is impossible to win, but it's very hard to stay consistent.
On June 15 2012 12:55 Highways wrote: The more I watch games the more I believe that MVP is correct.
I also agree with MKP that foreign Terrans aren't showing results because of the race they picked. I'm not saying it is impossible to win, but it's very hard to stay consistent.
Where did he say that?
이정훈 @MKPS2 @LiquidJinro other race >>>>>>>>>>> terran
On June 15 2012 12:55 Highways wrote: The more I watch games the more I believe that MVP is correct.
I also agree with MKP that foreign Terrans aren't showing results because of the race they picked. I'm not saying it is impossible to win, but it's very hard to stay consistent.
Where did he say that?
이정훈 @MKPS2 @LiquidJinro other race >>>>>>>>>>> terran
Okay then how did you get what you said from this tweet?
On June 15 2012 12:55 Highways wrote: The more I watch games the more I believe that MVP is correct.
I also agree with MKP that foreign Terrans aren't showing results because of the race they picked. I'm not saying it is impossible to win, but it's very hard to stay consistent.
Where did he say that?
heh even if mkp hadn't said that I agree with it. Terran requires more apm/multi tasking/micro then zerg/protoss. It's a lot harder to play terran at a high korean level due to having to do a lot of splitting, macro, micro and dropping. Terrans just harder to get super gosu with which koreans excell at multitasking/micro/macro and all that so yeah in general I do agree with mkp
On June 15 2012 09:19 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Just last season, there were only 2 zergs in the Ro16. And zero in the Ro8. I find it difficult to believe that 2 months later, zerg is "too powerful."
MVP is an incredible player. But possibly full of shit.
So there was this patch. You might have heard of it...
This is getting ridiculous, a interview and the balance whine starts all over again. Goodness. First there was the gstl where zergs were crushing and people were saying zergs will crush GSL, what happens? Up till now only nestea goes through. Now there is a interview and it starts all over again. This is so funny, its like there are people around who live just to whine about balance.
On June 15 2012 12:55 Highways wrote: The more I watch games the more I believe that MVP is correct.
I also agree with MKP that foreign Terrans aren't showing results because of the race they picked. I'm not saying it is impossible to win, but it's very hard to stay consistent.
Where did he say that?
이정훈 @MKPS2 @LiquidJinro other race >>>>>>>>>>> terran
Okay then how did you get what you said from this tweet?
Am I the only one that thinks the queen buff was good, but the overlord buff was way better??
I mean, if a race is "UP," you don't just give a single, non-combat (go with me here) support unit 2 extra range and make it all of a sudden drastically "OP." I get that small changes have big impacts, but c'mon.
There is a faster-than-ever-before overlord in the corner of a map somewhere - hiding in the shadows, smiling.
On June 15 2012 09:19 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Just last season, there were only 2 zergs in the Ro16. And zero in the Ro8. I find it difficult to believe that 2 months later, zerg is "too powerful."
MVP is an incredible player. But possibly full of shit.
2 months and 1 patch later. AND DONT INSULT MY MVP YOU
On June 15 2012 09:19 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Just last season, there were only 2 zergs in the Ro16. And zero in the Ro8. I find it difficult to believe that 2 months later, zerg is "too powerful."
MVP is an incredible player. But possibly full of shit.
I support this sentiment. IMMVP was whining about balance since last year, when Terrans won almost every tournament.
There's no way to satisfy this guy!
Keep in mind, when Terran was dominating, Protoss and Zerg players played very differently. Protoss was known for 1-2 base play, and up until recently, never went for late game vs Terran.
Zergs have started implementing infestors into their play much more, and supporting their T3 with transfuses and simply dominating.
Ya, there were some issues with 1-1-1, and 2 rax, that got addressed. Now Terran wants Blizzard to address the problems we're having.
Lets not forget the nearly 30 game win streak Zerg achieved in the GSTL this season. Or the pros such as MKP, MVP, etc acknowledging the situation.
The time of 1-2 base timings were long, long ago. And infestors have been used for half a year now too. Zerg is dominating only since the patch.
On June 15 2012 09:46 Diizzy wrote: yay zerg gets better scouting and a range upgrade for queens and suddenly op. other races just need to learn to use their tier 3 units better.
lol what? This is exactly the argument I pointed out. "and suddenly op" No, it wasnt sudden, it has been this way for a long time and it just keeps getting worse. The only reason it does not seem that way is that some of the top pro Terrans are just so friggin good that they can still win. 99% of Terrans (at least the ones that still play) have been struggling in both non mirror match ups for a LOOOONG time. It hasnt been just one patch, its been about a dozen, coupled with larger maps, the metagame developing (figuring out terran timings, early aggression, etc) and several other factors that has made Terran all but impossible to play competitively unless you are a pro.
On June 15 2012 12:13 the_business_og wrote: conspiracy theory: blizzard management wanted the general public to get hyped for HOTS so they buffed zerg to get the lower level players to switch to Zerg and thus be more excited for HOTS
You're giving them too much credit. At best, it's just game designers making rash/poor decisions, as they sometimes did with WoL.
If MVP wins 10 seasons will they still call it the Nestea award? Will they name milestone awards after the first player to reach them? I think it would be both hilarious and kinda cool.
On June 15 2012 10:33 vthree wrote: Besides GSTL, TSL4 had their Korean qualifiers yesterday. Again, it is one tournament but it doesn't look good for Terrans in Korea at the moment. 2/16 in ro16 and 1/8 in Ro8. Zergs were 10/16 and 6/8.
Some results from Ro32/Ro16 - Annyeong 2-1 Jjajki, Miya 2-0 Maru, Byul 2-0 MKP. MMA, GKP, aLIve, Keen all did not make Ro32 so not sure who that lost to. So it seems terrans have to figure some counters.
DRG did play but lost in the first round to Sage. Apparently you can't win ZvP if you forget your Roach Warren.
On June 15 2012 12:13 the_business_og wrote: conspiracy theory: blizzard management wanted the general public to get hyped for HOTS so they buffed zerg to get the lower level players to switch to Zerg and thus be more excited for HOTS
You're giving them too much credit. At best, it's just game designers making rash/poor decisions, as they sometimes did with WoL.
I think they put all three races on a wall and throw darts at them to decide balance changes
On June 15 2012 12:13 the_business_og wrote: conspiracy theory: blizzard management wanted the general public to get hyped for HOTS so they buffed zerg to get the lower level players to switch to Zerg and thus be more excited for HOTS
Balance doesn't mean anything for lower level players.
On June 15 2012 12:13 the_business_og wrote: conspiracy theory: blizzard management wanted the general public to get hyped for HOTS so they buffed zerg to get the lower level players to switch to Zerg and thus be more excited for HOTS
Balance doesn't mean anything for lower level players.
Another dumb argument... if something is easier/harder for a race as a whole, it affects every player on every level, denying that is just stupidity. The only thing that might not affect lower level players is very micro intensive units that are nerfed/buffed because lower level players cannot micro them anyways, but I cant think of any situation where that comes into play in SC2
Heh, so you think they should balance the professional scene around how players in bronze-silver play? Man there's no good argument about what you're getting into.
On June 16 2012 02:52 Probe1 wrote: Heh, so you think they should balance the professional scene around how players in bronze-silver play? Man there's no good argument about what you're getting into.
While that is true, there are wayyyy less pro players than low level players. They need to make it fun and playable for low level players or the game just wont exist.
On June 15 2012 12:13 the_business_og wrote: conspiracy theory: blizzard management wanted the general public to get hyped for HOTS so they buffed zerg to get the lower level players to switch to Zerg and thus be more excited for HOTS
Balance doesn't mean anything for lower level players.
Another dumb argument... if something is easier/harder for a race as a whole, it affects every player on every level, denying that is just stupidity. The only thing that might not affect lower level players is very micro intensive units that are nerfed/buffed because lower level players cannot micro them anyways, but I cant think of any situation where that comes into play in SC2
SaSe once said in an interview "Imbalance rarely effect the very best players in the game, but gives an advantage to the worse players"
On June 16 2012 02:52 Probe1 wrote: Heh, so you think they should balance the professional scene around how players in bronze-silver play? Man there's no good argument about what you're getting into.
While that is true, there are wayyyy less pro players than low level players. They need to make it fun and playable for low level players or the game just wont exist.
the game will be playable for low level players pretty much no matter what, unless there's some absurdly overpowered all-in. i can beat silver players with my mouse and no strategy. it doesn't exactly take a lot of effort.
I want to find a team which can pay me a wage and guarantees my participation in overseas tournaments.
This is the best part of Genius' interview for me, I can't wait to see him internationally (did he used to travel to tournaments prior to his dip and resurgence?)
On June 15 2012 12:55 Highways wrote: The more I watch games the more I believe that MVP is correct.
I also agree with MKP that foreign Terrans aren't showing results because of the race they picked. I'm not saying it is impossible to win, but it's very hard to stay consistent.
Where did he say that?
heh even if mkp hadn't said that I agree with it. Terran requires more apm/multi tasking/micro then zerg/protoss. It's a lot harder to play terran at a high korean level due to having to do a lot of splitting, macro, micro and dropping. Terrans just harder to get super gosu with which koreans excell at multitasking/micro/macro and all that so yeah in general I do agree with mkp
I think it all comes down to practice time. The korean slave-like practice routine in BW were mandatory to show good results. Foreigners were invited to play BW but just about everybody but Idra found the conditions too demanding.
So have have the foreign mindset changed for sc2? I don't think so, just the mechanics of sc2 allow pretty good results and deep runs randomly in tournaments without having to do the slave-like practice schedule. If you had to train slave-labor routine just to compete, I don't think you would see many foreigners on the scene.
I think it is a big point to why there are no really good foreign Terrans but Thorzain. (my favorite) Some people drop other names but I always look at their results and see it was online, and they have no significant wins LAN-style if one if the foreign big 3 was there (Steph, Nan, Thor). If you made foreigners play 8 hours a day training, they would show good results with Terran. Until then, why waste so much time when you can do decently with z or p? I can't imagine the TL or EG house enforcing them to do 8 hours a day. I bet most foreigners play 4 hours semi-casually a day and just increase it before a tourney.
On June 16 2012 02:52 Probe1 wrote: Heh, so you think they should balance the professional scene around how players in bronze-silver play? Man there's no good argument about what you're getting into.
And theres the typical response... do you guys even think before you type this recycled garbage? No, I don't think it should be balanced around bronze-silver. I think they should do their best to balance the game AT ALL LEVELS, from bronze to pro. That is what I want, I dont want one of 3 races to only be really effective once you get to GM, that makes for a bland game, where Terran becomes non existant on the ladder... Oh wait, thats pretty much already happened. Enjoy your ZvZ ZvP PvP
On June 16 2012 03:26 FreudianTrip wrote: Terran Tears, so sweet. Go ladder with Protoss/Zerg if they're so imba instead of crying here.
MVP ladders as random. He beat Terrans like Bomber and MKP as Zerg vs. Terran even before the Zerg buff. No idea about his Protoss, though.
Even MC sometimes play Zerg to help his friends to practice for important matches. He did it with TheStC and the guy said MC's Zerg was like bettere than a lot of pro players who main Z.
I find it hilarious that people will still reference the early seasons of GSL, when nobody knew how to play, and use that as part of their argument for why Terran is fine the way it is.
Edit: Also funny are the people with 0 GSL titles telling the guy with 4 GSL titles that he shouldn't "whine about balance." If he doesn't have the credentials to speak about balance, then who does?
On June 15 2012 09:19 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Just last season, there were only 2 zergs in the Ro16. And zero in the Ro8. I find it difficult to believe that 2 months later, zerg is "too powerful."
MVP is an incredible player. But possibly full of shit.
This dude should get banned for being such a fool.
MAYBE BECAUSE THERE WAS A PATCH? Stop insulting best player in the world..
When people discredit MVP's balance statements because he plays terran, are they forgetting mvp is korean GM with all three races? He may competitively play terran but he could be a top player with any of the races. It's befuddling to me that people write off balance comments of the best player in the world...
The inject nerf is something that has been needed for a long time, but people are afraid to admit this because of the sheep mentality on the internet and fear of exlie.
On June 15 2012 12:13 the_business_og wrote: conspiracy theory: blizzard management wanted the general public to get hyped for HOTS so they buffed zerg to get the lower level players to switch to Zerg and thus be more excited for HOTS
Balance doesn't mean anything for lower level players.
wtf dude? Anyone in the world can make reactor hellions and any Zerg can just make 6 queens to shut down all the early harassment from ground to air.
On June 16 2012 07:15 cmcaneff5502 wrote: When people discredit MVP's balance statements because he plays terran, are they forgetting mvp is korean GM with all three races? He may competitively play terran but he could be a top player with any of the races. It's befuddling to me that people write off balance comments of the best player in the world...
A man will go very far to save his ego even if it means denying the truth. The best player in the world won't get them to admit it, but deep down inside they all know it.
The game should be balanced at all levels. After all, if it weren't for the casual players like myself and others, this game would not exist.
Even at the lower levels, imbalance effects the match ups. They might not know how to exploit those imbalances as much, but they still exist. A Protoss may be way behind a Terran in Bronze but can spam storm and win the game because of how ridiculous it can be just like they can in GM. I'm only in upper Gold, but my harassment has been shut down with the queen buff just like GM players as a Terran.
The only nerf that probably affected upper level players more so than anything else was the ghost nerf, as I rarely saw players in lower leagues use the snipe the way MVP did at BlizzCon 2011. It indirectly buffed Zergs at all levels because Brood Lords became even more powerful in the process.
On June 16 2012 05:28 hunts wrote: I don't think there's any way they would actually have the inject nerf go through, it would screw up zerg way too much.
Let's say its 5 seconds more before Larva spawn would that really screw Zergs up that much ? ( i'm not sure that would actually help though ) . I doubt that.
On June 16 2012 07:15 cmcaneff5502 wrote: When people discredit MVP's balance statements because he plays terran, are they forgetting mvp is korean GM with all three races? He may competitively play terran but he could be a top player with any of the races. It's befuddling to me that people write off balance comments of the best player in the world...
A man will go very far to save his ego even if it means denying the truth. The best player in the world won't get them to admit it, but deep down inside they all know it.
How dare you to even suggest that! Mvp would never lie about something like that. He is the most humble human being ever!
On June 15 2012 12:13 the_business_og wrote: conspiracy theory: blizzard management wanted the general public to get hyped for HOTS so they buffed zerg to get the lower level players to switch to Zerg and thus be more excited for HOTS
Balance doesn't mean anything for lower level players.
wtf dude? Anyone in the world can make reactor hellions and any Zerg can just make 6 queens to shut down all the early harassment from ground to air.
On June 16 2012 07:15 cmcaneff5502 wrote: When people discredit MVP's balance statements because he plays terran, are they forgetting mvp is korean GM with all three races? He may competitively play terran but he could be a top player with any of the races. It's befuddling to me that people write off balance comments of the best player in the world...
A man will go very far to save his ego even if it means denying the truth. The best player in the world won't get them to admit it, but deep down inside they all know it.
How dare you to even suggest that! Mvp would never lie about something like that. He is the most humble human being ever!
On June 15 2012 12:13 the_business_og wrote: conspiracy theory: blizzard management wanted the general public to get hyped for HOTS so they buffed zerg to get the lower level players to switch to Zerg and thus be more excited for HOTS
Balance doesn't mean anything for lower level players.
wtf dude? Anyone in the world can make reactor hellions and any Zerg can just make 6 queens to shut down all the early harassment from ground to air.
But NOBODY does that in Bronze to Silver.
im na diamond terran and tbh zerg still doesn't bother me much... i opt for cc first or 1 rax gasless fe into cloaked banshees/quick siege depending on what i read. personally, i feel the most imba thing in this game currently is the warp gate mechanic, especially at the lower levels. it indirectly favors toss late game who don't macro well and have large bank on 3, (god forbid)maybe 4basses. when the engagement occurs the toss is able to remax MUCH EASIER RELATIVE TO THEIR MACRO SKILL COMPARED TO TERRAN
When some people see the best player in the world talk about his ladder/practice experiences, they think he is "whining". Rofl. I think every one of these people were mind-gamed.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/531PB.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/z0tIW.jpg)
combat units a tiny bit, so that they are less about drone, drone, drone, and more aligned with BW 
