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On June 15 2012 02:19 Dandel Ion wrote:
Am I the only one that wants pros to finally stop balance-whining in every interview?
It's getting on my nerves, and honestly, if it was as bad as they pretend it is, they wouldn't have won in the first place.
MVP says he can't beat Zerg at all, and in the same interview says the plan was for him and Happy to meet in the winner's match. I conclude that he's lying somewhere, and since he beat Zerg today, i know which part is not true.
Genius almost (not quite, but close) worse with his supercool Larva ideas.
I know most people don't have a problem with that, else Idra wouldn't have a billion fans, but this shit is why I read very few interviews anymore.
And that's what grinds my gears.
He was specifically asked about Zerg , is he supposed to lie ? And he supposedly means better Zerg players than Line because lets be honest Zerg can't be made strong enough to make Line favored over MVP.
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On June 15 2012 02:18 usethis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote:
Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet. DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
Not 100% true, he did have a small duel of words with MC on twitter some months back, to which NesTea also participated. And DRG said something along the lines of if Toss does perfect FFs he can't lose, (was referring to the immortal push or some GW pushes heavy on sentries), and he said he struggled a lot at that time.
If I remember correctly that was also the GSL where NesTea and DRG meet in the RO16 and where the only 2 zergs left alive in the tournament, after some nice back and forth games NesTea kind of passed the mantle of best zerg in the world to DRG when he lost to him in that group.
Here is the link as well:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308373
So you're kind of wrong about DRG, if he senses something wrong about balance he will come forward and speak his mind, and he kind of did so recently saying that Terrans now have no chance after the queen buff.
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On June 15 2012 02:18 usethis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote:
Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet. DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance.
I'm stealing this quote for DRG's fanclub!
edit: lol
I take that back, he did QQ about forcefields to MC
:D
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On June 15 2012 01:55 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 00:59 FakeDeath wrote:On June 15 2012 00:55 Tachion wrote:
Does anyone know of a game where a korean pro has used this 6 queen build? Nestea's ro32 games perhaps? Watch MKP vs Yugioh Code A Game 2. Yugioh is the first one to popularized the 6 queen build in a televised match not Nestea. Nestea though uses the 6 queen build twice against TheStC. Basically, you do the 4 queen build and instead delay your gas to 50 foodish for the additional 2 queens(hence 6 queen). After that, plant quadruple gases and take a third or macro hatch and transition. Its a solid build around since 4 queen spreading creep and push back hellions back much easier and also defend banshee harass much easier. Though i feel kinda bad for terran though since i literally can drone up as much as i want with 4 queens as my defense and 2 for injecting hatches.Doesn't matter whether they go triple CC when i can drone as much as i want for 3 bases so easily. XD That seems really reminiscent of Spanishiwa's Ice Fisher from a year ago. Damn, seems like the guy was months ahead of the metagame then :p
Yes it is similar to Spanishiwa Ice Fisher which faded out of the meta game after time.
Though i wouldn't called it the ice fisher build since the builds varied quite a bit.
Now its back but more refined with better timings and better with the new queen buff.
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On June 15 2012 02:19 Dandel Ion wrote:
Am I the only one that wants pros to finally stop balance-whining in every interview?
It's getting on my nerves, and honestly, if it was as bad as they pretend it is, they wouldn't have won in the first place.
MVP says he can't beat Zerg at all, and in the same interview says the plan was for him and Happy to meet in the winner's match. I conclude that he's lying somewhere, and since he beat Zerg today, i know which part is not true.
Genius almost (not quite, but close) worse with his supercool Larva ideas.
I know most people don't have a problem with that, else Idra wouldn't have a billion fans, but this shit is why I read very few interviews anymore.
And that's what grinds my gears.
I agree with you mostly.
And I think its mostly the interviewers fault imo. They keep asking balance related questions. I'm fine with one or two.
But what the fuck happened to asking detailed questions. 'in set 2, you were in behind after his roach rush, what was going through your mind, how did you pull it back and win'. Break the game down, get into the winners head. Id much rather those questions and questions about 'outside the game' like their hobbies (best soccer player in house type of questions), etc.
I want to know whats in their mind. Not their perceived balance. Do that on SoTG or something
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When the second best TvZer says terran needs a revolutionist to come along, there's a problem. He can't solve the problem, he's relying on someone else, who will probably never show up. The best TvZer, MMA, has not shown many games against zerg at the moment so we don't know what his TvZ is like. One odd thing about his one game against Zerg since the patch is that he went mech.... the best bio-centric TvZer with all his crazy multitasking opted for a 1a mech army. What does that tell you?
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On June 15 2012 02:24 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 02:18 usethis2 wrote:On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote:
Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet. DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance. Not 100% true, he did have a small duel of words with MC on twitter some months back, to which NesTea also participated. And DRG said something along the lines of if Toss does perfect FFs he can't lose, (was referring to the immortal push or some GW pushes heavy on sentries), and he said he struggled a lot at that time. If I remember correctly that was also the GSL where NesTea and DRG meet in the RO16 and where the only 2 zergs left alive in the tournament, after some nice back and forth games NesTea kind of passed the mantle of best zerg in the world to DRG when he lost to him in that group. Here is the link as well: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308373So you're kind of wrong about DRG, if he senses something wrong about balance he will come forward and speak his mind, and he kind of did so recently saying that Terrans now have no chance after the queen buff.
Those friendly banters are hardly comparable to whiny interviews to public in daylight.
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On June 15 2012 02:24 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 02:18 usethis2 wrote:On June 15 2012 00:52 FakeDeath wrote:
Wow i guess DRG should win this season since terran can't figured out ways to deal with the new queen buff yet. DRG really distinguishes himself from all these whiny T/Z/P players. Even when Zs were dying left and right (including himself) he never complained about balance. Not 100% true, he did have a small duel of words with MC on twitter some months back, to which NesTea also participated. And DRG said something along the lines of if Toss does perfect FFs he can't lose, (was referring to the immortal push or some GW pushes heavy on sentries), and he said he struggled a lot at that time. If I remember correctly that was also the GSL where NesTea and DRG meet in the RO16 and where the only 2 zergs left alive in the tournament, after some nice back and forth games NesTea kind of passed the mantle of best zerg in the world to DRG when he lost to him in that group. Here is the link as well: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308373So you're kind of wrong about DRG, if he senses something wrong about balance he will come forward and speak his mind, and he kind of did so recently saying that Terrans now have no chance after the queen buff.
Though the immortal sentries push if done right with perfect FF is nearly impossible to stop unless you have an overwhelming army advantage.
DRG was probably complaining out of frustration after losing to it a couple of times but now he straight up destroy those
immortal/sentries pushes easily if you watched his recent games at MLG.
People will whine out of frustration and it is understandable.
Example,Ret loses to Squirtle or Parting in redbull lans to immortal/sentries and push and he claim that there was nothing
he could do to stop it.
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And I don't think MKP ever whines as much as MVP, either. At least not publicly.
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On June 15 2012 02:33 usethis2 wrote:
And I don't think MKP ever whines as much as MVP, either. At least not publicly.
that's because MKP never gets to be interviewed in the GSL because he gets eliminated early most of the time lol
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4713 Posts
I don't think they are whiny in interviews either, they are expressing their opinion on the current situation, and given the fact that these players are way, way more skilled then the majority of players out there, I believe their opinions need to be respected and considered, taken with a grain of salt of course, but still considered.
And also, a lot of times these players say something along the lines of "if the player controls/plays perfectly" they do try to take the human factor into account, MVP didn't consider himself a favorite but, he just outplayed Suhosin on too many fronts for the zerg buff to matter.
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Immvp is so whiny. The nerves he has for balance whining at the peak of terran dominance in that artosis interview leaves him with little credibility now.
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On June 15 2012 02:33 usethis2 wrote:
And I don't think MKP ever whines as much as MVP, either. At least not publicly.
If i recall,MKP was the one who stated he will show he can beat toss lategame and he never complain about toss lategame.
if i am not mistaken.
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On June 15 2012 01:54 Makura wrote:
Zerg seems strong now but if the reasoning has to do with their ability to hold all ins easily now... doesnt that mean terrans are just all in'ing too much when they shouldnt be?
They have to try to punish [not necessarily ending the game] the zerg for being greedy and droning because they'll be at a disadvantage going into the late game, economy wise and army composition wise. If harass and late game doesn't work, why shouldn't they resort to more all ins? Why play harder and longer just to lose?
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On June 14 2012 21:30 ohampatu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 21:29 HaXXspetten wrote:
Inject nerfs? Hadn't thought about that one, wonder how that would affect the gameplay, seems pretty big imo. It could help with the 3 hatch 12 min max style that is working right nowm but it wont affect the lategame gameplay i think. infestor/brood will still give toss issues. i dont see it going through
At high level play protosses have gotten very good at defending vs it. It used to work alot (like every new build that is good) but doesn't anymore. No point in nerfing something that has been figured out.
If zerg got an inject nerf omg lol that would be terrible >>.
Also very surprised at genius saying zerg op when zvp has been favoring protoss the last 3 months and still is. I can understand mvp complaining (although I don't think it's as bad as he thinks but I do agree that zvt is zerg favored for the moment).
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There is a problem if even MVP thinks Zerg is, in his opinion, kind of overpowered. I never understood why Blizzard went from 3 to 5 range queens instead of just 4 to see how it is like, then adjust if needed.
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I don't understand why people are complaining about them being "whiny". Sure, they have their opinions on balance. There's not going to say "the game is always completely balanced". And they don't bring those up themselves. The interviewer asked specifically about the zerg buff to each of them. They'll just look dumb saying that the buff did nothing because it did do a lot. They are the top players of the world for sure, and they play a heck more than most of us do against opponents of the same caliber. I honestly think that the professionals' inputs are what's going to make the game better, so I'd rather have them discuss it publicly (although I do agree that it should be done somewhere other than a post-game interview -.-)
Interesting ideas presented by both of them, although the zerg larvae nerf sounds a little too absurd, although it won't be too hard to get around it by creating more macro hatches (I think Genius wanted to point out how zerg doesn't really need too many production buildings). It was done in broodwar, so it's not impossible at all, but it might be interesting to see how it'll affect the game.
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On June 15 2012 02:19 Dandel Ion wrote:
Am I the only one that wants pros to finally stop balance-whining in every interview?
It's getting on my nerves, and honestly, if it was as bad as they pretend it is, they wouldn't have won in the first place.
MVP says he can't beat Zerg at all, and in the same interview says the plan was for him and Happy to meet in the winner's match. I conclude that he's lying somewhere, and since he beat Zerg today, i know which part is not true.
Genius almost (not quite, but close) worse with his supercool Larva ideas.
I know most people don't have a problem with that, else Idra wouldn't have a billion fans, but this shit is why I read very few interviews anymore.
And that's what grinds my gears.
Do you even know why he picked Line???? Line is a weak zerg who is overly aggressive and doesn't use his race to his advantage. MVP knew he had a good chance of beating Line but that doesn't mean he didn't have problems against a more competent zerg during practice.
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On June 15 2012 02:21 ohampatu wrote:
MVP said if his opponents play perfectly, they win. Thats true for most people. He never said terran couldn't win if played perfectly.
No, he said if a Terran and a Zerg of equal skill play, it is impossible for the Terran to win. What are you reading?
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Lol even mvp can't figure out tvz. Brb killing myself
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EPT
