EPTReferencing pro's doens't mean anything as they aren't the only people playing this game. And every pro of any race will tell you a completely different story.
Season 8 Zerg Map Vetoes - Page 4
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Louis8k8
Canada285 Posts
Referencing pro's doens't mean anything as they aren't the only people playing this game. And every pro of any race will tell you a completely different story. | ||
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Mr Showtime
United States1353 Posts
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Keyz1
Canada94 Posts
It's only ladder. | ||
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ailouros
United States193 Posts
1. Tal'Darim 2. Entombed 3. Shakurus/Cloud Kingdom I'd pick Shakurus to veto over Cloud just because it's an old map and the center but I am not a huge fan of Cloud either unless I'm P. | ||
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SyDe
France355 Posts
Even though I dislike TDA vs X and Antiga vs T, you still have to play those maps in tournaments/clan wars so I won't veto them  . | ||
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Schashlik
Germany7 Posts
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FlukyS
Ireland485 Posts
And then you get to the easily secured tank position to get a very fast third for terran which makes me just cringe at the thought of playing ZvT on that map. My first game actually ran into a terran at close positions and it was pretty impossible to punish him and he more or less made tank marine and it took me teching really heavy to win and just accepting the fact that I was never going to get a great eco to get up that late game. I won but just barely and the other dude barely broke a sweat it seemed like he just turtled into the third and then went for the kill. So for all those reasons im going to immediately want to burn this map with fire. (side note I probably hate entombed valley more but im going to veto both because I really don't think they are very fair.) | ||
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Firlefanz
Germany245 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:36 Keyz1 wrote: I play with no vetos so that every game is unique and I can develop different skillsets for different situations and maps, whether it's in my favor or not. It's good practice. It's only ladder. That is also true for me. The last map i used a veto on was Delta-Quadrant. Sometimes i think about vetoing Entombed (close spawn is really hard - especially in ZvT), but then i tell myself that it's just ladder... | ||
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Pros
219 Posts
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Icarox
Sweden78 Posts
I just unvetoed all maps to gain a more clear understanding of the game, and it's funny how I manage to get matched up with cross-race on those specific maps the three first games. :D | ||
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Catatafish
75 Posts
On June 13 2012 05:45 Pros wrote: i love these threads because i veto all the most popular maps because i dont like zvz :D Cool, that doesn't work though. You get matched up and then the map is selected afterwards. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:35 Mr Showtime wrote: You should have a "none" option. I would only veto Entombed and TDA Those people don't have to participate in the poll. I definitely don't care to see the number of people who will blindly play on terrible maps. People used to like Xel'Naga Caverns, too. I made the thread to generate discussion on the playability of each map in the pool and to get a good idea of what maps I will veto. I'm certainly willing to read posts about why people will not veto certain maps or why they like certain unpopular maps, but the polls are really the least important part of this thread. The main reason I veto maps is when they severely limit the strategies I can use, or make it extremely easy for other players to do whatever they want and hit strong timings without me being able to have adequate defense or aggressive potential myself. For example, on Tal'Darim, if you do opt to break the rocks, the third base still sucks for zerg because the chokes make any attack have a concave and they can easily abuse FF/blink/colo/tanks/fungal/etc. Notice how Cloud Kingdom has features that let protoss or terran easily take a third and can make attacks very strong due to chokes. It doesn't get vetoed because zerg is not restricted by rocks and there are multiple attack paths that make it possible to be aggressive somewhat. | ||
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usNEUX
United States76 Posts
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BoxingKangaroo
Japan955 Posts
On June 13 2012 05:45 Pros wrote: i love these threads because i veto all the most popular maps because i dont like zvz :D Doesn't work. Your opponent is chosen before maps. | ||
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Schashlik
Germany7 Posts
On June 13 2012 07:43 BoxingKangaroo wrote: Doesn't work. Your opponent is chosen before maps. If a Zerg Veto's Antiga Shipyard (for example) and not Shakuras (just examples), it should be more likely to not get matched against Zergs if you Veto Shakuras and not Antiga Shipyard right? Since there are map preferations for any race, it should theoretically work. But of course, I don't know to what extent. | ||
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sertman
United States540 Posts
On June 13 2012 02:21 blade55555 wrote: TDA is a bad zvp map lol. It favors toss in tournaments anyway. The fact toss can forge fe and be on even bases as the zerg for a long time makes it hard for zerg and taking a far away third is to dangerous. From what I have read/heard to every pro zerg hates taldarim to (any coincidence that when drg got it he 6 pools? Same with nestea? they always seem to 6 pool on that map). For the OP, entombed, TDA and shakuras plateau are my veto's. All bad maps that I hate playing on :D Yeah kind of reminds me of when xelnaga used to be a good zerg map lolol. Good times I find myself wondering if that DRG 6 pool had anything to do with the condemned rocks removal. Browder hearing Artosis say "well he doesn't really have many other options on this map because of the rocks on the third" might have softened him a bit on it | ||
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TranceKuja
United States154 Posts
On June 13 2012 02:07 Imperium11 wrote: I never thought I'd live to see the day when Taldarim was Zerg's first choice veto. Seems like just yesterday that Zergs were jumping for joy at the sight of it. The map is bad for zvp because of the rocks(which were added by Blizzard) at the 3rd. It's bad for zvt because of the natural with the big neon "seige me" sign. | ||
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6xFPCs
United States412 Posts
On June 13 2012 05:42 Firlefanz wrote: That is also true for me. The last map i used a veto on was Delta-Quadrant. Sometimes i think about vetoing Entombed (close spawn is really hard - especially in ZvT), but then i tell myself that it's just ladder... I started trying this "no veto" thing towards the end of season 7, but I'm not enjoying it too much. I had some interesting experiences on Shakuras, Entombed, and TDA (my normal vetoes), but most of those interesting moments were not pleasant ones. It seems that on those maps, where certain zerg builds/approaches are expected (split map zvt on shakuras, three base tech zvp on entombed, two base zvp on TDA), many opponents go for a timing or all-in to exploit that expectation, and i have a tough time recognizing it. part of it is not having an extra overlord in position should the first sacrificial overlord get shut down, i think, but just the fact that we're playing from a bad position in terms of options just irks me, win or lose. I'll likely re-veto shakuras, i don't think there's anything new to say there. entombed is a map i want to like, but the narrow ramp to the main and dual ramps to the natural-third seem to be perfect for T and P: the narrow helping to stop runbys (relatively minor issue), and the dual ramps being easy to defend--unless you're zerg and need spines to hold. this is without even talking about close position issues, and north-south positions where a tank or colossus atop the blocked midway base gives your opponent a great midway control point, shortening the distances even further. any insights on how to play zvt/zvp there (in terms of map tactics more than general strategy) would be appreciated. i probably won't re-veto it. TDA I want to like as well, and do like when games go extra-long; i feel like no other map has that post-endgame expo "game" where you are trying to get random expos up while shutting down the opponent's, sending small forces out to harass, etc. at that point, TDA really feels like it punishes players who give up positions, don't retake towers, and a-move whole armies against small threats, and I like that. The problem is--and let me add that everything from here to the end of this paragraph is not new or news at all--Those Rocks at the Third generally prevent the game from getting that far. I have tried expanding to the "fourth" with the random half-wall of grass out front, both the one below the main and the one nearer the third, and have had some success (the latter tends to be a better choice unless that puts it right under the opponent's main). But on top of the difficulty securing the third, tank/colossus abuse of the natural gets crazy sometimes. Creep spread is a decent solution for the first push or two, and the towers help spot pushes before they get there, but the exposed nature of the natural is enough to lose me games outright (I'm sure you all understand). It's so efficient to just plop two tanks at the bottom and ferry marines up and down as needed. a decent solution seems to be having a spore and two spines there waiting, but then they shimmy over to the ramp and it's now just a normal strength marine-tank army--but now you're down three drones and a good chunk of money. yeah, just writing this makes me want to go veto it. tl;dr No vetoes right now, but I think bad zerg maps are especially bad because not only do you get pushed into certain choices, those choices are predictable and, as a result, often blindly countered. Will likely re-veto shakuras and TDA, but give entombed another chance. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On June 13 2012 17:18 Schashlik wrote: If a Zerg Veto's Antiga Shipyard (for example) and not Shakuras (just examples), it should be more likely to not get matched against Zergs if you Veto Shakuras and not Antiga Shipyard right? Since there are map preferations for any race, it should theoretically work. But of course, I don't know to what extent. Reread the post you quoted. Your veto choices have nothing to do with the opponents you are pitted against. After an opponent is found, a map that you two both don't have vetoed is then chosen. | ||
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
2). Entombed - I may unveto this map in the coming weeks. Originally I veto'd it because I could not, for the life of me, beat a protoss when I clearly had superior macro. In one game I had a 90 supply lead when I moved in. It was so easily defended that I didn't even kill all the units. After dying to a death ball a la the easy-to-take third I rage quit and veto'd it immediately. My game has developed a lot more since I was trying to max on roach/hydra with 2/2 at 13 minutes (even the 12 minute roach/ling max). Now that I'm working through late game transitions I want to play against late game toss. Most ZvP's are against 2 base all-ins, so it would be nice to have a map back that toss consider great for late game. 3). Condemned Ridge - Wow, this map is HUGE! I played a ZvT yesterday against a random and concluded that I hated the map. Since my opponent was random he wasn't as good as the normal high plat/diamond terran, but if he was I wouldn't have stood a chance. The cliffs over the third adds more area that needs to be defended against drops, especially if they get a drop down and then defend the ramp. Multiprong aggression was also hard to deal with since supporting units at the spawn point had to run so far. Finally the myriad of chokes was heaven for a siege line and I only won the game at the grace of my opponent clumping bio for fungals. Other parts of my macro need a lot more work, so defending drop play has hit the backburner. I want to focus on that a while, so I don't see me taking this map off veto this season. | ||
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