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On June 10 2012 03:50 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:39 Wildmoon wrote:
Hey guys just calm the fuck down. This is not final. I am terran too. If Terran is ridiculuosly UP in HotS then Blizz will buff it but for now just wait and see. Most Terran players aren't whining about balance. We are saying that with the new units each race is getting Zerg and Protoss both look like more exciting races. Terran looks like it's going to be forced to go basically pure mech in HoTS. Mech wasn't good in WoL and it doesn't look much better in HoTS. It looks like Blizzard was like "oh crap mech sucks, lets give them this mine thats clearly op to compensate." It's just not compelling.
Wings of Liberty was your game to be excited about, and practically all of your units that existed in WoL still exist. I'm not expecting a giant change for zerg in Legacy of the Void.
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On June 10 2012 03:50 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:39 Wildmoon wrote:
Hey guys just calm the fuck down. This is not final. I am terran too. If Terran is ridiculuosly UP in HotS then Blizz will buff it but for now just wait and see. Most Terran players aren't whining about balance. We are saying that with the new units each race is getting Zerg and Protoss both look like more exciting races. Terran looks like it's going to be forced to go basically pure mech in HoTS. Mech wasn't good in WoL and it doesn't look much better in HoTS. It looks like Blizzard was like "oh crap mech sucks, lets give them this mine thats clearly op to compensate." It's just not compelling.
Except most people here are whining about HOTS balance lol.
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One quick question battle helions don't have bonus damage to light but improved damage overall right ? Which mean a runbys with helions changing into battle form could actually do something other than killining workers ? I mean they killing worker stuff rarely works later on so that might give Helions more potential later on.
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On June 10 2012 03:31 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:29 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
I thought the tempest would have been cooler 22 range is ridiculous would rather have 9 range and decent DPS. Everything else looks exciting Yes, 9 range, so it can fit right in with the death ball 0_o I will take a unit that does something totally different.
Totally different as in dies to anything that can reach it, Shoots slower than siege tanks and has less splash, Also is only support for your death ball.
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On June 10 2012 03:51 emc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:50 Solo Terran wrote:On June 10 2012 03:39 Wildmoon wrote:
Hey guys just calm the fuck down. This is not final. I am terran too. If Terran is ridiculuosly UP in HotS then Blizz will buff it but for now just wait and see. Most Terran players aren't whining about balance. We are saying that with the new units each race is getting Zerg and Protoss both look like more exciting races. Terran looks like it's going to be forced to go basically pure mech in HoTS. Mech wasn't good in WoL and it doesn't look much better in HoTS. It looks like Blizzard was like "oh crap mech sucks, lets give them this mine thats clearly op to compensate." It's just not compelling. Wings of Liberty was your game to be excited about, and practically all of your units that existed in WoL still exist. I'm not expecting a giant change for zerg in Legacy of the Void.
By that logic protoss shouldn't have got a big change in HOTS either right?
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On June 10 2012 03:39 mewbert wrote:
fucking depressing, now to switch to zerg or quit the game
I've seen a lot of these type of posts and I can't fault anyone for their opinions. Although of course Blizzard will balance test, I'm not excited about HoTs.
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On June 10 2012 03:50 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:39 Wildmoon wrote:
Hey guys just calm the fuck down. This is not final. I am terran too. If Terran is ridiculuosly UP in HotS then Blizz will buff it but for now just wait and see. Most Terran players aren't whining about balance. We are saying that with the new units each race is getting Zerg and Protoss both look like more exciting races. Terran looks like it's going to be forced to go basically pure mech in HoTS. Mech wasn't good in WoL and it doesn't look much better in HoTS. It looks like Blizzard was like "oh crap mech sucks, lets give them this mine thats clearly op to compensate." It's just not compelling.
We don't even know how it will turn out in the end. What you think is not interesting may turn out the be the interesting thing. I think people just complain too much without enough information.
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On June 10 2012 03:52 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:31 Plansix wrote:On June 10 2012 03:29 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
I thought the tempest would have been cooler 22 range is ridiculous would rather have 9 range and decent DPS. Everything else looks exciting Yes, 9 range, so it can fit right in with the death ball 0_o I will take a unit that does something totally different. Totally different as in dies to anything that can reach it, Shoots slower than siege tanks and has less splash, Also is only support for your death ball.
Isn't it no splash?
I'm not sold on the viability of the tempest. 22 range is fine and dandy but it feels so out of place. Like they gave protoss broodlords that we'll probably rarely tech to.
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On June 10 2012 03:53 Firesilver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:51 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 03:50 Solo Terran wrote:On June 10 2012 03:39 Wildmoon wrote:
Hey guys just calm the fuck down. This is not final. I am terran too. If Terran is ridiculuosly UP in HotS then Blizz will buff it but for now just wait and see. Most Terran players aren't whining about balance. We are saying that with the new units each race is getting Zerg and Protoss both look like more exciting races. Terran looks like it's going to be forced to go basically pure mech in HoTS. Mech wasn't good in WoL and it doesn't look much better in HoTS. It looks like Blizzard was like "oh crap mech sucks, lets give them this mine thats clearly op to compensate." It's just not compelling. Wings of Liberty was your game to be excited about, and practically all of your units that existed in WoL still exist. I'm not expecting a giant change for zerg in Legacy of the Void. By that logic protoss shouldn't have got a big change in HOTS either right?
protoss is a mess in WoL though, I think they are pretty broken but thats just my opinion, they needed the changes to be honest. Terran really doesn't have any gaps in their viability, its a major problem for blizzard because they've admitted that terran is too well rounded. I imagine things will be just fine by time of release, thats what a beta is for.
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On June 10 2012 03:53 Firesilver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:51 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 03:50 Solo Terran wrote:On June 10 2012 03:39 Wildmoon wrote:
Hey guys just calm the fuck down. This is not final. I am terran too. If Terran is ridiculuosly UP in HotS then Blizz will buff it but for now just wait and see. Most Terran players aren't whining about balance. We are saying that with the new units each race is getting Zerg and Protoss both look like more exciting races. Terran looks like it's going to be forced to go basically pure mech in HoTS. Mech wasn't good in WoL and it doesn't look much better in HoTS. It looks like Blizzard was like "oh crap mech sucks, lets give them this mine thats clearly op to compensate." It's just not compelling. Wings of Liberty was your game to be excited about, and practically all of your units that existed in WoL still exist. I'm not expecting a giant change for zerg in Legacy of the Void. By that logic protoss shouldn't have got a big change in HOTS either right?
Yeah that logic doesn't really hold water. I'm not even sure how much each of these releases will correlate to new units for that race.
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On June 10 2012 03:54 Stanlot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:52 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:On June 10 2012 03:31 Plansix wrote:On June 10 2012 03:29 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
I thought the tempest would have been cooler 22 range is ridiculous would rather have 9 range and decent DPS. Everything else looks exciting Yes, 9 range, so it can fit right in with the death ball 0_o I will take a unit that does something totally different. Totally different as in dies to anything that can reach it, Shoots slower than siege tanks and has less splash, Also is only support for your death ball. Isn't it no splash? I'm not sold on the viability of the tempest. 22 range is fine and dandy but it feels so out of place. Like they gave protoss broodlords that we'll probably rarely tech to.
I recall that the air attack is splash but the ground isn't. Could be wrong though.
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On June 10 2012 03:53 Firesilver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:51 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 03:50 Solo Terran wrote:On June 10 2012 03:39 Wildmoon wrote:
Hey guys just calm the fuck down. This is not final. I am terran too. If Terran is ridiculuosly UP in HotS then Blizz will buff it but for now just wait and see. Most Terran players aren't whining about balance. We are saying that with the new units each race is getting Zerg and Protoss both look like more exciting races. Terran looks like it's going to be forced to go basically pure mech in HoTS. Mech wasn't good in WoL and it doesn't look much better in HoTS. It looks like Blizzard was like "oh crap mech sucks, lets give them this mine thats clearly op to compensate." It's just not compelling. Wings of Liberty was your game to be excited about, and practically all of your units that existed in WoL still exist. I'm not expecting a giant change for zerg in Legacy of the Void. By that logic protoss shouldn't have got a big change in HOTS either right?
And there isn't that much of a change, tempest is hardly going to be used some stargate play from the oracle maybe and the mothership core for a early boost, otherwise its going to be the same tactics for toss.
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On June 10 2012 03:46 emc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:44 Esk23 wrote:On June 10 2012 03:42 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 03:41 Snowbear wrote:On June 10 2012 03:39 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 03:36 Snowbear wrote:On June 10 2012 03:32 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 03:29 Esk23 wrote:
Anyone defending Terran thinking it's good from what you've seen in the HotS video need to get your heads checked, seriously. Mech will simply not work with Ultra charge and that Viper Abduct ability. Imagine Broodlord/infestor/mass queen how that's already unbeatable for Terran and combine that with Vipers lololol. Bio will be bad too, imagine how infestor/viper is ganna be, Ultra charge will rape bio like nothing. Game is ganna take some serious patches to balance out. Terran is already terrible right now in WoL. you still have ghosts to emp queens/vipers, you have vikings to counter anything but mutas, you still have ravens to use PDD and buy you time. Yea I think ultras will be strong, but if there is a will there is a way, giving up isn't an answer. Ghosts don't get to the infestors thx to the broodlings + thx to the small emp radius you can't emp them all, corruptors + fungal own vikings, ravens pdd blocks only corruptor shots. pdd blocks corrupters, gives your vikings more time to snipe BLs, which gives you more room to use your ghosts. If terran utilizes ALL their units just like you claim Zerg will ALWAYS utilize all of their units, then there will be quite a micro battle, sounds like fun to me. It's funny that every terran QQ keeps mentioning vipers/infestors/bls/ultras/queens, practically every strong unit we have and yet the terran doesn't think to use all their tools. No: pdd blocks corruptors, you fly your vikings forward to shoot at the BLs, they get fungalled, PDD is dead, corruptors finnish it. You really don't play this game at all, I am 100% sure about this. yea I don't play HotS, I wish I could, but unfortunately it's not out yet :S When zerg has enough corrupters PPD are basically worthless, they don't last long enough. You don't need HotS to know this if you play Terran in WoL. so all zergs will have corrupters, infestors, vipers, bls.. sounds like a lot of gas. Yea I know PDD isn't great in WoL but in HotS? It could be strong if the zerg spends too much on vipers instead or has too much supply tied up in other units. Thing is, I can't get specific on unit numbers and compositions because... it's not possible. All I can do is generalize and give ideas to terrans who think their race is UP. Until we get the beta and can test this shit, all we're doing is circle jerking. yea let me go to the HotS beta unit tester and put in 20 corrupters, 10 BLs, 5 vipers and 5 infestors vs an equal costing terran army and I will get back to you... Or were the numbers you were thinking of different than mine? I don't fucking know, specific numbers isn't important at all right now, just ideas which I'm trying to give.
Just rofl. I really don't think you watch or play much SC2. Zerg can get to the late game and get the army comp they want almost every game now, or most games. It's not that hard. Zerg macro is easy and very powerful, Zerg will always out resource/out macro Terran it's in their design. You arguing cost vs cost doesn't make any sense. There is no army combination Terran can get that beats Broodlord/corrupter/queen/infestor. Ravens would be an answer but fungle out ranges HSM which is the main problem. Ghosts aren't effective enough, EMP radius is too small and queen/infestor hit box is big. Broodlord range helps keep ghosts from EMPing effectively as well.
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On June 10 2012 03:51 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:46 Snowbear wrote:On June 10 2012 03:42 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 03:41 Snowbear wrote:On June 10 2012 03:39 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 03:36 Snowbear wrote:On June 10 2012 03:32 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 03:29 Esk23 wrote:
Anyone defending Terran thinking it's good from what you've seen in the HotS video need to get your heads checked, seriously. Mech will simply not work with Ultra charge and that Viper Abduct ability. Imagine Broodlord/infestor/mass queen how that's already unbeatable for Terran and combine that with Vipers lololol. Bio will be bad too, imagine how infestor/viper is ganna be, Ultra charge will rape bio like nothing. Game is ganna take some serious patches to balance out. Terran is already terrible right now in WoL. you still have ghosts to emp queens/vipers, you have vikings to counter anything but mutas, you still have ravens to use PDD and buy you time. Yea I think ultras will be strong, but if there is a will there is a way, giving up isn't an answer. Ghosts don't get to the infestors thx to the broodlings + thx to the small emp radius you can't emp them all, corruptors + fungal own vikings, ravens pdd blocks only corruptor shots. pdd blocks corrupters, gives your vikings more time to snipe BLs, which gives you more room to use your ghosts. If terran utilizes ALL their units just like you claim Zerg will ALWAYS utilize all of their units, then there will be quite a micro battle, sounds like fun to me. It's funny that every terran QQ keeps mentioning vipers/infestors/bls/ultras/queens, practically every strong unit we have and yet the terran doesn't think to use all their tools. No: pdd blocks corruptors, you fly your vikings forward to shoot at the BLs, they get fungalled, PDD is dead, corruptors finnish it. You really don't play this game at all, I am 100% sure about this. yea I don't play HotS, I wish I could, but unfortunately it's not out yet :S You are telling us how everything will be fine in HOTS, while the zerg gets more options to make his BL infestor composition stronger, and while terrans are ALREADY having huge troubles in WOL with this composition. Let me explain it more simple: - very cost efficiënt + more options = MORE cost efficiënt I HOPE that blizzard changes alot about terran in HOTS, but if the game was released today, terrans would die. You realize how much gas is right? If you are worried about swarmhost/infestor/viper/bl/corruptor lol zerg will almost never get that composition. That's so much gas, 150 for an infestor, 200 for viper, 200 for swarm host and the 150 for bl. You act like zerg gets infinite gas when zerg is always gas starved lol. People need to wait until hots till they say terran is underpowered like jesus...
I understand you want to protect your race
But withthe kind of map control offered by the new queen and swarm host. As well a the new options given to zerg something of that magnitude is completely feasible
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What I'm really disappointed in is the fact that the raven has received absolutely zero attention from blizzard. PDD is nice of course, but the other abilities seriously need some work or to be scraped all together. Just compare the Raven to the new viper and you see how much it sucks in comparison.
I'm also really disappointed that they took out reaper speed and made the new "combat drugs" an upgrade. This just makes the reaper even more useless than before. Blizzard clearly has no idea what they are thinking when it comes to the reaper and are just experimenting with random ideas to keep it in the game.
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On June 10 2012 03:56 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:46 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 03:44 Esk23 wrote:On June 10 2012 03:42 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 03:41 Snowbear wrote:On June 10 2012 03:39 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 03:36 Snowbear wrote:On June 10 2012 03:32 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 03:29 Esk23 wrote:
Anyone defending Terran thinking it's good from what you've seen in the HotS video need to get your heads checked, seriously. Mech will simply not work with Ultra charge and that Viper Abduct ability. Imagine Broodlord/infestor/mass queen how that's already unbeatable for Terran and combine that with Vipers lololol. Bio will be bad too, imagine how infestor/viper is ganna be, Ultra charge will rape bio like nothing. Game is ganna take some serious patches to balance out. Terran is already terrible right now in WoL. you still have ghosts to emp queens/vipers, you have vikings to counter anything but mutas, you still have ravens to use PDD and buy you time. Yea I think ultras will be strong, but if there is a will there is a way, giving up isn't an answer. Ghosts don't get to the infestors thx to the broodlings + thx to the small emp radius you can't emp them all, corruptors + fungal own vikings, ravens pdd blocks only corruptor shots. pdd blocks corrupters, gives your vikings more time to snipe BLs, which gives you more room to use your ghosts. If terran utilizes ALL their units just like you claim Zerg will ALWAYS utilize all of their units, then there will be quite a micro battle, sounds like fun to me. It's funny that every terran QQ keeps mentioning vipers/infestors/bls/ultras/queens, practically every strong unit we have and yet the terran doesn't think to use all their tools. No: pdd blocks corruptors, you fly your vikings forward to shoot at the BLs, they get fungalled, PDD is dead, corruptors finnish it. You really don't play this game at all, I am 100% sure about this. yea I don't play HotS, I wish I could, but unfortunately it's not out yet :S When zerg has enough corrupters PPD are basically worthless, they don't last long enough. You don't need HotS to know this if you play Terran in WoL. so all zergs will have corrupters, infestors, vipers, bls.. sounds like a lot of gas. Yea I know PDD isn't great in WoL but in HotS? It could be strong if the zerg spends too much on vipers instead or has too much supply tied up in other units. Thing is, I can't get specific on unit numbers and compositions because... it's not possible. All I can do is generalize and give ideas to terrans who think their race is UP. Until we get the beta and can test this shit, all we're doing is circle jerking. yea let me go to the HotS beta unit tester and put in 20 corrupters, 10 BLs, 5 vipers and 5 infestors vs an equal costing terran army and I will get back to you... Or were the numbers you were thinking of different than mine? I don't fucking know, specific numbers isn't important at all right now, just ideas which I'm trying to give. Just rofl. I really don't think you watch or play much SC2. Zerg can get to the late game and get the army comp they want almost every game now, or most games. It's not that hard. Zerg macro is easy and very powerful, Zerg will always out resource/out macro Terran it's in their design. You arguing cost vs cost doesn't make any sense. There is no army combination Terran can get that beats Broodlord/corrupter/queen/infestor. Ravens would be an answer but fungle out ranges HSM which is the main problem. Ghosts aren't effective enough, EMP radius is too small and queen/infestor hit box is big. Broodlord range helps keep ghosts from EMPing effectively as well.
then I guess every pro will just give up in TvZ or all-in then? If blizzard thinks it's a problem they will fix it, I have faith. Can they really get an army composition like that for free? you act as if zergs that get to that comp have no skill and it's easy to do.
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On June 10 2012 03:54 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:50 Solo Terran wrote:On June 10 2012 03:39 Wildmoon wrote:
Hey guys just calm the fuck down. This is not final. I am terran too. If Terran is ridiculuosly UP in HotS then Blizz will buff it but for now just wait and see. Most Terran players aren't whining about balance. We are saying that with the new units each race is getting Zerg and Protoss both look like more exciting races. Terran looks like it's going to be forced to go basically pure mech in HoTS. Mech wasn't good in WoL and it doesn't look much better in HoTS. It looks like Blizzard was like "oh crap mech sucks, lets give them this mine thats clearly op to compensate." It's just not compelling. We don't even know how it will turn out in the end. What you think is not interesting may turn out the be the interesting thing. I think people just complain too much without enough information. I know but just thinking about things like warp prisms warping shit in your expansions killing your bases/ production, waiting for your slow mech army to walk over and then have them recall everything back home just does not sound fun. I know recall might get taken out blah blah but none of the units in HoTS Terran is getting any answers.
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On June 10 2012 03:52 s3rp wrote:
One quick question battle helions don't have bonus damage to light but improved damage overall right ? Which mean a runbys with helions changing into battle form could actually do something other than killining workers ? I mean they killing worker stuff rarely works later on so that might give Helions more potential later on.
Yeah. As far as I can tell, it seems Blizzard is trying to mold Terran into an aggressive early-game, hit-and-run race. They don't help us with late game, which is what we have wanted for so long. (Improved Raven, BC, viability of mech). But instead they give reaper regen and speed w/o factory and the potential for hellion runbys into potential attacks.
Even with these changes, I foresee that Terran will be weak and gimmicky. Who wants to play a race like that, which relies on chance and guerrilla tactics? I didn't sign up for Terran to play like this. I signed up for the precise nature of Terran. Au revioir old Terran. You were the best race. I will miss you when I play Protoss in HotS.
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On June 10 2012 03:55 Firesilver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:54 Stanlot wrote:On June 10 2012 03:52 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:On June 10 2012 03:31 Plansix wrote:On June 10 2012 03:29 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
I thought the tempest would have been cooler 22 range is ridiculous would rather have 9 range and decent DPS. Everything else looks exciting Yes, 9 range, so it can fit right in with the death ball 0_o I will take a unit that does something totally different. Totally different as in dies to anything that can reach it, Shoots slower than siege tanks and has less splash, Also is only support for your death ball. Isn't it no I'm not sold on the viability of the tempest. 22 range is fine and dandy but it feels so out of place. Like they gave protoss broodlords that we'll probably rarely tech to. I recall that the air attack is splash but the ground isn't. Could be wrong though.
After Phoenix range was introduced, they killed tempest splash.
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On June 10 2012 03:54 Stanlot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:52 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:On June 10 2012 03:31 Plansix wrote:On June 10 2012 03:29 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
I thought the tempest would have been cooler 22 range is ridiculous would rather have 9 range and decent DPS. Everything else looks exciting Yes, 9 range, so it can fit right in with the death ball 0_o I will take a unit that does something totally different. Totally different as in dies to anything that can reach it, Shoots slower than siege tanks and has less splash, Also is only support for your death ball. Isn't it no splash? I'm not sold on the viability of the tempest. 22 range is fine and dandy but it feels so out of place. Like they gave protoss broodlords that we'll probably rarely tech to.
Single target for ground. My problem is the unit kind of sucks. Cost wise it's almost as expensive as the mothership and is really lacking dps. Since every Protoss that isn't 2 base all in will be getting stargates for the Oracle, Would be nice to have a decent t3 air transition.
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EPT
