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On June 10 2012 02:36 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:28 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:25 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 10 2012 02:19 Firesilver wrote:On June 10 2012 02:17 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 02:15 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Are mutas even scary with the new mine? Widow 1-hit ko mutas. Way better than Turrets. What if a muta with a mine kamikazes itself into your workers/ army? Someone said earlier in this thread it doesn't do friendly damage IIRC. this seems stupid to me. Nukes inflict friendly damage, as do seeker missiles. Why implement a random inconsistency? urgh.. I think it's to prevent blobs of roaches just to clear out minefields then suicide into the terran army. Or blobs of overlords picking up the mines and decimating all medivacs/vikings. Or when mutas magic box a mech army and get a few mines attached to them, they won't decimate the vikings while cleaning up the thors. I think it's fair, the mine would be too big of a risk if it caused friendly fire. I think friendly fire would only work if the mine exploded immediately upon contact. Yeah, I think as long as it has a timer, especially a ten second timer (that's forever in SC2 battles), friendly fire just wouldn't make sense. They would become your own worst enemy of creating suicide bomber for the other player to send at you. You'd probably be better off latching the mines to your own stimmed marauders and sending them forward. They really need to stop beating around the bush and just acknowledge that these aren't new ideas, just complicated iterations of a far simpler and effective ability. It just seems their unit designs need to go through such crazy contortions just to recreate the same unit interactions/ roles, but be 'completely new.' Just embrace what they are already doing.
Couldn't agree more. There was an interview where they asked about it looking like a lot of the new ideas are from broodwar, and it was denied like they had no idea what the interviewer was talking about. The weirdest thing to me is the consume ability. To regain energy instead of consuming a unit, you need to consume health from a building to regen energy? It just seems really odd and only there to be different. They brought back many bw things but in a dumbed down or overcomplicated way.
Idk how to feel anymore. It's one thing to want to make a new game, but to make a new game and refuse to take things from the old game that are clearly better, and then taking things from the old game but changing them in ways that don't make sense just for the sake of making it new and denying any similarities...... ughh.
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On June 10 2012 03:12 emc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:07 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 03:01 emc wrote:
I don't think bio is as dead in TvZ as people may think. Look at a current TvZ and tell me why terrans still go 3/3 bio when they see mass ling/infestor? Can you tell me? It's because bio is cost effective as hell, and with medivacs can harass for a ton of damage. In a late game TvZ in WoL we might see bio+medivac+tank+viking+thor right? And zerg would have infestor+BL+ling+corrupter. Now lets just imagine a lategame TvZ in HotS. Terran can still run his marines away from blinding cloud, a zerg has to cast 2 spells from 2 different units, believe me it's not easy to accomplish when you want to blinding cloud an entire army + fungal an entire army all the while making sure your lings get in perfectly, all terran has to do is make sure their tanks are sieged, then they just need to make sure their bio army is split enough to mitigate the fungals while using the vikings to target vipers or BLs. Once you have a split bio army, any blinding cloud that gets laid down you micro back, you will probably lose your tanks but BL's would have cleaned them up anyways. I think terrans will already have vikings ready because they will be necessary to mitigate the strength of vipers in the mid game.
But lets think about the early to mid game for a second. If zerg goes fast 3 base, he also can't very well fast tech to infestor AND drone AND have an army AND have vipers. Terran can prepare a 2 base timing to decimate any zerg who tries to play greedy and go infestor/viper, zerg has to make a choice! And if zerg manages to get to late game with an infestor/viper/ling army, you can STILL use medivac drops, because what anti-air does zerg really have besides queens who get owned by 8 marines with 3/3, stim and combat shields? As I already said, look at a current TvZ, the zerg who spends his money on getting spores/spines still manages to get harassed because they can't cover every single drop zone in every single one of their bases. This is why I don't think bio is all that dead in this match up, but of course it's impossible to speculate without real data. Yes late game TvZ will be scary for Terrans, but there is still a lot of things to explore in this expansion.
oh and if zerg goes 2 base viper/infestor there is no way they will have enough gas to make sure both infestors and vipers are doing their job and they won't afford upgrades for zerglings either which is the most important aspect to the build. I'm not sure what level you play at, but players do not go Bio versus ling infestor (ran k1 master here). You seem to just be making a justification to the claim you make in your post, even if that justification is poorly supported. so terrans resort to mech in WoL then after seeing infestor? what terran deviates from bio once they've already committed to it? Thats the question I'm asking here. If I see terrans STILL pull off wins despite knowing zerg has them countered, then I think terran will be just fine in HotS if they use all the tools properly. What about ghosts? ravens? Surely ravens aren't the best unit but their PDD could buy you time necessary to deal with the units needed to win. I'm not a pro, and I know I'm just speculating and theorycrafting but that's the difference, is that I know I'm speculating. I'm throwing out ideas so that other terrans can maybe start the a process in their head to how they could defeat a zerg HotS army in the same way they defeat a WoL army instead of just being a defeatist and giving up.
All I know is that I will be playing Protoss in HotS. Good thing I spent the few days it took to get my protoss to the same level and point value as my Terran. I still remember having an easier time beating the same gms offracing as protoss than trying to win as my main race. t.t.
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On June 10 2012 03:09 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:03 Plansix wrote:On June 10 2012 02:59 Snoodles wrote:On June 10 2012 02:58 Plansix wrote:On June 10 2012 02:50 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Benjamin Baker @DeMusliM Flash just came down and sat next to me and started playing hots!! He's also with stork, bisu and jaedong. No biggy! http://pic.twitter.com/uZUPOgRgBenjamin Baker @DeMusliM Stork floats a factory in flash's main and blow up 20 probes with the mines, flash laughed/freaked out. Was awesome Oh man, mine drops are going to be the worst thing in the world. You can put 8 of those things in a single medivac...4 in the main, 4 in the natural. 1-1-1 early game medivac-mine drop? One can only hope. I am really looking forward to trying to pick out 4 probes from the mineral line while they all pass through each other and mine gas....O_o And it only takes one of them going off to ruin your whole day. Well, terrans wanted protoss and zerg to micro... Are you really going to have a hard time in 10 seconds? That's like an eternity in an RTS and even a very low level player should have no problem.
Yes, I am not as good at the game as you are, because you are a masters on the korean ladder. But I also don't think you have the mechanical skill of Flash, because, well, you don't. If it is so easy, why is the story about him losing all of his probes to widow mines?
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On June 10 2012 02:50 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:46 HeroMystic wrote:On June 10 2012 02:33 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:28 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:26 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:23 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:21 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:20 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:19 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:17 s3rp wrote:
What really funny here is people basically suggest Terran to build Air/Mech and Bio units combined not considering there's no way to upgrade everything well enough to compete with armies that only need 1 or 2 sets of Upgrades. Upgrades are fucking important for everything. bro if you don't have vikings with mech then what are you doing? they support tanks with their high range and increased vision, you absolutely need air units as Terran. Dude there are people suggesting adding Marine to your Mech/Air army. How is that going to work ? I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that if a terran doesn't have a starport, they are doing it wrong. I think thor/mine/viking will be the AA you need, and if not? raven with PDD will surely help. And i disagree with that Thors fucking suck if they don't get a change and Mines would be totally unreliable to consistently deal damage. The biggest problem is Mech cannot take more than 3 Bases safely and subsequently doesn't have enough Gas to finance an army strong enough while also keeping up with Upgrades on everything. i don't see how this changes. why don't we calm down the rage until the beta comes out and balance actually matters? I'm willing to wait and see but what they showed here is nothing to be excited about . Its looks like a turd and you guys are trying to polish it for Terran players but it still looks like a polished turd. the battle reports reminded me of BW, so yeah, I'm FUCKING excited the way this game is turning out. I'm sorry that Toss/Zerg are getting all the love, but I'm sure as fucking shit that blizzard won't leave terran in the dust. This is an incomplete game and it already looks fucking awesome. The TvZ in particular had engagements all over the map, the supplies never reached 200/200 death ball status and we actually got to see a lot of tech. GRANTED these weren't pros playing their A game but it still looked fucking cool, I can't wait to see what pros can do with the game... I bet reapers in WoL looked fair to you? then some guy named morrow shit on everyone with reapers, probably still thought they were fair huh? I play zerg but I keep my bias under control, maybe you should to until we get an open beta. you and zmansman17 are just circle jerking, we get it ok? you are unhappy, get over it. Granted I'm Terran, but I'm not gonna commentate on balance 'n such at this stage of the game. However, I have to admit that Terran is looking pretty damn boring this update compared to Protoss and Zerg. And I'm not talking about balance (because I'm sure Terran will still win games), I'm talking about unit designs. We got an A-Moving Mech Buster and a mechanical Zealot with no speed boost. We have laughably bad Reapers with Combat Drugs, and we have Mines. The Mines are the only unit I'm legitmately excited for because of all the useful applications I can see in them. Combined with the Ghost nerf, and there just isn't any "fun" unit within the Terran army anymore. Zerg and Protoss got some absolutely crazy shit and as a Terran player that makes me pretty jealous. I fucking love the Raven, and I want to use it more. However it costs so much gas and takes a year and a half to upgrade that there's no plausible way to use it in the game until you hit late game. Yeah I think this is how a lot of Terrans feel. We wanted late game options. We wanted to use the Raven. We wanted the ghost back. And what do we get: microless battle hellion and a mediocre mech unit The more I think about it the more I think no one will play Terran in HoTS. And like the other guy said i'm not talking about balance. The fact is that with all the crap Zerg and Protoss is getting bio is seriously looking terrible. TvZ Zerg just has so many things that destroy bio now, banelings, fungal, locusts and the viper cloud will all rape bio. TvP is looking really impossible. Mech will not work against protoss ever in SC2 as long as Protoss has warp gate, warp prisms and blink stalkers. And the same MMMGV against Protoss with all those new units and abilities will obviously be a nightmare. Even TvT will probably be worse because of the battle hellion/ mines ruining marine tank battles. And plus, do Terran players really want to play some stupid turtle mech 1a style in all matchups?
And if that isn't enough, the fact that Terran has the hardest macro and the least interesting new units will cause everyone to jump ship to Zerg and Protoss. I really hope I'm wrong because I don't want to play anything but Terran but damn man I just don't see it.
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On June 10 2012 03:12 pzea469 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:36 Falling wrote:On June 10 2012 02:28 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:25 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 10 2012 02:19 Firesilver wrote:On June 10 2012 02:17 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 02:15 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Are mutas even scary with the new mine? Widow 1-hit ko mutas. Way better than Turrets. What if a muta with a mine kamikazes itself into your workers/ army? Someone said earlier in this thread it doesn't do friendly damage IIRC. this seems stupid to me. Nukes inflict friendly damage, as do seeker missiles. Why implement a random inconsistency? urgh.. I think it's to prevent blobs of roaches just to clear out minefields then suicide into the terran army. Or blobs of overlords picking up the mines and decimating all medivacs/vikings. Or when mutas magic box a mech army and get a few mines attached to them, they won't decimate the vikings while cleaning up the thors. I think it's fair, the mine would be too big of a risk if it caused friendly fire. I think friendly fire would only work if the mine exploded immediately upon contact. Yeah, I think as long as it has a timer, especially a ten second timer (that's forever in SC2 battles), friendly fire just wouldn't make sense. They would become your own worst enemy of creating suicide bomber for the other player to send at you. You'd probably be better off latching the mines to your own stimmed marauders and sending them forward. They really need to stop beating around the bush and just acknowledge that these aren't new ideas, just complicated iterations of a far simpler and effective ability. It just seems their unit designs need to go through such crazy contortions just to recreate the same unit interactions/ roles, but be 'completely new.' Just embrace what they are already doing. Couldn't agree more. There was an interview where they asked about it looking like a lot of the new ideas are from broodwar, and it was denied like they had no idea what the interviewer was talking about. The weirdest thing to me is the consume ability. To regain energy instead of consuming a unit, you need to consume health from a building to regen energy? It just seems really odd and only there to be different. They brought back many bw things but in a dumbed down or overcomplicated way. Idk how to feel anymore. It's one thing to want to make a new game, but to make a new game and refuse to take things from the old game that are clearly better, and then taking things from the old game but changing them in ways that don't make sense just for the sake of making it new and denying any similarities...... ughh.
I like your post because a lot of these changes are derived from BW, but they feel more contrived and "dumbed down", as you say. Taking health from buildings instead of units for the consume ability is strange. If you are going to draw so closely from BW, why not go all the way and reproduce the exact abilities instead of trying to change them slightly just to be different.
As for the mines, it's a no-brainer. Obviously the mines cannot be friendly fire. They seem to be of limited utility as it is, that would make them a liability.
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It just seems really odd and only there to be different.
It could be they just want to give it a base defending advantage, instead of allowing regen at the battle.
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On June 10 2012 03:10 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:07 Noocta wrote:On June 10 2012 03:04 Snowbear wrote:On June 10 2012 03:01 emc wrote:
I don't think bio is as dead in TvZ as people may think. Look at a current TvZ and tell me why terrans still go 3/3 bio when they see mass ling/infestor? Can you tell me? It's because bio is cost effective as hell, and with medivacs can harass for a ton of damage. In a late game TvZ in WoL we might see bio+medivac+tank+viking+thor right? And zerg would have infestor+BL+ling+corrupter. Now lets just imagine a lategame TvZ in HotS. Terran can still run his marines away from blinding cloud, a zerg has to cast 2 spells from 2 different units, believe me it's not easy to accomplish when you want to blinding cloud an entire army + fungal an entire army all the while making sure your lings get in perfectly, all terran has to do is make sure their tanks are sieged, then they just need to make sure their bio army is split enough to mitigate the fungals. Once you have a split bio army, any blinding cloud that gets laid down you micro back, you will probably lose your tanks but BL's would have cleaned them up anyways. You also have vikings in the mix, you will probably end up targetting vipers first because they need to be closer than BL's to cast their spells, and I think terrans will already prematurely have made Vikings to mitigate the strength of vipers in the mid game.
But lets think about the early to mid game for a second. If zerg goes fast 3 base, he also can't very well fast tech to infestor AND drone AND have an army AND have vipers. Terran can prepare a 2 base timing to decimate any zerg who tries to play greedy and go infestor/viper, zerg has to make a choice! And if zerg manages to get to late game with an infestor/viper/ling army, you can STILL use medivac drops, because what anti-air does zerg really have besides queens who get owned by 8 marines with 3/3, stim and combat shields? As I already said, look at a current TvZ, the zerg who spends his money on getting spores/spines still manages to get harassed because they can't cover every single drop zone in every single one of their bases. This is why I don't think bio is all that dead in this match up, but of course it's impossible to speculate without real data. Yes late game TvZ will be scary for Terrans, but there is still a lot of things to explore in this expansion. I don't know what game you play atm, but in sc2 terrans are STILL (after months) looking for a sollution against broodlord infestor. It's not beatable with even economy. In HOTS the zerg gets 1) dark swarm 2) vipers, and you are telling how possible it will be to beat broodlord + infestor in HOTS, after zerg received MORE options??? Lategame TvZ is a complete joke in WOL, and with the burrowed ultra, the dark swarm and the viper pull, it will be an even bigger joke. You can beat Infestors Broodlords. Don't act like it has never be done. You need to be on even footing when he start to have a good mixture of the composition, but marines tanks viking deal with it fine with good positioning, good upgrades, and not sieging your tanks; Provide 1 game where the terran beated a broodlord infestor composition, without being ahead. You will find 0 games. Yes, with 3-3 thors and ravens and the zerg clumping up is broodlords, it's doable. But it's not when you don't go mech.
Meh, you have a mentality problem here.
Just gonna say there's a reason why ZvT is more and more about Ultralisk and less and less about Broodlord these days.
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people are really bitching about the warhound, reported to cost 75 gas only and to have a powerful skill + attack?
I think terran will be good.
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On June 10 2012 03:16 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:50 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 02:46 HeroMystic wrote:On June 10 2012 02:33 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:28 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:26 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:23 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:21 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:20 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:19 emc wrote:
[quote]
bro if you don't have vikings with mech then what are you doing? they support tanks with their high range and increased vision, you absolutely need air units as Terran. Dude there are people suggesting adding Marine to your Mech/Air army. How is that going to work ? I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that if a terran doesn't have a starport, they are doing it wrong. I think thor/mine/viking will be the AA you need, and if not? raven with PDD will surely help. And i disagree with that Thors fucking suck if they don't get a change and Mines would be totally unreliable to consistently deal damage. The biggest problem is Mech cannot take more than 3 Bases safely and subsequently doesn't have enough Gas to finance an army strong enough while also keeping up with Upgrades on everything. i don't see how this changes. why don't we calm down the rage until the beta comes out and balance actually matters? I'm willing to wait and see but what they showed here is nothing to be excited about . Its looks like a turd and you guys are trying to polish it for Terran players but it still looks like a polished turd. the battle reports reminded me of BW, so yeah, I'm FUCKING excited the way this game is turning out. I'm sorry that Toss/Zerg are getting all the love, but I'm sure as fucking shit that blizzard won't leave terran in the dust. This is an incomplete game and it already looks fucking awesome. The TvZ in particular had engagements all over the map, the supplies never reached 200/200 death ball status and we actually got to see a lot of tech. GRANTED these weren't pros playing their A game but it still looked fucking cool, I can't wait to see what pros can do with the game... I bet reapers in WoL looked fair to you? then some guy named morrow shit on everyone with reapers, probably still thought they were fair huh? I play zerg but I keep my bias under control, maybe you should to until we get an open beta. you and zmansman17 are just circle jerking, we get it ok? you are unhappy, get over it. Granted I'm Terran, but I'm not gonna commentate on balance 'n such at this stage of the game. However, I have to admit that Terran is looking pretty damn boring this update compared to Protoss and Zerg. And I'm not talking about balance (because I'm sure Terran will still win games), I'm talking about unit designs. We got an A-Moving Mech Buster and a mechanical Zealot with no speed boost. We have laughably bad Reapers with Combat Drugs, and we have Mines. The Mines are the only unit I'm legitmately excited for because of all the useful applications I can see in them. Combined with the Ghost nerf, and there just isn't any "fun" unit within the Terran army anymore. Zerg and Protoss got some absolutely crazy shit and as a Terran player that makes me pretty jealous. I fucking love the Raven, and I want to use it more. However it costs so much gas and takes a year and a half to upgrade that there's no plausible way to use it in the game until you hit late game. Yeah I think this is how a lot of Terrans feel. We wanted late game options. We wanted to use the Raven. We wanted the ghost back. And what do we get: microless battle hellion and a mediocre mech unit The more I think about it the more I think no one will play Terran in HoTS. And like the other guy said i'm not talking about balance. The fact is that with all the crap Zerg and Protoss is getting bio is seriously looking terrible. TvZ Zerg just has so many things that destroy bio now, banelings, fungal, locusts and the viper cloud will all rape bio. TvP is looking really impossible. Mech will not work against protoss ever in SC2 as long as Protoss has warp gate, warp prisms and blink stalkers. And the same MMMGV against Protoss with all those new units and abilities will obviously be a nightmare. Even TvT will probably be worse because of the battle hellion/ mines ruining marine tank battles. And plus, do Terran players really want to play some stupid turtle mech 1a style in all matchups? And if that isn't enough, the fact that Terran has the hardest macro and the least interesting new units will cause everyone to jump ship to Zerg and Protoss. I really hope I'm wrong because I don't want to play anything but Terran but damn man I just don't see it.
Part 1: The community - WE WANT MECH! WHY YOU NO LET US MECH BLIZZ?
Part 2: Blizz introduces some pre-beta mech ideas at MLG
Part 3: The community - MECH IS TURTLEY AND 1A, DONT WANNA PLAY
Part 4: The end
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No Terran is garbage now and will be worse in HotS.
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On June 10 2012 03:17 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:10 Snowbear wrote:On June 10 2012 03:07 Noocta wrote:On June 10 2012 03:04 Snowbear wrote:On June 10 2012 03:01 emc wrote:
I don't think bio is as dead in TvZ as people may think. Look at a current TvZ and tell me why terrans still go 3/3 bio when they see mass ling/infestor? Can you tell me? It's because bio is cost effective as hell, and with medivacs can harass for a ton of damage. In a late game TvZ in WoL we might see bio+medivac+tank+viking+thor right? And zerg would have infestor+BL+ling+corrupter. Now lets just imagine a lategame TvZ in HotS. Terran can still run his marines away from blinding cloud, a zerg has to cast 2 spells from 2 different units, believe me it's not easy to accomplish when you want to blinding cloud an entire army + fungal an entire army all the while making sure your lings get in perfectly, all terran has to do is make sure their tanks are sieged, then they just need to make sure their bio army is split enough to mitigate the fungals. Once you have a split bio army, any blinding cloud that gets laid down you micro back, you will probably lose your tanks but BL's would have cleaned them up anyways. You also have vikings in the mix, you will probably end up targetting vipers first because they need to be closer than BL's to cast their spells, and I think terrans will already prematurely have made Vikings to mitigate the strength of vipers in the mid game.
But lets think about the early to mid game for a second. If zerg goes fast 3 base, he also can't very well fast tech to infestor AND drone AND have an army AND have vipers. Terran can prepare a 2 base timing to decimate any zerg who tries to play greedy and go infestor/viper, zerg has to make a choice! And if zerg manages to get to late game with an infestor/viper/ling army, you can STILL use medivac drops, because what anti-air does zerg really have besides queens who get owned by 8 marines with 3/3, stim and combat shields? As I already said, look at a current TvZ, the zerg who spends his money on getting spores/spines still manages to get harassed because they can't cover every single drop zone in every single one of their bases. This is why I don't think bio is all that dead in this match up, but of course it's impossible to speculate without real data. Yes late game TvZ will be scary for Terrans, but there is still a lot of things to explore in this expansion. I don't know what game you play atm, but in sc2 terrans are STILL (after months) looking for a sollution against broodlord infestor. It's not beatable with even economy. In HOTS the zerg gets 1) dark swarm 2) vipers, and you are telling how possible it will be to beat broodlord + infestor in HOTS, after zerg received MORE options??? Lategame TvZ is a complete joke in WOL, and with the burrowed ultra, the dark swarm and the viper pull, it will be an even bigger joke. You can beat Infestors Broodlords. Don't act like it has never be done. You need to be on even footing when he start to have a good mixture of the composition, but marines tanks viking deal with it fine with good positioning, good upgrades, and not sieging your tanks; Provide 1 game where the terran beated a broodlord infestor composition, without being ahead. You will find 0 games. Yes, with 3-3 thors and ravens and the zerg clumping up is broodlords, it's doable. But it's not when you don't go mech. Meh, you have a mentality problem here. Just gonna say there's a reason why ZvT is more and more about Ultralisk and less and less about Broodlord these days.
The reason is that ultras are easier to use then broodlords + they are much more mobile. I don't have a mentality problem, I am just a realist. Broodlord + infestor is way too cost-efficiënt, and then some guy comes and tells us how it will be all fine in HOTS, when the zerg gets options to make his broodlord infestor composition even stronger.
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On June 10 2012 03:16 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:50 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 02:46 HeroMystic wrote:On June 10 2012 02:33 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:28 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:26 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:23 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:21 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:20 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:19 emc wrote:
[quote]
bro if you don't have vikings with mech then what are you doing? they support tanks with their high range and increased vision, you absolutely need air units as Terran. Dude there are people suggesting adding Marine to your Mech/Air army. How is that going to work ? I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that if a terran doesn't have a starport, they are doing it wrong. I think thor/mine/viking will be the AA you need, and if not? raven with PDD will surely help. And i disagree with that Thors fucking suck if they don't get a change and Mines would be totally unreliable to consistently deal damage. The biggest problem is Mech cannot take more than 3 Bases safely and subsequently doesn't have enough Gas to finance an army strong enough while also keeping up with Upgrades on everything. i don't see how this changes. why don't we calm down the rage until the beta comes out and balance actually matters? I'm willing to wait and see but what they showed here is nothing to be excited about . Its looks like a turd and you guys are trying to polish it for Terran players but it still looks like a polished turd. the battle reports reminded me of BW, so yeah, I'm FUCKING excited the way this game is turning out. I'm sorry that Toss/Zerg are getting all the love, but I'm sure as fucking shit that blizzard won't leave terran in the dust. This is an incomplete game and it already looks fucking awesome. The TvZ in particular had engagements all over the map, the supplies never reached 200/200 death ball status and we actually got to see a lot of tech. GRANTED these weren't pros playing their A game but it still looked fucking cool, I can't wait to see what pros can do with the game... I bet reapers in WoL looked fair to you? then some guy named morrow shit on everyone with reapers, probably still thought they were fair huh? I play zerg but I keep my bias under control, maybe you should to until we get an open beta. you and zmansman17 are just circle jerking, we get it ok? you are unhappy, get over it. Granted I'm Terran, but I'm not gonna commentate on balance 'n such at this stage of the game. However, I have to admit that Terran is looking pretty damn boring this update compared to Protoss and Zerg. And I'm not talking about balance (because I'm sure Terran will still win games), I'm talking about unit designs. We got an A-Moving Mech Buster and a mechanical Zealot with no speed boost. We have laughably bad Reapers with Combat Drugs, and we have Mines. The Mines are the only unit I'm legitmately excited for because of all the useful applications I can see in them. Combined with the Ghost nerf, and there just isn't any "fun" unit within the Terran army anymore. Zerg and Protoss got some absolutely crazy shit and as a Terran player that makes me pretty jealous. I fucking love the Raven, and I want to use it more. However it costs so much gas and takes a year and a half to upgrade that there's no plausible way to use it in the game until you hit late game. Yeah I think this is how a lot of Terrans feel. We wanted late game options. We wanted to use the Raven. We wanted the ghost back. And what do we get: microless battle hellion and a mediocre mech unit The more I think about it the more I think no one will play Terran in HoTS. And like the other guy said i'm not talking about balance. The fact is that with all the crap Zerg and Protoss is getting bio is seriously looking terrible. TvZ Zerg just has so many things that destroy bio now, banelings, fungal, locusts and the viper cloud will all rape bio. TvP is looking really impossible. Mech will not work against protoss ever in SC2 as long as Protoss has warp gate, warp prisms and blink stalkers. And the same MMMGV against Protoss with all those new units and abilities will obviously be a nightmare. Even TvT will probably be worse because of the battle hellion/ mines ruining marine tank battles. And plus, do Terran players really want to play some stupid turtle mech 1a style in all matchups? And if that isn't enough, the fact that Terran has the hardest macro and the least interesting new units will cause everyone to jump ship to Zerg and Protoss. I really hope I'm wrong because I don't want to play anything but Terran but damn man I just don't see it.
Agreed on all counts. I loved TvT for the same reasons I love chess. It was slow, calculated and rewarded careful planning and small gains.
Now TvT will be herp derp, just run in with the Warhound and there goes my favorite MU. And I feel that I can safely make this assertion since DK himself said that they wanted a way "to break seige lines in TvT", so however the Warhound is adjusted for balance, this will remain its main purpose.
As for the other MUs, there's nothing that keeps my interest to even compel me to continue playing Terran. I'd rather experiment and enjoy this game by playing Protoss or Zerg instead of playing with the crap Terran has been given.
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On June 10 2012 03:19 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:16 Solo Terran wrote:On June 10 2012 02:50 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 02:46 HeroMystic wrote:On June 10 2012 02:33 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:28 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:26 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:23 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:21 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:20 s3rp wrote:
[quote]
Dude there are people suggesting adding Marine to your Mech/Air army. How is that going to work ? I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that if a terran doesn't have a starport, they are doing it wrong. I think thor/mine/viking will be the AA you need, and if not? raven with PDD will surely help. And i disagree with that Thors fucking suck if they don't get a change and Mines would be totally unreliable to consistently deal damage. The biggest problem is Mech cannot take more than 3 Bases safely and subsequently doesn't have enough Gas to finance an army strong enough while also keeping up with Upgrades on everything. i don't see how this changes. why don't we calm down the rage until the beta comes out and balance actually matters? I'm willing to wait and see but what they showed here is nothing to be excited about . Its looks like a turd and you guys are trying to polish it for Terran players but it still looks like a polished turd. the battle reports reminded me of BW, so yeah, I'm FUCKING excited the way this game is turning out. I'm sorry that Toss/Zerg are getting all the love, but I'm sure as fucking shit that blizzard won't leave terran in the dust. This is an incomplete game and it already looks fucking awesome. The TvZ in particular had engagements all over the map, the supplies never reached 200/200 death ball status and we actually got to see a lot of tech. GRANTED these weren't pros playing their A game but it still looked fucking cool, I can't wait to see what pros can do with the game... I bet reapers in WoL looked fair to you? then some guy named morrow shit on everyone with reapers, probably still thought they were fair huh? I play zerg but I keep my bias under control, maybe you should to until we get an open beta. you and zmansman17 are just circle jerking, we get it ok? you are unhappy, get over it. Granted I'm Terran, but I'm not gonna commentate on balance 'n such at this stage of the game. However, I have to admit that Terran is looking pretty damn boring this update compared to Protoss and Zerg. And I'm not talking about balance (because I'm sure Terran will still win games), I'm talking about unit designs. We got an A-Moving Mech Buster and a mechanical Zealot with no speed boost. We have laughably bad Reapers with Combat Drugs, and we have Mines. The Mines are the only unit I'm legitmately excited for because of all the useful applications I can see in them. Combined with the Ghost nerf, and there just isn't any "fun" unit within the Terran army anymore. Zerg and Protoss got some absolutely crazy shit and as a Terran player that makes me pretty jealous. I fucking love the Raven, and I want to use it more. However it costs so much gas and takes a year and a half to upgrade that there's no plausible way to use it in the game until you hit late game. Yeah I think this is how a lot of Terrans feel. We wanted late game options. We wanted to use the Raven. We wanted the ghost back. And what do we get: microless battle hellion and a mediocre mech unit The more I think about it the more I think no one will play Terran in HoTS. And like the other guy said i'm not talking about balance. The fact is that with all the crap Zerg and Protoss is getting bio is seriously looking terrible. TvZ Zerg just has so many things that destroy bio now, banelings, fungal, locusts and the viper cloud will all rape bio. TvP is looking really impossible. Mech will not work against protoss ever in SC2 as long as Protoss has warp gate, warp prisms and blink stalkers. And the same MMMGV against Protoss with all those new units and abilities will obviously be a nightmare. Even TvT will probably be worse because of the battle hellion/ mines ruining marine tank battles. And plus, do Terran players really want to play some stupid turtle mech 1a style in all matchups? And if that isn't enough, the fact that Terran has the hardest macro and the least interesting new units will cause everyone to jump ship to Zerg and Protoss. I really hope I'm wrong because I don't want to play anything but Terran but damn man I just don't see it. Part 1: The community - WE WANT MECH! WHY YOU NO LET US MECH BLIZZ? Part 2: Blizz introduces some pre-beta mech ideas at MLG Part 3: The community - MECH IS TURTLEY AND 1A, DONT WANNA PLAY Part 4: The end Yeah because we asked for the warhound that auto attacks mech targets itself and slower moving hellions that cant be micro'd. And yeah borrwing mines is really exciting micro.
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I love how people in this thread are judging balance from 2 non pro's playing each other and doing some really weird decisions and going "omg x race looks op" and how terran looks super underpowered and the game it showed proves it just lol.
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Well time start to work on my protoss, you will be remembered as my favorite race,terran.
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On June 10 2012 03:21 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:19 SarcasmMonster wrote:On June 10 2012 03:16 Solo Terran wrote:On June 10 2012 02:50 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 02:46 HeroMystic wrote:On June 10 2012 02:33 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:28 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:26 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:23 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:21 emc wrote:
[quote]
I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that if a terran doesn't have a starport, they are doing it wrong.
I think thor/mine/viking will be the AA you need, and if not? raven with PDD will surely help. And i disagree with that Thors fucking suck if they don't get a change and Mines would be totally unreliable to consistently deal damage. The biggest problem is Mech cannot take more than 3 Bases safely and subsequently doesn't have enough Gas to finance an army strong enough while also keeping up with Upgrades on everything. i don't see how this changes. why don't we calm down the rage until the beta comes out and balance actually matters? I'm willing to wait and see but what they showed here is nothing to be excited about . Its looks like a turd and you guys are trying to polish it for Terran players but it still looks like a polished turd. the battle reports reminded me of BW, so yeah, I'm FUCKING excited the way this game is turning out. I'm sorry that Toss/Zerg are getting all the love, but I'm sure as fucking shit that blizzard won't leave terran in the dust. This is an incomplete game and it already looks fucking awesome. The TvZ in particular had engagements all over the map, the supplies never reached 200/200 death ball status and we actually got to see a lot of tech. GRANTED these weren't pros playing their A game but it still looked fucking cool, I can't wait to see what pros can do with the game... I bet reapers in WoL looked fair to you? then some guy named morrow shit on everyone with reapers, probably still thought they were fair huh? I play zerg but I keep my bias under control, maybe you should to until we get an open beta. you and zmansman17 are just circle jerking, we get it ok? you are unhappy, get over it. Granted I'm Terran, but I'm not gonna commentate on balance 'n such at this stage of the game. However, I have to admit that Terran is looking pretty damn boring this update compared to Protoss and Zerg. And I'm not talking about balance (because I'm sure Terran will still win games), I'm talking about unit designs. We got an A-Moving Mech Buster and a mechanical Zealot with no speed boost. We have laughably bad Reapers with Combat Drugs, and we have Mines. The Mines are the only unit I'm legitmately excited for because of all the useful applications I can see in them. Combined with the Ghost nerf, and there just isn't any "fun" unit within the Terran army anymore. Zerg and Protoss got some absolutely crazy shit and as a Terran player that makes me pretty jealous. I fucking love the Raven, and I want to use it more. However it costs so much gas and takes a year and a half to upgrade that there's no plausible way to use it in the game until you hit late game. Yeah I think this is how a lot of Terrans feel. We wanted late game options. We wanted to use the Raven. We wanted the ghost back. And what do we get: microless battle hellion and a mediocre mech unit The more I think about it the more I think no one will play Terran in HoTS. And like the other guy said i'm not talking about balance. The fact is that with all the crap Zerg and Protoss is getting bio is seriously looking terrible. TvZ Zerg just has so many things that destroy bio now, banelings, fungal, locusts and the viper cloud will all rape bio. TvP is looking really impossible. Mech will not work against protoss ever in SC2 as long as Protoss has warp gate, warp prisms and blink stalkers. And the same MMMGV against Protoss with all those new units and abilities will obviously be a nightmare. Even TvT will probably be worse because of the battle hellion/ mines ruining marine tank battles. And plus, do Terran players really want to play some stupid turtle mech 1a style in all matchups? And if that isn't enough, the fact that Terran has the hardest macro and the least interesting new units will cause everyone to jump ship to Zerg and Protoss. I really hope I'm wrong because I don't want to play anything but Terran but damn man I just don't see it. Part 1: The community - WE WANT MECH! WHY YOU NO LET US MECH BLIZZ? Part 2: Blizz introduces some pre-beta mech ideas at MLG Part 3: The community - MECH IS TURTLEY AND 1A, DONT WANNA PLAY Part 4: The end Yeah because we asked for the warhound that auto attacks mech targets itself and slower moving hellions that cant be micro'd. And yeah borrwing mines is really exciting micro.
Until we use these units ourselves, I don't think we can comment on what can and cannot be microed.
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On June 10 2012 03:21 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:19 SarcasmMonster wrote:On June 10 2012 03:16 Solo Terran wrote:On June 10 2012 02:50 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 02:46 HeroMystic wrote:On June 10 2012 02:33 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:28 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:26 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:23 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:21 emc wrote:
[quote]
I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that if a terran doesn't have a starport, they are doing it wrong.
I think thor/mine/viking will be the AA you need, and if not? raven with PDD will surely help. And i disagree with that Thors fucking suck if they don't get a change and Mines would be totally unreliable to consistently deal damage. The biggest problem is Mech cannot take more than 3 Bases safely and subsequently doesn't have enough Gas to finance an army strong enough while also keeping up with Upgrades on everything. i don't see how this changes. why don't we calm down the rage until the beta comes out and balance actually matters? I'm willing to wait and see but what they showed here is nothing to be excited about . Its looks like a turd and you guys are trying to polish it for Terran players but it still looks like a polished turd. the battle reports reminded me of BW, so yeah, I'm FUCKING excited the way this game is turning out. I'm sorry that Toss/Zerg are getting all the love, but I'm sure as fucking shit that blizzard won't leave terran in the dust. This is an incomplete game and it already looks fucking awesome. The TvZ in particular had engagements all over the map, the supplies never reached 200/200 death ball status and we actually got to see a lot of tech. GRANTED these weren't pros playing their A game but it still looked fucking cool, I can't wait to see what pros can do with the game... I bet reapers in WoL looked fair to you? then some guy named morrow shit on everyone with reapers, probably still thought they were fair huh? I play zerg but I keep my bias under control, maybe you should to until we get an open beta. you and zmansman17 are just circle jerking, we get it ok? you are unhappy, get over it. Granted I'm Terran, but I'm not gonna commentate on balance 'n such at this stage of the game. However, I have to admit that Terran is looking pretty damn boring this update compared to Protoss and Zerg. And I'm not talking about balance (because I'm sure Terran will still win games), I'm talking about unit designs. We got an A-Moving Mech Buster and a mechanical Zealot with no speed boost. We have laughably bad Reapers with Combat Drugs, and we have Mines. The Mines are the only unit I'm legitmately excited for because of all the useful applications I can see in them. Combined with the Ghost nerf, and there just isn't any "fun" unit within the Terran army anymore. Zerg and Protoss got some absolutely crazy shit and as a Terran player that makes me pretty jealous. I fucking love the Raven, and I want to use it more. However it costs so much gas and takes a year and a half to upgrade that there's no plausible way to use it in the game until you hit late game. Yeah I think this is how a lot of Terrans feel. We wanted late game options. We wanted to use the Raven. We wanted the ghost back. And what do we get: microless battle hellion and a mediocre mech unit The more I think about it the more I think no one will play Terran in HoTS. And like the other guy said i'm not talking about balance. The fact is that with all the crap Zerg and Protoss is getting bio is seriously looking terrible. TvZ Zerg just has so many things that destroy bio now, banelings, fungal, locusts and the viper cloud will all rape bio. TvP is looking really impossible. Mech will not work against protoss ever in SC2 as long as Protoss has warp gate, warp prisms and blink stalkers. And the same MMMGV against Protoss with all those new units and abilities will obviously be a nightmare. Even TvT will probably be worse because of the battle hellion/ mines ruining marine tank battles. And plus, do Terran players really want to play some stupid turtle mech 1a style in all matchups? And if that isn't enough, the fact that Terran has the hardest macro and the least interesting new units will cause everyone to jump ship to Zerg and Protoss. I really hope I'm wrong because I don't want to play anything but Terran but damn man I just don't see it. Part 1: The community - WE WANT MECH! WHY YOU NO LET US MECH BLIZZ? Part 2: Blizz introduces some pre-beta mech ideas at MLG Part 3: The community - MECH IS TURTLEY AND 1A, DONT WANNA PLAY Part 4: The end Yeah because we asked for the warhound that auto attacks mech targets itself and slower moving hellions that cant be micro'd. And yeah borrwing mines is really exciting micro.
That's how mech always been (in BW anyways), slow and methodical, like Flash. Build your metal ball of doom and slowly push your giant army to victory.
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On June 10 2012 03:24 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 03:21 Solo Terran wrote:On June 10 2012 03:19 SarcasmMonster wrote:On June 10 2012 03:16 Solo Terran wrote:On June 10 2012 02:50 zmansman17 wrote:On June 10 2012 02:46 HeroMystic wrote:On June 10 2012 02:33 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:28 s3rp wrote:On June 10 2012 02:26 emc wrote:On June 10 2012 02:23 s3rp wrote:
[quote]
And i disagree with that Thors fucking suck if they don't get a change and Mines would be totally unreliable to consistently deal damage.
The biggest problem is Mech cannot take more than 3 Bases safely and subsequently doesn't have enough Gas to finance an army strong enough while also keeping up with Upgrades on everything. i don't see how this changes. why don't we calm down the rage until the beta comes out and balance actually matters? I'm willing to wait and see but what they showed here is nothing to be excited about . Its looks like a turd and you guys are trying to polish it for Terran players but it still looks like a polished turd. the battle reports reminded me of BW, so yeah, I'm FUCKING excited the way this game is turning out. I'm sorry that Toss/Zerg are getting all the love, but I'm sure as fucking shit that blizzard won't leave terran in the dust. This is an incomplete game and it already looks fucking awesome. The TvZ in particular had engagements all over the map, the supplies never reached 200/200 death ball status and we actually got to see a lot of tech. GRANTED these weren't pros playing their A game but it still looked fucking cool, I can't wait to see what pros can do with the game... I bet reapers in WoL looked fair to you? then some guy named morrow shit on everyone with reapers, probably still thought they were fair huh? I play zerg but I keep my bias under control, maybe you should to until we get an open beta. you and zmansman17 are just circle jerking, we get it ok? you are unhappy, get over it. Granted I'm Terran, but I'm not gonna commentate on balance 'n such at this stage of the game. However, I have to admit that Terran is looking pretty damn boring this update compared to Protoss and Zerg. And I'm not talking about balance (because I'm sure Terran will still win games), I'm talking about unit designs. We got an A-Moving Mech Buster and a mechanical Zealot with no speed boost. We have laughably bad Reapers with Combat Drugs, and we have Mines. The Mines are the only unit I'm legitmately excited for because of all the useful applications I can see in them. Combined with the Ghost nerf, and there just isn't any "fun" unit within the Terran army anymore. Zerg and Protoss got some absolutely crazy shit and as a Terran player that makes me pretty jealous. I fucking love the Raven, and I want to use it more. However it costs so much gas and takes a year and a half to upgrade that there's no plausible way to use it in the game until you hit late game. Yeah I think this is how a lot of Terrans feel. We wanted late game options. We wanted to use the Raven. We wanted the ghost back. And what do we get: microless battle hellion and a mediocre mech unit The more I think about it the more I think no one will play Terran in HoTS. And like the other guy said i'm not talking about balance. The fact is that with all the crap Zerg and Protoss is getting bio is seriously looking terrible. TvZ Zerg just has so many things that destroy bio now, banelings, fungal, locusts and the viper cloud will all rape bio. TvP is looking really impossible. Mech will not work against protoss ever in SC2 as long as Protoss has warp gate, warp prisms and blink stalkers. And the same MMMGV against Protoss with all those new units and abilities will obviously be a nightmare. Even TvT will probably be worse because of the battle hellion/ mines ruining marine tank battles. And plus, do Terran players really want to play some stupid turtle mech 1a style in all matchups? And if that isn't enough, the fact that Terran has the hardest macro and the least interesting new units will cause everyone to jump ship to Zerg and Protoss. I really hope I'm wrong because I don't want to play anything but Terran but damn man I just don't see it. Part 1: The community - WE WANT MECH! WHY YOU NO LET US MECH BLIZZ? Part 2: Blizz introduces some pre-beta mech ideas at MLG Part 3: The community - MECH IS TURTLEY AND 1A, DONT WANNA PLAY Part 4: The end Yeah because we asked for the warhound that auto attacks mech targets itself and slower moving hellions that cant be micro'd. And yeah borrwing mines is really exciting micro. That's how mech always been (in BW anyways), slow and methodical, like Flash. Build your metal ball of doom and slowly push your giant army to victory.
Or do a 2 fact push with vultures and spidermines, microing like crazy. That's mech too. Or just laying spidermines all around the map.
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Unfortunately, I also don't think I'll be playing terran in HoTS, 22 range tempests, here I come!
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On June 10 2012 03:22 blade55555 wrote:
I love how people in this thread are judging balance from 2 non pro's playing each other and doing some really weird decisions and going "omg x race looks op" and how terran looks super underpowered and the game it showed proves it just lol.
The balance doesn't matter. Blizzard has clearly said with HoTS that mech is the way to go. Yet nothing about the new mech units Terran is getting look exciting. And none of the new mech units seem to have any answers to the problems we had in WoL not to mention all these new units.
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EPT
