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Gyro_SC2
Canada540 Posts
OK, do you think its normal that terran have no option in the lategame vs zerg ? And seriouly do you think someone will find the answer to the terran lategame next month ? The terran foreigner community is dying right now because of stupid patch like that. | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
On June 12 2012 10:29 Gyro_SC2 wrote: OK, do you think its normal that terran have no option in the lategame vs zerg ? And seriouly do you think someone will find the answer to the terran lategame next month ? The terran foreigner community is dying right now because of stupid patch like that. What about when bomber destroyed stephano lategame with bio+raven, or that doesn't count? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 12 2012 12:20 nkr wrote: What about when bomber destroyed stephano lategame with bio+raven, or that doesn't count? We don't talk about zergs and protoss losing. Those matches don't count. Terrans need to be back at a 60% win rate to make up for how hard their race is to play. After all, they require 84.56% more micro and macro that zerg and protoss put together. | ||
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Gyro_SC2
Canada540 Posts
What about when bomber destroyed stephano lategame with bio+raven, or that doesn't count? in which event ? | ||
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NOOBALOPSE
Canada802 Posts
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CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr
544 Posts
in the GDstudio invitationnal or whatever they call it, look in tourney section theres link to vods. But that style is absurdly hard to pull off and theres a ton of garbage that zerg can do that will kill u outright, even that game stephano has zero excuses for losing it bomber made an insane comeback. so if thats the best style then the mu is zerg favored | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On June 12 2012 12:20 nkr wrote: What about when bomber destroyed stephano lategame with bio+raven, or that doesn't count? That is a one hit wonder, dude. Plays like that will never make it to main stream strategy, because if it got popular, people can figure out the timing, unit composition, strategies to kill it ez. You really think that if Bomber used that strat against Stephano right now, he could win again? I don't think so. Unless are you suggesting Terran should play more gimmicky strats like that? | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
On June 12 2012 12:47 canikizu wrote: That is a one hit wonder, dude. Plays like that will never make it to main stream strategy, because if it got popular, people can figure out the timing, unit composition, strategies to kill it ez. You really think that if Bomber used that strat against Stephano right now, he could win again? I don't think so. Unless are you suggesting Terran should play more gimmicky strats like that? As long as the matchup is a complete joke you might as well play super risky/gimmicky/cheesy, rather than get demolished in a 'standard' game. As it stands, sans reverting some terran nerfs/queen buff, I see no way of balancing TvZ without affecting the other matchups too much. | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
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SonKiE
United States167 Posts
On June 12 2012 06:23 biology]major wrote: take your free third at 5 min and defend with pure queen. Make only drones till you saturate all three bases. Use nitropack overlords to scout for incoming all-ins. Then tech to hive at 11 min while defending with ling infestor and collect your win. Don't forget mass lings | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
And maphack tumours everywhere! | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On June 12 2012 10:09 Ace.Xile wrote: Really? So you think that nothing has changed in the past 3 months? Trends haven't changed in build usage, new builds haven't popped up, some players haven't gotten worse and some better? Your views are narrow minded as can be sorry, but pulling random anecdotes and saying WELL NO ITS ONLY BLIZZARD doesn't make sense. You can go watch and check the trends and see how the meta has changed over the past year. Shit 6 months ago people were still using lots of mutas in zvt. Yet ironically the meta changed from muta to infestor with almost no buff to terran or zerg when considering the unit composition. I don't doubt that the recent change from last month, may be due to the fact of the queen buff, but that doesn't mean the matchup is imbalanced it just means that terrans have yet to find a new way to work around it. If there isn't then it's imbalanced, if there is (which there probably is) then well see where that goes. You're a fucking retard. Period. I say this because if you played Terran at all you would know that Terran's have been using the Reactor Helion expand and the Helion = > Banshee expand transition SINCE THE FUCKING BETA. Those are the two builds that are still viable today, and are the only builds you will ever see outside of an extremely gimmicky build. Flash has been showing off some 14 CC = > Triple CC play, but there's massive holes in that because his Siege Timing is so late. TvZ's meta has not changed at all for the past like 6-8 months. It's literally the same 2-3 builds at best every time, and those builds just progressively got weaker and weaker, while Blizzard continues to pour on the buffs for Z for no apparent reason at all. Alot of Terran players like MVP, MMA, etc. STILL utilize the same fucking build that they have been for the past 6-8 months because nothing else can be discovered at all. The continual raping of Bunker Timings, Rax timings, forcing supply depot before Rax, etc. etc. only demonstrates Blizzard's idiotic method of balancing the game. Old bunker/rax timings would have been fine on the current set of maps, because you would have to walk a literal country mile to reach the Z base unlike the older maps like Kulas Ravine, Steppes of War, close base LT/Metal, etc. etc. Zerg has literally the most dominating macro mechanic in the game, and has the best late game by far with Blord/Infestor. They should not have a free ride to that late game at all, and should be extremely vulnerable at certain points in the game. Otherwise you might as well call this SC1 no expansion with Hatches that popped up 15 larvae at hyperspeeds. The OL speed/Queen buffs were overdone; they need to either be rescinded, or Terran will need a shitload of buffs like the Ghost nerfs being reverted, as well as buffing the Raven to actually make it a non-gimmicky unit. On June 12 2012 12:20 nkr wrote: What about when bomber destroyed stephano lategame with bio+raven, or that doesn't count? Stephano had no business losing that game. That's all I'm going to say, because anyone who watched that match would agree with me. He lost because of some idiotic decisions and some really bad control. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On June 12 2012 13:05 Whatson wrote: Zergs are just raping everything in GSL and GSTL right now ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9Lo9v.png) lol. Or did you mean the up and downs where 5 Terran, 3 Zerg and 2 Protoss moved up. Or did you mean last season of GSL when zerg was doing all this raping. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AdfJz.png) Hmm. Zerg: 38 wins Protoss: 20 Terran: 3 Hold on a tic, let's remove out all those ZvZs since we can hardly balance whine about mirror matchups Z-16 Zerg=22 wins Protoss=20 Terran=3 Well, Protoss does not look like it has a problem with Zerg. It looks like Terran has a problem with adjusting to the last patch. Which is pretty normal. So, I submit that Terran is without complaint in GSL and that the GSTL is humiliating but not as stringent of a theorycrafting weathermane as the GSL is. | ||
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OneBaseKing
Afghanistan412 Posts
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On June 12 2012 13:31 OneBaseKing wrote: These stats are ridiculous, rest in fucking peace Terran. The Terran QQ in this thread is awesome. Zerg/Protoss have spent multiple months with win rates as bad or worse than Terran are experiencing right now while Terran was enjoying 55+% win rates. Back then, the argument was "All the good players picked Terran" and "Zerg/Protoss players are just doing it wrong." But now that Terran is on the low end, it's the fucking end of the world. Funny how things go... | ||
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + jk looks like its back to Z>T>P>Z ? | ||
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
I can give you TvZ from the GSL up and downs, the GSL qualifiers, and the GSTL if that helps? There have been 112 games total played, Zerg have won 83 of them while Terran have won 29, giving Zergs about a 74% win rate. Oh goody!~ In my opinion as soon as infestors got the full-stop it was pretty much just a matter of time until zergs became the strongest race. The fact that blizzard nerfed the ghost for having too many roles it could fill means that the infestor should get nerfed as well, or at least change fungal. One infestor and good map awareness shuts down drops, infestors+army creates a combination that will stop enemy armies from retreating/microing or give the zerg army a free chance to escape. Infestors are viable for pretty much every situation ever, and fungal is so killer to terran armies since they can't micro out and the aoe that zerg can bring to bear when terran can't micro away means that it becomes a decidedly one-sided slaughter. In my opinion (and this mostly applies at the lower levels, although it happens more often than i would like to pro terrans) the power of the infestor creates engagements that are entirely dependent on how well the zerg can use his infestors, not on the talent of both players. Hit fungals, blings or ultras murder terran army, or vikings get wrecked and blords destroy the ground army. Ling/bling/muta was more fun for me to watch because splitting marines against blings and focusfiring blings and using the blings to hunt for marines, mutas to focusfire tanks etc was such an awesome dynamic to watch. Now its just... fungals? oops, there goes any chance of a favorable T engagement (assuming equal army sizes). Apologies if this is too much qq, just very frustrating to face zergs when they can just mass queen->infestor hivetech to win :| | ||
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CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr
544 Posts
On June 12 2012 13:44 Jermstuddog wrote: The Terran QQ in this thread is awesome. Zerg/Protoss have spent multiple months with win rates as bad or worse than Terran are experiencing right now while Terran was enjoying 55+% win rates. Back then, the argument was "All the good players picked Terran" and "Zerg/Protoss players are just doing it wrong." But now that Terran is on the low end, it's the fucking end of the world. Funny how things go... as bad as 25% from the absolute elite of their race obv they did. and they did lol zergs were finally figuring out 3rd, creep, and hive timing before the patch it wasnt necessary | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On June 12 2012 12:47 canikizu wrote: That is a one hit wonder, dude. Plays like that will never make it to main stream strategy, because if it got popular, people can figure out the timing, unit composition, strategies to kill it ez. You really think that if Bomber used that strat against Stephano right now, he could win again? I don't think so. Unless are you suggesting Terran should play more gimmicky strats like that? It's not gimmicky, it's fairly solid. I've played bio/raven or bio/shee (depending on what my opponent goes) for the last year now. You have no idea how many people messaged me about that game when they were like "dude, Bomber used your strat!" Of course, it's not my strat, it's just something I do, I just found it amusing it actually appeared for once. | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
The amount of Zerg and Protoss players with hurt egos in here gives me a good chuckle. I'm Zerg (though I did briefly play Terran) and even I realize this. | ||
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