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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 05 2012 18:35 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 18:32 VonDarkmore wrote:On June 05 2012 18:22 EtherealDeath wrote:
I can see the eapm in that game o.O
Lucifron APM 195 EAPM 110 Redundancy 43%
Spades APM 212 EAPM 91 Redundancy 56% Yeah I can see the same in SC2Gears but log onto Starcraft 2, and check I see 0 for both all game, is it my starcraft clients or is it a blizzard AI glitch or replay corrupt? Ah, same here. It's a NASL map though, so the same mechanism that hides the score screen and build order table might be the culprit for why SC2 shows no apm in-game.
I just went through a huge list trying to determine what would cause it, got to that pretty much at the end of the list realised it was a plausible idea, come here to say I might have realised the answer, and you already answered me haha thank you kindly
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On June 05 2012 18:55 mrtomjones wrote:
Has anyone analysed any of those replays he sent in? 100 replays. If he didn't cheat there then he doesnt cheat period. If he did then this thread should exist. Should be closed till then.
??
Thats silly.
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On June 05 2012 18:35 Chilling5pr33 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 18:31 LRObot wrote:On June 05 2012 17:38 GhostFiber wrote:
We wouldn't need threads like this if Blizzard had an active anti-cheat stance... just say'n.... Blizzard will never be able to keep SC2 a hack free game. What I'm more concerned with is the integrity of future online events and even some of the major LANs. This is more of the event organisers' responsibility rather than Blizzard's though they can always take a more active role. Online events can be dealt with something as simple as having a webcam focused on your monitor and/or being subject to more rigorous process monitoring. Ones like the accusations against Leenock and over the shoulder coaching can be easily remedied. When i play and my roomate gives me hints is that cheating for you guys? IF not what about if i were mid master and he is GM? Or in a online tournament where i can win 50$? And what about a online tournament where i can win 5000$? I think the line with over the shoulder coaching is pretty difficult to draw. Coaching should be allowed but when? Only between games?
Everything you listed is what I'd consider "cheating." Basically, anything external that's only partial to one player (hack, coaching, stream snipe) fall under this category, regardless of type of event.
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On June 05 2012 18:52 Defacer wrote:
TL should ask themselves: is this how Pro's and Teams should police themselves? Would TL allow one of their own players to undergo this level of scrutiny?
This is probably the best question, because I think we all know the answer. Personally I, like you am quite dissappointed by how TL mods have handled this. All it takes is a pro with a grudge(no idea if Illusion has a grudge, but my point is that it only takes one pro which might not like the accused) and you open the thread up again and throw Spades under the bus. You should give the team some time to go over those replays, Spades to get some time to put up a well written response to this accusation and most of all, fix the OP and remove all these incredibly stupid places where the OP says he thinks spades is doing something fishy, which is actually quite natural to all.
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On June 05 2012 18:57 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 18:52 Defacer wrote:
TL should ask themselves: is this how Pro's and Teams should police themselves? Would TL allow one of their own players to undergo this level of scrutiny?
This is probably the best question, because I think we all know the answer. Personally I, like you am quite dissappointed by how TL mods have handled this. All it takes is a pro with a grudge and you open the thread up again and throw Spades under the bus. You should give the team some time to go over those replays, Spades to get some time to put up a well written response to this accusation and most of all, fix the OP and remove all these incredibly stupid places where the OP says he thinks spades is doing something fishy, which is actually quite natural to all.
Even if they locked this thread it would just get restarted somewhere else. Locking a thread won't make the issue disappear.
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no concrete proof here, only inferences
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On June 05 2012 19:00 lost_artz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 18:57 Zarahtra wrote:On June 05 2012 18:52 Defacer wrote:
TL should ask themselves: is this how Pro's and Teams should police themselves? Would TL allow one of their own players to undergo this level of scrutiny?
This is probably the best question, because I think we all know the answer. Personally I, like you am quite dissappointed by how TL mods have handled this. All it takes is a pro with a grudge and you open the thread up again and throw Spades under the bus. You should give the team some time to go over those replays, Spades to get some time to put up a well written response to this accusation and most of all, fix the OP and remove all these incredibly stupid places where the OP says he thinks spades is doing something fishy, which is actually quite natural to all. Even if they locked this thread it would just get restarted somewhere else. Locking a thread won't make the issue disappear.
They can lock those threads too...
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On June 05 2012 18:31 LRObot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:38 GhostFiber wrote:
We wouldn't need threads like this if Blizzard had an active anti-cheat stance... just say'n.... Blizzard will never be able to keep SC2 a hack free game.
it's not obvious why my client needs to receive any information on what is happening deep inside the fog in the first place...
other games are maphack proof by design as they don't tell your client any more than it absolutely needs to know.
(sending some information on things just outside the player's vision is of course inevitable)
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^ Yeah. That's dumb. Why should TLs moderation filter the content for you? Don't you want to think on your own?
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On June 05 2012 19:00 lost_artz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 18:57 Zarahtra wrote:On June 05 2012 18:52 Defacer wrote:
TL should ask themselves: is this how Pro's and Teams should police themselves? Would TL allow one of their own players to undergo this level of scrutiny?
This is probably the best question, because I think we all know the answer. Personally I, like you am quite dissappointed by how TL mods have handled this. All it takes is a pro with a grudge and you open the thread up again and throw Spades under the bus. You should give the team some time to go over those replays, Spades to get some time to put up a well written response to this accusation and most of all, fix the OP and remove all these incredibly stupid places where the OP says he thinks spades is doing something fishy, which is actually quite natural to all. Even if they locked this thread it would just get restarted somewhere else. Locking a thread won't make the issue disappear.
Then let Reddit open it up. TL is the center hub for SC2, the impact of letting a thread like this run on TL is much greater than on other places, both because it (usually) has a less 4chan approach to topics aswell as it reaches a far greater audience. + Show Spoiler +TL is obviously able to mod however they like, but if they don't do it well, they do risk loosing members and respect.
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On June 05 2012 16:42 EtherealDeath wrote:Here is a post on SC2SEA on a method that was used to catch a person using camera lock: http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p=99788&postcount=557Edit - quick explanation of method. The camera lock sometimes doesn't just put no action. Instead it puts some fake actions in. Why it would do so I do not know. So, I looked for fake actions, which turned into a discovery of an action I believe to be physically impossible from a human using the interface.I decided to try this analysis on Spade's replays. Now I could not find any combinations of the Hotkey 1,2,3 signature, so at first I thought it meant it cleared him. But then, I found something weird. Recall in the OP that Spades has a 8 second window of camera stoppage in in the Antiga game at 11:02. Here are the actions from 11:02 to 11:10. Yes I do have the default real time setting in SC2gears changed to game time. Initially I was puzzled by what it was telling me until I realized I needed to change this setting. + Show Spoiler +11:02 Spades Select Starport (103d0), Deselect all
11:02 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:03 Spades Train Siege Tank
11:03 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:05 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:06 Spades Train SCV
11:06 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x11 (1029c,102a0,102a4,102ac,102d4,102dc,102f4,1035c,10430,1044c,104c4), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x11 (1029c,102a0,102a4,102ac,102d4,102f4,1035c,10430,1044c,104c4,10574), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x4 (1029c,102a4,102d4,10574), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x14 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE x2 (104e4,10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x15 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,1048c,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE (10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5 Now I can see the hotkey switching in action, even when it is really fast. Of note is the scv selection deselection. This is also present at the beginning of the game but this is normal. This is simply dragging a box, selecting all the visible scvs, and then deselecting them by clicking somewhere on the ground. So, for a moment you will see a red circle around the selected scvs in the replay, before they are deselected. In fact you can see this happen all throughout early game, and this is normal. I cannot see the red circle at all in the interval from 11:02 to 11:10, corresponding to this selection/deselection. I have stared at a twenty second chunk at each base intently over and over. The huge time window is so that I don't have to worry about looking at the timer. I am only trying to see that red circle pop up around an scv to show that it was selected. I cannot see this even at the slowest replay speed. He is either selecting and then deselecting them faster than I can imagine or something else is at play. So at the moment I suspect that these hotkey selections and unit selection/deselection may be what a camera locking program is inserting as false actions. Either that, or something is wrong with SC2's replay storage, or somehow Spades can select/deselect faster than I can imagine. Why do the hotkey selections not disappear instantly you might ask? Well, the way the engine would interpret it is to keep the hotkey selection until another hotkey is pressed, or something else is done, so it cannot possible disappear in a flash. The instant unit select/deselection is thus the red flag to me. If someone can explain this instantaneous selection/deselection please do. All other evidence aside, I have a hard time believing that a camera lock is not in play given this.
This is kind of the best hard evidence imo, should be added to "evidence list" or something...!?
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On June 05 2012 19:03 Jinsho wrote:
^ Yeah. That's dumb. Why should TLs moderation filter the content for you? Don't you want to think on your own?
and yet they locked the thread about choyas twitter responses just now
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On June 05 2012 18:57 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 18:52 Defacer wrote:
TL should ask themselves: is this how Pro's and Teams should police themselves? Would TL allow one of their own players to undergo this level of scrutiny?
This is probably the best question, because I think we all know the answer. Personally I, like you am quite dissappointed by how TL mods have handled this. All it takes is a pro with a grudge(no idea if Illusion has a grudge, but my point is that it only takes one pro which might not like the accused) and you open the thread up again and throw Spades under the bus. You should give the team some time to go over those replays, Spades to get some time to put up a well written response to this accusation and most of all, fix the OP and remove all these incredibly stupid places where the OP says he thinks spades is doing something fishy, which is actually quite natural to all.
The only problem is that in the current SC2 community, there are two major places where one can make a statement, TL and Reddit. As long as the topic is active on one of those two sites, the issue will never go away (if TL had closed the Destiny thread, he still would have had the same repercussions from the Reddit threads).
Similarly, as I've mentioned before, if someone from TL were to have similar accusations thrown against them, the number of people who actually would take the time to analyze the replays would increase exponentially. This is not a question of favorites, but rather that Spades is an easy target because very few people hold any previous opinion towards him and is the "map hacking pro" that people have been looking for in the past weeks.
On a final note, TL.net and TL are different enough that I'm confident the thread would have stayed open if it involved a TL player and similar circumstances occurred (ie. Another professional came out saying that the allegations are probably true). I hope that day never comes.
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On June 05 2012 19:04 Atoissen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 16:42 EtherealDeath wrote:Here is a post on SC2SEA on a method that was used to catch a person using camera lock: http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p=99788&postcount=557Edit - quick explanation of method. The camera lock sometimes doesn't just put no action. Instead it puts some fake actions in. Why it would do so I do not know. So, I looked for fake actions, which turned into a discovery of an action I believe to be physically impossible from a human using the interface.I decided to try this analysis on Spade's replays. Now I could not find any combinations of the Hotkey 1,2,3 signature, so at first I thought it meant it cleared him. But then, I found something weird. Recall in the OP that Spades has a 8 second window of camera stoppage in in the Antiga game at 11:02. Here are the actions from 11:02 to 11:10. Yes I do have the default real time setting in SC2gears changed to game time. Initially I was puzzled by what it was telling me until I realized I needed to change this setting. + Show Spoiler +11:02 Spades Select Starport (103d0), Deselect all
11:02 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:03 Spades Train Siege Tank
11:03 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:05 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:06 Spades Train SCV
11:06 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x11 (1029c,102a0,102a4,102ac,102d4,102dc,102f4,1035c,10430,1044c,104c4), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x11 (1029c,102a0,102a4,102ac,102d4,102f4,1035c,10430,1044c,104c4,10574), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x4 (1029c,102a4,102d4,10574), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x14 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE x2 (104e4,10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x15 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,1048c,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE (10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5 Now I can see the hotkey switching in action, even when it is really fast. Of note is the scv selection deselection. This is also present at the beginning of the game but this is normal. This is simply dragging a box, selecting all the visible scvs, and then deselecting them by clicking somewhere on the ground. So, for a moment you will see a red circle around the selected scvs in the replay, before they are deselected. In fact you can see this happen all throughout early game, and this is normal. I cannot see the red circle at all in the interval from 11:02 to 11:10, corresponding to this selection/deselection. I have stared at a twenty second chunk at each base intently over and over. The huge time window is so that I don't have to worry about looking at the timer. I am only trying to see that red circle pop up around an scv to show that it was selected. I cannot see this even at the slowest replay speed. He is either selecting and then deselecting them faster than I can imagine or something else is at play. So at the moment I suspect that these hotkey selections and unit selection/deselection may be what a camera locking program is inserting as false actions. Either that, or something is wrong with SC2's replay storage, or somehow Spades can select/deselect faster than I can imagine. Why do the hotkey selections not disappear instantly you might ask? Well, the way the engine would interpret it is to keep the hotkey selection until another hotkey is pressed, or something else is done, so it cannot possible disappear in a flash. The instant unit select/deselection is thus the red flag to me. If someone can explain this instantaneous selection/deselection please do. All other evidence aside, I have a hard time believing that a camera lock is not in play given this. This is kind of the best hard evidence imo, should be added to "evidence list" or something...!?
It was already disproved. The maker of that post already apologized for his error.
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On June 05 2012 19:04 Atoissen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 16:42 EtherealDeath wrote:Here is a post on SC2SEA on a method that was used to catch a person using camera lock: http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p=99788&postcount=557Edit - quick explanation of method. The camera lock sometimes doesn't just put no action. Instead it puts some fake actions in. Why it would do so I do not know. So, I looked for fake actions, which turned into a discovery of an action I believe to be physically impossible from a human using the interface.I decided to try this analysis on Spade's replays. Now I could not find any combinations of the Hotkey 1,2,3 signature, so at first I thought it meant it cleared him. But then, I found something weird. Recall in the OP that Spades has a 8 second window of camera stoppage in in the Antiga game at 11:02. Here are the actions from 11:02 to 11:10. Yes I do have the default real time setting in SC2gears changed to game time. Initially I was puzzled by what it was telling me until I realized I needed to change this setting. + Show Spoiler +11:02 Spades Select Starport (103d0), Deselect all
11:02 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:03 Spades Train Siege Tank
11:03 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:05 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:06 Spades Train SCV
11:06 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x11 (1029c,102a0,102a4,102ac,102d4,102dc,102f4,1035c,10430,1044c,104c4), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x11 (1029c,102a0,102a4,102ac,102d4,102f4,1035c,10430,1044c,104c4,10574), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x4 (1029c,102a4,102d4,10574), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x14 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE x2 (104e4,10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x15 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,1048c,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE (10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5 Now I can see the hotkey switching in action, even when it is really fast. Of note is the scv selection deselection. This is also present at the beginning of the game but this is normal. This is simply dragging a box, selecting all the visible scvs, and then deselecting them by clicking somewhere on the ground. So, for a moment you will see a red circle around the selected scvs in the replay, before they are deselected. In fact you can see this happen all throughout early game, and this is normal. I cannot see the red circle at all in the interval from 11:02 to 11:10, corresponding to this selection/deselection. I have stared at a twenty second chunk at each base intently over and over. The huge time window is so that I don't have to worry about looking at the timer. I am only trying to see that red circle pop up around an scv to show that it was selected. I cannot see this even at the slowest replay speed. He is either selecting and then deselecting them faster than I can imagine or something else is at play. So at the moment I suspect that these hotkey selections and unit selection/deselection may be what a camera locking program is inserting as false actions. Either that, or something is wrong with SC2's replay storage, or somehow Spades can select/deselect faster than I can imagine. Why do the hotkey selections not disappear instantly you might ask? Well, the way the engine would interpret it is to keep the hotkey selection until another hotkey is pressed, or something else is done, so it cannot possible disappear in a flash. The instant unit select/deselection is thus the red flag to me. If someone can explain this instantaneous selection/deselection please do. All other evidence aside, I have a hard time believing that a camera lock is not in play given this. This is kind of the best hard evidence imo, should be added to "evidence list" or something...!?
edit: ninjaed by koshi
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On June 05 2012 19:04 Atoissen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 16:42 EtherealDeath wrote:Here is a post on SC2SEA on a method that was used to catch a person using camera lock: http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p=99788&postcount=557Edit - quick explanation of method. The camera lock sometimes doesn't just put no action. Instead it puts some fake actions in. Why it would do so I do not know. So, I looked for fake actions, which turned into a discovery of an action I believe to be physically impossible from a human using the interface.I decided to try this analysis on Spade's replays. Now I could not find any combinations of the Hotkey 1,2,3 signature, so at first I thought it meant it cleared him. But then, I found something weird. Recall in the OP that Spades has a 8 second window of camera stoppage in in the Antiga game at 11:02. Here are the actions from 11:02 to 11:10. Yes I do have the default real time setting in SC2gears changed to game time. Initially I was puzzled by what it was telling me until I realized I needed to change this setting. + Show Spoiler +11:02 Spades Select Starport (103d0), Deselect all
11:02 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:03 Spades Train Siege Tank
11:03 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:05 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:06 Spades Train SCV
11:06 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x11 (1029c,102a0,102a4,102ac,102d4,102dc,102f4,1035c,10430,1044c,104c4), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x11 (1029c,102a0,102a4,102ac,102d4,102f4,1035c,10430,1044c,104c4,10574), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x4 (1029c,102a4,102d4,10574), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x14 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE x2 (104e4,10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x15 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,1048c,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE (10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5 Now I can see the hotkey switching in action, even when it is really fast. Of note is the scv selection deselection. This is also present at the beginning of the game but this is normal. This is simply dragging a box, selecting all the visible scvs, and then deselecting them by clicking somewhere on the ground. So, for a moment you will see a red circle around the selected scvs in the replay, before they are deselected. In fact you can see this happen all throughout early game, and this is normal. I cannot see the red circle at all in the interval from 11:02 to 11:10, corresponding to this selection/deselection. I have stared at a twenty second chunk at each base intently over and over. The huge time window is so that I don't have to worry about looking at the timer. I am only trying to see that red circle pop up around an scv to show that it was selected. I cannot see this even at the slowest replay speed. He is either selecting and then deselecting them faster than I can imagine or something else is at play. So at the moment I suspect that these hotkey selections and unit selection/deselection may be what a camera locking program is inserting as false actions. Either that, or something is wrong with SC2's replay storage, or somehow Spades can select/deselect faster than I can imagine. Why do the hotkey selections not disappear instantly you might ask? Well, the way the engine would interpret it is to keep the hotkey selection until another hotkey is pressed, or something else is done, so it cannot possible disappear in a flash. The instant unit select/deselection is thus the red flag to me. If someone can explain this instantaneous selection/deselection please do. All other evidence aside, I have a hard time believing that a camera lock is not in play given this. This is kind of the best hard evidence imo, should be added to "evidence list" or something...!?
Considering the guy who posted that said himself that he was wrong.. No, it should not be added there
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They dont warrant a thread. No-one cares about Koreans anyways. Of course they won't publically admit it even if they do streamcheat.
The guy I replied to said he wanted TL mods to look through the replays and edit the OP's accusations accoridng to truthfulness. What a bunch of nonsense.
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On June 05 2012 18:21 mTwTT1 wrote:
everyone wants to throw spades under the bus because its the easy thing to do but i feel like he still deserves a fair case.. i mean even fucking murderers have a defence team, why should this be any different? i formulated a few of my opinions based off of what i understood the most which is gameplay but i want to hear different views on the matter, u guys should start exploring different aspects/views so we can diversify our knowledge base
For this there should be a jury no? His team WW? Just a thought if we were going to go through some kind of process like this
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Edit: Ugh I'm slow responding *bushes*
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On June 05 2012 19:04 beatitudes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 19:03 Jinsho wrote:
^ Yeah. That's dumb. Why should TLs moderation filter the content for you? Don't you want to think on your own?
and yet they locked the thread about choyas twitter responses just now
That's because that thread had made a huge accusation and no evidence at all was presented. In this case, we have over 100 replays to look at if someone wanted to, so it isn't just a claim by a single poster about what is going on in Korea.
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EPT
