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Official statement by Snowbird: The brackets that were up for like 1min were not correct.
There will be adjustments because of schedule conflicts of some players (MLG, Dreamhack).
We will most likely post a final version of the brackets tomorrow. |
On June 01 2012 07:44 Orracle wrote:
Personally, I don't feel anyone deserves a seed. Players work their ass off just for a Code A spot. To give a player such as Thorizan or Stephano(who is a great player) a Code S seed just because they're foreigners is ridiculous.
In an ideal world, we wouldn't need to have seeds. But it is relatively easy for us to think, but it is often times very challenging for someone to suddenly pack up and move to Korea for several months, where they are away from friends, family and experience culture shock, and often cannot speak the language.
Few foreigners are willing to take the time to go to Korea for the Code A qualifiers, and sometimes even Code A itself. Why? Because of the costs far outweigh the reward for most progamers. You spend thousands of dollars on plane tickets to compete in a one-day qualifer, where if you are successful, you make Code A, where the largest prize possible (after 2 months of competition and assuming that one wins all 3 Bo3s) is less than 1000 USD. That usually won't even cover the cost of an international plane ticket these days.
Only when you hit Code S do the prize pools begin to become substantial. But when most foreign progamers are not willing to travel to Korea to participate in the Code A qualifiers or Code A, how will foreigners get to Code S. Unfortunately, GSL wants more global participation, since it does help the scene in the long run, but critically also increases viewership. Thus, seeds are given out.
Is it a bit ridiculous? Yes, but the seeds do try to address the issue of scarcity of foreigners in GSL, and it accomplishes that to some degree, even as it comes at the expense of the Korean players.
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On June 01 2012 04:45 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 04:34 agh39 wrote:On June 01 2012 04:15 ragz_gt wrote:On June 01 2012 03:37 NovemberstOrm wrote:
Thorzain deserves the code s just as much as Stephano or any other foreigner, and Violet is a very good choice he's gotten a lot better than he used to be. How does ThorZaIN deserve the spot as much as Stephano? Yes, he did win DH, but who did he beat besides Polt? Socke and Monster are nice, but not exactly code S level competition. And since then he literally lost all MU against Code A+ competition except one series against JYP and his LOLvT and one series against viOLet (I'm counting him as Code A+). Meanwhile, Stephano have taken sets off PartinG, Squitle, MC, Ganzi, Heart, Ryung at a fairly consistent rate. Ohh, I didn't know OZ was so low skilled that he wasn't qualified better than Code A. http://www.fnatic.com/news/9841/oz-loses-to-thorzain-in-mlg-prizefights.html Ah, I was not aware of that series over the weekend, good for him. But still, that's not really a consistent winning rate. He may do well, he may not, he may do well and still couldn't make out the group (half the Code S doesn't make out the first group), but it's really hard to argue ThorZaIN is equal to Stephano currently.
You need to learn to read before you come up and start complaining about Stephano being more deserving. Stephano is not in korea and has no plans of it until around August. Someone said this on page one dude. Stephano gets his seed when he wants it is the general consensus.
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On June 01 2012 08:04 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 07:44 Orracle wrote:
Personally, I don't feel anyone deserves a seed. Players work their ass off just for a Code A spot. To give a player such as Thorizan or Stephano(who is a great player) a Code S seed just because they're foreigners is ridiculous. In an ideal world, we wouldn't need to have seeds. But it is relatively easy for us to think, but it is often times very challenging for someone to suddenly pack up and move to Korea for several months, where they are away from friends, family and experience culture shock, and often cannot speak the language. Few foreigners are willing to take the time to go to Korea for the Code A qualifiers, and sometimes even Code A itself. Why? Because of the costs far outweigh the reward for most progamers. You spend thousands of dollars on plane tickets to compete in a one-day qualifer, where if you are successful, you make Code A, where the largest prize possible (after 2 months of competition and assuming that one wins all 3 Bo3s) is less than 1000 USD. That usually won't even cover the cost of an international plane ticket these days. Only when you hit Code S do the prize pools begin to become substantial. But when most foreign progamers are not willing to travel to Korea to participate in the Code A qualifiers or Code A, how will foreigners get to Code S. Unfortunately, GSL wants more global participation, since it does help the scene in the long run, but critically also increases viewership. Thus, seeds are given out. Is it a bit ridiculous? Yes, but the seeds do try to address the issue of scarcity of foreigners in GSL, and it accomplishes that to some degree, even as it comes at the expense of the Korean players.
This post so fantastically misses the entire point of Esports it's unreal.
Esports is an extension of marketing.
Players who are good enough for Code A will absolutely not be paying their way there. Their teams will. What their teams want is sponsorship exposure. Few things (aside from winning a tournament) provide better exposure than playing GSL. As a foreigner if you make Code A you're the only guy playing Code A on that day there's several weeks of hype and merely by qualifying/playing in Code A you hugely raise your own profile as a player (thus securing future tournament invites) and provide great exposure for your team.
Just look at Sase. Sase has pretty much no major results on LAN at all. He's beaten a few guys, made out of a few groups but that is it. HasuObs, Socke and Mana all have far better results on LAN than Sase but purely on the back of being in Korea and playing in Code A (and getting raped every time no less) he has a load of hype and is invited to tournaments like Red Bull and has one of the biggest fanbases/hype trains behind him.
If you're not Naniwa/Huk or Stephano you're not making much money from winning tournaments as a non Korean anyway you're making money from your stream and your team. Nothing will raise you worth to your team in this scene and massively boost your stream numbers like playing in GSL, even if it's just getting stomped in round 1 of Code A.
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On June 01 2012 07:40 kubiks wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 04:52 NOOBALOPSE wrote:On May 31 2012 15:21 shockaslim wrote:
The groups for GSL 2012 Season 3 were posted for a VERY brief moment. But I did catch a glimpse of who were in the groups......ThorZain and viOlet being the two that stuck out the most. Did anyone else catch this or know if it is set in stone? No surprise to me. I was expecting ViOlet, but I would like it if they gave LucifroN the seed instead of ThorZaIN. He's much better than ThorZaIN, has proved himself and has actually 4-0'ed ThorzaIN at some tournament, not sure which one. and another + is he has no weak matchups as far as I can tell. Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 05:36 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Violet deserves it, Thorzain definitely doesn't.
Dudes what do you have against thorzain ? No get 4-0' him "at some tournament" doesn't automatically make him terrible. He already went to korea and performed decently, won major championships, and did some major things in teramleague. Lucifron's achievements are quite weak in comparison, and even if thorzain seems in slump, I still go for the guy that already hold a championship (hi IMMVP  ). Thorzain was without contest the best foregin terran for at least a year (and probably still is, I don't follow enough the foreign scene to be sure), it seems logical he gets a spot in code S. Obviously if stephano was avalaible he would take thorzain spot but he can't so I'm really happy for thorzain  .
Violet won one of the most stacked foreign tournaments ever played at MLG Arena, he's placed well at so many LAN's this year and won IEM Brazil too.
Thorzain beat Polt in a best of five in a tournament full of foreigners and Korean B teamers and has done literally nothing else of note all year aside from bombing out of almost everything he's played in.
Stephano would have been deserving but obviously he declined. In his absence MMA should have got it. Or just had a playoff amongst the losing up/down players.
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On May 31 2012 22:57 jobber123rd wrote:Brief thoughts: - IIRC Fionn called Mvp's pick of Line immediately after Line qualified. Well played. - No surprise with Squirtle's pick. - If the groups hold, MKP dodged a 75% chance of drawing a Terran for his first matchup (see my mockup of the group draw tiers) - Again, if the groups hold, the seed choices are the best ones given the current criteria (international tournament performance) and Stephano sitting out this season. Beyond those two, the choices are a bit ugly IMO (either promoting someone who just failed at U&D, or giving a seed to someone who doesn't have the resutlts). - There's lots of reaction here about NaNiwa and NesTea, but it's pretty easy to imagine a scenario in which they wouldn't play each other. - It's nice to see GOM once again trying to accomodate players going to foreign tournaments around the time of the Round of 32.
mkp has a very very good TvT, i'd much rather him go up against a terran than a zerg any day
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so violet moved to america just to now go back to korean to play gsl o.O but rly nice i hope thorzain does well
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On June 01 2012 08:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 08:04 Bagration wrote:On June 01 2012 07:44 Orracle wrote:
Personally, I don't feel anyone deserves a seed. Players work their ass off just for a Code A spot. To give a player such as Thorizan or Stephano(who is a great player) a Code S seed just because they're foreigners is ridiculous. In an ideal world, we wouldn't need to have seeds. But it is relatively easy for us to think, but it is often times very challenging for someone to suddenly pack up and move to Korea for several months, where they are away from friends, family and experience culture shock, and often cannot speak the language. Few foreigners are willing to take the time to go to Korea for the Code A qualifiers, and sometimes even Code A itself. Why? Because of the costs far outweigh the reward for most progamers. You spend thousands of dollars on plane tickets to compete in a one-day qualifer, where if you are successful, you make Code A, where the largest prize possible (after 2 months of competition and assuming that one wins all 3 Bo3s) is less than 1000 USD. That usually won't even cover the cost of an international plane ticket these days. Only when you hit Code S do the prize pools begin to become substantial. But when most foreign progamers are not willing to travel to Korea to participate in the Code A qualifiers or Code A, how will foreigners get to Code S. Unfortunately, GSL wants more global participation, since it does help the scene in the long run, but critically also increases viewership. Thus, seeds are given out. Is it a bit ridiculous? Yes, but the seeds do try to address the issue of scarcity of foreigners in GSL, and it accomplishes that to some degree, even as it comes at the expense of the Korean players. This post so fantastically misses the entire point of Esports it's unreal. Esports is an extension of marketing. Players who are good enough for Code A will absolutely not be paying their way there. Their teams will. What their teams want is sponsorship exposure. Few things (aside from winning a tournament) provide better exposure than playing GSL. As a foreigner if you make Code A you're the only guy playing Code A on that day there's several weeks of hype and merely by qualifying/playing in Code A you hugely raise your own profile as a player (thus securing future tournament invites) and provide great exposure for your team. Just look at Sase. Sase has pretty much no major results on LAN at all. He's beaten a few guys, made out of a few groups but that is it. HasuObs, Socke and Mana all have far better results on LAN than Sase but purely on the back of being in Korea and playing in Code A (and getting raped every time no less) he has a load of hype and is invited to tournaments like Red Bull and has one of the biggest fanbases/hype trains behind him. If you're not Naniwa/Huk or Stephano you're not making much money from winning tournaments as a non Korean anyway you're making money from your stream and your team. Nothing will raise you worth to your team in this scene and massively boost your stream numbers like playing in GSL, even if it's just getting stomped in round 1 of Code A.
Until you have information on how much money a contract to someone who can finish top 8 or 16 in semi major tournaments is worth you can not make this assertion. It is more than likely that most players will make more money outside of Korea then they will be paid to be in Korea.
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I understand Violet, but Thorzain...he is good but not THAT good...
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On June 01 2012 08:59 An2quamaraN wrote:
I understand Violet, but Thorzain...he is good but not THAT good...
Of the performances who warranted an invite to code S, his was one of the better ones, he has not been given an opportunity before in code S and so has not fallen out(Like MMA recently did, as he is the only other name I could throw out there for someone who deserves the seed), and he brings with him a ton of fans, especially if he does well. He is also one of the few who have been considered in the top foreigner talk since Idra left GSL and slumped(Huk,Naniwa,Stephano,Thorzain) are the names I remember being mentioned at one point or the other. Dude deserves a shot to prove himself. Others do to but its his turn I guess 
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On June 01 2012 05:36 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Violet deserves it, Thorzain definitely doesn't.
Shame Stephano didn't accept. Although I don't like him I'd be interested to see how he did in a GSL format.
How is winning Dreamhack over a couple of Koreans including Code S runner-up Genius, foreign tournament prizepool bandit Polt and Code S foreigner Naniwa, not deserving of a Code S spot?
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On June 01 2012 10:48 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 05:36 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Violet deserves it, Thorzain definitely doesn't.
Shame Stephano didn't accept. Although I don't like him I'd be interested to see how he did in a GSL format.
How is winning Dreamhack over a couple of Koreans including Code S runner-up Genius, foreign tournament prizepool bandit Polt and Code S foreigner Naniwa, not deserving of a Code S spot?
He only played one of those players. He beat down a bunch of foreigners, a Code B Korean and Polt. He is 100% undeserving.
On June 01 2012 08:49 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 08:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 01 2012 08:04 Bagration wrote:On June 01 2012 07:44 Orracle wrote:
Personally, I don't feel anyone deserves a seed. Players work their ass off just for a Code A spot. To give a player such as Thorizan or Stephano(who is a great player) a Code S seed just because they're foreigners is ridiculous. In an ideal world, we wouldn't need to have seeds. But it is relatively easy for us to think, but it is often times very challenging for someone to suddenly pack up and move to Korea for several months, where they are away from friends, family and experience culture shock, and often cannot speak the language. Few foreigners are willing to take the time to go to Korea for the Code A qualifiers, and sometimes even Code A itself. Why? Because of the costs far outweigh the reward for most progamers. You spend thousands of dollars on plane tickets to compete in a one-day qualifer, where if you are successful, you make Code A, where the largest prize possible (after 2 months of competition and assuming that one wins all 3 Bo3s) is less than 1000 USD. That usually won't even cover the cost of an international plane ticket these days. Only when you hit Code S do the prize pools begin to become substantial. But when most foreign progamers are not willing to travel to Korea to participate in the Code A qualifiers or Code A, how will foreigners get to Code S. Unfortunately, GSL wants more global participation, since it does help the scene in the long run, but critically also increases viewership. Thus, seeds are given out. Is it a bit ridiculous? Yes, but the seeds do try to address the issue of scarcity of foreigners in GSL, and it accomplishes that to some degree, even as it comes at the expense of the Korean players. This post so fantastically misses the entire point of Esports it's unreal. Esports is an extension of marketing. Players who are good enough for Code A will absolutely not be paying their way there. Their teams will. What their teams want is sponsorship exposure. Few things (aside from winning a tournament) provide better exposure than playing GSL. As a foreigner if you make Code A you're the only guy playing Code A on that day there's several weeks of hype and merely by qualifying/playing in Code A you hugely raise your own profile as a player (thus securing future tournament invites) and provide great exposure for your team. Just look at Sase. Sase has pretty much no major results on LAN at all. He's beaten a few guys, made out of a few groups but that is it. HasuObs, Socke and Mana all have far better results on LAN than Sase but purely on the back of being in Korea and playing in Code A (and getting raped every time no less) he has a load of hype and is invited to tournaments like Red Bull and has one of the biggest fanbases/hype trains behind him. If you're not Naniwa/Huk or Stephano you're not making much money from winning tournaments as a non Korean anyway you're making money from your stream and your team. Nothing will raise you worth to your team in this scene and massively boost your stream numbers like playing in GSL, even if it's just getting stomped in round 1 of Code A. Until you have information on how much money a contract to someone who can finish top 8 or 16 in semi major tournaments is worth you can not make this assertion. It is more than likely that most players will make more money outside of Korea then they will be paid to be in Korea.
You really do have no idea how this scene works.
(Hint: 98% of professional player don't make most of their money from prize money).
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sick cant wait to see tzain in code S
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On June 01 2012 10:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 10:48 pdd wrote:On June 01 2012 05:36 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Violet deserves it, Thorzain definitely doesn't.
Shame Stephano didn't accept. Although I don't like him I'd be interested to see how he did in a GSL format.
How is winning Dreamhack over a couple of Koreans including Code S runner-up Genius, foreign tournament prizepool bandit Polt and Code S foreigner Naniwa, not deserving of a Code S spot? He only played one of those players. He beat down a bunch of foreigners, a Code B Korean and Polt. He is 100% undeserving.
And yet he won the tournament when the others didn't. We're not talking about individual head-to-head. We're talking about actually winning the championships.
Don't forget that DRG lost to Genius in the group stages of the Code S he won and Mvp lost to Ryung and HerO in the Code S he won. If we're going to consider individual head-to-head than DRG and Mvp's Code S championships should be questioned as well.
We're not talking about whether or not he is better than other players or not. We're talking about qualifications BASED on GOM's own criteria for Code S seeds. Point is the seeds are given on international tournament performances (+ perhaps a bit more). Thorzain fits that criteria perfectly. Violet also fits that criteria perfectly.
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On June 01 2012 10:59 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 10:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 01 2012 10:48 pdd wrote:On June 01 2012 05:36 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Violet deserves it, Thorzain definitely doesn't.
Shame Stephano didn't accept. Although I don't like him I'd be interested to see how he did in a GSL format.
How is winning Dreamhack over a couple of Koreans including Code S runner-up Genius, foreign tournament prizepool bandit Polt and Code S foreigner Naniwa, not deserving of a Code S spot? He only played one of those players. He beat down a bunch of foreigners, a Code B Korean and Polt. He is 100% undeserving. And yet he won the tournament when the others didn't. We're not talking about individual head-to-head. We're talking about actually winning the championships.
The Championship itself did not have a player pool to make it prestigious enough to deserve an invite to Code S, especially coupled with the fact that Thorzain has been awful in 2012 outside of that Dreamhack.
Don't forget that DRG lost to Genius in the group stages of the Code S he won and Mvp lost to Ryung and HerO in the Code S he won.
What does this have to do with anything?
We're not talking about whether or not he is better than other players or not. We're talking about qualifications BASED on GOM's own criteria for Code S seeds. Point is the seeds are given on international tournament performances (+ perhaps a bit more). Thorzain fits that criteria perfectly. Violet also fits that criteria perfectly.
Well that's are meaningless point as GOM don't have a criteria, they will invite whoever the fuck they want. Hence why they invited Sen who hadn't done anything worthwhile in months and months.
Violet not only won a far, far harder to win tournament he also won IEM Brazil and has placed well in countless tournaments this year. Where as Thorzain hasn't done anything at all of note aside from at Dreamhack, where we've established he beat one player who is Code S level.
At least Naniwa has beaten a shed load of Code S guys at foreign LAN's to 'earn' it.
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On May 31 2012 15:42 opterown wrote:
whew mkp might not end up in that ugly group haha i am glad it is wrong
would be an awful group for MKP, but an actually decent one for Oz.
Though by the looks of it it looks like one of the death groups, but Oz has just scary PvZ, he can take it
ThorZain might deserve a seed, but doubt he can take out Squirtle and Gumiho.
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On June 01 2012 13:59 desRow wrote:
Any updates on this ?
You're the one in Korea, you tell us
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On June 01 2012 11:04 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 10:59 pdd wrote:On June 01 2012 10:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 01 2012 10:48 pdd wrote:On June 01 2012 05:36 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Violet deserves it, Thorzain definitely doesn't.
Shame Stephano didn't accept. Although I don't like him I'd be interested to see how he did in a GSL format.
How is winning Dreamhack over a couple of Koreans including Code S runner-up Genius, foreign tournament prizepool bandit Polt and Code S foreigner Naniwa, not deserving of a Code S spot? He only played one of those players. He beat down a bunch of foreigners, a Code B Korean and Polt. He is 100% undeserving. And yet he won the tournament when the others didn't. We're not talking about individual head-to-head. We're talking about actually winning the championships. The Championship itself did not have a player pool to make it prestigious enough to deserve an invite to Code S, especially coupled with the fact that Thorzain has been awful in 2012 outside of that Dreamhack. Show nested quote +
Don't forget that DRG lost to Genius in the group stages of the Code S he won and Mvp lost to Ryung and HerO in the Code S he won.
What does this have to do with anything? Show nested quote +
We're not talking about whether or not he is better than other players or not. We're talking about qualifications BASED on GOM's own criteria for Code S seeds. Point is the seeds are given on international tournament performances (+ perhaps a bit more). Thorzain fits that criteria perfectly. Violet also fits that criteria perfectly.
Well that's are meaningless point as GOM don't have a criteria, they will invite whoever the fuck they want. Hence why they invited Sen who hadn't done anything worthwhile in months and months. Violet not only won a far, far harder to win tournament he also won IEM Brazil and has placed well in countless tournaments this year. Where as Thorzain hasn't done anything at all of note aside from at Dreamhack, where we've established he beat one player who is Code S level. At least Naniwa has beaten a shed load of Code S guys at foreign LAN's to 'earn' it.
Naniwa, Puma, Polt, Genius, Monster, Hyun. Sase, socke, Ret, TLO, Nericho. Not a bad field. Very hard to win. More than one code S player. Thorzain deserves the shot.
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where dem brackets snowbird? >_>
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/tDc1O.png)
