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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody.
Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence. |
On June 21 2012 18:37 Get.Midikem wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 17:56 Clarity_nl wrote:On June 21 2012 08:54 Bellazuk wrote:On June 21 2012 07:22 Clarity_nl wrote:On June 21 2012 07:18 Bellazuk wrote:On June 21 2012 07:00 Clarity_nl wrote:On June 21 2012 05:07 Catatonic wrote:On June 21 2012 03:33 Clarity_nl wrote:
Hey guys I have a relevant question:
Do people really meet hackers on ladder on a regular basis? I play mid-masters on EU and I don't think I've met more than one, some guy that 2gated me on a 4 player map without scouting my base first, but seriously....
Do you guys think people are just looking for exuses as to why they're not improving? I'm not saying hackers don't exist but they're so rare they don't affect me at all.
I understand if there is a well-known gm out there possibly hacking you want to get to the bottom of it, but am I the only one in master league fortunate enough to not get a hacker "1 out of 4 games"??? 1 out of 4 is still a significant amount though that's 25% of your games that you pretty autolose unless they're idiots which if they're in masters I doubt they are. With that knowledge your winrate pretty much is locked at best at 75% but if you win maybe half your games you rate of winning is well below 50% which just isn't exceptable so we as a community should be doing everything in our power to get these hackers removed from the game no matter what their level is and this laid back rather lazy who cares attitude of yours if followed would only create a surge of hackers on every level rather then rooting them out. 1 out of 4 is still a very bad percentage and I don't know how people can think it isn't. You misunderstand me, I'm saying I rarely ever run into hackers. Yet a lot of people claim they run into them consistently. Do I simply not watch closely enough/care enough about this, or are people just jumping to conclusions and looking to blame their losses on something not in their hands (other than balance, for once). My question is, did hack whining just become the new balance whining overnight? People used to produce observers, people used to scout 3rd, 4th , 5 base, people used to scout zerg tech after lair, people used to get naga towers, people used to get some map vision . Now, they blind counter perfectly, always take the right path for their army to face yours, never get caught by any surprise build ( no scout ) . You can say , this guy is not hacking he isnt looking in the fog of war or any sort of obvious process. Sure but, he takes decisions, he moves his army, he deny bases, all based on no scout and perfect timing and intuition witch none of them were doing like 2 months ago and any protoss high level produce obs, any terran scan when they move out but when i play maphackers they don't ever do that and always position perfectly and never get surprised of anything. What level are you playing at and could you point out to me two or more hackers in the last 50 games you have played? I don't have this problem at all in masters EU. I'm playing na masters, and I have replays but i lost faith reporting player since we reported redz (10 + ppl) with 5-6 blantant replays and hes still playing after like 3 weeks. So... the answer is no? To make it easier on you, just upload your last 50 replays and I will go through all of them carefully. I swear this is all in people's heads, and though I wouldn't like to get proven wrong, I'd like to know the truth. I'm not sure which one would be more saddening. The fact that everyone is encountering maphackers on a consistent basis, or the fact that everyone all of a sudden claims to run into maphackers on a consistent basis after threads like this pops up. I mean maybe I'm naive, but this looks like flocking to me. Everyone can name that one time they played against an obvious cheater who 2gated him on a 4player map without scouting, but honestly.... that's the only example I can come up with from my own replays. When i noticed this thread i started to go through my replays and i was suppriced how many obvious maphackers i noticed. Look with their vision on. And u will find more.
I did look, I found none.
Even if I did find some I never felt like watching a replay after a game because my opponent was maphacking and therefore I lost unfairly. So nothing changes.
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Maybe it's because I'm silver I don't get it, but I see a lot of posts from you guys about how a hacker is obvious in the replay if he's checking out the map through the fog of war, but... if i send a drone to scout on 1 1v1 map, i send it to the opponent's minerals. for that i need to use the map. If i want precise positioning when sending units, i put the screen on the area. even if i don't i still put the screen on the area, because the minimap is small, and i don't automatically know where everything goes. I check the enemy's base in FOW if i scouted it to see if i missed any base in my first look, etc. I can understand how a player checking the FOW when u send units out or something is an obvious tell, but otherwise what's the problem with checking through FOW?
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On June 21 2012 18:57 sangemaru wrote:
Maybe it's because I'm silver I don't get it, but I see a lot of posts from you guys about how a hacker is obvious in the replay if he's checking out the map through the fog of war, but... if i send a drone to scout on 1 1v1 map, i send it to the opponent's minerals. for that i need to use the map. If i want precise positioning when sending units, i put the screen on the area. even if i don't i still put the screen on the area, because the minimap is small, and i don't automatically know where everything goes. I check the enemy's base in FOW if i scouted it to see if i missed any base in my first look, etc. I can understand how a player checking the FOW when u send units out or something is an obvious tell, but otherwise what's the problem with checking through FOW?
Part of the difference is because this thread trying to keep maphackers out of Master/GM, and at that level, the vast majority of players will not shift their whole screen just to move a drone/scv/probe to scout the different locations, which they can instead do more efficiently via the minimap.
In addition to this, lots of hacking players will look at things in the game that they haven't scouted. For instance, if I wall off my base before my opponent can get a probe in and then start building a bunch more barracks, the hackers will put their screen over my base (and if I check in the replay they should just be seeing the terrain of the map) and obviously must see what is going on, because they then react to that. No pro player sits on top of the enemy base checking out the terrain.
Note: This is different from what pro's sometimes do if they sneak a ling into the opponents base, and it sees a few buildings before dying, so they put their screen on the opponents base for a second or two to have a look at the information they just got (like what buildings they scouted). What hackers do is either scroll over without that initial scout, or spend way too long looking at what should just be a "oh they have a baneling nest now" check because they are busy checking the upgrade progress on various buildings or something like that.
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On June 21 2012 19:06 NDDseer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 18:57 sangemaru wrote:
Maybe it's because I'm silver I don't get it, but I see a lot of posts from you guys about how a hacker is obvious in the replay if he's checking out the map through the fog of war, but... if i send a drone to scout on 1 1v1 map, i send it to the opponent's minerals. for that i need to use the map. If i want precise positioning when sending units, i put the screen on the area. even if i don't i still put the screen on the area, because the minimap is small, and i don't automatically know where everything goes. I check the enemy's base in FOW if i scouted it to see if i missed any base in my first look, etc. I can understand how a player checking the FOW when u send units out or something is an obvious tell, but otherwise what's the problem with checking through FOW? Part of the difference is because this thread trying to keep maphackers out of Master/GM, and at that level, the vast majority of players will not shift their whole screen just to move a drone/scv/probe to scout the different locations, which they can instead do more efficiently via the minimap.
I know you said vast majority, which implies exceptions, but I still want to point out that I always look at the base with my scouting drone before clicking there. And as I'm scouting with a runby ling or something, 90% of my screentime will be on that ling, I can macro without looking at my base.
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On June 21 2012 19:06 NDDseer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 18:57 sangemaru wrote:
Maybe it's because I'm silver I don't get it, but I see a lot of posts from you guys about how a hacker is obvious in the replay if he's checking out the map through the fog of war, but... if i send a drone to scout on 1 1v1 map, i send it to the opponent's minerals. for that i need to use the map. If i want precise positioning when sending units, i put the screen on the area. even if i don't i still put the screen on the area, because the minimap is small, and i don't automatically know where everything goes. I check the enemy's base in FOW if i scouted it to see if i missed any base in my first look, etc. I can understand how a player checking the FOW when u send units out or something is an obvious tell, but otherwise what's the problem with checking through FOW? Part of the difference is because this thread trying to keep maphackers out of Master/GM, and at that level, the vast majority of players will not shift their whole screen just to move a drone/scv/probe to scout the different locations, which they can instead do more efficiently via the minimap. In addition to this, lots of hacking players will look at things in the game that they haven't scouted. For instance, if I wall off my base before my opponent can get a probe in and then start building a bunch more barracks, the hackers will put their screen over my base (and if I check in the replay they should just be seeing the terrain of the map) and obviously must see what is going on, because they then react to that. No pro player sits on top of the enemy base checking out the terrain. Note: This is different from what pro's sometimes do if they sneak a ling into the opponents base, and it sees a few buildings before dying, so they put their screen on the opponents base for a second or two to have a look at the information they just got (like what buildings they scouted). What hackers do is either scroll over without that initial scout, or spend way too long looking at what should just be a "oh they have a baneling nest now" check because they are busy checking the upgrade progress on various buildings or something like that.
well these are only the really stupid hackers since the maphack has a production tab aswell. thats why it is so hard to fin all the maphackers. but well at least we can find the dumb ones with this method ...
i also tried to google the hack to see how easy you can get to it (and sadly its so stupidly easy that even my grandma could find, install and use it). and also someone in their forum wrote that there is no reason to ever look into the fog of war since you see everything on the minimap aswell and also have the production tab showing you what build he plays
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On June 20 2012 16:45 HenryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 16:38 StarcraftWonders wrote:On June 20 2012 12:21 SCTerran22 wrote:
From what i've seen, Hendralisk plays fishy, i've played him before and he's always countered my every build, i have been told by sources who develop the hack that hendralisk is on a list o buyers of this maphack, please clarify on this wanna see something weird? Ask for his past 15 zvz games :D You're welcome Hm I'm glad I checked this thread before going to sleep. Here you are troll #2, pick any one of these. I'm assuming you want to analyze..? http://imgur.com/is1g4It's funny because I basically only do 1 thing on ladder for zvz o__O
Upload all 10-15 to drop.sc please.
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On June 21 2012 22:01 StarcraftWonders wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 16:45 HenryZ wrote:On June 20 2012 16:38 StarcraftWonders wrote:On June 20 2012 12:21 SCTerran22 wrote:
From what i've seen, Hendralisk plays fishy, i've played him before and he's always countered my every build, i have been told by sources who develop the hack that hendralisk is on a list o buyers of this maphack, please clarify on this wanna see something weird? Ask for his past 15 zvz games :D You're welcome Hm I'm glad I checked this thread before going to sleep. Here you are troll #2, pick any one of these. I'm assuming you want to analyze..? http://imgur.com/is1g4It's funny because I basically only do 1 thing on ladder for zvz o__O Upload all 10-15 to drop.sc please.
oh you've got to be kidding me, accusing with no evidence and putting the burden of proof on the accused?
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On June 21 2012 22:37 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 22:01 StarcraftWonders wrote:On June 20 2012 16:45 HenryZ wrote:On June 20 2012 16:38 StarcraftWonders wrote:On June 20 2012 12:21 SCTerran22 wrote:
From what i've seen, Hendralisk plays fishy, i've played him before and he's always countered my every build, i have been told by sources who develop the hack that hendralisk is on a list o buyers of this maphack, please clarify on this wanna see something weird? Ask for his past 15 zvz games :D You're welcome Hm I'm glad I checked this thread before going to sleep. Here you are troll #2, pick any one of these. I'm assuming you want to analyze..? http://imgur.com/is1g4It's funny because I basically only do 1 thing on ladder for zvz o__O Upload all 10-15 to drop.sc please. oh you've got to be kidding me, accusing with no evidence and putting the burden of proof on the accused?
Big ol' witchhunt.
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I'm currently only playing cups... laddering has become a farce. In Masters you get have a 1:10 maphacker ratio which is ridiculous high. And I don't talk about the guys who fake scout, no 10% are so extremely obvious and never get banned. 4-5 months ago we got almost no cheaters and now, thanks to the publicity, everybody knows that you won't be banned for using external maphack.
On the other hand I've been called maphacker too. So what can we do? I don't think we shouldn't start witch hunts. We should put the pressure on Blizzard to implement an anti-cheating system which makes it harder to access the information from memory.
Calling out maphackers is fine, but it can't be the ultima ratio. Blizzard should be able to identify with a very high accuracy the access to memory either by scanning the PIDs or hooking the API calls. The first would require rather huge changes in the privacy agreement but to be honest, even Facebook will know more about you than Blizzard by scanning the active processes.
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On June 16 2012 10:01 ZweiGaming wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 05:54 ibo422 wrote:
Anyone still bothering to report those to blizzard? EU seems infected either, just played 3 of 'em.. -__- I have : http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/5760197115I do post one of these once in a while once enough replays are collected about the accused.
Thanks for the effort man!
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On June 22 2012 00:19 xbehemoth wrote:
I'm currently only playing cups... laddering has become a farce. In Masters you get have a 1:10 maphacker ratio which is ridiculous high. And I don't talk about the guys who fake scout, no 10% are so extremely obvious and never get banned. 4-5 months ago we got almost no cheaters and now, thanks to the publicity, everybody knows that you won't be banned for using external maphack.
On the other hand I've been called maphacker too. So what can we do? I don't think we shouldn't start witch hunts. We should put the pressure on Blizzard to implement an anti-cheating system which makes it harder to access the information from memory.
Calling out maphackers is fine, but it can't be the ultima ratio. Blizzard should be able to identify with a very high accuracy the access to memory either by scanning the PIDs or hooking the API calls. The first would require rather huge changes in the privacy agreement but to be honest, even Facebook will know more about you than Blizzard by scanning the active processes.
I must be playing on some allternate universe ladder since I don't have any issues.... wtf....
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honestly it is starting to feel like people are finding excuses for blaming hacking when they lose instead of actually just admit that they lost the game, in most games some fishy thing might happend, just because of random happnings or "starsence", i haven't had much problems on ladder with hackers
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Haha, this is so similar to WarCraft III, where everybody tried the same, when the amount of Hackers increased. Sadly, all your efforts will hardly be enough to stop people who are willing to throw out 50$ for a new copy of StarCraft II. Oh, and WarCrafts retail price by then was around 15$ as I recall..
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On June 21 2012 18:57 sangemaru wrote:
Maybe it's because I'm silver I don't get it, but I see a lot of posts from you guys about how a hacker is obvious in the replay if he's checking out the map through the fog of war, but... if i send a drone to scout on 1 1v1 map, i send it to the opponent's minerals. for that i need to use the map. If i want precise positioning when sending units, i put the screen on the area. even if i don't i still put the screen on the area, because the minimap is small, and i don't automatically know where everything goes. I check the enemy's base in FOW if i scouted it to see if i missed any base in my first look, etc. I can understand how a player checking the FOW when u send units out or something is an obvious tell, but otherwise what's the problem with checking through FOW?
It's actually impossible to identify a maphacker below masters unless he wants to get caught, due to the fact that most of the stuff going on in lower leagues is completely random and can only rarely be attributed to cheating.
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I don't understand Blizzard for goodness sakes.
THEY KNOW about hackers by us providing conclusive proof.
Especially they should know HRGZack after they cancelled his invitation because of hacking.
However, they didn't do anything about him or the others.
Seriously blizzard, do your job.
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On June 21 2012 22:01 StarcraftWonders wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 16:45 HenryZ wrote:On June 20 2012 16:38 StarcraftWonders wrote:On June 20 2012 12:21 SCTerran22 wrote:
From what i've seen, Hendralisk plays fishy, i've played him before and he's always countered my every build, i have been told by sources who develop the hack that hendralisk is on a list o buyers of this maphack, please clarify on this wanna see something weird? Ask for his past 15 zvz games :D You're welcome Hm I'm glad I checked this thread before going to sleep. Here you are troll #2, pick any one of these. I'm assuming you want to analyze..? http://imgur.com/is1g4It's funny because I basically only do 1 thing on ladder for zvz o__O Upload all 10-15 to drop.sc please.
who are you? lmao. Everyone is verifying hendra as being legit and you're the only one egging this on. <15 post acc. Come on.
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Guess its time for ICCup to start up the sc2 ladder and get a anti-hack launcher rolling.
This is just the same way Brood War was when hacks were rampant on the Blizzard ladder and winbotting took over, then you had WGTour step in and for awhile it was alright until hacks started rolling in on there. Then we come to PGT which was tremendous but still had issues with hacks. However you would have the proof + admins reviewing and then banning and returning points, then ICCup was the same means.
Start a petition for ICCup SC2 Ladder gogo~
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On June 21 2012 02:53 TheFlock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 02:39 Monochromatic wrote:
Someone should download the latest hacking software so we can go and know for certain what a hacker looks like and what he sees. That way we can find much more conclusive evidence. If you want an example, In the beginning of this thread there is a video of impa hacking while he streamed. It shows you what his map vision looks like and how he can see the production and supply/minerals/gas for both players. Were you looking for something else? Edit: NVM, can't find that video anymore, maybe it was taken down. Hmmm it was a good video showing how the MH works. I agree that it could be a good idea to have someone who downloaded the hacks to make videos of how they actually work and what it looks like, in order to inform others and make hackers easier to spot. Have considered doing it myself but I only have one account that I don't want anything bad to happen to. Plus I don't think any of these high level players would do it because just by having the hack it may put suspicion on them using it for laddering too. For what we can see in replays and on Impa's stream, we have a pretty good idea of how to spot them, the hard part is figuring out how to get them to leave and stop fucking up the highest levels of the ladder. Also, I know this is based on the American server, but I've always wondered about the Korean server too. If it is as easy as it seems to get the hacks, could the Korean server be infested as well? Or does needing to use an social security number to play in korea have anything to do with it?
Honestly I think this would just advertise the hack and how powerful it is. Its only going tot tempt more people to use it instead of educating ignorant people about it. The best attitude i've seen was from my online practice partner when I told him I ran into a map hacker. He didn't know that they exsisted, I started to tell them what they were capable of and he told me he didn't wanna know. To him ignorance was bliss. I understand this isn't completely true but if you aren't careful a sense of paranoia will take over and suddenly you are suspicious of everyone that does something "fishy".
This is a terrible attitude on my part but what is discovering new map hackers due to knowledge of how to spot them really going to change anything? What has it done for us so far?
Of course we need to stamp out cheaters from our community but I think its a slippery slope to a certain extent.
My 2 cents. Prolly not worth that much even 
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I dont understand how hard it is for blizzard employees to google some hacks, download them and then update warden...
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Part of the difference is because this thread trying to keep maphackers out of Master/GM, and at that level, the vast majority of players will not shift their whole screen just to move a drone/scv/probe to scout the different locations, which they can instead do more efficiently via the minimap.
Funny logic there, since all I play is high masters and low GM and I don't use the minimap to scout. I click and look in fog of war to shift click my unit pathing so it's exact.
And all you people making up random fucking figures seriously need to stop. 1 in 4. 1 in 10. It's a joke. Prove it. Show a spread of 50 games where you played 5 hackers. Show 20 games where you played 5 hackers. Stop making up stupid fucking figures. It's so aggravating reading peoples made up win percentages, and number of hackers they play.
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EPT
