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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody.
Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence. |
On April 14 2015 02:28 InDLegacy wrote:
Jesus Christ Avilo. When are you going to stop obsessing over Winter? Every single time you bring something up you have questionable evidence at the best. Just what the hell are you trying to accomplish with all this?
Grow up already and start making your name, avilo, about you. Not about Winter.
A) Do not post in this thread if it's not about the evidence.
B) I always in the past have done my 100% best to never mention or bring up anything to do with winter to not give him attention.
Only reason i have in this thread is because i felt the evidence was incredibly strong and some of it very blatant. Otherwise i would not have made the posts in the first place.
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On April 13 2015 17:59 TheWaldo wrote:
So what is it that he's doing? Does he have 'a script that rallies to the closest unit in the fog of war', does he have 'a minimap overlay showing him where units are in the fog of war' or does he use 'a screen locker that hides when he is looking into fog of war'? I look at all the evidence and it's constantly jumping between these three theories.
Seeing as both the 'script' and the 'screen lock' theory are actually impossible to hide when streaming your games, I conclude that you willfully include 'evidence' you *know* is impossible/wrong. To me it looks like you've built up a big list of 'clues' that are all easily explained by themselves, but look intimidating to others when piled on a list like this. Most confirmed hacking replays in here need only a few lines of explanation to assert without doubt that the person is hacking, but in this case every replay needs a massive essay full of seemingly tiny things that are all coincidental. Quality over quantity, please.
I mean, the replay analysis vs HuK had 'clues' every 15 seconds then suddenly a gap of 3 minutes you just gloss over. Did he suddenly stop hacking? No; in those 3 minutes there was plenty of evidence that he was playing normally, so that bit isn't mentioned at all. If you take out the obvious coincidences and add in all the bits where Winter makes mistakes that disprove the hacking theory, I'm not sure whether there'll be anything left. I've read about that stasis field he supposedly manoeuvres around in the game vs HuK 4 times in your evidence, but never is it mentioned that he actually loses the game by walking right into said stasis field.
So please, narrow down in what way you think he's cheating instead of hovering between 3 different theories all the time (several of which being impossible) and stop pretending that 'at this point in time he looked at his minimap when he had no reason to!' is a solid argument to use against a GM level player.
Wrong stasis ward. Nice 14 post account. It's this stasis ward:
http://imgur.com/a/QLP9o
Once again proving, there are a ton of people in here that are either blatant winter fanbois, or haters, or avilo fanbois, or haters and aren't actually looking at the data provided.
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On April 14 2015 02:11 avilo wrote:
I'm assuming it shows cloaked unit on mini-map too?
Yes avilo, it shows cloaked units also, it shows every unit.
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I think the stasis ward on top of everything else is pretty damning to be honest, I understand Avilo is viewed as the Cry Wolf type, I personally haven't had any good run ins with avilo either on ladder, but I think he is right here.
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So, does anyone know for sure that there are available hacks for LotV already? AFAIK every time that the SC2 client changes the hacks have to be "readjusted" or something like that. It seems weird that a hacker got his hands on a beta key and managed to update his codes in 10 days, does it?
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On April 13 2015 21:35 ePisode wrote:It is done by overlays. Overlays can be placed on different screens or directly over minimap. If you're catching the game window in OBS rather than the screen then you can easily not show it. Image also shows unit destinations by a line. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GtxOCKg.png) Image shows starting races. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SGo7tsb.png) I'm sorry if uploading images are against TL TOS but I've copied them from a website and uploaded them separately to imgur.
Thank you for posting this. I think it's about time we actually get to see what these hacks look like.
And damn, I did not realize that maphacks show where your opponent has their screen positioned at.
The fact that this overlay shows unit pathing explains winter being successful at intersecting units multiple times: he doesn't need a script that automatically does that, his maphack simply shows the unit path on the minimap, which allows him to manually intercept the units.
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On April 14 2015 02:57 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 17:59 TheWaldo wrote:
So what is it that he's doing? Does he have 'a script that rallies to the closest unit in the fog of war', does he have 'a minimap overlay showing him where units are in the fog of war' or does he use 'a screen locker that hides when he is looking into fog of war'? I look at all the evidence and it's constantly jumping between these three theories.
Seeing as both the 'script' and the 'screen lock' theory are actually impossible to hide when streaming your games, I conclude that you willfully include 'evidence' you *know* is impossible/wrong. To me it looks like you've built up a big list of 'clues' that are all easily explained by themselves, but look intimidating to others when piled on a list like this. Most confirmed hacking replays in here need only a few lines of explanation to assert without doubt that the person is hacking, but in this case every replay needs a massive essay full of seemingly tiny things that are all coincidental. Quality over quantity, please.
I mean, the replay analysis vs HuK had 'clues' every 15 seconds then suddenly a gap of 3 minutes you just gloss over. Did he suddenly stop hacking? No; in those 3 minutes there was plenty of evidence that he was playing normally, so that bit isn't mentioned at all. If you take out the obvious coincidences and add in all the bits where Winter makes mistakes that disprove the hacking theory, I'm not sure whether there'll be anything left. I've read about that stasis field he supposedly manoeuvres around in the game vs HuK 4 times in your evidence, but never is it mentioned that he actually loses the game by walking right into said stasis field.
So please, narrow down in what way you think he's cheating instead of hovering between 3 different theories all the time (several of which being impossible) and stop pretending that 'at this point in time he looked at his minimap when he had no reason to!' is a solid argument to use against a GM level player. Wrong stasis ward. Nice 14 post account. It's this stasis ward: http://imgur.com/a/QLP9oOnce again proving, there are a ton of people in here that are either blatant winter fanbois, or haters, or avilo fanbois, or haters and aren't actually looking at the data provided.
1. TheWaldo is like winter's main mod.
2. Don't go after people with low post counts (TheWaldo=15) when the guy who comes into the thread with info about maphack overlays/waypoint identifiers has literally 3 more posts and you fall over yourself thanking him.
Just be consistent.
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I have to say this is actually one of the smartest cheats I've seen so far. It has a built-in leeway with variance and you can always play the "I'm just looking at the minimap" card while streaming. Interestingly enough, when you look at all the evidence with this hack in mind, it just makes perfect sense to me.
I know, 1st post, go ahead..
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On April 14 2015 05:13 TemujinGK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 02:57 avilo wrote:On April 13 2015 17:59 TheWaldo wrote:
So what is it that he's doing? Does he have 'a script that rallies to the closest unit in the fog of war', does he have 'a minimap overlay showing him where units are in the fog of war' or does he use 'a screen locker that hides when he is looking into fog of war'? I look at all the evidence and it's constantly jumping between these three theories.
Seeing as both the 'script' and the 'screen lock' theory are actually impossible to hide when streaming your games, I conclude that you willfully include 'evidence' you *know* is impossible/wrong. To me it looks like you've built up a big list of 'clues' that are all easily explained by themselves, but look intimidating to others when piled on a list like this. Most confirmed hacking replays in here need only a few lines of explanation to assert without doubt that the person is hacking, but in this case every replay needs a massive essay full of seemingly tiny things that are all coincidental. Quality over quantity, please.
I mean, the replay analysis vs HuK had 'clues' every 15 seconds then suddenly a gap of 3 minutes you just gloss over. Did he suddenly stop hacking? No; in those 3 minutes there was plenty of evidence that he was playing normally, so that bit isn't mentioned at all. If you take out the obvious coincidences and add in all the bits where Winter makes mistakes that disprove the hacking theory, I'm not sure whether there'll be anything left. I've read about that stasis field he supposedly manoeuvres around in the game vs HuK 4 times in your evidence, but never is it mentioned that he actually loses the game by walking right into said stasis field.
So please, narrow down in what way you think he's cheating instead of hovering between 3 different theories all the time (several of which being impossible) and stop pretending that 'at this point in time he looked at his minimap when he had no reason to!' is a solid argument to use against a GM level player. Wrong stasis ward. Nice 14 post account. It's this stasis ward: http://imgur.com/a/QLP9oOnce again proving, there are a ton of people in here that are either blatant winter fanbois, or haters, or avilo fanbois, or haters and aren't actually looking at the data provided. 1. TheWaldo is like winter's main mod. 2. Don't go after people with low post counts (TheWaldo=15) when the guy who comes into the thread with info about maphack overlays/waypoint identifiers has literally 3 more posts and you fall over yourself thanking him. Just be consistent.
except he has posted about hacking before in 2012, (look at his post history) , its not like he came out of the woods and created a new account . Why don't you look at the evidence instead of looking at the people talking.
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On April 14 2015 05:13 TemujinGK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 02:57 avilo wrote:On April 13 2015 17:59 TheWaldo wrote:
So what is it that he's doing? Does he have 'a script that rallies to the closest unit in the fog of war', does he have 'a minimap overlay showing him where units are in the fog of war' or does he use 'a screen locker that hides when he is looking into fog of war'? I look at all the evidence and it's constantly jumping between these three theories.
Seeing as both the 'script' and the 'screen lock' theory are actually impossible to hide when streaming your games, I conclude that you willfully include 'evidence' you *know* is impossible/wrong. To me it looks like you've built up a big list of 'clues' that are all easily explained by themselves, but look intimidating to others when piled on a list like this. Most confirmed hacking replays in here need only a few lines of explanation to assert without doubt that the person is hacking, but in this case every replay needs a massive essay full of seemingly tiny things that are all coincidental. Quality over quantity, please.
I mean, the replay analysis vs HuK had 'clues' every 15 seconds then suddenly a gap of 3 minutes you just gloss over. Did he suddenly stop hacking? No; in those 3 minutes there was plenty of evidence that he was playing normally, so that bit isn't mentioned at all. If you take out the obvious coincidences and add in all the bits where Winter makes mistakes that disprove the hacking theory, I'm not sure whether there'll be anything left. I've read about that stasis field he supposedly manoeuvres around in the game vs HuK 4 times in your evidence, but never is it mentioned that he actually loses the game by walking right into said stasis field.
So please, narrow down in what way you think he's cheating instead of hovering between 3 different theories all the time (several of which being impossible) and stop pretending that 'at this point in time he looked at his minimap when he had no reason to!' is a solid argument to use against a GM level player. Wrong stasis ward. Nice 14 post account. It's this stasis ward: http://imgur.com/a/QLP9oOnce again proving, there are a ton of people in here that are either blatant winter fanbois, or haters, or avilo fanbois, or haters and aren't actually looking at the data provided. 1. TheWaldo is like winter's main mod. 2. Don't go after people with low post counts (TheWaldo=15) when the guy who comes into the thread with info about maphack overlays/waypoint identifiers has literally 3 more posts and you fall over yourself thanking him. Just be consistent.
It wasn't just TheWaldo's post count, it was the fact that he completely glossed over the evidence Avilo posted, not to mention that he focused on the wrong Stasis ward.
ePisode, by contrast, posted screenshots of maphack overlays, which was incredibly useful to the discussion taking place.
Personally I wish we could all refrain from bashing post-counts, because I think it feeds into elitism, and elitism is one thing that I do not like about teamliquid.net. However, that being said, you cannot compare ePisode to TheWaldo.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking.
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On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking.
If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial.
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On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial.
A lot less posts is maybe what this thread needs most though... It has been very trendy over the last weeks to accuse people because of just a few lucky moves (even if in the same game the guy makes 10x more unlucky ones). The paranoia is huge these days.
I would love to be able to make replays anonymous and post 100% clean replays here saying "hey this guy hacked me" and then see how many false evidences and wrong conclusions people can make when they just want someone to be proven guilty.
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That is kind of the purpose of sc2overwatch.com
The rules in this thread require reasonable evidence and timestamps to be included, too.
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On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking.
I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again).
I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it.
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On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it.
Dude, even pro-players who have analysed it have concluded that there's nothing in this. Just give it up and try to come to terms with the fact he beat you fair and square. I know your complete hate for him makes that hard for you, but sometimes you just gotta face reality.
Quite frankly, if you really want to get some shit on Winter (which you undeniably do, this is what this is all about) your time would be much better spent making sure he isn't viewbotting again as that affair had genuine evidence behind the claims not just some paranoid straw-clutching from a pathologically obsessed sore loser.
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On April 14 2015 08:58 Crot4le wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. Dude, even pro-players who have analysed it have concluded that there's nothing in this. Just give it up and try to come to terms with the fact he beat you fair and square. I know your complete hate for him makes that hard for you, but sometimes you just gotta face reality. Quite frankly, if you really want to get some shit on Winter (which you undeniably do, this is what this is all about) your time would be much better spent making sure he isn't viewbotting again as that affair had genuine evidence behind the claims not just some paranoid straw-clutching from a pathologically obsessed sore loser.
Except he didn't lose to him.
The reason plexa closes threads like this is because of people like you who literally do not even read or watch the evidence presented and thus derails things like crazy.
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Hello!
Can someone check this replay?
http://drop.sc/396305
My terran opponent did block my exp without scout around 2-3 minutes.
And also he did perfect build vs proxy oracle also without scaut.
He did scan my main but he saw only a robo...
For me its looks like Maphack 
Sorry for bad english.
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On April 14 2015 09:04 DARKKKIS wrote:Hello! Can someone check this replay? http://drop.sc/396305My terran opponent did block my exp without scout around 2-3 minutes. And also he did perfect build vs proxy oracle also without scaut. He did scan my main but he saw only a robo... For me its looks like Maphack Sorry for bad english.
Looks pretty hacky to me. I guess the ebay block could be legendary probe timing knowledge, knowing exactly the time a probe will arrive at his base form each starting position, but I don't think so.
The observer snipe at 12:50 is pretty suspicious.
Also at 15:30 it's the first time he properly positions his army, exactly when you are moving out to attack and he has no vision.
At 18:25 he attacks move exactly when the oracle is coming from the right just before he has vision of it.
I stopped watching there, it's obviously hacking if you ask me.
EDIT: Grammar.
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edit: wrong place, Plexa said it stops here.
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EPT
