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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody.
Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence. |
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial. On April 14 2015 07:19 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial. A lot less posts is maybe what this thread needs most though... It has been very trendy over the last weeks to accuse people because of just a few lucky moves (even if in the same game the guy makes 10x more unlucky ones). The paranoia is huge these days. I would love to be able to make replays anonymous and post 100% clean replays here saying "hey this guy hacked me" and then see how many false evidences and wrong conclusions people can make when they just want someone to be proven guilty. On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. On April 14 2015 08:58 Crot4le wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. Dude, even pro-players who have analysed it have concluded that there's nothing in this. Just give it up and try to come to terms with the fact he beat you fair and square. I know your complete hate for him makes that hard for you, but sometimes you just gotta face reality. Quite frankly, if you really want to get some shit on Winter (which you undeniably do, this is what this is all about) your time would be much better spent making sure he isn't viewbotting again as that affair had genuine evidence behind the claims not just some paranoid straw-clutching from a pathologically obsessed sore loser.
I don't appreciate you guys trying to get the last word in. The discussion is over, any more on this topic without new evidence will be met with bans.
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http://drop.sc/396329 (HotS)
ID:liij
Server:EU
At 10:22 he looks at my army through fog of war
At 11:00 he snipes my probe without vision
These are the two biggest ones.
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On April 14 2015 16:44 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial. Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 07:19 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial. A lot less posts is maybe what this thread needs most though... It has been very trendy over the last weeks to accuse people because of just a few lucky moves (even if in the same game the guy makes 10x more unlucky ones). The paranoia is huge these days. I would love to be able to make replays anonymous and post 100% clean replays here saying "hey this guy hacked me" and then see how many false evidences and wrong conclusions people can make when they just want someone to be proven guilty. Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 08:58 Crot4le wrote:On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. Dude, even pro-players who have analysed it have concluded that there's nothing in this. Just give it up and try to come to terms with the fact he beat you fair and square. I know your complete hate for him makes that hard for you, but sometimes you just gotta face reality. Quite frankly, if you really want to get some shit on Winter (which you undeniably do, this is what this is all about) your time would be much better spent making sure he isn't viewbotting again as that affair had genuine evidence behind the claims not just some paranoid straw-clutching from a pathologically obsessed sore loser. I don't appreciate you guys trying to get the last word in. The discussion is over, any more on this topic without new evidence will be met with bans.
I understand you don't want this to become Kripp's twitch chat, but I don't really like how you put an end to a constructive discussion instead of warning and calling out people who just flame here and derail the thread. On top of that, we are getting valuable info about hacking programs here (which we might not get otherwise - like the minimap hack showing rally points of units). So, in a way, you are denying us to dig deeper into very serious issue and expose current hacking tricks. This is called "map hacker and general hacking and cheating thread" after all.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 15 2015 00:43 Kira_V wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 16:44 Plexa wrote:On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial. On April 14 2015 07:19 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial. A lot less posts is maybe what this thread needs most though... It has been very trendy over the last weeks to accuse people because of just a few lucky moves (even if in the same game the guy makes 10x more unlucky ones). The paranoia is huge these days. I would love to be able to make replays anonymous and post 100% clean replays here saying "hey this guy hacked me" and then see how many false evidences and wrong conclusions people can make when they just want someone to be proven guilty. On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. On April 14 2015 08:58 Crot4le wrote:On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. Dude, even pro-players who have analysed it have concluded that there's nothing in this. Just give it up and try to come to terms with the fact he beat you fair and square. I know your complete hate for him makes that hard for you, but sometimes you just gotta face reality. Quite frankly, if you really want to get some shit on Winter (which you undeniably do, this is what this is all about) your time would be much better spent making sure he isn't viewbotting again as that affair had genuine evidence behind the claims not just some paranoid straw-clutching from a pathologically obsessed sore loser. I don't appreciate you guys trying to get the last word in. The discussion is over, any more on this topic without new evidence will be met with bans. I understand you don't want this to become Kripp's twitch chat, but I don't really like how you put an end to a constructive discussion instead of warning and calling out people who just flame here and derail the thread. On top of that, we are getting valuable info about hacking programs here (which we might not get otherwise - like the minimap hack showing rally points of units). So, in a way, you are denying us to dig deeper into very serious issue and expose current hacking tricks. This is called "map hacker and general hacking and cheating thread" after all.
I put an end to the discussion surrounding the accusation against Winter unless someone can provide new evidence. I did not shutdown the discussion surrounding the capabilities of maphacks, but as per the OP
TL GM / Master hacker thread contains a database of confirmed hacker and is a place to discuss general hacking / cheating related subjects. keep it civil and productive.
But if people feel like knowing the capabilities of a map hack is useful in incriminating people then I see no reason to shut down that discussion.
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On April 15 2015 01:55 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 00:43 Kira_V wrote:On April 14 2015 16:44 Plexa wrote:On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial. On April 14 2015 07:19 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial. A lot less posts is maybe what this thread needs most though... It has been very trendy over the last weeks to accuse people because of just a few lucky moves (even if in the same game the guy makes 10x more unlucky ones). The paranoia is huge these days. I would love to be able to make replays anonymous and post 100% clean replays here saying "hey this guy hacked me" and then see how many false evidences and wrong conclusions people can make when they just want someone to be proven guilty. On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. On April 14 2015 08:58 Crot4le wrote:On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. Dude, even pro-players who have analysed it have concluded that there's nothing in this. Just give it up and try to come to terms with the fact he beat you fair and square. I know your complete hate for him makes that hard for you, but sometimes you just gotta face reality. Quite frankly, if you really want to get some shit on Winter (which you undeniably do, this is what this is all about) your time would be much better spent making sure he isn't viewbotting again as that affair had genuine evidence behind the claims not just some paranoid straw-clutching from a pathologically obsessed sore loser. I don't appreciate you guys trying to get the last word in. The discussion is over, any more on this topic without new evidence will be met with bans. I understand you don't want this to become Kripp's twitch chat, but I don't really like how you put an end to a constructive discussion instead of warning and calling out people who just flame here and derail the thread. On top of that, we are getting valuable info about hacking programs here (which we might not get otherwise - like the minimap hack showing rally points of units). So, in a way, you are denying us to dig deeper into very serious issue and expose current hacking tricks. This is called "map hacker and general hacking and cheating thread" after all. I put an end to the discussion surrounding the accusation against Winter unless someone can provide new evidence. I did not shutdown the discussion surrounding the capabilities of maphacks, but as per the OP Show nested quote +TL GM / Master hacker thread contains a database of confirmed hacker and is a place to discuss general hacking / cheating related subjects. keep it civil and productive. But if people feel like knowing the capabilities of a map hack is useful in incriminating people then I see no reason to shut down that discussion.
Okay, I have a question about the bold statement at the end there. I know it is against Blizzard ToS to use any sort of maphack with any SC2 game-mode. And I know teamliquid bans people that they find out use maphacks. However, I feel like we, as a community, could learn a lot about the capabilities of map-hacks by seeing them in action. So, my question is: if a teamliquid user were to install a maphack and use it only in non-ladder custom games against AIs, would they face a ban from teamliquid?
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On April 15 2015 01:55 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 00:43 Kira_V wrote:On April 14 2015 16:44 Plexa wrote:On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial. On April 14 2015 07:19 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial. A lot less posts is maybe what this thread needs most though... It has been very trendy over the last weeks to accuse people because of just a few lucky moves (even if in the same game the guy makes 10x more unlucky ones). The paranoia is huge these days. I would love to be able to make replays anonymous and post 100% clean replays here saying "hey this guy hacked me" and then see how many false evidences and wrong conclusions people can make when they just want someone to be proven guilty. On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. On April 14 2015 08:58 Crot4le wrote:On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. Dude, even pro-players who have analysed it have concluded that there's nothing in this. Just give it up and try to come to terms with the fact he beat you fair and square. I know your complete hate for him makes that hard for you, but sometimes you just gotta face reality. Quite frankly, if you really want to get some shit on Winter (which you undeniably do, this is what this is all about) your time would be much better spent making sure he isn't viewbotting again as that affair had genuine evidence behind the claims not just some paranoid straw-clutching from a pathologically obsessed sore loser. I don't appreciate you guys trying to get the last word in. The discussion is over, any more on this topic without new evidence will be met with bans. I understand you don't want this to become Kripp's twitch chat, but I don't really like how you put an end to a constructive discussion instead of warning and calling out people who just flame here and derail the thread. On top of that, we are getting valuable info about hacking programs here (which we might not get otherwise - like the minimap hack showing rally points of units). So, in a way, you are denying us to dig deeper into very serious issue and expose current hacking tricks. This is called "map hacker and general hacking and cheating thread" after all. I put an end to the discussion surrounding the accusation against Winter unless someone can provide new evidence. I did not shutdown the discussion surrounding the capabilities of maphacks, but as per the OP Show nested quote +TL GM / Master hacker thread contains a database of confirmed hacker and is a place to discuss general hacking / cheating related subjects. keep it civil and productive. But if people feel like knowing the capabilities of a map hack is useful in incriminating people then I see no reason to shut down that discussion.
Ok, fair enough. I'd appreciate if you were a bit more specific next time, as the approach you took sounded like you just want people to skip on this completely and go back to the old rails, imho. But fine, good to know.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 15 2015 02:27 Kira_V wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 01:55 Plexa wrote:On April 15 2015 00:43 Kira_V wrote:On April 14 2015 16:44 Plexa wrote:On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial. On April 14 2015 07:19 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial. A lot less posts is maybe what this thread needs most though... It has been very trendy over the last weeks to accuse people because of just a few lucky moves (even if in the same game the guy makes 10x more unlucky ones). The paranoia is huge these days. I would love to be able to make replays anonymous and post 100% clean replays here saying "hey this guy hacked me" and then see how many false evidences and wrong conclusions people can make when they just want someone to be proven guilty. On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. On April 14 2015 08:58 Crot4le wrote:On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. Dude, even pro-players who have analysed it have concluded that there's nothing in this. Just give it up and try to come to terms with the fact he beat you fair and square. I know your complete hate for him makes that hard for you, but sometimes you just gotta face reality. Quite frankly, if you really want to get some shit on Winter (which you undeniably do, this is what this is all about) your time would be much better spent making sure he isn't viewbotting again as that affair had genuine evidence behind the claims not just some paranoid straw-clutching from a pathologically obsessed sore loser. I don't appreciate you guys trying to get the last word in. The discussion is over, any more on this topic without new evidence will be met with bans. I understand you don't want this to become Kripp's twitch chat, but I don't really like how you put an end to a constructive discussion instead of warning and calling out people who just flame here and derail the thread. On top of that, we are getting valuable info about hacking programs here (which we might not get otherwise - like the minimap hack showing rally points of units). So, in a way, you are denying us to dig deeper into very serious issue and expose current hacking tricks. This is called "map hacker and general hacking and cheating thread" after all. I put an end to the discussion surrounding the accusation against Winter unless someone can provide new evidence. I did not shutdown the discussion surrounding the capabilities of maphacks, but as per the OP TL GM / Master hacker thread contains a database of confirmed hacker and is a place to discuss general hacking / cheating related subjects. keep it civil and productive. But if people feel like knowing the capabilities of a map hack is useful in incriminating people then I see no reason to shut down that discussion. Ok, fair enough. I'd appreciate if you were a bit more specific next time, as the approach you took sounded like you just want people to skip on this completely and go back to the old rails, imho. But fine, good to know.
I don't know man.
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking.
Seems pretty clear to me.
On April 15 2015 02:11 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 01:55 Plexa wrote:On April 15 2015 00:43 Kira_V wrote:On April 14 2015 16:44 Plexa wrote:On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial. On April 14 2015 07:19 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 14 2015 06:58 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. If this thread removed every post about someone who was playing mostly normal and obviously working hard to hide their maphack there would be a lot less posts. Things like attack moving at cloaked units that aren't detected over and over are simply not circumstantial. A lot less posts is maybe what this thread needs most though... It has been very trendy over the last weeks to accuse people because of just a few lucky moves (even if in the same game the guy makes 10x more unlucky ones). The paranoia is huge these days. I would love to be able to make replays anonymous and post 100% clean replays here saying "hey this guy hacked me" and then see how many false evidences and wrong conclusions people can make when they just want someone to be proven guilty. On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. On April 14 2015 08:58 Crot4le wrote:On April 14 2015 08:25 avilo wrote:On April 14 2015 05:31 Plexa wrote:
This post ends the Winter hacking discussion unless there is more evidence. It's pretty clear that the evidence is circumstantial at best, which isn't anywhere near the standard of proof to confirm hacking. I do not really understand how clicking to cloaked units in the fog of war with perfect accuracy is anywhere near circumstantial. I did list a lot of suspicious "circumstantial things", but i did also note the things that definitely are 100% not circumstantial (stasis ward, clicking to observers in fog of war, re-pathing while seeing obs in fog of war which is impossible without 3rd party to do over and over again). I do not think it is exactly standard to call following cloaked units and clicking directly on them through fog of war circumstantial, but fair enough if you do not want more discussion on it. Dude, even pro-players who have analysed it have concluded that there's nothing in this. Just give it up and try to come to terms with the fact he beat you fair and square. I know your complete hate for him makes that hard for you, but sometimes you just gotta face reality. Quite frankly, if you really want to get some shit on Winter (which you undeniably do, this is what this is all about) your time would be much better spent making sure he isn't viewbotting again as that affair had genuine evidence behind the claims not just some paranoid straw-clutching from a pathologically obsessed sore loser. I don't appreciate you guys trying to get the last word in. The discussion is over, any more on this topic without new evidence will be met with bans. I understand you don't want this to become Kripp's twitch chat, but I don't really like how you put an end to a constructive discussion instead of warning and calling out people who just flame here and derail the thread. On top of that, we are getting valuable info about hacking programs here (which we might not get otherwise - like the minimap hack showing rally points of units). So, in a way, you are denying us to dig deeper into very serious issue and expose current hacking tricks. This is called "map hacker and general hacking and cheating thread" after all. I put an end to the discussion surrounding the accusation against Winter unless someone can provide new evidence. I did not shutdown the discussion surrounding the capabilities of maphacks, but as per the OP TL GM / Master hacker thread contains a database of confirmed hacker and is a place to discuss general hacking / cheating related subjects. keep it civil and productive. But if people feel like knowing the capabilities of a map hack is useful in incriminating people then I see no reason to shut down that discussion. Okay, I have a question about the bold statement at the end there. I know it is against Blizzard ToS to use any sort of maphack with any SC2 game-mode. And I know teamliquid bans people that they find out use maphacks. However, I feel like we, as a community, could learn a lot about the capabilities of map-hacks by seeing them in action. So, my question is: if a teamliquid user were to install a maphack and use it only in non-ladder custom games against AIs, would they face a ban from teamliquid?
We won't ban you for it, but as it is against Blizzard's ToS you run the risk of getting yourself banned from Bnet. I'm not going to suggest anyone go out and find/use hacks in any way shape or form. Use at your own risk.
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On April 13 2015 06:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 06:03 Jinchu wrote:On April 13 2015 06:01 Attunga wrote:I have viewed the vods in question as well as reading all of the analysis here and taking careful note of some of the streamers out there streaming with two monitors. I think it highlights a few points: - It is obvious that Winter was just doing what all streamers do. Many of them will look of screen checking their chats and Winter definitely views and responds to his chats during his play
- Winter just outplays avilo, his multitasking seems to be far better. I don't think he needs a hack to beat avilo, he is just a far better player. I didn't realise that before all this came out.
- I can't imagine that a hack out there actually exists for LoTV, checking the known hack sites they do seem to be specific to certain game versions.
- It just does not make sense for someone like Winter (or anyone) to use a hack in the middle of the beta as those players that are in it are quite visible, it would not only end the account they use but make them know to Blizzard personally as a hacker - you would have to be batshit crazy to use hacks right now.
Winter has handled himself really well throughout this, as someone who is a big and exclusive SC2 fan, I find it really sad to see these kinds of attacks, they really do bring everyone down. I think the only solution is a monitored show match, let em sort it out and prove that Winter is a far better player than Avilo ... make him eat his sox and apologise for all of the attacks. This. A carefully monitored showmatch. With TB casting. Oh the lols. Not in a million years
With Chill co-casting in the most neutral way possible ? ...... huh... ? ... please ?
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I would like to bring this player to your attention. His nickname is Quent, currently playing for Invasion esport.
Today Quent played a game against Stephano who thought the protoss played a little bit suspiciously. After the game Stephano watched the replay and explained his perplexities. You can see the game here:
http://www.twitch.tv/mdstephano/v/4034182?t=1h04m50s.
His after game analys is here: http://www.twitch.tv/mdstephano/v/4034182?t=1h15m30s
When I reported this to my friends some of them told me they feel like Quent is playing weird sometimes.
One of them played a Bo3 with Quent in a little french cup. You can see the replays here:
http://drop.sc/396367
http://drop.sc/396366
http://drop.sc/396365
They are ZvTs. In the first and second Quent walks his units during the early game, while in the third my friend decided to go for 15 pool 15 gas and magically Quent stays in his base. The protoss didn't scout in any game.
If anyone has more opinion on him I would just love hearing them.
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Profil:
battlenet://starcraft/profile/2/10608606067644432384
Replay:
http://drop.sc/396368
Race:
Terran
Terran "Lancel" Maphack user
1 know exactly where I stand with my units where he is going with his reaper
2 he is scouting exactly to where I build my Proxy Gate
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On April 16 2015 06:57 SuperHofmann wrote:I would like to bring this player to your attention. His nickname is Quent, currently playing for Invasion esport. Today Quent played a game against Stephano who thought the protoss played a little bit suspiciously. After the game Stephano watched the replay and explained his perplexities. You can see the game here: http://www.twitch.tv/mdstephano/v/4034182?t=1h04m50s. His after game analys is here: http://www.twitch.tv/mdstephano/v/4034182?t=1h15m30sWhen I reported this to my friends some of them told me they feel like Quent is playing weird sometimes. One of them played a Bo3 with Quent in a little french cup. You can see the replays here: http://drop.sc/396367http://drop.sc/396366http://drop.sc/396365They are ZvTs. In the first and second Quent walks his units during the early game, while in the third my friend decided to go for 15 pool 15 gas and magically Quent stays in his base. The protoss didn't scout in any game. If anyone has more opinion on him I would just love hearing them.
SortOf and Naniwa discussed this player recently for similar suspicions. Doesn't seem legit.
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Player: [ƮSK] WhySoSeriOus
League: Master/Diamond/Not ranked currently
replay
1) Does not scout my main for gas with his SCV, whatever it happens, even to a self proclaimed great player like himself I guess.
2) Goes overlord hunting with 4-6 marines, that happens, but he is pretty good at it.
3) Does a weak hellbat banshee push which he turns around outside my nat just as I que roaches. I guess thats not that strange, but he didn't check if I had a third or anything, just suddenly turned around without poking in.
4) Places a tank in his main and units around the edges as my nydus is about to finish.
5) he fucking tells me that I have mutas on the way and whines about how broken it is without even seeing them.
6) I tell him nice hack and he tells me that he knew mutas were on the way because I had zero upgrades on the roaches and that I am a bad idiot player. So I went over the replay, the guy does not ever click on my roaches at any point during the game as far as I can tell.
to me he is a hacker.
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On April 18 2015 08:53 JacobShock wrote:Player: [ƮSK] WhySoSeriOusLeague: Master/Diamond/Not ranked currently replay1) Does not scout my main for gas with his SCV, whatever it happens, even to a self proclaimed great player like himself I guess. 2) Goes overlord hunting with 4-6 marines, that happens, but he is pretty good at it. 3) Does a weak hellbat banshee push which he turns around outside my nat just as I que roaches. I guess thats not that strange, but he didn't check if I had a third or anything, just suddenly turned around without poking in. 4) Places a tank in his main and units around the edges as my nydus is about to finish. 5) he fucking tells me that I have mutas on the way and whines about how broken it is without even seeing them. 6) I tell him nice hack and he tells me that he knew mutas were on the way because I had zero upgrades on the roaches and that I am a bad idiot player. So I went over the replay, the guy does not ever click on my roaches at any point during the game as far as I can tell. to me he is a hacker.
Hello There, still appriciate how you don't understand how the games works, btw going step by step:
1) I dind't scout gas and that was a mistake (no progamer here)
2) Just trying to kill your first overlord outside of my natural, normally with 15 gas (didn't get it), and i saw the path of the second one with SCV
3) with that hellbat push you never go into third (usually few drones at that timing), but you just go in natural, and then no speed on lings means usually 2 base all in with roaches/banes or 2 base mutas etc.etc.
4) because is the third time(with a different account) i met you, and you usually do the same thing all over again, is pretty normal (for me) to try to prevent that kind of all in.
5-6)Thats a lie, i told you, after the game, that because i didn't saw more roaches after the second wave, it's pretty common expect mutas swtich.
edited here AND POINT 4 - : Btw i'm not here to ARGUING, i play just a few games(20-30) every season for fun, i'm here only to give my point of view
Thanks guys and sorry for my bad english 
User was banned for this post.
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http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/6801022/1/llllllllllll/
Terran
http://www.sc2overwatch.com/game/98
6:10 builds a full wall at natural before 2nd orbital after I built a baneling nest
6:50 reinforces wall even more and builds a marauder
7:10 as my banelings are coming in, they select all the hellions and attack toward their wall
9:30 turns all units around from mid map to intercept a counter attack
11:30 intercepts another counter attack and begins thor + viking production
13:00 attacks 3rd base right as it is finishing, selects banshees and pulls them before my mutas are in vision
17:50 starts viking and thor production after 17 mutas are in production
20:40 attacks base on left side as it starts
23:30 attack moves straight to where my mutas are coming in to harass
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http://drop.sc/396444
terran
1. In his doom drop(which is uncommon in this league). he hits the only point that i have no observer or forces on.
2. he catches both of my warp-prism without anything.
3. His build is completely counter of my build. 5 raxes against 2 collo all in.
this is a master level game. I dont have too many reasons but i believe this is obvious enough.
Thanks for reviewing my report XD
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On April 18 2015 09:56 WhySoSeriOus_IT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2015 08:53 JacobShock wrote:Player: [ƮSK] WhySoSeriOusLeague: Master/Diamond/Not ranked currently replay1) Does not scout my main for gas with his SCV, whatever it happens, even to a self proclaimed great player like himself I guess. 2) Goes overlord hunting with 4-6 marines, that happens, but he is pretty good at it. 3) Does a weak hellbat banshee push which he turns around outside my nat just as I que roaches. I guess thats not that strange, but he didn't check if I had a third or anything, just suddenly turned around without poking in. 4) Places a tank in his main and units around the edges as my nydus is about to finish. 5) he fucking tells me that I have mutas on the way and whines about how broken it is without even seeing them. 6) I tell him nice hack and he tells me that he knew mutas were on the way because I had zero upgrades on the roaches and that I am a bad idiot player. So I went over the replay, the guy does not ever click on my roaches at any point during the game as far as I can tell. to me he is a hacker. Hello There, still appriciate how you don't understand how the games works, btw going step by step: 1) I dind't scout gas and that was a mistake (no progamer here) 2) Just trying to kill your first overlord outside of my natural, normally with 15 gas (didn't get it), and i saw the path of the second one with SCV 3) with that hellbat push you never go into third (usually few drones at that timing), but you just go in natural, and then no speed on lings means usually 2 base all in with roaches/banes or 2 base mutas etc.etc. 4) because is the third time i met you, and you usually do the same thing all over again, is pretty normal (for me) to try to prevent that kind of all in. 5-6)Thats a lie, i told you, after the game, that because i didn't saw more roaches after the second wave, it's pretty common expect mutas swtich. Btw i'm not here to Arguing but just to give my point of view Thanks guys and sorry for my bad english
Hi impressive how manner and nice you are in public.
1) Thats fine, it happens.
2) Thats all cool and again, that can happen. Though your screen is part way into the fog of war when going for the first overlord, though that could have been an accident.
3) Thats quite elaborate. No check for a third, no checking the ramp, all because of a hunch based of no ling speed. Its not conclusive, but it is suspicious.
4) This is hilarious and just shows what kind of person you are. First off, I have not played on that account in 3 weeks, just did my placements tonight and I have never played you before. Also I am pretty sure I have yet to do that build on that account, but you are welcome to provide the 3 other replays where I played you and did this build, thank you. If you do that, I will retract anything I said.
5)The roach upgrade thing is not a lie, you said so during the game and is free for anyone here to watch. Also you said the muta thing right as 7 of them popped, pretty sick timing.
Anyway, none of this matters. People are free to make up their own mind by watching the replay. Blizzard probably wont ban you, but I just want people here to know you are scum. If for some reason you aren't a hacker, which I am 99% sure you are, you are at least a liar, because we have only played once.
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Server : EU
League : Platinium (diamond when i write this post)
Pseudo : Again (bnet link: battlenet://starcraft/profile/2/5750647066846035968 )
replay : http://ggtracker.com/matches/5927110
I upload it on ggtracker because it's provide the inject % which is a point in this post.
Well my accusation are the following :
-Auto grouping (check at the group n°6)
-Auto-inject (you just can't saw the group of queens when he selects it to inject despite he is doing minimap inject which is wellknown to not the the fastest method, moreover thanks to GGtracker you can see his very high inject percentage (85%) whereas the maximum is 90% (cf:http://ggtracker.com/injects) )
-Maphack (Killing the overseer in the bottom right at 13:55 by acliking in the fog of war)
Well i know it's master / grandmaster maphack thread here but we are in the beginning of the season and with the MMR reset I think it worth the report here. I post here because I want to be sure he is guilty because he gonna play in a famous french teamleague soon and I want to provide as much evidence as I can.
Sorry for the english / typos.
Thanks for your time.
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Just a question, is the list in the first post being updated or not?
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your Country52798 Posts
On April 19 2015 08:44 NeV wrote:
Just a question, is the list in the first post being updated or not?
Not since 2013.
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I see, so how does it work? I mean, if I think someone is a hacker and I post it here, is someone going to review the replay and give a confirmation, or it's just anarchy?
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EPT
