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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody.
Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence. |
Calgary25998 Posts
Avilo, just for fun I just watched your VOD and then Winter's. You are ridiculous. When his eyes are "looking at something strange" he's looking at the minimap. You can even watch his VOD and see him moving the minimap or clicking within the minimap whenever his eyes "look at something".
It just goes on and on. When he doesn't lift your Probe at your third, you can see it exactly on his VOD. He flies towards your main and just lifts it and kills it on the way out.
When his screen "locks" at 7:36 you can watch his VOD around 4:09 http://www.twitch.tv/wintergaming/v/4011909
The timer at the top left of his VOD will show ~4:06:03. He just clicks in the top left and doesn't move his mouse far enough to scroll the minimap.
LOL your illuminati waypoint-into-unit-path explanation is amazing. In number one it clicks onto the Observer but not where it's headed. In number two, it's clicking nowhere near the Probe, but instead where it's heading. So WTF is this magical "hack" doing? lol
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Let this be the final death knell for anyone taking avilo seriously when he accuses someone of hacking.
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idk, i'd be kinda honored to be called a mher by him tbh. just means youre so much better than him that he legit believed you hacked.
and to know that he spent countless hours on analyzing your play, god. please accuse me, avilo!
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I still believe you Avilo
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On April 13 2015 11:40 codonbyte wrote:Can you describe the proof, so we know what to look for? Where should we have camera positioned?
its so obvious you cant miss it, just skip to minute 12 and watch my drop
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On April 13 2015 12:54 superzergling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 11:40 codonbyte wrote:On April 13 2015 11:28 superzergling wrote:skip to 12 minute for most obvious map hacking proof.. http://drop.sc/395194 Can you describe the proof, so we know what to look for? Where should we have camera positioned? its so obvious you cant miss it, just skip to minute 12 and watch my drop
I believe you kinda, I really do. Two more posts and i'll be sold.
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what has this thread become
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On April 13 2015 12:00 Chill wrote:Avilo, just for fun I just watched your VOD and then Winter's. You are ridiculous. When his eyes are "looking at something strange" he's looking at the minimap. You can even watch his VOD and see him moving the minimap or clicking within the minimap whenever his eyes "look at something". It just goes on and on. When he doesn't lift your Probe at your third, you can see it exactly on his VOD. He flies towards your main and just lifts it and kills it on the way out. When his screen "locks" at 7:36 you can watch his VOD around 4:09 http://www.twitch.tv/wintergaming/v/4011909The timer at the top left of his VOD will show ~4:06:03. He just clicks in the top left and doesn't move his mouse far enough to scroll the minimap. LOL your illuminati waypoint-into-unit-path explanation is amazing. In number one it clicks onto the Observer but not where it's headed. In number two, it's clicking nowhere near the Probe, but instead where it's heading. So WTF is this magical "hack" doing? lol
"Avilo, just for fun I just watched your VOD and then Winter's. You are ridiculous. When his eyes are "looking at something strange" he's looking at the minimap. You can even watch his VOD and see him moving the minimap or clicking within the minimap whenever his eyes "look at something"."
That was exactly my point Chill. He does it a lot after he has entirely lost vision of enemy unit locations, he will glance to the mini-map or whatever it is to ascertain their locations (is what it appears like to me).
I know you said you watched it, but it is pretty consistent when he has zero vision of enemy units he checks the mini-map, and then most times when enemy units are already visible on screen, he almost never does the glance.
It also definitely is not stream chat because it's an entirely trained glance and focused. There are multiple times he does the glance and then his head does a sharp snap back, as if snapping back to the game after checking "something."
I had to watch and rewind a few times to catch these things, i do not think it's really "illuminati shit" or "paranoia" because it happens consistently over the course of my replay and the replay of huk, with time stamps of suspicious actions matching up with the glances.
I looked through 4-5 of maximus black games vs winter and listed out many times he is blatantly looking into the fog of war, and even re-adjusting things like his muta harrass or scouting. I did not cross analyze the VOD corresponding to maximus's games, but it would be interesting if the glances match up again with the time stamps i've listed, along with whenever he entirely loses vision of all enemy forces.
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On April 13 2015 12:00 Chill wrote:Avilo, just for fun I just watched your VOD and then Winter's. You are ridiculous. When his eyes are "looking at something strange" he's looking at the minimap. You can even watch his VOD and see him moving the minimap or clicking within the minimap whenever his eyes "look at something". It just goes on and on. When he doesn't lift your Probe at your third, you can see it exactly on his VOD. He flies towards your main and just lifts it and kills it on the way out. When his screen "locks" at 7:36 you can watch his VOD around 4:09 http://www.twitch.tv/wintergaming/v/4011909The timer at the top left of his VOD will show ~4:06:03. He just clicks in the top left and doesn't move his mouse far enough to scroll the minimap. LOL your illuminati waypoint-into-unit-path explanation is amazing. In number one it clicks onto the Observer but not where it's headed. In number two, it's clicking nowhere near the Probe, but instead where it's heading. So WTF is this magical "hack" doing? lol
I would recommend checking the following since you came to the same conclusion as me that he is looking at the mini-map or "looking at something."
VOD Time 4:11:12-4:11:13 Game Time: 9:26 Top Left Timer: ~4:07:54
Look how uncanny instances like this are. He is flying his phoenix to my third and from the replay you will know there is a probe very close to those phoenixes. It's like he sees my probe out of the corner of his eye don't you think?
It's almost as if he is looking at it or for it right now as if he can see it on the mini-map. As you said, and i agree - he is looking at the mini-map and "looking at something."
This same thing happens later on with cloaked observers that he has never had his camera on that are approaching his base through the fog of war.
It then happens again in Huk's game with observers and the mega obvious stasis ward moments that i listed as well and took screen shots of:
http://imgur.com/a/QLP9o
Analysis of the above as you prob missed it from my post with huk's replay:
11:17- 11:30 - winter seems to know the exact location of
a stasis ward, clicks his units to it, later orders them to
stop just before the stasis ward, then later selects his 2 command centers to scan
the stasis ward (but has no energy), and then lastly starts to path around the stasis ward
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On April 13 2015 14:15 OtherWorld wrote:
what has this thread become
I am become death, destroyer of threads
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So what is it that he's doing? Does he have 'a script that rallies to the closest unit in the fog of war', does he have 'a minimap overlay showing him where units are in the fog of war' or does he use 'a screen locker that hides when he is looking into fog of war'? I look at all the evidence and it's constantly jumping between these three theories.
Seeing as both the 'script' and the 'screen lock' theory are actually impossible to hide when streaming your games, I conclude that you willfully include 'evidence' you *know* is impossible/wrong. To me it looks like you've built up a big list of 'clues' that are all easily explained by themselves, but look intimidating to others when piled on a list like this. Most confirmed hacking replays in here need only a few lines of explanation to assert without doubt that the person is hacking, but in this case every replay needs a massive essay full of seemingly tiny things that are all coincidental. Quality over quantity, please.
I mean, the replay analysis vs HuK had 'clues' every 15 seconds then suddenly a gap of 3 minutes you just gloss over. Did he suddenly stop hacking? No; in those 3 minutes there was plenty of evidence that he was playing normally, so that bit isn't mentioned at all. If you take out the obvious coincidences and add in all the bits where Winter makes mistakes that disprove the hacking theory, I'm not sure whether there'll be anything left. I've read about that stasis field he supposedly manoeuvres around in the game vs HuK 4 times in your evidence, but never is it mentioned that he actually loses the game by walking right into said stasis field.
So please, narrow down in what way you think he's cheating instead of hovering between 3 different theories all the time (several of which being impossible) and stop pretending that 'at this point in time he looked at his minimap when he had no reason to!' is a solid argument to use against a GM level player.
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On April 13 2015 01:59 DanceSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 20:00 WinterStarcraft wrote:
Everything up to 11 minutes of the previous "evidence" is completely wrong and obviously so. Past that I did not watch because if your first 10 claims are wrong I can't be bothered to spend 2 hours going over a game I LOST. I s it just me, or has Winter been dodging everything? I am no expert but I assume that if you cannot discredit an accusation against you, that you are guilty of, your next best option is to target the credibility of the accuser? Secondly, deceit and lies are best disguised alongside truth, it is common knowledge that if you want to lie or trick someone you mix as much truth in with the lie to obtain credibility. In this quote for example we see both: he is targeting avillo's credibility, and then dodging the rest of the accusations with the logic that "I am not hacking because I lost", as a reader your first impressions are typically "wow he is right, because hackers win games because they are hacking, If he was truly hacking, he wouldn't have lost". In reality, hackers use the hacks to gain an advantage, this does not always mean they will win. For the people who keep asking Winter to use a shoulder cam, please, that is among the dumbest logic I have ever read. You have accusations and evidence supporting a 'crime'. If the defendant of a crime was a murderer for example, how is telling the defendant "Let us watch you go about your day, and if we don't see you murder anyone then you clearly must not be a murderer" make any logical sense?
Is it just me or did you just cherrypick single bit of his post, take it out of context and then ignore the rest of the post which did exactly what you are are attacking it for not doing.
Like fucking hell, how slippery can you get DanceSC?
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On April 13 2015 03:13 ROOTFayth wrote:
I think we need people less biased than ProTech or Avilo to comment on it given that they have been trying really hard to succeed in the streaming scene and winter cheated his way in
That said, some of these are quite shady but I think we're going to need a bigger sample of suspicious games
Exactly, here is clearly some hidden agenda/confirmation bias/believing what they want to be true going on here.
Whereas those of us who dislike BOTH avilo and Winter (i.e. no bias) and just want to get to the truth have concluded that the accusations are the ramblings of a paranoid sore-loser who is in denial about losing to his nemesis.
I would rather people continue to analyse Winter's viewer figures and viewer list to make sure he is not viewbotting again rather than going over replays clutching at straws.
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On April 13 2015 05:15 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 05:02 ROOTiaguz wrote:
Don't wanna get too involved in the discussion so this is all I'm going to post here. Don't bother trying to get into a discussion because I'm not sufficiently interested to write more about it. I watched the HuK vs winter game on Echo there's no evidence that Winter is hacking and plenty of evidence that he is not. He makes far too many poor decisions and everything he does can be reasonably explained as either happenstance or a sensible idea based on how the game was going. If he is hacking he's doing a really good job not playing like one.
To refute the main 3 points:
1) This marine is scouting for 3rds. That it goes near an observer is coincidental
2) I don't see how this proves anything. If you draw a line from the robo bay that he'd scanned to his main, it's fair to say Winter can guess where an observer might be. Observers get scanned and killed all the time, doesn't prove much.
3) He gets caught by a stasis trap earlier in the game. Not only does that suggest he doesn't know where the stasis traps are but it would give him cause to not run in the obvious pathways.
Here I would pose the three main reasons that he's not hacking
1) He sacs his scouting scv to get information. He scans huks base multiple times and both 3rd locations. He scouts quite a bit actually
2) his first marine poke is super fucking awful. He should know that's not going to work before he goes in.
3) He doesn't react to phoenixes or the warp prism until after they're in his line of sight.
Hate Winter for reaping the viewbot benefits all you want, but not for hacking. As for "his marine poke is super fucking awful" that is true but that does not refute the other evidence. Lots of hackers are "awful."
Hang on a sec!
avilo is awful, so avilo must be a hacker as well!
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It is done by overlays. Overlays can be placed on different screens or directly over minimap. If you're catching the game window in OBS rather than the screen then you can easily not show it.
Image also shows unit destinations by a line.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GtxOCKg.png)
Image shows starting races.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SGo7tsb.png)
I'm sorry if uploading images are against TL TOS but I've copied them from a website and uploaded them separately to imgur.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
do we really need evidence to ban winter , who wants him anywhere near the community after all the shit he pulled.
User was warned for this post
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On April 13 2015 05:10 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 04:56 Raguel wrote:On April 09 2015 03:58 KingAlphard wrote:Hacker name: [AG] Nightwarrior . Team AG (Aggression gaming) - he is the ingame owner of the team as well. Has been maphacking for at least 1 month. Server: EU League: Diamond B.Net profile: battlenet://starcraft/profile/2/1606736158648172544 http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/3713126/1/NightWarrior/Replay: http://drop.sc/395875Pulls multiple probes ahead of time against a non scouted cannon rush. He is not hacking.. 1. you scout your base at 9 supply and the probe comes at base at 2:10 that a really early scout. so he know that there is something going on. in a normal game you scout with your 13 probe first around your base for proxies or cannon then you move your probe into your opponant base so it should be there around 3-3:30 min mark (map depended). when he sees the probe coming so early he takes another probe and puts it at is natrual ( that is just smart and good game sense). 2. You make a stargate and the orcal does some damages would never happend if he had hax. 3. you are really far behind and try to counter attack he know this because he did good damages against you. He makes 3 sentries could have force fielded your army in half at the ramp did not do it.. (He most likley would have forcefielded at perfect moment when you moved your army up is natural ramp if he would use hax) He is not haxing. can you pls watch your own replay and just try to think as neutral as you can then you will not wast my time or other thinking that someone is hacking. Thanku First off, it's not me playing. So, you can quit with your "think neutral" bullshit. Why do you say "waste my time"? lol, so this guy is actually you? By the way I have more replays of him hacking, it's just not worth it to post them because this one is already pretty obvious. Just because a probe comes in at 2:10 you don't patrol your probe on the natural base ramp and chase him down with 10 other probes.
Okey let say that he is hacking.. Why did he not move is probes when the orcal came into his base if he would be maphacking then he would have warped 3 stalkers before the orcal would be out or left the mothership core at home.
second why did he not forcefield the army out side of is natural when the counter attack came. If I would use maphack (I don´t) then I would have have moved my army near the ramp because. The moving the probes would be little bit suspicious but then the orcal and the army position proofs that he is not hacking. So please send the other replays and I will check if he is hacking or not. I could be wrong maybe he did not see the orcal and is just bad but he made perfect reaction to a failed cannon rush only thing that I did not like about is play it that he bad 4 gates instead of 3 could have expanded sooner and won the game easier. Don´t be angry if someone says something else you are really aggresive and i´am just saying imo and if you hate it hate if you like like I don´t care.
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On April 13 2015 21:35 ePisode wrote:It is done by overlays. Overlays can be placed on different screens or directly over minimap. If you're catching the game window in OBS rather than the screen then you can easily not show it. Image also shows unit destinations by a line. Image shows starting races. I'm sorry if uploading images are against TL TOS but I've copied them from a website and uploaded them separately to imgur.
That fits to everything i have seen in these replays, i theorized that the destinations of units are somehow being shown...apparently it's true. Everything makes sense. That would also make sense as to how he's able to track some units through fog of war, including cloaked units.
I'm assuming it shows cloaked unit on mini-map too?
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Jesus Christ Avilo. When are you going to stop obsessing over Winter? Every single time you bring something up you have questionable evidence at the best. Just what the hell are you trying to accomplish with all this?
Grow up already and start making your name, avilo, about you. Not about Winter.
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EPT
