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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody.
Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence. |
Well i don't like Winter too much for obvious reasons but the "evidence" provided here is not convincing at best.
Every single piece of evidence pointed out could be explained if Winter moves units via minimap.
All the scenes are cherry picked and even these are not convincing, like flying in the main three to four times and the army is always there? Not a problem let's skip these but do you see that two times the army has been between the main and the expo? How did he know that he can fly in now? Also losing all your phenix does not exactly point towars a maphack. Or moving your army in position to defend potential phenix harass after he lost all of his.
Let's just say i wasted about 2h of my life trying to find a reason to dislike Winter even more.
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On April 12 2015 05:58 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 05:56 nkr wrote:I have played many people that were later found out to be hackers When you're crying hacks every time you lose, you're bound to be right once or twice. What? Are you one of those that spews this bullshit? I rarely ever cry hacks on stream if ever any more.
You call korean pro streamers hackers lol.
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We rarely see sc2 drama in TL 
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pretty nice evidence! wouldn't be surprised if he is hacking imo.
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its always the same with avilo. he accues people for hacking, thats what he does
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Starting time of Analysis: 13:20
End Time of Analysis: 2:15:54
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haha cmon avilo, u're the player i've seen accuse people of hacking the most out of... well everybody literally, you're probably #1, and I'm not even kidding
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You keep referring to 'screen locks' in the sense that he's using a 'camera lock' hack. It's been highlighted somewhat, but I feel the need to clarify some points regarding this.
Internal hacks (those which are injected into the SC process) allow players to camera lock, but you cannot stream while using internal hacks regardless of OBS settings - what you see in SC is what your stream viewers will see.
External hacks or overlay hacks can be streamed, but none of them are capable of 'camera locking'. They do not display units via the view port (the main map), so there is no point! Not to mention that to achieve this externally while still allowing the player to move their camera would require a lot of effort.
With this in mind it becomes obvious that Winter is not using an internal hack or locking his camera.
Given that the invite only beta was released less than two weeks ago, it's highly unlikely that any hacks have been released. It's also worth noting that LotV has improved protection making it considerably harder to write internal hacks.
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On April 12 2015 08:41 CrimsonTT wrote:
It's also worth noting that LotV has improved protection making it considerably harder to write internal hacks.
Got a source on this?
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@avilo you wanted arguments against the evidence that you suggested so here it is. I watched your vod with your analysis of the replay all the way through and here is what I think about your evidence.
The most suspicious things I saw were the movement of his mothership core/stalker (when defending against avilo's phoenix push). He does move back the mothership core to the ramp between his main and nat, and then move stalkers down his nat ramp to fend off the phoenixes JUST BEFORE avilo's phoenixes arrive. What if avilo had moved his phoenixes along the right side of the map, and harassed winter's main instead? He would have got past all of winter's defenses and been able to kill probes, so that does seem a bit suspicious to me.
The other thing was the high templar warping in at his nat - although I find that less suspicious because he could have just moved the HTs to his nat's mineral line to defend the possibility of phoenix harass aimed at his nat.
Now about the shift-click commands, this is a copy/paste of what I posted on reddit:
I went through winter's vod and I believe the shift-command thing isn't a hack. I recorded the VOD from winter's perspective and played it back in slow motion. Every time he micro's his units, he sometimes pressses the shift key while moving them around, for some reason. It's probably just a habit of his to constantly add the units he's microing to the control group. I also followed his mouse movements every time the shift-move command was used and it appears that he is queing up the move commands himself, and every click is consistent with where his mouse is moving (i.e. it's not being automated by a script). Sometimes his mouse moves over the minimap while shift-clicking which is why there appears to be a big jump, but it's just because he's clicking the minimap at that time.
The claim that the shift-command is "always" in the direction of one of avilo's units isn't always correct, the shift commands were in random directions and it was likely just chance that a few of them were facing hiss units
As for th part where he moves the warping in stalker to his 3rd (roughly where avilo's 2nd observer is heading) - after watching the 1st person VOD in slo wmotion he actually adds the warping in stalker to the stalker control group (shift+ 1), then selects control group 1 and moves all of that control group up to the third (he right clicks while scrolling up and right) - this is why that stalker gets rallied there. The fact that they move very close to where the observer is moving is just a coincidence.
In conclusion, I think there is almost certainly not a script auto-moving his units.
Whether or not he is map hacking - I think it's still possible based on his suspicious army movements, but it still could have been good luck (or prediction of what you might do). The early game phoenix harass doesn't look suspicious to me at all (he's simply attacking between your main and nat and moving between them). When he catches the probe, he was just moving the phoenixes into your main and the probe happened to be along that path. I think there is a logical explanation for all of his movements, and although they might appear suspicious I think we would need more replay analysis to prove it.
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Game sense is a thing avilo. You lost because you couldn't keep up with Winter's mutli-tasking. You fell behind from his harass and then got caught with your pants down by the feedbacks on your own Pheonix. Having watched the VODs from both perspectives there really is nothing that fishy. Only once with the halluc was there anything remotely suspicious.
As much as I would LOVE more juicy drama about Winter you're clearly grasping at straws here because the alternative is having to accept that your nemesis beat you fair and square (twice).
By the way, prismatic alignment doesn't work on Pheonixes, it only affects armoured units.
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On April 12 2015 08:13 ROOTFayth wrote:
haha cmon avilo, u're the player i've seen accuse people of hacking the most out of... well everybody literally, you're probably #1, and I'm not even kidding
Remember when he accused Polt of maphacking? Many laughs were had. 
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It is really annoying that so many posts in this thread are just posts talking down to avilo. "I can't take you seriously" "you accues everyone as a hacker" "Hopefully your Mom using your head as a bouncing ball as a baby didn't harm your brain beyond repair." and in a sense "that's funny, let's just write that i do not like avilo or why no matter what he writes can be taken seriously". It's a shame really.
I am sorry that i do not contribute to this thread either, but it was so annoying reading all those posts just bashing avilo. He provided a deatailed post which should be checked. That's all. Maybe he is right, maybe he is not, that should be it, all this bashing is not briging anyone anywhere.
Once again. Sorry.
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I watched Avilo analysis and I must say it's pretty neat. Like I'm doing analysis myself and catched a couple of maphackers. I know the typical Maphacker moves.
I think everyone who's dealt with maphack (know the basics) and watches Avilo's VOD and follow the steps is 100 % convinced that he is maphacking.
Big props to Avilo for putting that much work/time to catch him.
Ps to Avilo Worst than maphacking I think he has a hack that intercept the closest ennemy unit or smthing. Hence the weird pathing.
pps : Beyond the fact that he caught Winter, his work is remarkable and can inspire all of us to study replays and track maphacks.
ppps JustinDunk1n are you a bot ^^ ?
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On April 12 2015 09:44 v_lm wrote:
ppps JustinDunk1n are you a bot ^^ ?
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Canada16217 Posts
On April 12 2015 09:49 JustinDunk1n wrote:Beep Boop Beep Boop Error Code 420 initiated. Nah I just didn't see anything fishy and both Avilo and Winter are cancer. Avilo is a manchild who cries over a video game and does(believe it or not) accuse a lot of people of cheating. Winter is a view botting scum bag. I just watched his video, then the vods and IMO nothing fishy. If you are paranoid and obsessed enough I am sure you might start to see some things though.
Leave this out of the thread, that also goes for anyone else just bashing ppl.
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You can tell by watching winter's vod that he is manually clicking the units to intercept the observers. He also manually hides his templars near the cannons as the observer is coming toward them. There is no automation in that, it's easy to see.
The fact he is intercepting and reacting to observers he shouldn't be able to see is what is suspicious. At 11:25 he looks at the hallucinated phoenix right when it runs into the observer and then changes its path to go to the 3rd base. The original path he sent it on would do nothing other than intercept the observer.
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EPT
