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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody.
Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence. |
On April 12 2015 09:58 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 09:49 JustinDunk1n wrote:On April 12 2015 09:44 v_lm wrote:
ppps JustinDunk1n are you a bot ^^ ? Beep Boop Beep Boop Error Code 420 initiated. Nah I just didn't see anything fishy and both Avilo and Winter are cancer. Avilo is a manchild who cries over a video game and does(believe it or not) accuse a lot of people of cheating. Winter is a view botting scum bag. I just watched his video, then the vods and IMO nothing fishy. If you are paranoid and obsessed enough I am sure you might start to see some things though. Leave this out of the thread, that also goes for anyone else just bashing ppl. Fair point. My bad. I honestly do think his accusation is false though.
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Avilo is a manchild who cries over a video game and does(believe it or not) accuse a lot of people of cheating. Yeah well I can understand some people aren't liking Avilo personnality but you must realize that if he accused barcode Polt of Maphack *that's legit after all given the game sense of Polt * he was kinda raging/trolling. Avilo is playing "kinda" a character, just like Idra in a way. There's good and evil in all men and Avilo is playing the evil of himself. A lot of people in the scene are playing the good of themselves... Well that's far off topic lol. *Most importantly, I'm pretty sure he didn't analyze Polt's replay that closely. His work on winter replay is very deep subtle and accurate.
I just watched his video, then the vods and IMO nothing fishy. Quick question : do you ladder a lot ? I do and I studied some maphacker replays (about a dozen the past year I'd say) and if you have that knowledge believe me it's more than obvious that WInter is maphacking (more than maphacking it seems he has a third party software that issues command ton intercept ennemy units).
Avilo is going very slowly and focussed on every details, maybe if he made a short youtube video (like the author of 30 seconds of salt did to expose a maphacker) summarizing the proofs it would be clearer and less aviloesque. Here people despising Avilo are either too lazy to go through the VOD, or haven't enough knowledge about MH to identy it + have preconceived idea about Avilo.
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Where's the replay against Avilo ? Other replays during that period of time ? Erased ?
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On April 12 2015 10:13 v_lm wrote: Where's the replay against Avilo ? Other replays during that period of time ? Erased ? I literally just uploaded the last few hundred replays from my folder, I don't have the legacy ones atm, I'll look for those (I use the scelight plugin for sc2 repstats and it auto uploads my HOTS replays, it doesn't work for LOTV yet)
EDIT: Here are my LOTV games http://sc2replaystats.com/account/replays/4312/0/1156135/1v1/AutoMM/21/0 (includes 2-0 v avilo)
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http://sc2replaystats.com/account/replays/4312/0/1156135/1v1/AutoMM/21/0 A lot of work ahead for avilo lol
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Calgary25979 Posts
Avilo, see you again in a few months when your analysis is ready. Enjoy~
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On April 12 2015 10:15 WinterStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 10:13 v_lm wrote: Where's the replay against Avilo ? Other replays during that period of time ? Erased ? I literally just uploaded the last few hundred replays from my folder, I don't have the legacy ones atm, I'll look for those (I use the scelight plugin for sc2 repstats and it auto uploads my HOTS replays, it doesn't work for LOTV yet) EDIT: Here are my LOTV games http://sc2replaystats.com/account/replays/4312/0/1156135/1v1/AutoMM/21/0 (includes 2-0 v avilo)
Releasing all these replays is commendable, but assuming you actually are concerned about these accusations (I'm assuming you're not), then streaming your screen (or two) from a webcam or external camera while still playing at a high level (not smurfing gold/plat) for a few games would probably be the quickest and most effective way at dismissing all of the hacking allegations.
I'm not saying you should do that, but if I were your PR rep, I'd recommend to you to do everything you could to reverse and clean up your image in SC, and silencing Avilo probably wouldn't hurt.
Then again, I just remembered that I shouldn't care at all about these two upstanding pillars of our SC community.
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Releasing 200 replays of the past has nothing to do with the fact it appears you are hacking in the game i posted. Can you explain what is this mysterious system you have to follow invisible units through the fog of war, and insta rallying to gas geysers on observer unit pathing?
Can you explain following a probe through the fog of war and clicking towards it and changing your unit pathing to get the probe? It's all just going to be luck right?
Hind sight 20/20 i should have posted this under a new account perhaps? Because people here are bashing me or saying things that have nothing to do with all of the evidence i have provided.
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On April 12 2015 08:13 ROOTFayth wrote: haha cmon avilo, u're the player i've seen accuse people of hacking the most out of... well everybody literally, you're probably #1, and I'm not even kidding
If mods could put an end to this for this thread it would be greatly appreciated. If this were anyone else posting this evidence perhaps people would address the evidence instead of constantly going to player personalty/names.
I do not care what you think of me or winter or obama or whoever. I posted what i believe is objective. And have listed all of the time stamps where it appears there is evidence, in a few cases what i believe is blatant since it involves following observers through fog of war and exact accuracy clicks to their pathing without ever having moved the camera to ever see the observers in the first place.
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On April 12 2015 11:33 avilo wrote:Releasing 200 replays of the past has nothing to do with the fact it appears you are hacking in the game i posted. Can you explain what is this mysterious system you have to follow invisible units through the fog of war, and insta rallying to gas geysers on observer unit pathing? Can you explain following a probe through the fog of war and clicking towards it and changing your unit pathing to get the probe? It's all just going to be luck right? Hind sight 20/20 i should have posted this under a new account perhaps? Because people here are bashing me or saying things that have nothing to do with all of the evidence i have provided.
Because TL is the only place to even pretend to have a legitimate discussion in sc2 I will give you a legitimate response. All of the evidence you have suggested is hacks is called "using active units". When you have an active unit like phoenixes you keep them on the map in the most valid locations. Several times you defend/overcharge your natural which forces my phoenixes to find another location to attack, which is obviously the main via the third. You send your probe out directly after overcharging SEVERAL times, to exactly where the logical place for me to move my phoenixes is. Most of those times the probe only enters my vision AFTER I have already sent a command into the main and I pick it up incidentally. Most of the game I did not even realize you had observers, or I would obviously have killed/avoided them. All luck.
I would encourage you to watch the VoD from my perspective as well, or any of the replays. Or at the very least find a game where you play a race that you have experience with.
EDIT: I would argue almost 500 replays and over 100 hours of games would have more validity than 12 minutes of an offrace PvP.
Also to use an arguement you used yourself against me. I am a masters random player. I am masters with protoss. Does it not make sense that yourself, as a less experienced protoss player would be beaten by a more experienced one.
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On April 12 2015 06:12 richlol wrote: It's not against the law/ToS to google hacks and look at what capabilities the current hacks have. I'd suggest going to those sites so you at least have a better idea of what people are capable of and thus what to look for when you're analyzing replays.
There are overlays that reproduce a full minimap and even units on the main screen, as well as their intended movement destination, without it being displayed by OBS. Set OBS to record your "Game Screen" and it will only stream the SC2 process irregardless if you're windowed or have the hack overlay on. You can also just have a second screen and place the minimap overlay on that screen (what Avilo is suggesting, I suppose).
A look at the hacking sites implies that these overlays are used just as frequently as your normal "inject" maphacks and therefore make streaming your game as proof of not hacking irrelevant.
A good player with experience using a hack will have developed ways to try and hide that hack. These hackers will not blindlessly and blatantly counter your build/movements. Instead what one must look for in the replays is player behavior that by itself is probably not proof of hacking, but when combined with a game or several games of similarly suspicious behavior, would be enough to lead a reasonable person to believe that that person is most likely hacking.
It's easy to post replays of people who don't even take the effort to hide their hack. The real challenge is to go after the big fish who take all the effort to hide it -- those are the most rewarding :D
It could actually help a lot to understand Winter's weird shift moving (suspected hack that also compute the path of enemy units).
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On April 12 2015 11:49 WinterStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 11:33 avilo wrote:Releasing 200 replays of the past has nothing to do with the fact it appears you are hacking in the game i posted. Can you explain what is this mysterious system you have to follow invisible units through the fog of war, and insta rallying to gas geysers on observer unit pathing? Can you explain following a probe through the fog of war and clicking towards it and changing your unit pathing to get the probe? It's all just going to be luck right? Hind sight 20/20 i should have posted this under a new account perhaps? Because people here are bashing me or saying things that have nothing to do with all of the evidence i have provided. Because TL is the only place to even pretend to have a legitimate discussion in sc2 I will give you a legitimate response. All of the evidence you have suggested is hacks is called "using active units". When you have an active unit like phoenixes you keep them on the map in the most valid locations. Several times you defend/overcharge your natural which forces my phoenixes to find another location to attack, which is obviously the main via the third. You send your probe out directly after overcharging SEVERAL times, to exactly where the logical place for me to move my phoenixes is. Most of those times the probe only enters my vision AFTER I have already sent a command into the main and I pick it up incidentally. Most of the game I did not even realize you had observers, or I would obviously have killed/avoided them. All luck. EDIT: I would argue al;most 500 replays and over 100 hours of games would have more validity than 12 minutes of an offrace PvP.
The evidence i have provided shows more than "using active units." It shows that you have knowledge of things in the fog of war that you should have zero knowledge of.
You even self admittedly just said you do not even realize observers are on the map, yet your units are always perfectly pathed to them and their destination points, in the most blatant case at 11:29 with pin-point accuracy while your map is not even on the same screen as the command is given. You jump to the observer immediately after as if you know it's there...and then your screen stops when you seem to realize it's an invisible unit on your mini-map, not something that could be attacked.
The same thing happens multiple times in the game, with the same set of commands being issued.
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On April 12 2015 11:55 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 11:49 WinterStarcraft wrote:On April 12 2015 11:33 avilo wrote:Releasing 200 replays of the past has nothing to do with the fact it appears you are hacking in the game i posted. Can you explain what is this mysterious system you have to follow invisible units through the fog of war, and insta rallying to gas geysers on observer unit pathing? Can you explain following a probe through the fog of war and clicking towards it and changing your unit pathing to get the probe? It's all just going to be luck right? Hind sight 20/20 i should have posted this under a new account perhaps? Because people here are bashing me or saying things that have nothing to do with all of the evidence i have provided. Because TL is the only place to even pretend to have a legitimate discussion in sc2 I will give you a legitimate response. All of the evidence you have suggested is hacks is called "using active units". When you have an active unit like phoenixes you keep them on the map in the most valid locations. Several times you defend/overcharge your natural which forces my phoenixes to find another location to attack, which is obviously the main via the third. You send your probe out directly after overcharging SEVERAL times, to exactly where the logical place for me to move my phoenixes is. Most of those times the probe only enters my vision AFTER I have already sent a command into the main and I pick it up incidentally. Most of the game I did not even realize you had observers, or I would obviously have killed/avoided them. All luck. EDIT: I would argue al;most 500 replays and over 100 hours of games would have more validity than 12 minutes of an offrace PvP. The evidence i have provided shows more than "using active units." It shows that you have knowledge of things in the fog of war that you should have zero knowledge of. You even self admittedly just said you do not even realize observers are on the map, yet your units are always perfectly pathed to them and their destination points, in the most blatant case at 11:29 with pin-point accuracy while your map is not even on the same screen as the command is given. You jump to the observer immediately after as if you know it's there...and then your screen stops when you seem to realize it's an invisible unit on your mini-map, not something that could be attacked. The same thing happens multiple times in the game, with the same set of commands being issued.
My patience lasted one post. I look forward to any player of professional experience agreeing with you on the convincing nature of these offences.
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On April 12 2015 11:56 WinterStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 11:55 avilo wrote:On April 12 2015 11:49 WinterStarcraft wrote:On April 12 2015 11:33 avilo wrote:Releasing 200 replays of the past has nothing to do with the fact it appears you are hacking in the game i posted. Can you explain what is this mysterious system you have to follow invisible units through the fog of war, and insta rallying to gas geysers on observer unit pathing? Can you explain following a probe through the fog of war and clicking towards it and changing your unit pathing to get the probe? It's all just going to be luck right? Hind sight 20/20 i should have posted this under a new account perhaps? Because people here are bashing me or saying things that have nothing to do with all of the evidence i have provided. Because TL is the only place to even pretend to have a legitimate discussion in sc2 I will give you a legitimate response. All of the evidence you have suggested is hacks is called "using active units". When you have an active unit like phoenixes you keep them on the map in the most valid locations. Several times you defend/overcharge your natural which forces my phoenixes to find another location to attack, which is obviously the main via the third. You send your probe out directly after overcharging SEVERAL times, to exactly where the logical place for me to move my phoenixes is. Most of those times the probe only enters my vision AFTER I have already sent a command into the main and I pick it up incidentally. Most of the game I did not even realize you had observers, or I would obviously have killed/avoided them. All luck. EDIT: I would argue al;most 500 replays and over 100 hours of games would have more validity than 12 minutes of an offrace PvP. The evidence i have provided shows more than "using active units." It shows that you have knowledge of things in the fog of war that you should have zero knowledge of. You even self admittedly just said you do not even realize observers are on the map, yet your units are always perfectly pathed to them and their destination points, in the most blatant case at 11:29 with pin-point accuracy while your map is not even on the same screen as the command is given. You jump to the observer immediately after as if you know it's there...and then your screen stops when you seem to realize it's an invisible unit on your mini-map, not something that could be attacked. The same thing happens multiple times in the game, with the same set of commands being issued. My patience lasted one post. I look forward to any player of professional experience agreeing with you on the convincing nature of these offences.
You, more than anyone here, have the power to "shut Avilo up", if you will, by streaming behind-the-shoulder games at a high level. But like I mentioned earlier, that's completely at your discretion. It's just the best advice I could give to anyone who's accused of hacking (you especially, because of your reputation).
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On April 12 2015 12:00 richlol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 11:56 WinterStarcraft wrote:On April 12 2015 11:55 avilo wrote:On April 12 2015 11:49 WinterStarcraft wrote:On April 12 2015 11:33 avilo wrote:Releasing 200 replays of the past has nothing to do with the fact it appears you are hacking in the game i posted. Can you explain what is this mysterious system you have to follow invisible units through the fog of war, and insta rallying to gas geysers on observer unit pathing? Can you explain following a probe through the fog of war and clicking towards it and changing your unit pathing to get the probe? It's all just going to be luck right? Hind sight 20/20 i should have posted this under a new account perhaps? Because people here are bashing me or saying things that have nothing to do with all of the evidence i have provided. Because TL is the only place to even pretend to have a legitimate discussion in sc2 I will give you a legitimate response. All of the evidence you have suggested is hacks is called "using active units". When you have an active unit like phoenixes you keep them on the map in the most valid locations. Several times you defend/overcharge your natural which forces my phoenixes to find another location to attack, which is obviously the main via the third. You send your probe out directly after overcharging SEVERAL times, to exactly where the logical place for me to move my phoenixes is. Most of those times the probe only enters my vision AFTER I have already sent a command into the main and I pick it up incidentally. Most of the game I did not even realize you had observers, or I would obviously have killed/avoided them. All luck. EDIT: I would argue al;most 500 replays and over 100 hours of games would have more validity than 12 minutes of an offrace PvP. The evidence i have provided shows more than "using active units." It shows that you have knowledge of things in the fog of war that you should have zero knowledge of. You even self admittedly just said you do not even realize observers are on the map, yet your units are always perfectly pathed to them and their destination points, in the most blatant case at 11:29 with pin-point accuracy while your map is not even on the same screen as the command is given. You jump to the observer immediately after as if you know it's there...and then your screen stops when you seem to realize it's an invisible unit on your mini-map, not something that could be attacked. The same thing happens multiple times in the game, with the same set of commands being issued. My patience lasted one post. I look forward to any player of professional experience agreeing with you on the convincing nature of these offences. You, more than anyone here, have the power to "shut Avilo up", if you will, by streaming behind-the-shoulder games at a high level. But like I mentioned earlier, that's completely at your discretion. It's just the best advice I could give to anyone who's accused of hacking (you especially, because of your reputation).
The more you acknowledge him the worse he will get (and others like him). I do my best to stay away from the drama but recently of course it becomes more and more impossible as there are many who literally create or convince themselves of things that are overwhelmingly fake, but go along with the others who are convinced they're true because it is easier.
I am obviously not hacking, nor would I need to to beat Avilo (especially in PvP, I already beat him in ZvT in LOTV as well which makes me surprised a PvP game was chosen as "evidence"). I'm not going to call for mods to delete these posts but I would like to hear the objective analysis of any professional player. Also objectively, if we are using the arguement "Avilo called Polt and Parting a hacker but this time we have to take what he says seriously" then it is hypocritical to use the arguement "Well Winter is a proven viewbotter (despite being cleared by Twitch and Blizzard) so he's probably hacking too."
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On April 12 2015 05:58 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 05:56 nkr wrote:I have played many people that were later found out to be hackers When you're crying hacks every time you lose, you're bound to be right once or twice. What? Are you one of those that spews this bullshit? I rarely ever cry hacks on stream if ever any more. 1-2 months back i played a ton of players from IMBAQQ clan on my stream, as well as a few other random barcodes that were maphackers. Stop spewing your ad hominem bullshit "OH HE CRIES HACKS EVERY 5 SEC ON STREAM" when it is not true. Look at the evidence otherwise please do not even post in this thread.
You accused me of "obviously" having a hack that scans in front of my medivacs whenever I go for a drop.
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On April 12 2015 12:06 WinterStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 12:00 richlol wrote:On April 12 2015 11:56 WinterStarcraft wrote:On April 12 2015 11:55 avilo wrote:On April 12 2015 11:49 WinterStarcraft wrote:On April 12 2015 11:33 avilo wrote:Releasing 200 replays of the past has nothing to do with the fact it appears you are hacking in the game i posted. Can you explain what is this mysterious system you have to follow invisible units through the fog of war, and insta rallying to gas geysers on observer unit pathing? Can you explain following a probe through the fog of war and clicking towards it and changing your unit pathing to get the probe? It's all just going to be luck right? Hind sight 20/20 i should have posted this under a new account perhaps? Because people here are bashing me or saying things that have nothing to do with all of the evidence i have provided. Because TL is the only place to even pretend to have a legitimate discussion in sc2 I will give you a legitimate response. All of the evidence you have suggested is hacks is called "using active units". When you have an active unit like phoenixes you keep them on the map in the most valid locations. Several times you defend/overcharge your natural which forces my phoenixes to find another location to attack, which is obviously the main via the third. You send your probe out directly after overcharging SEVERAL times, to exactly where the logical place for me to move my phoenixes is. Most of those times the probe only enters my vision AFTER I have already sent a command into the main and I pick it up incidentally. Most of the game I did not even realize you had observers, or I would obviously have killed/avoided them. All luck. EDIT: I would argue al;most 500 replays and over 100 hours of games would have more validity than 12 minutes of an offrace PvP. The evidence i have provided shows more than "using active units." It shows that you have knowledge of things in the fog of war that you should have zero knowledge of. You even self admittedly just said you do not even realize observers are on the map, yet your units are always perfectly pathed to them and their destination points, in the most blatant case at 11:29 with pin-point accuracy while your map is not even on the same screen as the command is given. You jump to the observer immediately after as if you know it's there...and then your screen stops when you seem to realize it's an invisible unit on your mini-map, not something that could be attacked. The same thing happens multiple times in the game, with the same set of commands being issued. My patience lasted one post. I look forward to any player of professional experience agreeing with you on the convincing nature of these offences. You, more than anyone here, have the power to "shut Avilo up", if you will, by streaming behind-the-shoulder games at a high level. But like I mentioned earlier, that's completely at your discretion. It's just the best advice I could give to anyone who's accused of hacking (you especially, because of your reputation). The more you acknowledge him the worse he will get (and others like him). I do my best to stay away from the drama but recently of course it becomes more and more impossible as there are many who literally create or convince themselves of things that are overwhelmingly fake, but go along with the others who are convinced they're true because it is easier. I am obviously not hacking, nor would I need to to beat Avilo (especially in PvP, I already beat him in ZvT in LOTV as well which makes me surprised a PvP game was chosen as "evidence"). I'm not going to call for mods to delete these posts but I would like to hear the objective analysis of any professional player. Also objectively, if we are using the arguement "Avilo called Polt and Parting a hacker but this time we have to take what he says seriously" then it is hypocritical to use the arguement "Well Winter is a proven viewbotter (despite being cleared by Twitch and Blizzard) so he's probably hacking too."
Sorry, but once again, those arguments have nothing to do with the evidence provided. Are you going to address the points i made in my last post?
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