On May 28 2012 20:52 whiterabbit wrote: I can accept that Blizzard's anti-hack system is flawed, I can understand they are getting spammed with false reports every minute and that is kinda hard (or at least requires a lot of manpower) for them to pinpoint real hackers BUT how the f*** hackers like this Impa are still playing? He is known hacker for so long, he doesn't even try to hide it and he still has his account intact. Really Blizzard?
Idea that there are hackers in GM is troubling, if you can't globally monitor and fight against hackers from every league at least keep an eye on damn Grandmaster league, it is disgrace having hackers taking GM slots.
I hope many people post on that Bnet forum thread, maybe that will be enough for Blizzard to at least get rid of one known hacker.
Didn't Blizzard or someone say that there will be some tournament where invites will come from top ladder players? If everyone just leaves the game immediately vs Impa he'll go 200-0 and be at top of the GM, maybe that will wake Blizzard up. All that needs to happen is for one map hacker to get an invite...
I've never understood cheaters whether it be steroids, fixing matches, map hacks. You tarnish your legacy forever. And once someone has broken down the psychological barrier that would prevents people from cheating in the first place, it is really easy for them to do it over and over again. The first time is always the hardest and most trying, just like in killing someone.
All that being said, Impa is a horrible player based on that game and the fact he has a bunch of Gold 3vs3 teams confirms this. I'm pretty sure if you just took an expansion and tried to play a straight macro game you'd roll him badly, especially one where you can test his multitasking (or lack thereof). As the game goes on the the fact he can see everything matters less and less.
On May 28 2012 21:46 ButtCraft wrote: Lucifer is a 1200 pt master who hacks.
I'm interested if anyone else has had games against Lucifer in which it seems that he hacks. I've played him many times and he's one of those players who's game sense appears to be 100x better than his other unimpressive skills. His play was very suspicious in a few of the games.
On May 28 2012 22:44 EcstatiC wrote: Does anybody have any replays of IMNesTea hacking? He's from my city and hangs out in the city's channel, and has seemed like a decent guy so far.
I don't have any replays but I played him a few times months ago. He was ridiculously bad mannered, like Combat-EX or Deezer, and it did seem a lot like he hacked.
On May 28 2012 20:52 whiterabbit wrote: I can accept that Blizzard's anti-hack system is flawed, I can understand they are getting spammed with false reports every minute and that is kinda hard (or at least requires a lot of manpower) for them to pinpoint real hackers BUT how the f*** hackers like this Impa are still playing? He is known hacker for so long, he doesn't even try to hide it and he still has his account intact. Really Blizzard?
Idea that there are hackers in GM is troubling, if you can't globally monitor and fight against hackers from every league at least keep an eye on damn Grandmaster league, it is disgrace having hackers taking GM slots.
I hope many people post on that Bnet forum thread, maybe that will be enough for Blizzard to at least get rid of one known hacker.
Didn't Blizzard or someone say that there will be some tournament where invites will come from top ladder players? If everyone just leave the game immediately vs Impa he'll go 200-0 and be at top of the GM, maybe that will wake Blizzard up. All that needs to happen is for one map hacker to get an invite...
I've never understood cheaters whether it be steroids, fixing matches, map hacks. You tarnish your legacy forever.
All that being said, Impa is a horrible player based on that game. I'm pretty sure if you just took an expansion and tried to play a straight macro game you'd roll him badly, especially one where you can test his multitasking (or lack thereof).
Nah the hacker then just gonna decline the invitation and continue to ruin the game for others on ladder, since blizzard don't seem to be doing much about this.
On May 28 2012 20:52 whiterabbit wrote: I can accept that Blizzard's anti-hack system is flawed, I can understand they are getting spammed with false reports every minute and that is kinda hard (or at least requires a lot of manpower) for them to pinpoint real hackers BUT how the f*** hackers like this Impa are still playing? He is known hacker for so long, he doesn't even try to hide it and he still has his account intact. Really Blizzard?
Idea that there are hackers in GM is troubling, if you can't globally monitor and fight against hackers from every league at least keep an eye on damn Grandmaster league, it is disgrace having hackers taking GM slots.
I hope many people post on that Bnet forum thread, maybe that will be enough for Blizzard to at least get rid of one known hacker.
Didn't Blizzard or someone say that there will be some tournament where invites will come from top ladder players? If everyone just leave the game immediately vs Impa he'll go 200-0 and be at top of the GM, maybe that will wake Blizzard up. All that needs to happen is for one map hacker to get an invite...
I've never understood cheaters whether it be steroids, fixing matches, map hacks. You tarnish your legacy forever.
All that being said, Impa is a horrible player based on that game. I'm pretty sure if you just took an expansion and tried to play a straight macro game you'd roll him badly, especially one where you can test his multitasking (or lack thereof).
Nah the hacker then just gonna decline the invitation and continue to ruin the game for others on ladder, since blizzard don't seem to be doing much about this.
Pretty sure if someone is sitting 200-0 on top of the ladder because everyone is refusing to play against the guy and people have showed over and over that he is a map hacker Blizzard would do something about it. It would make them look horrible. You're right though that he would refuse the invite, I didn't think of that.
On May 28 2012 20:52 whiterabbit wrote: I can accept that Blizzard's anti-hack system is flawed, I can understand they are getting spammed with false reports every minute and that is kinda hard (or at least requires a lot of manpower) for them to pinpoint real hackers BUT how the f*** hackers like this Impa are still playing? He is known hacker for so long, he doesn't even try to hide it and he still has his account intact. Really Blizzard?
Idea that there are hackers in GM is troubling, if you can't globally monitor and fight against hackers from every league at least keep an eye on damn Grandmaster league, it is disgrace having hackers taking GM slots.
I hope many people post on that Bnet forum thread, maybe that will be enough for Blizzard to at least get rid of one known hacker.
Didn't Blizzard or someone say that there will be some tournament where invites will come from top ladder players? If everyone just leave the game immediately vs Impa he'll go 200-0 and be at top of the GM, maybe that will wake Blizzard up. All that needs to happen is for one map hacker to get an invite...
I've never understood cheaters whether it be steroids, fixing matches, map hacks. You tarnish your legacy forever.
All that being said, Impa is a horrible player based on that game. I'm pretty sure if you just took an expansion and tried to play a straight macro game you'd roll him badly, especially one where you can test his multitasking (or lack thereof).
Nah the hacker then just gonna decline the invitation and continue to ruin the game for others on ladder, since blizzard don't seem to be doing much about this.
Pretty sure if someone is sitting 200-0 on top of the ladder because everyone is refusing to play against the guy and people have showed over and over that he is a map hacker Blizzard would do something about it. You're right though that he would refuse the invite, I didn't think of that.
But you would never reach him hitting 200/0. It will not be possible to get a consensus among the people his MMR can meet to leave games, so someone will be giving him losses..
Luckily I have yet to notice blatant maphacking (1k EU master, so maybe im too bad :-D), but from wc3 I know how different forms of hacks can ruin ladderfun. Maphack, drophack/laghack, freezehack (your monitor is frozen at whatever you were watching), etc..
If it is as bad as people have it sound, I almost think I'd accept a breach of privacy allowing blizzard to scan computers occasionally to catch these newer hacks.
Edit: Blizzard do react to the in-game report system. Atleast I have had a 24h ban for bad-mouthing an arrogant prick using cheese :-). But I suppose it's easier to monitor bad language than have people watch replays and find signs of maphacking.
On May 28 2012 20:52 whiterabbit wrote: I can accept that Blizzard's anti-hack system is flawed, I can understand they are getting spammed with false reports every minute and that is kinda hard (or at least requires a lot of manpower) for them to pinpoint real hackers BUT how the f*** hackers like this Impa are still playing? He is known hacker for so long, he doesn't even try to hide it and he still has his account intact. Really Blizzard?
Idea that there are hackers in GM is troubling, if you can't globally monitor and fight against hackers from every league at least keep an eye on damn Grandmaster league, it is disgrace having hackers taking GM slots.
I hope many people post on that Bnet forum thread, maybe that will be enough for Blizzard to at least get rid of one known hacker.
Didn't Blizzard or someone say that there will be some tournament where invites will come from top ladder players? If everyone just leave the game immediately vs Impa he'll go 200-0 and be at top of the GM, maybe that will wake Blizzard up. All that needs to happen is for one map hacker to get an invite...
I've never understood cheaters whether it be steroids, fixing matches, map hacks. You tarnish your legacy forever.
All that being said, Impa is a horrible player based on that game. I'm pretty sure if you just took an expansion and tried to play a straight macro game you'd roll him badly, especially one where you can test his multitasking (or lack thereof).
Nah the hacker then just gonna decline the invitation and continue to ruin the game for others on ladder, since blizzard don't seem to be doing much about this.
Pretty sure if someone is sitting 200-0 on top of the ladder because everyone is refusing to play against the guy and people have showed over and over that he is a map hacker Blizzard would do something about it. You're right though that he would refuse the invite, I didn't think of that.
But you would never reach him hitting 200/0. It will not be possible to get a consensus among the people his MMR can meet to leave games, so someone will be giving him losses.
Yeah it is just a funny thought. How bad and funny would it be when someone with Gold level skills shows to Blizzards big invitational...
if you need proof go on google and do a search for 'impa maphacks' you'll find dozens of replays posted
IMNesTea = GameOfDrone (seems like main acc) = Daenerys = HRGzack
This guy always has like 100 apm and hotkeys 12345 at the start of the game ; he will bm you mostly too if hes winning
Any proof on Nestea? He's my teammate and i highly doubt the he woud maphack. He plays very good and he stayed up a whole night just playing to hit gm. So he puts effort into the game, its kind of a silly accusation if you dont have proof. Also Nesteas smurf isint GameOfDrone. It is some IlIlIIl name... But please, if you have proof show it to me and i'll contact our manager!
I remember early WC3 when ALOT of top players (that played good in live turnaments) got caught using map hack. I would be suprised if this wat not the case in sc2 too. Especially with all the "safety" measures apparently built into the hacks and them being available since beta. There have also been a few threads here from the BW days about map hack being a good way to learn timings and improve or not.
Dont get why you would want to map hack, you'll get 50% anyway, ok you'll get it vs GM players instead of mid plat but still.
if you need proof go on google and do a search for 'impa maphacks' you'll find dozens of replays posted
IMNesTea = GameOfDrone (seems like main acc) = Daenerys = HRGzack
This guy always has like 100 apm and hotkeys 12345 at the start of the game ; he will bm you mostly too if hes winning
Any proof on Nestea? He's my teammate and i highly doubt the he woud maphack. He plays very good and he stayed up a whole night just playing to hit gm. So he puts effort into the game, its kind of a silly accusation if you dont have proof. Also Nesteas smurf isint GameOfDrone. It is some IlIlIIl name... But please, if you have proof show it to me and i'll contact our manager!
First of all, there's a million NesTea's out there, and there's a million barcodes (||||||||||) and I meet 2-4 different "GameOfDrones" a month, so, considering that you didn't even know, I wouldn't count on it being your teammate.
if you need proof go on google and do a search for 'impa maphacks' you'll find dozens of replays posted
IMNesTea = GameOfDrone (seems like main acc) = Daenerys = HRGzack
This guy always has like 100 apm and hotkeys 12345 at the start of the game ; he will bm you mostly too if hes winning
Any proof on Nestea? He's my teammate and i highly doubt the he woud maphack. He plays very good and he stayed up a whole night just playing to hit gm. So he puts effort into the game, its kind of a silly accusation if you dont have proof. Also Nesteas smurf isint GameOfDrone. It is some IlIlIIl name... But please, if you have proof show it to me and i'll contact our manager!
First of all, there's a million NesTea's out there, and there's a million barcodes (||||||||||) and I meet 2-4 different "GameOfDrones" a month, so, considering that you didn't even know, I wouldn't count on it being your teammate.
There's only 1 IMNesTea in NA GM ladder, so ya, it's him
if you need proof go on google and do a search for 'impa maphacks' you'll find dozens of replays posted
IMNesTea = GameOfDrone (seems like main acc) = Daenerys = HRGzack
This guy always has like 100 apm and hotkeys 12345 at the start of the game ; he will bm you mostly too if hes winning
Any proof on Nestea? He's my teammate and i highly doubt the he woud maphack. He plays very good and he stayed up a whole night just playing to hit gm. So he puts effort into the game, its kind of a silly accusation if you dont have proof. Also Nesteas smurf isint GameOfDrone. It is some IlIlIIl name... But please, if you have proof show it to me and i'll contact our manager!
I will go through my replays, I have one against him that looked suspicious. He plays Protoss, right? Since TL took down the hacker thread I don't name my vs hacker replays anymore so I hope I can find it.
Nobody literally gives a shit about this. 2 out of 10 games I have obvious maphackers who even admitt using maphack. It doesn't matter because nobody ever got banned using external even if they admit it in the ingame chat. I developed my own maphack, used it and talked about to my opponents without hesitation. Nobody will ever get banned for using a maphack in SC2, that's the reality.
On May 28 2012 23:47 VoO wrote: Nobody literally gives a shit about this. 2 out of 10 games I have obvious maphackers who even admitt using maphack. It doesn't matter because nobody ever got banned using external even if they admit it in the ingame chat. I developed my own maphack, used it and talked about to my opponents without hesitation. Nobody will ever get banned for using a maphack in SC2, that's the reality.
You're wrong, there was a rather large wave of bans last year, too bad for some retarded reason Blizzard decided to only make them into temp bans until the season was over. After that I don't think there has been even a single ban wave done...
On May 28 2012 21:52 .syd. wrote: The problem isn`t Warden. Blizzard could spent tons of effort in improving it and hackers would still break it easily. Actually, Warden isnt as bad as people think it is. Its just a fundamental problem that due to the way programs run on your systems, you can always somehow bypass cheat detections like Warden.
There is, however, quite an obvious technical solution to completely eliminate maphacks: Dont let your client know about the positions of units inside your fog of war. This would render all maphacks largely useless. It also requires that every game is hosted by a centralized server that serves as a "broker" and permanently checks the view if one player and only forwards unit positions accordingly. It makes things a bit more complex and requires more computing power from the Blizzard servers. But nonetheless I think this is the only viable solution.
It's not a viable solution and it's not a question of server power.
Anyone thinking this is viable - do an experiment. Take a big replay with a huge battle and let in run through on x8 speed. Feel the lag? Now imagine that your PC would have to endure this strain every single time an opponent goes in/out of FoW. Every single time you're about to see something move out of FoW, your PC would have to recalculate their positioning and re-render every unit. Keeping in mind that SC2 is already a very demanding game and you'd have this game unplayable even with the most high tier PCs.
P.S. In before "HoN has something like that" - rendering 1-5 units at once is nothing compared to 200/200, especially if they're some shit like BL/Infestor/ling.
How does server-side managed positional information have anything to do with rendering?
Not sure how to respond to this question. Are you trolling me? That's like basics of basics...
If you seriously don't understand, then think of each unit render as typing a large forum post: Right now you only need to type it in once, then just fix typos here and there. With server-side positioning you'd have to re-type it in from scratch every single time you wanted to fix a typo. Not even with ctrl+c/ctrl+v, from scratch.
It sounds like you are in a highschool programming class and don't actually know much about coding or memory management... The base structure that would hold a unit in SC2 would be fairly small, a handful of bytes is all you would likely need. The traffic required to create one would be extremely small, and the traffic to dispose of one would be insignificat. Both combined would be DWARFED by the amount of data that's already being passed from server to client because of people spamming move commands and the like.
The difference is it would take more coding from Blizzard, and some amount of stress on servers. The way that it is now they don't need to do any filtering what so ever. There needs to be no tracking of viewstates of either player. If it happens on the map you can just send it over. The bandwidth needed to just send everything is actually quite small, so it's the fastest and easiest way. Remember, this method was usable on dialup when combined with a large buffer. To control who can see what server side you then need to process what either player is able to see, and then filter based on that. Which I could see being a giant pain to try and optimise. It's going to increase costs for both hosting and programming, so why bother doing it?
Blizzard is stuck in a bad place. They can't blindly trust reports of hacking because there are plenty of sour grapes out there. They can't devote enough manpower to really investigate the hackers because SC2 doesn't make a monthly income for Blizzard. They can't implement programs to sniff out the hacking because many hacks are sophisticated enough that it'd require an illegal breach of privacy to detect. They can't create a hack-proof game because they need to give information to the client (or else have a really laggy and CPU intensive game). So, what can they do?
I've even been wondering for awhile now whether or not some "pros" are actually using hacks in online tournaments. There just seems to be some guys who do really well in the online events, but are a lot worse in live events. This goes for little tournaments like Playhem all the way up to big things like NASL. If you had GM level abilities (but not pro-level) and then tossed some maphack/production hack on top of that, you could easily compete with the best. As long as your cheating was subtle, you could probably get away with it for a long long time and get some money and fame for doing it.
The community needs to remain vigilant to protect the tournaments. As for Blizzard, they should seriously consider setting up a volunteer system to check for maphacks... so that those volunteers can go through the sheer mass of maphack reports and filter out the sour grapes ones. Then have a small group of Blizzard employees make final decisions on cases where the volunteers report that a maphack is used.
EPT
