|
On May 27 2012 12:55 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:02 ThePlayer33 wrote:
they work hard and try win. foreigners are all lazy on the other hand. unless youre a genius(stephano)
its cultural. you simply work harder in an office in south korea and asia than that of US or europe. This post makes me facepalm. You're attaching a huge stigma to an entire group of people based on video game results, when in reality there are as many hard working American/foreigners as there are Koreans. Look at it from a perspective outside of video games before you try to attribute it to culture.
But where I live it is believed that Korea has a strong hardworking workforce in general... So he is applying that to the game because of the environment...
|
National sport or maybe I should say e-sport >_>
|
On May 27 2012 12:55 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:02 ThePlayer33 wrote:
they work hard and try win. foreigners are all lazy on the other hand. unless youre a genius(stephano)
its cultural. you simply work harder in an office in south korea and asia than that of US or europe. This post makes me facepalm. You're attaching a huge stigma to an entire group of people based on video game results, when in reality there are as many hard working American/foreigners as there are Koreans. Look at it from a perspective outside of video games before you try to attribute it to culture.
His comment is certainly poorly worded, but the culture definitively play a role in it. Extreme competitiveness and a glorification of hard work is sort of imposed on everyone in Asia, while the same attitude is somewhat less socially encouraged in NA.
|
On May 27 2012 10:02 ThePlayer33 wrote:
they work hard and try win. foreigners are all lazy on the other hand. unless youre a genius(stephano)
its cultural. you simply work harder in an office in south korea and asia than that of US or europe.
koreans tend to dedicate their life to programing too easily and while there are many more good players than in other countrys there are even more who end up uneducated with no carrer in sc2 leeching of the state/their parents ?
see what i did there ?
|
On May 27 2012 12:43 RavenLoud wrote:
One stereotypical thing I hear a lot is that Koreans tend to view the game in terms of how they can mechanically improve, while foreigners like to look at the overall structure of the game.
E.g. A terran loses a TvZ, the Korean terran will say to himself to improve his marinesplit and macro better, while a foreigner would look at how he can improve his build to have specific units at specific timings and refine his expo timings.
I'm not sure how true this really is, all broad generalizations like this tend to be shaky.
One thing's for sure, Koreans work much harder and live in a very concentrated area where they all have close contact with their highest level peers. Their well established team/coaching infrastructure combined with this concentrated effort is the real reason why they excel at this game.
That's a false dichotomy. Mechanically improving includes figuring out how to improve builds to hit timings, because that's a product of improving your macro.
The way Korean players improve is through specific refinement that most foreigners don't look to do. The way your buildings are placed in a simcity, the way your rally points are set up, the positioning of your units in defense - all of these are nailed down to a precise and exact science, whereas foreigners just sort of do it and hope for the best.
|
Its fun to read through this thread and watch people say what koreans do and don't do in their training without any proof aside from the people linking to interviews.
IMO, within korean culture, it's more acceptable for kids to stay with their parents longer than most other places, thus if a teen wants to pursue pro gaming, they will likely have a fall back plan or at least a place to live. I feel like the gaming houses are a huge plus as opposed to a lot of pro players who are kind of just stuck practicing on their own unless they live in a team house as well. It is NOT CULTURAL OR BASED ON THEIR NATIONALITY. There are plenty of non korean players who practice and work at this game just as hard as the koreans do, and results have shown it. HuK, Stephano, ThorZaiN, Jinro for a time, IdrA sometimes, and others. What you put in is generally what you get.
|
train your APM to the maximun. Analyse your replays and try to understand why your APM go down.
|
On May 27 2012 10:09 Br3ezy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:02 ThePlayer33 wrote:
they work hard and try win. foreigners are all lazy on the other hand. unless youre a genius(stephano)
its cultural. you simply work harder in an office in south korea and asia than that of US or europe. So does that make Bill Gates and Warren Buffet not american? Because they are good at what they do? It is not a cultural scenario that does this, it is your stereotypical mind explaining your biased thoughts on how americans are lower-effecient workers than that of asia or the US. How can you even compare the two accurately? Hell, even the currency isn't the same. What makes you a hard worker is what you put in your environment and other things that are already a part of your life, such as if you had a hard working parent and you saw how hard they worked and it rubbed off on you, that is a positive stimulus in your environment. Foreigners are not lazy on the other hand either. People play more on EU ladder then on KR. Empire.Kas plays so many ladder games a day he always has easily 1k + ladder games. Does this make him lazier and worse then koreans? Does this make him lazier and worse then a fucking diamond korean random player? Foreigners also don't like to win either? Just because koreans try and beat foreigners means that foreigners don't try and therefore lose to koreans and are inferior to them? K.
On May 27 2012 12:55 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:02 ThePlayer33 wrote:
they work hard and try win. foreigners are all lazy on the other hand. unless youre a genius(stephano)
its cultural. you simply work harder in an office in south korea and asia than that of US or europe. This post makes me facepalm. You're attaching a huge stigma to an entire group of people based on video game results, when in reality there are as many hard working American/foreigners as there are Koreans. Look at it from a perspective outside of video games before you try to attribute it to culture.
haha the shitstorm, both of you are from US, sorry you guys are biased.
sorry but it's true, and i am only generalising, ofc there are hard workers around the (lazy parts of the) world.
|
Keep in mind op, almost no one here has insight to that information, so everything you read will be what people from the outside perceive.
I highly recommend reading this blog by qxc http://www.complexitygaming.com/forums/blog.php?b=1981
It covers practice myths, and how some of it really works.
|
On May 27 2012 10:09 Br3ezy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:02 ThePlayer33 wrote:
they work hard and try win. foreigners are all lazy on the other hand. unless youre a genius(stephano)
its cultural. you simply work harder in an office in south korea and asia than that of US or europe. So does that make Bill Gates and Warren Buffet not american? Because they are good at what they do? It is not a cultural scenario that does this, it is your stereotypical mind explaining your biased thoughts on how americans are lower-effecient workers than that of asia or the US. How can you even compare the two accurately? Hell, even the currency isn't the same. What makes you a hard worker is what you put in your environment and other things that are already a part of your life, such as if you had a hard working parent and you saw how hard they worked and it rubbed off on you, that is a positive stimulus in your environment. Foreigners are not lazy on the other hand either. People play more on EU ladder then on KR. Empire.Kas plays so many ladder games a day he always has easily 1k + ladder games. Does this make him lazier and worse then koreans? Does this make him lazier and worse then a fucking diamond korean random player? Foreigners also don't like to win either? Just because koreans try and beat foreigners means that foreigners don't try and therefore lose to koreans and are inferior to them? K.
I see that other people have already quoted and replied, but i just wanted to offer my 2 cents....
Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are abstract individuals from the norm, much like a US president is different from your average US citizen. Culturally, Koreans have a more structured society that leads to a greater skill in starcraft (greater emphasis on analysis and school habits for working and such, afaik) than america does. It is easy for anyone to see, that american culture (IMO) is lazy overall with regards to work ethics.... just look at how hard ANY immegrant works once they enter the country (legally or illegally) compared to your avg. american. (this is coming from a canadian btw, where i see the difference in our society as well). Future generations of north america are getting lazier, because technology allows them to do so and just because we don't have to fight as much. Sure its hard to move up the soc-economic ladder, but basic needs are easily attainable for most of us. That is what we lost when we moved from a devoloping country to a devlolped country. Not that this is a bad thing, but you can see how society is degrading because of it. Sure there will always be the few who are ahead of the pack (bill gates to Stephano if you will), but as a whole, they will be outnumbered (Korean GSL code S roster vs the 3(?) foreigners who will be in it next season). Its just the way our different societies function. Much like asia as a stereo type, contains lots of techno rats, compared to the americas
|
On May 27 2012 14:34 ThePlayer33 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:09 Br3ezy wrote:On May 27 2012 10:02 ThePlayer33 wrote:
they work hard and try win. foreigners are all lazy on the other hand. unless youre a genius(stephano)
its cultural. you simply work harder in an office in south korea and asia than that of US or europe. So does that make Bill Gates and Warren Buffet not american? Because they are good at what they do? It is not a cultural scenario that does this, it is your stereotypical mind explaining your biased thoughts on how americans are lower-effecient workers than that of asia or the US. How can you even compare the two accurately? Hell, even the currency isn't the same. What makes you a hard worker is what you put in your environment and other things that are already a part of your life, such as if you had a hard working parent and you saw how hard they worked and it rubbed off on you, that is a positive stimulus in your environment. Foreigners are not lazy on the other hand either. People play more on EU ladder then on KR. Empire.Kas plays so many ladder games a day he always has easily 1k + ladder games. Does this make him lazier and worse then koreans? Does this make him lazier and worse then a fucking diamond korean random player? Foreigners also don't like to win either? Just because koreans try and beat foreigners means that foreigners don't try and therefore lose to koreans and are inferior to them? K. Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 12:55 Holytornados wrote:On May 27 2012 10:02 ThePlayer33 wrote:
they work hard and try win. foreigners are all lazy on the other hand. unless youre a genius(stephano)
its cultural. you simply work harder in an office in south korea and asia than that of US or europe. I agree. Saying there are as many hard workers in SK and US is a lie imo. Per capita, US is lazy (like canada) so i kinda call false on that one.... I know, because I work in forestry, one of the most demanding industries in canada, and I don't consider myself that much of a worker... but compared to most people my age, I am.... It is a sad state to be in This post makes me facepalm. You're attaching a huge stigma to an entire group of people based on video game results, when in reality there are as many hard working American/foreigners as there are Koreans. Look at it from a perspective outside of video games before you try to attribute it to culture. haha the shitstorm, both of you are from US, sorry you guys are biased. sorry but it's true, and i am only generalising, ofc there are hard workers around the (lazy parts of the) world.
|
It's really really simple. Work ethic and infrastructure.
Koreans treat BW/SC2/LoL as their job. Many foreigners are pretty unprofessional and can best be described as 'hey I can make some money playing video games... sweet!'
Koreans have gaming houses where they can easily practice and discuss. They also have structure. Foreigners don't have the infrastructure to train as effectively and typically adhere to 'gamer structure' (junk food + terrible sleeping/exercise habits).
|
On May 27 2012 14:28 Gyro_SC2 wrote:
train your APM to the maximun. Analyse your replays and try to understand why your APM go down.
Can't tell if you're serious or not... sadly
|
How to be a Korean Pro in SC1
1. Grind ladder games like Fish
2. Try to reach the equivalent of A+ iccup level in Fish
3. Register to "Courage tournament" (an amateur tournament where players are all around A/A+ level)
4. Win the tournament and get your progaming license
5. Get drafted to the B-team (benchwarming team) of a pro-team
6. Grind games 10-12 hours while cleaning your teamate's toilets+underwears
7. Get a good win ratio in in-house ranking games if you want to play team leagues
8. Otherwise, try to qualify for individual leagues
Interesting facts
-The best achievement by a foreigner in Courage is 2nd place (by Nony)
-The best achievement IdrA had in the OSL qualifiers was getting to the 2nd round of the qualifiers (he never got past the 1st round of the qualifiers in all of his previous tries)
-DongRaeGu, the Zerg SC2 god, had a 3-33 record in the in-house ranking games in the CJ B-team
So yeah, although not pleasant, that's how SC2 celebrities were in Broodwar,
The path of being a SC1 progamer is pretty brutal, and those who manage to play televised games are already hardcore. SC1 practice regiments are inhumane by SC2 standards, but they give us good games. (Kind of like gladiators lol). There's a huge difference between progamers and amateurs in BW because you actually have to earn a license to be called progamer by winning a tough amateur tournament. BW pros are like the Ivy Leaguers / special forces of e-sports, they're famous not because they're great personalities, but because they have gone through tough obstacles (the list I mentioned above) that no one has ever gone through. They are the best of the best
|
On May 27 2012 15:38 ppshchik wrote:
How to be a Korean Pro in SC1
1. Grind ladder games like Fish
2. Try to reach the equivalent of A+ iccup level in Fish
3. Register to "Courage tournament" (an amateur tournament where players are all around A/A+ level)
4. Win the tournament and get your progaming license
5. Get drafted to the B-team (benchwarming team) of a pro-team
6. Grind games 10-12 hours while cleaning your teamate's toilets+underwears
7. Get a good win ratio in in-house ranking games if you want to play team leagues
8. Otherwise, try to qualify for individual leagues
Interesting facts
-The best achievement by a foreigner in Courage is 2nd place (by Nony)
-The best achievement IdrA had in the OSL qualifiers was getting to the 2nd round of the qualifiers (he never got past the 1st round of the qualifiers in all of his previous tries)
-DongRaeGu, the Zerg SC2 god, had a 3-33 record in the in-house ranking games in the CJ B-team
So yeah, although not pleasant, that's how SC2 celebrities were in Broodwar,
The path of being a SC1 progamer is pretty brutal, and those who manage to play televised games are already hardcore. SC1 practice regiments are inhumane by SC2 standards, but they give us good games. (Kind of like gladiators lol). There's a huge difference between progamers and amateurs in BW because you actually have to earn a license to be called progamer by winning a tough amateur tournament. BW pros are like the Ivy Leaguers / special forces of e-sports, they're famous not because they're great personalities, but because they have gone through tough obstacles (the list I mentioned above) that no one has ever gone through. They are the best of the best
In Korea you forgot that there were/are also amateur houses, where the best players in the house could have a trial with a pro-team to become a practice partner or if you do really well a b-teamer. Also didn't Assem or somebody win Courage? Also teams have some licences to give out in a year, IdrA for example got one in eStro.
|
On May 27 2012 10:00 ReachTheSky wrote:
Eating habits are VERY IMPORTANT!
I recommend eating all organic foods if possible. No preservatives. No fast food or junk food. Water shall be your beverage. Drink it freely. No soda. No caffeine etc. None of that garbage. Salad should be the base of your main course. Eat chicken. Avoid red meats, eat them sparingly. Almonds, carrots, fruits all make great snacks.
Here is a sample of my eating regiment:
Breakfast- 1-2 eggwhites scrambled on wheat bread(good for your heart),2-3 slices of turkey bacon(yes its processed but its much better for you than regular bacon), Glass of OJ and a piece of fruit. A granny smith apple will wake you up better than one cup of coffee. A couple hours later I eat a snack. Its usually a yogurt. Make sure your yogurt contains probiotics. Avoid eating yogurt or any foods that contain Aspertame(that shit causes cancer). Then lunch. Turkey sammitch! No condoments, except spicy brown mustard(its completely natural). Only 1 slice of cheese. A couple hours later its snack time again. Carrots and almonds. Dinner: Salad is always the main dish. Do not use store bought dressing, its all garbage and very unhealthy. There are a few organic types that are good for you. I recommend getting dressign recipes online. Add some chicken to the salad if you would like(hell i usually do!). There are plenty of healthy side dishes out there. a couple hours later i have another snack. Bananas fruit vegies w/e. Fruits/vegs/nuts should always be your preferred choice for snacks. Never consume food 2 hours before bed. Always drink 2 cups of water within 30 minutes of waking up. Drink 2 cups before sleep and always consume it throughout the day. This is just an example of a very healthy eating lifestyle. You can still eat out, but very very sparingly, maybe once or twice a month. Remember, stay away from food with additives/preservatives. Avoid processed foods, or eat them minimally. I believe turkey bacon is the only processed food i eat now. Fish is great for you.
Dude I have no idea about your Starcraft coaching either way ...
... but if we ever start up a practice house, you are a shoe-in for head chef 
That is all spot on right there.
|
On May 27 2012 13:07 ymir233 wrote:... a cultural/religious influence, really - the whole Confucian/Buddhist "working is most of it" mindset that's been ingrained for so long versus the more vaguely-set Abrahamic religions that have mainly settled in the Western Hemisphere.
Again, a more complicated handwave to explain the "hardworking Koreans" stereotype, but one that does have some weight in terms of generalizations.
ie .... as far as I know, none of my ancestors FELL ON A SWORD when they lost face, lost a job, or lost a game.
Its just not in our DNA lol.
|
On May 27 2012 10:02 ThePlayer33 wrote:
they work hard and try win. foreigners are all lazy on the other hand. unless youre a genius(stephano)
its cultural. you simply work harder in an office in south korea and asia than that of US or europe.
Now, explain why Korea sdoesn`t dominate anything else, save for esports.
|
Unless you are able to talk to some korean starcraft pro gaming coach like Oov than there is no way you can learn how they practice their games.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
