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On May 12 2012 07:50 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:47 ThE_OsToJiY wrote:
too soon to say I think...
Against protoss queens are pretty bad for dps anyways (die to 1 zealot), I think the bigger problem is zvt where hellions are almost useless earlygame. queens are ment to tank vs 4gate pressure, with transfusion + a good creep spread u can hold off any 4gate pressure super effectively.. so u could basically open 3hatch into ling speed into a 4th hatch before lairing up now, once u hold the pressure off u can start droning up with 4 hatchs while spreading creep all over the map, gives u so much map control
I don't understand the logic in this.
How did queens suddenly get overpowered when they are meant to tank damage? Do you mean that they got overpowered because suddenly zergs decided to build more of them? I mean if you are saying that queens are used to soak up zealot damage while lings surround them, how did this change with them getting a range buff?
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give more times, if this buff is too much more complains will come in. One day isnt nearly enough to come to conclusion.
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I don`t know if anyone mentioned this, but I think it`s more important that you can not scout the zerg gas timings with a probe anymore. Not that that would happen against a good zerg but it required good positioning where as now even bad zergs can kill your probe easily.
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I can see why the guy's name is TT.
User was warned for this post
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If TT1 spent more time working on mechanics and practicing rather than crying imba he might find himself more well known in the foreign scene rather than "that one guy who once was in the GSL super tournament and got replaced by Koreans in FnaticMSI". I don't mean to be rude but this is NOT the first post where TT1 has been complaining about things like this. I mean this kind of mindset of placing blame externally on the game or other people, rather than yourself is the reason korean's dominate the scene. The realize the only way to get to the top is hard work, whereas the foreign scene is rampant with people looking for some gimmick to get easy wins or worrying about the latest gimmick.
Legit discussion ehhh:
TT1 on the Queen Buff:
"
IS FUCKING OP, plz revert the change back cus theres no way to harass zerg in the early game anymore.. mass queens r owning everything
thx
"
-TT1
Queen range buff thread
What would a korean do? Play a fuckton of games and keep working on builds rather than crying imba "THREE" days after release, i'm ashamed of the work ethic of the majority of our foreign players ( wonder why foreign teams bought alot of koreans?). While foreign players like TT1 are considered "pros" there is nothing "professional" about them.
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On May 12 2012 15:07 RedDragon571 wrote:
If TT1 spent more time working on mechanics and practicing rather than crying imba. I don't mean to be rude but this is NOT the first post where TT1 has been complaining about things like this. I mean this kind of mindset of placing blame externally on the game or other people, rather than yourself is the reason korean's dominate the scene. The realize the only way to get to the top is hard work, whereas foreign players is rampant with people looking for some gimmick to get easy wins or worrying about the latest gimmick.
Legit discussion ehhh:
"
IS FUCKING OP, plz revert the change back cus theres no way to harass zerg in the early game anymore.. mass queens r owning everything
thx
"
-TT1 Queen range buff thread
What would a korean do? Play a fuckton of games and keep working on builds rather than crying imba 4 days after release, i'm ashamed of the work ethic of the majority of our foreign players ( wonder why foreign teams bought alot of koreans?). While foreign players like TT1 are considered "pros" there is nothing "professional" about them.
i can cry while practicing at the same time, i usually start my day off with a bit of whining then i spend the rest of the day training
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I see no compelling argument here. Nothing but a whine. Stargate openings are now weaker because queen's got a ground range buff? Really? Did you even put thought into that point? This is far from a "legit discussion," but that's not for me to decide......
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On May 12 2012 15:12 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 15:07 RedDragon571 wrote:
If TT1 spent more time working on mechanics and practicing rather than crying imba. I don't mean to be rude but this is NOT the first post where TT1 has been complaining about things like this. I mean this kind of mindset of placing blame externally on the game or other people, rather than yourself is the reason korean's dominate the scene. The realize the only way to get to the top is hard work, whereas foreign players is rampant with people looking for some gimmick to get easy wins or worrying about the latest gimmick.
Legit discussion ehhh:
"
IS FUCKING OP, plz revert the change back cus theres no way to harass zerg in the early game anymore.. mass queens r owning everything
thx
"
-TT1 Queen range buff thread
What would a korean do? Play a fuckton of games and keep working on builds rather than crying imba 4 days after release, i'm ashamed of the work ethic of the majority of our foreign players ( wonder why foreign teams bought alot of koreans?). While foreign players like TT1 are considered "pros" there is nothing "professional" about them. i can cry while practicing at the same time, i usually start my day off with a bit of whining then i spend the rest of the day training
I am not trying to be a dick, I understand if posting on TL is a way to release stress then fine, I just don't want another foreign progamer representing the World vs Korea, to be voicing these frustrations with such poor thought and little effort, having obviously not put forth necessary effort to figure out the implications of the new changes (its been about 3 days man). The public forum isnt the place for that, The strategy forum is having a lovely discussion on the queen range buff, we could use less people like you HERE and more people like you THERE! I hope you do spend the rest of the day training, because the sc2 foreign scene is being replaced by the korean scene (you were after all, no offence). frankly, I like rooting for foreigners cause I am a foreigners and korean winner interview live translation sucks alot of ________ anyway. I am a fan of you TT1, just like I am a fan of InControl and every other foreigner who has potential but doesn't put forth the effort or has too many mental blocks to realize what hard work can actually accomplish.
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On May 12 2012 15:18 Mr Showtime wrote:
I see no compelling argument here. Nothing but a whine. Stargate openings are now weaker because queen's got a ground range buff? Really? Did you even put thought into that point? This is far from a "legit discussion," but that's not for me to decide...... Are you joking? Stargate openers are weaker because to defend against ground pressure all zerg has to do is make queens, which cost no gas and no larva. Also those queens defend against air attacks.
Like I know it might actually take some thought to form that together, but please think about it before you post that stargate openers aren't indirectly affected by this change.
On topic, the worst part about this change is that it takes away any zerg decision making on whether to make drones or defending units because all they need now is a lot of queens.
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On May 12 2012 15:21 RedDragon571 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 15:12 mTwTT1 wrote:On May 12 2012 15:07 RedDragon571 wrote:
If TT1 spent more time working on mechanics and practicing rather than crying imba. I don't mean to be rude but this is NOT the first post where TT1 has been complaining about things like this. I mean this kind of mindset of placing blame externally on the game or other people, rather than yourself is the reason korean's dominate the scene. The realize the only way to get to the top is hard work, whereas foreign players is rampant with people looking for some gimmick to get easy wins or worrying about the latest gimmick.
Legit discussion ehhh:
"
IS FUCKING OP, plz revert the change back cus theres no way to harass zerg in the early game anymore.. mass queens r owning everything
thx
"
-TT1 Queen range buff thread
What would a korean do? Play a fuckton of games and keep working on builds rather than crying imba 4 days after release, i'm ashamed of the work ethic of the majority of our foreign players ( wonder why foreign teams bought alot of koreans?). While foreign players like TT1 are considered "pros" there is nothing "professional" about them. i can cry while practicing at the same time, i usually start my day off with a bit of whining then i spend the rest of the day training I am not trying to be a dick, I understand if posting on TL is a way to release stress then fine, I just don't want another foreign progamer representing the World vs Korea, to be voicing these frustrations with such poor thought and little effort, having obviously not put forth necessary effort to figure out the implications of the new changes (its been about 3 days man). The public forum isnt the place for that, The strategy forum is having a lovely discussion on the queen range buff, we could use less people like you HERE and more people like you THERE! I hope you do spend the rest of the day training, because the sc2 foreign scene is being replaced by the korean scene (you were after all, no offence). frankly, I like rooting for foreigners cause I am a foreigners and korean winner interview live translation sucks alot of ________ anyway.
You're not being a dick. Only restating a truth that has been told too many times to count at this point. It's okay though. Some people do not learn.
On May 12 2012 15:22 aHaTsc wrote:
Are you joking? Stargate openers are weaker because to defend against ground pressure all zerg has to do is make queens, which cost no gas and no larva. Also those queens defend against air attacks.
Like I know it might actually take some thought to form that together, but please think about it before you post that stargate openers aren't indirectly affected by this change.
On topic, the worst part about this change is that it takes away any zerg decision making on whether to make drones or defending units because all they need now is a lot of queens.
That's a small change in the meta-game. Not a severe balance issue. And you are kidding yourself if you think queens are that good now.
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On May 12 2012 15:07 RedDragon571 wrote:
If TT1 spent more time working on mechanics and practicing rather than crying imba he might find himself more well known in the foreign scene rather than "that one guy who once was in the GSL super tournament and got replaced by Koreans in FnaticMSI". I don't mean to be rude but this is NOT the first post where TT1 has been complaining about things like this. I mean this kind of mindset of placing blame externally on the game or other people, rather than yourself is the reason korean's dominate the scene. The realize the only way to get to the top is hard work, whereas the foreign scene is rampant with people looking for some gimmick to get easy wins or worrying about the latest gimmick.
Legit discussion ehhh:
TT1 on the Queen Buff:
"
IS FUCKING OP, plz revert the change back cus theres no way to harass zerg in the early game anymore.. mass queens r owning everything
thx
"
-TT1
Queen range buff thread
What would a korean do? Play a fuckton of games and keep working on builds rather than crying imba "THREE" days after release, i'm ashamed of the work ethic of the majority of our foreign players ( wonder why foreign teams bought alot of koreans?). While foreign players like TT1 are considered "pros" there is nothing "professional" about them.
I mean yes he may be crying imbalance to some degree, however unlike a lot of the community and even pro players hes making statements and backing them with actual discussion, and if you think that a lot of the top end players don't cry about imbalance then look again.
I've seen tons of twitter posts of top Koreans and even GSL champions complaining, (Nestea, DRG, MVP, etc) I mean hell even Flash complained about Protoss in his most recent interview. I mean obviously practicing a lot is always a good thing but there comes a point where frustration of something you may deem unfair can get in the way of that, as a pro player it is their job to overcome this, however I see no problem what so ever with addressing your concerns and sparking discussion. A problem occurs when you take the Idra approach and simply stop practicing and even trying in a certain match up because you think it's impossible to win in.
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On May 12 2012 15:23 Mr Showtime wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 15:21 RedDragon571 wrote:On May 12 2012 15:12 mTwTT1 wrote:On May 12 2012 15:07 RedDragon571 wrote:
If TT1 spent more time working on mechanics and practicing rather than crying imba. I don't mean to be rude but this is NOT the first post where TT1 has been complaining about things like this. I mean this kind of mindset of placing blame externally on the game or other people, rather than yourself is the reason korean's dominate the scene. The realize the only way to get to the top is hard work, whereas foreign players is rampant with people looking for some gimmick to get easy wins or worrying about the latest gimmick.
Legit discussion ehhh:
"
IS FUCKING OP, plz revert the change back cus theres no way to harass zerg in the early game anymore.. mass queens r owning everything
thx
"
-TT1 Queen range buff thread
What would a korean do? Play a fuckton of games and keep working on builds rather than crying imba 4 days after release, i'm ashamed of the work ethic of the majority of our foreign players ( wonder why foreign teams bought alot of koreans?). While foreign players like TT1 are considered "pros" there is nothing "professional" about them. i can cry while practicing at the same time, i usually start my day off with a bit of whining then i spend the rest of the day training I am not trying to be a dick, I understand if posting on TL is a way to release stress then fine, I just don't want another foreign progamer representing the World vs Korea, to be voicing these frustrations with such poor thought and little effort, having obviously not put forth necessary effort to figure out the implications of the new changes (its been about 3 days man). The public forum isnt the place for that, The strategy forum is having a lovely discussion on the queen range buff, we could use less people like you HERE and more people like you THERE! I hope you do spend the rest of the day training, because the sc2 foreign scene is being replaced by the korean scene (you were after all, no offence). frankly, I like rooting for foreigners cause I am a foreigners and korean winner interview live translation sucks alot of ________ anyway. You're not being a dick. Only restating a truth that has been told too many times to count at this point. It's okay though. Some people do not learn. Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 15:22 aHaTsc wrote:
Are you joking? Stargate openers are weaker because to defend against ground pressure all zerg has to do is make queens, which cost no gas and no larva. Also those queens defend against air attacks.
Like I know it might actually take some thought to form that together, but please think about it before you post that stargate openers aren't indirectly affected by this change.
On topic, the worst part about this change is that it takes away any zerg decision making on whether to make drones or defending units because all they need now is a lot of queens.
That's a small change in the meta-game. Not a severe balance issue.
Like, honestly I bet TT1 hasn't even tried to do a 4 gate with fucking +1 armor instead of attack. Like that simple thing means the queens damage is cut in HALF. 2 x 4, ---> 2 x 2 and lings do 1 less damage also. Like jesus christ zealots would be impossible to kill without roaches. Not saying it's a good idea, but so many things haven't been tested because enough time hasn't passed.
This is still strategy forum stuff, I think post like these should be made if the strategy forums comes up with shit nothing after a month and zergs have an actual > 50% winrate Z v P in the TLPD statistics.
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My hope is that zerg suddenly get overconfident and build like, 3 queens as defense rather than the infinitely better spine crawlers. Which means when I turn up with 8 hellions and a few marines rather than 4, they die instantly.
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The Queen buff makes hellion/reaper opening virtually useless 
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On May 12 2012 15:26 Braric wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 15:07 RedDragon571 wrote:
If TT1 spent more time working on mechanics and practicing rather than crying imba he might find himself more well known in the foreign scene rather than "that one guy who once was in the GSL super tournament and got replaced by Koreans in FnaticMSI". I don't mean to be rude but this is NOT the first post where TT1 has been complaining about things like this. I mean this kind of mindset of placing blame externally on the game or other people, rather than yourself is the reason korean's dominate the scene. The realize the only way to get to the top is hard work, whereas the foreign scene is rampant with people looking for some gimmick to get easy wins or worrying about the latest gimmick.
Legit discussion ehhh:
TT1 on the Queen Buff:
"
IS FUCKING OP, plz revert the change back cus theres no way to harass zerg in the early game anymore.. mass queens r owning everything
thx
"
-TT1
Queen range buff thread
What would a korean do? Play a fuckton of games and keep working on builds rather than crying imba "THREE" days after release, i'm ashamed of the work ethic of the majority of our foreign players ( wonder why foreign teams bought alot of koreans?). While foreign players like TT1 are considered "pros" there is nothing "professional" about them. I mean yes he may be crying imbalance to some degree, however unlike a lot of the community and even pro players hes making statements and backing them with actual discussion, and if you think that a lot of the top end players don't cry about imbalance then look again. I've seen tons of twitter posts of top Koreans and even GSL champions complaining, (Nestea, DRG, MVP, etc) I mean hell even Flash complained about Protoss in his most recent interview. I mean obviously practicing a lot is always a good thing but there comes a point where frustration of something you may deem unfair can get in the way of that, as a pro player it is their job to overcome this, however I see no problem what so ever with addressing your concerns and sparking discussion. A problem occurs when you take the Idra approach and simply stop practicing and even trying in a certain match up because you think it's impossible to win in.
I agree, I mean it's human to complain and vent frustration, but this is more a case of crying wolf, and crying it too early. The thing is the general sc2 forum is a terrible place for a "Legit" discussion. In the Strategy forum right now there are guys like Cecil, Belial, KcDc, Alejandrisha and so so many others having a useful discussion without worrying about the imbalance bullshit and fucking testing it too. Flash complained about toss, and Firebathhero complained about Terran, they are newer to the game than anyone, and its far too soon to know how they will end up.
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On May 12 2012 15:29 RedDragon571 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 15:23 Mr Showtime wrote:On May 12 2012 15:21 RedDragon571 wrote:On May 12 2012 15:12 mTwTT1 wrote:On May 12 2012 15:07 RedDragon571 wrote:
If TT1 spent more time working on mechanics and practicing rather than crying imba. I don't mean to be rude but this is NOT the first post where TT1 has been complaining about things like this. I mean this kind of mindset of placing blame externally on the game or other people, rather than yourself is the reason korean's dominate the scene. The realize the only way to get to the top is hard work, whereas foreign players is rampant with people looking for some gimmick to get easy wins or worrying about the latest gimmick.
Legit discussion ehhh:
"
IS FUCKING OP, plz revert the change back cus theres no way to harass zerg in the early game anymore.. mass queens r owning everything
thx
"
-TT1 Queen range buff thread
What would a korean do? Play a fuckton of games and keep working on builds rather than crying imba 4 days after release, i'm ashamed of the work ethic of the majority of our foreign players ( wonder why foreign teams bought alot of koreans?). While foreign players like TT1 are considered "pros" there is nothing "professional" about them. i can cry while practicing at the same time, i usually start my day off with a bit of whining then i spend the rest of the day training I am not trying to be a dick, I understand if posting on TL is a way to release stress then fine, I just don't want another foreign progamer representing the World vs Korea, to be voicing these frustrations with such poor thought and little effort, having obviously not put forth necessary effort to figure out the implications of the new changes (its been about 3 days man). The public forum isnt the place for that, The strategy forum is having a lovely discussion on the queen range buff, we could use less people like you HERE and more people like you THERE! I hope you do spend the rest of the day training, because the sc2 foreign scene is being replaced by the korean scene (you were after all, no offence). frankly, I like rooting for foreigners cause I am a foreigners and korean winner interview live translation sucks alot of ________ anyway. You're not being a dick. Only restating a truth that has been told too many times to count at this point. It's okay though. Some people do not learn. On May 12 2012 15:22 aHaTsc wrote:
Are you joking? Stargate openers are weaker because to defend against ground pressure all zerg has to do is make queens, which cost no gas and no larva. Also those queens defend against air attacks.
Like I know it might actually take some thought to form that together, but please think about it before you post that stargate openers aren't indirectly affected by this change.
On topic, the worst part about this change is that it takes away any zerg decision making on whether to make drones or defending units because all they need now is a lot of queens.
That's a small change in the meta-game. Not a severe balance issue. Like, honestly I bet TT1 hasn't even tried to do a 4 gate with fucking +1 armor instead of attack. Like that simple thing means the queens damage is cut in HALF. 2 x 4, ---> 2 x 2 and lings do 1 less damage also. Like jesus christ zealots would be impossible to kill without roaches. This is still strategy forum stuff, I think post like these should be made if the strategy forums comes up with shit nothing after a month and zergs have an actual > 50% winrate Z v P in the TLPD statistics.
Come to think about it, the SC2 strategy section is taking over the SC2 general lol. Why exactly is this in SC2 general?
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On May 12 2012 15:35 Integra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 15:29 RedDragon571 wrote:On May 12 2012 15:23 Mr Showtime wrote:On May 12 2012 15:21 RedDragon571 wrote:On May 12 2012 15:12 mTwTT1 wrote:On May 12 2012 15:07 RedDragon571 wrote:
If TT1 spent more time working on mechanics and practicing rather than crying imba. I don't mean to be rude but this is NOT the first post where TT1 has been complaining about things like this. I mean this kind of mindset of placing blame externally on the game or other people, rather than yourself is the reason korean's dominate the scene. The realize the only way to get to the top is hard work, whereas foreign players is rampant with people looking for some gimmick to get easy wins or worrying about the latest gimmick.
Legit discussion ehhh:
"
IS FUCKING OP, plz revert the change back cus theres no way to harass zerg in the early game anymore.. mass queens r owning everything
thx
"
-TT1 Queen range buff thread
What would a korean do? Play a fuckton of games and keep working on builds rather than crying imba 4 days after release, i'm ashamed of the work ethic of the majority of our foreign players ( wonder why foreign teams bought alot of koreans?). While foreign players like TT1 are considered "pros" there is nothing "professional" about them. i can cry while practicing at the same time, i usually start my day off with a bit of whining then i spend the rest of the day training I am not trying to be a dick, I understand if posting on TL is a way to release stress then fine, I just don't want another foreign progamer representing the World vs Korea, to be voicing these frustrations with such poor thought and little effort, having obviously not put forth necessary effort to figure out the implications of the new changes (its been about 3 days man). The public forum isnt the place for that, The strategy forum is having a lovely discussion on the queen range buff, we could use less people like you HERE and more people like you THERE! I hope you do spend the rest of the day training, because the sc2 foreign scene is being replaced by the korean scene (you were after all, no offence). frankly, I like rooting for foreigners cause I am a foreigners and korean winner interview live translation sucks alot of ________ anyway. You're not being a dick. Only restating a truth that has been told too many times to count at this point. It's okay though. Some people do not learn. On May 12 2012 15:22 aHaTsc wrote:
Are you joking? Stargate openers are weaker because to defend against ground pressure all zerg has to do is make queens, which cost no gas and no larva. Also those queens defend against air attacks.
Like I know it might actually take some thought to form that together, but please think about it before you post that stargate openers aren't indirectly affected by this change.
On topic, the worst part about this change is that it takes away any zerg decision making on whether to make drones or defending units because all they need now is a lot of queens.
That's a small change in the meta-game. Not a severe balance issue. Like, honestly I bet TT1 hasn't even tried to do a 4 gate with fucking +1 armor instead of attack. Like that simple thing means the queens damage is cut in HALF. 2 x 4, ---> 2 x 2 and lings do 1 less damage also. Like jesus christ zealots would be impossible to kill without roaches. This is still strategy forum stuff, I think post like these should be made if the strategy forums comes up with shit nothing after a month and zergs have an actual > 50% winrate Z v P in the TLPD statistics. Come to think about it, the SC2 strategy section is taking over the SC2 general lol. Why exactly is this in SC2 general?
God knows, theres been at least 3 threads in the strat section on the same topic infinitely more useful than this one. I honestly think the casual players and lower league players have all dropped out. As a result the serious players not stricken with ladder fear and enough time and patience to get to masters have turned to create a thriving community in the strategy section.
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Why can't we play the game to see if it's game breaking and go from there... I mean a theoretical discussion isn't as helpful as practice.
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There is nothing but crying in this thread.
People arguing that zergs will start building more queens to begin with to hold off stargate pressure is dumb. If you build to many queens then 2 base all in attacks simply won't be defendable because queens aren't quite up to par with a roach.
Stop whining about 4 gate pressure as well. Oh no, one of your all in builds has become slightly less effective.
You aren't going to see people spamming queens in ZvP.... it's impossible because 2 base attacks are to strong to be held off by queens. You will see alot more queens made in ZvT but that's fair enough, marauder/hellion pushes were way to strong for zerg to handle without having to screw up their own economy just to defend against it.
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I play terran and haven't encountered any problems with queens. Hellion run byes and drops will still clean them up quick. I don't mind the change.
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EPT
