Groundbreaking Collaboration to Kick Off With KeSPA Players Participating in a StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty Expo Tournament at the MLG Spring Championship on June 9 at 9pm PT
New York – May 11, 2012 –Major League Gaming (MLG), the world’s largest competitive video game league, and the Korean eSports Association (KeSPA), announced today an exclusive multi-year global partnership that will bridge the Western and Korean StarCraft worlds. As part of the collaboration, KeSPA players will compete in MLG events—marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
The partnership will kick off at the MLG Spring Championship in Anaheim, CA on Saturday, June 9 at 9pm PT, when KeSPA Pro players will compete in a StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty exhibition tournament. Participants will be selected from the top KeSPA teams; the players will be announced in the coming weeks. Spectator Passes for the event are now available online. For those not attending in person, the expo match and the entire Spring Championship will be broadcast LIVE online via HD streams at www.majorleaguegaming.com.
“We are thrilled to be partnering with the most prestigious eSports league in the world, and feel our partnership will forever change competitive gaming,” said Sundance DiGiovanni, CEO of Major League Gaming. “KeSPA has long been a true leader in this industry and has been instrumental in its success, and this is just the beginning of our work together. We look forward to continued growth and expansion in the years to come.”
“We are pleased to join with MLG to bring the best players in the world to the international stage,” said Lee Young Hee, President of KeSPA. “Together, KeSPA and MLG are building the global future of our sport.”
The Spring Championship on June 8-10 is expected to be the largest Pro Circuit competition in the ten-year history of MLG. Thousands of fans will descend upon the Anaheim Convention Center, and millions more will watch online as the world’s best players compete. Spectator Passes are now available.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
SO dammn nice that the whole Kespa vs the west bullshit finally is over! the SC community )includes Starcraft1, Broodwar and Starcraft2 is finally at peace!!
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
Jokes aside, fantastic news. KeSPA players playing exhibition matches at Anaheim has been speculated so hard, so it's good to see that the speculation is true.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
This is great. I'm curious as to whether "exclusive" means we won't be seeing these players anywhere internationally other than MLG.. I sure as hell hope that isn't the case.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
They obviously meant they haven't been to a US based tournament. WCG isn't US based.
While we pretty much knew this, its awesome that everything is signed and that its multi-year. I look forward to seeing who will be at Anaheim. I also wonder if we will see MLG on OGN.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
They obviously meant they haven't been to a US based tournament. WCG isn't US based.
While probably true it's kinda misleading lol. I reacted to it too (EDIT: oh yea blizzcon)
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
...Blizzcon?
Sick announcement though. Looking forward to that special tournament
Exhibition sounds like a good idea. Wouldn't want the legend/myth being dimmed by a Flash or Jaedong getting beaten by Destiny in the regular MLG open bracket. They'll need time to learn the game.
I'm sure this will be far better than that Boxer v Yellow showmatch
On May 11 2012 15:17 babylon wrote: I feel like I should be more hyped for this, but I can't help but feel the exhibition matches are gonna be a disappointment. :/
Tune in to OGN in a couple of weeks to get a sneak peek at what the exhibition matches could look like via the hybrid SC2/BW Proleague.
I'm crossing my fingers for some great players and games, though I'm afraid that Flash and others may be busy with OSL in full swing.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
They obviously meant they haven't been to a US based tournament. WCG isn't US based.
It clearly says video game tournament IN the United states, not BASED in the United states.
This means there will be three tournaments going on at MLG Anaheim: the winter championships, the WCS US Finals, and this exhibition tournament. Not to mention we will probably see HotS show matches.
Hm I wonder who else is going into the exhibition tournament, and when are they going to broadcast all of this? MLG already stretches what most would consider common sense with it's scheduling for a weekend. Should be sick though.
I'm guessing this means no KeSPA players at IPL. Hopefully they can sign with a European partner as well, or MLG "hosts" a tournament in Europe at a Dreamhack or something.
On May 11 2012 15:21 Davis23 wrote: Expect to see some terrible play. Expect Terrans stimming up the choke into FFs etc. It will be fun to watch how BW players fail in SC2.
It's not like they've been stuck watching vods from last year, mistakes are more likely to be execution rather than tactical/strategic.
Expected. Good news but, how do we know that the sc1 players are worth the money? People already travel from everywhere to see the current sc2 players. On top of that the sc1 players are currently practicing both BW and SC2 because of the proleague format and the current OSL. Honestly the broodwar players will take a while to get to a super high level. They probably will not win any championships any time soon. Still, I hope that the kespa players are able to go to other tournaments as well such as IPL and dreamhack.
Should be interesting how the scene changes over the year.
On May 11 2012 15:22 neoghaleon55 wrote: fucking sick. I hope KeSPA's ready to get their ass handed by DRG and MarineKing. <33
Nah, I'd want some foreigners playing them. All the more to delight if foreigners win over supposed the "elite" of gaming as they are far too hyped up as.
before people flip out about the word "exclusive" we don't know exactly what the exclusive is referring to. It could be about the players. Or it could be that MLG can't make a deal with GOM and Kespa can't make a deal with IGN/DH/etc which is guaranteeing Kespa players at these foreign events.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
Jokes aside, fantastic news. KeSPA players playing exhibition matches at Anaheim has been speculated so hard, so it's good to see that the speculation is true.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
They obviously meant they haven't been to a US based tournament. WCG isn't US based.
isnt it a bit to early ? i mean with such less practice, i cant see them beat naniwa huk and other top foreigns and its sad see guys like flash get roflstomped by foreign players sorry to say i not wanna see flash vs Drewbie 0-2 ...
I thought the KeSPA players are going to do a BW showmatch. They just started to play SC2 for about one month or so, and the MLG guys brought them to the US to do SC2 showmatches? NA master players can beat the hell out of them.
I get it. There will be only KeSPA guys fighting KeSPA guys. Ok. That's a relief.
ooo I feel a bit sad for Gom. It's like MLG is the dude and they dumped Gom for the hotter and more "exprienced" Kespa. Maybe cos I joined the bandwagon when SC2 came out and wasn't a fan of SC BW.
I really hope that "exclusive" thing doesn't mean that BW players are only allowed to go to MLG as a foreign tournament. If that's the case, all the talk about "we want all tournaments to grow and succeed" is just pure and utter bullshit. I really hope that won't happen.
On May 11 2012 15:30 larse wrote: I thought the KeSPA players are going to do a BW showmatch. They just started to play SC2 for about one month or so, and the MLG guys brought them to the US to do SC2 showmatches? NA master players can beat the hell out of them.
I get it. There will be only KeSPA guys fighting KeSPA guys. Ok. That's a relief.
On May 11 2012 15:30 Seekzor wrote: I really hope that "exclusive" thing doesn't mean that BW players are only allowed to go to MLG as a foreign tournament. If that's the case, all the talk about "we want all tournaments to grow and succeed" is just pure and utter bullshit. I really hope that won't happen.
They want all tournaments to succeed on their own without BW pros .
more dance:
Sundance DiGiovanni @MLGSundance
No comment on the exclusivity other than to say that it is exclusive. jumbo shrimp. pretty ugly. knife to a gun fight and all that stuff.
On May 11 2012 15:30 Seekzor wrote: I really hope that "exclusive" thing doesn't mean that BW players are only allowed to go to MLG as a foreign tournament. If that's the case, all the talk about "we want all tournaments to grow and succeed" is just pure and utter bullshit. I really hope that won't happen.
From the ways KeSPA did things, I would say KeSPA players will be MLG exclusive, for a long long time.
This is really great news. Kespa joining up with a big organization like MLG surely means that they really intend to include the foreign audience. Wonder which players will make the trip to Anaheim.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
"Exclusive" and "multi-year" are both bad things IMO. I actually have a hard time believing that Kespa would do this, to limit their players to a single foreign tournament for multiple years. There has to be more to this.
But great for MLG, they pretty much secure themselves exclusive rights for determining the "world champion". It's not like foreigners will be competing in proleague.
i guess now we can only hope for a superbowl-esque mega event, where everyone is invited to play each other in a tournament and we can see which league/organizations players reign supreme!
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
On May 11 2012 15:15 IMNasty wrote: so exclusive partnership means no chance the players are allowed to go to DH, IPL, IEM, assembly etc.?
Wow, this news is a big bummer if so. The best part about the growing Starcraft community is seeing brand new tournaments emerge every year, each with its own style and atmosphere. Lone Star and Iron Squid. Homestory. Dreamhacks. NASL. So many different flavors and new ones popping up every week.
Can you imagine if the US. Open got 'exclusive' rights to Roger Federer? Very strange model.
Awesome news! Glad to have it confirmed, can't wait for the actual names to come out.
Seems like MLG fired a few too many of their writers, however. Blatantly wrong info (since when is MLG bigger than Proleague? and KeSPA players have played BW in the US since 2004 =/) in an announcement post is really annoying, and it still hasn't been edited. Bad form.
On May 11 2012 15:30 larse wrote: I thought the KeSPA players are going to do a BW showmatch. They just started to play SC2 for about one month or so, and the MLG guys brought them to the US to do SC2 showmatches? NA master players can beat the hell out of them.
I get it. There will be only KeSPA guys fighting KeSPA guys. Ok. That's a relief.
You really think NA masters player can beat them? Guys that are already matched up against SC2 Korean pros?
On May 11 2012 15:36 yoshi_yoshi wrote: "Exclusive" and "multi-year" are both bad things IMO. I actually have a hard time believing that Kespa would do this, to limit their players to a single foreign tournament for multiple years. There has to be more to this.
But great for MLG, they pretty much secure themselves exclusive rights for determining the "world champion". It's not like foreigners will be competing in proleague.
While I don't like that it seems to be exclusive it isn't a surprise at all. Kespa wants their players under full control.
This is awesome news for MLG. But exclusive? really? i dont like the sound of that, dont like it at all. If its something related to seeding mlg player into kespa run tournament.. thats fine. But if Kespa player are not allowed to play anywhere except MLG and Kespa stuff, thats bad. But i guess Bw players could actualy leave kespa now since they might have somewhere to go..
On May 11 2012 15:15 IMNasty wrote: so exclusive partnership means no chance the players are allowed to go to DH, IPL, IEM, assembly etc.?
Wow, this news is a big bummer if so. The best part about the growing Starcraft community is seeing brand new tournaments emerge every year, each with its own style and atmosphere. Lone Star and Iron Squid. Homestory. Dreamhacks. NASL. So many different flavors and new ones popping up every week.
Can you imagine if the US. Open got 'exclusive' rights to Roger Federer? Very strange model.
sounds like MLG wanted to get the jump on the imminent new era of SC2 by securing the BW pros. not sure what to make of sundance's latest tweet
so basically mlg is shelling out some big bucks to rent kespa's players for events. of course they (mlg) want to protect their investment by having exclusivity, which was probably a lesson they learned over the past 2 years when some well-known players skipped their events in favor of others. (dreamhack, ipl, assembly etc)
On May 11 2012 15:38 rUiNati0n wrote: Any word on if MLG is going to do anythhing with other KeSPA games?
Well, it says specifically in the announcement "announced today an exclusive multi-year global partnership that will bridge the Western and Korean StarCraft worlds." So I doubt it.
Plus, most KeSPA games aren't relevant enough to be at an MLG, like Special Force or Kart Rider or FIFA. But League of Legends is recently a KeSPA game as of last February, and since MLG is going to try out LoL soon at Anaheim, this could potentially be an interesting part of this partnership.
On May 11 2012 15:45 bagina wrote: so basically mlg is shelling out some big bucks to rent kespa's players for events. of course they (mlg) want to protect their investment by having exclusivity, which was probably a lesson they learned over the past 2 years when some well-known players skipped their events in favor of others. (dreamhack, ipl, assembly etc)
atleast thats my understanding of it!
Sounds about right to me, shitty for the viewers and people who will never be able to make an MLG to meet these guys in person.
On May 11 2012 15:15 IMNasty wrote: so exclusive partnership means no chance the players are allowed to go to DH, IPL, IEM, assembly etc.?
Wow, this news is a big bummer if so. The best part about the growing Starcraft community is seeing brand new tournaments emerge every year, each with its own style and atmosphere. Lone Star and Iron Squid. Homestory. Dreamhacks. NASL. So many different flavors and new ones popping up every week.
Can you imagine if the US. Open got 'exclusive' rights to Roger Federer? Very strange model.
sounds like MLG wanted to get the jump on the imminent new era of SC2 by securing the BW pros. not sure what to make of sundance's latest tweet
It seems like such an obviously bad idea for the long term health of the game that I still kinda doubt that what's they mean here. Sure, it gives you a short term boost relative to other tournaments perhaps. But that sort of insularity will hinder growth in the Starcraft community in the long term.
If MLG cared about the long term growth of the Starcraft community they wouldn't be having all these PPV arenas.
On May 11 2012 15:15 IMNasty wrote: so exclusive partnership means no chance the players are allowed to go to DH, IPL, IEM, assembly etc.?
Wow, this news is a big bummer if so. The best part about the growing Starcraft community is seeing brand new tournaments emerge every year, each with its own style and atmosphere. Lone Star and Iron Squid. Homestory. Dreamhacks. NASL. So many different flavors and new ones popping up every week.
Can you imagine if the US. Open got 'exclusive' rights to Roger Federer? Very strange model.
sounds like MLG wanted to get the jump on the imminent new era of SC2 by securing the BW pros. not sure what to make of sundance's latest tweet
It seems like such an obviously bad idea for the long term health of the game that I still kinda doubt that what's they mean here. Sure, it gives you a short term boost relative to other tournaments perhaps. But that sort of insularity will hinder growth in the Starcraft community in the long term.
Maybe they just mean that Kespa players will always choose an MLG event any conflicting alternatives that weekend. It just seems nuts that they'd have players pretend the rest of the Starcraft world doesn't exist!
Exclusivity is a bad bad approach. They talk about wanting to expand to the global audience and the first thing they do is go with MLG exclusively?
You can bet MLG has put a large chunk of that extra funding they got into this. Question is, will it buy them the success they want? Or have they just limited the Kespa players from the number of tournaments they can enter and therefore the prize money they can win?
I hope it's not the tournament buying "exclusivity" rights with their players, and for example prevent players attending MLG to attend an IPL or a Dreamhack. It looks more and more like we're going to have a "war" between IPL and MLG, and it's not good for the scene ..
On May 11 2012 15:49 Jetaap wrote: I hope it's not the tournament buying "exclusivity" rights with their players, and for example prevent players attending MLG to attend an IPL or a Dreamhack. It looks more and more like we're going to have a "war" between IPL and MLG, and it's not good for the scene ..
competition is FANTASTIC for the scene. Competition forces leagues to improve and grow, if everyone is doing just as good as each other, there's no motivation to improve beyond greed.
On May 11 2012 15:49 Jetaap wrote: I hope it's not the tournament buying "exclusivity" rights with their players, and for example prevent players attending MLG to attend an IPL or a Dreamhack. It looks more and more like we're going to have a "war" between IPL and MLG, and it's not good for the scene ..
competition is FANTASTIC for the scene. Competition forces leagues to improve and grow, if everyone is doing just as good as each other, there's no motivation to improve beyond greed.
Having two distinct leagues where players cant compete in each other tournaments doesnt seem that great.
On May 11 2012 15:49 Jetaap wrote: I hope it's not the tournament buying "exclusivity" rights with their players, and for example prevent players attending MLG to attend an IPL or a Dreamhack. It looks more and more like we're going to have a "war" between IPL and MLG, and it's not good for the scene ..
competition is FANTASTIC for the scene. Competition forces leagues to improve and grow, if everyone is doing just as good as each other, there's no motivation to improve beyond greed.
There is no competing if they are the only foreign tournament that will ever have Flash Bisu Jaedong and Stork at it.
On May 11 2012 15:51 JackDT wrote: Multi-year exclusive contracts are how business AVOID competition. See EA buying exclusive rights to make NFL games so there are no competitors, etc.
On May 11 2012 15:51 JackDT wrote: Multi-year exclusive contracts are how business AVOID competition. See EA buying exclusive rights to make NFL games so there are no competitors, etc.
Its also a really good business move.
It's also a really bad thing for the consumers of the product (hint: That's you and me)
I wish people would stop saying that Kespa players are locked down to only MLG. It isnt confirmed or even mentioned. The only word is exclusive and were not 100% sure what that means
The didn't announce the specifics of the exclusivity. It could mean that MLG would be the only foreign tournament where the winner gets a pro-gaming license to be able to join KeSPA run events or something.
I really hope that we are all reading this long, but what else could exclusive mean in this context? If true this is fucking stupid. I wouldn't have as much of a problem if this was a 6 month deal but a multi-year dear? Goddamnit.
On May 11 2012 15:51 JackDT wrote: Multi-year exclusive contracts are how business AVOID competition. See EA buying exclusive rights to make NFL games so there are no competitors, etc.
Its also a really good business move.
It's also a really bad thing for the consumers of the product (hint: That's you and me)
It may not be a great thing for us no, but are we going to boycott Kespa and MLG because of this? Im for sure not going to.
MLG wants to grow esports, but they also are a business with the goal of making money, and getting an exclusive contract for these players looks like it could give them a leg up over other leagues
On May 11 2012 15:49 Jetaap wrote: I hope it's not the tournament buying "exclusivity" rights with their players, and for example prevent players attending MLG to attend an IPL or a Dreamhack. It looks more and more like we're going to have a "war" between IPL and MLG, and it's not good for the scene ..
competition is FANTASTIC for the scene. Competition forces leagues to improve and grow, if everyone is doing just as good as each other, there's no motivation to improve beyond greed.
The idea of this is to limit competition by eliminating the competing head line tournaments, or at least their prominence.. i hope this ends up well >.<
Well, I just have to chime in as well. Good deal and I hope KeSPA does it right this time. I just really want to see the wall of "kespa players" go away like it is everywhere else. I hope this is a first step and It will be exciting to see who is coming to play.
SO dammn nice that the whole Kespa vs the west bullshit finally is over! the SC community )includes Starcraft1, Broodwar and Starcraft2 is finally at peace!!
not quite yet still the battle rages on between BW fans and SC2 fans sadly i dont think they will ever come to peace
Goddamnit, usually I live near Anaheim, but I am out of the country right now. If Jaedong is playing Starcraft 2 at the Spring Tournament and I miss it...I do not know if I will cry or break shit. Or both.
I just hope MLG up their production a bit for this. I love MLG but their award ceremonies are always horrible and awkward. Please learn a thing or two from Dreamhack and GSL!
On May 11 2012 15:51 JackDT wrote: Multi-year exclusive contracts are how business AVOID competition. See EA buying exclusive rights to make NFL games so there are no competitors, etc.
Its also a really good business move.
It's also a really bad thing for the consumers of the product (hint: That's you and me)
Of what product? As consumers of MLG it's clearly a really good thing. If you're projecting "the product" to include every other tournament, that's clearly not MLG's responsibility as a business.
On May 11 2012 15:51 JackDT wrote: Multi-year exclusive contracts are how business AVOID competition. See EA buying exclusive rights to make NFL games so there are no competitors, etc.
Its also a really good business move.
It's also a really bad thing for the consumers of the product (hint: That's you and me)
It may not be a great thing for us no, but are we going to boycott Kespa and MLG because of this? Im for sure not going to.
MLG wants to grow esports, but they also are a business with the goal of making money, and getting an exclusive contract for these players looks like it could give them a leg up over other leagues
I am far more likely to support Dreamhack now, especially given MLG's oft greedy business tactics. And yeah, businesses are supposed to make money - but cooperation helps everyone and is more ethical.
June 11 is my high school graduation -_- that means graduation rehearsal during MLG weekend; even worse, I was planning on going with bunch of friends when the circuit schedule was first announced
On May 11 2012 16:01 Valikyr wrote: I just hope MLG up their production a bit for this. I love MLG but their award ceremonies are always horrible and awkward. Please learn a thing or two from Dreamhack and GSL!
And the MLG's new Korean qualifier VODs use some low graphic settings. It's so not professional. And ob's camera is also too great to catch some important moments.
On May 11 2012 15:51 JackDT wrote: Multi-year exclusive contracts are how business AVOID competition. See EA buying exclusive rights to make NFL games so there are no competitors, etc.
Its also a really good business move.
It's also a really bad thing for the consumers of the product (hint: That's you and me)
It may not be a great thing for us no, but are we going to boycott Kespa and MLG because of this? Im for sure not going to.
MLG wants to grow esports, but they also are a business with the goal of making money, and getting an exclusive contract for these players looks like it could give them a leg up over other leagues
I am far more likely to support Dreamhack now, especially given MLG's oft greedy business tactics. And yeah, businesses are supposed to make money - but cooperation helps everyone and is more ethical.
Hey guys. Even if MLG wanted to allow Kespa players participate in other NA tournaments, Kespa simple won't allow that.
Kespa is always very conservative and kinda isolated. I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
On May 11 2012 15:51 JackDT wrote: Multi-year exclusive contracts are how business AVOID competition. See EA buying exclusive rights to make NFL games so there are no competitors, etc.
Its also a really good business move.
It's also a really bad thing for the consumers of the product (hint: That's you and me)
It may not be a great thing for us no, but are we going to boycott Kespa and MLG because of this? Im for sure not going to.
MLG wants to grow esports, but they also are a business with the goal of making money, and getting an exclusive contract for these players looks like it could give them a leg up over other leagues
I am far more likely to support Dreamhack now, especially given MLG's oft greedy business tactics. And yeah, businesses are supposed to make money - but cooperation helps everyone and is more ethical.
Hey guys. Even if MLG wanted to allow Kespa players participate in other NA tournaments, Kespa simple won't allow that.
Kespa is always very conservative and kinda isolated. I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
This is very likly the case. MLG didn't force the GSL into exclusive BS contracts.
Regardless, KeSPA is bad for SC2. Very bad. I hope GSL players decide to totally skip MLG events now because of KeSPA.
On May 11 2012 15:51 JackDT wrote: Multi-year exclusive contracts are how business AVOID competition. See EA buying exclusive rights to make NFL games so there are no competitors, etc.
Its also a really good business move.
It's also a really bad thing for the consumers of the product (hint: That's you and me)
It may not be a great thing for us no, but are we going to boycott Kespa and MLG because of this? Im for sure not going to.
MLG wants to grow esports, but they also are a business with the goal of making money, and getting an exclusive contract for these players looks like it could give them a leg up over other leagues
I am far more likely to support Dreamhack now, especially given MLG's oft greedy business tactics. And yeah, businesses are supposed to make money - but cooperation helps everyone and is more ethical.
Hey guys. Even if MLG wanted to allow Kespa players participate in other NA tournaments, Kespa simple won't allow that.
Kespa is always very conservative and kinda isolated. I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
This is very likly the case. MLG didn't force the GSL into exclusive BS contracts.
Regardless, KeSPA is bad for SC2. Very bad. I hope GSL players decide to totally skip MLG events now because of KeSPA.
Actually am I the only one dont like it? I mean, we lately had been overflow with SCII content , and I Think that is part of the reason that the stream viewers are getting lower there is SO much content and the players are so expose that they lose the value of exclusivity. I hoped that with the BW switch and they playing just on OGN Proleague and OSL not moving out and not streaming there would be some exclusivity back again. Nowadays even boxer streamed time to time. I dont feel the same if I can access MKP stream that easy, I am not as excited when he shows up in a tournament. Even more on the topic, If I were kespa I wouldnt agree, and also Im not sure if in one month the top kespa SCII players will be able to put up an actual show in SCII, when we have been watching it for that long with really top players.
SO dammn nice that the whole Kespa vs the west bullshit finally is over! the SC community )includes Starcraft1, Broodwar and Starcraft2 is finally at peace!!
not quite yet still the battle rages on between BW fans and SC2 fans sadly i dont think they will ever come to peace
On May 11 2012 15:30 Bart wrote: ooo I feel a bit sad for Gom. It's like MLG is the dude and they dumped Gom for the hotter and more "exprienced" Kespa. Maybe cos I joined the bandwagon when SC2 came out and wasn't a fan of SC BW.
Yeah... this is me... an SC2 fan that feels somewhat indebted to Gom for GSL. So the question on my mind is if Kespa SC2 proleague and GSL were to air at the same time, which do you watch?
My view on the exclusivity is if it is MLG who wanted it then I'm a bit disappointed in them. If it was Kespa then I'd say I'm not surprised.
Shouldn't be to pessimistic as we don't know what "exclusive" means yet, but if KeSPA becomes the powerhouse in SC2 as it is in BW then it could be bad news. If every decent Korean pro is signed with KeSPA, and the only foreign tourney they're allowed to enter is MLG, then that's pretty much GG for Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, HSC, Iron Squid and whatever. Great for MLG, terrible for the scene.
On May 11 2012 15:51 JackDT wrote: Multi-year exclusive contracts are how business AVOID competition. See EA buying exclusive rights to make NFL games so there are no competitors, etc.
Its also a really good business move.
It's also a really bad thing for the consumers of the product (hint: That's you and me)
It may not be a great thing for us no, but are we going to boycott Kespa and MLG because of this? Im for sure not going to.
MLG wants to grow esports, but they also are a business with the goal of making money, and getting an exclusive contract for these players looks like it could give them a leg up over other leagues
I am far more likely to support Dreamhack now, especially given MLG's oft greedy business tactics. And yeah, businesses are supposed to make money - but cooperation helps everyone and is more ethical.
Hey guys. Even if MLG wanted to allow Kespa players participate in other NA tournaments, Kespa simple won't allow that.
Kespa is always very conservative and kinda isolated. I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
This is very likly the case. MLG didn't force the GSL into exclusive BS contracts.
Regardless, KeSPA is bad for SC2. Very bad. I hope GSL players decide to totally skip MLG events now because of KeSPA.
isn't it too soon for kespa bw players to play tourneys, i mean they said it themselves there not ready, unless they've been trolling us -____________-
On May 11 2012 16:15 vik7 wrote: isn't it too soon for kespa bw players to play tourneys, i mean they said it themselves there not ready, unless they've been trolling us -____________-
They're not playing in the MLG championships, they're playing in an exhibition tourney
On May 11 2012 16:14 mireath wrote: Shouldn't be to pessimistic as we don't know what "exclusive" means yet, but if KeSPA becomes the powerhouse in SC2 as it is in BW then it could be bad news. If every decent Korean pro is signed with KeSPA, and the only foreign tourney they're allowed to enter is MLG, then that's pretty much GG for Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, HSC, Iron Squid and whatever. Great for MLG, terrible for the scene.
Last I checked, MLG doesn't hold tournaments every weekend of the year. There is still plenty of space for these tournaments to exist.
I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
You think wrong!
OK. Then why MLG didn't sign a exclusive contract with GSL?
Maybe they tried? MLG also signed halo players to exclusivity, effectively killing off any competition since they weren't allowed to go to other tournaments.
On May 11 2012 16:14 mireath wrote: Shouldn't be to pessimistic as we don't know what "exclusive" means yet, but if KeSPA becomes the powerhouse in SC2 as it is in BW then it could be bad news. If every decent Korean pro is signed with KeSPA, and the only foreign tourney they're allowed to enter is MLG, then that's pretty much GG for Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, HSC, Iron Squid and whatever. Great for MLG, terrible for the scene.
Last I checked, MLG doesn't hold tournaments every weekend of the year. There is still plenty of space for these tournaments to exist.
that's funny because the past two MLG arenas have been on the same weekend as other tournaments...hmm..yeah room for everyone I guess.
On May 11 2012 16:19 Rakett wrote: so now we know why tastosis isnt at the mlg arena. (because they're gom)
No they aren't going to the spring arena because the GSL finals are on the same weekend and they have to be in Korea to do that, but you might be right that they won't do MLG anymore once this kicks in.
On May 11 2012 16:14 mireath wrote: Shouldn't be to pessimistic as we don't know what "exclusive" means yet, but if KeSPA becomes the powerhouse in SC2 as it is in BW then it could be bad news. If every decent Korean pro is signed with KeSPA, and the only foreign tourney they're allowed to enter is MLG, then that's pretty much GG for Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, HSC, Iron Squid and whatever. Great for MLG, terrible for the scene.
Last I checked, MLG doesn't hold tournaments every weekend of the year. There is still plenty of space for these tournaments to exist.
My point was that they aren't quite as interesting if top Koreans aren't allowed to participate
I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
You think wrong!
OK. Then why MLG didn't sign a exclusive contract with GSL?
Maybe they tried? MLG also signed halo players to exclusivity, effectively killing off any competition since they weren't allowed to go to other tournaments.
Really halo players couldn't play in any other tourneys only mlg? lol that's kind of retarded xD
On May 11 2012 16:15 vik7 wrote: isn't it too soon for kespa bw players to play tourneys, i mean they said it themselves there not ready, unless they've been trolling us -____________-
They're not playing in the MLG championships, they're playing in an exhibition tourney
ooh ok thanks, that made me feel a little better, last thing i want is for legends like flash, bisu, jaedong etc, to be manhandled =(
On May 11 2012 16:14 mireath wrote: Shouldn't be to pessimistic as we don't know what "exclusive" means yet, but if KeSPA becomes the powerhouse in SC2 as it is in BW then it could be bad news. If every decent Korean pro is signed with KeSPA, and the only foreign tourney they're allowed to enter is MLG, then that's pretty much GG for Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, HSC, Iron Squid and whatever. Great for MLG, terrible for the scene.
Last I checked, MLG doesn't hold tournaments every weekend of the year. There is still plenty of space for these tournaments to exist.
But they have to exist without alot of the top end korean talent. We have already seen that tournements without the top Koreans produce significantly fewers stream views.
Thankfully gom teams/players are not under any exclusive deal so these tourneys will be fine for awhile
I'm glad they're not playing HotS, but I'm sad they won't be playing against any current SC2 pros. I wanted to see how they'd measure up against the current SC2 pros. Hopefully, however, the casters will be able to give us an estimation on how good they actually are
Omg. Omg. Omg. This is perfect. My friends and I had decided to drive down for MLG Spring championships for our first ever live/big SC2 event like a couple hours before they even announced this. Yesss!!! :D
On May 11 2012 15:15 IMNasty wrote: so exclusive partnership means no chance the players are allowed to go to DH, IPL, IEM, assembly etc.?
Wow, this news is a big bummer if so. The best part about the growing Starcraft community is seeing brand new tournaments emerge every year, each with its own style and atmosphere. Lone Star and Iron Squid. Homestory. Dreamhacks. NASL. So many different flavors and new ones popping up every week.
Can you imagine if the US. Open got 'exclusive' rights to Roger Federer? Very strange model.
sounds like MLG wanted to get the jump on the imminent new era of SC2 by securing the BW pros. not sure what to make of sundance's latest tweet
It seems like such an obviously bad idea for the long term health of the game that I still kinda doubt that what's they mean here. Sure, it gives you a short term boost relative to other tournaments perhaps. But that sort of insularity will hinder growth in the Starcraft community in the long term.
Maybe they just mean that Kespa players will always choose an MLG event any conflicting alternatives that weekend. It just seems nuts that they'd have players pretend the rest of the Starcraft world doesn't exist!
JP tweeted that big news was coming, and TL was going to blow up. An then the story came out and I was like, what? We all knew this coming, big deal.
But the exclusivity part is what he meant. That's a huge change to way we've always done SC2 stuff. Terrible IMO. I find myself suddenly hoping that open organizations like the GSL crush Kespa and MLG. And especially the homegrown stuff like LoneStar and Iron Squid.
On May 11 2012 16:26 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: Omg. Omg. Omg. This is perfect. My friends and I had decided to drive down for MLG Spring championships for our first ever live/big SC2 event like a couple hours before they even announced this. Yesss!!! :D
You'll have the time of your life, MLG events are awesome.
I will answar u with the post I wrote in the other page.
On May 11 2012 16:14 DreamOen wrote: Actually am I the only one dont like it? I mean, we lately had been overflow with SCII content , and I Think that is part of the reason that the stream viewers are getting lower there is SO much content and the players are so expose that they lose the value of exclusivity. I hoped that with the BW switch and they playing just on OGN Proleague and OSL not moving out and not streaming there would be some exclusivity back again. Nowadays even boxer streamed time to time. I dont feel the same if I can access MKP stream that easy, I am not as excited when he shows up in a tournament. Even more on the topic, If I were kespa I wouldnt agree, and also Im not sure if in one month the top kespa SCII players will be able to put up an actual show in SCII, when we have been watching it for that long with really top players.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
On May 11 2012 16:14 mireath wrote: Shouldn't be to pessimistic as we don't know what "exclusive" means yet, but if KeSPA becomes the powerhouse in SC2 as it is in BW then it could be bad news. If every decent Korean pro is signed with KeSPA, and the only foreign tourney they're allowed to enter is MLG, then that's pretty much GG for Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, HSC, Iron Squid and whatever. Great for MLG, terrible for the scene.
Last I checked, MLG doesn't hold tournaments every weekend of the year. There is still plenty of space for these tournaments to exist.
that's funny because the past two MLG arenas have been on the same weekend as other tournaments...hmm..yeah room for everyone I guess.
On May 11 2012 16:19 Rakett wrote: so now we know why tastosis isnt at the mlg arena. (because they're gom)
No they aren't going to the spring arena because the GSL finals are on the same weekend and they have to be in Korea to do that, but you might be right that they won't do MLG anymore once this kicks in.
And the events were all very successful. As long as MLG Championship events aren't conflicting with other major events, its not as big of a problem as people think it is. MLG Spring Arena 1 had the top talent, yet DH still had 65k viewers. These smaller 8 man and 32 man tournaments dont kill other events on the same weekend. Especially European events which wouldn't have a much player crossover.
The exclusivity is interesting. I'm assuming this to mean that none of Kespa players will be able to participate in any other foreign events. No dreamhack, IPL, NASL, IEM or Assembly. The multi-year is someone interesting as well. If the broodwar pros do manage to get to the point where they are dominating again, they would be quite highly demanded and anticipated all around.
On May 11 2012 16:14 mireath wrote: Shouldn't be to pessimistic as we don't know what "exclusive" means yet, but if KeSPA becomes the powerhouse in SC2 as it is in BW then it could be bad news. If every decent Korean pro is signed with KeSPA, and the only foreign tourney they're allowed to enter is MLG, then that's pretty much GG for Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, HSC, Iron Squid and whatever. Great for MLG, terrible for the scene.
Last I checked, MLG doesn't hold tournaments every weekend of the year. There is still plenty of space for these tournaments to exist.
that's funny because the past two MLG arenas have been on the same weekend as other tournaments...hmm..yeah room for everyone I guess.
On May 11 2012 16:19 Rakett wrote: so now we know why tastosis isnt at the mlg arena. (because they're gom)
No they aren't going to the spring arena because the GSL finals are on the same weekend and they have to be in Korea to do that, but you might be right that they won't do MLG anymore once this kicks in.
And the events were all very successful. As long as MLG Championship events aren't conflicting with other major events, its not as big of a problem as people think it is. MLG Spring Arena 1 had the top talent, yet DH still had 65k viewers. These smaller 8 man and 32 man tournaments dont kill other events on the same weekend. Especially European events which wouldn't have a much player crossover.
While It's true it didn't hurt them that much It's not a good thing that these things happen, if a free to watch MLG event with BW pros gets scheduled on the same weekend as a big European tournament then what happens? I just don't like where this is headed. While It's not yet obvious that MLG is trying to kill off other tournaments I bet a lot of people feel that way.
On May 11 2012 16:14 mireath wrote: Shouldn't be to pessimistic as we don't know what "exclusive" means yet, but if KeSPA becomes the powerhouse in SC2 as it is in BW then it could be bad news. If every decent Korean pro is signed with KeSPA, and the only foreign tourney they're allowed to enter is MLG, then that's pretty much GG for Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, HSC, Iron Squid and whatever. Great for MLG, terrible for the scene.
Last I checked, MLG doesn't hold tournaments every weekend of the year. There is still plenty of space for these tournaments to exist.
that's funny because the past two MLG arenas have been on the same weekend as other tournaments...hmm..yeah room for everyone I guess.
On May 11 2012 16:19 Rakett wrote: so now we know why tastosis isnt at the mlg arena. (because they're gom)
No they aren't going to the spring arena because the GSL finals are on the same weekend and they have to be in Korea to do that, but you might be right that they won't do MLG anymore once this kicks in.
And the events were all very successful. As long as MLG Championship events aren't conflicting with other major events, its not as big of a problem as people think it is. MLG Spring Arena 1 had the top talent, yet DH still had 65k viewers. These smaller 8 man and 32 man tournaments dont kill other events on the same weekend. Especially European events which wouldn't have a much player crossover.
While It's true it didn't hurt them that much It's not a good thing that these things happen, if a free to watch MLG event with BW pros gets scheduled on the same weekend as a big European tournament then what happens? I just don't like where this is headed. While It's not yet obvious that MLG is trying to kill off other tournaments I bet a lot of people feel that way.
Leagues WILL consolidate as the scene and competition grows. Like people complain, there's oversaturation already. The leagues that can avoid that and also force even more top names into their events will keep growing.
Does this mean no Tasteless/Artosis/DRG/MKP etc. at MLG?
That's enough to make me not tune in. Let me know when kespa gets memorable casters. I want to see the BW players as much as anyone else, but we have storylines and histories with the GSL players.
On May 11 2012 15:15 IMNasty wrote: so exclusive partnership means no chance the players are allowed to go to DH, IPL, IEM, assembly etc.?
Wow, this news is a big bummer if so. The best part about the growing Starcraft community is seeing brand new tournaments emerge every year, each with its own style and atmosphere. Lone Star and Iron Squid. Homestory. Dreamhacks. NASL. So many different flavors and new ones popping up every week.
Can you imagine if the US. Open got 'exclusive' rights to Roger Federer? Very strange model.
sounds like MLG wanted to get the jump on the imminent new era of SC2 by securing the BW pros. not sure what to make of sundance's latest tweet
It seems like such an obviously bad idea for the long term health of the game that I still kinda doubt that what's they mean here. Sure, it gives you a short term boost relative to other tournaments perhaps. But that sort of insularity will hinder growth in the Starcraft community in the long term.
Maybe they just mean that Kespa players will always choose an MLG event any conflicting alternatives that weekend. It just seems nuts that they'd have players pretend the rest of the Starcraft world doesn't exist!
JP tweeted that big news was coming, and TL was going to blow up. An then the story came out and I was like, what? We all knew this coming, big deal.
But the exclusivity part is what he meant. That's a huge change to way we've always done SC2 stuff. Terrible IMO. I find myself suddenly hoping that open organizations like the GSL crush Kespa and MLG. And especially the homegrown stuff like LoneStar and Iron Squid.
But what were you expecting, really? That MC will go up against Obama in the 2012 elections? This announcement is huge even though it was allready rumored.
On May 11 2012 16:38 Autun wrote: Does this mean no Tasteless/Artosis/DRG/MKP etc. at MLG?
That's enough to make me not tune in. Let me know when kespa gets memorable casters. I want to see the BW players as much as anyone else, but we have storylines and histories with the GSL players.
I'm very sure that GSL-players still will be able to compete at MLG
On May 11 2012 16:14 mireath wrote: Shouldn't be to pessimistic as we don't know what "exclusive" means yet, but if KeSPA becomes the powerhouse in SC2 as it is in BW then it could be bad news. If every decent Korean pro is signed with KeSPA, and the only foreign tourney they're allowed to enter is MLG, then that's pretty much GG for Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, HSC, Iron Squid and whatever. Great for MLG, terrible for the scene.
Last I checked, MLG doesn't hold tournaments every weekend of the year. There is still plenty of space for these tournaments to exist.
that's funny because the past two MLG arenas have been on the same weekend as other tournaments...hmm..yeah room for everyone I guess.
On May 11 2012 16:19 Rakett wrote: so now we know why tastosis isnt at the mlg arena. (because they're gom)
No they aren't going to the spring arena because the GSL finals are on the same weekend and they have to be in Korea to do that, but you might be right that they won't do MLG anymore once this kicks in.
And the events were all very successful. As long as MLG Championship events aren't conflicting with other major events, its not as big of a problem as people think it is. MLG Spring Arena 1 had the top talent, yet DH still had 65k viewers. These smaller 8 man and 32 man tournaments dont kill other events on the same weekend. Especially European events which wouldn't have a much player crossover.
While It's true it didn't hurt them that much It's not a good thing that these things happen, if a free to watch MLG event with BW pros gets scheduled on the same weekend as a big European tournament then what happens? I just don't like where this is headed. While It's not yet obvious that MLG is trying to kill off other tournaments I bet a lot of people feel that way.
then people watch both. the overlap of NA and EU events is very small.
I think it's pretty clear how Koreans players will benefit from this, but I'm curious to see how foreign players will benefit, if at all. In their partnership with GSL, few foreigners benefited, while quite a few Koreans received MLG priveleges. The arrangement was fine for the organizations of MLG and GOM, since MLG got high profile players and GOM got foreign exposure to promote their show, however on the player side, Korean's seemed to benefit far more than foreigners.
Since MLG doesn't seem to market very much to Korea and KeSpa is planning to market to the foreign audience, I wonder if either MLG will start to try and tap the Korean market or if the arrangement will be pretty much the same thing as it was with GOM.
I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
You think wrong!
OK. Then why MLG didn't sign a exclusive contract with GSL?
Maybe they tried? MLG also signed halo players to exclusivity, effectively killing off any competition since they weren't allowed to go to other tournaments.
Really halo players couldn't play in any other tourneys only mlg? lol that's kind of retarded xD
The only "tournaments" I can even think of MLG pros participating in would have been TLN (The LAN Network) and I don't even think Mr. Pennacchio gave out prize money for winners. It was more like a weekend of free food and practicing LAN before an upcoming MLG event for the pros as LAN was extremely different from internet play. Most pros even paid their own way to get out there.
They saw an easy payday early in their careers and sold their soul to the devil. Unfortunately for them, they grew with MLG and didn't know any better... being exclusive only made the game decline until they eventually became irrelevant in eSports. Now they are in an uproar, especially considering HALO is not in Anaheim next month.
On May 11 2012 16:14 mireath wrote: Shouldn't be to pessimistic as we don't know what "exclusive" means yet, but if KeSPA becomes the powerhouse in SC2 as it is in BW then it could be bad news. If every decent Korean pro is signed with KeSPA, and the only foreign tourney they're allowed to enter is MLG, then that's pretty much GG for Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, HSC, Iron Squid and whatever. Great for MLG, terrible for the scene.
Last I checked, MLG doesn't hold tournaments every weekend of the year. There is still plenty of space for these tournaments to exist.
that's funny because the past two MLG arenas have been on the same weekend as other tournaments...hmm..yeah room for everyone I guess.
On May 11 2012 16:19 Rakett wrote: so now we know why tastosis isnt at the mlg arena. (because they're gom)
No they aren't going to the spring arena because the GSL finals are on the same weekend and they have to be in Korea to do that, but you might be right that they won't do MLG anymore once this kicks in.
And the events were all very successful. As long as MLG Championship events aren't conflicting with other major events, its not as big of a problem as people think it is. MLG Spring Arena 1 had the top talent, yet DH still had 65k viewers. These smaller 8 man and 32 man tournaments dont kill other events on the same weekend. Especially European events which wouldn't have a much player crossover.
While It's true it didn't hurt them that much It's not a good thing that these things happen, if a free to watch MLG event with BW pros gets scheduled on the same weekend as a big European tournament then what happens? I just don't like where this is headed. While It's not yet obvious that MLG is trying to kill off other tournaments I bet a lot of people feel that way.
then people watch both. the overlap of NA and EU events is very small.
not everyone wants to stay up for 18+ hours straight to watch both events though, one of them is bound to run during a time where most people are sleeping in a particular timezone.
On May 11 2012 16:15 vik7 wrote: isn't it too soon for kespa bw players to play tourneys, i mean they said it themselves there not ready, unless they've been trolling us -____________-
They're not playing in the MLG championships, they're playing in an exhibition tourney
On May 11 2012 16:15 vik7 wrote: isn't it too soon for kespa bw players to play tourneys, i mean they said it themselves there not ready, unless they've been trolling us -____________-
They're not playing in the MLG championships, they're playing in an exhibition tourney
On May 11 2012 16:37 Deftscythe wrote: I expect the exhibition matches to look something like GSL open season 1.
People keep saying this rubbish.
Go and have a look at the firebathero replays that are in the blog section and stop talking out your arse. After only a month of playing, it doesn't look anything like GSL open season 1, he's using a fast expand Parting HT style Protoss build.
I'd say they are already above the majority of foreigner pro level based on what I saw in those replays and with more time to develop since, so while they may not be Code S level yet, there is no way their play is going to look like GSL open season 1.
Will it be free to watch? Good news either way. Hopefully some of them will at least try to qualify through open bracket. It'd be great to see them compete with current scene.
On May 11 2012 16:14 mireath wrote: Shouldn't be to pessimistic as we don't know what "exclusive" means yet, but if KeSPA becomes the powerhouse in SC2 as it is in BW then it could be bad news. If every decent Korean pro is signed with KeSPA, and the only foreign tourney they're allowed to enter is MLG, then that's pretty much GG for Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, HSC, Iron Squid and whatever. Great for MLG, terrible for the scene.
Last I checked, MLG doesn't hold tournaments every weekend of the year. There is still plenty of space for these tournaments to exist.
that's funny because the past two MLG arenas have been on the same weekend as other tournaments...hmm..yeah room for everyone I guess.
On May 11 2012 16:19 Rakett wrote: so now we know why tastosis isnt at the mlg arena. (because they're gom)
No they aren't going to the spring arena because the GSL finals are on the same weekend and they have to be in Korea to do that, but you might be right that they won't do MLG anymore once this kicks in.
And the events were all very successful. As long as MLG Championship events aren't conflicting with other major events, its not as big of a problem as people think it is. MLG Spring Arena 1 had the top talent, yet DH still had 65k viewers. These smaller 8 man and 32 man tournaments dont kill other events on the same weekend. Especially European events which wouldn't have a much player crossover.
While It's true it didn't hurt them that much It's not a good thing that these things happen, if a free to watch MLG event with BW pros gets scheduled on the same weekend as a big European tournament then what happens? I just don't like where this is headed. While It's not yet obvious that MLG is trying to kill off other tournaments I bet a lot of people feel that way.
then people watch both. the overlap of NA and EU events is very small.
not everyone wants to stay up for 18+ hours straight to watch both events though, one of them is bound to run during a time where most people are sleeping in a particular timezone.
how is that different then now? only the most hardcore fans stay up to watch tournaments not in their timezones. Me personally, I will catch the start of Euro events and then the end of the day when i wake up. Most people right now aren't staying up through the middle of the night to watch tournaments even when their is only one event during the weekend.
I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
You think wrong!
OK. Then why MLG didn't sign a exclusive contract with GSL?
Maybe they tried? MLG also signed halo players to exclusivity, effectively killing off any competition since they weren't allowed to go to other tournaments.
Really halo players couldn't play in any other tourneys only mlg? lol that's kind of retarded xD
The only "tournaments" I can even think of MLG pros participating in would have been TLN (The LAN Network) and I don't even think Mr. Pennacchio gave out prize money for winners. It was more like a weekend of free food and practicing LAN before an upcoming MLG event for the pros as LAN was extremely different from internet play. Most pros even paid their own way to get out there.
They saw an easy payday early in their careers and sold their soul to the devil. Unfortunately for them, they grew with MLG and didn't know any better... being exclusive only made the game decline until they eventually became irrelevant in eSports. Now they are in an uproar, especially considering HALO is not in Anaheim next month.
They didn't decline because of exclusivity, but that Bungie pretty much gave up on Halo reach and turned it into Cod.
On May 11 2012 16:15 vik7 wrote: isn't it too soon for kespa bw players to play tourneys, i mean they said it themselves there not ready, unless they've been trolling us -____________-
They're not playing in the MLG championships, they're playing in an exhibition tourney
On May 11 2012 16:14 mireath wrote: Shouldn't be to pessimistic as we don't know what "exclusive" means yet, but if KeSPA becomes the powerhouse in SC2 as it is in BW then it could be bad news. If every decent Korean pro is signed with KeSPA, and the only foreign tourney they're allowed to enter is MLG, then that's pretty much GG for Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, HSC, Iron Squid and whatever. Great for MLG, terrible for the scene.
Last I checked, MLG doesn't hold tournaments every weekend of the year. There is still plenty of space for these tournaments to exist.
that's funny because the past two MLG arenas have been on the same weekend as other tournaments...hmm..yeah room for everyone I guess.
On May 11 2012 16:19 Rakett wrote: so now we know why tastosis isnt at the mlg arena. (because they're gom)
No they aren't going to the spring arena because the GSL finals are on the same weekend and they have to be in Korea to do that, but you might be right that they won't do MLG anymore once this kicks in.
And the events were all very successful. As long as MLG Championship events aren't conflicting with other major events, its not as big of a problem as people think it is. MLG Spring Arena 1 had the top talent, yet DH still had 65k viewers. These smaller 8 man and 32 man tournaments dont kill other events on the same weekend. Especially European events which wouldn't have a much player crossover.
While It's true it didn't hurt them that much It's not a good thing that these things happen, if a free to watch MLG event with BW pros gets scheduled on the same weekend as a big European tournament then what happens? I just don't like where this is headed. While It's not yet obvious that MLG is trying to kill off other tournaments I bet a lot of people feel that way.
then people watch both. the overlap of NA and EU events is very small.
not everyone wants to stay up for 18+ hours straight to watch both events though, one of them is bound to run during a time where most people are sleeping in a particular timezone.
how is that different then now? only the most hardcore fans stay up to watch tournaments not in their timezones. Me personally, I will catch the start of Euro events and then the end of the day when i wake up. Most people right now aren't staying up through the middle of the night to watch tournaments even when their is only one event during the weekend.
people are far more likely to change their sleeping schedule for a weekend to follow a big tournament if their favorite players are there if there's nothing else going on during the weekend. maybe It's not a huge % but euro events still can get 40-50k in the early morning in NA if nothing else is going on that weekend.
It's going to hurt viewer numbers that's guaranteed, everyone talks about this every time a scheduling problem happens.
I hope you guys know that: a) proleague plays at saturday - sundays b) we still don't know what teams will play during that time - so if KT will have the proleagu match at 9th or 10th so no Flash c) most likely they will send some players from the teams that won't play on saturday and sunday... but then those players will be jet-lagged for their matches on monday - tuesday.
So realistically this exhibition match will actually do more harm than good. Or that the teams will just send the B-teamers.
On May 11 2012 16:14 mireath wrote: Shouldn't be to pessimistic as we don't know what "exclusive" means yet, but if KeSPA becomes the powerhouse in SC2 as it is in BW then it could be bad news. If every decent Korean pro is signed with KeSPA, and the only foreign tourney they're allowed to enter is MLG, then that's pretty much GG for Dreamhack, NASL, IPL, HSC, Iron Squid and whatever. Great for MLG, terrible for the scene.
Last I checked, MLG doesn't hold tournaments every weekend of the year. There is still plenty of space for these tournaments to exist.
that's funny because the past two MLG arenas have been on the same weekend as other tournaments...hmm..yeah room for everyone I guess.
On May 11 2012 16:19 Rakett wrote: so now we know why tastosis isnt at the mlg arena. (because they're gom)
No they aren't going to the spring arena because the GSL finals are on the same weekend and they have to be in Korea to do that, but you might be right that they won't do MLG anymore once this kicks in.
And the events were all very successful. As long as MLG Championship events aren't conflicting with other major events, its not as big of a problem as people think it is. MLG Spring Arena 1 had the top talent, yet DH still had 65k viewers. These smaller 8 man and 32 man tournaments dont kill other events on the same weekend. Especially European events which wouldn't have a much player crossover.
While It's true it didn't hurt them that much It's not a good thing that these things happen, if a free to watch MLG event with BW pros gets scheduled on the same weekend as a big European tournament then what happens? I just don't like where this is headed. While It's not yet obvious that MLG is trying to kill off other tournaments I bet a lot of people feel that way.
then people watch both. the overlap of NA and EU events is very small.
not everyone wants to stay up for 18+ hours straight to watch both events though, one of them is bound to run during a time where most people are sleeping in a particular timezone.
how is that different then now? only the most hardcore fans stay up to watch tournaments not in their timezones. Me personally, I will catch the start of Euro events and then the end of the day when i wake up. Most people right now aren't staying up through the middle of the night to watch tournaments even when their is only one event during the weekend.
people are far more likely to change their sleeping schedule for a weekend to follow a big tournament if their favorite players are there if there's nothing else going on during the weekend. maybe It's not a huge % but euro events still can get 40-50k in the early morning in NA if nothing else is going on that weekend.
It's going to hurt viewer numbers that's guaranteed, everyone talks about this every time a scheduling problem happens.
and DH got 65k on their final day during those early NA times, while MLG Spring Arena was going on. The % your talking about is small. Of course it hurts viewership, but not nearly as much as people like to say when Euro and NA events conflict. Two NA events conflicting is bad, like we saw with IEM NY and MLG Orlando. But when events are on different continents, meh. Especially the smaller PPV events that MLG has ran this year.
Well the more i think about this deal the more i hate it. Can Kespa player Stream? doubt it. they are not even allowed to play showmatch. Now they can go to MLG and Kespa stuff and that it. This is a huge kick in the nuts to all the other leagues. I dont really fault MLG to get in on this deal, prety sure kespa want to keep his force choke grip on their players and MLG was just being a good buisness.
Cant say i support this. man why couldnt kespa be a little more late to the party when team have real big money. Yo, Col.Bizu, EG flash, Liquid Jaedong. That would have been the greatest thing for sc2. this deal, its going to rise esport to a new level for sure, but its going to do so by steping on the corpses of people letf out.
Well we dont know the consequence until we actually see the BW pros play SC2 to be honest. I am not so sure they will come and dominate like so many predicts, I believe it when I see it, and from the way things are heading now we will know soon enough.
On May 11 2012 16:51 Frankon wrote: I hope you guys know that: a) proleague plays at saturday - sundays b) we still don't know what teams will play during that time - so if KT will have the proleagu match at 9th or 10th so no Flash c) most likely they will send some players from the teams that won't play on saturday and sunday... but then those players will be jet-lagged for their matches on monday - tuesday.
So realistically this exhibition match will actually do more harm than good. Or that the teams will just send the B-teamers.
I can guarantee you are wrong. Flash will absolutely be there barring sickness or injury.
I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
You think wrong!
OK. Then why MLG didn't sign a exclusive contract with GSL?
Maybe they tried? MLG also signed halo players to exclusivity, effectively killing off any competition since they weren't allowed to go to other tournaments.
Really halo players couldn't play in any other tourneys only mlg? lol that's kind of retarded xD
The only "tournaments" I can even think of MLG pros participating in would have been TLN (The LAN Network) and I don't even think Mr. Pennacchio gave out prize money for winners. It was more like a weekend of free food and practicing LAN before an upcoming MLG event for the pros as LAN was extremely different from internet play. Most pros even paid their own way to get out there.
They saw an easy payday early in their careers and sold their soul to the devil. Unfortunately for them, they grew with MLG and didn't know any better... being exclusive only made the game decline until they eventually became irrelevant in eSports. Now they are in an uproar, especially considering HALO is not in Anaheim next month.
They didn't decline because of exclusivity, but that Bungie pretty much gave up on Halo reach and turned it into Cod.
That as well... but it's kind of hard to get motivated (if you are a HALO pro) if you can only play 5 events a year and any time a potential new LAN appears, MLG stomps it out, buying up all their talent and moving on.
Sure the recent games sucked, but what MLG did didn't help their scene either...
On May 11 2012 16:51 Frankon wrote: I hope you guys know that: a) proleague plays at saturday - sundays b) we still don't know what teams will play during that time - so if KT will have the proleagu match at 9th or 10th so no Flash c) most likely they will send some players from the teams that won't play on saturday and sunday... but then those players will be jet-lagged for their matches on monday - tuesday.
So realistically this exhibition match will actually do more harm than good. Or that the teams will just send the B-teamers.
This partnership could also imply that both parties will try their best to avoid such scheduling conflicts, possibly scheduling Proleague around MLG to avoid such problems.
I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
You think wrong!
OK. Then why MLG didn't sign a exclusive contract with GSL?
Maybe they tried? MLG also signed halo players to exclusivity, effectively killing off any competition since they weren't allowed to go to other tournaments.
Really halo players couldn't play in any other tourneys only mlg? lol that's kind of retarded xD
The only "tournaments" I can even think of MLG pros participating in would have been TLN (The LAN Network) and I don't even think Mr. Pennacchio gave out prize money for winners. It was more like a weekend of free food and practicing LAN before an upcoming MLG event for the pros as LAN was extremely different from internet play. Most pros even paid their own way to get out there.
They saw an easy payday early in their careers and sold their soul to the devil. Unfortunately for them, they grew with MLG and didn't know any better... being exclusive only made the game decline until they eventually became irrelevant in eSports. Now they are in an uproar, especially considering HALO is not in Anaheim next month.
They didn't decline because of exclusivity, but that Bungie pretty much gave up on Halo reach and turned it into Cod.
That as well... but it's kind of hard to get motivated (if you are a HALO pro) if you can only play 5 events a year and any time a potential new LAN appears, MLG stomps it out, buying up all their talent and moving on.
Sure the recent games sucked, but what MLG did didn't help their scene either...
Except nobody even tried to host new events anywhere, even before.
I really really hope that exclusivity thing doesn't mean KeSPA players won't be allowed to participate in other non-conflicting foreign events like IPL etc.
For tennis fans, imagine if the US Open managed to secure a deal that prevented Nadal/Fed/Djoko/etc from competing in Wimbleton or even ATP events. Absolutely insane.
On May 11 2012 16:52 Dreadwolf wrote: Well the more i think about this deal the more i hate it. Can Kespa player Stream? doubt it. they are not even allowed to play showmatch. Now they can go to MLG and Kespa stuff and that it. This is a huge kick in the nuts to all the other leagues. I dont really fault MLG to get in on this deal, prety sure kespa want to keep his force choke grip on their players and MLG was just being a good buisness.
Cant say i support this. man why couldnt kespa be a little more late to the party when team have real big money. Yo, Col.Bizu, EG flash, Liquid Jaedong. That would have been the greatest thing for sc2. this deal, its going to rise esport to a new level for sure, but its going to do so by steping on the corpses of people letf out.
EG Flash would suck, Liquid Jaedong would suck, Col.Bisu would suck. They got far not only because of their talent, but because of their training conditions, these teams don't have players that practice as much.
On May 11 2012 16:52 Dreadwolf wrote: Well the more i think about this deal the more i hate it. Can Kespa player Stream? doubt it. they are not even allowed to play showmatch. Now they can go to MLG and Kespa stuff and that it. This is a huge kick in the nuts to all the other leagues. I dont really fault MLG to get in on this deal, prety sure kespa want to keep his force choke grip on their players and MLG was just being a good buisness.
Cant say i support this. man why couldnt kespa be a little more late to the party when team have real big money. Yo, Col.Bizu, EG flash, Liquid Jaedong. That would have been the greatest thing for sc2. this deal, its going to rise esport to a new level for sure, but its going to do so by steping on the corpses of people letf out.
EG Flash would suck, Liquid Jaedong would suck, Col.Bisu would suck. They got far not only because of their talent, but because of their training conditions, these teams don't have players that practice as much.
None of these teams can afford to pay any of the three's salaries either.
On May 11 2012 16:52 Dreadwolf wrote: Well the more i think about this deal the more i hate it. Can Kespa player Stream? doubt it. they are not even allowed to play showmatch. Now they can go to MLG and Kespa stuff and that it. This is a huge kick in the nuts to all the other leagues. I dont really fault MLG to get in on this deal, prety sure kespa want to keep his force choke grip on their players and MLG was just being a good buisness.
Cant say i support this. man why couldnt kespa be a little more late to the party when team have real big money. Yo, Col.Bizu, EG flash, Liquid Jaedong. That would have been the greatest thing for sc2. this deal, its going to rise esport to a new level for sure, but its going to do so by steping on the corpses of people letf out.
EG Flash would suck, Liquid Jaedong would suck, Col.Bisu would suck. They got far not only because of their talent, but because of their training conditions, these teams don't have players that practice as much.
KT and SKT1 send their entire teams on vacations to Hawaii, Thailand, etc. in the offseason. I'm pretty sure they're doing alright to sustain Flash and Bisu's contracts for the next 100 years if need be.
Tbh, if it means that they will only be attending MLG tournaments if they go abroad I'm okay with that. The focus on Proleague is so big and the seasons are pretty long so I wouldn'r wanna see my team send players to weekend-tournaments where they can't show their A-game because you can't prepare correctly and because of jet-lag and stuff.
On May 11 2012 16:57 geno wrote: I really really hope that exclusivity thing doesn't mean KeSPA players won't be allowed to participate in other non-conflicting foreign events like IPL etc.
For tennis fans, imagine if the US Open managed to secure a deal that prevented Nadal/Fed/Djoko/etc from competing in Wimbleton or even ATP events. Absolutely insane.
Correct. It's not right to have the Kespa players exclusively in MLG. The players should have freedom to participate in any big global event without restrictions.
On May 11 2012 16:57 geno wrote: I really really hope that exclusivity thing doesn't mean KeSPA players won't be allowed to participate in other non-conflicting foreign events like IPL etc.
For tennis fans, imagine if the US Open managed to secure a deal that prevented Nadal/Fed/Djoko/etc from competing in Wimbleton or even ATP events. Absolutely insane.
tbh I doubt they will attend those. one to two PL matches per week, plus OSL, possibly plus GSL in the future + typical rigid proteam training. So, foreign tourneys might just be a vacation thingy or most likely b-teamers will get some exposure
On May 11 2012 16:51 Frankon wrote: I hope you guys know that: a) proleague plays at saturday - sundays b) we still don't know what teams will play during that time - so if KT will have the proleagu match at 9th or 10th so no Flash c) most likely they will send some players from the teams that won't play on saturday and sunday... but then those players will be jet-lagged for their matches on monday - tuesday.
So realistically this exhibition match will actually do more harm than good. Or that the teams will just send the B-teamers.
I can guarantee you are wrong. Flash will absolutely be there barring sickness or injury.
And ill die laughing if the KT will lose their PL match and not make it to the play-offs(yeah i know 0.001% chances of happening) cause their players will be not present or jetlagged.
I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
You think wrong!
OK. Then why MLG didn't sign an exclusive contract with GSL? You think "contract" means one party decides everything?
They got what they wanted from GSL. MLG only became that big because of the koreans. Before them who cares about Incontrol vs Painuser for #Top5 lol! MLG didn't renewed the partnership with GSL, because they don't need it. They invite the koreans to their PPV-rip-offs and thats enough. Because so many koreans are on foreigner teams now, they will have enough koreans at their events.
Now its the same. With all the hype about BW-Pros switching to SC2, MLG wants a piece of the cake. I hope all the big names of BW fail hard in SC2 and get raped by CodeB players - then MLG paid alot of money for nothing! haha
On May 11 2012 16:51 Frankon wrote: I hope you guys know that: a) proleague plays at saturday - sundays b) we still don't know what teams will play during that time - so if KT will have the proleagu match at 9th or 10th so no Flash c) most likely they will send some players from the teams that won't play on saturday and sunday... but then those players will be jet-lagged for their matches on monday - tuesday.
So realistically this exhibition match will actually do more harm than good. Or that the teams will just send the B-teamers.
Realistically speaking you are going to be wrong. They don't make this kind of deal to send b-teamers. You make it sound looks a schedule is impossible to alter.
On May 11 2012 16:51 Frankon wrote: I hope you guys know that: a) proleague plays at saturday - sundays b) we still don't know what teams will play during that time - so if KT will have the proleagu match at 9th or 10th so no Flash c) most likely they will send some players from the teams that won't play on saturday and sunday... but then those players will be jet-lagged for their matches on monday - tuesday.
So realistically this exhibition match will actually do more harm than good. Or that the teams will just send the B-teamers.
I can guarantee you are wrong. Flash will absolutely be there barring sickness or injury.
And ill die laughing if the KT will lose their PL match and not make it to the play-offs(yeah i know 0.001% chances of happening) cause their players will be not present or jetlagged.
or, in this deal that MLG and Kespa made, proleague won't have any games on that weekend.
I just hope these type of moves don't fracture and segregate the community. It would be fantastic to allow anyone into any league they want. Not a huge fan of exclusivity.
I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
You think wrong!
OK. Then why MLG didn't sign an exclusive contract with GSL? You think "contract" means one party decides everything?
They got what they wanted from GSL. MLG only became that big because of the koreans. Before them who cares about Incontrol vs Painuser for #Top5 lol! MLG didn't renewed the partnership with GSL, because they don't need it. They invite the koreans to their PPV-rip-offs and thats enough. Because so many koreans are on foreigner teams now, they will have enough koreans at their events.
Now its the same. With all the hype about BW-Pros switching to SC2, MLG wants a piece of the cake. I hope all the big names of BW fail hard in SC2 and get raped by CodeB players - then MLG paid alot of money for nothing! haha
This would never happen and that would be horrible to wish upon the BW guys.... But god that would be so sweet.
Finally, the event that everyone has been anticipating and questioning has been unveiled. KeSPA has turned over and joined the rest of the esports league in SC2, and not in a way that many of us anticipated. Some of our "role models"(shout casters and SC veterans, one in particular I'm thinking of) thought that when KeSPA made the switch to SC2 that PRO-SC2 scene may become more divided, where players in KeSPA would not be allowed to leave Korea to compete, rather than joining us in the leagues and ladders that we have been building, as a community, for over a year and a half. However this is most certainly not the case.
I have a few questions, myself, about the future of foreign competitors. One of my lines of questions is "What will happen to the pro scene the way we see it now? Will the KeSPA players rise above everyone else the way we've anticipated? Will our hero players be trampled? How will this affect the mindsets of out stars now?"
This really could have two effects. First, this could inspire our players, coaches and teams to work harder and improve their analyzing techniques and practice regiment, or two, this anticipated dominant skill-set will steam roll our brackets as well as our mindsets. This second effect could be devastating to the foreign esports scene. I really hope it doesn't go down that road.
SC2 fans have generally been taking Korea vs. Foreigner sides. I've been reading through this TL thread and seeing that many people are now taking KeSPA vs. the current SC2 competitors. What an interesting switch. I personally have always been a foreigner fan. Whenever the match was a foreigner versus a Korean, I took the foreigners side. There were very few exceptions to my "picking sides" strategy.
A lot of the TL posts here talk about the word “exclusive”. This is an exclusive partnership. I can honestly say I’m not entirely sure what that means. How will this affect other competition leagues? Will KeSPA competitors be allowed to fight in tournaments like IPL, DreamHack, Iron Squid, or even The Shoutcraft invitational (one of my personal favorites)?
Lastly on to one of my favorite topics in the esports scene, PROFESSIONALISM. Lately we’ve seen players let go from teams left and right. We’ve seen events like the “ORB event”. Players, shout-casters and such have been let go and shuffled around all over the esports scene. How will the KeSPA scene affect us with how we act? This should inspire us to perform to the highest Grandmaster level in all of us in everything we do, how we play, how we speak, how we look. When someone you admire and hold in high respect walks into the room, do you not check yourself? Do you not make sure that you can look as best as possible before they see you? When you have to opportunity to speak to them, do you not hold your tongue from obscenities, vulgarity, and criticism sometimes, even if it’s constructive? Why would we not act the same way now?
I don’t mean to have us act with no enthusiasm, but I do think that we should check any immaturities at the door before we leave areas of privacy. When we “leave areas of privacy”, I mean that when we leave our houses, or even go online (BNet, Skype or streaming). Wherever people can see or hear us, we should be acting as adults. I’m hitting on this hard because now the top players are joining the foreign Star Craft 2 community. Quickly, much more attention will be brought to the Esports scene. This is a big business deal, and I see many companies wanting to invest more into Star Craft 2 teams, especially American based companies.
I really hope that more details arise about this collaboration between KeSPA and MLG at the MLG Spring Championship draws nearer.
On May 11 2012 16:51 Frankon wrote: I hope you guys know that: a) proleague plays at saturday - sundays b) we still don't know what teams will play during that time - so if KT will have the proleagu match at 9th or 10th so no Flash c) most likely they will send some players from the teams that won't play on saturday and sunday... but then those players will be jet-lagged for their matches on monday - tuesday.
So realistically this exhibition match will actually do more harm than good. Or that the teams will just send the B-teamers.
I can guarantee you are wrong. Flash will absolutely be there barring sickness or injury.
And ill die laughing if the KT will lose their PL match and not make it to the play-offs(yeah i know 0.001% chances of happening) cause their players will be not present or jetlagged.
or, in this deal that MLG and Kespa made, proleague won't have any games on that weekend.
if PL does not have weekend games I will hate MLG for life.
On May 11 2012 16:51 Frankon wrote: I hope you guys know that: a) proleague plays at saturday - sundays b) we still don't know what teams will play during that time - so if KT will have the proleagu match at 9th or 10th so no Flash c) most likely they will send some players from the teams that won't play on saturday and sunday... but then those players will be jet-lagged for their matches on monday - tuesday.
So realistically this exhibition match will actually do more harm than good. Or that the teams will just send the B-teamers.
I can guarantee you are wrong. Flash will absolutely be there barring sickness or injury.
And ill die laughing if the KT will lose their PL match and not make it to the play-offs(yeah i know 0.001% chances of happening) cause their players will be not present or jetlagged.
or, in this deal that MLG and Kespa made, proleague won't have any games on that weekend.
if PL does not have weekend games I will hate MLG for life.
they will still be weekend games, there will probably just be a bye week.
On May 11 2012 16:51 Frankon wrote: I hope you guys know that: a) proleague plays at saturday - sundays b) we still don't know what teams will play during that time - so if KT will have the proleagu match at 9th or 10th so no Flash c) most likely they will send some players from the teams that won't play on saturday and sunday... but then those players will be jet-lagged for their matches on monday - tuesday.
So realistically this exhibition match will actually do more harm than good. Or that the teams will just send the B-teamers.
I can guarantee you are wrong. Flash will absolutely be there barring sickness or injury.
And ill die laughing if the KT will lose their PL match and not make it to the play-offs(yeah i know 0.001% chances of happening) cause their players will be not present or jetlagged.
or, in this deal that MLG and Kespa made, proleague won't have any games on that weekend.
Ok. It looks like they already took it into account. I forgot that in the first day all teams play. Some BW guro should come up with new PL timetable.
I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
You think wrong!
OK. Then why MLG didn't sign an exclusive contract with GSL? You think "contract" means one party decides everything?
They got what they wanted from GSL. MLG only became that big because of the koreans. Before them who cares about Incontrol vs Painuser for #Top5 lol! MLG didn't renewed the partnership with GSL, because they don't need it. They invite the koreans to their PPV-rip-offs and thats enough. Because so many koreans are on foreigner teams now, they will have enough koreans at their events.
Now its the same. With all the hype about BW-Pros switching to SC2, MLG wants a piece of the cake. I hope all the big names of BW fail hard in SC2 and get raped by CodeB players - then MLG paid alot of money for nothing! haha
I dont get why you would hope for that to happen? don't you wanna further e-sports instead of hoping things like this fail regardless of the business side of things?
@ REFLEX_500 interesting pointes I am not sure but your idea on the professionalism aspect seems very good. In the regard of exclusive rights... I think it is obvious and some people might say it kasparesk behaviour just to skip a lot of other tournaments and aproach only MLG. But I hope it is not that strict (I dont think so) and we get to see flash, bisu and jaedong compete at dreamhack that i have a chance to travel to the event. The whole thing might simple be a line that is drawn between the koreans from broodwar and the top korean of SCII. On the other hand: Is nobody asking himself about the other aspects? In means of exclusivity: Wasn't there a Progaming license you had to make to compete? If the whole kespar arsenal of players is switched over and can establish - won't the other (SCII players) come over? I dont know but it can be a possibility that the whole korean scene merges back together if SC II is established at the new old teams... In this case we might only have koreans at MLG
BTW: PL timetable
3 rounds, as before: May 20-June 19, June 23-July 22, July 23-August 26. So it is in the first round of PL.
Honestly, I don't think MLG would want to "Force" the bw pro's from only playing in their tournaments. Considering the way the community can react to what they perceive at wrong, it seems like it would be a poor business choice on their part.
one thing i don't understand on kespa part is that why wouldn't they let their players play in other tournment? and do they still need progaming license to play sc2?
I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
You think wrong!
OK. Then why MLG didn't sign an exclusive contract with GSL? You think "contract" means one party decides everything?
They got what they wanted from GSL. MLG only became that big because of the koreans. Before them who cares about Incontrol vs Painuser for #Top5 lol! MLG didn't renewed the partnership with GSL, because they don't need it. They invite the koreans to their PPV-rip-offs and thats enough. Because so many koreans are on foreigner teams now, they will have enough koreans at their events.
Now its the same. With all the hype about BW-Pros switching to SC2, MLG wants a piece of the cake. I hope all the big names of BW fail hard in SC2 and get raped by CodeB players - then MLG paid alot of money for nothing! haha
So you want to see bad games and want to see mlg fail to put on the best show possible because they try to run a bisuness? what a real starcraft fan...
@ Destroyr Thanks, do my best to convey my ideas clearly on here.
"I dont know but it can be a possibility that the whole korean scene merges back together if SC II is established at the new old teams... In this case we might only have koreans at MLG."
Do you meen that the old Korean teams will be the only teams in MLG now? I would think that this will hurt the scene. If it's only Koreans, MLG could move over to Korea. No reason to have it in North America if there are no Americans in it, right?
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
However, this partnership opens a vast amount of opportunities for the players, if these organizations plan on funding the players travel and hotel expenses.
On May 11 2012 17:25 Destroyr wrote: BTW: PL timetable
3 rounds, as before: May 20-June 19, June 23-July 22, July 23-August 26. So it is in the first round of PL.
Its missing the teams playing on which days. PL play days for round 1 are: 20 - 22, 26 - 29 May 2-5, 9-12, 16-19 June. We still don't know about what team plays when and what are they gonna do about the fourth week of round1.
The Problem is, that the korean Starcraft scene is still more or less cut in half. There is Kespa on the one side and the rest on the other. Still a lot of work needs to be done, to bringt both together.
I think this exclusive thing is not because of MLG but Kespa.
You think wrong!
OK. Then why MLG didn't sign an exclusive contract with GSL? You think "contract" means one party decides everything?
They got what they wanted from GSL. MLG only became that big because of the koreans. Before them who cares about Incontrol vs Painuser for #Top5 lol! MLG didn't renewed the partnership with GSL, because they don't need it. They invite the koreans to their PPV-rip-offs and thats enough. Because so many koreans are on foreigner teams now, they will have enough koreans at their events.
Now its the same. With all the hype about BW-Pros switching to SC2, MLG wants a piece of the cake. I hope all the big names of BW fail hard in SC2 and get raped by CodeB players - then MLG paid alot of money for nothing! haha
I dont get why you would hope for that to happen? don't you wanna further e-sports instead of hoping things like this fail regardless of the business side of things?
It depends on your view of eSports. Do you want eSports to continue to grow in the way that it is? With all its charm with brand new tournaments popping up, shows, commentators, pros, sponsors. Or do you want it to become an organization, like the NFL? Rules, regulations, set season, set staff, exclusive players, no cross league play, etc... Because that is clearly MLGs ultimate goal.
Wait. How about the other way around? It sounds like this "partnership" involves just Koreans coming to MLG events. Will we be sending Western players to compete in Kespa events in Korea?
It basically seems to mean there will be Kespa/OGN/GOM in Korea (assuming ofc they're not totally side tracking GOM on this and the MLG deal only applies for non-korean events) and then MLG outside of Korea. Exclusive means exclusive, so Flash et al. will not set foot in any other tournaments... "Growing e-sports", right....
On May 11 2012 16:52 Dreadwolf wrote: Well the more i think about this deal the more i hate it. Can Kespa player Stream? doubt it. they are not even allowed to play showmatch. Now they can go to MLG and Kespa stuff and that it. This is a huge kick in the nuts to all the other leagues. I dont really fault MLG to get in on this deal, prety sure kespa want to keep his force choke grip on their players and MLG was just being a good buisness.
Cant say i support this. man why couldnt kespa be a little more late to the party when team have real big money. Yo, Col.Bizu, EG flash, Liquid Jaedong. That would have been the greatest thing for sc2. this deal, its going to rise esport to a new level for sure, but its going to do so by steping on the corpses of people letf out.
EG Flash would suck, Liquid Jaedong would suck, Col.Bisu would suck. They got far not only because of their talent, but because of their training conditions, these teams don't have players that practice as much.
KT and SKT1 send their entire teams on vacations to Hawaii, Thailand, etc. in the offseason. I'm pretty sure they're doing alright to sustain Flash and Bisu's contracts for the next 100 years if need be.
I'm very sure that GSL-players still will be able to compete at MLG
While this may be true, it would be next to impossible for Tastosis to cast for their direct competitors. That's the main reason I wouldn't watch.
Competitors? What? It's been said Kespa players may well actually be competing in GSL and GSL players will be able to compete possibly in the proleague and the OGN league. There is no problem. Also Tastosis can cast MLG no problem. Why would this new influx affect casters.
On May 11 2012 17:42 SpectreSOF wrote: Wait. How about the other way around? It sounds like this "partnership" involves just Koreans coming to MLG events. Will we be sending Western players to compete in Kespa events in Korea?
if the foreigners can compete with the koreans that is
im glad for esports if this all works out but, if leagues like the GSL, NASL, etc start to go under because of stuff like this im going to be so bummed
On May 11 2012 18:07 StriderDoom wrote: im glad for esports if this all works out but, if leagues like the GSL, NASL, etc start to go under because of stuff like this im going to be so bummed
GSL is too big to fall at this point, It's IPL/NASL/DH/IEM that should be worried.
The Korean E-Sports Association, Major League Gaming, and the International Esports Group announced on May 11th a MOU []Memorandum of Understanding partnership between the three parties.
Founded in 2002, the New York based MLG runs some of the most competitive eSports tournaments in the world, and provides live streaming services to over approximately 170 countries around the world.
This MOU with MLG will be the first step for Korean pro-gamers to compete more actively on the international stage, and some of the best Korean pro-gamers will participate at MLG Spring Championship in Anaheim between June 8th and June 10th and play in Starcraft II matches.
KeSPA's Oh Gyung Shik said “Through this MOU with MLG which will help globalize eSports, we will actively work together in the future and do our best to make Korean esports the next wave of influential Korean culture in the world.”
MLG's Sundance said “I am thrilled to cooperate with the most authoritative eSports league in the world, and I believe our partnership will help the continued growth and progress of eSports culture.”
The three companies will work towards making a detailed plan for globalized eSports leagues, and provide services so that more regions will be able to enjoy esports though a variety of mediums.
Please excuse me for my unawareness, as I really don't have the time to read a few comments : does that mean that player appareances like Flash or JaeDong for sc2 are possible, if those players are selected ? Thanks for the info!
On May 11 2012 18:13 niilzon wrote: Please excuse me for my unawareness, as I really don't have the time to read a few comments : does that mean that player appareances like Flash or JaeDong for sc2 are possible, if those players are selected ? Thanks for the info!
Means that , and also a lot of other things. based on waxangel translation we may have something like the FIFA a world wife governing body for e-sports.
On May 11 2012 18:13 niilzon wrote: Please excuse me for my unawareness, as I really don't have the time to read a few comments : does that mean that player appareances like Flash or JaeDong for sc2 are possible, if those players are selected ? Thanks for the info!
On May 11 2012 18:07 StriderDoom wrote: im glad for esports if this all works out but, if leagues like the GSL, NASL, etc start to go under because of stuff like this im going to be so bummed
GSL is too big to fall at this point, It's IPL/NASL/DH/IEM that should be worried.
Have to disagree, this will really puts more pressure on GOM than the others. SC2 doesn't seem massive in Korea. The BW legends making the transition might boost it, and well Kespa has them.
The others you stated, have easy access to foreigners. The Koreans that have attended those will likely continue doing so. That is unless MLG really wants to choke out competition and plan things during IPL etc.
On May 11 2012 18:07 StriderDoom wrote: im glad for esports if this all works out but, if leagues like the GSL, NASL, etc start to go under because of stuff like this im going to be so bummed
GSL is too big to fall at this point, It's IPL/NASL/DH/IEM that should be worried.
Have to disagree, this will really puts more pressure on GOM than the others. SC2 doesn't seem massive in Korea. The BW legends making the transition might boost it, and well Kespa has them.
The others you stated, have easy access to foreigners. The Koreans that have attended those will likely continue doing so. That is unless MLG really wants to choke out competition and plan things during IPL etc.
GOM's success does not depend on Korea though. They have ( apparently ) tens of thousands of GSL subscribers that pay for their product and are loyal to them because they were the first Korean sc2 league, they are also in the black this year according to FXOboss' blog.
You really overestimate how many people would want to watch untested BW pros play sc2 after the novelty has worn off. Compared to current sc2 legends like mvp,nestea,mc,marineking,drg they aren't popular other than Flash because he's all over Reddit all day, Bisu kind of as well but mostly Flash.
If the BW legends' first sc2 games disappoint and if they continue to disappoint compared to the quality of games in the GSL ( Which they most likely will because they are new to the game and have to practice sc1 at the same time ) the hype will die fast.
GOM also has all the popular casters while the Kespa league will likely have to use Moletrap and Torch, and while I enjoy Korean casters I understand that not everyone does.
On May 11 2012 18:22 Koshi wrote: I wonder if the scII games from the BW pros will be different styles, because I wont be too interested to see worse executions of current builds.
I hope so, too. But it seems that the current BW are not training with SC2 teams because of that reason (BO leakage). One can only hope that it means some new Builds
On May 11 2012 18:25 Sea_Food wrote: Im pretty sure that in 2010 there was a bw turney in california with flash, jaedong ad a ton of forgeiners. Also WCG was in USA.
This MOU with MLG will be the first step for Korean pro-gamers to compete more actively on the international stage, and some of the best Korean pro-gamers will participate at MLG Spring Championship in Anaheim between June 6th and June 8th and play in Starcraft II matches.
Isn't MLG starting like on June 9 (Based on MLG announcement)?
On May 11 2012 18:07 StriderDoom wrote: im glad for esports if this all works out but, if leagues like the GSL, NASL, etc start to go under because of stuff like this im going to be so bummed
GSL is too big to fall at this point, It's IPL/NASL/DH/IEM that should be worried.
Have to disagree, this will really puts more pressure on GOM than the others. SC2 doesn't seem massive in Korea. The BW legends making the transition might boost it, and well Kespa has them.
The others you stated, have easy access to foreigners. The Koreans that have attended those will likely continue doing so. That is unless MLG really wants to choke out competition and plan things during IPL etc.
GOM's success does not depend on Korea though. They have ( apparently ) tens of thousands of GSL subscribers that pay for their product and are loyal to them because they were the first Korean sc2 league, they are also in the black this year according to FXOboss' blog.
You really overestimate how many people would want to watch untested BW pros play sc2 after the novelty has worn off. Compared to current sc2 legends like mvp,nestea,mc,marineking,drg they aren't popular other than Flash because he's all over Reddit all day, Bisu kind of as well but mostly Flash.
If the BW legends' first sc2 games disappoint and if they continue to disappoint compared to the quality of games in the GSL ( Which they most likely will because they are new to the game and have to practice sc1 at the same time ) the hype will die fast.
How can you use the word "sc2 legends" when the game isn't even 2 years old yet?
This MOU with MLG will be the first step for Korean pro-gamers to compete more actively on the international stage, and some of the best Korean pro-gamers will participate at MLG Spring Championship in Anaheim between June 6th and June 8th and play in Starcraft II matches.
Isn't MLG starting like on June 9 (Based on MLG announcement)?
On May 11 2012 18:07 StriderDoom wrote: im glad for esports if this all works out but, if leagues like the GSL, NASL, etc start to go under because of stuff like this im going to be so bummed
GSL is too big to fall at this point, It's IPL/NASL/DH/IEM that should be worried.
Have to disagree, this will really puts more pressure on GOM than the others. SC2 doesn't seem massive in Korea. The BW legends making the transition might boost it, and well Kespa has them.
The others you stated, have easy access to foreigners. The Koreans that have attended those will likely continue doing so. That is unless MLG really wants to choke out competition and plan things during IPL etc.
GOM's success does not depend on Korea though. They have ( apparently ) tens of thousands of GSL subscribers that pay for their product and are loyal to them because they were the first Korean sc2 league, they are also in the black this year according to FXOboss' blog.
You really overestimate how many people would want to watch untested BW pros play sc2 after the novelty has worn off. Compared to current sc2 legends like mvp,nestea,mc,marineking,drg they aren't popular other than Flash because he's all over Reddit all day, Bisu kind of as well but mostly Flash.
If the BW legends' first sc2 games disappoint and if they continue to disappoint compared to the quality of games in the GSL ( Which they most likely will because they are new to the game and have to practice sc1 at the same time ) the hype will die fast.
How can you use the word "sc2 legends" when the game isn't even 2 years old yet?
...Because they are the most successful and popular players in sc2, no need to get upset over a choice of words.
If the only place to see BW Pro's stateside is MLG due to exclusivity, I'll be glad D3 will be taking a good chunk of my time for at least a couple of years. Not something I'm going to support and not something I want to be around for. Yes it's a business and I as a consumer/fan can disagree with it and not support it. I'd rather the SC2 scene implode than fracture it like this. This was always going to be the natural progression though since MLG is doing the PPV thing. You need to have an "exclusive" product for PPV to really have a draw. Expect BW Pro tournies at Arena.
Why compete head to head with other events for the players attention/participation when you can just sign contracts and deny the other events to players. Then when the other events don't have enough "high profile" players they get less viewership and attendance and then subsequently implode. Leaving MLG to have a monopoly. Also be afraid because the Kespa teams WILL buy the current successful SC2 pro's, especially if it takes the BW Pro's awhile to get accustomed to "high-level"(I hate that term) SC2. Kespa teams WANT to have the best playing for them and they will get the best. It'd be interesting to know exactly how much input the BW Pro's in this "exclusivity" deal.
On May 11 2012 18:25 Sea_Food wrote: Im pretty sure that in 2010 there was a bw turney in california with flash, jaedong ad a ton of forgeiners. Also WCG was in USA.
Why mustMLG lie to us?
Its called hype my friend...and MLG wants to sell you a $14.99 pass to experience it. I was not aware of the Cali tournament you mention but I don't doubt it...
Can't help but feel Gomtv got royally fucked in the ass for this one. A bigger league shows up and just like that MLG has dropped the old for the new. Even though gomtv played a big part in legitimizing the early MLGs (without the Code S seed they would only be $5000 tourneys). But meh, totally fair game in the business world.
I sure hope Gomtv manages to survive. I feel like they are the company that made the biggest sacrifices for e-sports. Sometimes I really wonder how they stay afloat (let alone make profit) when they give out ungodly prizes, fly and house foreigners from across the world, hire kpop girls to interact with players, not to mention they broadcast daily so they have to basically pay their whole production crew full time (compared to all other event-based tournaments).
As long as mlg doesnt have to sell out its soul to kespa players and shun the current crop of GSL players, this is fantastic news. Might finally get to see if flash is any good at sc2 :D
On May 11 2012 18:39 W2 wrote: Can't help but feel Gomtv got royally fucked in the ass for this one. A bigger league shows up and just like that MLG has dropped the old for the new. Even though gomtv played a big part in legitimizing the early MLGs (without the Code S seed they would only be $5000 tourneys). But meh, totally fair game in the business world.
I sure hope Gomtv manages to survive. I feel like they are the company that made the biggest sacrifices for e-sports. Sometimes I really wonder how they stay afloat (let alone make profit) when they give out ungodly prizes, fly and house foreigners from across the world, hire kpop girls to interact with players, not to mention they broadcast daily so they have to basically pay their whole production crew full time (compared to all other event-based tournaments).
Afaik, sponsor pays for the prize money. So if you have $140k lying around, you could have"productnamehere GSL Season #"
This is awful for the scene, they just put up a kespa-mlg restriction to all the kespa soon-to-be SC2 players and you are happy about it?
All the players signed with kespa will only be able to play in either MLG or kespa tournaments.
Which means no GSL, GSTL, IPL, DH, NASL, WCG and tons more.
It's just the same old kespa, but this time they recognized the "foreign power" in the SC2 scene, so rather than just starting a monopoly by themselves, which would not have been possible since the foreign scene has way too much money into SC2, they called in a foreign organization to start an oligopoly together and do just what they did in BW, cut off ALL contacts and interaction with tons of other SC2 tournaments.
On May 11 2012 18:57 zezamer wrote: How can you know ?
Mhm I don't know, this topic, kespa's past and Sundance's
No comment on the exclusivity other than to say that it is exclusive.
tweet?
They're just getting ready to milk the users with tons of PPV events strictly Kespa-MLG exclusive, riding off the hype of the "OMG BW PLAYERS INCOMING" circlejerk.
They even announced a BW pros-only showtournament at Anaheim.
Why do you think they'd do that?
Just imagine watching Flash and Firebathero getting 2-0'd by State and Illusion in the normal Anaheim tournament.
On May 11 2012 18:57 Zealot Orgy wrote: It's just the same old kespa, but this time they recognized the "foreign power" in the SC2 scene, so rather than just starting a monopoly by themselves, which would not have been possible since the foreign scene has way too much money into SC2, they called in a foreign organization to start an oligopoly together and do just what they did in BW, cut off ALL contacts and interaction with tons of other SC2 tournaments.
It does slightly smell like that, but don't you think that if they would actually do that, they'd shoot themselves in the foot? BW pros have a novelty value, but in the long run they will have to prove themselves against existing SC2 champions. If they can't produce results fast (which frankly I don't think they will, they need time to adapt), their novelty value will dissapear over time.
Also, the foreign scene is quite big. People support players like Stephano, Huk, Mana, Thorzain, Nerchio, Idra and WhiteRa, just to name a few. As long as there's money for other tournaments, those players will keep participating and people will be watching. If KeSPA wants to reach a foreign audience, they will eventually need to look beyond MLG.
Why are people assuming the least natural interpretation of exclusive? Exclusive agreement between two companies would most naturally and obviously mean that the agreement is exclusive, i.e. that neither company is allowed to enter into a similar agreement with any other company. It would be very weird to call this an exclusive agreement if they meant that the deal would involve exclusive participation in one of the organization's leagues for players that are represented by the other organization. Exclusive agreement describes the nature of the agreement itself, not the nature of some of the content within the agreement.
With Flash officially going (https://twitter.com/#!/MLGSundance/status/200845945196392448), and MLG partnering with KeSPA, this is gonna be awesome. KeSPA doesn't have the power it had in BW to be a monopolizing tyrant, and MLG has just consistently been on top of its game with making the right decisions.
On May 11 2012 19:09 Blennd wrote: Why are people assuming the least natural interpretation of exclusive? Exclusive agreement between two companies would most naturally and obviously mean that the agreement is exclusive, i.e. that neither company is allowed to enter into a similar agreement with any other company. It would be very weird to call this an exclusive agreement if they meant that the deal would involve exclusive participation in one of the organization's leagues for players that are represented by the other organization. Exclusive agreement describes the nature of the agreement itself, not the nature of some of the content within the agreement.
Agreed. Seems like people are jumping the gun a bit. I guess we will see with time. Maybe it's exclusive for a bit while they get their skill up and are more competative so as to not be thrown in to the wolves den. Anyway exciting news either way.
On May 11 2012 18:57 Zealot Orgy wrote: Why is everyone so blind?
This is awful for the scene, they just put up a kespa-mlg restriction to all the kespa soon-to-be SC2 players and you are happy about it?
All the players signed with kespa will only be able to play in either MLG or kespa tournaments.
Which means no GSL, GSTL, IPL, DH, NASL, WCG and tons more.
It's just the same old kespa, but this time they recognized the "foreign power" in the SC2 scene, so rather than just starting a monopoly by themselves, which would not have been possible since the foreign scene has way too much money into SC2, they called in a foreign organization to start an oligopoly together and do just what they did in BW, cut off ALL contacts and interaction with tons of other SC2 tournaments.
Didn't KeSPA clearly state their intentions to make the GSL like the MSL? Isn't the GSTL rumored to be combined with the Proleague? Didn't KeSPA always endorse entry into WCG and Blizzcon?
What is it you want, exactly? BW players traveling constantly, with no time to develop their SC2 skills and korean fanbase?
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
BlizzCon?
It kind of sukcs. I'd much rather prefere partnership with DreamHack :/
On May 11 2012 18:57 Zealot Orgy wrote: Why is everyone so blind?
This is awful for the scene, they just put up a kespa-mlg restriction to all the kespa soon-to-be SC2 players and you are happy about it?
All the players signed with kespa will only be able to play in either MLG or kespa tournaments.
Which means no GSL, GSTL, IPL, DH, NASL, WCG and tons more.
It's just the same old kespa, but this time they recognized the "foreign power" in the SC2 scene, so rather than just starting a monopoly by themselves, which would not have been possible since the foreign scene has way too much money into SC2, they called in a foreign organization to start an oligopoly together and do just what they did in BW, cut off ALL contacts and interaction with tons of other SC2 tournaments.
My thoughts exactly, the more I think about it the more this deal concerns me. IMO this goes against the spirit of the 'Blizzard-KeSPA-OnGameNet-Gretech to Join Forces for eSports Vision' announcement made just last week.
Cautiously intrigued. Will have to see where they go with this. "Exclusive" is a word that pops out, so it would have been nice for them to have cleared that up.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
BlizzCon?
It kind of sukcs. I'd much rather prefere partnership with DreamHack :/
all Dreamhack has to do is have a partnership with MLG
On May 11 2012 18:39 W2 wrote: Can't help but feel Gomtv got royally fucked in the ass for this one. A bigger league shows up and just like that MLG has dropped the old for the new. Even though gomtv played a big part in legitimizing the early MLGs (without the Code S seed they would only be $5000 tourneys). But meh, totally fair game in the business world.
I sure hope Gomtv manages to survive. I feel like they are the company that made the biggest sacrifices for e-sports. Sometimes I really wonder how they stay afloat (let alone make profit) when they give out ungodly prizes, fly and house foreigners from across the world, hire kpop girls to interact with players, not to mention they broadcast daily so they have to basically pay their whole production crew full time (compared to all other event-based tournaments).
Where are all these weird comments coming from?
Where does it say anywhere GSL player's won't be at MLG anymore? It doesn't, and they will be. Nothing has changed for GOM. They are the most high level SC2 league in the world and it will stay that way for a year or more at least. Gom has nothing to worry about at all. A league with all the best players, and best English casters for that matter doesn't need to worry.
Unless they are in some bad financial trouble i don't understand why everyone is suddenly worried for GOM.
On May 11 2012 19:09 Blennd wrote: Why are people assuming the least natural interpretation of exclusive? Exclusive agreement between two companies would most naturally and obviously mean that the agreement is exclusive, i.e. that neither company is allowed to enter into a similar agreement with any other company. It would be very weird to call this an exclusive agreement if they meant that the deal would involve exclusive participation in one of the organization's leagues for players that are represented by the other organization. Exclusive agreement describes the nature of the agreement itself, not the nature of some of the content within the agreement.
The only thing KeSPA has is ownership of the players and Proleague. MLG obviously has no players/teams under it's belt to take part in Proleague so it has to do with KeSPA players. Using your description, neither company (KeSPA) is allowed to enter into a similar agreement (allowing use of KeSPA players) with any other company. (IPL, DH, GSL) Not sure what else exclusivity with KeSPA can offer.
Hopefully it doesn't end up that way, but I really don't see what the point of exclusivity is otherwise.
On May 11 2012 18:57 Zealot Orgy wrote: Why is everyone so blind?
This is awful for the scene, they just put up a kespa-mlg restriction to all the kespa soon-to-be SC2 players and you are happy about it?
All the players signed with kespa will only be able to play in either MLG or kespa tournaments.
Which means no GSL, GSTL, IPL, DH, NASL, WCG and tons more.
It's just the same old kespa, but this time they recognized the "foreign power" in the SC2 scene, so rather than just starting a monopoly by themselves, which would not have been possible since the foreign scene has way too much money into SC2, they called in a foreign organization to start an oligopoly together and do just what they did in BW, cut off ALL contacts and interaction with tons of other SC2 tournaments.
Its not Kespa fault that West is not interested in following progaming. In 2 years it will be a repeat of BW's podium for Koreans ALWAYS. If you start sending NBA teams around the world they would start crushing opposition also. Now the question is what organizers will do in 2-3 years when the gap will be BW-like. Restricting Koreans like TSL earlier, or making Koreans west-friendly like current SC2 ones. Because SC2 will be global Korean esport. Blaming Kespa for this is like blaming someone for being too good. NBA is not accepting all the players, they are accepting the best ones that fit their league. Kespa was never anti-foreigner they gave free cards for foreigners like IdrA. Its just the ammount of sacriface needed to be even recognized there was incredibly high.
The fact is Korea took a gamble many years ago and made BW televised, made houses, pulled national sponsors etc., west hide their heads in sand and acknowledged BW "old game" because they couldn't compete with that. You are not understanding 1 fact, that mini-BW is already happening with scraps of BW scene that went to SC2, SC2 the unpopular game in Korea is beating world best ESPORTS nr1. in 2-3 years when SC2 will be recognizible game in Korea you will forget about foreigner pride. Like we forgot about Grrr....*
On May 11 2012 18:57 Zealot Orgy wrote: Why is everyone so blind?
This is awful for the scene, they just put up a kespa-mlg restriction to all the kespa soon-to-be SC2 players and you are happy about it?
All the players signed with kespa will only be able to play in either MLG or kespa tournaments.
Which means no GSL, GSTL, IPL, DH, NASL, WCG and tons more.
It's just the same old kespa, but this time they recognized the "foreign power" in the SC2 scene, so rather than just starting a monopoly by themselves, which would not have been possible since the foreign scene has way too much money into SC2, they called in a foreign organization to start an oligopoly together and do just what they did in BW, cut off ALL contacts and interaction with tons of other SC2 tournaments.
Didn't KeSPA clearly state their intentions to make the GSL like the MSL? Isn't the GSTL rumored to be combined with the Proleague? Didn't KeSPA always endorse entry into WCG and Blizzcon?
What is it you want, exactly? BW players traveling constantly, with no time to develop their SC2 skills and korean fanbase?
The only loser here is IPL.
Yeah I don't understand some people here and on reddit either. They freak out because they won't play at every tournament there is. Guess what, there is other things than 3-days-weekend tournaments (and they ain't even that good game quality vise compared to league matches). KeSPA players have 2 Proleague seasons per year, 5 months per season (It's 5 right?) and there is alot of preparation for their matches every week.
You are way to selfish if the only thing you can think of is that they won't play at DH, IPL, NASL, GSL and GSTL(lol) and whatever more tournaments there is out there. If you want to see them play you watch Proleague (and now MLG I guess). Pretty simple.
On May 11 2012 19:09 Blennd wrote: Why are people assuming the least natural interpretation of exclusive? Exclusive agreement between two companies would most naturally and obviously mean that the agreement is exclusive, i.e. that neither company is allowed to enter into a similar agreement with any other company. It would be very weird to call this an exclusive agreement if they meant that the deal would involve exclusive participation in one of the organization's leagues for players that are represented by the other organization. Exclusive agreement describes the nature of the agreement itself, not the nature of some of the content within the agreement.
Then how to you describe exclusive agreement which is actually exclusive ? Official announcements should be worded the right way, because otherwise this is what happens.
BW players playing SC2 in Anaheim... Huge surprise. I can't actually believe that. Also I don't know how this partnership will work. KeSPA players are busy most of the time and I don't think that there will be huge windows where they can go to MLG. Even if they find the time, that traveling will reduce their practice time and the level of their play which is bad.
On May 11 2012 18:57 Zealot Orgy wrote: Why is everyone so blind?
This is awful for the scene, they just put up a kespa-mlg restriction to all the kespa soon-to-be SC2 players and you are happy about it?
All the players signed with kespa will only be able to play in either MLG or kespa tournaments.
Which means no GSL, GSTL, IPL, DH, NASL, WCG and tons more.
It's just the same old kespa, but this time they recognized the "foreign power" in the SC2 scene, so rather than just starting a monopoly by themselves, which would not have been possible since the foreign scene has way too much money into SC2, they called in a foreign organization to start an oligopoly together and do just what they did in BW, cut off ALL contacts and interaction with tons of other SC2 tournaments.
Funny because in the previous announcements and interviews it was specifically stated that they wish to compete in the GSL and possibly the GSL. Also OGN want GSL and Kespa players in their league. I don't see why everyone is so butthurt right now. So we have these Kespa players which will be good. News flash, they aren't right now and we have a great enough scene anyway. If they want to go all monopoly bullshit then they won't be able to do it for a while.
You also forget the fact that a lot of Korean teams actually want to keep their players in Korea for the majority of the time, because the traveling hurts GSL performance as such. So if what said above was true Koreans will have 3 or 4 tournaments to practice for, also MLG. Plus all the current koreans can still go ANYWHERE. Also, if you are a sc2 fan you were gna watch MLG anyway. Also, it's free.
I just think this is less of an issue that people make out. Dreamhack shows this. One of the best tournaments to date, with a ton of viewers and production quality, and it has like the least amount of koreans for a long time.
On May 11 2012 18:57 Zealot Orgy wrote: Why is everyone so blind?
This is awful for the scene, they just put up a kespa-mlg restriction to all the kespa soon-to-be SC2 players and you are happy about it?
All the players signed with kespa will only be able to play in either MLG or kespa tournaments.
Which means no GSL, GSTL, IPL, DH, NASL, WCG and tons more.
It's just the same old kespa, but this time they recognized the "foreign power" in the SC2 scene, so rather than just starting a monopoly by themselves, which would not have been possible since the foreign scene has way too much money into SC2, they called in a foreign organization to start an oligopoly together and do just what they did in BW, cut off ALL contacts and interaction with tons of other SC2 tournaments.
Funny because in the previous announcements and interviews it was specifically stated that they wish to compete in the GSL and possibly the GSL. Also OGN want GSL and Kespa players in their league. I don't see why everyone is so butthurt right now. So we have these Kespa players which will be good. News flash, they aren't right now and we have a great enough scene anyway. If they want to go all monopoly bullshit then they won't be able to do it for a while.
You also forget the fact that a lot of Korean teams actually want to keep their players in Korea for the majority of the time, because the traveling hurts GSL performance as such. So if what said above was true Koreans will have 3 or 4 tournaments to practice for, also MLG. Plus all the current koreans can still go ANYWHERE. Also, if you are a sc2 fan you were gna watch MLG anyway. Also, it's free.
I just think this is less of an issue that people make out. Dreamhack shows this. One of the best tournaments to date, with a ton of viewers and production quality, and it has like the least amount of koreans for a long time.
It may or may not be an issue. But thing is if this exlusive deal is real, it is definetely worse for the scene, that it would be if it wasnt exclusive. A lot of people, i think, want to express concern, because they want to see open esports and real competition.
WCG LA, Blizzcon... "...marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States." is extremely false and inaccurate, perhaps MLG should reconsider that statement.
On the topic though, I just hope this doesn't mean they won't do more partnerships because it'd be sad to see KeSPA players only playing KeSPA leagues and MLG. There are so many other tournaments out there.
On May 11 2012 18:57 Zealot Orgy wrote: Why is everyone so blind?
This is awful for the scene, they just put up a kespa-mlg restriction to all the kespa soon-to-be SC2 players and you are happy about it?
All the players signed with kespa will only be able to play in either MLG or kespa tournaments.
Which means no GSL, GSTL, IPL, DH, NASL, WCG and tons more.
It's just the same old kespa, but this time they recognized the "foreign power" in the SC2 scene, so rather than just starting a monopoly by themselves, which would not have been possible since the foreign scene has way too much money into SC2, they called in a foreign organization to start an oligopoly together and do just what they did in BW, cut off ALL contacts and interaction with tons of other SC2 tournaments.
Funny because in the previous announcements and interviews it was specifically stated that they wish to compete in the GSL and possibly the GSL. Also OGN want GSL and Kespa players in their league. I don't see why everyone is so butthurt right now. So we have these Kespa players which will be good. News flash, they aren't right now and we have a great enough scene anyway. If they want to go all monopoly bullshit then they won't be able to do it for a while.
You also forget the fact that a lot of Korean teams actually want to keep their players in Korea for the majority of the time, because the traveling hurts GSL performance as such. So if what said above was true Koreans will have 3 or 4 tournaments to practice for, also MLG. Plus all the current koreans can still go ANYWHERE. Also, if you are a sc2 fan you were gna watch MLG anyway. Also, it's free.
I just think this is less of an issue that people make out. Dreamhack shows this. One of the best tournaments to date, with a ton of viewers and production quality, and it has like the least amount of koreans for a long time.
It may or may not be an issue. But thing is if this exlusive deal is real, it is definetely worse for the scene, that it would be if it wasnt exclusive. A lot of people, i think, want to express concern, because they want to see open esports and real competition.
You simply can't have the best players at every single event. It wasn't the case before and it won't be the case after KeSPA enters SC2. At least this way we have structure.
Hey, At least we can hear the end of the lie that is, 'We adore competition competition, we love competition all we want is more competition, we want to have sex with our competition we find them so sexy." which is constantly spouted while they passive aggresively snipe at competing tournaments on Twitter.
Its not the worst thing in the world for it to be MLG/Proleague vs GSL/IPL/DH at the highest level, it would create ample opportunity for many progamers to have success, and the competition would be fierce.
Just dont stop them participating in online leagues or everything will die out
On May 11 2012 19:33 Alexj wrote: No chance of seeing Flash at the next IEM Kiev?
Well, shit
People are acting like every single top Korean goes to every foreign tournament, and now this deal is in place everything will change. Well, sorry, but most events only get a handful of current top koreans. The way it stands... you won't lose anything... Nothing changes for any tournament. MLG get's flash etc but is Kespa the whole scene? No. Are Kespa players going to be amazing right now? No.
I'd say the majority of real SC2 fans watch MLG anyway. If not there are other tournaments to watch and they will be successful.
If exclusivity happened with the GSL players i'd be more worried. In fact we have reason to be worried when there are just multiple exclusive deals all over the place. Right now? No. Oh and on top of that, if people who love foreign tournaments such as DH, IEM, ETC MUST watch Kespa players but dislike MLG... Then you can watch Flash etc on Proleague or OGN SC2 league. Solution for you.
People need to stop wasting their time listening to anything Zealot Orgy says.
On May 11 2012 19:23 Xpace wrote: Nice. Europe needs to do something now!
European tournaments have always lagged way behind the US tournaments in terms of ambition and marketing. The production for Dreamhack and IEM are fine (especially Dreamhack) but the player pools have always been bad because unlike MLG and IPL they don't actively chase the best players in the world and thus they are always worse tournaments from a pure comeptitive stand point than MLG and IPL.
On May 11 2012 19:33 Alexj wrote: No chance of seeing Flash at the next IEM Kiev?
Well, shit
People are acting like every single top Korean goes to every foreign tournament, and now this deal is in place everything will change. Well, sorry, but most events only get a handful of current top koreans. The way it stands... you won't lose anything... Nothing changes for any tournament. MLG get's flash etc but is Kespa the whole scene? No. Are Kespa players going to be amazing right now? No.
I'd say the majority of real SC2 fans watch MLG anyway. If not there are other tournaments to watch and they will be successful.
If exclusivity happened with the GSL players i'd be more worried. In fact we have reason to be worried when there are just multiple exclusive deals all over the place. Right now? No. Oh and on top of that, if people who love foreign tournaments such as DH, IEM, ETC MUST watch Kespa players but dislike MLG... Then you can watch Flash etc on Proleague or OGN SC2 league. Solution for you.
How is that a solution when the poster obviously wanted to meet Flash in person and is upset that it might be impossible with an exclusivity deal?
On May 11 2012 19:33 Alexj wrote: No chance of seeing Flash at the next IEM Kiev?
Well, shit
People are acting like every single top Korean goes to every foreign tournament, and now this deal is in place everything will change. Well, sorry, but most events only get a handful of current top koreans. The way it stands... you won't lose anything... Nothing changes for any tournament. MLG get's flash etc but is Kespa the whole scene? No. Are Kespa players going to be amazing right now? No.
I'd say the majority of real SC2 fans watch MLG anyway. If not there are other tournaments to watch and they will be successful.
If exclusivity happened with the GSL players i'd be more worried. In fact we have reason to be worried when there are just multiple exclusive deals all over the place. Right now? No. Oh and on top of that, if people who love foreign tournaments such as DH, IEM, ETC MUST watch Kespa players but dislike MLG... Then you can watch Flash etc on Proleague or OGN SC2 league. Solution for you.
How is that a solution when the poster obviously wanted to meet Flash in person and is upset that it might be impossible with an exclusivity deal?
Flash was never ever going to miss pro league/practice to make $6k dollars from an IEM (assuming he wins) with a $1500 travel costs.
On May 11 2012 18:13 niilzon wrote: Please excuse me for my unawareness, as I really don't have the time to read a few comments : does that mean that player appareances like Flash or JaeDong for sc2 are possible, if those players are selected ? Thanks for the info!
Means that , and also a lot of other things. based on waxangel translation we may have something like the FIFA a world wife governing body for e-sports.
Oh shit I want a world wife with a governing body!
On May 11 2012 19:33 Alexj wrote: No chance of seeing Flash at the next IEM Kiev?
Well, shit
People are acting like every single top Korean goes to every foreign tournament, and now this deal is in place everything will change. Well, sorry, but most events only get a handful of current top koreans. The way it stands... you won't lose anything... Nothing changes for any tournament. MLG get's flash etc but is Kespa the whole scene? No. Are Kespa players going to be amazing right now? No.
I'd say the majority of real SC2 fans watch MLG anyway. If not there are other tournaments to watch and they will be successful.
If exclusivity happened with the GSL players i'd be more worried. In fact we have reason to be worried when there are just multiple exclusive deals all over the place. Right now? No. Oh and on top of that, if people who love foreign tournaments such as DH, IEM, ETC MUST watch Kespa players but dislike MLG... Then you can watch Flash etc on Proleague or OGN SC2 league. Solution for you.
How is that a solution when the poster obviously wanted to meet Flash in person and is upset that it might be impossible with an exclusivity deal?
Flash was never ever going to miss pro league/practice to make $6k dollars from an IEM (assuming he wins) with a $1500 travel costs.
I won't argue with that, It's still a sad situation though.
On May 11 2012 19:33 Alexj wrote: No chance of seeing Flash at the next IEM Kiev?
Well, shit
People are acting like every single top Korean goes to every foreign tournament, and now this deal is in place everything will change. Well, sorry, but most events only get a handful of current top koreans. The way it stands... you won't lose anything... Nothing changes for any tournament. MLG get's flash etc but is Kespa the whole scene? No. Are Kespa players going to be amazing right now? No.
I'd say the majority of real SC2 fans watch MLG anyway. If not there are other tournaments to watch and they will be successful.
If exclusivity happened with the GSL players i'd be more worried. In fact we have reason to be worried when there are just multiple exclusive deals all over the place. Right now? No. Oh and on top of that, if people who love foreign tournaments such as DH, IEM, ETC MUST watch Kespa players but dislike MLG... Then you can watch Flash etc on Proleague or OGN SC2 league. Solution for you.
How is that a solution when the poster obviously wanted to meet Flash in person and is upset that it might be impossible with an exclusivity deal?
Flash was never ever going to miss pro league/practice to make $6k dollars from an IEM (assuming he wins) with a $1500 travel costs.
I won't argue with that, It's still a sad situation though.
I don't think it is. They will have extremely tight schedule's so the fact we're seeing them at all is almost a bonus (as is the fact they're switching in the first place) and if they have to attend one tournament most people would agree that MLG is the biggest and best foreign tournament. It's also a tournament rammed full of GSL players so we will get to see them play vs GOM players after Anaheim.
On May 11 2012 19:33 Alexj wrote: No chance of seeing Flash at the next IEM Kiev?
Well, shit
People are acting like every single top Korean goes to every foreign tournament, and now this deal is in place everything will change. Well, sorry, but most events only get a handful of current top koreans. The way it stands... you won't lose anything... Nothing changes for any tournament. MLG get's flash etc but is Kespa the whole scene? No. Are Kespa players going to be amazing right now? No.
I'd say the majority of real SC2 fans watch MLG anyway. If not there are other tournaments to watch and they will be successful.
If exclusivity happened with the GSL players i'd be more worried. In fact we have reason to be worried when there are just multiple exclusive deals all over the place. Right now? No. Oh and on top of that, if people who love foreign tournaments such as DH, IEM, ETC MUST watch Kespa players but dislike MLG... Then you can watch Flash etc on Proleague or OGN SC2 league. Solution for you.
How is that a solution when the poster obviously wanted to meet Flash in person and is upset that it might be impossible with an exclusivity deal?
Flash was never ever going to miss pro league/practice to make $6k dollars from an IEM (assuming he wins) with a $1500 travel costs.
I won't argue with that, It's still a sad situation though.
I don't think it is. They will have extremely tight schedule's so the fact we're seeing them at all is almost a bonus (as is the fact they're switching in the first place) and if they have to attend one tournament most people would agree that MLG is the biggest and best foreign tournament. It's also a tournament rammed full of GSL players so we will get to see them play vs GOM players after Anaheim.
You're forgetting the other players though. I see no reason why the other ~100 progamers not named Flash that probably won't all be attending MLG's shouldn't be able to attend an IEM given they have time between matches. If it's exclusive (which is unsure since the Korean translation apparently leaves that part out) this binds all KeSPA players, not just the big names.
On May 11 2012 19:23 Xpace wrote: Nice. Europe needs to do something now!
European tournaments have always lagged way behind the US tournaments in terms of ambition and marketing. The production for Dreamhack and IEM are fine (especially Dreamhack) but the player pools have always been bad because unlike MLG and IPL they don't actively chase the best players in the world and thus they are always worse tournaments from a pure comeptitive stand point than MLG and IPL.
Thats why we (europe) have players and the NA has Destiny and the rest of the merry band of e-celebrities.
On May 11 2012 20:28 NightOfTheDead wrote: I dont see how any sort of restriction to natural player movement (which means their coaches/teams have the say ONLY) is not bad.
Because the deal is presumably that MLG are forking out for travel costs, as well as they're avoiding schedule conflicts.
The reason Dreamhack and IEM don't have many (if any) top players at their events is because they don't pay full stipends to players. Most players won't travel cross continent for low prize pools like Dreamhack and IEM offer at most of their events.
This isn't a situation where by KESPA player were going to attend everything and now KESPA says they can only attend MLG's, it's a situation where they were attending nothing outside of Korea and now thanks to MLG opening their wallets they will attend some foreign events.
On May 11 2012 20:18 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: People need to stop wasting their time listening to anything Zealot Orgy says.
On May 11 2012 19:23 Xpace wrote: Nice. Europe needs to do something now!
European tournaments have always lagged way behind the US tournaments in terms of ambition and marketing. The production for Dreamhack and IEM are fine (especially Dreamhack) but the player pools have always been bad because unlike MLG and IPL they don't actively chase the best players in the world and thus they are always worse tournaments from a pure comeptitive stand point than MLG and IPL.
Thats why we (europe) have players and the NA has Destiny and the rest of the merry band of e-celebrities.
That's not really the reason. Whichever Koreans do attend EU lan's usually win them. Huk alone (an NA player) has won almost as many premier EU lan's (with Koreans in attendence) as Europeans have.
On May 11 2012 20:28 NightOfTheDead wrote: I dont see how any sort of restriction to natural player movement (which means their coaches/teams have the say ONLY) is not bad.
Because the deal is presumably that MLG are forking out for travel costs, as well as they're avoiding schedule conflicts.
The reason Dreamhack and IEM don't have many (if any) top players at their events is because they don't pay full stipends to players. Most players won't travel cross continent for low prize pools like Dreamhack and IEM offer at most of their events.
This isn't a situation where by KESPA player were going to attend everything and now KESPA says they can only attend MLG's, it's a situation where they were attending nothing outside of Korea and now thanks to MLG opening their wallets they will attend some foreign events.
I think its better than fighting for peanuts while having their trip paid.
On May 11 2012 20:28 NightOfTheDead wrote: I dont see how any sort of restriction to natural player movement (which means their coaches/teams have the say ONLY) is not bad.
Because the deal is presumably that MLG are forking out for travel costs, as well as they're avoiding schedule conflicts.
The reason Dreamhack and IEM don't have many (if any) top players at their events is because they don't pay full stipends to players. Most players won't travel cross continent for low prize pools like Dreamhack and IEM offer at most of their events.
This isn't a situation where by KESPA player were going to attend everything and now KESPA says they can only attend MLG's, it's a situation where they were attending nothing outside of Korea and now thanks to MLG opening their wallets they will attend some foreign events.
I think its better than fighting for peanuts while having their trip paid.
Except that tournament doesn't exist anymore because MLG now have bigger prize pools and paid trips.
Not to mention that on SOTG all the players disagreed with you and said stipends are better than prize pools. So evidently, you're wrong, it's not better.
This thread is/has basically become about Europe versus NA eSports. One vague and non-descript aspect of the announcement has sparked a pointless argument. At least wait for details before flipping out.
On May 11 2012 18:38 Josh_rakoons wrote: I highly doubt it's as cut-throat as you think it is, Hrrrrm.
See I initially thought it wasn't as cutthroat but, then Sundance tweeted this. There is no point in running a business like MLG and pouring in as much money as they are if it isn't cutthroat. I just hope that people stopping believing them on the whole MLG=eSports and the crying of poverty. MLG=MLG and nothing else. Everyone that believed that garbage was played like a fiddle since I highly doubt Kespa is signing an exclusive deal and not getting some type of monetary gain. MLG needs Kespa more than Kespa needs MLG since the BW Pro's could show up to any event, even a local $100 LAN and it would get monster views.
Kespa doesn't need MLG for anything "exclusively" yet they are doing it. This is all in MLG's best interest because they are hoping to deprive other tournaments of talent and in something like SC2 talent is what makes/breaks a tournament. Which was MLG's problem right from the beginning when they didn't have any Koreans attending their events. I'm just glad D3 is literally around the corner and I won't be as invested in following the SC2 scene since I'll be watching from an arm's length come May 15th. Be careful what you wish for.
On May 11 2012 20:28 NightOfTheDead wrote: I dont see how any sort of restriction to natural player movement (which means their coaches/teams have the say ONLY) is not bad.
Because the deal is presumably that MLG are forking out for travel costs, as well as they're avoiding schedule conflicts.
The reason Dreamhack and IEM don't have many (if any) top players at their events is because they don't pay full stipends to players. Most players won't travel cross continent for low prize pools like Dreamhack and IEM offer at most of their events.
This isn't a situation where by KESPA player were going to attend everything and now KESPA says they can only attend MLG's, it's a situation where they were attending nothing outside of Korea and now thanks to MLG opening their wallets they will attend some foreign events.
I'm so glad you know what BW Pro players/teams were planning or not planning to do before they ever announced a single thing. This is a move by MLG to just get a strangle hold on Kespa talent. That is all this is, nothing more and nothing less. Are you aware that now even if Kespa players wanted to attend some events in the months when they are out of the playoff running in Proleague they just can't? That means they are basically at MLG's mercy even if other events are being held and the BW Pro's are doing nothing. Stop being short sighted.
On May 11 2012 17:28 Zealos wrote: Honestly, I don't think MLG would want to "Force" the bw pro's from only playing in their tournaments. Considering the way the community can react to what they perceive at wrong, it seems like it would be a poor business choice on their part.
On May 11 2012 20:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: + Show Spoiler +
On May 11 2012 20:28 NightOfTheDead wrote: I dont see how any sort of restriction to natural player movement (which means their coaches/teams have the say ONLY) is not bad.
This isn't a situation where by KESPA player were going to attend everything and now KESPA says they can only attend MLG's, it's a situation where they were attending nothing outside of Korea and now thanks to MLG opening their wallets they will attend some foreign events.
Why is there a presumption that they would not attend anything outside of Korea. Sure players of Flash caliber wont for many reasons, but other players, who would not participate in televised matches (for that period of time), but still are on the teams, could. Those players just never had such practice to do so. But such agreements close the doors for any kind of interraction for those lesser BW players.
So I just read the official statement from the KeSPA side. I didn't read anything there about this partnership being exclusive. Can someone clarify? Might just be something lost in translation.
so no one cares anymore about the horror stories of how kespa have acted over the years and just because of the money they may bring in to the scene we are gonna shower them with praise? ;/
On May 11 2012 17:28 Zealos wrote: Honestly, I don't think MLG would want to "Force" the bw pro's from only playing in their tournaments. Considering the way the community can react to what they perceive at wrong, it seems like it would be a poor business choice on their part.
It's already happening.
no it's not. Waxangel translated the korean article and there is nothing mentioning it.
On May 11 2012 20:53 turdburgler wrote: so no one cares anymore about the horror stories of how kespa have acted over the years and just because of the money they may bring in to the scene we are gonna shower them with praise? ;/
On May 11 2012 20:47 Kommander wrote: So I just read the official statement from the KeSPA side. I didn't read anything there about this partnership being exclusive. Can someone clarify? Might just be something lost in translation.
"Exclusive" is a common PR stunt by MLG to sell there PPV passes...
I think most other tournaments are waiting till 20th to see if its worthy to get the Kespa pros for their tournaments.
On May 11 2012 20:53 turdburgler wrote: so no one cares anymore about the horror stories of how kespa have acted over the years and just because of the money they may bring in to the scene we are gonna shower them with praise? ;/
Over night they all stopped caring about how dangerous Kespa exerting control over players is even though it seems MLG is jumping at the chance to join them in that. It's all excuses about how good it is for ESPORTS now that the only way to see Flash in a foreign tournament is to buy a mlg ppv
Sundance DiGiovanni @MLGSundance No comment on the exclusivity other than to say that it is exclusive. jumbo shrimp. pretty ugly. knife to a gun fight and all that stuff.
Makes me pretty sad actually, this is not the way to go.
If this does mean that MLG/Kespa players can not play in any other brand of tournament, this is an awful day for Starcraft 2 and eSports, and may end up actually killing it.
The reason the Starcraft community is so strong right now is because MLG, GSL, NASL, IPL, ESL, Dreamhack and all the others are able to invite any player to their tournaments.
Sundance DiGiovanni @MLGSundance No comment on the exclusivity other than to say that it is exclusive. jumbo shrimp. pretty ugly. knife to a gun fight and all that stuff.
Makes me pretty sad actually, this is not the way to go.
Sundance DiGiovanni @MLGSundance No comment on the exclusivity other than to say that it is exclusive. jumbo shrimp. pretty ugly. knife to a gun fight and all that stuff.
Makes me pretty sad actually, this is not the way to go.
Yeah, I agree . MLG wants a monopoly..
That quote doesn't say anything really about what exclusive really means in this context. The whole point on adding in jumbo shrimp, pretty ugly, ect was to indicate the misnomer.
On May 11 2012 17:28 Zealos wrote: Honestly, I don't think MLG would want to "Force" the bw pro's from only playing in their tournaments. Considering the way the community can react to what they perceive at wrong, it seems like it would be a poor business choice on their part.
It's already happening.
no it's not. Waxangel translated the korean article and there is nothing mentioning it.
So? Kespa isn't known for transparency or truthfulness. You think Sundance just made it up when he tweeted exclusivity?
I actually predict there to be three groups and three types of tournaments. The foreigners and their tourneys, and the old time GSL sc2 player and the newer sc2 broodwars. There will be a few players who will overlap and play outside their "circles" but many will generally keep to themselves.
On May 11 2012 18:38 Josh_rakoons wrote: I highly doubt it's as cut-throat as you think it is, Hrrrrm.
See I initially thought it wasn't as cutthroat but, then Sundance tweeted this. There is no point in running a business like MLG and pouring in as much money as they are if it isn't cutthroat. I just hope that people stopping believing them on the whole MLG=eSports and the crying of poverty. MLG=MLG and nothing else. Everyone that believed that garbage was played like a fiddle since I highly doubt Kespa is signing an exclusive deal and not getting some type of monetary gain. MLG needs Kespa more than Kespa needs MLG since the BW Pro's could show up to any event, even a local $100 LAN and it would get monster views.
Kespa doesn't need MLG for anything "exclusively" yet they are doing it. This is all in MLG's best interest because they are hoping to deprive other tournaments of talent and in something like SC2 talent is what makes/breaks a tournament. Which was MLG's problem right from the beginning when they didn't have any Koreans attending their events. I'm just glad D3 is literally around the corner and I won't be as invested in following the SC2 scene since I'll be watching from an arm's length come May 15th. Be careful what you wish for.
On May 11 2012 20:28 NightOfTheDead wrote: I dont see how any sort of restriction to natural player movement (which means their coaches/teams have the say ONLY) is not bad.
Because the deal is presumably that MLG are forking out for travel costs, as well as they're avoiding schedule conflicts.
The reason Dreamhack and IEM don't have many (if any) top players at their events is because they don't pay full stipends to players. Most players won't travel cross continent for low prize pools like Dreamhack and IEM offer at most of their events.
This isn't a situation where by KESPA player were going to attend everything and now KESPA says they can only attend MLG's, it's a situation where they were attending nothing outside of Korea and now thanks to MLG opening their wallets they will attend some foreign events.
I'm so glad you know what BW Pro players/teams were planning or not planning to do before they ever announced a single thing. This is a move by MLG to just get a strangle hold on Kespa talent. That is all this is, nothing more and nothing less. Are you aware that now even if Kespa players wanted to attend some events in the months when they are out of the playoff running in Proleague they just can't? That means they are basically at MLG's mercy even if other events are being held and the BW Pro's are doing nothing. Stop being short sighted.
I won't waste my time talking to the tin foil hat brigade.
From Sundance announcement we see how much he is truly interested in Esports (aka $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$).
This is a BS move from him to get exclusive rights to get this players BUT i don't think it will affect us that much in the end since the players from Kespa won't be ready for engagements with older players.
Sundance DiGiovanni @MLGSundance No comment on the exclusivity other than to say that it is exclusive. jumbo shrimp. pretty ugly. knife to a gun fight and all that stuff.
Makes me pretty sad actually, this is not the way to go.
Yeah, I agree . MLG wants a monopoly..
That quote doesn't say anything really about what exclusive really means in this context. The whole point on adding in jumbo shrimp, pretty ugly, ect was to indicate the misnomer.
Glad I wasn't the only one who caught that.
Probably still an amazing day for eSports, we just have to wait for more details.
On May 11 2012 21:16 Chloroplaste wrote: Exclusive... Payperview... I don't care about this tournament.
MLG championships are not PPV.
btw Sundance just tweeted:
Sundance DiGiovanni @MLGSundance Things not mentioned last night. East / West training program with team house exchange. Western players earning spots to compete in Korea
Sundance DiGiovanni @MLGSundance More things not mentioned last night Global content distribution partnership. Looking at other games. I still like boats. Happy Friday
If there is exclusivity, then fuck you MLG. Europeans are pretty much screwed since they won't realistically be able to meet their favourite BW players if they ONLY play at MLG and in Korea... If there isn't exclusivity, then it's pretty good news
So if I've understood this correctly, MLG is the only foreign tournament in which KeSPA players are allowed to play, and tournaments run by KeSPA are the only ones they're allowed to play in in Korea? Invitationals are not allowed to invite any players associated with KeSPA?
On May 11 2012 21:30 Linwelin wrote: If there is exclusivity, then fuck you MLG. Europeans are pretty much screwed since they won't realistically be able to meet their favourite BW players if they ONLY play at MLG and in Korea... If there isn't exclusivity, then it's pretty good news
Europeans weren't exactly filled with options for meeting our favourite current Koreans. Most of the biggest names (MVP, MMA, DRG, MKP, Nestea, MC) aren't in Europe that often with the exception of MC. Not to mention it's hardly cheap for most Europeans to travel to Germany or Sweden for the weekend and I don't think many people were going to these events anyway who weren't from the country they were in.
On May 11 2012 21:30 Linwelin wrote: If there is exclusivity, then fuck you MLG. Europeans are pretty much screwed since they won't realistically be able to meet their favourite BW players if they ONLY play at MLG and in Korea... If there isn't exclusivity, then it's pretty good news
Europeans weren't exactly filled with options for meeting our favourite current Koreans. Most of the biggest names (MVP, MMA, DRG, MKP, Nestea, MC) aren't in Europe that often with the exception of MC. Not to mention it's hardly cheap for most Europeans to travel to Germany or Sweden for the weekend and I don't think many people were going to these events anyway who weren't from the country they were in.
Well MMA and Nestea were in Paris like a week ago, remember? Yea koreans are more often in the US but that's not a particularly good argument. Also, traveling to Sweden for a Dreamhack or to Germany for IEM is way easier (and cheaper) than going to the US
On May 11 2012 15:30 Bart wrote: ooo I feel a bit sad for Gom. It's like MLG is the dude and they dumped Gom for the hotter and more "exprienced" Kespa. Maybe cos I joined the bandwagon when SC2 came out and wasn't a fan of SC BW.
More like GOM dumped MLG for the younger hotter IPL and is now watching MLG get married to the hottest girl in Korea, jealosy will ensue.
On May 11 2012 15:30 Bart wrote: ooo I feel a bit sad for Gom. It's like MLG is the dude and they dumped Gom for the hotter and more "exprienced" Kespa. Maybe cos I joined the bandwagon when SC2 came out and wasn't a fan of SC BW.
More like GOM dumped MLG for the younger hotter IPL and is now watching MLG get married to the hottest grandma in Korea, jealosy will ensue.
I"m not sure why everyone is complaining. This was pretty clearly going to happen after MLG and GSL ended their partnership. If MLG wasn't doing it this way, I really don't think anyone else like IPL or NASL could be doing it differently.
Hehe, looks like we are up for some serious competition in US. Its hard to say more withut knowing exactly what "exclusive" means. But i doubt it will have serious impact on EU, i mean Dreamhack and IEM model are pretty much not affected by this either way, so they are here to stay.
On May 11 2012 21:30 Linwelin wrote: If there is exclusivity, then fuck you MLG. Europeans are pretty much screwed since they won't realistically be able to meet their favourite BW players if they ONLY play at MLG and in Korea... If there isn't exclusivity, then it's pretty good news
Europeans weren't exactly filled with options for meeting our favourite current Koreans. Most of the biggest names (MVP, MMA, DRG, MKP, Nestea, MC) aren't in Europe that often with the exception of MC. Not to mention it's hardly cheap for most Europeans to travel to Germany or Sweden for the weekend and I don't think many people were going to these events anyway who weren't from the country they were in.
Well MMA and Nestea were in Paris like a week ago, remember? Yea koreans are more often in the US but that's not a particularly good argument. Also, traveling to Sweden for a Dreamhack or to Germany for IEM is way easier (and cheaper) than going to the US
You're complaining about this deal denying you something that you never really had in the first place.
If you were regularly shelling out 1000 Euros to go to Sweden from Ireland to see MC then fair enough, this deal might lose you something but I really doubt you or many other people were.
USA costs more than Sweden and Germany sure, but the USA is also a much better place to visit especially over Sweden.
On May 11 2012 15:30 Bart wrote: ooo I feel a bit sad for Gom. It's like MLG is the dude and they dumped Gom for the hotter and more "exprienced" Kespa. Maybe cos I joined the bandwagon when SC2 came out and wasn't a fan of SC BW.
More like GOM dumped MLG for the younger hotter IPL and is now watching MLG get married to the hottest girl in Korea, jealosy will ensue.
Yeah, sure some people might not like it, but this is in MLG's best interest. And GOM screwed them over before, sure a lot of us don't like KeSPA but they are a lot more professional than GOM.
On May 11 2012 15:30 Bart wrote: ooo I feel a bit sad for Gom. It's like MLG is the dude and they dumped Gom for the hotter and more "exprienced" Kespa. Maybe cos I joined the bandwagon when SC2 came out and wasn't a fan of SC BW.
More like GOM dumped MLG for the younger hotter IPL and is now watching MLG get married to the hottest girl in Korea, jealosy will ensue.
Yeah, sure some people might not like it, but this is in MLG's best interest. And GOM screwed them over before, sure a lot of us don't like KeSPA but they are a lot more professional than GOM.
GOM is still way more professional than any foreign tournament.
On May 11 2012 21:30 Linwelin wrote: If there is exclusivity, then fuck you MLG. Europeans are pretty much screwed since they won't realistically be able to meet their favourite BW players if they ONLY play at MLG and in Korea... If there isn't exclusivity, then it's pretty good news
Europeans weren't exactly filled with options for meeting our favourite current Koreans. Most of the biggest names (MVP, MMA, DRG, MKP, Nestea, MC) aren't in Europe that often with the exception of MC. Not to mention it's hardly cheap for most Europeans to travel to Germany or Sweden for the weekend and I don't think many people were going to these events anyway who weren't from the country they were in.
Well MMA and Nestea were in Paris like a week ago, remember? Yea koreans are more often in the US but that's not a particularly good argument. Also, traveling to Sweden for a Dreamhack or to Germany for IEM is way easier (and cheaper) than going to the US
You're complaining about this deal denying you something that you never really had in the first place.
If you were regularly shelling out 1000 Euros to go to Sweden from Ireland to see MC then fair enough, this deal might lose you something but I really doubt you or many other people were.
USA costs more than Sweden and Germany sure, but the USA is also a much better place to visit especially over Sweden.
It doesn't cost 1000 Euros to travel from Ireland to sweden, rather 50-60 euros (excl. accommodation)
On May 11 2012 15:30 Bart wrote: ooo I feel a bit sad for Gom. It's like MLG is the dude and they dumped Gom for the hotter and more "exprienced" Kespa. Maybe cos I joined the bandwagon when SC2 came out and wasn't a fan of SC BW.
More like GOM dumped MLG for the younger hotter IPL and is now watching MLG get married to the hottest grandma in Korea, jealosy will ensue.
Fixed that for you
LOL!, with age come experience, Kespa may be better in the sack
Fun for those who watch MLG and like to see broodwar players in MLG. Altough it feels like MLG is trying to get a monopoly on the pro scene, and the Dreamhack "friends" thing is just there because they know that dreamhack will happen anyway, with our without sc2.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
On May 11 2012 21:30 Linwelin wrote: If there is exclusivity, then fuck you MLG. Europeans are pretty much screwed since they won't realistically be able to meet their favourite BW players if they ONLY play at MLG and in Korea... If there isn't exclusivity, then it's pretty good news
Europeans weren't exactly filled with options for meeting our favourite current Koreans. Most of the biggest names (MVP, MMA, DRG, MKP, Nestea, MC) aren't in Europe that often with the exception of MC. Not to mention it's hardly cheap for most Europeans to travel to Germany or Sweden for the weekend and I don't think many people were going to these events anyway who weren't from the country they were in.
Well MMA and Nestea were in Paris like a week ago, remember? Yea koreans are more often in the US but that's not a particularly good argument. Also, traveling to Sweden for a Dreamhack or to Germany for IEM is way easier (and cheaper) than going to the US
You're complaining about this deal denying you something that you never really had in the first place.
If you were regularly shelling out 1000 Euros to go to Sweden from Ireland to see MC then fair enough, this deal might lose you something but I really doubt you or many other people were.
USA costs more than Sweden and Germany sure, but the USA is also a much better place to visit especially over Sweden.
It doesn't cost 1000 Euros to travel from Ireland to sweden, rather 50-60 euros (excl. accommodation)
What? Why would you exclude accomodation. There's no way you're going to get from Ireland to Sweden and back (including taxi/train to the airport in Ireland/Stockholm) pay for three day's accomodation, plus a pass for Dreamhack and food while you are there for less than 600 euros, and that's if you stay somewhere really shitty and eat crappy food and don't see any of Stockholm while you're there.
The Plane tickets also cost way, way more than you said.
On May 11 2012 15:30 Bart wrote: ooo I feel a bit sad for Gom. It's like MLG is the dude and they dumped Gom for the hotter and more "exprienced" Kespa. Maybe cos I joined the bandwagon when SC2 came out and wasn't a fan of SC BW.
More like GOM dumped MLG for the younger hotter IPL and is now watching MLG get married to the hottest girl in Korea, jealosy will ensue.
Yeah, sure some people might not like it, but this is in MLG's best interest. And GOM screwed them over before, sure a lot of us don't like KeSPA but they are a lot more professional than GOM.
I would not call KeSPA more professional than GOM. ._.
They've both made some pretty boneheaded moves in the past.
On May 11 2012 21:30 Linwelin wrote: If there is exclusivity, then fuck you MLG. Europeans are pretty much screwed since they won't realistically be able to meet their favourite BW players if they ONLY play at MLG and in Korea... If there isn't exclusivity, then it's pretty good news
Europeans weren't exactly filled with options for meeting our favourite current Koreans. Most of the biggest names (MVP, MMA, DRG, MKP, Nestea, MC) aren't in Europe that often with the exception of MC. Not to mention it's hardly cheap for most Europeans to travel to Germany or Sweden for the weekend and I don't think many people were going to these events anyway who weren't from the country they were in.
Well MMA and Nestea were in Paris like a week ago, remember? Yea koreans are more often in the US but that's not a particularly good argument. Also, traveling to Sweden for a Dreamhack or to Germany for IEM is way easier (and cheaper) than going to the US
You're complaining about this deal denying you something that you never really had in the first place.
If you were regularly shelling out 1000 Euros to go to Sweden from Ireland to see MC then fair enough, this deal might lose you something but I really doubt you or many other people were.
USA costs more than Sweden and Germany sure, but the USA is also a much better place to visit especially over Sweden.
First of all, traveling in Europe rarely costs 1000 euros. I can get a flight ticket to Stockolm for about 400 euros, add hotel etc still not even close to 1000 euros.
Then, I never really was an MC fan so I didn't go see him at IEM or Dreamhack. However I'm a very big fan of some Kespa players and if some of them could participate at IEM/Dreamhack, I would most certainly go in order to meet them.
About the US being a much better place to visit, well that's a retarded thing to say. You know different people like different things/places! (crazy I know)
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
Tongue in cheek.
They also participated at Blizzcon I believe.
Yup, but WCG was the first International tournament that KeSPA players competed in. Makes perfect sense considering Samsung is the major sponsor.
On May 11 2012 21:30 Linwelin wrote: If there is exclusivity, then fuck you MLG. Europeans are pretty much screwed since they won't realistically be able to meet their favourite BW players if they ONLY play at MLG and in Korea... If there isn't exclusivity, then it's pretty good news
Europeans weren't exactly filled with options for meeting our favourite current Koreans. Most of the biggest names (MVP, MMA, DRG, MKP, Nestea, MC) aren't in Europe that often with the exception of MC. Not to mention it's hardly cheap for most Europeans to travel to Germany or Sweden for the weekend and I don't think many people were going to these events anyway who weren't from the country they were in.
Well MMA and Nestea were in Paris like a week ago, remember? Yea koreans are more often in the US but that's not a particularly good argument. Also, traveling to Sweden for a Dreamhack or to Germany for IEM is way easier (and cheaper) than going to the US
You're complaining about this deal denying you something that you never really had in the first place.
If you were regularly shelling out 1000 Euros to go to Sweden from Ireland to see MC then fair enough, this deal might lose you something but I really doubt you or many other people were.
USA costs more than Sweden and Germany sure, but the USA is also a much better place to visit especially over Sweden.
It doesn't cost 1000 Euros to travel from Ireland to sweden, rather 50-60 euros (excl. accommodation)
What? Why would you exclude accomodation. There's no way you're going to get from Ireland to Sweden and back (including taxi/train to the airport in Ireland/Stockholm) pay for three day's accomodation, plus a pass for Dreamhack and food while you are there for less than 600 euros, and that's if you stay somewhere really shitty and eat crappy food and don't see any of Stockholm while you're there.
The Plane tickets also cost way, way more than you said.
If this means that GSL players can't compete at MLG then that's horrible but we should all wait for more details before speculating the worst case scenario.
On May 11 2012 21:30 Linwelin wrote: If there is exclusivity, then fuck you MLG. Europeans are pretty much screwed since they won't realistically be able to meet their favourite BW players if they ONLY play at MLG and in Korea... If there isn't exclusivity, then it's pretty good news
Europeans weren't exactly filled with options for meeting our favourite current Koreans. Most of the biggest names (MVP, MMA, DRG, MKP, Nestea, MC) aren't in Europe that often with the exception of MC. Not to mention it's hardly cheap for most Europeans to travel to Germany or Sweden for the weekend and I don't think many people were going to these events anyway who weren't from the country they were in.
Well MMA and Nestea were in Paris like a week ago, remember? Yea koreans are more often in the US but that's not a particularly good argument. Also, traveling to Sweden for a Dreamhack or to Germany for IEM is way easier (and cheaper) than going to the US
You're complaining about this deal denying you something that you never really had in the first place.
If you were regularly shelling out 1000 Euros to go to Sweden from Ireland to see MC then fair enough, this deal might lose you something but I really doubt you or many other people were.
USA costs more than Sweden and Germany sure, but the USA is also a much better place to visit especially over Sweden.
First of all, traveling in Europe rarely costs 1000 euros. I can get a flight ticket to Stockolm for about 400 euros, add hotel etc still not even close to 1000 euros.
Then, I never really was an MC fan so I didn't go see him at IEM or Dreamhack. However I'm a very big fan of some Kespa players and if some of them could participate at IEM/Dreamhack, I would most certainly go in order to meet them.
About the US being a much better place to visit, well that's a retarded thing to say. You know different people like different things/places! (crazy I know)
You find me a decent place to stay in Stockholm for four nights (you need to arrive a day early obviously or you miss the first day), a flight there and back for less than 700/800 euros total. Plus you then need a Dreamhack pass and money for airport travel or parking and money for food and travel while you're there. Plus some Dreamhack's aren't even in Stockholm they're in another part of Sweden meaning you need to either rent a car or get a train to whereever the actual event is. There's no way you can do all that cheaply. Believe me I considered it from the UK many times but in the end it adds up to as much if not more than a normal holiday.
On May 11 2012 21:56 Doodsmack wrote: If this means that GSL players can't compete at MLG then that's horrible but we should all wait for more details before speculating the worst case scenario.
Kespa players are there outside of MLG main event. But when they will finally be able to compete in it then it will be a time when NA players will be drooping after first round.
On May 11 2012 21:30 Linwelin wrote: If there is exclusivity, then fuck you MLG. Europeans are pretty much screwed since they won't realistically be able to meet their favourite BW players if they ONLY play at MLG and in Korea... If there isn't exclusivity, then it's pretty good news
Europeans weren't exactly filled with options for meeting our favourite current Koreans. Most of the biggest names (MVP, MMA, DRG, MKP, Nestea, MC) aren't in Europe that often with the exception of MC. Not to mention it's hardly cheap for most Europeans to travel to Germany or Sweden for the weekend and I don't think many people were going to these events anyway who weren't from the country they were in.
Well MMA and Nestea were in Paris like a week ago, remember? Yea koreans are more often in the US but that's not a particularly good argument. Also, traveling to Sweden for a Dreamhack or to Germany for IEM is way easier (and cheaper) than going to the US
You're complaining about this deal denying you something that you never really had in the first place.
If you were regularly shelling out 1000 Euros to go to Sweden from Ireland to see MC then fair enough, this deal might lose you something but I really doubt you or many other people were.
USA costs more than Sweden and Germany sure, but the USA is also a much better place to visit especially over Sweden.
It doesn't cost 1000 Euros to travel from Ireland to sweden, rather 50-60 euros (excl. accommodation)
What? Why would you exclude accomodation. There's no way you're going to get from Ireland to Sweden and back (including taxi/train to the airport in Ireland/Stockholm) pay for three day's accomodation, plus a pass for Dreamhack and food while you are there for less than 600 euros, and that's if you stay somewhere really shitty and eat crappy food and don't see any of Stockholm while you're there.
The Plane tickets also cost way, way more than you said.
On May 11 2012 21:56 Doodsmack wrote: If this means that GSL players can't compete at MLG then that's horrible but we should all wait for more details before speculating the worst case scenario.
Quit having a regular reaction. It's supposed to go like this...
OH MY PPV GOD MLG SO BAD PPV NO PPV KOREANS ANYWHERE ELSE PPV PPV PPV.
Overreactions and correcting the stupid USA tournament thing.
On May 11 2012 22:00 Da.Frozzy wrote: so good, please just let the kespa players play in that foreign championships.
will be a sick event
Kespa players are tied to Kespa and their partners. I don't think you will see a Kespa player at Homestory Cup or IPL etc.
Dreamhack and MLG are cooperating so that might be a possibility and I believe MLG and IEM are in negotiations at the moment but I don't know what that will mean for Kespa players exactly.
On May 11 2012 15:30 Bart wrote: ooo I feel a bit sad for Gom. It's like MLG is the dude and they dumped Gom for the hotter and more "exprienced" Kespa. Maybe cos I joined the bandwagon when SC2 came out and wasn't a fan of SC BW.
More like GOM dumped MLG for the younger hotter IPL and is now watching MLG get married to the hottest girl in Korea, jealosy will ensue.
Yeah, sure some people might not like it, but this is in MLG's best interest. And GOM screwed them over before, sure a lot of us don't like KeSPA but they are a lot more professional than GOM.
I would not call KeSPA more professional than GOM. ._.
They've both made some pretty boneheaded moves in the past.
KeSPA has done a lot of controversial things but they don't leave their partners to hang out to dry (See: Naniwa and Code S Seed). MLG looked like idiots and assholes for promoting something that GOM claimed wasn't true (Code S seed), and came out with a professional response that didn't slaughter GOM. Regardless of what side of the argument you fall on regarding whether Naniwa deserved the seed after the probe rush, GOM's response claiming that no Code S seed was just paperthin and ridiculous.
I am just hpoing for the best.. With how KeSPA is/has been, this could be really shitty, but I really hope this is going to work out. I guess we won't see until it happens...
On May 11 2012 15:30 Bart wrote: ooo I feel a bit sad for Gom. It's like MLG is the dude and they dumped Gom for the hotter and more "exprienced" Kespa. Maybe cos I joined the bandwagon when SC2 came out and wasn't a fan of SC BW.
More like GOM dumped MLG for the younger hotter IPL and is now watching MLG get married to the hottest girl in Korea, jealosy will ensue.
Yeah, sure some people might not like it, but this is in MLG's best interest. And GOM screwed them over before, sure a lot of us don't like KeSPA but they are a lot more professional than GOM.
I would not call KeSPA more professional than GOM. ._.
They've both made some pretty boneheaded moves in the past.
KeSPA has done a lot of controversial things but they don't leave their partners to hang out to dry (See: Naniwa and Code S Seed). MLG looked like idiots and assholes for promoting something that GOM claimed wasn't true (Code S seed), and came out with a professional response that didn't slaughter GOM. Regardless of what side of the argument you fall on regarding whether Naniwa deserved the seed after the probe rush, GOM's response claiming that no Code S seed was just paperthin and ridiculous.
On May 11 2012 15:30 Bart wrote: ooo I feel a bit sad for Gom. It's like MLG is the dude and they dumped Gom for the hotter and more "exprienced" Kespa. Maybe cos I joined the bandwagon when SC2 came out and wasn't a fan of SC BW.
More like GOM dumped MLG for the younger hotter IPL and is now watching MLG get married to the hottest girl in Korea, jealosy will ensue.
Yeah, sure some people might not like it, but this is in MLG's best interest. And GOM screwed them over before, sure a lot of us don't like KeSPA but they are a lot more professional than GOM.
I would not call KeSPA more professional than GOM. ._.
They've both made some pretty boneheaded moves in the past.
KeSPA has done a lot of controversial things but they don't leave their partners to hang out to dry (See: Naniwa and Code S Seed). MLG looked like idiots and assholes for promoting something that GOM claimed wasn't true (Code S seed), and came out with a professional response that didn't slaughter GOM. Regardless of what side of the argument you fall on regarding whether Naniwa deserved the seed after the probe rush, GOM's response claiming that no Code S seed was just paperthin and ridiculous.
That's why I said they both have made boneheaded moves. Normally you would see me defending KeSPA on this section of the forums, but to call one better than the other? No sir. I never play favourites.
On May 11 2012 15:30 Bart wrote: ooo I feel a bit sad for Gom. It's like MLG is the dude and they dumped Gom for the hotter and more "exprienced" Kespa. Maybe cos I joined the bandwagon when SC2 came out and wasn't a fan of SC BW.
More like GOM dumped MLG for the younger hotter IPL and is now watching MLG get married to the hottest girl in Korea, jealosy will ensue.
Yeah, sure some people might not like it, but this is in MLG's best interest. And GOM screwed them over before, sure a lot of us don't like KeSPA but they are a lot more professional than GOM.
I would not call KeSPA more professional than GOM. ._.
They've both made some pretty boneheaded moves in the past.
KeSPA has done a lot of controversial things but they don't leave their partners to hang out to dry (See: Naniwa and Code S Seed). MLG looked like idiots and assholes for promoting something that GOM claimed wasn't true (Code S seed), and came out with a professional response that didn't slaughter GOM. Regardless of what side of the argument you fall on regarding whether Naniwa deserved the seed after the probe rush, GOM's response claiming that no Code S seed was just paperthin and ridiculous.
KESPA and GOM both make an extremely professional product with zero down time, delay, extremely minimal technical difficulties which are broadcast on television with an appropriate level of professionalism.
All that stuff is leaps and bounds ahead of IPL, Dreamhack, MLG and IEM's which are plagued by delays, sound/video issues, down time and other stuff which would be absurd to see on television.
On May 11 2012 15:30 Bart wrote: ooo I feel a bit sad for Gom. It's like MLG is the dude and they dumped Gom for the hotter and more "exprienced" Kespa. Maybe cos I joined the bandwagon when SC2 came out and wasn't a fan of SC BW.
More like GOM dumped MLG for the younger hotter IPL and is now watching MLG get married to the hottest girl in Korea, jealosy will ensue.
Yeah, sure some people might not like it, but this is in MLG's best interest. And GOM screwed them over before, sure a lot of us don't like KeSPA but they are a lot more professional than GOM.
I would not call KeSPA more professional than GOM. ._.
They've both made some pretty boneheaded moves in the past.
KeSPA has done a lot of controversial things but they don't leave their partners to hang out to dry (See: Naniwa and Code S Seed). MLG looked like idiots and assholes for promoting something that GOM claimed wasn't true (Code S seed), and came out with a professional response that didn't slaughter GOM. Regardless of what side of the argument you fall on regarding whether Naniwa deserved the seed after the probe rush, GOM's response claiming that no Code S seed was just paperthin and ridiculous.
Have they ever had any partners?...
KeSPA have and tried to sell licensing fees to tournaments outside of Korea for their players to compete. That's where Blizzard stepped in and said, "Hey, what the hell you guys think you're doing selling licensing/TV rights?"
._.
That's when Blizzard really started to take notice of exactly what KeSPA was doing.
On May 11 2012 21:30 Linwelin wrote: If there is exclusivity, then fuck you MLG. Europeans are pretty much screwed since they won't realistically be able to meet their favourite BW players if they ONLY play at MLG and in Korea... If there isn't exclusivity, then it's pretty good news
Europeans weren't exactly filled with options for meeting our favourite current Koreans. Most of the biggest names (MVP, MMA, DRG, MKP, Nestea, MC) aren't in Europe that often with the exception of MC. Not to mention it's hardly cheap for most Europeans to travel to Germany or Sweden for the weekend and I don't think many people were going to these events anyway who weren't from the country they were in.
Well MMA and Nestea were in Paris like a week ago, remember? Yea koreans are more often in the US but that's not a particularly good argument. Also, traveling to Sweden for a Dreamhack or to Germany for IEM is way easier (and cheaper) than going to the US
You're complaining about this deal denying you something that you never really had in the first place.
If you were regularly shelling out 1000 Euros to go to Sweden from Ireland to see MC then fair enough, this deal might lose you something but I really doubt you or many other people were.
USA costs more than Sweden and Germany sure, but the USA is also a much better place to visit especially over Sweden.
It doesn't cost 1000 Euros to travel from Ireland to sweden, rather 50-60 euros (excl. accommodation)
What? Why would you exclude accomodation. There's no way you're going to get from Ireland to Sweden and back (including taxi/train to the airport in Ireland/Stockholm) pay for three day's accomodation, plus a pass for Dreamhack and food while you are there for less than 600 euros, and that's if you stay somewhere really shitty and eat crappy food and don't see any of Stockholm while you're there.
The Plane tickets also cost way, way more than you said.
For example are charging 241 euros for a return trip from Dublin to Stockholm.
You sir are a master at finding overpriced air tickets.
Feel free to find cheap return flights from Dublin to Stockholm for the dates of the next Dreamhack.
64 Euros (46 to stockholm from dublin and 14.7 euro back from stockholm to dublin) you'll arrive two days prior to DH though since the flight of the date of 15th was sold out.
Ryanair.com
Your sir, are dumb. Why would you want to find accomodation in Stockholm for Dreamhack Summer (Which is on the west coast of Sweden, the other side from stockholm). If you're not that picky you could just sleep in the sleeping halls at Dreamhack Summer. And accomodation isn't really that expensive in Jönköping, I could easily make do the travel from Dublin to Jönköping and even not pass the 200 euro mark. Please stop talking shit about things you dont know. T_T
“We are pleased to join with MLG to bring the best players in the world to the international stage,” said Lee Young Hee, President of KeSPA
Anyone else find this a bit arrogant? Even if it's true, which is debateable of late... I would love to see Thorzain, Naniwa, or any other "foreigner" mop the floor with Kespa players. (a man can dream can't he?)
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
but WCG is a Korean based company. I don't think it counts.
On May 11 2012 21:30 Linwelin wrote: If there is exclusivity, then fuck you MLG. Europeans are pretty much screwed since they won't realistically be able to meet their favourite BW players if they ONLY play at MLG and in Korea... If there isn't exclusivity, then it's pretty good news
Europeans weren't exactly filled with options for meeting our favourite current Koreans. Most of the biggest names (MVP, MMA, DRG, MKP, Nestea, MC) aren't in Europe that often with the exception of MC. Not to mention it's hardly cheap for most Europeans to travel to Germany or Sweden for the weekend and I don't think many people were going to these events anyway who weren't from the country they were in.
Well MMA and Nestea were in Paris like a week ago, remember? Yea koreans are more often in the US but that's not a particularly good argument. Also, traveling to Sweden for a Dreamhack or to Germany for IEM is way easier (and cheaper) than going to the US
You're complaining about this deal denying you something that you never really had in the first place.
If you were regularly shelling out 1000 Euros to go to Sweden from Ireland to see MC then fair enough, this deal might lose you something but I really doubt you or many other people were.
USA costs more than Sweden and Germany sure, but the USA is also a much better place to visit especially over Sweden.
It doesn't cost 1000 Euros to travel from Ireland to sweden, rather 50-60 euros (excl. accommodation)
What? Why would you exclude accomodation. There's no way you're going to get from Ireland to Sweden and back (including taxi/train to the airport in Ireland/Stockholm) pay for three day's accomodation, plus a pass for Dreamhack and food while you are there for less than 600 euros, and that's if you stay somewhere really shitty and eat crappy food and don't see any of Stockholm while you're there.
The Plane tickets also cost way, way more than you said.
For example are charging 241 euros for a return trip from Dublin to Stockholm.
You sir are a master at finding overpriced air tickets.
Feel free to find cheap return flights from Dublin to Stockholm for the dates of the next Dreamhack.
64 Euros (46 to stockholm from dublin and 14.7 euro back from stockholm to dublin) you'll arrive two days prior to DH though since the flight of the date of 15th was sold out.
Ryanair.com
Your sir, are dumb. Why would you want to find accomodation in Stockholm for Dreamhack Summer (Which is on the west coast of Sweden, the other side from stockholm). If you're not that picky you could just sleep in the sleeping halls at Dreamhack Summer. And accomodation isn't really that expensive in Jönköping, I could easily make do the travel from Dublin to Jönköping and even not pass the 200 euro mark. Please stop talking shit about things you dont know. T_T
The post of someone who's never paid for a holiday in his life.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
but WCG is a Korean based company. I don't think it counts.
Do you want a list of events that KeSPA players competed in? o-O
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
but WCG is a Korean based company. I don't think it counts.
Do you want a list of events that KeSPA players competed in? o-O
It's documented.
KeSPA(+all korean) progamers were "banned" from non-korean competition because they were too good (TLS1, 2).
On May 11 2012 21:30 Linwelin wrote: If there is exclusivity, then fuck you MLG. Europeans are pretty much screwed since they won't realistically be able to meet their favourite BW players if they ONLY play at MLG and in Korea... If there isn't exclusivity, then it's pretty good news
Europeans weren't exactly filled with options for meeting our favourite current Koreans. Most of the biggest names (MVP, MMA, DRG, MKP, Nestea, MC) aren't in Europe that often with the exception of MC. Not to mention it's hardly cheap for most Europeans to travel to Germany or Sweden for the weekend and I don't think many people were going to these events anyway who weren't from the country they were in.
Well MMA and Nestea were in Paris like a week ago, remember? Yea koreans are more often in the US but that's not a particularly good argument. Also, traveling to Sweden for a Dreamhack or to Germany for IEM is way easier (and cheaper) than going to the US
You're complaining about this deal denying you something that you never really had in the first place.
If you were regularly shelling out 1000 Euros to go to Sweden from Ireland to see MC then fair enough, this deal might lose you something but I really doubt you or many other people were.
USA costs more than Sweden and Germany sure, but the USA is also a much better place to visit especially over Sweden.
It doesn't cost 1000 Euros to travel from Ireland to sweden, rather 50-60 euros (excl. accommodation)
What? Why would you exclude accomodation. There's no way you're going to get from Ireland to Sweden and back (including taxi/train to the airport in Ireland/Stockholm) pay for three day's accomodation, plus a pass for Dreamhack and food while you are there for less than 600 euros, and that's if you stay somewhere really shitty and eat crappy food and don't see any of Stockholm while you're there.
The Plane tickets also cost way, way more than you said.
For example are charging 241 euros for a return trip from Dublin to Stockholm.
You sir are a master at finding overpriced air tickets.
Feel free to find cheap return flights from Dublin to Stockholm for the dates of the next Dreamhack.
64 Euros (46 to stockholm from dublin and 14.7 euro back from stockholm to dublin) you'll arrive two days prior to DH though since the flight of the date of 15th was sold out.
Ryanair.com
Your sir, are dumb. Why would you want to find accomodation in Stockholm for Dreamhack Summer (Which is on the west coast of Sweden, the other side from stockholm). If you're not that picky you could just sleep in the sleeping halls at Dreamhack Summer. And accomodation isn't really that expensive in Jönköping, I could easily make do the travel from Dublin to Jönköping and even not pass the 200 euro mark. Please stop talking shit about things you dont know. T_T
The post of someone who's never paid for a holiday in his life.
I've probably traveled arround Europe more than you ever will in your life, you clearly dont know SHIT about travelling, especially since you look up flights on SAS in the first place. -.-
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
but WCG is a Korean based company. I don't think it counts.
Do you want a list of events that KeSPA players competed in? o-O
It's documented.
KeSPA(+all korean) progamers were "banned" from non-korean competition because they were too good (TLS1, 2).
TSL isn't the only non-Korean competition out there bud, but nice try and that's because it was about amateurs.
This is indeed a good news. The only concern is 'exclusive', being that the current BW guys will only compete in KeSpa leagues and MLG.... If this is the case, it's really hard to tell if this is actually a good news...
So Kespa players will feature in MLG's. Does this mean Kespa tournaments will feature foreigner seeds from MLG Tournaments, or is it just a one-way thing?
I know they want BW players at their event, and the players will have limited time, but the way going about it that isn't exclusivity. That makes them look bad and focused on profits much more than growing the scene. They should be attending their tourneys due to them offering the best service, price pool etc. not because they contractually have to!
On May 11 2012 15:30 Bart wrote: ooo I feel a bit sad for Gom. It's like MLG is the dude and they dumped Gom for the hotter and more "exprienced" Kespa. Maybe cos I joined the bandwagon when SC2 came out and wasn't a fan of SC BW.
More like GOM dumped MLG for the younger hotter IPL and is now watching MLG get married to the hottest girl in Korea, jealosy will ensue.
Yeah, sure some people might not like it, but this is in MLG's best interest. And GOM screwed them over before, sure a lot of us don't like KeSPA but they are a lot more professional than GOM.
I would not call KeSPA more professional than GOM. ._.
They've both made some pretty boneheaded moves in the past.
KeSPA has done a lot of controversial things but they don't leave their partners to hang out to dry (See: Naniwa and Code S Seed). MLG looked like idiots and assholes for promoting something that GOM claimed wasn't true (Code S seed), and came out with a professional response that didn't slaughter GOM. Regardless of what side of the argument you fall on regarding whether Naniwa deserved the seed after the probe rush, GOM's response claiming that no Code S seed was just paperthin and ridiculous.
MLG promoting something that GOM claimed wasn't true and GOM is unprofessional? If you think GOM lied about it then come out and say so. GOM has made decisions in the past in that I don't agree with, some decisions that makes me want to throw fruits at Mr. Chae, but they have never lied about it, unlike Kespa. Maybe GOM just haven't been around long enough and they are actually just like Kespa, but until then, I will believe them as long as there's no evidence to the contrary.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
They obviously meant they haven't been to a US based tournament. WCG isn't US based.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
They obviously meant they haven't been to a US based tournament. WCG isn't US based.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
They obviously meant they haven't been to a US based tournament. WCG isn't US based.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
They obviously meant they haven't been to a US based tournament. WCG isn't US based.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
They obviously meant they haven't been to a US based tournament. WCG isn't US based.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
They obviously meant they haven't been to a US based tournament. WCG isn't US based.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
They obviously meant they haven't been to a US based tournament. WCG isn't US based.
SO dammn nice that the whole Kespa vs the west bullshit finally is over! the SC community )includes Starcraft1, Broodwar and Starcraft2 is finally at peace!!
You realize the small word "exclusive"? Kespa players may not play at any other foreign events. This is bad.
SO dammn nice that the whole Kespa vs the west bullshit finally is over! the SC community )includes Starcraft1, Broodwar and Starcraft2 is finally at peace!!
You realize the small word "exclusive"? Kespa players may not play at any other foreign events. This is bad.
It's not bad. Maybe a little unfortunate for other events, but I don't see this as anything bad.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
haha fail
wcg is so obvious, but im pretty sure there have been other tournaments as well. for example blizzcon and some wc3 tournaments
SO dammn nice that the whole Kespa vs the west bullshit finally is over! the SC community )includes Starcraft1, Broodwar and Starcraft2 is finally at peace!!
You realize the small word "exclusive"? Kespa players may not play at any other foreign events. This is bad.
It's not bad. Maybe a little unfortunate for other events, but I don't see this as anything bad.
I wouldn't want them flying out everywhere anyway, I will always view the regular league based competition as the pinnacle, not some one-off weekend event that has the player grind through 50 games
SO dammn nice that the whole Kespa vs the west bullshit finally is over! the SC community )includes Starcraft1, Broodwar and Starcraft2 is finally at peace!!
You realize the small word "exclusive"? Kespa players may not play at any other foreign events. This is bad.
It's not bad. Maybe a little unfortunate for other events, but I don't see this as anything bad.
Who is going to invest in new tournaments if the best players are forbidden from taking part?
SO dammn nice that the whole Kespa vs the west bullshit finally is over! the SC community )includes Starcraft1, Broodwar and Starcraft2 is finally at peace!!
You realize the small word "exclusive"? Kespa players may not play at any other foreign events. This is bad.
It's not bad. Maybe a little unfortunate for other events, but I don't see this as anything bad.
I wouldn't want them flying out everywhere anyway, I will always view the regular league based competition as the pinnacle, not some one-off weekend event that has the player grind through 50 games
That possibly includes GSL too. So not only one-off weekend events.
The way it seems to be playing out, KeSPA players will only be allowed to participate in MLG events. These MLG events will of course be PPV, so the only way to see KeSPA players playing is to fork out cash. MLG will of course share the profits they make off of this with KeSPA.
Makes sense for the companies in short term, bad for the SC2 scene in general tho.
Smart move by MLG to position themselves as the premier Starcraft 2 tournament in the western world. It's basically forcing every other tournament organizer to come begging to be a "partner" of MLG in order to get KeSPA players to their tournaments. And if you're on bad terms with MLG, you're fucked in that regard.
This gives MLG a uniqe of power they will undoubtedly capitalize on.
I'm very interested to see how this will turn out in the end, for MLG/KeSPA as well as for the scene as a whole.
It might work out well or it might end in a "war" between several brands.
Let's just hope it works out well. Not much more we can do right now.
This was expected, didn't think it would take them this long to announce though. In any case, I don't know what to think of this right now. It might be good, might be bad... better just to see how it plays out.
Wow, I can't believe that this is happening in less than one month. This sounds absolutely awesome--maybe this year or next we'll be able to watch the finals of a KeSPA tournament at an MLG event, just like GSL at IPL4.
SO dammn nice that the whole Kespa vs the west bullshit finally is over! the SC community )includes Starcraft1, Broodwar and Starcraft2 is finally at peace!!
You realize the small word "exclusive"? Kespa players may not play at any other foreign events. This is bad.
It's not bad. Maybe a little unfortunate for other events, but I don't see this as anything bad.
I wouldn't want them flying out everywhere anyway, I will always view the regular league based competition as the pinnacle, not some one-off weekend event that has the player grind through 50 games
That possibly includes GSL too. So not only one-off weekend events.
SO dammn nice that the whole Kespa vs the west bullshit finally is over! the SC community )includes Starcraft1, Broodwar and Starcraft2 is finally at peace!!
You realize the small word "exclusive"? Kespa players may not play at any other foreign events. This is bad.
It's not bad. Maybe a little unfortunate for other events, but I don't see this as anything bad.
I wouldn't want them flying out everywhere anyway, I will always view the regular league based competition as the pinnacle, not some one-off weekend event that has the player grind through 50 games
That possibly includes GSL too. So not only one-off weekend events.
Doubt GSL will exist after October.
I can almost 100% assure you GSL will still be alive after October
On the plus side, this is a leap forward as far as the opportunities, the quality of the competition and entertainment value. On the other end, for us consumers, this basically means we're gonna be paying a lot more for content.
As an SC2 fan these news makes me feel kinda just like "meh"... If this means that there won't be a transition where the current SC2 pro'sgoes head to head with the BW pro's in game. But rather tourny organizers fighting over who gets the most popular league where those 2 camps never really play each other, I'll most likely lose interest in the whole scene.
My excitement for SC2 has been built up on the players and tournaments that's already in place. I've really been looking forward to seeing these BW legends go up against the SC2 champs. But if they just stick to different leagues and this Kespa/MLG partnership takes over the scene with the old one losing relevance, i dont know if I'll find that interesting enough to follow.
I don't know why but i really don't like MLG at all. The moves that happens, PPV bullshit, the tournament style, nothing. Flash and others are BW legends, no doubt, but not SC2 legends (yet). Mvp, Nestea and others are. So, i think for me it's only hype that will be depressed after ppl watch the games and see veteran getting destroyed, or maybe not, because foreigners are not in the current korean lvl right now.
On May 11 2012 23:11 Rorschach wrote: Horrible news.
The way it seems to be playing out, KeSPA players will only be allowed to participate in MLG events. These MLG events will of course be PPV, so the only way to see KeSPA players playing is to fork out cash. MLG will of course share the profits they make off of this with KeSPA.
Makes sense for the companies in short term, bad for the SC2 scene in general tho.
MLG Championship events always have been free, nothing has changed. Tune in during Anaheim and watch, it will be free.
I honestly had never been to r/Starcraft before clicking this link. ROFL what a sewer...
Looking at some threads here on TL, I don't really see that much difference apart from more moderation here on TL :-)
Indeed although it doesn't have those extra pompous "you don't have a bright future here" posts... Am I alone in thinking back seat moderators should get warnings...
As someone who just played casually and didn't follow pro broodwar I have no idea what the implications of this are. Is with the exception of MLG turning into a parallel leagues situation with entirely different player pools? Wording seems a bit vauge, are we going to see KeSPA players in the open bracket or is there a total separation thing going on?
On May 11 2012 23:11 Rorschach wrote: Horrible news.
The way it seems to be playing out, KeSPA players will only be allowed to participate in MLG events. These MLG events will of course be PPV, so the only way to see KeSPA players playing is to fork out cash. MLG will of course share the profits they make off of this with KeSPA.
Makes sense for the companies in short term, bad for the SC2 scene in general tho.
MLG Championship events always have been free, nothing has changed. Tune in during Anaheim and watch, it will be free.
But what i see here is that there is going to be an exclusive tournament for the Kespa guys. And probably this stream wont be free. Also the HotS stream won't be free either i suppose.
So yeah for the first time i will see myself thinking about buying this stuff.
SO dammn nice that the whole Kespa vs the west bullshit finally is over! the SC community )includes Starcraft1, Broodwar and Starcraft2 is finally at peace!!
You realize the small word "exclusive"? Kespa players may not play at any other foreign events. This is bad.
It's not bad. Maybe a little unfortunate for other events, but I don't see this as anything bad.
I wouldn't want them flying out everywhere anyway, I will always view the regular league based competition as the pinnacle, not some one-off weekend event that has the player grind through 50 games
That possibly includes GSL too. So not only one-off weekend events.
Doubt GSL will exist after October.
I can almost 100% assure you GSL will still be alive after October
How would that be possible? I am under the impression that KeSPA has far more viewers than GSL?
On May 11 2012 23:11 Rorschach wrote: Horrible news.
The way it seems to be playing out, KeSPA players will only be allowed to participate in MLG events. These MLG events will of course be PPV, so the only way to see KeSPA players playing is to fork out cash. MLG will of course share the profits they make off of this with KeSPA.
Makes sense for the companies in short term, bad for the SC2 scene in general tho.
MLG Championship events always have been free, nothing has changed. Tune in during Anaheim and watch, it will be free.
Lets be honest. If Sundance could make every MLG a PPV he would, and thats where SC2 is heading. When you've locked up players that everyone wants to see, and can't see anywhere else... viewers will be coughing up money.
On May 11 2012 23:11 Rorschach wrote: Horrible news.
The way it seems to be playing out, KeSPA players will only be allowed to participate in MLG events. These MLG events will of course be PPV, so the only way to see KeSPA players playing is to fork out cash. MLG will of course share the profits they make off of this with KeSPA.
Makes sense for the companies in short term, bad for the SC2 scene in general tho.
MLG Championship events always have been free, nothing has changed. Tune in during Anaheim and watch, it will be free.
You should be a bit careful saying this unless you are sure that all the BW Pro's games at Anaheim will be on the free stream and not behind the paywalled beta(black/white) streams. Is that what you are saying?
Edit: Just saw this tweet from Sundance. No PPV for BW Pro games. We shall see.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see what this has to do with the GSL. Granted, it's horrible that foreign tournaments that aren't MLG are being hung out to dry (except the tournament which is MLG's partner) but at the press conference a few weeks ago, KeSPA essentially said they wanted their player playing against and with the very best of the GSL players, and they seemed open to running an over-arching joint league or to allowing their players to play in the GSL.
Make no mistake: BW players are popular, but you're alienating a lot of viewers if you run a tournament with no GSL players. There are a lot of people, both foreigners and Koreans, that have followed Sc2 from day 1, and while they may also have been fans of BW, they're intimately interested in the play of MMA, MVP, MC, DRG, and the like. I don't think KeSPA can just pretend the last two years didn't happen; the players are too good and successful for that.
On May 11 2012 23:44 Shiori wrote: Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see what this has to do with the GSL. Granted, it's horrible that foreign tournaments that aren't MLG are being hung out to dry (except the tournament which is MLG's partner) but at the press conference a few weeks ago, KeSPA essentially said they wanted their player playing against and with the very best of the GSL players, and they seemed open to running an over-arching joint league or to allowing their players to play in the GSL.
Make no mistake: BW players are popular, but you're alienating a lot of viewers if you run a tournament with no GSL players. There are a lot of people, both foreigners and Koreans, that have followed Sc2 from day 1, and while they may also have been fans of BW, they're intimately interested in the play of MMA, MVP, MC, DRG, and the like. I don't think KeSPA can just pretend the last two years didn't happen; the players are too good and successful for that.
Better ignoring the current scene till their players catchup than ruining all the work theyve put into making their player's stars by having them get thrashed.
KeSPA essentially said they wanted their player playing against and with the very best of the GSL players
Haha, exactly.
Why would a current top GSL player stay in the GSL, when KeSPA has access to a considerably larger audience?
The current KeSPA aces have until October to get their SC2 game together, at which point all of the top pros from all leagues will make a mad dash towards KeSPA.
If MLG didn't make this deal, for which I imagine MLG paid dearly, it could have been left behind.
Well, I'm one of these new school SC player who have never play a second of BW. So all these BW player are alien to me as I've never heard of them in my life. I don't really have interest in watching them at this point.
SO dammn nice that the whole Kespa vs the west bullshit finally is over! the SC community )includes Starcraft1, Broodwar and Starcraft2 is finally at peace!!
You realize the small word "exclusive"? Kespa players may not play at any other foreign events. This is bad.
It's not bad. Maybe a little unfortunate for other events, but I don't see this as anything bad.
I wouldn't want them flying out everywhere anyway, I will always view the regular league based competition as the pinnacle, not some one-off weekend event that has the player grind through 50 games
That possibly includes GSL too. So not only one-off weekend events.
Doubt GSL will exist after October.
I can almost 100% assure you GSL will still be alive after October
How would that be possible? I am under the impression that KeSPA has far more viewers than GSL?
Because GSL is (unlike every single NA/EU event) making a profit right now.
On May 11 2012 23:11 Rorschach wrote: Horrible news.
The way it seems to be playing out, KeSPA players will only be allowed to participate in MLG events. These MLG events will of course be PPV, so the only way to see KeSPA players playing is to fork out cash. MLG will of course share the profits they make off of this with KeSPA.
Makes sense for the companies in short term, bad for the SC2 scene in general tho.
MLG Championship events always have been free, nothing has changed. Tune in during Anaheim and watch, it will be free.
But what i see here is that there is going to be an exclusive tournament for the Kespa guys. And probably this stream wont be free. Also the HotS stream won't be free either i suppose.
So yeah for the first time i will see myself thinking about buying this stuff.
The exclusive tournament is because the KESPA players will kind of suck at first and watching them lose to randoms would kill the hype a lot.
SO dammn nice that the whole Kespa vs the west bullshit finally is over! the SC community )includes Starcraft1, Broodwar and Starcraft2 is finally at peace!!
You realize the small word "exclusive"? Kespa players may not play at any other foreign events. This is bad.
It's not bad. Maybe a little unfortunate for other events, but I don't see this as anything bad.
I wouldn't want them flying out everywhere anyway, I will always view the regular league based competition as the pinnacle, not some one-off weekend event that has the player grind through 50 games
That possibly includes GSL too. So not only one-off weekend events.
Doubt GSL will exist after October.
I can almost 100% assure you GSL will still be alive after October
How would that be possible? I am under the impression that KeSPA has far more viewers than GSL?
Because GSL is (unlike every single NA/EU event) making a profit right now.
I've mixed feelings. First the SC2/BW PL which is a bad thing for the players and now this, which is also IMO a bad thing for the players of KESPA if it prevents them from taking part at valuable foreign tournaments for multiple years.
SO dammn nice that the whole Kespa vs the west bullshit finally is over! the SC community )includes Starcraft1, Broodwar and Starcraft2 is finally at peace!!
You realize the small word "exclusive"? Kespa players may not play at any other foreign events. This is bad.
It's not bad. Maybe a little unfortunate for other events, but I don't see this as anything bad.
I wouldn't want them flying out everywhere anyway, I will always view the regular league based competition as the pinnacle, not some one-off weekend event that has the player grind through 50 games
That possibly includes GSL too. So not only one-off weekend events.
Doubt GSL will exist after October.
I can almost 100% assure you GSL will still be alive after October
How would that be possible? I am under the impression that KeSPA has far more viewers than GSL?
Because GSL is (unlike every single NA/EU event) making a profit right now.
All this says is that some KESPA players will play at MLG. Maybe it is the pessimist in me but I wonder if this will have any of the SC1 superstars playing at the first event or if it will be just lower levels that have been focused on SC2 longer.
I'm 50/50 on it. In one way I think they want to show their best playing, but those best are still splitting their time with SC1. So do they want them coming out and probably losing? Do they want to hurt their image?
I think they will send out lower players from their teams until the SC1 guys have enough practice in to know they will place high against anyone. But who knows, maybe they have all been practicing SC2 more than SC1. I'm just not getting my hopes up on who we will see there until they announce who actually be there.
On May 11 2012 23:11 Rorschach wrote: Horrible news.
The way it seems to be playing out, KeSPA players will only be allowed to participate in MLG events. These MLG events will of course be PPV, so the only way to see KeSPA players playing is to fork out cash. MLG will of course share the profits they make off of this with KeSPA.
Makes sense for the companies in short term, bad for the SC2 scene in general tho.
MLG Championship events always have been free, nothing has changed. Tune in during Anaheim and watch, it will be free.
But what i see here is that there is going to be an exclusive tournament for the Kespa guys. And probably this stream wont be free. Also the HotS stream won't be free either i suppose.
So yeah for the first time i will see myself thinking about buying this stuff.
The exclusive tournament is because the KESPA players will kind of suck at first and watching them lose to randoms would kill the hype a lot.
I know that. All i'm stating is that we don't know yet but i think this tournament won't be free on the stream.
This sounds really hard to implement actually. It is right dab in the middle of OSL and PL season. I do know that SKT has threatened to withhold players due to favoring tournaments over others (threatened withholding from the group selection to prepare for PL finals before). Hopefully we won't see that drama this time.
I honestly had never been to r/Starcraft before clicking this link. ROFL what a sewer...
Looking at some threads here on TL, I don't really see that much difference apart from more moderation here on TL :-)
Lol is there any moderation on reddit? It's a gigantic difference.
Nope, there pretty much isn't. But that is not necessarily a bad thing. People who use reddit go all out on their opinions without fear of repercussions. Yes, many are vulgar and insulting, but that is the only difference between reddit and TL. There's bandwagoning on both portals, same with mob-justice, propaganda and insults. Just look at how many fanclubs and controversial threads have a mod-edit telling the people to not insult others. :-)
On May 12 2012 00:07 archonOOid wrote: so there will be now kespa players in DH, IPL and IEM? I want a free market not a monopoly.
As if Kespa would allow their players to play in those tournaments. You have to give them a reason, And as of now MLG is the only one capable of doing that.
On May 12 2012 00:04 HappyTimePANDA wrote: All this says is that some KESPA players will play at MLG. Maybe it is the pessimist in me but I wonder if this will have any of the SC1 superstars playing at the first event or if it will be just lower levels that have been focused on SC2 longer.
I'm 50/50 on it. In one way I think they want to show their best playing, but those best are still splitting their time with SC1. So do they want them coming out and probably losing? Do they want to hurt their image?
I think they will send out lower players from their teams until the SC1 guys have enough practice in to know they will place high against anyone. But who knows, maybe they have all been practicing SC2 more than SC1. I'm just not getting my hopes up on who we will see there until they announce who actually be there.
Sundance tweeted that he's looking foward to meeting Flash at Anaheim so there definitely will be some A-leaguers in attendence.
On May 12 2012 00:04 HappyTimePANDA wrote: All this says is that some KESPA players will play at MLG. Maybe it is the pessimist in me but I wonder if this will have any of the SC1 superstars playing at the first event or if it will be just lower levels that have been focused on SC2 longer.
I'm 50/50 on it. In one way I think they want to show their best playing, but those best are still splitting their time with SC1. So do they want them coming out and probably losing? Do they want to hurt their image?
I think they will send out lower players from their teams until the SC1 guys have enough practice in to know they will place high against anyone. But who knows, maybe they have all been practicing SC2 more than SC1. I'm just not getting my hopes up on who we will see there until they announce who actually be there.
Sundance tweeted that he's looking foward to meeting Flash at Anaheim so there definitely will be some A-leaguers in attendence.
Nice, I didn't know that. (Still won't personally care until Jaedong comes lol)
I honestly had never been to r/Starcraft before clicking this link. ROFL what a sewer...
Looking at some threads here on TL, I don't really see that much difference apart from more moderation here on TL :-)
Lol is there any moderation on reddit? It's a gigantic difference.
Nope, there pretty much isn't. But that is not necessarily a bad thing. People who use reddit go all out on their opinions without fear of repercussions. Yes, many are vulgar and insulting, but that is the only difference between reddit and TL. There's bandwagoning on both portals, same with mob-justice, propaganda and insults. Just look at how many fanclubs and controversial threads have a mod-edit telling the people to not insult others. :-)
The best thing about Reddit is that you get a total gauge of what the community thinks because there's no restrictions at all on people posting their opinions.
I really hope though that all the BW pros get crushed like there is no tomorrow. Not because of all those BW elitists, no not at all. Rather because it would really kind of certify the hard work all of the real sc2 progamers like DRG, Nestea, MKP and all the others have put in during the last two years and it would show, that you cannot play the game a few weeks and suddenly be the king of the world. Even the gods will have to work very hard.
Dont like the exclusivity. And Sundance being purposedly vague is most likely a bad sign. There just no reason at all to be vague if everything was fine (from a fan point of view, that is, BW players to all event).
"No commenst on exclusivity". "Trying to make it work with DH, cant say about the rest". "We will work with all our partners". Last one totally sound like: you better become our bitch ("partner") or you wont see any BW players ("or we wont work with you").
That would have been "We're sorry for the confusion caused by us mentioning it being 'exclusive' in our announcement. We have no intention to limit BW players from going to any events outside our own." if thats what they wanted.
But, i guess its business. No hard feelings really, just disapointment as an SC2 fan,
So happy I just barfed. I wish I was a pro sc2 player even more now, seeing as I might get the chance to play against legendary BW players. So sick, can't wait for june 9th. I graduate on the seventh, so I'll have nothing to do except watch SC2 all weekend.
so sick, FLASH AT MLG PLZZZZ! Dunno if anyone asked this already (didn't read through a 30 page thread due to revision) but will these exhibitions be casted and stuff on stream? And will they be on the free streams or the PPV ones? Good news though, and i'm glad they haven't thrown them straight into deathtrap of the open bracket or anything like that, would make things less fun if a Flash or a Bisu got rolled by someone who wasn't spectacular, its good to keep it separate for now, and it builds more fan intrigue for when the top BW pros start to meet the top SC2 players. Excited for more details!
On May 12 2012 00:21 Kuni wrote: I really hope though that all the BW pros get crushed like there is no tomorrow. Not because of all those BW elitists, no not at all. Rather because it would really kind of certify the hard work all of the real sc2 progamers like DRG, Nestea, MKP and all the others have put in during the last two years and it would show, that you cannot play the game a few weeks and suddenly be the king of the world. Even the gods will have to work very hard.
That is the funny thing. They will not play against anyone that played the game over the past 2 years. All they will do is "exclusive tournament" between each other. That is at MLG. Other than that BW pros will play again against each other in PL and OSL... Even their coaches said that they want to play vs GSL players "only when they are ready" which means if KeSPA teams think that their players suck, they will never ever play against GSL players. I guess they don't want to break their "God aura". About the exclusive thing... The plan is simple. MLG locks KeSPA players for themselves and their partners(read:everyone that pays). The next step is to make every single MLG event PPV and that will most likely happen next year. It's pretty sad that MLG is trying to create monopoly for themselves, but I guess that is how they roll.
On May 12 2012 00:21 Kuni wrote: I really hope though that all the BW pros get crushed like there is no tomorrow. Not because of all those BW elitists, no not at all. Rather because it would really kind of certify the hard work all of the real sc2 progamers like DRG, Nestea, MKP and all the others have put in during the last two years and it would show, that you cannot play the game a few weeks and suddenly be the king of the world. Even the gods will have to work very hard.
Heh, the gods have worked much harder their whole lives.
On May 12 2012 00:21 Kuni wrote: I really hope though that all the BW pros get crushed like there is no tomorrow. Not because of all those BW elitists, no not at all. Rather because it would really kind of certify the hard work all of the real sc2 progamers like DRG, Nestea, MKP and all the others have put in during the last two years and it would show, that you cannot play the game a few weeks and suddenly be the king of the world. Even the gods will have to work very hard.
Heh, the gods have worked much harder their whole lives.
Yeah, I don't get what the other guy was trying to get at either.
Those guys got to where they're currently at for a reason. They know the definition of hard work.
On May 12 2012 00:21 Kuni wrote: I really hope though that all the BW pros get crushed like there is no tomorrow. Not because of all those BW elitists, no not at all. Rather because it would really kind of certify the hard work all of the real sc2 progamers like DRG, Nestea, MKP and all the others have put in during the last two years and it would show, that you cannot play the game a few weeks and suddenly be the king of the world. Even the gods will have to work very hard.
Heh, the gods have worked much harder their whole lives.
Yeah, I don't get what the other guy was trying to get at either.
Those guys got to where they're currently at for a reason. They know the definition of hard work.
They have been working hard their entire lives, but for a different game.
People do understand that all the kespa players are under contract to kespa. So without some form of deal like this you would see no kespa players outside of kespa tournaments.
On May 12 2012 00:21 Kuni wrote: I really hope though that all the BW pros get crushed like there is no tomorrow. Not because of all those BW elitists, no not at all. Rather because it would really kind of certify the hard work all of the real sc2 progamers like DRG, Nestea, MKP and all the others have put in during the last two years and it would show, that you cannot play the game a few weeks and suddenly be the king of the world. Even the gods will have to work very hard.
Heh, the gods have worked much harder their whole lives.
Yeah, I don't get what the other guy was trying to get at either.
Those guys got to where they're currently at for a reason. They know the definition of hard work.
They have been working hard their entire lives, but for a different game.
I feel like SC2 diehards kind of hope the BW pros fail because they feel it will validate their game. If they succeed, it doesn't necessarily mean BW is a superior/harder game, and vice-versa if they don't do well immediately.
I don't think anyone is saying Flash will dominate in a few weeks. I expect in a few months we will start seeing some decent results, and within a year they will be near the top if they put in the same work ethic. Flash won't immediately claim bonjwa status, but I expect it will happen eventually.
On May 11 2012 23:11 Rorschach wrote: Horrible news.
The way it seems to be playing out, KeSPA players will only be allowed to participate in MLG events. These MLG events will of course be PPV, so the only way to see KeSPA players playing is to fork out cash. MLG will of course share the profits they make off of this with KeSPA.
Makes sense for the companies in short term, bad for the SC2 scene in general tho.
MLG Championship events always have been free, nothing has changed. Tune in during Anaheim and watch, it will be free.
But what i see here is that there is going to be an exclusive tournament for the Kespa guys. And probably this stream wont be free. Also the HotS stream won't be free either i suppose.
So yeah for the first time i will see myself thinking about buying this stuff.
HOTS stream and KESPA players playing in their mini tournament will be free.
On May 12 2012 00:21 Kuni wrote: I really hope though that all the BW pros get crushed like there is no tomorrow. Not because of all those BW elitists, no not at all. Rather because it would really kind of certify the hard work all of the real sc2 progamers like DRG, Nestea, MKP and all the others have put in during the last two years and it would show, that you cannot play the game a few weeks and suddenly be the king of the world. Even the gods will have to work very hard.
Heh, the gods have worked much harder their whole lives.
Yeah, I don't get what the other guy was trying to get at either.
Those guys got to where they're currently at for a reason. They know the definition of hard work.
They have been working hard their entire lives, but for a different game.
How will the fans react to their play? When current pros play below their normal standards LR threads always fill with "omfg this platinum league play horrible to watch". Pretty safe to say coming games are way below anything sc2 fans are used to.
On May 12 2012 00:21 Kuni wrote: I really hope though that all the BW pros get crushed like there is no tomorrow. Not because of all those BW elitists, no not at all. Rather because it would really kind of certify the hard work all of the real sc2 progamers like DRG, Nestea, MKP and all the others have put in during the last two years and it would show, that you cannot play the game a few weeks and suddenly be the king of the world. Even the gods will have to work very hard.
Heh, the gods have worked much harder their whole lives.
Yeah, I don't get what the other guy was trying to get at either.
Those guys got to where they're currently at for a reason. They know the definition of hard work.
They have been working hard their entire lives, but for a different game.
I feel like SC2 diehards kind of hope the BW pros fail because they feel it will validate their game. If they succeed, it doesn't necessarily mean BW is a superior/harder game, and vice-versa if they don't do well immediately.
I don't think anyone is saying Flash will dominate in a few weeks. I expect in a few months we will start seeing some decent results, and within a year they will be near the top if they put in the same work ethic. Flash won't immediately claim bonjwa status, but I expect it will happen eventually.
I don't think hoping that they fail is what most sc2 fans wish for. Eventually Flash and the others should come out on top. He said in an interview it will probably take 2+ years, but that surely was an exaggeration to keep things cool. Sc2 doesn't have to be validated. The fact that it's so popular all around the world except for Korea speaks for itself. However, although many sc2 pros were only 2nd grade broodwar players, I feel it would be kind of sad if 2 years of work was completely in vain and Flash, JD and the others were able to crush them immediately. I think it's in the Gods nature to eventually come out on top :D
On May 12 2012 01:03 Xalorian wrote: Exclusivity is shit. That's the only thing I have to say. I hate MLG more and more each day...
God, when I think that I actually liked the event a couple of months ago.
All kespa players are contracted to kespa. So they can only play in kespa autherized tournaments. No deal like this means no players outsode of kespa ever. Happened in BW would of happened agaon without this. People need to look at the big picture and also not forget the past so easily.
On May 12 2012 01:05 Jarree wrote: How will the fans react to their play? When current pros play below their normal standards LR threads always fill with "omfg this platinum league play horrible to watch". Pretty safe to say coming games are way below anything sc2 fans are used to.
Personally, I'm going to "go easy" on them. That is, since I know they still must practice BW and SC2, I'm not expecting amazing games. Especially when one considers that although they may have been causally playing for a while, they are barely going to begin structured practice. Expecting amazing, high level games and being upset when they don't deliver doesn't make sense.
On May 12 2012 01:03 Xalorian wrote: Exclusivity is shit. That's the only thing I have to say. I hate MLG more and more each day...
God, when I think that I actually liked the event a couple of months ago.
All kespa players are contracted to kespa. So they can only play in kespa autherized tournaments. No deal like this means no players outsode of kespa ever. Happened in BW would of happened agaon without this. People need to look at the big picture and also not forget the past so easily.
I wonder if that really was the case when making this "deal"
World: Somebody set up us the bomb :-( World: We get signal!! World: Main screen turn on!! Kespa: How are you gentlemen? *silence* Mlg. *raisehands* What you say? Kespa: All your base are belong to us!!!! *looksinthecrowd"
Yeah everyone saw this coming now, but honestly I really liked the pros in BW staying in BW, they were just so amazing to watch play that game...time to cash in your chips now if you're a foreigner pro gamer in SC2, #dayjobs.
I see a lack of underweare being thrown is this thread. Hell it was even more hype in the thorzian thread. I think people view this in the wrong time perspective. Yes we want the best games ever and we want them now. But there is a reason players like Flash and other BW pros play for the team they play for. And i believe it's money. Look at football (soccer for you americanos) stars that have risen and faded the last 10 years. They all stop being football players at some Point and become bissnessmen. David Backhem was a really good player but did some odd things at the end of he'a time as a fotball player like switching teams a lot amongst other things. And it can be argued that it was for the money.
What I'm getting at is the fact that the BW pros played BW becus they make money from it and it's what their boss tells them to do. And if this exusitivity is the only way for them to get exposure then so be it. We should all support this and hope for a day when a team outside of KeSPA can buy players from them.
If this is exclusive, meaning that KeSPA players will not be allowed to compete at other foreign events, then it's very damaging for the foreign scene. They last thing we need is impressive tournaments like IEM and Dreamhack (the latter of which is definately on par with MLG imo) getting marginalised due to the lack of "top talent" (if the BW players ever become top talent) able to compete at them.
I hope it's not the case, but if it is then a huge "shame on MLG" from me. Sure they're a business, but naively I actually thought they gave a damn about the foreign scene...
Kespa already getting a good grip on the most visible market for their licensed players. I agree with someone before that we can expect this not to be on free stream. Milk the cow when you can.
If there is indeed imposed a split of the players into Kespa/MLG/IEG controlled and "others", then that is no good news for Starcraft2 community as a whole. The big tournaments will simply drop SC2 in the mid term (hello LoL).
PS: International e-Sports Group (IEG) was mentioned in the Kespa memo, but not the MLG one - what does that mean? Would be a good first step if the MLG gets broadcast by IEG in Korea, since well, korean streaming and broadcasting for SC2 is at this point totally lackluster outside of GOM.
On May 12 2012 01:03 Xalorian wrote: Exclusivity is shit. That's the only thing I have to say. I hate MLG more and more each day...
God, when I think that I actually liked the event a couple of months ago.
I hope you are trolling, but if you aren't then what a stupid attitude. They have to bring them over eventually and gradually. We don't want to lose everything to LoL do we?
Bleh, you are making it like an end of the world. Truth is, those players wont be ready to compete on high level at least for another half year, maybe even more (I would say probably until HotS comes out). Or would you like to see Bisu/Flash/Jaedong/Stork etc to go to Dreamhack Summer and be stomped by guys like Cytoplasm/Bischu/Lalush? (Nothing against them, just used them as an example of average EU pro). Newsflash, Kespa wont allow something like this. We are lucky we will be even able to see them outside of Proleague. (and btw, if OGN really opens the first SC2 OSL completely, we probably wont see them even there...) And when HotS comes out, who knows what may change until then....
Holy crap, I already thought this was going to be an amazing tournament because of both the tourny and HotS preview. Now we get BW players playing too?!?!!
On May 11 2012 15:09 Amlitzer wrote: I think I just threw up a little.
~_~ shouldn't BW bitching get banned for talking shit about sc2? when sc2 people get banned on a daily basis in the BW forums for stupid ass comments like this?
OT: stoked to see how they are coming along (the BW pros converting)
I'm actually fairly worried about this annoucement because of one word.
Exclusive
How the hell are they going to spread esports in the entire western world if it's limited to a US centric tournament. Is Europe going to get to see Kespa players on its soil, because if not then thats horseshit, not to insult the NA player base but theres a world of depth in talent right now between the two continents.
And now for a moment of me being pedantic
New York – May 11, 2012 –Major League Gaming (MLG), the world’s largest competitive video game league, and the Korean eSports Association (KeSPA),
What does this actually mean? I'm pretty sure dreamhack has them beat on sheer numbers of attendees. And I'm pretty sure BW Proleague had them beat in money terms and viewer numbers. What unit of measurement are you using for "largest"?
it's not as if they want to leave much anyway, they have proleague and starleague weekly. travelling 10 hours to a marathon weekend tournament (which is more or less unnecessary prize hunting considering their salaries) is harmful to their practice and league success.
I really like this announcement, talk about nerd chills. I wish I could attend that Anaheim event now even though I live on the opposite side of the country.
Also, I do not entirely understand the frustration or disappointment about it. People object to the fact that it's an exclusive MLG-KeSPA deal that therefore means no KeSPA players at IPL or NASL? Or that MLG is turning a cold shoulder to GOM or something? Please lay out the downsides more concisely.
On May 12 2012 02:38 Asymmetric wrote: I'm actually fairly worried about this annoucement because of one word.
Exclusive
How the hell are they going to spread esports in the entire western world if it's limited to a US centric tournament. Is Europe going to get to see Kespa players on its soil, because if not then thats horseshit, not to insult the NA player base but theres a world of depth in talent right now between the two continents.
New York – May 11, 2012 –Major League Gaming (MLG), the world’s largest competitive video game league, and the Korean eSports Association (KeSPA),
What does this actually mean? I'm pretty sure dreamhack has them beat on sheer numbers of attendees. And I'm pretty sure BW Proleague had them beat in money terms and viewer numbers. What unit of measurement are you using for "largest"?
How are people mad about this at all? Like yeah I'm a huge bw fan but lets be honest here, I'm excited about this to see all my favourite players come play sc2.
And they are coming to the States! Next MLG I'm definitely going to go and get Jaedong's autograph!
I have no idea how anyone is actually saying this is a bad thing, other than the people who don't want the players to switch over at all.
"The partnership will kick off at the MLG Spring Championship in Anaheim, CA on Saturday, June 9 at 9pm PT, when KeSPA Pro players will compete in a StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty exhibition tournament." So it will be Kespa players only in this tourney? Anyways.. huge news!!!
On May 12 2012 03:00 WhiteWOR wrote: "The partnership will kick off at the MLG Spring Championship in Anaheim, CA on Saturday, June 9 at 9pm PT, when KeSPA Pro players will compete in a StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty exhibition tournament." So it will be Kespa players only in this tourney? Anyways.. huge news!!!
Yeah BW players only I'd assume. They wouldn't want to match them up against Pros when they're still adjusting.
Also since it was last post on the page and I doubt it was seen...
On May 12 2012 02:38 Asymmetric wrote: I'm actually fairly worried about this annoucement because of one word.
Exclusive
How the hell are they going to spread esports in the entire western world if it's limited to a US centric tournament. Is Europe going to get to see Kespa players on its soil, because if not then thats horseshit, not to insult the NA player base but theres a world of depth in talent right now between the two continents.
And now for a moment of me being pedantic
New York – May 11, 2012 –Major League Gaming (MLG), the world’s largest competitive video game league, and the Korean eSports Association (KeSPA),
What does this actually mean? I'm pretty sure dreamhack has them beat on sheer numbers of attendees. And I'm pretty sure BW Proleague had them beat in money terms and viewer numbers. What unit of measurement are you using for "largest"?
The exclusivity between MLG and KESPA could be for scheduling reasons. I believe MLG and GOM cited schedule conflicts as a reason for the split (or that is what they chose to say publicly). Brood War is noted for the quality of play that comes from top players who have time to prepare for matches. I believe on some level KESPA relises that the quality of their product will be hampered if top pros are running all over the world playing in weekend tournaments. By limiting KESPA players to only MLG tournaments, they can better tailor their tournaments to coincide with MLG schedules (most likely vice versa). A long-term, semi set schedule will better allow the Brood War pros to transition over to SCII, and give them the best chance to show the best games (i.e. provide the best product for viewers).
I doubt this will happen, but if the transition from Brood War to SCII shows us games where Flash and Stork get ROFL stomped by players like Clide, AND the quality of Proleague matches go to shit, it will be bad news for the growth of SCII. I believe this deal is an attempt by KESPA (and MLG) to protect the greatest and unkown quantity to hit E-sports since SCII: Brood War switching SCII.
or
KESPA and MLG could be run by anti-christs who have no passion for gaming and actively want to ruin e-sports
On May 12 2012 00:21 Kuni wrote: I really hope though that all the BW pros get crushed like there is no tomorrow. Not because of all those BW elitists, no not at all. Rather because it would really kind of certify the hard work all of the real sc2 progamers like DRG, Nestea, MKP and all the others have put in during the last two years and it would show, that you cannot play the game a few weeks and suddenly be the king of the world. Even the gods will have to work very hard.
Heh, the gods have worked much harder their whole lives.
Yeah, I don't get what the other guy was trying to get at either.
Those guys got to where they're currently at for a reason. They know the definition of hard work.
They have been working hard their entire lives, but for a different game.
That doesn't mean they don't know what it takes. -_-
On May 11 2012 15:09 Amlitzer wrote: I think I just threw up a little.
~_~ shouldn't BW bitching get banned for talking shit about sc2? when sc2 people get banned on a daily basis in the BW forums for stupid ass comments like this?
OT: stoked to see how they are coming along (the BW pros converting)
Half the reason they get banned is because they use silly one-liners like that, use unfunny memes, and the biggest one being uninformed/ignorant comments.
Sure, I'm missing some but there are many reasons.
Anyway, I don't see a really big crime in showing displeasure for such announcement because there seems to be several people doing it.
The idea of "exclusivity" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Even though the initial participation of KeSPA players is just an exhibition and the full details of this deal are vague, I don't see a need for this at all. Only allowing KeSPA players to play in MLG events only benefits MLG and seems extremely selfish. There are so many tournaments worldwide, it would be detrimental to non-MLG events by not having BW heavyweights play in the future. As of right now, I'm not even that excited about watching the KeSPA players. Having watched a replay of Firebathero, my expectations for the quality of the games for this exhibition are low. But SC2 is progressing so quickly, BW pros are going to be better sooner than later. Locking out the players from other tournaments for years is going to kill the legitimacy of the other tournaments when they're skill level eventually improves. It's like MLG is positioning themselves to squeeze out their competition by making this deal. The standard MLG answer regarding the success of other tournaments benefiting MLG by providing competition and not wanting others to fail, seems more hollow and disingenuous now.
Admittedly I am not a big fan of MLG, there are more fun tournaments to watch, like Homestory, Dreamhack, TSL and even the recent Iron Squid tournament(finals was amazing). Maybe I'm nuts and this won't play out like what I imagine or maybe it will, but I don't trust MLG with the responsibility of running the US SC2 scene, given the turbulent winter they had with the mass firings, sudden introduction of a pay-per-view only event and questionable spending of $50million when incredibly smaller tournaments like TSL and Homestory Cup(size and live vs online arguments aside) are run so much smoother on a fraction of the cost. Even the fact that they are holding this exhibition concurrently with Proleague exhibits haphazard planning and poor decision making.
On May 12 2012 03:25 black_ICE wrote: The idea of "exclusivity" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Even though the initial participation of KeSPA players is just an exhibition and the full details of this deal are vague, I don't see a need for this at all. Only allowing KeSPA players to play in MLG events only benefits MLG and seems extremely selfish. There are so many tournaments worldwide, it would be detrimental to non-MLG events by not having BW heavyweights play in the future. As of right now, I'm not even that excited about watching the KeSPA players. Having watched a replay of Firebathero, my expectations for the quality of the games for this exhibition are low. But SC2 is progressing so quickly, BW pros are going to be better sooner than later. Locking out the players from other tournaments for years is going to kill the legitimacy of the other tournaments when they're skill level eventually improves. It's like MLG is positioning themselves to squeeze out their competition by making this deal. The standard MLG answer regarding the success of other tournaments benefiting MLG by providing competition and not wanting others to fail, seems more hollow and disingenuous now.
Admittedly I am not a big fan of MLG, there are more fun tournaments to watch, like Homestory, Dreamhack, TSL and even the recent Iron Squid tournament(finals was amazing). Maybe I'm nuts and this won't play out like what I imagine or maybe it will, but I don't trust MLG with the responsibility of running the US SC2 scene, given the turbulent winter they had with the mass firings, sudden introduction of a pay-per-view only event and questionable spending of $50million when incredibly smaller tournaments like TSL and Homestory Cup(size and live vs online arguments aside) are run so much smoother on a fraction of the cost. Even the fact that they are holding this exhibition concurrently with Proleague exhibits haphazard planning and poor decision making.
of course smaller events like TSL and HSC run smoother. they are smaller! they deal with like 32 players. mlg has 256 players for sc2 alone while also running other tournaments at the same time. not to mention, tsl us all replays until the finals and hsc is a relaxed event among friends. comparing how those tournaments run to a massive mlg, which has over 700 participants is silly
Admittedly I am not a big fan of MLG, there are more fun tournaments to watch, like Homestory, Dreamhack, TSL and even the recent Iron Squid tournament(finals was amazing). Maybe I'm nuts and this won't play out like what I imagine or maybe it will, but I don't trust MLG with the responsibility of running the US SC2 scene, given the turbulent winter they had with the mass firings, sudden introduction of a pay-per-view only event and questionable spending of $50million when incredibly smaller tournaments like TSL and Homestory Cup(size and live vs online arguments aside) are run so much smoother on a fraction of the cost. Even the fact that they are holding this exhibition concurrently with Proleague exhibits haphazard planning and poor decision making.
of course smaller events like TSL and HSC run smoother. they are smaller! they deal with like 32 players. mlg has 256 players for sc2 alone while also running other tournaments at the same time. not to mention, tsl us all replays until the finals and hsc is a relaxed event among friends. comparing how those tournaments run to a massive mlg, which has over 700 participants is silly
Homestory Cup and TSL have a budget in the thousands of dollars. MLG is funded by millions. My point is HSC and TSL are much better value for the money spent compared to an MLG. At the end of the day, it's me sitting in front of the computer watching SC2 and I have a better viewing experience watching TSL compared to an MLG.
Plus if the amount of SC2 participants is disrupting the running of the SC2 tournament itself plus the other tournaments during an MLG, seems like that would be a problem in organization on MLG's part. Being that MLG are touting themselves as the longest running, most experienced video gaming tournament in the country you would think the quality would be exceptional.
I guess a better example would be Dreamhack compared to MLG. Awesome events and they do it mainly from a volunteer effort. Other tournaments seem to be able to pull off amazing events without drama or controversy on a smaller budget. I think that is mostly due to the fact that they do it for the love of the game, not to make a profit.
MLG going PPV is fine -- every tournament can do what they want and the viewers can always decide to watch other events. But if MLG is able to leverage their current lead to get exclusive rights to the top players, that's not about offering an alternative, that's about creating an environment where competition doesn't exist.
It's been SO amazing seeing new new events. Lone Star was a real surprise - run by volunteer students! Iron Squid was shockingly awesome and so very, very french. HomeStory has a wonderful atmosphere. We've also got TotalBiscuit experimenting with monobattle tournaments and tip jars funding great online tournaments too. So much innovation and community building everywhere.
So on SotG they just announced there's gonna be 8 progamers, one from each team, but most likely not ACE, because they aren't allowed out of the air forces.
Thus I edit down my list of hoping: ACE: - T8: Jaedong STX: Calm Stars: Soulkey CJ: Effort KT: Flash Khan: Stork SKT: Bisu, Fantasy
edit: They also confirmed it's gonna be single elimination format.
So what did Sundance say in response to the exclusivity deal? I heard the end of it, he just seemed to be saying it's just business, this is how business works. Was there more before that?
Basically if any other western leagues want to have Kespa players, they have to go through Sundance as a middleman. Kind of a strange arrangement, I wonder if MLG would collect some sort of fee from the western tournament for such an agreement?
Mhh, all this talk about exclusivity does not really worry me for other tournaments but more for the KeSPA-run ones. With so much high caliber competition with massive prizepools they will probably have a hard time getting new talent in if their players are restricted in their tournament opportunities. In the current state of SC2 professional competition KeSPAs approach seems to me a bit anachronistic.
On May 12 2012 07:03 Doodsmack wrote: Basically if any other western leagues want to have Kespa players, they have to go through Sundance as a middleman. Kind of a strange arrangement, I wonder if MLG would collect some sort of fee from the western tournament for such an agreement?
On May 12 2012 06:58 JackDT wrote: So what did Sundance say in response to the exclusivity deal? I heard the end of it, he just seemed to be saying it's just business, this is how business works. Was there more before that?
He talked about being the gatekeeper of SC2 basically.
He said he could see himself talking to other tournaments about having kespa players or not.
Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
What a terrible idea. I guess it's time to capitalize but this is the sort of thing that kills off a growing movement/scene in it's early stages. Immediately kespa starts with the monopoly bullshit again and MLG don't hesitate to jump on? Sad. :/ Won't be watching their events again.
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
Blizzard did a good job with Kespa. Kespa had an iron grip on the BW scene in Korea but Blizzard saw that and stopped it before SC2 could be the next victim of Kespa. Now after long negotiations with Kespa, Blizzard has given them an iron grip globally over SC2.
On May 12 2012 06:58 JackDT wrote: So what did Sundance say in response to the exclusivity deal? I heard the end of it, he just seemed to be saying it's just business, this is how business works. Was there more before that?
He talked about being the gatekeeper of SC2 basically.
He said he could see himself talking to other tournaments about having kespa players or not.
let me predict ragemode interpretation of this "See. Simple. Sundance takes money from VCs, hands whatever remains of the pile that wasnt wasted on large prize pools for poorly followed games/sweet new york city offices and hands it over to KESPA to buy exclusive rights. Then turns around to the other tournaments and says pay me 2x what I paid for these rights or starve while Kespa teams buy up all the really good SC2 players with their much larger budgets and sponsorships. Sundance becomes the king of e-sports in the West"
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
Good point but I don't think the Koreans will stop coming to MLGs anytime soon. Although it would send a powerful message to keep things open as if MLG doesn't have the Koreans (read GSL/GOM) they would have no SC2 at least anything that anyone would tune in to.....
This is the last thing we need is a war between MLG/Kespa and GSL/IPL. Competition for the market is great as that improves the product but this asshat move to keep Kespa players exclusive is horrible for the scene and I will not support it.....
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
On May 12 2012 06:58 JackDT wrote: So what did Sundance say in response to the exclusivity deal? I heard the end of it, he just seemed to be saying it's just business, this is how business works. Was there more before that?
He talked about being the gatekeeper of SC2 basically.
He said he could see himself talking to other tournaments about having kespa players or not.
let me predict ragemode interpretation of this "See. Simple. Sundance takes money from VCs, hands whatever remains of the pile that wasnt wasted on large prize pools for poorly followed games/sweet new york city offices and hands it over to KESPA to buy exclusive rights. Then turns around to the other tournaments and says pay me 2x what I paid for these rights or starve while Kespa teams buy up all the really good SC2 players with their much larger budgets and sponsorships. Sundance becomes the king of e-sports in the West"
Their PPV model was simply something foreshadowing what is to come. Before we know it ALL high level events will be nickel and diming us. Talk about cornering the market and then squeezing the consumer for every last drop.
Will be so pissed if Kespa buys up the current SC2 teams, I just can't picture IM, Slayers, MVP all being bought out.... GOM has worked so hard to make SC2 what its become the last few years and has created a different caliber of play. Nothing more cool than having current SC2 Korean pros going to IPL, DH, etc....
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague? It obviously wouldn't be good for current players HOWEVER consider the implications of what this "exclusive" partnership brings to the table. If they kill off the competition I guarantee you every event will become PPV and the quality will degrade as there is no competitors fostering a healthy market.... The amazing high level play we've seen the past year is because GOM has supported the foreign scene with its player pool. Think about how many korean pros have traveled to play all weekend and return on Monday to play in their GSL matches/groups. Just having these pros showing up at every large international tournament has been amazing. Also they've seeded lots of players into code S and allowed ppl to compete in Code A without being on a Korean team. I don't foresee Kespa/MLG being as generous with their teams and scheduling.
On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote: This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill. It would be an exclusive arrangement between MLG/Kespa and the new Proleagues players. On the the other hand Gom has allowed the teams to do operate however they want when it comes to attending foreign tournaments. The only thing keeping Korean teams from participating would be the individual teams financial situation in which case many organizations have offered to sponsor korean attendants because it draws a crowd.
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague?
But they are not intending to do something like that, this thread is getting ridiculous. Sundance said numerous times today, that they are working with Dreamhack and will be working with more foreign organizers. Part of this arrangment is also an exchange program with Kespa, so I guess good foreigners will be able to play in Kespa events, also they will be able to stay in Kespa prohouses.
Also Kespa said they will be working with GOM, GOM has said Kespa progamers are welcome to tryout GSL whenever they feel ready. Yeah, Proleague and GSTL will probably stay the same for now, but who knows what happens in a year or two? OGN already declared, they want to do first SC2 OSL open to anyone, be it GOM, foreigners, amateurs, or Kespa. What of that is saying "exclusive for MLG/Kespa" only?
On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote: This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:41 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill.
Where and when has this been confirmed to be what is happening here? It hasn't...people are just overreacting.
edit: guy above me has his head on straight, at least.
On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote: This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:41 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill. It would be an exclusive arrangement between MLG/Kespa and the new Proleagues players. On the the other hand Gom has allowed the teams to do operate however they want when it comes to attending foreign tournaments. The only thing keeping Korean teams from participating would be the individual teams financial situation in which case many organizations have offered to sponsor korean attendants because it draws a crowd.
You are missing a sort of important point in all of this though. If you assume that the players will eventually play in GSL as well as whatever OGN comes up with as well as MLG than the days that they have to spare are probably limited.
The exclusivity doesn't seem like the biggest deal to me. BW Pros (and all Koreans) are already going to be playing in Proleague, OSL, and likely GSL soon. Most of them aren't going to have a bunch of time fly to foreign events.
It seems like it is going to hurt the less known players though. Think of the players we learned of because they did well at some random foreign event. I don't see this "killing SC2" though as some people are saying...
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
MLG is having 11 live events this year with their Arenas. Their prize pool is "paltry" compared to GSL? Really? GSL gives out $153,965 over the course of a season. In roughly the same amount of time, MLG gives out $113,300. So paltry in comparison...
And IPL, DH, Iron Squid have equal or higher prize pools. DH's prize pool at Stockholm? $22,400. At DH Summer it will be $28,738. If DH keeps their Open tournaments with the same prize pool as Stockholm, which is likely, and Summer has the same prizepool as winter, they will give out $124,676, which is close to the amount as one season of MLG (aka Spring Season 2 arenas + championship event).
IPL has a great $100,000 prize pool. But that big tournament is probably only running twice a year. In the long run, MLG is still paying out more money.
NASL is in the same boat as IPL. Huge $100,000 prize pool, but they run about 2 events a year.
IronSquid had a $25,000 prize pool. And no one knows when the next event will be.
You seem rather misinformed about how much MLG is paying out. Its around $450,000 this year for sc2. Now why would GSL players miss out on this? To send MLG a message that wouldn't even make sense?
On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote: This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:41 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill.
Where and when has this been confirmed to be what is happening here? It hasn't...people are just overreacting.
edit: guy above me has his head on straight, at least.
Incontrol: "So just for clarity's sake, as it stands right now, if there were no conversations we would only see KESPA players in the KESPA league and MLG because that is the exclusive agreement?"
Sundance: "Yep"
Incontrol: "And what you're talking about is the potential in the future for you, Sundance DiGiovanni, to talk to who you choose to see if these players want to go to other places, if KESPA agrees with that?
Sundance: "Not just who I choose, anybody can come to me and ask can we do this, can we do that outside of South Korea. I'll entertain it and I'll make the introductions. I mean again, there's certain people we'll be more inclined to work with than others, but again, that's what you get in business. We can all pow along until the health of the business is on the line, and my point goes beyond tournaments to teams. I want to be able to go to KESPA and say, you know here's Evil Geniuses and here's Liquid and I want to get them plugged into what you [KESPA] are doing."
I am slightly concerned about the possibility of two distinct groups of players forming, where KESPA and MLG have one group and the GSL/IPL have the other group and the groups do not mix or play in the same tournaments. This would resemble Professional Darts which effectively has two rival World Championships and two different pools of players. I am worried that this announcement of an alliance between KESPA and MLG is the beginning of such a split in the SC2 scene.
I don't know much at all about the BroodWar Scene and Kespa but InControl's comments on Kespa make me worried about the Foreign Scene in SC2. There is a thriving foreign scene in SC2 and I do not want KESPA coming in and trying to take advantage of the Foreign Scene to reap unearned benefits, and to do so at the expense of Foreign players who have helped build up interest in the SC2 scene.
On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote: This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:41 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill.
Where and when has this been confirmed to be what is happening here? It hasn't...people are just overreacting.
edit: guy above me has his head on straight, at least.
Incontrol: "So just for clarity's sake, as it stands right now, if there were no conversations we would only see KESPA players in the KESPA league and MLG because that is the exclusive agreement?"
Sundance: "Yep"
Incontrol: "And what you're talking about is the potential in the future for you, Sundance DiGiovanni, to talk to who you choose to see if these players want to go to other places, if KESPA agrees with that?
Sundance: "Not just who I choose, anybody can come to me and ask can we do this, can we do that outside of South Korea. I'll entertain it and I'll make the introductions. I mean again, there's certain people we'll be more inclined to work with than others, but again, that's what you get in business. We can all pow along until the health of the business is on the line, and my point goes beyond tournaments to teams. I want to be able to go to KESPA and say, you know here's Evil Geniuses and here's Liquid and I want to get them plugged into what you [KESPA] are doing."
What in that statement says that KeSPA will never send their players to other events? Everyone is just acting like there is never going to be that possibility, ever, which is clearly not the case.
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague? It obviously wouldn't be good for current players HOWEVER consider the implications of what this "exclusive" partnership brings to the table. If they kill off the competition I guarantee you every event will become PPV and the quality will degrade as there is no competitors fostering a healthy market.... The amazing high level play we've seen the past year is because GOM has supported the foreign scene with its player pool. Think about how many korean pros have traveled to play all weekend and return on Monday to play in their GSL matches/groups. Just having these pros showing up at every large international tournament has been amazing. Also they've seeded lots of players into code S and allowed ppl to compete in Code A without being on a Korean team. I don't foresee Kespa/MLG being as generous with their teams and scheduling.
Well you clearly know everything and have talked exclusively with Kespa and MLG representatives. I guess in two years everyone will be paying their cable provider $60 for MLG Championship PPV. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were so connected to everyone and knew this deal that well.
On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote: This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:41 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill.
Where and when has this been confirmed to be what is happening here? It hasn't...people are just overreacting.
edit: guy above me has his head on straight, at least.
Incontrol: "So just for clarity's sake, as it stands right now, if there were no conversations we would only see KESPA players in the KESPA league and MLG because that is the exclusive agreement?"
Sundance: "Yep"
Incontrol: "And what you're talking about is the potential in the future for you, Sundance DiGiovanni, to talk to who you choose to see if these players want to go to other places, if KESPA agrees with that?
Sundance: "Not just who I choose, anybody can come to me and ask can we do this, can we do that outside of South Korea. I'll entertain it and I'll make the introductions. I mean again, there's certain people we'll be more inclined to work with than others, but again, that's what you get in business. We can all pow along until the health of the business is on the line, and my point goes beyond tournaments to teams. I want to be able to go to KESPA and say, you know here's Evil Geniuses and here's Liquid and I want to get them plugged into what you [KESPA] are doing."
What in that statement says that KeSPA will never send their players to other events? Everyone is just acting like there is never going to be that possibility, ever, which is clearly not the case.
It means you have to go through SD to get BW players.
On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote: This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:41 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill.
Where and when has this been confirmed to be what is happening here? It hasn't...people are just overreacting.
edit: guy above me has his head on straight, at least.
Incontrol: "So just for clarity's sake, as it stands right now, if there were no conversations we would only see KESPA players in the KESPA league and MLG because that is the exclusive agreement?"
Sundance: "Yep"
Incontrol: "And what you're talking about is the potential in the future for you, Sundance DiGiovanni, to talk to who you choose to see if these players want to go to other places, if KESPA agrees with that?
Sundance: "Not just who I choose, anybody can come to me and ask can we do this, can we do that outside of South Korea. I'll entertain it and I'll make the introductions. I mean again, there's certain people we'll be more inclined to work with than others, but again, that's what you get in business. We can all pow along until the health of the business is on the line, and my point goes beyond tournaments to teams. I want to be able to go to KESPA and say, you know here's Evil Geniuses and here's Liquid and I want to get them plugged into what you [KESPA] are doing."
What in that statement says that KeSPA will never send their players to other events? Everyone is just acting like there is never going to be that possibility, ever, which is clearly not the case.
It means you have to go through SD to get BW players.
So this equates into KeSPA players never going to any event other than MLG?
On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote: This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:41 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote: [quote]
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill.
Where and when has this been confirmed to be what is happening here? It hasn't...people are just overreacting.
edit: guy above me has his head on straight, at least.
Incontrol: "So just for clarity's sake, as it stands right now, if there were no conversations we would only see KESPA players in the KESPA league and MLG because that is the exclusive agreement?"
Sundance: "Yep"
Incontrol: "And what you're talking about is the potential in the future for you, Sundance DiGiovanni, to talk to who you choose to see if these players want to go to other places, if KESPA agrees with that?
Sundance: "Not just who I choose, anybody can come to me and ask can we do this, can we do that outside of South Korea. I'll entertain it and I'll make the introductions. I mean again, there's certain people we'll be more inclined to work with than others, but again, that's what you get in business. We can all pow along until the health of the business is on the line, and my point goes beyond tournaments to teams. I want to be able to go to KESPA and say, you know here's Evil Geniuses and here's Liquid and I want to get them plugged into what you [KESPA] are doing."
What in that statement says that KeSPA will never send their players to other events? Everyone is just acting like there is never going to be that possibility, ever, which is clearly not the case.
It means you have to go through SD to get BW players.
So this equates into KeSPA players never going to any event other than MLG?
no... it means you have to make an agreement with MLG to get them. You were going to have to make an agreement with Kespa anyways. Sundance has already reached out to DreamHack about DH having Kespa players.
On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote: This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:41 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote: [quote]
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill.
Where and when has this been confirmed to be what is happening here? It hasn't...people are just overreacting.
edit: guy above me has his head on straight, at least.
Incontrol: "So just for clarity's sake, as it stands right now, if there were no conversations we would only see KESPA players in the KESPA league and MLG because that is the exclusive agreement?"
Sundance: "Yep"
Incontrol: "And what you're talking about is the potential in the future for you, Sundance DiGiovanni, to talk to who you choose to see if these players want to go to other places, if KESPA agrees with that?
Sundance: "Not just who I choose, anybody can come to me and ask can we do this, can we do that outside of South Korea. I'll entertain it and I'll make the introductions. I mean again, there's certain people we'll be more inclined to work with than others, but again, that's what you get in business. We can all pow along until the health of the business is on the line, and my point goes beyond tournaments to teams. I want to be able to go to KESPA and say, you know here's Evil Geniuses and here's Liquid and I want to get them plugged into what you [KESPA] are doing."
What in that statement says that KeSPA will never send their players to other events? Everyone is just acting like there is never going to be that possibility, ever, which is clearly not the case.
It means you have to go through SD to get BW players.
So this equates into KeSPA players never going to any event other than MLG?
It means you have to arrange with KeSPA no matter what, and additionally with MLG.
Sure, every player won't, and has not been, and is not able to attend each and every event. But so far it has been under the discretion of the team and the player to decide. GSL didn't step in to tell what to do and what not to do.
BW players are naturally under KeSPA control, which is a fact that has down- and upsides, but ultimately out of our reach. So yeah, without MLG you would have to negotiate with KeSPA anyway- but won't have to pay a middle-man to do it.
On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote: This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:41 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:27 Dosey wrote: [quote]
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill.
Where and when has this been confirmed to be what is happening here? It hasn't...people are just overreacting.
edit: guy above me has his head on straight, at least.
Incontrol: "So just for clarity's sake, as it stands right now, if there were no conversations we would only see KESPA players in the KESPA league and MLG because that is the exclusive agreement?"
Sundance: "Yep"
Incontrol: "And what you're talking about is the potential in the future for you, Sundance DiGiovanni, to talk to who you choose to see if these players want to go to other places, if KESPA agrees with that?
Sundance: "Not just who I choose, anybody can come to me and ask can we do this, can we do that outside of South Korea. I'll entertain it and I'll make the introductions. I mean again, there's certain people we'll be more inclined to work with than others, but again, that's what you get in business. We can all pow along until the health of the business is on the line, and my point goes beyond tournaments to teams. I want to be able to go to KESPA and say, you know here's Evil Geniuses and here's Liquid and I want to get them plugged into what you [KESPA] are doing."
What in that statement says that KeSPA will never send their players to other events? Everyone is just acting like there is never going to be that possibility, ever, which is clearly not the case.
It means you have to go through SD to get BW players.
So this equates into KeSPA players never going to any event other than MLG?
They wouldn't even compete outside of korea in the first place if MLG didn't have any exclusive deals. MLG just gave them a reason to compete outside. and now the community is blasting them for it.
this is just the start. Exclusive agreements and such are just the beginning of the split in the scene. With the scene growth and money involved and the estimations of the value of the scene in the coming years, we will see some drastic changes when it comes to trying to control the revenue. My tinfoil hat fits me well
On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote: This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:41 Dosey wrote:
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote: [quote] What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill.
Where and when has this been confirmed to be what is happening here? It hasn't...people are just overreacting.
edit: guy above me has his head on straight, at least.
Incontrol: "So just for clarity's sake, as it stands right now, if there were no conversations we would only see KESPA players in the KESPA league and MLG because that is the exclusive agreement?"
Sundance: "Yep"
Incontrol: "And what you're talking about is the potential in the future for you, Sundance DiGiovanni, to talk to who you choose to see if these players want to go to other places, if KESPA agrees with that?
Sundance: "Not just who I choose, anybody can come to me and ask can we do this, can we do that outside of South Korea. I'll entertain it and I'll make the introductions. I mean again, there's certain people we'll be more inclined to work with than others, but again, that's what you get in business. We can all pow along until the health of the business is on the line, and my point goes beyond tournaments to teams. I want to be able to go to KESPA and say, you know here's Evil Geniuses and here's Liquid and I want to get them plugged into what you [KESPA] are doing."
What in that statement says that KeSPA will never send their players to other events? Everyone is just acting like there is never going to be that possibility, ever, which is clearly not the case.
It means you have to go through SD to get BW players.
So this equates into KeSPA players never going to any event other than MLG?
They wouldn't even compete outside of korea in the first place if MLG didn't have any exclusive deals. MLG just gave them a reason to compete outside. and now the community is blasting them for it.
No that's not the case. Without an exclusive deal, everyone would be free to offer BW players travel compensations and other benefits to attract them to tournaments. This way, KeSPA only extends its monopoly through a third party branch. Negotations now have to go through KeSPA and MLG. The strong grip they already impose over their part of the market is only further promoted through this.
We can not possibly know which side, or even both, were pushing for exclusivity. It might have been a requirement KeSPA themselves put up. As it stands, the deal is consciously locking out competitors from the very start. Understandable, yes. One may like it or not, but KeSPA is free to push their own agenda and philosophy of running things. It's certainly is not outlandish to keep your operations withing tight control. To expand your reach overseas came with a price, which MLG surely was not unhappy to collect. Yes, they are in talks with DH, IEM. But these talks happen at the grace of MLG. If such a monopoly is better in the long run remains to be seen.
OGN and GOM will have Proleague/OSL and the GSL/GSTL, MLG will have their tournaments and IPL will have their major championship, but I cannot see for the life of me any top player playing in the GSL and Proleague on a regular bases playing outside of Korea in the US for reasons other than MLG, the European scene will mostly be hurting because of this. It's sad, but the Korean scene will be so stacked with tournaments and practice, they won't have time to travel, and foreign StarCraft 2 will fall into a pit of despair.
On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote: This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
On May 12 2012 07:41 Dosey wrote: [quote]
MLG is having what? 5 events a year? And their prize pools are paltry compared to GSL. Meanwhile they (GSL players) can attend IPL, DH, Iron Squid, and all these other smaller tournaments with somehow =/> prizepools of MLG.
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill.
Where and when has this been confirmed to be what is happening here? It hasn't...people are just overreacting.
edit: guy above me has his head on straight, at least.
Incontrol: "So just for clarity's sake, as it stands right now, if there were no conversations we would only see KESPA players in the KESPA league and MLG because that is the exclusive agreement?"
Sundance: "Yep"
Incontrol: "And what you're talking about is the potential in the future for you, Sundance DiGiovanni, to talk to who you choose to see if these players want to go to other places, if KESPA agrees with that?
Sundance: "Not just who I choose, anybody can come to me and ask can we do this, can we do that outside of South Korea. I'll entertain it and I'll make the introductions. I mean again, there's certain people we'll be more inclined to work with than others, but again, that's what you get in business. We can all pow along until the health of the business is on the line, and my point goes beyond tournaments to teams. I want to be able to go to KESPA and say, you know here's Evil Geniuses and here's Liquid and I want to get them plugged into what you [KESPA] are doing."
What in that statement says that KeSPA will never send their players to other events? Everyone is just acting like there is never going to be that possibility, ever, which is clearly not the case.
It means you have to go through SD to get BW players.
So this equates into KeSPA players never going to any event other than MLG?
They wouldn't even compete outside of korea in the first place if MLG didn't have any exclusive deals. MLG just gave them a reason to compete outside. and now the community is blasting them for it.
No that's not the case. Without an exclusive deal, everyone would be free to offer BW players travel compensations and other benefits to attract them to tournaments. This way, KeSPA only extends its monopoly through a third party branch. Negotations now have to go through KeSPA and MLG. The strong grip they already impose over their part of the market is only further promoted through this.
We can not possibly know which side, or even both, were pushing for exclusivity. It might have been a requirement KeSPA themselves put up. As it stands, the deal is consciously locking out competitors from the very start. Understandable, yes. One may like it or not, but KeSPA is free to push their own agenda and philosophy of running things. It's certainly is not outlandish to keep your operations withing tight control. To expand your reach overseas came with a price, which MLG surely was not unhappy to collect. Yes, they are in talks with DH, IEM. But these talks happen at the grace of MLG. If such a monopoly is better in the long run remains to be seen.
I'd bet it was Kespa pushing for exclusivity as I can't see Kespa being happy with losing their players to all those leagues. Again I doubt Kespa would let their players play outside of korea unless there's a partnership.
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague? It obviously wouldn't be good for current players HOWEVER consider the implications of what this "exclusive" partnership brings to the table. If they kill off the competition I guarantee you every event will become PPV and the quality will degrade as there is no competitors fostering a healthy market.... The amazing high level play we've seen the past year is because GOM has supported the foreign scene with its player pool. Think about how many korean pros have traveled to play all weekend and return on Monday to play in their GSL matches/groups. Just having these pros showing up at every large international tournament has been amazing. Also they've seeded lots of players into code S and allowed ppl to compete in Code A without being on a Korean team. I don't foresee Kespa/MLG being as generous with their teams and scheduling.
Well you clearly know everything and have talked exclusively with Kespa and MLG representatives. I guess in two years everyone will be paying their cable provider $60 for MLG Championship PPV. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were so connected to everyone and knew this deal that well.
Look at this guy meticulously building up a strawman and destroying it in a blaze of glory. Bravo.
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague? It obviously wouldn't be good for current players HOWEVER consider the implications of what this "exclusive" partnership brings to the table. If they kill off the competition I guarantee you every event will become PPV and the quality will degrade as there is no competitors fostering a healthy market.... The amazing high level play we've seen the past year is because GOM has supported the foreign scene with its player pool. Think about how many korean pros have traveled to play all weekend and return on Monday to play in their GSL matches/groups. Just having these pros showing up at every large international tournament has been amazing. Also they've seeded lots of players into code S and allowed ppl to compete in Code A without being on a Korean team. I don't foresee Kespa/MLG being as generous with their teams and scheduling.
Well you clearly know everything and have talked exclusively with Kespa and MLG representatives. I guess in two years everyone will be paying their cable provider $60 for MLG Championship PPV. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were so connected to everyone and knew this deal that well.
Look at this guy meticulously building up a strawman and destroying it in a blaze of glory. Bravo.
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague? It obviously wouldn't be good for current players HOWEVER consider the implications of what this "exclusive" partnership brings to the table. If they kill off the competition I guarantee you every event will become PPV and the quality will degrade as there is no competitors fostering a healthy market.... The amazing high level play we've seen the past year is because GOM has supported the foreign scene with its player pool. Think about how many korean pros have traveled to play all weekend and return on Monday to play in their GSL matches/groups. Just having these pros showing up at every large international tournament has been amazing. Also they've seeded lots of players into code S and allowed ppl to compete in Code A without being on a Korean team. I don't foresee Kespa/MLG being as generous with their teams and scheduling.
Well you clearly know everything and have talked exclusively with Kespa and MLG representatives. I guess in two years everyone will be paying their cable provider $60 for MLG Championship PPV. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were so connected to everyone and knew this deal that well.
Look at this guy meticulously building up a strawman and destroying it in a blaze of glory. Bravo.
Sorry that I just don't buy into a bunch of random speculation from a random guy posting on TL.
I'm excited and terrified at the same time. I'm glad the BW veterans will be able to play in foreign tournaments eventually, but at the same time I'm hoping this "exclusivity clause" doesn't turn out to be as terrible as it potentially could be.
Here's to hoping MLG can be the hero we need, and make it work for everyone in the end.
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague? It obviously wouldn't be good for current players HOWEVER consider the implications of what this "exclusive" partnership brings to the table. If they kill off the competition I guarantee you every event will become PPV and the quality will degrade as there is no competitors fostering a healthy market.... The amazing high level play we've seen the past year is because GOM has supported the foreign scene with its player pool. Think about how many korean pros have traveled to play all weekend and return on Monday to play in their GSL matches/groups. Just having these pros showing up at every large international tournament has been amazing. Also they've seeded lots of players into code S and allowed ppl to compete in Code A without being on a Korean team. I don't foresee Kespa/MLG being as generous with their teams and scheduling.
Well you clearly know everything and have talked exclusively with Kespa and MLG representatives. I guess in two years everyone will be paying their cable provider $60 for MLG Championship PPV. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were so connected to everyone and knew this deal that well.
Look at this guy meticulously building up a strawman and destroying it in a blaze of glory. Bravo.
Sorry that I just don't buy into a bunch of random speculation from a random guy posting on TL.
While I have made assumptions in my posts they are still based on the implications of this "exclusive" agreement between MLG/Kespa. In fact it been more than implied that Sundance will be the "gate keeper" to the current BW pros switching. I think this is a bullshit arrangement and I don't think its good for the international scene. These are simply my opinions and I do realize only time will tell how things really play out.
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague? It obviously wouldn't be good for current players HOWEVER consider the implications of what this "exclusive" partnership brings to the table. If they kill off the competition I guarantee you every event will become PPV and the quality will degrade as there is no competitors fostering a healthy market.... The amazing high level play we've seen the past year is because GOM has supported the foreign scene with its player pool. Think about how many korean pros have traveled to play all weekend and return on Monday to play in their GSL matches/groups. Just having these pros showing up at every large international tournament has been amazing. Also they've seeded lots of players into code S and allowed ppl to compete in Code A without being on a Korean team. I don't foresee Kespa/MLG being as generous with their teams and scheduling.
Well you clearly know everything and have talked exclusively with Kespa and MLG representatives. I guess in two years everyone will be paying their cable provider $60 for MLG Championship PPV. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were so connected to everyone and knew this deal that well.
Look at this guy meticulously building up a strawman and destroying it in a blaze of glory. Bravo.
Sorry that I just don't buy into a bunch of random speculation from a random guy posting on TL.
While I have made assumptions in my posts they are still based on the implications of this "exclusive" agreement between MLG/Kespa. In fact it been more than implied that Sundance will be the "gate keeper" to the current BW pros switching. I think this is a bullshit arrangement and I don't think its good for the international scene. These are simply my opinions and I do realize only time will tell how things really play out.
Would rather have something than nothing at all. Would hate to see Kespa ignore the foreign scene and just stay in Korea, So thank you Sundance for giving them a reason to come out.
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague? It obviously wouldn't be good for current players HOWEVER consider the implications of what this "exclusive" partnership brings to the table. If they kill off the competition I guarantee you every event will become PPV and the quality will degrade as there is no competitors fostering a healthy market.... The amazing high level play we've seen the past year is because GOM has supported the foreign scene with its player pool. Think about how many korean pros have traveled to play all weekend and return on Monday to play in their GSL matches/groups. Just having these pros showing up at every large international tournament has been amazing. Also they've seeded lots of players into code S and allowed ppl to compete in Code A without being on a Korean team. I don't foresee Kespa/MLG being as generous with their teams and scheduling.
Well you clearly know everything and have talked exclusively with Kespa and MLG representatives. I guess in two years everyone will be paying their cable provider $60 for MLG Championship PPV. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were so connected to everyone and knew this deal that well.
Look at this guy meticulously building up a strawman and destroying it in a blaze of glory. Bravo.
Sorry that I just don't buy into a bunch of random speculation from a random guy posting on TL.
While I have made assumptions in my posts they are still based on the implications of this "exclusive" agreement between MLG/Kespa. In fact it been more than implied that Sundance will be the "gate keeper" to the current BW pros switching. I think this is a bullshit arrangement and I don't think its good for the international scene. These are simply my opinions and I do realize only time will tell how things really play out.
Would rather have something than nothing at all. Would hate to see Kespa ignore the foreign scene and just stay in Korea, So thank you Sundance for giving them a reason to come out.
Why are you implying they weren't going to come out regardless? I don't get it. They've had players travel to the US before, with WCG and even Blizzcon. One of the big things they talked about last week was expanding to the foreign scene because closing off was bad for BW. If IPL wanted to fly them out barring they weren't busy at the time I really don't think KeSPA would have said no. MLG didn't make something happen that wouldn't have before, they jumped on it before anything could happen and now everyone has to go through them.
On May 11 2012 18:07 StriderDoom wrote: im glad for esports if this all works out but, if leagues like the GSL, NASL, etc start to go under because of stuff like this im going to be so bummed
GSL is too big to fall at this point, It's IPL/NASL/DH/IEM that should be worried.
Have to disagree, this will really puts more pressure on GOM than the others. SC2 doesn't seem massive in Korea. The BW legends making the transition might boost it, and well Kespa has them.
The others you stated, have easy access to foreigners. The Koreans that have attended those will likely continue doing so. That is unless MLG really wants to choke out competition and plan things during IPL etc.
You really overestimate how many people would want to watch untested BW pros play sc2 after the novelty has worn off. Compared to current sc2 legends like mvp,nestea,mc,marineking,drg they aren't popular other than Flash because he's all over Reddit all day, Bisu kind of as well but mostly Flash.
My thoughts exactly. I also doubt there will be any player that can dominate the sc2 scene for a length of time considering the significantly lower mechanical skill cap compared to BW... top players will likely be constantly shifting around as we've already seen with the game.
What The Fuck. Shit just got real. Man Anaheim is going to be insane with all these things happenning all at once there. I'm starting to get worried that since there is so much great stuff going on at once, that the production might be hurt a bit. I certainly hope not though.
On May 12 2012 07:43 Ammanas wrote: This thread is so full of bullshit. Basically, nothing changes. Kespa players will attend events that pay the trip. Wont be attending those that dont pay. Basically GSL teams are doing more or less the same right now. Either their players are sponsored by some foreigner money (either event pays or sponsor or the foreign partnership) and they go to events, or they dont and they dont go. Simple as that.
[quote]
But they cant! IPL was paying for their Koreans (either by invites or GOMTV paying for GSTL teams. DH was not paying and they had like 5 koreans (out of which one of them was paid by ESV if I am not mistaken, others were Koreans on foreigner teams or with foreign partnerships who were paying for trips and 2 TSL guys who were probably sent there by Polt winning MSI Pro Cups). Iron Squid was online and final four trip was paid by Iron Squid.
MLG is also paying for Koreans (and fortunately now for EUs and NAs). They will work with Dreamhack and probably other events as well with KESPA players in mind, as confirmed by Sundance. Also IEM is paying for their Koreans. Everyone is paying for Koreans, one way or another.
You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill.
Where and when has this been confirmed to be what is happening here? It hasn't...people are just overreacting.
edit: guy above me has his head on straight, at least.
Incontrol: "So just for clarity's sake, as it stands right now, if there were no conversations we would only see KESPA players in the KESPA league and MLG because that is the exclusive agreement?"
Sundance: "Yep"
Incontrol: "And what you're talking about is the potential in the future for you, Sundance DiGiovanni, to talk to who you choose to see if these players want to go to other places, if KESPA agrees with that?
Sundance: "Not just who I choose, anybody can come to me and ask can we do this, can we do that outside of South Korea. I'll entertain it and I'll make the introductions. I mean again, there's certain people we'll be more inclined to work with than others, but again, that's what you get in business. We can all pow along until the health of the business is on the line, and my point goes beyond tournaments to teams. I want to be able to go to KESPA and say, you know here's Evil Geniuses and here's Liquid and I want to get them plugged into what you [KESPA] are doing."
What in that statement says that KeSPA will never send their players to other events? Everyone is just acting like there is never going to be that possibility, ever, which is clearly not the case.
It means you have to go through SD to get BW players.
So this equates into KeSPA players never going to any event other than MLG?
They wouldn't even compete outside of korea in the first place if MLG didn't have any exclusive deals. MLG just gave them a reason to compete outside. and now the community is blasting them for it.
No that's not the case. Without an exclusive deal, everyone would be free to offer BW players travel compensations and other benefits to attract them to tournaments. This way, KeSPA only extends its monopoly through a third party branch. Negotations now have to go through KeSPA and MLG. The strong grip they already impose over their part of the market is only further promoted through this.
We can not possibly know which side, or even both, were pushing for exclusivity. It might have been a requirement KeSPA themselves put up. As it stands, the deal is consciously locking out competitors from the very start. Understandable, yes. One may like it or not, but KeSPA is free to push their own agenda and philosophy of running things. It's certainly is not outlandish to keep your operations withing tight control. To expand your reach overseas came with a price, which MLG surely was not unhappy to collect. Yes, they are in talks with DH, IEM. But these talks happen at the grace of MLG. If such a monopoly is better in the long run remains to be seen.
I'd bet it was Kespa pushing for exclusivity as I can't see Kespa being happy with losing their players to all those leagues. Again I doubt Kespa would let their players play outside of korea unless there's a partnership.
There is a distinction between partnership and exclusive partnership. Yes, it is highly likely KeSPA is interested in a controlled enviroment. It just so happens that MLG managed to be in the right place at the right time. Certainly smart business. possibly detrimental to the scene, still.
On May 12 2012 07:55 Rorschach wrote: You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill. It would be an exclusive arrangement between MLG/Kespa and the new Proleagues players.
This sums up the sentiment of 80% of this thread. Lies and or poor assumptions are clouding so many people's judgements.
Please reread the announcement or rewatch Sundance's interviews and point out where it is mentioned this is what the exclusivtiy deal means instead of what you are imagining it to be.
On May 12 2012 07:55 Rorschach wrote: You're missing the big picture. The difference would be Kespa wouldn't allow their teams/players to participate in IPL/DH/ETC regardless of the venue offering to foot the bill. It would be an exclusive arrangement between MLG/Kespa and the new Proleagues players.
This sums up the sentiment of 80% of this thread. Lies and or poor assumptions are clouding so many people's judgements.
Please reread the announcement or rewatch Sundance's interviews and point out where it is mentioned this is what the exclusivtiy deal means instead of what you are imagining it to be.
how can "they would have to go through me" possibly be more clear?
and still doesnt answer the single controversial and most important question: does one have to go through MLG in order to negotiate BW player attendance or is everybody free to approach KeSPA directly? Adam's boss at least gave a different answer. KeSPA dictating their own terms is their legitimate right. But we still have no conclusive answer on why DH has to be in talks with MLG, and not KeSPA. it means de-facto everybody is dependent on MLG's willingness to play nice.
From what I heard in state of the game last night, (if I remember right) KeSPA wanted this "exclusive" thing to protect/control players and allow them to schedule matches with MLG so that they won't mix with proleague? I mean I guess players will be allowed to travel anywhere if they want to, but with both MLG and proleague matches, will they have time to?
Especially with SC2 training and all. Sundance did say that KeSPA didn't limit itself to MLG only for next several years and that other leagues will be able to come to sit and talk with them?
On May 12 2012 07:22 Rorschach wrote: Disliking MLG more and more (I am sure Kespa has their fair share of the blame on this particular issue).... When we have all these smaller grassroots tournaments being held that are very high standards I see no place for an approach that Sundance is taking.
They need us the viewer and not the other way around. Just because they have the game/broadcasting capabilities doesn't mean we should jump through hoops to see unproven players. As far as I am concerned GSL will keep the highest caliber of players and until the new Proleague proves me wrong it will stay that way. Just remember to vote with your wallet!
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague? It obviously wouldn't be good for current players HOWEVER consider the implications of what this "exclusive" partnership brings to the table. If they kill off the competition I guarantee you every event will become PPV and the quality will degrade as there is no competitors fostering a healthy market.... The amazing high level play we've seen the past year is because GOM has supported the foreign scene with its player pool. Think about how many korean pros have traveled to play all weekend and return on Monday to play in their GSL matches/groups. Just having these pros showing up at every large international tournament has been amazing. Also they've seeded lots of players into code S and allowed ppl to compete in Code A without being on a Korean team. I don't foresee Kespa/MLG being as generous with their teams and scheduling.
Well you clearly know everything and have talked exclusively with Kespa and MLG representatives. I guess in two years everyone will be paying their cable provider $60 for MLG Championship PPV. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were so connected to everyone and knew this deal that well.
Look at this guy meticulously building up a strawman and destroying it in a blaze of glory. Bravo.
Sorry that I just don't buy into a bunch of random speculation from a random guy posting on TL.
While I have made assumptions in my posts they are still based on the implications of this "exclusive" agreement between MLG/Kespa. In fact it been more than implied that Sundance will be the "gate keeper" to the current BW pros switching. I think this is a bullshit arrangement and I don't think its good for the international scene. These are simply my opinions and I do realize only time will tell how things really play out.
Would rather have something than nothing at all. Would hate to see Kespa ignore the foreign scene and just stay in Korea, So thank you Sundance for giving them a reason to come out.
Why are you implying they weren't going to come out regardless? I don't get it. They've had players travel to the US before, with WCG and even Blizzcon. One of the big things they talked about last week was expanding to the foreign scene because closing off was bad for BW. If IPL wanted to fly them out barring they weren't busy at the time I really don't think KeSPA would have said no. MLG didn't make something happen that wouldn't have before, they jumped on it before anything could happen and now everyone has to go through them.
WCG by Samsung part/sponsors Kespa
Blizzard they made the damn game
Only 2 exceptions of the decade.
Where did everyone get this weird assumption that Kespa would allow their players to play in tournaments outside of korea, If MLG didn't have an exclusive deal.
Where did everyone get this weird assumption that Kespa would allow their players to play in tournaments outside of korea, If MLG didn't have an exclusive deal.
It's more like KeSPA wanting to take things slowly since they have never been outside Korea before (on regular basis).
People are getting all up in arms about the exclusive agreement between MLG and KeSPA saying that it hurts eSports because KeSPA players will only be at MLG/KeSPA events. KeSPA, as an organization, has a long history of shutting out ALL outsiders. They made it pretty impossible for foreigners to compete in their events and would NEVER send any of their players overseas. They are an organization that keeps a very tight hold on their players. They control EVERYTHING. They control the players. The teams. The events. Everything. People are all upset that KeSPA players aren't going to be at IPL, Dreamhack, etc. because of this agreement. These people have no reason to be mad. The fact that MLG has made a deal with KeSPA to send their players overseas is FUCKING HUGE. It is such a big step for KeSPA - this is BY FAR the most amicable I have ever seen them. It is not like if this deal didn't happen, KeSPA would allow their players to travel freely. No. Hell no, that would not happen. They probably would stay in Korea like they always have. Obviously the playing field is different in SC2 than it was in BW in that they NEED global exposure to survive. But KeSPA is all about CONTROL. So if not MLG, they would have probably signed a deal with someone else.
Ppl open your eyes this is a huge step for Kespa to be more open, and At the moment MLG seems to be the only one with enough goodies to make Kespa an offer they can't refuse.
People are getting all up in arms about the exclusive agreement between MLG and KeSPA saying that it hurts eSports because KeSPA players will only be at MLG/KeSPA events. KeSPA, as an organization, has a long history of shutting out ALL outsiders. They made it pretty impossible for foreigners to compete in their events and would NEVER send any of their players overseas. They are an organization that keeps a very tight hold on their players. They control EVERYTHING. They control the players. The teams. The events. Everything. People are all upset that KeSPA players aren't going to be at IPL, Dreamhack, etc. because of this agreement. These people have no reason to be mad. The fact that MLG has made a deal with KeSPA to send their players overseas is FUCKING HUGE. It is such a big step for KeSPA - this is BY FAR the most amicable I have ever seen them. It is not like if this deal didn't happen, KeSPA would allow their players to travel freely. No. Hell no, that would not happen. They probably would stay in Korea like they always have. Obviously the playing field is different in SC2 than it was in BW in that they NEED global exposure to survive. But KeSPA is all about CONTROL. So if not MLG, they would have probably signed a deal with someone else.
Ppl open your eyes this is a huge step for Kespa to be more open, and At the moment MLG seems to be the only one with enough goodies to make Kespa an offer they can't refuse.
I don't know they sent players to blizzcon on wcg. They also let GOM exist for 3 seasons and even with all the drama of them shutting down the 4th GOM season 5 of the teams still said they would play in it. It seems like they didn't have absolute control over all the teams preventing them from playing in other leagues unless that changed.
On May 12 2012 13:56 zaii wrote: Let me quote this martyr from Reddit
People are getting all up in arms about the exclusive agreement between MLG and KeSPA saying that it hurts eSports because KeSPA players will only be at MLG/KeSPA events. KeSPA, as an organization, has a long history of shutting out ALL outsiders. They made it pretty impossible for foreigners to compete in their events and would NEVER send any of their players overseas. They are an organization that keeps a very tight hold on their players. They control EVERYTHING. They control the players. The teams. The events. Everything. People are all upset that KeSPA players aren't going to be at IPL, Dreamhack, etc. because of this agreement. These people have no reason to be mad. The fact that MLG has made a deal with KeSPA to send their players overseas is FUCKING HUGE. It is such a big step for KeSPA - this is BY FAR the most amicable I have ever seen them. It is not like if this deal didn't happen, KeSPA would allow their players to travel freely. No. Hell no, that would not happen. They probably would stay in Korea like they always have. Obviously the playing field is different in SC2 than it was in BW in that they NEED global exposure to survive. But KeSPA is all about CONTROL. So if not MLG, they would have probably signed a deal with someone else.
Ppl open your eyes this is a huge step for Kespa to be more open, and At the moment MLG seems to be the only one with enough goodies to make Kespa an offer they can't refuse.
I don't know they sent players to blizzcon on wcg. They also let GOM exist for 3 seasons and even with all the drama of them shutting down the 4th GOM season 5 of the teams still said they would play in it. It seems like they didn't have absolute control over all the teams preventing them from playing in other leagues unless that changed.
If I were any player in the GSL, I would refuse to attend MLGs. MLG is trying to corner the market by owning exclusive rights to some of the most anticipated players... But if those anticipated players remain untested against the current top players, can their exclusive product really be legitimized?
Who gives a F if untested brood war players beat up on foreigners and themselves. Let them.
What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague? It obviously wouldn't be good for current players HOWEVER consider the implications of what this "exclusive" partnership brings to the table. If they kill off the competition I guarantee you every event will become PPV and the quality will degrade as there is no competitors fostering a healthy market.... The amazing high level play we've seen the past year is because GOM has supported the foreign scene with its player pool. Think about how many korean pros have traveled to play all weekend and return on Monday to play in their GSL matches/groups. Just having these pros showing up at every large international tournament has been amazing. Also they've seeded lots of players into code S and allowed ppl to compete in Code A without being on a Korean team. I don't foresee Kespa/MLG being as generous with their teams and scheduling.
Well you clearly know everything and have talked exclusively with Kespa and MLG representatives. I guess in two years everyone will be paying their cable provider $60 for MLG Championship PPV. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were so connected to everyone and knew this deal that well.
Look at this guy meticulously building up a strawman and destroying it in a blaze of glory. Bravo.
Sorry that I just don't buy into a bunch of random speculation from a random guy posting on TL.
While I have made assumptions in my posts they are still based on the implications of this "exclusive" agreement between MLG/Kespa. In fact it been more than implied that Sundance will be the "gate keeper" to the current BW pros switching. I think this is a bullshit arrangement and I don't think its good for the international scene. These are simply my opinions and I do realize only time will tell how things really play out.
Would rather have something than nothing at all. Would hate to see Kespa ignore the foreign scene and just stay in Korea, So thank you Sundance for giving them a reason to come out.
Why are you implying they weren't going to come out regardless? I don't get it. They've had players travel to the US before, with WCG and even Blizzcon. One of the big things they talked about last week was expanding to the foreign scene because closing off was bad for BW. If IPL wanted to fly them out barring they weren't busy at the time I really don't think KeSPA would have said no. MLG didn't make something happen that wouldn't have before, they jumped on it before anything could happen and now everyone has to go through them.
WCG by Samsung part/sponsors Kespa
Blizzard they made the damn game
Only 2 exceptions of the decade.
Where did everyone get this weird assumption that Kespa would allow their players to play in tournaments outside of korea, If MLG didn't have an exclusive deal.
Sure, I'll explain why I think this would have happened without MLG needing exclusivity, cause that's what they were talking about at the big meeting with Blizz/OGN/GOM/KeSPA. They specifically mentioned that ignoring the international scene was a mistake. BoxeR even got up to ask and suggest they allow players outside Korea himself. Here's the specific part:
[11:43] BoxeR asks, For the past 10 years, we have been growing eSports only inside Korea, but is continually shrinking. I think KeSPA should send Korean players to foreign tournaments where many SC2 leagues are happening. Once you transition to SC2, will KeSPA-affiliated players have support from KeSPA to go oversea?
Mr. Oh: Many people ask, why SC2? The main reason why us four organizations are transitioning to SC2 is because we wish to expand Korean eSports scene. The ultimate purpose of transitioning Proleague to SC2 is for globalization. Of course, Proleague will have tight schedule, but KeSPA will be more open to it. We are already in talk with many leagues in the world and already initiating some. KeSPA-affiliated players will attend international tournaments.
So given the above, now it's my turn to ask where you got the assumption that without MLG making an exclusive deal, KeSPA was never going to work with anyone outside of Korea. I don't see any reason whatsoever why they couldn't do this deal without making it "exclusive." No one's up in arms because they're partnering MLG, people are up in arms because they're worried that given Flash has the time between schedules and no MLG is coming up, IPL wouldn't be able to fly Flash over because it's a direct competitor to MLG.
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote: [quote] What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague? It obviously wouldn't be good for current players HOWEVER consider the implications of what this "exclusive" partnership brings to the table. If they kill off the competition I guarantee you every event will become PPV and the quality will degrade as there is no competitors fostering a healthy market.... The amazing high level play we've seen the past year is because GOM has supported the foreign scene with its player pool. Think about how many korean pros have traveled to play all weekend and return on Monday to play in their GSL matches/groups. Just having these pros showing up at every large international tournament has been amazing. Also they've seeded lots of players into code S and allowed ppl to compete in Code A without being on a Korean team. I don't foresee Kespa/MLG being as generous with their teams and scheduling.
Well you clearly know everything and have talked exclusively with Kespa and MLG representatives. I guess in two years everyone will be paying their cable provider $60 for MLG Championship PPV. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were so connected to everyone and knew this deal that well.
Look at this guy meticulously building up a strawman and destroying it in a blaze of glory. Bravo.
Sorry that I just don't buy into a bunch of random speculation from a random guy posting on TL.
While I have made assumptions in my posts they are still based on the implications of this "exclusive" agreement between MLG/Kespa. In fact it been more than implied that Sundance will be the "gate keeper" to the current BW pros switching. I think this is a bullshit arrangement and I don't think its good for the international scene. These are simply my opinions and I do realize only time will tell how things really play out.
Would rather have something than nothing at all. Would hate to see Kespa ignore the foreign scene and just stay in Korea, So thank you Sundance for giving them a reason to come out.
Why are you implying they weren't going to come out regardless? I don't get it. They've had players travel to the US before, with WCG and even Blizzcon. One of the big things they talked about last week was expanding to the foreign scene because closing off was bad for BW. If IPL wanted to fly them out barring they weren't busy at the time I really don't think KeSPA would have said no. MLG didn't make something happen that wouldn't have before, they jumped on it before anything could happen and now everyone has to go through them.
WCG by Samsung part/sponsors Kespa
Blizzard they made the damn game
Only 2 exceptions of the decade.
Where did everyone get this weird assumption that Kespa would allow their players to play in tournaments outside of korea, If MLG didn't have an exclusive deal.
Sure, I'll explain why I think this would have happened without MLG needing exclusivity, cause that's what they were talking about at the big meeting with Blizz/OGN/GOM/KeSPA. They specifically mentioned that ignoring the international scene was a mistake. BoxeR even got up to ask and suggest they allow players outside Korea himself. Here's the specific part:
[11:43] BoxeR asks, For the past 10 years, we have been growing eSports only inside Korea, but is continually shrinking. I think KeSPA should send Korean players to foreign tournaments where many SC2 leagues are happening. Once you transition to SC2, will KeSPA-affiliated players have support from KeSPA to go oversea?
Mr. Oh: Many people ask, why SC2? The main reason why us four organizations are transitioning to SC2 is because we wish to expand Korean eSports scene. The ultimate purpose of transitioning Proleague to SC2 is for globalization. Of course, Proleague will have tight schedule, but KeSPA will be more open to it. We are already in talk with many leagues in the world and already initiating some. KeSPA-affiliated players will attend international tournaments.
So given the above, now it's my turn to ask where you got the assumption that without MLG making an exclusive deal, KeSPA was never going to work with anyone outside of Korea. I don't see any reason whatsoever why they couldn't do this deal without making it "exclusive." No one's up in arms because they're partnering MLG, people are up in arms because they're worried that given Flash has the time between schedules and no MLG is coming up, IPL wouldn't be able to fly Flash over because it's a direct competitor to MLG.
MLG has been talking to Kespa for a long time now. Wouldn't surprise me if what they really meant by "We are already in talk with many leagues in the world" is that MLG is there gateway to the world and that MLG is already in talks with other leagues, Which is what is already happening at the moment.
Kespa has always had a tight control on there players and seeing them play outside korea would seem like they are losing them, Just look at there history. Also there's absolutely no reason for Kespa to allow their players to play outside of Korea.
Except MLG making them an offer they can't refuse.
People are getting all up in arms about the exclusive agreement between MLG and KeSPA saying that it hurts eSports because KeSPA players will only be at MLG/KeSPA events. KeSPA, as an organization, has a long history of shutting out ALL outsiders. They made it pretty impossible for foreigners to compete in their events and would NEVER send any of their players overseas. They are an organization that keeps a very tight hold on their players. They control EVERYTHING. They control the players. The teams. The events. Everything. People are all upset that KeSPA players aren't going to be at IPL, Dreamhack, etc. because of this agreement. These people have no reason to be mad. The fact that MLG has made a deal with KeSPA to send their players overseas is FUCKING HUGE. It is such a big step for KeSPA - this is BY FAR the most amicable I have ever seen them. It is not like if this deal didn't happen, KeSPA would allow their players to travel freely. No. Hell no, that would not happen. They probably would stay in Korea like they always have. Obviously the playing field is different in SC2 than it was in BW in that they NEED global exposure to survive. But KeSPA is all about CONTROL. So if not MLG, they would have probably signed a deal with someone else.
Ppl open your eyes this is a huge step for Kespa to be more open, and At the moment MLG seems to be the only one with enough goodies to make Kespa an offer they can't refuse.
The problem is that MLG and Sundance will be the gate keepers to KeSPA. You can't assume KeSPA and MLG won't exploit the hell out of the SC2 market. It would be bad business if they didn't! Only MLG has KeSPA's ear and if you want in, you're probably going to have a pay a price.
On May 12 2012 07:38 jmbthirteen wrote: [quote] What good would that do for the current GSL players? All it would do is give those GSL players less tournaments to play in. Tournaments that pay the way for the GSL players to get there and have damn good prize pools. And as long as they keep their skill up, they will continue to get free rides to MLGs.
How is it any better than MLG/Kespa intending to keep their league/pros exclusive to MLG/Proleague? It obviously wouldn't be good for current players HOWEVER consider the implications of what this "exclusive" partnership brings to the table. If they kill off the competition I guarantee you every event will become PPV and the quality will degrade as there is no competitors fostering a healthy market.... The amazing high level play we've seen the past year is because GOM has supported the foreign scene with its player pool. Think about how many korean pros have traveled to play all weekend and return on Monday to play in their GSL matches/groups. Just having these pros showing up at every large international tournament has been amazing. Also they've seeded lots of players into code S and allowed ppl to compete in Code A without being on a Korean team. I don't foresee Kespa/MLG being as generous with their teams and scheduling.
Well you clearly know everything and have talked exclusively with Kespa and MLG representatives. I guess in two years everyone will be paying their cable provider $60 for MLG Championship PPV. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were so connected to everyone and knew this deal that well.
Look at this guy meticulously building up a strawman and destroying it in a blaze of glory. Bravo.
Sorry that I just don't buy into a bunch of random speculation from a random guy posting on TL.
While I have made assumptions in my posts they are still based on the implications of this "exclusive" agreement between MLG/Kespa. In fact it been more than implied that Sundance will be the "gate keeper" to the current BW pros switching. I think this is a bullshit arrangement and I don't think its good for the international scene. These are simply my opinions and I do realize only time will tell how things really play out.
Would rather have something than nothing at all. Would hate to see Kespa ignore the foreign scene and just stay in Korea, So thank you Sundance for giving them a reason to come out.
Why are you implying they weren't going to come out regardless? I don't get it. They've had players travel to the US before, with WCG and even Blizzcon. One of the big things they talked about last week was expanding to the foreign scene because closing off was bad for BW. If IPL wanted to fly them out barring they weren't busy at the time I really don't think KeSPA would have said no. MLG didn't make something happen that wouldn't have before, they jumped on it before anything could happen and now everyone has to go through them.
WCG by Samsung part/sponsors Kespa
Blizzard they made the damn game
Only 2 exceptions of the decade.
Where did everyone get this weird assumption that Kespa would allow their players to play in tournaments outside of korea, If MLG didn't have an exclusive deal.
Sure, I'll explain why I think this would have happened without MLG needing exclusivity, cause that's what they were talking about at the big meeting with Blizz/OGN/GOM/KeSPA. They specifically mentioned that ignoring the international scene was a mistake. BoxeR even got up to ask and suggest they allow players outside Korea himself. Here's the specific part:
[11:43] BoxeR asks, For the past 10 years, we have been growing eSports only inside Korea, but is continually shrinking. I think KeSPA should send Korean players to foreign tournaments where many SC2 leagues are happening. Once you transition to SC2, will KeSPA-affiliated players have support from KeSPA to go oversea?
Mr. Oh: Many people ask, why SC2? The main reason why us four organizations are transitioning to SC2 is because we wish to expand Korean eSports scene. The ultimate purpose of transitioning Proleague to SC2 is for globalization. Of course, Proleague will have tight schedule, but KeSPA will be more open to it. We are already in talk with many leagues in the world and already initiating some. KeSPA-affiliated players will attend international tournaments.
So given the above, now it's my turn to ask where you got the assumption that without MLG making an exclusive deal, KeSPA was never going to work with anyone outside of Korea. I don't see any reason whatsoever why they couldn't do this deal without making it "exclusive." No one's up in arms because they're partnering MLG, people are up in arms because they're worried that given Flash has the time between schedules and no MLG is coming up, IPL wouldn't be able to fly Flash over because it's a direct competitor to MLG.
I see this as nothing more than MLG grabbing the ball before the smoke clears so they have a relevance to hang on too, if they can't deliver a product and their new business models don't work then they still have the Kespa deal to keep them alive. I see this as nothing but MLG being MLG and trying to bring in the dollars.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
I think you mean Blizzcon. Since regional championships are... regional. I'm not sure if a grand finals were ever held in the US.
Growth for esports and growth for MLG are not one and the same, infact in this situation they are the opposite.
For MLG this could be a coup where they can make some quick money if they have exclusive rights to broadcast Jaedong and Flash, while charging for it, the initial novelty of seeing these guys will spark good buys for them.
But for the long term this will never attract new fans or expand the audience, its just suppose to get the current fans to buy more of MLG streams, until its bled dry and MLG moves on to whatever the next big thing is, LoL, Black Ops 2 etc.
I cant blame MLG for this, for short term, they will make some good money that they badly need. But for the big picture it will just hamper the entire SC2 esport scene.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
I think you mean Blizzcon. Since regional championships are... regional. I'm not sure if a grand finals were ever held in the US.
2010 WCG Grand Finals were held in LA. Flash, Kal, and Jaedong competed, and Flash won.
More often than not exclusivity is just the easiest form of getting ahead in competition, as providing a better service takes more effort.
However obviously the latter one is the stuff I'd appreciate.
Now MLG sure does improve their service all the time, still an exclusive deal controlling some of the player flow, fuck that. Perhaps in comparison to what KeSPA allowed before that's pretty good.
But I would've hoped teams could be the one pulling the strings now. Sure, none is gonna participate in too many tournaments simply due to time restrictions, but it would be nice if the teams and players were the ones deciding who plays when and where.
This all sounds like MLG took a page out of KeSPA's book and now became this big international proxy-KeSPA. "You want BW players in your international tournaments? You have to go through us now. Please have your purse ready."
Overlapping other international tournaments and ensuring that DH will always just be a qualifier to an MLG qualifier was obviously just a first step. Altering maps without the creator's consent is a new thing on the table. Bullying is the way forward for them.
The only one who could regn in some of these developments in the interest of the community and worldwide e-sports growth, is Blizzard themselves. They sit above all and have the big lever. I hope they act on this in a timely manner before half the foreign tournament scene dies.
He is slightly off in one regard: I have nothing against MLG as a company. I was an early adopter of their Arena passes. I also mentioned in my previous posts, that much of the control concerns is likely motivated by KeSPA's side. Plus, the question whether KeSPA would have agreed to a non-exclusive deal with anyone is still valid. From a business standpoint, there are many arguments for MLG to take the chance to strengthen their strategical position.
The positives of the deal for us are clear: It is a breakthrough of KeSPA opening up to the international audience, and MLG facilitated it. But:
Speculation /= truth. We are partners with Kespa in this, not their agent nor gate keeper. We will make joint decisions to grow.
Technically true: MLG is now not "just" KeSPA's watchdog, both agreed to cooperate on same eye-level. Again, another breakthrough given KeSPA's history. It means "we are not KeSPA's dog. we are KeSPA to the west and KeSPA is us to KR." - with the pleasant side-effect of quenching every competition form the start.
It means to make a deal, one has come to terms with both KeSPA's and MLG's demands. It means without consent from both, there will be no attendance of BW players.
MLG is not to fault for taking advantage. Someone else would have, too. I still remain skeptical whether to endorse a "lesser evil" is better than pressing for an open market.
On May 12 2012 21:36 Mongolbonjwa wrote: IPL is not "direct competitor" of MLG. Those tournaments do not run at the same time so they are not competing for viewers.
Up until now, everyone has looked to avoid conflicts with each other on an open playing field. In the future, DH, IEM and IPL have to be extra nice to make sure MLG gives you a share of their BW players.
People are getting all up in arms about the exclusive agreement between MLG and KeSPA saying that it hurts eSports because KeSPA players will only be at MLG/KeSPA events. KeSPA, as an organization, has a long history of shutting out ALL outsiders. They made it pretty impossible for foreigners to compete in their events and would NEVER send any of their players overseas. They are an organization that keeps a very tight hold on their players. They control EVERYTHING. They control the players. The teams. The events. Everything. People are all upset that KeSPA players aren't going to be at IPL, Dreamhack, etc. because of this agreement. These people have no reason to be mad. The fact that MLG has made a deal with KeSPA to send their players overseas is FUCKING HUGE. It is such a big step for KeSPA - this is BY FAR the most amicable I have ever seen them. It is not like if this deal didn't happen, KeSPA would allow their players to travel freely. No. Hell no, that would not happen. They probably would stay in Korea like they always have. Obviously the playing field is different in SC2 than it was in BW in that they NEED global exposure to survive. But KeSPA is all about CONTROL. So if not MLG, they would have probably signed a deal with someone else.
Ppl open your eyes this is a huge step for Kespa to be more open, and At the moment MLG seems to be the only one with enough goodies to make Kespa an offer they can't refuse.
I don't remember kespa "making it impossible for foreigners to compete in their events", foreigners just weren't good enough. This redditor is clueless about that. Anyone can try to win the courage, it's not koreans only.
Maybe off-topic but when they say "KeSPA players" that exclusively means BW pros who are switching to SC2, right? All SC2 Korean pros who play GSL at GomTV are not under KeSPA and won't be in near future and will be able to compete at any foreign tournament? I am getting kinda confused with this BW-SC2 pros merge and mixed Proleague. :/
I think one point should not be overlooked. We are going to see a big jump in game quality in the next year. Time to separate the boys from the men :D.
On May 12 2012 13:56 zaii wrote: Let me quote this martyr from Reddit
People are getting all up in arms about the exclusive agreement between MLG and KeSPA saying that it hurts eSports because KeSPA players will only be at MLG/KeSPA events. KeSPA, as an organization, has a long history of shutting out ALL outsiders. They made it pretty impossible for foreigners to compete in their events and would NEVER send any of their players overseas. They are an organization that keeps a very tight hold on their players. They control EVERYTHING. They control the players. The teams. The events. Everything. People are all upset that KeSPA players aren't going to be at IPL, Dreamhack, etc. because of this agreement. These people have no reason to be mad. The fact that MLG has made a deal with KeSPA to send their players overseas is FUCKING HUGE. It is such a big step for KeSPA - this is BY FAR the most amicable I have ever seen them. It is not like if this deal didn't happen, KeSPA would allow their players to travel freely. No. Hell no, that would not happen. They probably would stay in Korea like they always have. Obviously the playing field is different in SC2 than it was in BW in that they NEED global exposure to survive. But KeSPA is all about CONTROL. So if not MLG, they would have probably signed a deal with someone else.
Ppl open your eyes this is a huge step for Kespa to be more open, and At the moment MLG seems to be the only one with enough goodies to make Kespa an offer they can't refuse.
I don't remember kespa "making it impossible for foreigners to compete in their events", foreigners just weren't good enough. This redditor is clueless about that. Anyone can try to win the courage, it's not koreans only.
It's more bullshit from SC2 players who don't know anything about the history of BW. Every event there was a reason to send players, Kespa sent players. Blizzcon, WWI, WCG, etc. There were no foreign events for them to shun. I don't know how people like that can continually try to pass off their BS as fact
On May 12 2012 13:56 zaii wrote: Let me quote this martyr from Reddit
People are getting all up in arms about the exclusive agreement between MLG and KeSPA saying that it hurts eSports because KeSPA players will only be at MLG/KeSPA events. KeSPA, as an organization, has a long history of shutting out ALL outsiders. They made it pretty impossible for foreigners to compete in their events and would NEVER send any of their players overseas. They are an organization that keeps a very tight hold on their players. They control EVERYTHING. They control the players. The teams. The events. Everything. People are all upset that KeSPA players aren't going to be at IPL, Dreamhack, etc. because of this agreement. These people have no reason to be mad. The fact that MLG has made a deal with KeSPA to send their players overseas is FUCKING HUGE. It is such a big step for KeSPA - this is BY FAR the most amicable I have ever seen them. It is not like if this deal didn't happen, KeSPA would allow their players to travel freely. No. Hell no, that would not happen. They probably would stay in Korea like they always have. Obviously the playing field is different in SC2 than it was in BW in that they NEED global exposure to survive. But KeSPA is all about CONTROL. So if not MLG, they would have probably signed a deal with someone else.
Ppl open your eyes this is a huge step for Kespa to be more open, and At the moment MLG seems to be the only one with enough goodies to make Kespa an offer they can't refuse.
I don't remember kespa "making it impossible for foreigners to compete in their events", foreigners just weren't good enough. This redditor is clueless about that. Anyone can try to win the courage, it's not koreans only.
It's more bullshit from SC2 players who don't know anything about the history of BW. Every event there was a reason to send players, Kespa sent players. Blizzcon, WWI, WCG, etc. There were no foreign events for them to shun. I don't know how people like that can continually try to pass off their BS as fact
Totally agree! People like to bash KeSPA for some of the things they have done, but saying they do not allowing their players to participate in foreign tournaments is a ridiculous statement, as there were no tournaments outside korea apart from the ones you mentioned. And the thing about not letting anyone outside participate in their tournaments? What's up with that bullshit? Go to korea, go through Courage and you are free to to join any preliminaries you want. But because there have been no non koreans in MSL and OSL for the last decade people assume this is because of some kind of restriction... It's like all the new people have a hard time grasping the vast difference between the korean pros and the rest of the world... The gap was insane
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
I think you mean Blizzcon. Since regional championships are... regional. I'm not sure if a grand finals were ever held in the US.
2010 WCG Grand Finals were held in LA. Flash, Kal, and Jaedong competed, and Flash won.
That was the one where Flash saved Kal from drowning in a pool right?
On May 12 2012 13:56 zaii wrote: Let me quote this martyr from Reddit
People are getting all up in arms about the exclusive agreement between MLG and KeSPA saying that it hurts eSports because KeSPA players will only be at MLG/KeSPA events. KeSPA, as an organization, has a long history of shutting out ALL outsiders. They made it pretty impossible for foreigners to compete in their events and would NEVER send any of their players overseas. They are an organization that keeps a very tight hold on their players. They control EVERYTHING. They control the players. The teams. The events. Everything. People are all upset that KeSPA players aren't going to be at IPL, Dreamhack, etc. because of this agreement. These people have no reason to be mad. The fact that MLG has made a deal with KeSPA to send their players overseas is FUCKING HUGE. It is such a big step for KeSPA - this is BY FAR the most amicable I have ever seen them. It is not like if this deal didn't happen, KeSPA would allow their players to travel freely. No. Hell no, that would not happen. They probably would stay in Korea like they always have. Obviously the playing field is different in SC2 than it was in BW in that they NEED global exposure to survive. But KeSPA is all about CONTROL. So if not MLG, they would have probably signed a deal with someone else.
Ppl open your eyes this is a huge step for Kespa to be more open, and At the moment MLG seems to be the only one with enough goodies to make Kespa an offer they can't refuse.
I don't remember kespa "making it impossible for foreigners to compete in their events", foreigners just weren't good enough. This redditor is clueless about that. Anyone can try to win the courage, it's not koreans only.
yea I actually laughed and stopped reading after that bullshit. Yet people retweet and praise this crap as if MLG has tamed the beast called KeSPA lol
On May 12 2012 06:54 figq wrote: So on SotG they just announced there's gonna be 8 progamers, one from each team, but most likely not ACE, because they aren't allowed out of the air forces.
Thus I edit down my list of hoping: ACE: - FIREBATHERO T8: Jaedong STX: Calm Stars: Soulkey CJ: Effort KT: Flash Khan: Stork SKT: Bisu, Fantasy
edit: They also confirmed it's gonna be single elimination format.
fixed with the only possible player ACE could send, a thousand nerds will faint at the sight of a FBH ceremony if he manages to win... maybe also TheRock so he can beat jaedong and do his throatcutting ceremony
Will be cool, I just hope blizzard fixes the balance issues so every race can play a complete game without being too weak at certain points. Then add some more micro able units into the expansion so the top guys can distinguish themselves from lower level pro players.
On May 12 2012 21:36 Mongolbonjwa wrote: IPL is not "direct competitor" of MLG. Those tournaments do not run at the same time so they are not competing for viewers.
Up until now, everyone has looked to avoid conflicts with each other on an open playing field. In the future, DH, IEM and IPL have to be extra nice to make sure MLG gives you a share of their BW players.
Or if its like how MLG managed other communities, as long as you tournament does not conflict with there event then they can talk business. Although, like I said earlier, there wont be a limitless amount of days that these BW proes are available especially if you consider the likelihood that that they will eventually participate in the GSL and that the GSL pros will eventually participate in whatever OGN will name its sc2 league.
On May 12 2012 21:36 Mongolbonjwa wrote: IPL is not "direct competitor" of MLG. Those tournaments do not run at the same time so they are not competing for viewers.
Up until now, everyone has looked to avoid conflicts with each other on an open playing field. In the future, DH, IEM and IPL have to be extra nice to make sure MLG gives you a share of their BW players.
Or if its like how MLG managed other communities, as long as you tournament does not conflict with there event then they can talk business. Although, like I said earlier, there wont be a limitless amount of days that these BW proes are available especially if you consider the likelihood that that they will eventually participate in the GSL and that the GSL pros will eventually participate in whatever OGN will name its sc2 league.
You don't exactly get my point. Up until now it was an open market. If DH wanted to invite GSL players, they talked to the teams. If their schedule allowed it, they could decide to go or not. DH could offer incentives to make that decision easier. GSL had no say in that regard.
The fact KeSPA controls their players cannot be changed anytime soon- so that has to be accepted. Maybe KeSPA doesn't put up any requirements or demands, it is entirely up to them. Again, something which we simply have to live with right now.
We are not talking about how MLG managed their own random communities. It's about weight, and how much you can bring onto the bargain table between competitors. Of course, larger organizations have a more powerful stance while negotiating with ones of smaller size. There have been, however, a few organizations that can be considered nearly equal. DH conflicted with MLG Arena. Sometimes schedules just don't align perfectly- but given their positions and sizes it made more sense for MLG and DH to make a deal out of it. Give and take.
Now it's different. MLG holds more than every other western organization- the exclusive right to BW players. Since they and KeSPA now synchronize their economical efforts. DH would not only have to accommodate KeSPA in order to get access to BW players, but also will be faced with MLG's demands. It is certainly good for MLG. It is a move every other company would also have taken. Fact of the matter is, they are in a more powerful position now, with more assets to trade with and the exclusive access to it. I merely raise the question whether it'd be the best thing to put this amount of power at this time into one couple of hands.
On May 12 2012 21:36 Mongolbonjwa wrote: IPL is not "direct competitor" of MLG. Those tournaments do not run at the same time so they are not competing for viewers.
Up until now, everyone has looked to avoid conflicts with each other on an open playing field. In the future, DH, IEM and IPL have to be extra nice to make sure MLG gives you a share of their BW players.
Or if its like how MLG managed other communities, as long as you tournament does not conflict with there event then they can talk business. Although, like I said earlier, there wont be a limitless amount of days that these BW proes are available especially if you consider the likelihood that that they will eventually participate in the GSL and that the GSL pros will eventually participate in whatever OGN will name its sc2 league.
You don't exactly get my point. Up until now it was an open market. If DH wanted to invite GSL players, they talked to the teams. If their schedule allowed it, they could decide to go or not. DH could offer incentives to make that decision easier. GSL had no say in that regard.
The fact KeSPA controls their players cannot be changed anytime soon- so that has to be accepted. Maybe KeSPA doesn't put up any requirements or demands, it is entirely up to them. Again, something which we simply have to live with right now.
We are not talking about how MLG managed their own random communities. It's about weight, and how much you can bring onto the bargain table between competitors. Of course, larger organizations have a more powerful stance while negotiating with ones of smaller size. There have been, however, a few organizations that can be considered nearly equal. DH conflicted with MLG Arena. Sometimes schedules just don't align perfectly- but given their positions and sizes it made more sense for MLG and DH to make a deal out of it. Give and take.
Now it's different. MLG holds more than every other western organization- the exclusive right to BW players. Since they and KeSPA now synchronize their economical efforts. DH would not only have to accommodate KeSPA in order to get access to BW players, but also will be faced with MLG's demands. It is certainly good for MLG. It is a move every other company would also have taken. Fact of the matter is, they are in a more powerful position now, with more assets to trade with and the exclusive access to it. I merely raise the question whether it'd be the best thing to put this amount of power at this time into one couple of hands.
I would say only tournament that had anywhere near prestige was Dreamhack. MLG and Dreamhack are pretty clearly the two biggest Starcraft 2 tournaments outside of Korea and viewership represents that. MLG is clearly not going to withold there players from the events unless they conflict with theres and that pretty clearly makes MLG that biggest SC2 tournament outside of Korea.
On May 12 2012 21:36 Mongolbonjwa wrote: IPL is not "direct competitor" of MLG. Those tournaments do not run at the same time so they are not competing for viewers.
Up until now, everyone has looked to avoid conflicts with each other on an open playing field. In the future, DH, IEM and IPL have to be extra nice to make sure MLG gives you a share of their BW players.
Or if its like how MLG managed other communities, as long as you tournament does not conflict with there event then they can talk business. Although, like I said earlier, there wont be a limitless amount of days that these BW proes are available especially if you consider the likelihood that that they will eventually participate in the GSL and that the GSL pros will eventually participate in whatever OGN will name its sc2 league.
You don't exactly get my point. Up until now it was an open market. If DH wanted to invite GSL players, they talked to the teams. If their schedule allowed it, they could decide to go or not. DH could offer incentives to make that decision easier. GSL had no say in that regard.
The fact KeSPA controls their players cannot be changed anytime soon- so that has to be accepted. Maybe KeSPA doesn't put up any requirements or demands, it is entirely up to them. Again, something which we simply have to live with right now.
We are not talking about how MLG managed their own random communities. It's about weight, and how much you can bring onto the bargain table between competitors. Of course, larger organizations have a more powerful stance while negotiating with ones of smaller size. There have been, however, a few organizations that can be considered nearly equal. DH conflicted with MLG Arena. Sometimes schedules just don't align perfectly- but given their positions and sizes it made more sense for MLG and DH to make a deal out of it. Give and take.
Now it's different. MLG holds more than every other western organization- the exclusive right to BW players. Since they and KeSPA now synchronize their economical efforts. DH would not only have to accommodate KeSPA in order to get access to BW players, but also will be faced with MLG's demands. It is certainly good for MLG. It is a move every other company would also have taken. Fact of the matter is, they are in a more powerful position now, with more assets to trade with and the exclusive access to it. I merely raise the question whether it'd be the best thing to put this amount of power at this time into one couple of hands.
I would say only tournament that had anywhere near prestige was Dreamhack. MLG and Dreamhack are pretty clearly the two biggest Starcraft 2 tournaments outside of Korea and viewership represents that. MLG is clearly not going to withold there players from the events unless they conflict with theres and that pretty clearly makes MLG that biggest SC2 tournament outside of Korea.
A last time: Aynthing and everything related to BW-->SC2 will also depend on MLG's good will, not an open competition
It depends on how MLG will use their contract with KeSPA. It can be used for the better or for the worse of SC2 growth.
But one thing is sure: SC2 audience is very smart and likely to steamroll anything that goes against their slightly anarchist nerd views (PPV streams, intransparency, closeness, big corporation etc.). MLG should be very cautious how they handle their new found global power. Just one step too far and they will lose support, which will be mulitplied by the accessability of information online.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
I think you mean Blizzcon. Since regional championships are... regional. I'm not sure if a grand finals were ever held in the US.
2010 WCG Grand Finals were held in LA. Flash, Kal, and Jaedong competed, and Flash won.
That was the one where Flash saved Kal from drowning in a pool right?
On May 12 2012 21:36 Mongolbonjwa wrote: IPL is not "direct competitor" of MLG. Those tournaments do not run at the same time so they are not competing for viewers.
Up until now, everyone has looked to avoid conflicts with each other on an open playing field. In the future, DH, IEM and IPL have to be extra nice to make sure MLG gives you a share of their BW players.
Or if its like how MLG managed other communities, as long as you tournament does not conflict with there event then they can talk business. Although, like I said earlier, there wont be a limitless amount of days that these BW proes are available especially if you consider the likelihood that that they will eventually participate in the GSL and that the GSL pros will eventually participate in whatever OGN will name its sc2 league.
You don't exactly get my point. Up until now it was an open market. If DH wanted to invite GSL players, they talked to the teams. If their schedule allowed it, they could decide to go or not. DH could offer incentives to make that decision easier. GSL had no say in that regard.
The fact KeSPA controls their players cannot be changed anytime soon- so that has to be accepted. Maybe KeSPA doesn't put up any requirements or demands, it is entirely up to them. Again, something which we simply have to live with right now.
We are not talking about how MLG managed their own random communities. It's about weight, and how much you can bring onto the bargain table between competitors. Of course, larger organizations have a more powerful stance while negotiating with ones of smaller size. There have been, however, a few organizations that can be considered nearly equal. DH conflicted with MLG Arena. Sometimes schedules just don't align perfectly- but given their positions and sizes it made more sense for MLG and DH to make a deal out of it. Give and take.
Now it's different. MLG holds more than every other western organization- the exclusive right to BW players. Since they and KeSPA now synchronize their economical efforts. DH would not only have to accommodate KeSPA in order to get access to BW players, but also will be faced with MLG's demands. It is certainly good for MLG. It is a move every other company would also have taken. Fact of the matter is, they are in a more powerful position now, with more assets to trade with and the exclusive access to it. I merely raise the question whether it'd be the best thing to put this amount of power at this time into one couple of hands.
I would say only tournament that had anywhere near prestige was Dreamhack. MLG and Dreamhack are pretty clearly the two biggest Starcraft 2 tournaments outside of Korea and viewership represents that. MLG is clearly not going to withold there players from the events unless they conflict with theres and that pretty clearly makes MLG that biggest SC2 tournament outside of Korea.
A last time: Aynthing and everything related to BW-->SC2 will also depend on MLG's good will, not an open competition
Honestly, out of all the western organizations, I feel like MLG is doing the best job in not only furthering the StarCraft scene but also listening to their customers/viewers. They made their first big move when they started to bring Koreans to MLGs through the GSL partnership. Then people complained about stagnant pools. MLG created the qualifier and arena system to help bring in new blood (and if you look at players qualified for this Arena 2, it's working I'd say). MLG tried the PPV system, acknowledged that it was maybe a little too expensive and adjusted their pricing accordingly. When I look at other organizations, I can't help but feel like they're lagging behind or completely lacking. IPL invited Idra and White-Ra to IPL4 for winning IPL1 and 2 respectively, events that were held pretty much a year before IPL4. They did partner with GSL but only after Koreans in 'foreign' tournaments was an expected thing. Comparing the stream coverage between MLG and IPL, IPL was lacking (less streams, more idle/down time). NASL is sort of doing their own thing (and doing an amazing job in Season 3). Dreamhack doesn't seem to be as focused on SC2 as IPL or MLG are. Given MLG's track record, I'm optimistic about the MLG-Kespa partnership.
On May 12 2012 21:36 Mongolbonjwa wrote: IPL is not "direct competitor" of MLG. Those tournaments do not run at the same time so they are not competing for viewers.
Up until now, everyone has looked to avoid conflicts with each other on an open playing field. In the future, DH, IEM and IPL have to be extra nice to make sure MLG gives you a share of their BW players.
Or if its like how MLG managed other communities, as long as you tournament does not conflict with there event then they can talk business. Although, like I said earlier, there wont be a limitless amount of days that these BW proes are available especially if you consider the likelihood that that they will eventually participate in the GSL and that the GSL pros will eventually participate in whatever OGN will name its sc2 league.
You don't exactly get my point. Up until now it was an open market. If DH wanted to invite GSL players, they talked to the teams. If their schedule allowed it, they could decide to go or not. DH could offer incentives to make that decision easier. GSL had no say in that regard.
The fact KeSPA controls their players cannot be changed anytime soon- so that has to be accepted. Maybe KeSPA doesn't put up any requirements or demands, it is entirely up to them. Again, something which we simply have to live with right now.
We are not talking about how MLG managed their own random communities. It's about weight, and how much you can bring onto the bargain table between competitors. Of course, larger organizations have a more powerful stance while negotiating with ones of smaller size. There have been, however, a few organizations that can be considered nearly equal. DH conflicted with MLG Arena. Sometimes schedules just don't align perfectly- but given their positions and sizes it made more sense for MLG and DH to make a deal out of it. Give and take.
Now it's different. MLG holds more than every other western organization- the exclusive right to BW players. Since they and KeSPA now synchronize their economical efforts. DH would not only have to accommodate KeSPA in order to get access to BW players, but also will be faced with MLG's demands. It is certainly good for MLG. It is a move every other company would also have taken. Fact of the matter is, they are in a more powerful position now, with more assets to trade with and the exclusive access to it. I merely raise the question whether it'd be the best thing to put this amount of power at this time into one couple of hands.
I would say only tournament that had anywhere near prestige was Dreamhack. MLG and Dreamhack are pretty clearly the two biggest Starcraft 2 tournaments outside of Korea and viewership represents that. MLG is clearly not going to withold there players from the events unless they conflict with theres and that pretty clearly makes MLG that biggest SC2 tournament outside of Korea.
A last time: Aynthing and everything related to BW-->SC2 will also depend on MLG's good will, not an open competition
I can not see MLG blue balling other tournaments with good will or without it because everyone is forgetting one thing and thats that KESPA wants to go to foreign events. If MLG starts or tries to isolate KESPA players solely to there events and forsakes all other ones, do you really think KESPA is just going to accept that?
On May 13 2012 04:44 Dakure wrote: Honestly, out of all the western organizations, I feel like MLG is doing the best job in not only furthering the StarCraft scene but also listening to their customers/viewers. They made their first big move when they started to bring Koreans to MLGs through the GSL partnership. Then people complained about stagnant pools. MLG created the qualifier and arena system to help bring in new blood (and if you look at players qualified for this Arena 2, it's working I'd say). MLG tried the PPV system, acknowledged that it was maybe a little too expensive and adjusted their pricing accordingly. When I look at other organizations, I can't help but feel like they're lagging behind or completely lacking. IPL invited Idra and White-Ra to IPL4 for winning IPL1 and 2 respectively, events that were held pretty much a year before IPL4. They did partner with GSL but only after Koreans in 'foreign' tournaments was an expected thing. Comparing the stream coverage between MLG and IPL, IPL was lacking (less streams, more idle/down time). NASL is sort of doing their own thing (and doing an amazing job in Season 3). Dreamhack doesn't seem to be as focused on SC2 as IPL or MLG are. Given MLG's track record, I'm optimistic about the MLG-Kespa partnership.
On May 13 2012 04:49 Adreme wrote: I can not see MLG blue balling other tournaments with good will or without it because everyone is forgetting one thing and thats that KESPA wants to go to foreign events. If MLG starts or tries to isolate KESPA players solely to there events and forsakes all other ones, do you really think KESPA is just going to accept that?
I am not doubting MLG's intentions nor abilities. As I am fairly unfamiliar with the KR BW industry, I will also withhold any judgment on KeSPA until further actions within the SC2 space. Given MLG's track record I don't doubt the realistic possibility of success of this relationship and any further positive stimuli that could derive from it, especially in regards of "opening up" the BW space.
But I don't understand how one can not at least acknowledge the risk of putting a monopoly into a company's hand. It's like saying "in the future, every car company has to buy motor parts from one supplier". I feel this certainly is a valid concern, no matter how good your intentions. No I don't believe MLG will suddenly go crazy and start being a dick to everyone. But it is an undeniable fact that their position within negotiations is fundamentally strengthened. Things they might have not been able to ask for in the past are now more likely to be obtained.
Let's say the organizers have learned from last year and now talk to each other about their schedule for the upcoming 6 months well ahead of time, to be able to avoid major conflicts. If two events happen to clash, they try to resolve it. Naturally, one event has to move- which one is open for negotiation. It is exactly all the little and big things, every time there is an issue to solve. Even without ill-intent, MLG would always have inherently more leverage against other organizations. They wouldn't need to press their agenda, they can nudge it little by little. How would you draw the line between smart business and hurting competition? How can that not be a fundamental problem for an industry?
I am aware that KeSPA might have pressed for such exclusivity- for the beginning. It helps them lower their risks and allows possible future alterations to be made much more safely. If seen this way, MLG steps in to "ease the transition". That would be the best case, and not entirely unlikely. As with any case, there also is the opposite extreme. Which would be KeSPA exporting their hereditary business practices overseas, with a like-minded ally.
As both scenarios are ends of the spectrum, I do hope it goes well overall and my concerns turn out obsolete. But at least I wanted not to indiscriminatingly chime into the kumbaya.
On May 11 2012 15:08 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [marking the first time in eSports history that KeSPA players will participate in video game tournaments in the United States.
...WCG?
I think you mean Blizzcon. Since regional championships are... regional. I'm not sure if a grand finals were ever held in the US.
2010 WCG Grand Finals were held in LA. Flash, Kal, and Jaedong competed, and Flash won.
That was the one where Flash saved Kal from drowning in a pool right?
this is awesome, I'm excited to see who all shows up especially after seeing that FlaSh FPVOD and hearing that he's going allin on SC2 atm in a recent interview
On May 12 2012 13:56 zaii wrote: Let me quote this martyr from Reddit
People are getting all up in arms about the exclusive agreement between MLG and KeSPA saying that it hurts eSports because KeSPA players will only be at MLG/KeSPA events. KeSPA, as an organization, has a long history of shutting out ALL outsiders. They made it pretty impossible for foreigners to compete in their events and would NEVER send any of their players overseas. They are an organization that keeps a very tight hold on their players. They control EVERYTHING. They control the players. The teams. The events. Everything. People are all upset that KeSPA players aren't going to be at IPL, Dreamhack, etc. because of this agreement. These people have no reason to be mad. The fact that MLG has made a deal with KeSPA to send their players overseas is FUCKING HUGE. It is such a big step for KeSPA - this is BY FAR the most amicable I have ever seen them. It is not like if this deal didn't happen, KeSPA would allow their players to travel freely. No. Hell no, that would not happen. They probably would stay in Korea like they always have. Obviously the playing field is different in SC2 than it was in BW in that they NEED global exposure to survive. But KeSPA is all about CONTROL. So if not MLG, they would have probably signed a deal with someone else.
Ppl open your eyes this is a huge step for Kespa to be more open, and At the moment MLG seems to be the only one with enough goodies to make Kespa an offer they can't refuse.
I don't remember kespa "making it impossible for foreigners to compete in their events", foreigners just weren't good enough. This redditor is clueless about that. Anyone can try to win the courage, it's not koreans only.
It's more bullshit from SC2 players who don't know anything about the history of BW. Every event there was a reason to send players, Kespa sent players. Blizzcon, WWI, WCG, etc. There were no foreign events for them to shun. I don't know how people like that can continually try to pass off their BS as fact
Totally agree! People like to bash KeSPA for some of the things they have done, but saying they do not allowing their players to participate in foreign tournaments is a ridiculous statement, as there were no tournaments outside korea apart from the ones you mentioned. And the thing about not letting anyone outside participate in their tournaments? What's up with that bullshit? Go to korea, go through Courage and you are free to to join any preliminaries you want. But because there have been no non koreans in MSL and OSL for the last decade people assume this is because of some kind of restriction... It's like all the new people have a hard time grasping the vast difference between the korean pros and the rest of the world... The gap was insane
Agreed. KeSPA being no foreigner organization is a huge misconception these days. One of the most noticeable American players (Idra) competed in KeSPA tournaments. In fact, he didn't even have to participate in the Courage tournament, a team seeked him out (similar to given a Code S Seed).
They never tried to expand outside of South Korea because there was no where to really expand to.
1) Cool news! Flash at MLGs! 2) Exclusive?! Wait a minute. Walks like a duck; Talks like a duck... 3) I guess it's ok. As long as not all the players joining Kespa. and I have faith in Sundance.
EPT
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