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Confirmed BW Progamers race transition - Page 13

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 11 12 13 14 15 Next All
Schmoooopy
Profile Joined July 2011
United States448 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-11 04:09:29
May 11 2012 04:08 GMT
#241
Any idea about Fantasy yet?

EDIT: Sorry, didn't read correctly ;_;
peekn
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1152 Posts
May 11 2012 04:11 GMT
#242
Terran going to get another huge influx of skill, at least we got FBH and Jangbi

I really, really hope that the BW pros are going to crush the current competition.
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-11 04:20:10
May 11 2012 04:12 GMT
#243
On May 11 2012 12:35 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
zvz doesn't go past 1 base, sometimes 2 if both people 12 hatch.

zvt terran sticks to 2 base mnm for pretty much the whole game, zerg takes third when his lair tech units are out and fourth gas when he has defilers.

zvp protoss forge fes, zerg double expands, toss will get a third when he can defend it vs fast mutas or mass hydras (around 10-11 minutes), zerg expands again when he feels safe

tvp toss generally tries to take a quick third, terran tries to punish with 2 base timing, but i don't really understand any non Z matchups

pvp generally one base or someone defending their fast expo vs fast reaver or dt

tvt fuck if i know but it's not fast 3 bases


if this is accurate BW then like everything ive ever heard about BW is false


Show nested quote +
Wow 2-3 years flash said. Must be a shock to find they will basically be giving up playing bw by fall.


2-3 years to get back to the same level of skillin SC2 they have in BW, theyll be competitive in SC2 within a year


There is a lot of mis-information about BW.

Also TvP is often 1 Rax FE, Siege Expand, FD (fake double), or 5 marine fact (no addon) expand, then depending on what you scout throw down an ebay, or another fact, and go light pressure off 2 fact with a few vultures (while tanks are defending nat) while getting a 3rd. You sometimes see 3rds off 1 fact but its very greedy, above 2 fact often results in a timing attack unless Terran has scanned Protoss with a lot of gateways.

3 base 2-1 timing attack to get map-control for 4th is usually the main goal. Sometimes you will see Flash get a 3rd, and a proxy 4th at the same time, or slam down 2 more facts and go some crazy timing, that's why hes so deadly. He's brilliant at cheese and late-late game, which gives him huge leverage in terms of mind-games. He's the Tom Dwan of BW.


On May 11 2012 13:06 NotSorry wrote:
Now if only we could get any of them to stream Sc2 or BW


There are BW re-streams of Hiya or Savior up on the side-panel sometimes. Look up ShowMeTheMSL on youtube.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
May 11 2012 04:40 GMT
#244
On May 11 2012 13:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 12:35 Forikorder wrote:
zvz doesn't go past 1 base, sometimes 2 if both people 12 hatch.

zvt terran sticks to 2 base mnm for pretty much the whole game, zerg takes third when his lair tech units are out and fourth gas when he has defilers.

zvp protoss forge fes, zerg double expands, toss will get a third when he can defend it vs fast mutas or mass hydras (around 10-11 minutes), zerg expands again when he feels safe

tvp toss generally tries to take a quick third, terran tries to punish with 2 base timing, but i don't really understand any non Z matchups

pvp generally one base or someone defending their fast expo vs fast reaver or dt

tvt fuck if i know but it's not fast 3 bases


if this is accurate BW then like everything ive ever heard about BW is false


Wow 2-3 years flash said. Must be a shock to find they will basically be giving up playing bw by fall.


2-3 years to get back to the same level of skillin SC2 they have in BW, theyll be competitive in SC2 within a year


There is a lot of mis-information about BW.

Also TvP is often 1 Rax FE, Siege Expand, FD (fake double), or 5 marine fact (no addon) expand, then depending on what you scout throw down an ebay, or another fact, and go light pressure off 2 fact with a few vultures (while tanks are defending nat) while getting a 3rd. You sometimes see 3rds off 1 fact but its very greedy, above 2 fact often results in a timing attack unless Terran has scanned Protoss with a lot of gateways.

3 base 2-1 timing attack to get map-control for 4th is usually the main goal. Sometimes you will see Flash get a 3rd, and a proxy 4th at the same time, or slam down 2 more facts and go some crazy timing, that's why hes so deadly. He's brilliant at cheese and late-late game, which gives him huge leverage in terms of mind-games. He's the Tom Dwan of BW.


Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 13:06 NotSorry wrote:
Now if only we could get any of them to stream Sc2 or BW


There are BW re-streams of Hiya or Savior up on the side-panel sometimes. Look up ShowMeTheMSL on youtube.


i thought things like 5fac timings were still popular vs fast third... to be fair i zone out pretty hard if it's a non-Z matchup in proleague and the last few tvps i remember seeing in osl weren't really standard lol
NET
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States703 Posts
May 11 2012 04:46 GMT
#245
Yes FBH is Protoss! So much win!

Bisu stuck with the right race. The Dark Templar master remains.
"Dark Templar are the saviors of the Protoss Race." -Artosis
sCCrooked
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1306 Posts
May 11 2012 04:47 GMT
#246
On May 11 2012 13:40 rauk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 13:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:
On May 11 2012 12:35 Forikorder wrote:
zvz doesn't go past 1 base, sometimes 2 if both people 12 hatch.

zvt terran sticks to 2 base mnm for pretty much the whole game, zerg takes third when his lair tech units are out and fourth gas when he has defilers.

zvp protoss forge fes, zerg double expands, toss will get a third when he can defend it vs fast mutas or mass hydras (around 10-11 minutes), zerg expands again when he feels safe

tvp toss generally tries to take a quick third, terran tries to punish with 2 base timing, but i don't really understand any non Z matchups

pvp generally one base or someone defending their fast expo vs fast reaver or dt

tvt fuck if i know but it's not fast 3 bases


if this is accurate BW then like everything ive ever heard about BW is false


Wow 2-3 years flash said. Must be a shock to find they will basically be giving up playing bw by fall.


2-3 years to get back to the same level of skillin SC2 they have in BW, theyll be competitive in SC2 within a year


There is a lot of mis-information about BW.

Also TvP is often 1 Rax FE, Siege Expand, FD (fake double), or 5 marine fact (no addon) expand, then depending on what you scout throw down an ebay, or another fact, and go light pressure off 2 fact with a few vultures (while tanks are defending nat) while getting a 3rd. You sometimes see 3rds off 1 fact but its very greedy, above 2 fact often results in a timing attack unless Terran has scanned Protoss with a lot of gateways.

3 base 2-1 timing attack to get map-control for 4th is usually the main goal. Sometimes you will see Flash get a 3rd, and a proxy 4th at the same time, or slam down 2 more facts and go some crazy timing, that's why hes so deadly. He's brilliant at cheese and late-late game, which gives him huge leverage in terms of mind-games. He's the Tom Dwan of BW.


On May 11 2012 13:06 NotSorry wrote:
Now if only we could get any of them to stream Sc2 or BW


There are BW re-streams of Hiya or Savior up on the side-panel sometimes. Look up ShowMeTheMSL on youtube.


i thought things like 5fac timings were still popular vs fast third... to be fair i zone out pretty hard if it's a non-Z matchup in proleague and the last few tvps i remember seeing in osl weren't really standard lol


That's because in pretty much every match-up except ZvZ and ZvT (not TvZ because TvZ was changing but Z's side was not) the metagame was still very much evolving. That evolution of gameplay has now been cut off forever.
Enlightened in an age of anti-intellectualism and quotidian repetitiveness of asinine assumptive thinking. Best lycan guide evar --> "Fixing solo queue all pick one game at a time." ~KwarK-
Jisall
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2054 Posts
May 11 2012 04:58 GMT
#247
On May 11 2012 13:46 NET wrote:
Yes FBH is Protoss! So much win!

Bisu stuck with the right race. The Dark Templar master remains.


Inca might fight him for that title.
Monk: Because being a badass is more fun then playing a dude wearing a scarf.. ... Ite fuck it, Witch Doctor cuz I like killing stuff in a timely mannor.
imanoobcs
Profile Joined January 2012
184 Posts
May 11 2012 04:59 GMT
#248
On May 11 2012 03:35 Leth0 wrote:
As a self hating zerg I agree with the BW assesment of zerg's weakness =P


Haha I noticed this when reading the article, and to see someone say exactly what I was thinking is awesome.
Zerg.Zilla
Profile Joined February 2012
Hungary5029 Posts
May 11 2012 05:18 GMT
#249
On May 11 2012 13:11 peekn wrote:
Terran going to get another huge influx of skill, at least we got FBH and Jangbi

I really, really hope that the BW pros are going to crush the current competition.

I wouldn't bet on it.
Don't underestimate the sc2 pros bro...
(•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) ~Keep calm and inject Larva~
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-11 05:29:01
May 11 2012 05:26 GMT
#250
On May 11 2012 13:40 rauk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 13:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:
On May 11 2012 12:35 Forikorder wrote:
zvz doesn't go past 1 base, sometimes 2 if both people 12 hatch.

zvt terran sticks to 2 base mnm for pretty much the whole game, zerg takes third when his lair tech units are out and fourth gas when he has defilers.

zvp protoss forge fes, zerg double expands, toss will get a third when he can defend it vs fast mutas or mass hydras (around 10-11 minutes), zerg expands again when he feels safe

tvp toss generally tries to take a quick third, terran tries to punish with 2 base timing, but i don't really understand any non Z matchups

pvp generally one base or someone defending their fast expo vs fast reaver or dt

tvt fuck if i know but it's not fast 3 bases


if this is accurate BW then like everything ive ever heard about BW is false


Wow 2-3 years flash said. Must be a shock to find they will basically be giving up playing bw by fall.


2-3 years to get back to the same level of skillin SC2 they have in BW, theyll be competitive in SC2 within a year


There is a lot of mis-information about BW.

Also TvP is often 1 Rax FE, Siege Expand, FD (fake double), or 5 marine fact (no addon) expand, then depending on what you scout throw down an ebay, or another fact, and go light pressure off 2 fact with a few vultures (while tanks are defending nat) while getting a 3rd. You sometimes see 3rds off 1 fact but its very greedy, above 2 fact often results in a timing attack unless Terran has scanned Protoss with a lot of gateways.

3 base 2-1 timing attack to get map-control for 4th is usually the main goal. Sometimes you will see Flash get a 3rd, and a proxy 4th at the same time, or slam down 2 more facts and go some crazy timing, that's why hes so deadly. He's brilliant at cheese and late-late game, which gives him huge leverage in terms of mind-games. He's the Tom Dwan of BW.


On May 11 2012 13:06 NotSorry wrote:
Now if only we could get any of them to stream Sc2 or BW


There are BW re-streams of Hiya or Savior up on the side-panel sometimes. Look up ShowMeTheMSL on youtube.


i thought things like 5fac timings were still popular vs fast third... to be fair i zone out pretty hard if it's a non-Z matchup in proleague and the last few tvps i remember seeing in osl weren't really standard lol


In simplistic terms

Flash build > Protoss delayed 3rd Base > 4 Fact > 2/3 Base Tech > Oov Build/Fact CC Fact > Rapid Expanding Protoss > Flash Build

With the advances in PvT throughout 2007 and 2008 the only reliable playstyle came to be that of Flash, who singlehandedly upheld the Terran race with his fast upgrade, mass expand builds. However, by the beginning of 2009, weaknesses were shown in this style, most notably by Bisu who combined early timing attacks with quick third and fourth bases to retain the economical advantage. In order for Terrans to retain their edge in the matchup there needed to be a viable alternative to this that wasn't a timing push, for Protoss players had grown extremely adept at blocking those.


I presume that at the time the Flash build must have been popular so Protoss were going 2 base arbiter double expands to compensate, resulting in Terran going 4-5 fact until Protoss figured how to properly time their expansions to defend against that. Or there were a lot of 12 nexus's in which the common response is bunker rush into 4 fact.


On May 11 2012 13:58 Jisall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 13:46 NET wrote:
Yes FBH is Protoss! So much win!

Bisu stuck with the right race. The Dark Templar master remains.


Inca might fight him for that title.


Don't count on it

Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
Advocado
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Denmark994 Posts
May 11 2012 05:35 GMT
#251
Team 8 Coach Han Sang-Yong states: No players in our team changed races. However, we are still keeping it into a consideration because the Zerg players are having a lot of trouble. ***** This has been stated from many players and coaches all over the BW teams that BW zerg players are having a hard time in SCII.


Well. That wasnt something I was expecting from the mechanically superior BW zergs. I guess their making hydras ^^
http://www.twitch.tv/advocadosc2
dronefarm
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States260 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-11 05:52:29
May 11 2012 05:51 GMT
#252
On May 11 2012 14:35 Advocado wrote:
Show nested quote +
Team 8 Coach Han Sang-Yong states: No players in our team changed races. However, we are still keeping it into a consideration because the Zerg players are having a lot of trouble. ***** This has been stated from many players and coaches all over the BW teams that BW zerg players are having a hard time in SCII.


Well. That wasnt something I was expecting from the mechanically superior BW zergs. I guess their making hydras ^^


I think it's just that the race doesn't feel very good. I don't know how to really put it into words, but it just doesn't feel like you can really leverage your multitask or superior speed or cool builds because the most profitable way to play is quickly invest in a lategame army and a lot of bases; you kind of just go for BL/infestor and crawl forward. It really is a totally different race in SC2, and I think a lot of the players who enjoyed playing zerg in BW aren't going to enjoy it as much in SC2.
If you can chill, chill
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
May 11 2012 05:52 GMT
#253
On May 11 2012 14:51 dronefarm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 14:35 Advocado wrote:
Team 8 Coach Han Sang-Yong states: No players in our team changed races. However, we are still keeping it into a consideration because the Zerg players are having a lot of trouble. ***** This has been stated from many players and coaches all over the BW teams that BW zerg players are having a hard time in SCII.


Well. That wasnt something I was expecting from the mechanically superior BW zergs. I guess their making hydras ^^


I think it's just that the race doesn't feel very good. I don't know how to really put it into words, but it just doesn't feel like you can really leverage your multitask or superior speed or cool builds because the most profitable way to play is quickly invest in a lategame army and a lot of bases; you kind of just go for BL/infestor and crawl forward. It really is a totally different race in SC2, and I think a lot of the players who enjoyed playing zerg in BW aren't going to enjoy it as much in SC2.

if only muta/ling was still possible
awwnuts07
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States621 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-11 06:06:12
May 11 2012 06:05 GMT
#254
On May 11 2012 03:28 OpTicalRH wrote:


SKT1 coach Park Yong Woon states: Our team has tried playing different races in SCII but since it was very hard to adapt I have asked to keep the original races. All of SKT1 players chose to play the same race as in BW.


Whew! I was afraid Bisu was gonna switch to Terran there for a sec.

Can't wait to see what these guys can do after 6 months of hardcore practice.
I'm a noob
Alvalanker
Profile Joined July 2011
United States253 Posts
May 11 2012 06:06 GMT
#255
On May 11 2012 03:33 Nagano wrote:
Expect HOTS to completely change Zerg's strength, with what vipers and swarm hosts and all the upgrades. These guys should just stick with what they're comfortable with rather than what they perceive now to be imbalance.

Blizzard has already said Zerg won't be made any more "powerful" than the other races in HotS.
The fragile art of existence is kept alive by sheer persistence.
Incanus
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada695 Posts
May 11 2012 06:07 GMT
#256
On May 11 2012 11:25 Falling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 03:34 OpTicalRH wrote:
Yeah, many all of existing BW players are complaining about Zerg + Show Spoiler +
imbalances
, poor Jaedong :/

Well if you were used to muta micro and lurker-ling-dark swarm hopping, hydra storm dodging, and scourge micro, SC2 is going to be a pretty big shock to the system.

Well said. The amount of BW ignorance here is impressive. Zerg in BW looks similar to SC2, but in fact the playstyle and feeling is nothing alike.
Flash: "Why am I so good?" *sob sob*
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
May 11 2012 06:07 GMT
#257
Flash so modest. I'm starting to love this guy (Pile on the BW Noob hate here). Realistically, 3 months to catch up on level, a year to dominate, and to consider himself a master 2-3 years.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
May 11 2012 06:11 GMT
#258
On May 11 2012 15:06 Alvalanker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 03:33 Nagano wrote:
Expect HOTS to completely change Zerg's strength, with what vipers and swarm hosts and all the upgrades. These guys should just stick with what they're comfortable with rather than what they perceive now to be imbalance.

Blizzard has already said Zerg won't be made any more "powerful" than the other races in HotS.


They probably also intended for Terran to not be too powerful at the release of WoL.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
May 11 2012 06:14 GMT
#259
On May 11 2012 15:07 Incanus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2012 11:25 Falling wrote:
On May 11 2012 03:34 OpTicalRH wrote:
Yeah, many all of existing BW players are complaining about Zerg + Show Spoiler +
imbalances
, poor Jaedong :/

Well if you were used to muta micro and lurker-ling-dark swarm hopping, hydra storm dodging, and scourge micro, SC2 is going to be a pretty big shock to the system.

Well said. The amount of BW ignorance here is impressive. Zerg in BW looks similar to SC2, but in fact the playstyle and feeling is nothing alike.


To be honest, many times SC2 Zerg looks like SK Terran. Constantly mobile low tier units supported by some sci vessel/infestors depending on tempo and mass engagements to break down the opponents. They even rush for Tanks/Broods specifically to break defensive turtling.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
Acechi
Profile Joined December 2009
United States50 Posts
May 11 2012 06:36 GMT
#260
Any news from TossGirl?
All in all the time
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