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On May 04 2012 16:59 Liquid`TLO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 16:14 Tsubbi wrote:
very disappointed they revert a change after 24 hours without even giving a statement, especially since the new way of testing is available to way more people than on ptr
the idea of having more creep early is very intersting and could be implemented in other ways too if 50 energy queens is regarded as too powerful, this queen range increasement on the other hand seems dull and won't even help significantly against "early allins and timing attacks" they were trying to buff zerg against well the energy boost was just insane, I could have shown that within 30 minutes of testing. On the other hand increasing range from 3 to 5 is pretty neat and quite a huge change. It'll make it much easier to defend allins. Small changes lead to significant differences. The favour of battles in sc2 shift incredibely quick and killing 1 more marine in an all-in situation can make the difference between defeat or victory.
Have to agree, I like these new changes a lot more - doesn't make it ridiculously imba but makes it easier to defend with queens.
I think this primarily helps vs hellions which is very nice.
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On May 04 2012 17:03 Audio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 16:24 Whitewing wrote:On May 04 2012 16:14 Tsubbi wrote:
very disappointed they revert a change after 24 hours without even giving a statement, especially since the new way of testing is available to way more people than on ptr
the idea of having more creep early is very intersting and could be implemented in other ways too if 50 energy queens is regarded as too powerful, this queen range increasement on the other hand seems dull and won't even help significantly against "early allins and timing attacks" they were trying to buff zerg against The overlord speed buff making scouting a little easier is a buff against that too. And greater range queens is a really big deal, it can sit up ramps and hit enemies all the way down the ramp now, and can more easily be controlled for more effectiveness. It just means hellions will be easy to zone out now, and taking a third against a hellion opening will be easier then the +25 energy change.
No, it's harder to get a 3rd than with the extra creep tumors. But the extra tumors were just ridiculous.
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On May 04 2012 16:59 Liquid`TLO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 16:14 Tsubbi wrote:
very disappointed they revert a change after 24 hours without even giving a statement, especially since the new way of testing is available to way more people than on ptr
the idea of having more creep early is very intersting and could be implemented in other ways too if 50 energy queens is regarded as too powerful, this queen range increasement on the other hand seems dull and won't even help significantly against "early allins and timing attacks" they were trying to buff zerg against well the energy boost was just insane, I could have shown that within 30 minutes of testing. On the other hand increasing range from 3 to 5 is pretty neat and quite a huge change. It'll make it much easier to defend allins. Small changes lead to significant differences. The favour of battles in sc2 shift incredibely quick and killing 1 more marine in an all-in situation can make the difference between defeat or victory.
yes ofc it will help you're right
i just don't like design philosophy changes in 24 hours, i mean their idea must have been to strengthen zerg early defense by giving easier access to creep very early in the game
the 50 energy queens has many side effects as it isn't limited to your first 2 queens, makes transfuse way stronger etcetc, so they could've tweaked their implementation by increasing transfusion cost or allowing new hatcheries to build 1 creep tumor for example
it just seems so unstable from a designer to scrap their idea in such a short time and do something completely different is what i'm trying to say 
(also i love your beard)
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On May 03 2012 14:18 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 14:09 ContrailNZ wrote:On May 03 2012 14:07 xrapture wrote:
won't this make the 200/200 max roach stephano style hit even faster?
forgo 2nd queen for 3 more drones, use 2nd queen to inject 2nd and 3rd base.
i don't think that style needed a buff... The funny thing is that 2 base protoss all in still don't hit fast enough to counter Stephano's current 3 base mass roach timing. Imagine when he can get drones or units a little sooner and not have to worry about protoss air. Zerg only loss to Protoss if they get in horrible positioning fights or if they get caught off gaurd over droning vs an allin. Hero vs Leenock MC vs Nestea Basically every zerg eliminated by a protoss this season, would like a word with you about protoss not being able to beat it. Just because you cant beat it, doesnt mean it cant be beaten.
2 zergs is hardly a big enough sample pool to say if something is balanced or not.
While i can't comment on hero v. leenock since i didn't watch it. I feel nestea losing had more to do with the fact that his play didn't seem all that impressive overall tbh.
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Hmm.. I dunno about the new queen change. I felt increasing energy to 35 felt like a more interesting option and I think the queen range reduces options for Terrans to pressure and could make all games end up being a really dull 10 minutes where the only things which get killed are either hellions, zerglings or creep tumors.
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these changes are retarded. now Zerg will be able to get a full scout of Toss at any point in the game, while the queen range buff will make probe scouts against zerg impossible. So now Zerg will be able to scout everything, will toss is in the blind.
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On May 04 2012 17:35 sc2holar wrote:
these changes are retarded. now Zerg will be able to get a full scout of Toss at any point in the game, while the queen range buff will make probe scouts against zerg impossible. So now Zerg will be able to scout everything, will toss is in the blind.
yeah protoss is definitely getting the short end of the stick here, most UP race by far
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Just saying its gonna have a huge impact on PVZ and probably force toss into fast robo in every game.
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yeah, as expected, the energy change does not go through. Queens with 5range? I like it, gives you the extra hits on hellions, allows you to push out with queens on creep and possibly even very short distances off creep, to defend it's spreading --> more creep for more micro (instead of the original intended, more creep for less queens).
I like it!
Ultimate Zerg Range army incoming: 4range roaches, 5range queens, 6range hydras! gogogo!
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so basicly they want to remove any chance of helion denying creeps? quins with same range as hellions, srsly way to go blizz.
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They want to give Zerg the best scouting and map controll awareness while at the same time taking away the other races ability to scout/poke Zerg in the early game, giving zerg a huge read-advantage going into the midgame.
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No, it's harder to get a 3rd than with the extra creep tumors.
senseless.
But every early timing attack is not longer viable because of this extra creep. and this extra creep is MASSIVE!
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On May 04 2012 17:40 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 17:35 sc2holar wrote:
these changes are retarded. now Zerg will be able to get a full scout of Toss at any point in the game, while the queen range buff will make probe scouts against zerg impossible. So now Zerg will be able to scout everything, will toss is in the blind. yeah protoss is definitely getting the short end of the stick here, most UP race by far
Oh yes, protoss are having a really tough time right now.
Any changes that reduces the effectiveness of cheeses or early rushes is good imo.
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On May 04 2012 18:03 Ryps wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 17:40 Laurens wrote:On May 04 2012 17:35 sc2holar wrote:
these changes are retarded. now Zerg will be able to get a full scout of Toss at any point in the game, while the queen range buff will make probe scouts against zerg impossible. So now Zerg will be able to scout everything, will toss is in the blind. yeah protoss is definitely getting the short end of the stick here, most UP race by far Oh yes, protoss are having a really tough time right now. Any changes that reduces the effectiveness of cheeses or early rushes is good imo.
So just because protoss are doing well against terrans in GSL this season, denying protoss from scouting zerg in the early game completley is a good idea?
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On May 04 2012 17:59 Peqqz wrote:senseless. But every early timing attack is not longer viable because of this extra creep. and this extra creep is MASSIVE!
There is no early timing attack. There is a bunch of allins, that now have to be played a bit more systematical, because a good creeper might get his tumors off a tiny bit earlier and have a tiny bit more creep.
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United States7483 Posts
On May 04 2012 18:03 Ryps wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 17:40 Laurens wrote:On May 04 2012 17:35 sc2holar wrote:
these changes are retarded. now Zerg will be able to get a full scout of Toss at any point in the game, while the queen range buff will make probe scouts against zerg impossible. So now Zerg will be able to scout everything, will toss is in the blind. yeah protoss is definitely getting the short end of the stick here, most UP race by far Oh yes, protoss are having a really tough time right now. Any changes that reduces the effectiveness of cheeses or early rushes is good imo.
Cheeses yes, early rushes... depends on how you define early. Right now, zergs skirt the razor's edge of being just greedy enough to get a huge lead and not die as their entire playstyle. Every time you make it easier for them to survive, it's going to let them be just a tad bit greedier. This is worrisome.
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On May 04 2012 18:07 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 18:03 Ryps wrote:On May 04 2012 17:40 Laurens wrote:On May 04 2012 17:35 sc2holar wrote:
these changes are retarded. now Zerg will be able to get a full scout of Toss at any point in the game, while the queen range buff will make probe scouts against zerg impossible. So now Zerg will be able to scout everything, will toss is in the blind. yeah protoss is definitely getting the short end of the stick here, most UP race by far Oh yes, protoss are having a really tough time right now. Any changes that reduces the effectiveness of cheeses or early rushes is good imo. So just because protoss are doing well against terrans in GSL this season, denying protoss from scouting zerg in the early game completley is a good idea?
You realize toss is doing very well against zergs in GSL to right?
I like the queen change to 5 range and overlord speed, should be interesting to see if they keep it or not though.
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It makes no sense to say that "we want to give the other races (than terran) better early game scouting and then completley destroy protoss ability to scout a Zerg in the early game once a queen is up.
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On May 04 2012 17:20 Tsubbi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 16:59 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 04 2012 16:14 Tsubbi wrote:
very disappointed they revert a change after 24 hours without even giving a statement, especially since the new way of testing is available to way more people than on ptr
the idea of having more creep early is very intersting and could be implemented in other ways too if 50 energy queens is regarded as too powerful, this queen range increasement on the other hand seems dull and won't even help significantly against "early allins and timing attacks" they were trying to buff zerg against well the energy boost was just insane, I could have shown that within 30 minutes of testing. On the other hand increasing range from 3 to 5 is pretty neat and quite a huge change. It'll make it much easier to defend allins. Small changes lead to significant differences. The favour of battles in sc2 shift incredibely quick and killing 1 more marine in an all-in situation can make the difference between defeat or victory. it just seems so unstable from a designer to scrap their idea in such a short time and do something completely different is what i'm trying to say
They're not scrapping it, they're testing it as a potential solution to a perceived problem. if they saw some glaring problem within the first day of testing, what's the point of keeping it in its current form? And I wouldn't argue that they're now trying something completely different. A queen range buff is similar to the energy buff in that it will mostly affect early game scenarios involving zerg defence.
It's not like they said "queen energy was too much, let's give ultras laser beams and make hydras fart rainbows" 
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On May 04 2012 18:09 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 18:07 sc2holar wrote:On May 04 2012 18:03 Ryps wrote:On May 04 2012 17:40 Laurens wrote:On May 04 2012 17:35 sc2holar wrote:
these changes are retarded. now Zerg will be able to get a full scout of Toss at any point in the game, while the queen range buff will make probe scouts against zerg impossible. So now Zerg will be able to scout everything, will toss is in the blind. yeah protoss is definitely getting the short end of the stick here, most UP race by far Oh yes, protoss are having a really tough time right now. Any changes that reduces the effectiveness of cheeses or early rushes is good imo. So just because protoss are doing well against terrans in GSL this season, denying protoss from scouting zerg in the early game completley is a good idea? You realize toss is doing very well against zergs in GSL to right? I like the queen change to 5 range and overlord speed, should be interesting to see if they keep it or not though.
GSL results has nothing to do with this issue. in PvZ zerg already had the advantage in early game scouting, now its going to give them a window where protoss cant scout at all while at the same time allowing them to be more greedy.
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EPT
