Yep, Red Bull is going for it Gonna be a 16-man invitational called "Battlegrounds" with a total prizepool of 41k$ to be held on 26th-27th May in Austin City.
Red Bull further cemented their brand movement into the competitive StarCraft 2 scene with their announcement of a $41,000, 16-player invitational tournament to be held at Austin City Limits Live May 26th-27th. Dubbed the "Red Bull Battlegrounds", Sean "Day[9]" Plott will commentate the event, together with Marcus "djWHEAT" Graham, Mike "Husky" Lamond and Rob Simpson. Red Bull revealed the first two invited players today: recent Lone Star Clash champion Ilyes 'Stephano' Satouri and Korean Protoss Won 'PartinG' Lee Sak. The 14 remaining players will be invited in the weeks leading up to the event.
Picture of the Location. 1.500 seats, already set up for live streaming. Source: ACL-Live.com (Looks amazing!!! :D)
Personally I think this is amazing, because the Red Bull Lans always had sick production value.
Nice! Let's hope they can make it into a quality tournament deserving of such high caliber players, I really like the caster side they have picked K[9] and Rob Simpson, OH YES!
Red Bull production + Day[9] back in casting makes me very happy about this event. Invite only means we should have some really high-quality games, pretty excited. Not sure if they have it anywhere yet, but I can't see it; stream is going to be free? Just SQ?
On April 25 2012 02:54 Bunraku wrote: Such a large prizepool for an invitational tournament.. That sucks. Invitationals sucks.
Welcome to TL! Not the nicest of first posts, but yeah... I really think this is dumb. No doubt that the tournament will be awesome and great fun to watch, I'd hope that a tournament with Day9 so keenly involved would be smarter. Shave 5k off of the prize pool and run online regional qualifiers.
Mhm thats atleast how we in germany write big numbers changed it to this k thingy
Don't try to talk to people using imperial measures, it's not worth the try Back to topic: very nice, another tourney with a decent price pool. The more the better! I just hope it doesn't collide with another event, does anyone know?
Will this one stand as a true invitational that invites promising and good players, or will it fall with the other bunch of invites-tournaments that'll take 4-5-6 spots to invite popular (but bad) players just to get more views/interest in it?
Because rob simpson is a boss. No but really he is a really light hearted fun entertaining guy to listen to and i personally think he is a good caster.
Nice to hear Redbull seriously getting into E-sports.
By the way: offline event? Ohh, i just realized i interperted that in the wrong way...i see what you mean now.
This event has the makings of an excellent tournament. I enjoy invite tourneys because the players there almost always deserve it, and with a prize pool that substantial, there are definitely going to be high quality games.
On April 25 2012 03:04 Pjorren wrote: This is going to be absolutely sick. Austin city is east coast right?
its gonna be most of the people from redbull orlando + bomber + some fan favorites . wish they would just release all the invites, really nice prize pool though
Looking forward to it. I have kinda hoped though that Red Bull start their own Competition series like MLG, IPL, Dreamhack, Assembly, etc., but maybe an Invitational is the next natural step from their training lans. At least it's not an 8 man invitational, cause those are just stupid imo.
Don't mind that it's a invitational, as long as they invite players from multiple tournaments and some wild cards. As long it's not a damn 8man invitational that makes 0 sense with PPV model... Good think that it's a crowd so the feeling isn't robbed.
Any news on the steaming for this event? Free SQ, pay for HQ? FPS 25,30,60?
On April 25 2012 04:15 Tobblish wrote: Don't mind that it's a invitational, as long as they invite players from multiple tournaments and some wild cards. Good think that it's a crowd so the feeling isn't robbed.
Any news on the steaming for this event? Free SQ, pay for HQ? FPS 25,30,60?
Sweet. I also like some of these really sweet invitational. 16 players is just about the perfect number, and it often yields really great games and good plans, whereas the players can sometimes get tired at the huge open bracket style. And I think that putting out the results that parting and stephano have, they shouldn't need to qualify for every event through online qualifiers etc. We know they're good and fun to watch already .
This is really awesome and all, but they really need to have more open qualifiers for events like these. imo there are players that deserve a chance to compete at the highest level, but they get over looked because all these events just want to invite people that will help bring in viewers... Sure there are open qualifiers for some of the tournaments, but just think of the player pool they have to go through to get there, and then theres only 1 or 2 spots. The game is too ez, so a possible superstar could easily be upset and not qualify. Events like this are great, but they need to give other players the proper opportunity to qualify for these events.. my 2 cents
woo! the red bull lan was really enjoyable, and I feel like we haven't seen mr. Sean Plott for some time (god, if his name was Jean Plot...), so this will be exciting!
Won't be surprised if Idra and Scarlett are next on the list. If that's the case, then it won't be good for foreign esport at all. There are so many no namers on NA and EU waiting and hoping to make it big but they don't have a qualifier like code A qualifier to go to. NA an EU tournaments are turning into casters + personality tournaments. Last MLG had 8 players and 9 casters.
Another invite tourney for the same group of players....disappointed tournaments keep going this route. I don't know how e-sports is going to keep "getting bigger" when essentally the same 10-30 people are auto-invited to tourneys without having to "earn it."
On April 25 2012 03:02 RageBot wrote: Why no qualifiers?
E-sports is currently about marketing yourself as a player/tournament more than it is actually getting in new blood and having people actually qualify for things. It's short sighted, but tournaments want immediate views. It is a bit frustrating for the 100's of players that would want to attempt to qualify for these things and then it's like, "oh here they go again, handing out invites not allowing anyone new to even have a chance to break in." Yeah...
I really missed husky and day9 and somehow im missing a "can the favorite foreigner beat the destro-koreans" tournament in my life. So this looks good. Now we just need polt so he can face stephano, and probably mkp so we dont think parting is op in pvt
On April 25 2012 04:37 avilo wrote: Another invite tourney for the same group of players....disappointed tournaments keep going this route. I don't know how e-sports is going to keep "getting bigger" when essentally the same 10-30 people are auto-invited to tourneys without having to "earn it."
On April 25 2012 03:02 RageBot wrote: Why no qualifiers?
E-sports is currently about marketing yourself as a player/tournament more than it is actually getting in new blood and having people actually qualify for things. It's short sighted, but tournaments want immediate views. It is a bit frustrating for the 100's of players that would want to attempt to qualify for these things and then it's like, "oh here they go again, handing out invites not allowing anyone new to even have a chance to break in." Yeah...
There are plenty of other open tournaments to make a name for yourself.
On April 25 2012 04:37 avilo wrote: Another invite tourney for the same group of players....disappointed tournaments keep going this route. I don't know how e-sports is going to keep "getting bigger" when essentally the same 10-30 people are auto-invited to tourneys without having to "earn it."
On April 25 2012 03:02 RageBot wrote: Why no qualifiers?
E-sports is currently about marketing yourself as a player/tournament more than it is actually getting in new blood and having people actually qualify for things. It's short sighted, but tournaments want immediate views. It is a bit frustrating for the 100's of players that would want to attempt to qualify for these things and then it's like, "oh here they go again, handing out invites not allowing anyone new to even have a chance to break in." Yeah...
ipl and mlg have open brackets. iem events all have qualifiers. most big online tournaments have at least a few qualifier spots. just because you dont qualify doesnt mean there arent qualifiers.
On April 25 2012 04:37 avilo wrote: Another invite tourney for the same group of players....disappointed tournaments keep going this route. I don't know how e-sports is going to keep "getting bigger" when essentally the same 10-30 people are auto-invited to tourneys without having to "earn it."
On April 25 2012 03:02 RageBot wrote: Why no qualifiers?
E-sports is currently about marketing yourself as a player/tournament more than it is actually getting in new blood and having people actually qualify for things. It's short sighted, but tournaments want immediate views. It is a bit frustrating for the 100's of players that would want to attempt to qualify for these things and then it's like, "oh here they go again, handing out invites not allowing anyone new to even have a chance to break in." Yeah...
Gather up 41k + expenses and do it your way.
These players have earned their way. It's not a popularity contest, but if advertisers are concerned, players that bring in more viewers are a big plus.
The 100's of players already have many tournaments with open invites to choose from.
It's their tournament. If they want to pick the players, they can. If you don't enjoy that, don't watch. The rest of us will enjoy a most likely competitive tournament with great casters and production value, and our half-full glasses.
Hmm, 16 players. Really depends on the rest of the invites if I'm going to watch this, as I really don't like any of the casters they invited (Wheat is okay, rest meh). I just hope they invite some interesting players and not the same guys all over again we saw so many times this year already.
On April 25 2012 05:15 discomatt wrote: These players have earned their way. It's not a popularity contest, but if advertisers are concerned, players that bring in more viewers are a big plus.
I think no one is saying if they invite the usual names that they dont deserve it, i think it just a matter of we see them too often if they do.
On April 25 2012 04:40 Big J wrote: Hey guys from Red Bull, could you plz broadcast this event, or at least parts of it on your (Austrian) TV channel? :-)
Sup with this Austrian Red Bull TV channel? Is it just a normal channel that Redbull happens to own or do they, like, have Redbull content and stuff? Weird. Help me !
On April 25 2012 04:49 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Hope all the gsl champs get an invite :o
there's 7 kickass spots right there (Fruity not included ofc ;-; )
rest I'd expect to be those who attended the lan before and other popular players, especially foreign.
Depends on a few things like MVP's wrist status and if Red Bull is paying for the player's flights. If not, then I can't see Jjakji going since HoSeo has never sent a player to an international tournament by themselves, I believe. I would expect MMA, Polt, MC, etc. and the usual Koreans who have teams that will send them to foreign events.
I don't like invitationals but I hope it turns out to be a good event anyway. GL Stephano and Naniwa. Because, who are we kidding, they WILL invite Naniwa.
On April 25 2012 04:37 avilo wrote: Another invite tourney for the same group of players....disappointed tournaments keep going this route. I don't know how e-sports is going to keep "getting bigger" when essentally the same 10-30 people are auto-invited to tourneys without having to "earn it."
On April 25 2012 03:02 RageBot wrote: Why no qualifiers?
E-sports is currently about marketing yourself as a player/tournament more than it is actually getting in new blood and having people actually qualify for things. It's short sighted, but tournaments want immediate views. It is a bit frustrating for the 100's of players that would want to attempt to qualify for these things and then it's like, "oh here they go again, handing out invites not allowing anyone new to even have a chance to break in." Yeah...
Don't worry dude, you might get an invite. You never know, Red Bull might enjoy 1/1/1 every game vs P.
On topic, there are plenty of great open bracket tournaments out there. MLG, IPL, IEM. I enjoy invitiationals, and its good to see Red Bull supporting this.
Probably going to be a really awesome event if it already has stephano and parting in it. What I'm most excited about is that Red Bull is actually "going for it" as the OP says. Red Bull is a BIG name to have supporting Esports. We're talking about the same people who sponsor the X games and shit.
On April 25 2012 04:37 avilo wrote: Another invite tourney for the same group of players....disappointed tournaments keep going this route. I don't know how e-sports is going to keep "getting bigger" when essentally the same 10-30 people are auto-invited to tourneys without having to "earn it."
On April 25 2012 03:02 RageBot wrote: Why no qualifiers?
E-sports is currently about marketing yourself as a player/tournament more than it is actually getting in new blood and having people actually qualify for things. It's short sighted, but tournaments want immediate views. It is a bit frustrating for the 100's of players that would want to attempt to qualify for these things and then it's like, "oh here they go again, handing out invites not allowing anyone new to even have a chance to break in." Yeah...
ipl and mlg have open brackets. iem events all have qualifiers. most big online tournaments have at least a few qualifier spots. just because you dont qualify doesnt mean there arent qualifiers.
Remember Dreamhack Valencia was also a Invitational and it was one of the best events last year. I think Invitationals are great if they pick the right players. If they don't pick like MLG does, it will be an awesome event.
Having qualifiers and open brackets, as nice as they are for up-and-coming players, is an arduous and lengthy process for organizations to implement all the time. Red Bull as a contributor is still relatively new, so they will get acclimatized with their own method for now, and who knows, perhaps they will expand things in the future.
I have no problem at all with this being an invitational... I know they have had the training lans before, but this is the first real tournament that they are hosting; if doing a 16 man invitational helps them to mitigate costs and test numbers, layouts, etc for any future productions, even if the rest end up being invitationals, though I would prefer online qualifiers at least, then awesome. I am stoked that another company like Red Bull is investing in esports so all I can say is thanks and good luck. I'll be watching!!
I hope they really get the best players. I don't want to watch foreigners getting dominated. I'd like to see some Thorzain, Stephano, NaNiwa, Ret, maybe HuK. No other foreigners really stand out as top players in the world. $41,000 is a lot of money. There should be a lot of good competition. Amongst the Korean pool I'd especially like to see MC, MKP, MVP, DRG, Taeja, Hero, SuperNova, Nestea, Oz, and perhaps Maru or another up and coming player.
I don't care how the event is run, who is in it, or how it is executed; I just really hope Red Bull fills their seats Unlike how the full sail event went
On April 25 2012 03:16 vileIllusion wrote: Going to be interesting to see Husky at a live event finally, I always thought he was good since the last mlg he casted
Hope you get an invite, I think you're performance at IPL showed you deserve it!
Im glad they got Husky. I missed him at the last few MLG Events. He is definately the best co-caster for Day[9]. Cant wait to here about the other Invites.
On April 25 2012 02:54 Bunraku wrote: Invitationals sucks.
Great first post! Suspect you will last long here...
The man has a point however. I believe invitationals only stagnates the scene
I think they are fine in moderation. Plus, this is Red Bull's first actual event, most organizations first events are usually invitational. IPL1, NASL Season 1, Lone Star Clash, etc. I think it is a good format to test the waters when an organization is trying to break into the scene.
I hope that the invites actually are the 16 best players that can attend, and they don't succumb to the urge to invite a fan favorite who doesn't match up with the quality of the players invited thus far. On the positive side, great first invites, very nice prize pool, this should be good. I may have to go out and buy some red bull next time i need to pull a long night.
On April 25 2012 02:54 Bunraku wrote: Invitationals sucks.
Great first post! Suspect you will last long here...
The man has a point however. I believe invitationals only stagnates the scene
I think they are fine in moderation. Plus, this is Red Bull's first actual event, most organizations first events are usually invitational. IPL1, NASL Season 1, Lone Star Clash, etc. I think it is a good format to test the waters when an organization is trying to break into the scene.
Yeah I believe for a new competitor to enter the stage, invitationals is the best way to go. However if you look at what invitationals do for the scene in general, I believe they can be very detrimental to the development of pro sc2.
I've never been a fan of the actual Red Bull drink, but I have to say that it's becoming difficult not to like Red Bull as a brand after all the great ESPORTS events they've been putting on.
On April 25 2012 04:37 avilo wrote: Another invite tourney for the same group of players....disappointed tournaments keep going this route. I don't know how e-sports is going to keep "getting bigger" when essentally the same 10-30 people are auto-invited to tourneys without having to "earn it."
On April 25 2012 03:02 RageBot wrote: Why no qualifiers?
E-sports is currently about marketing yourself as a player/tournament more than it is actually getting in new blood and having people actually qualify for things. It's short sighted, but tournaments want immediate views. It is a bit frustrating for the 100's of players that would want to attempt to qualify for these things and then it's like, "oh here they go again, handing out invites not allowing anyone new to even have a chance to break in." Yeah...
Gather up 41k + expenses and do it your way.
These players have earned their way. It's not a popularity contest, but if advertisers are concerned, players that bring in more viewers are a big plus.
The 100's of players already have many tournaments with open invites to choose from.
It's their tournament. If they want to pick the players, they can. If you don't enjoy that, don't watch. The rest of us will enjoy a most likely competitive tournament with great casters and production value, and our half-full glasses.
If players are up to snuff they will "easily" qualify for the event, the fact is tournament organizers do not want to take the chance that some "no names" come up and defeat their viewer-drawing players. It's somewhat understandable money-wise, because you need views/revenue, but in the sense of expanding the scene-wise...? It's not at all good. It's been going on since the beta.
Nice tournament... But there are just too many! Especially invitationals. I really consider stopping to watch SC2 events until HomeStory Cup V, just to be excited about the game again.
On April 25 2012 04:37 avilo wrote: Another invite tourney for the same group of players....disappointed tournaments keep going this route. I don't know how e-sports is going to keep "getting bigger" when essentally the same 10-30 people are auto-invited to tourneys without having to "earn it."
On April 25 2012 03:02 RageBot wrote: Why no qualifiers?
E-sports is currently about marketing yourself as a player/tournament more than it is actually getting in new blood and having people actually qualify for things. It's short sighted, but tournaments want immediate views. It is a bit frustrating for the 100's of players that would want to attempt to qualify for these things and then it's like, "oh here they go again, handing out invites not allowing anyone new to even have a chance to break in." Yeah...
ipl and mlg have open brackets. iem events all have qualifiers. most big online tournaments have at least a few qualifier spots. just because you dont qualify doesnt mean there arent qualifiers.
I'm glad you took the time to respond to my post idra. I wasn't referring to myself, there's lots of other players as good as myself and better that would love the opportunity to break into these things.
It seems you felt the need to reply to me because of some insecurity that I was referring to you as one of the "unworthy" players that is always invited to these things. It may be somewhat of a legitimate fear for you though to not be handed out invites, because you would probably get knocked out in an open qualifer nowadays.
On the invitational thing -- doesn't really bother me. Though I would prefer a couple of spots up for grabs to anyone who can qualifier, through a Playhem or whatever.
This event sounds great and I know will watch but like others said I really wish it wasn't invitational only. Hopefully they pick some new up and coming talent too. I love the usual crew(Stephano,MC,MMA,DRG, etc...) but it is exciting following new players breaking onto the scene. Parting is a great choice as he is a talented new player still looking to prove himself with some tourney accomplishments. It would be nice to seem some foreigners but as others have said unless they are the absolute best they will likely be stomped.
On April 25 2012 06:25 ninjamyst wrote: if they want alot of viewers, they need to invite MC, Idra, MKP, HerO, Naniwa, Nony, Thorzain, Grubby, TLO, Huk, MMA, and DRG.
Drop IdrA and Nony from that list and you'd have a sick line up.
Cool. I've liked their previous events and it seems players participating also find these events rather nice! I hope they will give the chance to a number of up and coming players, eg. player such as Fuzzy, Scarlett, etc
However I'll also join the chorus of whiners. 1. Have 4 / 16 spots be given through qualifiers. Invite-only tournaments are kindda hard to get hyped about (often a result of whine 2a) 2. Please dont ... a... invite popular but 'bad' players (no names mentioned). b... invite the same lineup we see reaching top 16 of the most recent tournaments (Eg. MKP is at risk of over-exposure, with him participating in practically all large NA events these pasts months. Let MLG display him and find another stallion). I can see these players at MLG and IPL, events like this one should take care to display some up and coming talent. 3. I also dislike Rob Simpson's casting, even though I realize he's a good caster. My opinion might be a result of only hearing him cast alongside JP ( --> neither of whom can analyse pro-level strategies besides the most common go-to builds, resulting in somewhat superficial casting. Perhaps he'll do well when matched with day 9).
Anyway to not end the post in a negative tone, the LAN locations looks awesome as hell and I'll most certainly look forward to this event.
On April 25 2012 04:37 avilo wrote: Another invite tourney for the same group of players....disappointed tournaments keep going this route. I don't know how e-sports is going to keep "getting bigger" when essentally the same 10-30 people are auto-invited to tourneys without having to "earn it."
On April 25 2012 03:02 RageBot wrote: Why no qualifiers?
E-sports is currently about marketing yourself as a player/tournament more than it is actually getting in new blood and having people actually qualify for things. It's short sighted, but tournaments want immediate views. It is a bit frustrating for the 100's of players that would want to attempt to qualify for these things and then it's like, "oh here they go again, handing out invites not allowing anyone new to even have a chance to break in." Yeah...
ipl and mlg have open brackets. iem events all have qualifiers. most big online tournaments have at least a few qualifier spots. just because you dont qualify doesnt mean there arent qualifiers.
I'm glad you took the time to respond to my post idra. I wasn't referring to myself, there's lots of other players as good as myself and better that would love the opportunity to break into these things.
It seems you felt the need to reply to me because of some insecurity that I was referring to you as one of the "unworthy" players that is always invited to these things. It may be somewhat of a legitimate fear for you though to not be handed out invites, because you would probably get knocked out in an open qualifer nowadays.
Ooooh. Good come back. *brb, getting popcorn*
Personally I would have gone with: just because you got invited, doesn't mean you deserve it!
On April 25 2012 06:00 Kaesebrot wrote: Remember Dreamhack Valencia was also a Invitational and it was one of the best events last year. I think Invitationals are great if they pick the right players. If they don't pick like MLG does, it will be an awesome event.
Invitationals are great for viewers, not so great for semi-pros who want in on the tournament.
On April 25 2012 06:25 ninjamyst wrote: if they want alot of viewers, they need to invite MC, Idra, MKP, HerO, Naniwa, Nony, Thorzain, Grubby, TLO, Huk, MMA, and DRG.
Drop IdrA and Nony from that list and you'd have a sick line up.
By what standards is dropping IdrA and leaving Grubby and TLO a sick line up choice?
On April 25 2012 06:00 Kaesebrot wrote: Remember Dreamhack Valencia was also a Invitational and it was one of the best events last year. I think Invitationals are great if they pick the right players. If they don't pick like MLG does, it will be an awesome event.
Invitationals are great for viewers, not so great for semi-pros who want in on the tournament.
Generally you are correct but it can be bad for the viewers that are fans of specific players.
On April 25 2012 02:44 GoSuChicken wrote: Yep, Red Bull is going for it Gonna be a 16-man invitational called "Battlegrounds" with a total prizepool of 41k$ to be held on 26th-27th May in Austin City.
Thanks for breaking the news on TL! Can't wait for what is shaping up to be an awesome event. ACL is a great venue and because of the TV show they should be an optimal setup for a online broadcast.
Minor Correction for correction's sake. There is no "Austin City" there is a physical place(music venue) called "Austin City Limits Live" and there is a city called Austin, Texas. I don't know why that is bothering me. 8)
On April 25 2012 07:19 drumsetjunky wrote: Minor Correction for correction's sake. There is no "Austin City" there is a physical place(music venue) called "Austin City Limits Live" and there is a city called Austin, Texas. I don't know why that is bothering me. 8)
I'm no native english speaker, but is "austin city" perhaps just an expression for Austin, inner city or center part of the town? (Like London city?)
btw: I hope they invite Scarlet! Want to see if she can bring some more upsets...
I think this very well could be the greatest foreign tournament ever - so far. The casters, the organization behind it, the prizepool and the players which they seem to invite so far are just the best of the best in the world.
really awesome to see Red Bull coming into the scene in a big way. Companies like Monster and Red Bull being in esports has huge implications. They keep a lot of X-Games athletes able to compete.
On April 25 2012 06:25 ninjamyst wrote: if they want alot of viewers, they need to invite MC, Idra, MKP, HerO, Naniwa, Nony, Thorzain, Grubby, TLO, Huk, MMA, and DRG.
Drop IdrA and Nony from that list and you'd have a sick line up.
By what standards is dropping IdrA and leaving Grubby and TLO a sick line up choice?
would be great if they ran open tournaments for the spots in this lan. Don't see the harm in it, honestly would be more exicited to see new faces then stephano and whatever korean invites there are beat up on the name player invites again.
On April 25 2012 07:56 phanto wrote: I have a hard time being excited for an invitational. If the invites are crazy good then of course I'll be excited. They rarely are though.
the first two announced are parting and stephano. i think they will be crazy good.
On April 25 2012 06:25 ninjamyst wrote: if they want alot of viewers, they need to invite MC, Idra, MKP, HerO, Naniwa, Nony, Thorzain, Grubby, TLO, Huk, MMA, and DRG.
Drop IdrA and Nony from that list and you'd have a sick line up.
By what standards is dropping IdrA and leaving Grubby and TLO a sick line up choice?
Exactly what I was thinking.
To be fair grubby is better then idra and nony but yeah is it a odd choice to leave them in.
On April 25 2012 06:25 ninjamyst wrote: if they want alot of viewers, they need to invite MC, Idra, MKP, HerO, Naniwa, Nony, Thorzain, Grubby, TLO, Huk, MMA, and DRG.
Drop IdrA and Nony from that list and you'd have a sick line up.
By what standards is dropping IdrA and leaving Grubby and TLO a sick line up choice?
IdrA has had an awful year so far while Grubby and TLO have been improving all year
On April 25 2012 04:37 avilo wrote: Another invite tourney for the same group of players....disappointed tournaments keep going this route. I don't know how e-sports is going to keep "getting bigger" when essentally the same 10-30 people are auto-invited to tourneys without having to "earn it."
On April 25 2012 03:02 RageBot wrote: Why no qualifiers?
E-sports is currently about marketing yourself as a player/tournament more than it is actually getting in new blood and having people actually qualify for things. It's short sighted, but tournaments want immediate views. It is a bit frustrating for the 100's of players that would want to attempt to qualify for these things and then it's like, "oh here they go again, handing out invites not allowing anyone new to even have a chance to break in." Yeah...
ipl and mlg have open brackets. iem events all have qualifiers. most big online tournaments have at least a few qualifier spots. just because you dont qualify doesnt mean there arent qualifiers.
I'm glad you took the time to respond to my post idra. I wasn't referring to myself, there's lots of other players as good as myself and better that would love the opportunity to break into these things.
It seems you felt the need to reply to me because of some insecurity that I was referring to you as one of the "unworthy" players that is always invited to these things. It may be somewhat of a legitimate fear for you though to not be handed out invites, because you would probably get knocked out in an open qualifer nowadays.
Can't say I'm too happy about the casters choice. Dont enjoy the casting done by Day9 nor DjWheat (not anymore anyway) altough I guess I'll concede that they cater (as in cattle) to more viewers. Prolly would'nt get to watch it anyway, since D3 will be out by then ^_^
On April 25 2012 06:25 ninjamyst wrote: if they want alot of viewers, they need to invite MC, Idra, MKP, HerO, Naniwa, Nony, Thorzain, Grubby, TLO, Huk, MMA, and DRG.
Drop IdrA and Nony from that list and you'd have a sick line up.
By what standards is dropping IdrA and leaving Grubby and TLO a sick line up choice?
IdrA has had an awful year so far while Grubby and TLO have been improving all year
the list is based on ability to draw in viewers, not on skillz....hence the lack of Koreans....
I'm excited, but I hope we don't get players invited purely due to popularity or success that is now basically irrelevant, it would be nice to see Illusion get an invite, he's probably got the most Korean kill points of any foreigner in the last month, apart from Naniwa and maybe ThorZaIN.
On April 25 2012 04:37 avilo wrote: Another invite tourney for the same group of players....disappointed tournaments keep going this route. I don't know how e-sports is going to keep "getting bigger" when essentally the same 10-30 people are auto-invited to tourneys without having to "earn it."
On April 25 2012 03:02 RageBot wrote: Why no qualifiers?
E-sports is currently about marketing yourself as a player/tournament more than it is actually getting in new blood and having people actually qualify for things. It's short sighted, but tournaments want immediate views. It is a bit frustrating for the 100's of players that would want to attempt to qualify for these things and then it's like, "oh here they go again, handing out invites not allowing anyone new to even have a chance to break in." Yeah...
ipl and mlg have open brackets. iem events all have qualifiers. most big online tournaments have at least a few qualifier spots. just because you dont qualify doesnt mean there arent qualifiers.
I'm glad you took the time to respond to my post idra. I wasn't referring to myself, there's lots of other players as good as myself and better that would love the opportunity to break into these things.
It seems you felt the need to reply to me because of some insecurity that I was referring to you as one of the "unworthy" players that is always invited to these things. It may be somewhat of a legitimate fear for you though to not be handed out invites, because you would probably get knocked out in an open qualifer nowadays.
If this was left to the fans voting, you would easily be included in this tournament.
On April 25 2012 09:32 justsayinbro wrote: 41k on sc2 only w free stream? Take notes MLG. Also wondering if eg-monster players would get invites due to conflict
mlg doesn't have to take note of anything they're two completely different operations, and surprise surprise, redbull has a lot of money of their own, MLG works off of others
Why is everyone bitching about it being an invite? This is their first big tournament. I know they have done the boot camps in the past, but a tournament is another beast. To start off as an invite only tournament is a good idea. Just like how IPL started as and invite and moved onward. And honestly, there are not THAT many invite only tournaments these days.
I am really excited for this, I think Red Bull is a great company that has the ability to reach a whole new viewer base.
On April 25 2012 09:32 justsayinbro wrote: 41k on sc2 only w free stream? Take notes MLG. Also wondering if eg-monster players would get invites due to conflict
mlg doesn't have to take note of anything they're two completely different operations, and surprise surprise, redbull has a lot of money of their own, MLG works off of others
MLG needs to take notes on how to generate more viewers in an effort to expand the scene. Tourneys MLG has been running recently is definitely a step away from the direction. No shit Einstein I have never seen MLG energy drinks either. I was talking about tourneys they run obviously.
Why is everyone bitching about it being an invite? This is their first big tournament. I know they have done the boot camps in the past, but a tournament is another beast. To start off as an invite only tournament is a good idea. Just like how IPL started as and invite and moved onward. And honestly, there are not THAT many invite only tournaments these days.
Agreed. Seems that eventhough a majority of the major tournaments have qualifiers, people start to bitch when ONE tournament is invitational.
I'm probably the only one here who doesn't enjoy Husky's casting. He fits more with a horse racing event with his 9000 words/min. He always tries to be fast and has really high voice.
On April 25 2012 02:49 teddyoojo wrote: oh yeah finally someone got husky+day9 instead of artosis+tasteless im so happy
Husky + Day9 is how I got into e-sports. I got an email from nvida about their pro/am tournament with Husky and Day9 casting, and I've been hooked ever since.
People rag on husky because hes not the most technical caster, but that duo is the right mix of technical and awesome.
Hurray; For their first big one i can see why its invite only. Hopefully if its successful they'll go to more open style so we can encourage new blood into the scene. So super stoked about Day9 and Husky. Hope they cast together!
I REALLY hope red bull advertises this correctly because there are so many tournaments now adays and so much competition. If Red Bull markets this correctly they should be successful.
And if I make the event or not Red Bull will be my energy drink of choice from now on : ) (Thanks for supporting eSports if anyone from Red Bull is reading this)
On April 25 2012 02:49 teddyoojo wrote: oh yeah finally someone got husky+day9 instead of artosis+tasteless im so happy
Husky + Day9 is how I got into e-sports. I got an email from nvida about their pro/am tournament with Husky and Day9 casting, and I've been hooked ever since.
People rag on husky because hes not the most technical caster, but that duo is the right mix of technical and awesome.
K[9] is the best! Husky is how I got into competitive starcraft and Day9 is how I found passion for starcraft.
On April 25 2012 02:49 teddyoojo wrote: oh yeah finally someone got husky+day9 instead of artosis+tasteless im so happy
Husky + Day9 is how I got into e-sports. I got an email from nvida about their pro/am tournament with Husky and Day9 casting, and I've been hooked ever since.
People rag on husky because hes not the most technical caster, but that duo is the right mix of technical and awesome.
It's ok, he is probably more technical than Tasteless
Should be a lot of fun! I agree with a few of the complaints about Invitationals, particularly with foreign invites as some of those players that get invites to every event just aren't the best foreigners anymore, but for this tournament I guess it's the best way to start.
On April 25 2012 13:44 skrzmark wrote: My favorite energy drink, but why is such a small damn can so expensive?! when other brands are bigger for lesser price. l0l
More water and sugar? I've tried monster and the other jumbo cans. 2 cans of monster < 1 smallest can of red bull. I know. I've done lots of overnighters in college.
On April 25 2012 03:34 Dingodile wrote: I assume, EG Players may not come because Monster?! I like Monster Energy and Red Bull drinks
Hahahaha, never thought about that. That would sure be a slap in the face, but I don't think it'll happen. I'm sure they'll invite a couple EG players.
I was excited to see one of their next few events will be in seattle! Not enough starcraft out in the Northwest these days.
On April 25 2012 03:34 Dingodile wrote: I assume, EG Players may not come because Monster?! I like Monster Energy and Red Bull drinks
Hahahaha, never thought about that. That would sure be a slap in the face, but I don't think it'll happen. I'm sure they'll invite a couple EG players.
I was excited to see one of their next few events will be in seattle! Not enough starcraft out in the Northwest these days.
You guys realize that Puma and JYP were at the last Red Bull Lan right?
Wow that venue is absolutely SICK. With redbull getting more involved with SC2... Blizzard getting more involved.... the CBSi partnership, and the BW scene in Korea switching to SC2 .... I cant help but to feel like SC2 is really blowing up
On April 25 2012 03:34 Dingodile wrote: I assume, EG Players may not come because Monster?! I like Monster Energy and Red Bull drinks
Hahahaha, never thought about that. That would sure be a slap in the face, but I don't think it'll happen. I'm sure they'll invite a couple EG players.
I was excited to see one of their next few events will be in seattle! Not enough starcraft out in the Northwest these days.
You guys realize that Puma and JYP were at the last Red Bull Lan right?
Haha, and they joked about it as the "monster energy lan" too
Plenty of other tournaments to qualify for. MLG, IPL, IEM, Dreamhack. Having a few tournaments such as invitationals doesn't really bother me. I think it's a cool thing. If you want to make name a progamer then perform well at the other tourneys.
I'm addicted to freaking Red Bull, and now they start going into eSports aswell. It's going to be a hard time staying off the Red Bull.
This is big BIG news, Red Bull is a massive company and it is possible this could grow much much bigger if they consider their first "real" tournament a success.
Personally I also really love this mixture of open bracket tournaments and invite tournaments as it gives us a large variety of tournaments to watch. Dreamhack was a treat last weekend but I have to say the first day was a little painful to watch, gave me new appreciation for why MLG likes their poll play. Watching Sase and Nani just mess around trying to find the most BM way to win(or lose) quickly lost its appeal to me.
Would I be wrong to think that Red Bull is the first mainstream sponsor, with otherwise nothing to do with gaming, to host their own tournament? In any case the fact that they are getting more involved is awesome and hopefully other mainstream sponsors will take notice if they are successful.
Red Bull organized = bound to be a success. Red Bull set the standards for X-games and other non-mainstream sports.
Casters = happy with all of them, curious to see Day9 back in action.
I guess I am not a 'pure' SC2-skill fan because if RO8 is 8 koreans, I normally loose all interest in a tournament except for the occasional Liquipedia lookup. I like underdog stories and I want foreigners in there to the end. MLG Spring Arena - even though the lineup was exceptional players - was completely uninteresting to me. I hope they limit the korean invites to 4-6 players so a few more foreigners gets a chance to prove themselves.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
I just don't want the invitationals to always invite only very predictable people. I'm not a fan of IdrA yet when his stream has been on recently, I've watched it, frankly, in the hope that we could see him "regain his [Tasteless] passion". If anything though, he should have to go through qualifiers more often to do this; doing so might help him to be more genuinely confident rather than all this proud, hiding-behind-his-words BS. It's a shame that really, he values intelligence but would probably not personally like that many of his so-called fans because of the image he makes for himself. I doubt said fans would help his actual progress as a player. I agree with Avilo about the possible insecurity too, yet, having said that, if Greg gets through lots of qualifiers without invites in future, good for him, I'll be very pleased for him. My apologies if that was too much of a tangent.
I'd like to see invitationals mix players that might be (highly skilled) crowd favourites who are often invited, such as Stephano, White Ra and TLO (not that ANY player should be invited to EVERY invitational) with more (still high-up) players who are less often invited or are simply lower profile just based on size of fan-base or the amount of hype players get. Having said that, one example of a player I'd love to see more of, especially at invitationals, is MorroW, but then Day9], Husky Rob, Red Bull and whoever else may have been involved in the recommendations seem to have good choice, so MorroW actually was at the last event. ^_^ I would say that the Red Bull invitationals aim to pick players that put in a good deal of effort but also show a generally positive approach to learning and make for a great display of skill and learning from a good mannered bunch of the community, which is not a bad choice for marketing either. They want to create a good image and make ESPORTS as clearly professional as possible. It's not BAD that players like Dragon are invited now and then, but just because they are fan favourites does not mean it is a good idea of they become 'regulars'.
I quite like the idea though of small tournaments (but obviously larger than this in total number of players) having a set invited number of players for the pools with an additional small pool for an "invited open bracket" which would be good for showing off some players that are not so likely to be invited with just the small, set 16 invited. Another alternative that just puts more variety in is to just always go for Invitationals with 32 rather than 16 though. :Þ Perhaps it's all about focussing on the smaller number of players though, to make it more personal and give more exposure/the spotlight to a smaller group. Husky was great at the last MLG I remember seeing him at, congratulations to him for getting to the stage where most will give him credit and for sticking through all the criticism. Rob Simpson is great too, I don't know what people have against him unless they don't like seeing enthusiasm and smiles from someone without as much knowledge and insight as Sean and there seems to be a clear partnership of some form between Red Bull and these people, so no one should be surprised to see them together again. They did announce Red Bull would be hosting numerous events throughout the year. Did people seriously think it would be without the same hosts? I look forward to this and can only hope it'll be easy to keep track of the dates, stream location and other obvious details. *Putting it on my calendar*
To SilentSC2, I'd love to see LosirA, seeing as he's been looking great on his stream recently (IMHO), but the obvious choice would be DRG. I came back here though to ask if anyone else had noticed/experienced this when they first went to the first page of this thread: http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n160/Endelite/TLPDJokeTrollGlitchBeingmodified-1.png
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
I would love to see these players as well, but I honestly hope they add in a few more americans. I don't want to see yet another american tournament which lacks american players.
More games between Europe and America would benefit esports.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1
He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. y.
I'll be sure to pick up some Red Bull on my way home as part of a larger scheme that hinges on the concept of "Positive Reinforcement." The idea is to get more companies to sponsor tournaments. Eventually, even Amish people will be hosting tournaments. There is no stopping this.
Judging by the production quality of the Red Bull Lans, I think this tournament is going to set a new standard for quality tournaments. The whole invitational thing is kind of a bummer however.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
So... how would you rank the European protosses as of now?
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
If this is Red Bull's first off line competitive event then making it invitation-only cuts down on the # of things that can go wrong. Open events are very difficult to run. If a couple of people who are "famous", but playing poorly get invited then they'll just get trashed in the first round. Unless of course Red Bull manages to invite 16 "famous guys" all playing like garbage.
On April 25 2012 07:12 halfies wrote: rob simpson. cant he just die quietly.
that is a bit harsh... he is pretty good and somewhat entertaining. he may not know as much about competitive SC2 as Artosis ... but at least he knows this. i think the other commentators cut him a bit of extra slack and are a bit deferent with him because he works for Blizzard
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
What? Grubby is far better than he have been ever. I don't think you watch his games and only watch his tournament placements. If you actually watch those players he beats, and how he beats them, I think you would have a different opinion. I can't seem to find any protoss player not living in Korea which is levels above him. He is one of the best.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
wat. explain.
Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
wat. explain.
Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something.
haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
wat. explain.
Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something.
haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me.
As you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert.
Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
wat. explain.
Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something.
haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me.
There's exceptions of course but it's generally accepted that mental quickness and stamina decline with age. You sound like one of those fundamentalist idiots saying evolution sounds like crap.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
wat. explain.
Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something.
haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me.
As you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert.
Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above.
Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage.
Sorry but without a source of that data, it's completely useless. It's doesn't even say what the test was. At least i cant find it there and seeing the data they probably tested reflexes which doesn't have a much impact on a game like starcraft.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
wat. explain.
Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something.
haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me.
As you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert.
Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above.
Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage.
Sorry but without a source of that data, it's completely useless. It's doesn't even say what the test was. At least i cant find it there and seeing the data they probably tested reflexes which doesn't have a much impact on a game like starcraft.
Huh? Reflexes are reflexes. And I put a link on top of the image of where I got it from.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
wat. explain.
Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something.
haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me.
As you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert.
Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
wat. explain.
Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something.
haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me.
As you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert.
Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above.
Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage.
Sorry but without a source of that data, it's completely useless. It's doesn't even say what the test was. At least i cant find it there and seeing the data they probably tested reflexes which doesn't have a much impact on a game like starcraft.
Huh? Reflexes are reflexes. And I put a link on top of the image of where I got it from.
Reflexes are practically a null point when it comes to RTS IMO.
How often does that 0.1 second come into play? And how much of an impact does that make in the overall result of the game?
Even if its true and legit, and all things could be derived from that, that would put the best gamers between 13 and 18...which we know is not the case. Reaction times are a single, meaningless, statistic, in a complex game. An older game will have access to more experience in with more games (or even more experience with the same game) and that alone could give them the edge. What about measures of cognition. While pure reaction time to a physical stimulus might be best int he realm of the teenager..What of ideas, thoughts, reacting to more complex situations? What of discipline most of us would agree comes with age?
That graph is of course assuming that everyone is simply a function of the average, which we know is not the case. While we do know and see that people's athleticism declines with age, we can find people who are above the average or expected age range in a competition, not only be competitive, but win.
Boiling everyone down to their age, and not only that, but boiling them down to how their age affects somethign as simple as reaction time...It's silly and it's a bit insulting.
There are olympians that win well into their 30s or even 40s, competing with younger individuals who, statistically, if we go by averages, they have no business competing with..But they do. Maybe its will, maybe its pure genetics, maybe its experience and maybe its luck, but you can't count someone out of anything because of age.
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
wat. explain.
Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something.
haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me.
As you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert.
Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above.
Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage.
Sorry but without a source of that data, it's completely useless. It's doesn't even say what the test was. At least i cant find it there and seeing the data they probably tested reflexes which doesn't have a much impact on a game like starcraft.
Huh? Reflexes are reflexes. And I put a link on top of the image of where I got it from.
Reflexes are practically a null point when it comes to RTS IMO.
How often does that 0.1 second come into play? And how much of an impact does that make in the overall result of the game?
My thought as well. I know there was a lot of talk about reflexes when I played Counter-Strike 7 years ago, and it made sence since you had to have a fast trigger finger when someone came around the corner.
Fast reflexed probably only come into play when doing things like dodging storms, and 0.1 seconds hardly makes a difference in damage received.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
wat. explain.
Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something.
haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me.
As you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert.
Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above.
Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage.
Sorry but without a source of that data, it's completely useless. It's doesn't even say what the test was. At least i cant find it there and seeing the data they probably tested reflexes which doesn't have a much impact on a game like starcraft.
Doesn't even matter if it's correct, the difference is insanely insignifcant and easily made up for by the experience factor. You'd have to get way higher up in age before it was an actual factor.
The reason older players are at a disadvantage is motivation and burn out.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
wat. explain.
Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something.
haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me.
As you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert.
Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above.
Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage.
That chart is very misleading. You should at the very least have numbers shown stepwise until the age of 30 (35?). Doing this is especially important whent he article writes: "Simple reaction time improves from childhood until the late 20s. After the late 20s, reaction times increase, but very slowly, until people reach their early fifties. As people reach their late sixties and seventies, reaction times increase markedly." From that excerpt you should note: 1. Improval until the late 20s. 2. Very slow decrease from 30-50 years.
Furthermore, the validity of these numbers might be put into question when applied to gamers. Gamers actively train their reflexes while gaming, something that could alter their reflex-speed development.
edit: Forgot why I actually was gonna post, but fortunately Jinro more or less made the same point while I was bashing that study. There could be a ton of reason why older gamers generally tend to lose the edge. Hitting 30 years its time to consider starting a family or more actively taking care of the one you allready got going.
JinrO, while I'm going to just go ahead and assume you're more knowledgeable than me on this subject, I wouldn't even say that burn out is as big as factor as changing life goals and requirements.
From ages 12-18, most gamers have *literally nothing else to worry about*. No bills, expenses, gf, wife, kids, education, nothing. The schooling in those years can be entirely "mailed-in", and you don't have a job or life concerns to worry about.
After that age, you need to seriously consider if gaming as a career is a better move than going to college or getting a normal job. Furthermore, you no longer have a built-in support system like you did as a child. If you want human compassion and company, you need to find someone who is ok with you gaming 10 hours a day, and willing to support you emotionally or even financially during these times.
On April 25 2012 19:33 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: To SilentSC2, I'd love to see LosirA, seeing as he's been looking great on his stream recently (IMHO), but the obvious choice would be DRG. I came back here though to ask if anyone else had noticed/experienced this when they first went to the first page of this thread: http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n160/Endelite/TLPDJokeTrollGlitchBeingmodified-1.png
I would also love to see LosirA, he's been one of my favorite Zergs for a while but sadly fell(same thing happened to San). But ya I think the obvious choice is DRG.
Reflexes are important but the huge spread in APM among top players illustrates that it's just one factor among many.
NesTea is 29 and just finished 3rd at IPL. Dealing with jet-lag definitely gets worth with age, that's probably a lot more important. But good planning and preparation can help with that.
Probably the biggest factor is that the older you get, the more of your focus you need to spend on things other than the game. Throw a wife and kids in there, and yeah, good luck to you.
On April 26 2012 04:16 Crownlol wrote: JinrO, while I'm going to just go ahead and assume you're more knowledgeable than me on this subject, I wouldn't even say that burn out is as big as factor as changing life goals and requirements.
From ages 12-18, most gamers have *literally nothing else to worry about*. No bills, expenses, gf, wife, kids, education, nothing. The schooling in those years can be entirely "mailed-in", and you don't have a job or life concerns to worry about.
After that age, you need to seriously consider if gaming as a career is a better move than going to college or getting a normal job. Furthermore, you no longer have a built-in support system like you did as a child. If you want human compassion and company, you need to find someone who is ok with you gaming 10 hours a day, and willing to support you emotionally or even financially during these times.
What you are describing could also be called burned out, or losing the passion or whatever. It is pretty much the same thing.
On April 26 2012 04:16 Crownlol wrote: JinrO, while I'm going to just go ahead and assume you're more knowledgeable than me on this subject, I wouldn't even say that burn out is as big as factor as changing life goals and requirements.
From ages 12-18, most gamers have *literally nothing else to worry about*. No bills, expenses, gf, wife, kids, education, nothing. The schooling in those years can be entirely "mailed-in", and you don't have a job or life concerns to worry about.
After that age, you need to seriously consider if gaming as a career is a better move than going to college or getting a normal job. Furthermore, you no longer have a built-in support system like you did as a child. If you want human compassion and company, you need to find someone who is ok with you gaming 10 hours a day, and willing to support you emotionally or even financially during these times.
What you are describing could also be called burned out, or losing the passion or whatever. It is pretty much the same thing.
Well, I assumed that "burn-out" deals with just losing passion. What I suggested was "fragmentation", not that they aren't passionate anymore, just that they have many other responsibilities.
How did this age/reaction discussion happen, and what does it have to do with the event?
While we're talking about off-topic things, let me say that I think the term "offline" is inappropriate to use unless it really means offline. Starcraft 2 is always played online. The event is local instead of remote. I think even LAN is a better description than offline, even if it isn't that accurate.
The reason this whole age and reactions thing got started was because someone asked,
>why do people think old-school players support players such as Nony, Incontrol, Gruby, etc like they are gonna win any major tournaments? >Someone said that Grubby was getting better and better and was gonna show great tournament results in the future >Someone else said that it wasn't likely. >The discussion goes to whether him getting older has anything to do with gaming. >people start asking for evidence that this phenomenon is the case.
I personally see it differently. I think that if you are to claim a particular player who have not won any major tournaments will win one soon, you're the one who needs to substantiate your claim. And no, watching Grubby play on ladder isn't the only indicator of how he does in tournaments. Ladder play at the highest levels tests how well you deal with all-ins and timing pushes, not macro strats against pros who know how to macro. Consider Grubby playing a PvZ against Stephano or DRG. I doubt any Korean Protosses can have a positive record against those 2, much less Grubby.
I think Grubby is still one of the best players in the world and has a great stream, but to say he's gonna start winning tournaments is more of a hope than a reality. He can win those local LANs and online-only small events that exclude most pros (even in WC3 most of his wins came from ZOTAC cup, which was online-only and excluded most Koreans and all Chinese players.)
While I know that some people don't like Husky, I really love the Husky + Day[9] combination. Husky is great at the fast, exciting moments while Day[9] provides that in-depth analysis.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
wat. explain.
Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something.
haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me.
As you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert.
Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above.
Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage.
Sorry but without a source of that data, it's completely useless. It's doesn't even say what the test was. At least i cant find it there and seeing the data they probably tested reflexes which doesn't have a much impact on a game like starcraft.
Doesn't even matter if it's correct, the difference is insanely insignifcant and easily made up for by the experience factor. You'd have to get way higher up in age before it was an actual factor.
The reason older players are at a disadvantage is motivation and burn out.
Well i think your right there and imo it's not only the experience factor but also the fact that the human brain isn't fully developed yet when your 16 to 20 years old. You can have the fastest reaction time known to man but if you dont make the right decision your uber fast reaction time is pretty useless and it's a known fact that people in the age 16 to 20 often dont make the right decisions and most times they are reckless decisions.
But i think the main reason is why we seen in the past that most players had their peak at their younger years is because the younger players after them just had a higher basic skill level when it comes to gaming, new upcoming players had already a advantage so to speak because they started gaming at a younger age. Kids these days grow up with gaming/computers, if i see these kids it's mind blowing how fast they pickup things. It has become natural to them while when i was a kid, i was laying down in the bushes outside with friends pretending we were shooting at imaginable enemies while a wooden stick were our weapons. And the games we could play, if someone was lucky to have a computer at home, didn't allow us to raise our skill level cause the AI was only as good as it was (rubbish most times)
And thats why i think the super talents from upcoming generations (who grow up with computers and gaming) will often stay longer at the top if they aren't mentally burned out or saturated after a couple of years cause the advantage of growing up with gaming on computers will be gone soon (if not already).
Why does the forum title say the event is 'offline'?
I thought that meant it wouldn't be streamed over the internet, or at least not for free. Please edumecate dumb people like me as to why the event is 'offline'....
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
wat. explain.
Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something.
haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me.
As you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert.
Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above.
On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote: Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar...
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2)
yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore.
+1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons. I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately.
wat. explain.
Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something.
haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me.
As you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert.
Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above.
Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage.
Especially if you are ambidextrous! Once you're 20 I think it is not safe to cross the street anymore..
LOL I'm glad someone else noticed that!
On a more on topic note. Hopefully I can get press access for this event! (wish me luck!)
Something with those stats seem off to me. Especially seeing as how most professional athletes hit there prime in there late 20's-early 30's. Boxers/mma fighters especially.
On April 27 2012 00:45 Arkless wrote: Can someone please explain to me the whole "Offline" part of this lan?
They have sc2 lan hack program? DId blizz give them a lan license of some sort? I is confused
offline initially referred to games played over LANs, but since SC2 doesnt allow LANs, what it means in this context is that all the players will be in the same place, and that you will be able to watch it at that place in person, aswell as online
This looks awesome. Really excited that RedBull is getting into e-sports! They have had some really good teams and sponsorships lately. Look at how successful their Formula 1 Racing team has been!
what exactly is the "offline" tournament in the title supposed to mean? i was already hoping for a tourney thats not dependent on b.net when i read that, but i guess it refers to something else?
I'm really not sure why Rob Simpson keeps getting casting gigs... maybe Blizzard is paying the tournaments to bring him in so they can convince us they care about e-sports and not just money?
EPT
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