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On April 12 2012 13:30 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 13:25 T0fuuu wrote:
Mass recall would be awesome in long games. It wouldnt be broken either cos overseer can block it and ghosts can emp.
Tac missiles could be interesting. But considering HSM AND NUKE are already in wol i think they are better off fixing one of them. Maybe give hsm more range, less damage, slightly less speed too? or not fixing it at all cos things like siege tanks are meant to be difficult to break once they are established.
Im a bit sad that protoss is getting another airbased siege unit though. They already have the collossus. Colossus can't hit air, I think It's being designed as a counter to broodlord/infestor since the mothership is being removed.
Yeah but air vs air is really boring when units just do damage. Think of corruptor vs toss air or vikings vs anyting. Its the storms,fungals,vortexes and pdds that make the game interesting. having yet another carrier but it shoots lasers instead of interceptors is like another vr before the damage and range nerf.
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hopefully they remove or move the oracle from the game or at least out of the stargate and to something more appropriate.
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On April 12 2012 12:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 12:49 YyapSsap wrote:On April 12 2012 12:46 pdd wrote:On April 12 2012 11:32 Euronyme wrote:
I feel the problem with the protoss arsenal is that we don't have anything that can kill workers, and they they're too gimicky. A lot of the builds are flimsy and have to be done without scouting etc etc. Go watch Parting vs Fin G1 on Daybreak yesterday. + Show Spoiler +He kills 50+ workers with just chargelots, even when he is at a disadvantage. Ah and imagine having the nexus recall here. Not only do they kill all those workers but most of the army can come home safe.. Well seeing as how Terrans have medivacs for that and Zerg have overlords and nyduses to transport their units home, it would be nice to have a way to safely retreat more than 4 Protoss units doing harrassment. We can't mass warp prisms, as we need the robotics facilities to build colossi and immortals, and it's quite silly to wait until mothership to have the ability to drop harrass. Everything we phase in through a warp prism is trapped there.
People on double Robo and sufficient critical mass of Immortals and/or Colossus have begun producing mass Warp Prism in the later part of the game. There are plenty of harassment options in the early-midgame for Protoss.
Talking about high level play, too.
People get away with it on one Robo as well, during the tech switch to High Templar/Twilight Council upgrades.
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I am having huge doubts about HotS and possibly even LotV when it comes, the gameplay is changing so widely and I am afraid that Blizzard has not thought it through. Atleast we are getting beta so maybe the possible imbalances unbalances will be fixed, hopefully. Has blizzard announced any updates regarding UI change? Statistics? Anything else than race information :<?
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No news about the Carrier/Mothership? T_T
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On April 12 2012 13:36 Tump wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 12:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 12 2012 12:49 YyapSsap wrote:On April 12 2012 12:46 pdd wrote:On April 12 2012 11:32 Euronyme wrote:
I feel the problem with the protoss arsenal is that we don't have anything that can kill workers, and they they're too gimicky. A lot of the builds are flimsy and have to be done without scouting etc etc. Go watch Parting vs Fin G1 on Daybreak yesterday. + Show Spoiler +He kills 50+ workers with just chargelots, even when he is at a disadvantage. Ah and imagine having the nexus recall here. Not only do they kill all those workers but most of the army can come home safe.. Well seeing as how Terrans have medivacs for that and Zerg have overlords and nyduses to transport their units home, it would be nice to have a way to safely retreat more than 4 Protoss units doing harrassment. We can't mass warp prisms, as we need the robotics facilities to build colossi and immortals, and it's quite silly to wait until mothership to have the ability to drop harrass. Everything we phase in through a warp prism is trapped there. There are plenty of harassment options in the early-midgame for Protoss.
What are those?
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I hope they remove the thor, its too big and clunky.
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So overall, I like the ideas coming out of this. The replicant was just a bit too out there, complex for the game I think. The Shredder, I overall liked the idea of, but I do agree that it needed to be done differently. I like "zoning" units and whatnot. I am also liking the ideas coming out about the Nydus. I had never thought about added features to the wurm before, so this could be very interesting.
Keep it up guys!
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On April 12 2012 13:40 Resistentialism wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 13:36 Tump wrote:On April 12 2012 12:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 12 2012 12:49 YyapSsap wrote:On April 12 2012 12:46 pdd wrote:On April 12 2012 11:32 Euronyme wrote:
I feel the problem with the protoss arsenal is that we don't have anything that can kill workers, and they they're too gimicky. A lot of the builds are flimsy and have to be done without scouting etc etc. Go watch Parting vs Fin G1 on Daybreak yesterday. + Show Spoiler +He kills 50+ workers with just chargelots, even when he is at a disadvantage. Ah and imagine having the nexus recall here. Not only do they kill all those workers but most of the army can come home safe.. Well seeing as how Terrans have medivacs for that and Zerg have overlords and nyduses to transport their units home, it would be nice to have a way to safely retreat more than 4 Protoss units doing harrassment. We can't mass warp prisms, as we need the robotics facilities to build colossi and immortals, and it's quite silly to wait until mothership to have the ability to drop harrass. Everything we phase in through a warp prism is trapped there. There are plenty of harassment options in the early-midgame for Protoss. What are those?
Stargate openings, Warp Prism harass, Blink Stalkers? Granted, you have to do damage, but that's usually the case with any early/midgame aggression.
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It's funny how so many people interpret this update as the end all of HotS. Blizzard goes ahead and removes the trash and tweaks some things and all of the sudden people are up in arms about how stupid they are for having new ideas and testing mechanics which may or may not work. It's an ironic attitude considering they just cut the terribly designed replicant and shredder. I don't understand how people worry so much about things they honestly don't have any real information about...a tidbit of news from Blizzard and the SC2 apocalypse begins all over again.
Have some patience and trust that they'll at least get most of it right in the long run after they have feedback. It might still not be your cup of tea but if Blizzard's done anything well over the last few months, it's listen to players for feedback. Some companies are so dogmatic that they wouldn't consider changes like adding tournament maps to the map pool or removing entire units that had been designed and overhauling others. They are even trying to make changes in a large patch that might have social features that people have been begging for (who cares if it's exactly perfect...it has to be better than before). If the expansion sucks, the game will tank and they lose money. If you're a cynic by nature and see Blizzard as another greedy company, so be it...you know that they have to protect their product so the green continues to flow into their pockets.
Give it a chance to be fleshed out. They are setting anything into stone yet and I feel like the changes they've made so far between Blizzcon and now have been improvements. More changes are coming...don't say you aren't buying a game on the basis of report that is previewing it's development before a beta has even begun.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Overall I think Blizz is moving in the right direction here. Hopefully they keep moving in that direction so that all races (in particular protoss ... ) become more interesting.
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On April 12 2012 01:35 Kimaker wrote:
ugh...I wish Blizzard would start with the lore, and build units from that first instead of going right to balance.
Also, a "long range missile launcher" already exists, it's called the Nuke and it can already be used to break siege lines.
YES. Also, Should Dustin...
Poll: Should Dustin stop recycling Red Alert units into Starcraft universe?Yes, make it stop, please for the love of cats! (45) 79% No, because RA units are cool. *hipster pose* (12) 21% 57 total votes Your vote: Should Dustin stop recycling Red Alert units into Starcraft universe? (Vote): Yes, make it stop, please for the love of cats!
(Vote): No, because RA units are cool. *hipster pose*
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On April 12 2012 13:58 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 01:35 Kimaker wrote:
ugh...I wish Blizzard would start with the lore, and build units from that first instead of going right to balance.
Also, a "long range missile launcher" already exists, it's called the Nuke and it can already be used to break siege lines.
YES. Also, Should Dustin... Poll: Should Dustin stop recycling Red Alert units into Starcraft universe?Yes, make it stop, please for the love of cats! (45) 79% No, because RA units are cool. *hipster pose* (12) 21% 57 total votes Your vote: Should Dustin stop recycling Red Alert units into Starcraft universe? (Vote): Yes, make it stop, please for the love of cats!
(Vote): No, because RA units are cool. *hipster pose*
Everyone offering alternatives just wants to recycle BW units into HotS. Have we reached a point in RTS where every possible balanced unit has been made?
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On April 12 2012 13:56 Plexa wrote:
Overall I think Blizz is moving in the right direction here. Hopefully they keep moving in that direction so that all races (in particular protoss ... ) become more interesting.
Well, at least it seems like they're moving away from catastrophically bad changes - it's a bit early to call whether they're actually moving in a good direction, although I prefer to remain cautiously optimistic.
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Seems really good o_O , needs more balancing and new units ... I mean Tempest instead of Replicant.. AND BRING BACK MOTHERSHIP AND CARRIERS ... so hard to win late game zerg with no MS + toilet... or carriers 
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On April 12 2012 13:48 Scufo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 13:40 Resistentialism wrote:On April 12 2012 13:36 Tump wrote:On April 12 2012 12:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 12 2012 12:49 YyapSsap wrote:On April 12 2012 12:46 pdd wrote:On April 12 2012 11:32 Euronyme wrote:
I feel the problem with the protoss arsenal is that we don't have anything that can kill workers, and they they're too gimicky. A lot of the builds are flimsy and have to be done without scouting etc etc. Go watch Parting vs Fin G1 on Daybreak yesterday. + Show Spoiler +He kills 50+ workers with just chargelots, even when he is at a disadvantage. Ah and imagine having the nexus recall here. Not only do they kill all those workers but most of the army can come home safe.. Well seeing as how Terrans have medivacs for that and Zerg have overlords and nyduses to transport their units home, it would be nice to have a way to safely retreat more than 4 Protoss units doing harrassment. We can't mass warp prisms, as we need the robotics facilities to build colossi and immortals, and it's quite silly to wait until mothership to have the ability to drop harrass. Everything we phase in through a warp prism is trapped there. There are plenty of harassment options in the early-midgame for Protoss. What are those? Stargate openings, Warp Prism harass, Blink Stalkers? Granted, you have to do damage, but that's usually the case with any early/midgame aggression.
None of those are the kind of things let excellent players turn extra APM into cost-effecient damage, and without the sacrifice of too much tech production. That's what were looking for here: where a relatively small gas and mineral cost, building included - plus a shit load of expert control - sum together into solid economic harass. That said it shouldn't be a no-brainer that you absolutely have to have to do, just a solid option. They probably need to have it as part of a framework of a lot of other buffs and nerfs.
Maybe I'd count PvZ stargate, but the damage there is as much about the response you force with it. That sounds something like Corsair PvZ in brood war, but somehow it just doesn't work out the same. Probably something to do with the way hydras work in SC2.
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The Viper is shaping up to be more and more like the Defiler. Zerg changes look ok, but I really can't see the swarm host being effective at all compared to its older brother, the lurker.
Protoss is still worthy of the facepalm, all the changes are only going to enhance the death ball with more long range no skill units. I can't believe people didn't make certain units because the replicant clone was too powerful, the dark archon can mind-control many units and you don't lose any supply from it, mind-control is now only used when smurfing. Sersiously who is testing this game? The oracle effective as a harass unit? really? Has to be seen to be believed I guess.
Terran loses its one and only chance to stand toe-to-toe with Protoss in the late game, with the removal of the spider-mine shredder, Terran mech can't get its much needed 3rd or 4th base or even be solid at all apart from being a gimmick that might work unexpectedly once or twice.
Overall this is looking to be a really gimmicky game with lots of whizbang units and spells with no real solid framework or more solid unit compositions or execution based gameplay.
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The Oracle is starting to sound just like what the Void Ray currently is except needing a fleet beacon, so why not just buff the VR then instead Blizzard?
edit: I meant the Tempest.
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On April 12 2012 14:18 Amlitzer wrote:
The Oracle is starting to sound just like what the Void Ray currently is except needing a fleet beacon, so why not just buff the VR then instead Blizzard?
I think you mean the tempest, but yeah I noticed that too  Its funny how they are quick to remove old units for being too similar in role (baneling/lurker) but then they create another unit and they immediately go blind, like they don't immediately see how closely it resembles an already existing unit that they created in WoL.
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EPT
